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court70
Mar 24th, 2009, 06:26 PM
For the third consecutive year, the BNP Paribas Open set an attendance record, attracting 332,498 fans to the Indian Wells Tennis Garden, topping 2008's total of 331,269. Part of the record was due in part to the tournament adding an evening session for the first Thursday, which drew 13,222 fans.

"All in all, Charlie and I are absolutely ecstatic at what's happened to this tournament. The last two years have seen it," said Raymond Moore, who along with Charlie Pasarell are majority owners of the tennis tournament. "Seems the Californian public have finally embraced this event and actually realized the magnitude of it, and maybe that's the reason why we've had the attendance figures."


http://www.mydesert.com/article/20090324/EVENTS10/903240340/-1/newsfront

Lucemferre
Mar 24th, 2009, 06:29 PM
Yeah it happens every year :haha::haha:

Just Do It
Mar 24th, 2009, 06:59 PM
That stadium, and generally the whole complex is huge, so, why not ? Williams sisters not playing doesn't have to mean people wont be interested in tennis :p

Kworb
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:01 PM
Most came for the ATP matches

joão.
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:05 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dodoboy.
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:09 PM
:lol:

Vlover
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I guess they can see "dead" people in the stands and you don't have that gift or they appear when you are not looking.:haha:

tonybotz
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:10 PM
ugh, it seems like EVERY tournament sets attendance records. it's such bullshit.

spartanfan
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:20 PM
[quote=court70;15255274]For the third consecutive year, the BNP Paribas Open set an attendance record, attracting 332,498 fans to the Indian Wells Tennis Garden, topping 2008's total of 331,269. Part of the record was due in part to the tournament adding an evening session for the first Thursday, which drew 13,222 fans.

"All in all, Charlie and I are absolutely ecstatic at what's happened to this tournament. The last two years have seen it," said Raymond Moore, who along with Charlie Pasarell are majority owners of the tennis tournament. "Seems the Californian public have finally embraced this event and actually realized the magnitude of it, and maybe that's the reason why we've had the attendance figures."

Sounds somewhat bogus to me. Why did it take the people in California so long to embrace the tournament in the first place? Curious. But if you were one of the owners what would you say? Attendance was down 15% over last year. Naw, they're just trying to put their own positive spin on a bad situation. From the matches I watched, there were A LOT of empty seats in the later rounds at both the mens' and womens' matches.

Andrew..
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:22 PM
People don't understand where those numbers come from, so they don't believe them. Almost all of the seats in the lower part of the stadium are sold to corporations as part of weeklong packages. Those are huge numbers.

MrSerenaWilliams
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:25 PM
I'm sure those numbers include Day Passes for people who just want to walk the grounds too :shrug:

LDVTennis
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:35 PM
People don't understand where those numbers come from, so they don't believe them. Almost all of the seats in the lower part of the stadium are sold to corporations as part of weeklong packages. Those are huge numbers.

Well, how could you expect some of the people around here to understand that? When I used to go to IW every year, something I've decided to do again beginning next year, I would purchase two front row box seats for the entire tournament. One of those seats sat empty for almost all day and evening matching after the first weekend, as my partner isn't much of a tennis fan. I'd go a few times during the week, staying only for the evening matches if it was some player who was worth the cold desert nights.

When people on here make a big deal about seats being empty, it's always a sure sign to me that they don't buy tickets to many tennis tournaments and therefore they don't know how the elite tennis fan makes use of his or her tickets. I wasn't the only one who didn't use my seats all the week. There were people in adjacent box seats that I never saw until the men's final. They had owned those seats for the entire tournament; they just never showed until the men's final.

AcesHigh
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Why do you care? Does it bother you if they set attendance records?

Inktrailer
Mar 24th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Doesn't sound unlikely to me; there would have been over 200 matches played between the WTA and ATP. Even if each one only had 500 people attending, that adds up to 100,000. Obviously a lot of matches would have had a much higher attendance figure than 500, so taking out people attending multiple matches, a figure of 332,000 isn't unbelievable.

miffedmax
Mar 24th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Accurate numbers are pretty much impossible to assess, so claiming your broke your attendance by a whopping 1,000 is pretty bogus, but the general number is probably in the ballpark, so to speak. Given the size of the venue and number of matches played, the 330,000+ number is probably reasonable.

TV never really tells the whole story, because you rarely get shots of the full stands for the simple reason that the action is on the court/field/pitch.

Aravanecaravan
Mar 24th, 2009, 08:07 PM
LOL--if you've been to one of these big-stadium events, you know that women's tennis attendance only adds about 3% to the men's. It's sad, really, but I've yet to see a women's match at Miami in a filled stadium.

-Sonic-
Mar 24th, 2009, 08:48 PM
If you want decent seats at eastbourne, you have to buy a weekly ticket. (Well, if you want my opinion of decent seats anyway).

court70
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:13 PM
Well, how could you expect some of the people around here to understand that? When I used to go to IW every year, something I've decided to do again beginning next year, I would purchase two front row box seats for the entire tournament. One of those seats sat empty for almost all day and evening matching after the first weekend, as my partner isn't much of a tennis fan. I'd go a few times during the week, staying only for the evening matches if it was some player who was worth the cold desert nights.

When people on here make a big deal about seats being empty, it's always a sure sign to me that they don't buy tickets to many tennis tournaments and therefore they don't know how the elite tennis fan makes use of his or her tickets. I wasn't the only one who didn't use my seats all the week. There were people in adjacent box seats that I never saw until the men's final. They had owned those seats for the entire tournament; they just never showed until the men's final.

BUT IT SAID RECORD ATTENDANCE....meaning people showed up for the matches and they did not because most of the seats were empty.

vogus
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:20 PM
When people on here make a big deal about seats being empty, it's always a sure sign to me that they don't buy tickets to many tennis tournaments and therefore they don't know how the elite tennis fan makes use of his or her tickets.

I hope i don't sound like a snob, but most people who post here are not "elite" tennis fans. And the converse is also true - most "elite" tennis fans (the people who pay big money for the best seats at the top events) do not post here. It would be great if there were a global message board that brought "elite" fans together, but wtaworld and MTF are the best we've got.

LDVTennis
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:22 PM
BUT IT SAID RECORD ATTENDANCE....meaning people showed up for the matches and they did not because most of the seats were empty.

I thought this went without saying. Obviously, we need to get this basic. IW measures attendance by tickets sold. So does every other major sports event I know.

TheBoiledEgg
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Miami is empty for WTA matches as well
without ATP there wouldnt even be IW and Miami.

LDVTennis
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:31 PM
I hope i don't sound like a snob, but most people who post here are not "elite" tennis fans. And the converse is also true - most "elite" tennis fans (the people who pay big money for the best seats at the top events) do not post here. It would be great if there were a global message board that brought "elite" fans together, but wtaworld and MTF are the best we've got.

Try the board over at Tenniswarehouse.com. I'm not pitching them. I'm just saying that you'll find more "elite" tennis fans there. As with most things that are "elite," there are almost no flame wars, the population is smaller, and trolls disappear without notice.

I will warn you of two things: About the only female tennis player who gets any respect over there is Steffi Graf. There are even threads about the racquets she used over the years. Fascinating stuff, but really technical. It follows from this that you're going to get an earful about the current state of women's tennis if you're brave enough to ask. Oh, one more thing. Don't mention the Williams Sisters...

Rix643
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Miami is empty for WTA matches as well
without ATP there wouldnt even be IW and Miami.

And I'm afraid in the near future you'll be able to say: Without the ATP there wouldn't even be a WTA....

vogus
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:38 PM
Try the board over at Tenniswarehouse.com. I'm not pitching them. I'm just saying that you'll find more "elite" tennis fans there. As with most things that are "elite," there are almost no flame wars, the population is smaller, and trolls disappear without notice.

I will warn you of two things: About the only female tennis player who gets any respect over there is Steffi Graf. There are even threads about the racquets she used over the years. Fascinating stuff, but really technical. It follows from this that you're going to get an earful about the current state of women's tennis if you're brave enough to ask. Oh, one more thing. Don't mention the Williams Sisters...

Thanks for the tip. Of course "elite" tennis fans have long favored mens tennis over womens, why do you think that prize money at regular ATP tour events is on average more than double the money at WTA events? And whether fairly or unfairly, the Williams sisters are widely held in poor regard inside the men's tennis world.

court70
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the tip. Of course "elite" tennis fans have long favored mens tennis over womens, why do you think that prize money at regular ATP tour events is on average more than double the money at WTA events? And whether fairly or unfairly, the Williams sisters are widely held in poor regard inside the men's tennis world.

Where the hell did you get that statement from...

faboozadoo15
Mar 24th, 2009, 09:56 PM
The non-stop bashing of Indian Wells by fans of the Williams sisters is truly pathetic.
It's over, move on.
Time for the beloved Miami, where women's tennis is as popular as men's and where nothing ever seems to go wrong.


:tape:

2moretogo
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Makes sense since the place is so huge...I would hate to be in the upper tiers watching a match, barely being able to see the ball (center court)

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:09 PM
Thanks for the tip. Of course "elite" tennis fans have long favored mens tennis over womens, why do you think that prize money at regular ATP tour events is on average more than double the money at WTA events? And whether fairly or unfairly, the Williams sisters are widely held in poor regard inside the men's tennis world.

why is this?

LeonHart
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:15 PM
William fans think just because they're not in the tournament means they cannot set record attendance? :weirdo:

Olórin
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:30 PM
and trolls disappear without notice.


This explains it, you've been banned from there so are polluting us with your constant nonsense.

As someoneelse said, at Eastbourne, the stadium has always been packed to the brim when I've been there, regardless of the names in exhibition. Fans, casualfans, loacls, people simply wanting a day out will leave their homes, often pay to stay in a hotel, and spend thirty pounds on a ticket to see a women's tennis match. People need to get a grip and stop with the hyperbole.

Olórin
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the tip. Of course "elite" tennis fans have long favored mens tennis over womens, why do you think that prize money at regular ATP tour events is on average more than double the money at WTA events? And whether fairly or unfairly, the Williams sisters are widely held in poor regard inside the men's tennis world.

'Elite' tennis fans in the context LDTtennis introduced them are not true tennis fans. The people who can afford and access, reguarlarly, the best seats at various important events are often the worlds wealthy and famous or, more often, their relatives, seeking a civilised day out, where they don't even necessarily need to watch tennis.

The real tennis fans post on this board and others on the internet. Real tennis fans would rather spend hours searching for a live stream on the internet, ennabling themselves to watch tennis every week, rather than go to two or three tournaments a year.

Real tennis fans don't try to cling onto, and perpetuate the remaining shackles of elitism and upper-classism in the sport, the way that throw-backs like LDVtennis do.

Inktrailer
Mar 24th, 2009, 10:43 PM
'Elite' tennis fans in the context LDTtennis introduced them are not true tennis fans. The people who can afford and access, reguarlarly, the best seats at various important events are often the worlds wealthy and famous or, more often, their relatives, seeking a civilised day out, where they don't even necessarily need to watch tennis.

The real tennis fans post on this board and others on the internet. Real tennis fans would rather spend hours searching for a live stream on the internet, ennabling themselves to watch tennis every week, rather than go to two or three tournaments a year.

Real tennis fans don't try to cling onto, and perpetuate the remaining shackles of elitism and upper-classism in the sport, the way that throw-backs like LDVtennis do.

He/She makes a good point:yeah:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 24th, 2009, 11:02 PM
I believe the numbers, I was there and most people just buy general admission tickets to walk the grounds and check out the practice courts where you can get very close to the players. In fact general admission tickets for the day session the first Saturday was completely sold out.

Slammer7
Mar 24th, 2009, 11:59 PM
The night session matches were damned near empty. I watched Tsonga play in front of about 2000 people, and Nadal/Nalbandian played in front of less than 6000. It wasn't just the womens matches that were played in front of air and empty seats. This isn't about the WS, this is about the health and growth of the sport or more like the diminution of the sport. I was shocked and saddened to see the emptiness and lack of atmosphere to the stadium. You can't use the argument of people roaming with grounds passes for the night session as most of the nights there was not another match anywhere but center-court. There were overhead camera shots of the entire stadium and it was 80% and 90% empty most of the night matches, it was really sad.

LDVTennis
Mar 24th, 2009, 11:59 PM
The real tennis fans post on this board and others on the internet. Real tennis fans would rather spend hours searching for a live stream on the internet, ennabling themselves to watch tennis every week, rather than go to two or three tournaments a year.

Real tennis fans don't try to cling onto, and perpetuate the remaining shackles of elitism and upper-classism in the sport, the way that throw-backs like LDVtennis do.


Write this down. So, you won't forget it. Then, walk, run, drive or fly to your nearest sports stadium or venue. If you can make it out to Crandon Park, go there first.

When you get to the front of the line, tell the guy taking the tickets that you want to sit in a front row box seat or in one of those luxury suites you saw on TV or on live stream. When he asks for your ticket or pass, pull out the paper where you wrote this down and read it to him.

Let us know how far you get --- :D

Kenny
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Most came for the ATP matches
I know if I went to Indian Wells.. it would be strictly for Rafa and Roger matches.. well hell top 10 atp matches. lol

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:06 AM
The night session matches were damned near empty. I watched Tsonga play in front of about 2000 people, and Nadal/Nalbandian played in front of less than 6000. It wasn't just the womens matches that were played in front of air and empty seats. This isn't about the WS, this is about the health and growth of the sport or more like the diminution of the sport. I was shocked and saddened to see the emptiness and lack of atmosphere to the stadium. You can't use the argument of people roaming with grounds passes for the night session as most of the nights there was not another match anywhere but center-court. There were overhead camera shots of the entire stadium and it was 80% and 90% empty most of the night matches, it was really sad.

2000 people is good for a night match out there, especially one not involving Nadal or Federer. 6000 for Nadal at night is excellent. That's as big a crowd as Sampras and Agassi used to draw at night.

Slammer7
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:11 AM
2000 people is good for a night match out there, especially one not involving Nadal or Federer. 6000 for Nadal at night is excellent. That's as big a crowd as Sampras and Agassi used to draw at night.

I've watched IW for years and I have never seen that arena as empty as it was this year. That stadium has existed for 8 years and they have had better crowds than that for night matches. I still think one of the reasons Tsonga lost was because he had no crowd to feed off of and it was like a practice match that night. It was eerie to say the least, you could almost hear individual fans yelling and cheering.

Vlover
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:46 AM
I will warn you of two things: About the only female tennis player who gets any respect over there is Steffi Graf.
So that is your tennis heaven you were referencing in a previous thread. Why do you think I would be remotely interested in nostalgia from over a decade ago while exciting tennis is going on in the present.:confused: If you are a sample of what an "elite" tennis fan should be, then I'll gladly pass. I'm quite happy and content with the the regular Joes because you seem so miserable and bitter.:help:

Human Nature
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the tip. Of course "elite" tennis fans have long favored mens tennis over womens, why do you think that prize money at regular ATP tour events is on average more than double the money at WTA events? And whether fairly or unfairly, the Williams sisters are widely held in poor regard inside the men's tennis world.


Unfortunately , the race issue will never desapear completely in the tennis "elite" world ...we can nothing more just pray for them...:shrug:

Craig.
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:58 AM
Didn't Maria play her doubles match on Thursday evening?

Infiniti2001
Mar 25th, 2009, 01:06 AM
So that is your tennis heaven you were referencing in a previous thread. Why do you think I would be remotely interested in nostalgia from over a decade ago while exciting tennis is going on in the present.:confused: If you are a sample of what an "elite" tennis fan should be, then I'll gladly pass. I'm quite happy and content with the the regular Joes because you seem so miserable and bitter.:help:


:worship::worship: I'm still puzzled as to why he chooses to post here considering his stinking attitude :help:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:01 AM
LDV strikes again :rolls:

Direwolf
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:26 AM
2007 - 303,398
2008 - 331,269 (+27,871)
2009 - 332,498 (+1,229)

Well im guessing that Murray has more fans than Davydenko...
do they count passerbys aswell??

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:34 AM
2007 - 303,398
2008 - 331,269 (+27,871)
2009 - 332,498 (+1,229)

Well im guessing that Murray has more fans than Davydenko...
do they count passerbys aswell??

:lol:

Jeff
Mar 25th, 2009, 03:18 AM
The stadium might not have been full, but i was there, and the grounds were completely packed. While the stadium wasn't full, a lot of those empty seats were probably bought by people who were choosing to watch matches on the other courts (There are 7 other active courts throughout the fortnight). Lower-level empty seats, as stated already in this thread, are for the most part already bought out by corporations.

Close access to the players is my main purpose of attending this event. I had a general seat in the stadium, but rarely sat in there. The best atmosphere is on the other courts where the major fans are, in my opinion.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 11:16 AM
We're still living in a world where we divide people in "elite" and "non-elite"? Hmmm....and let me guess the elite of course would be the upper-class rich white folks, huh? Haven't we learned yet..it's those same elite thinking that invented "apartheid"!

Funny how LDV would identify himself with the elite..when the elite wouldn't even vote to pass a referendum so that he can get legally married. I guess there are something money CAN'T buy..

Inktrailer
Mar 25th, 2009, 11:32 AM
We're still living in a world where we divide people in "elite" and "non-elite"? Hmmm....and let me guess the elite of course would be the upper-class rich white folks, huh? Haven't we learned yet..it's those same elite thinking that invented "apartheid"!

Funny how LDV would identify himself with the elite..when the elite wouldn't even vote to pass a referendum so that he can get legally married. I guess there are something money CAN'T buy..

To be fair, why does 'elite tennis fan' have to imply that they're necessarily white? The 'elite' tennis fan in this case is the one who can afford to buy a box for a whole tournament, at the most prestigious tournaments. Why race has to come into that, I don't know:confused:

Inktrailer
Mar 25th, 2009, 12:14 PM
These real tennis fans do not contribute to the players' prize money. The elite ticket-holders do.

So do the rest of the cheap-seat ticket buyers who purchase tickets all year round, but of course a lot of this money is actually going to the tournament, to the venue hosting it.

But prize money comes from a number of sources including TV rights, advertisements and sponsorship and they're targeting the people who are sitting at home wanting to watch as much tennis as they can get on TV or online. If that target audience wasn't there, the money for TV and advertising wouldn't be as great.

Vlover
Mar 25th, 2009, 01:56 PM
:worship::worship: I'm still puzzled as to why he chooses to post here considering his stinking attitude :help:
You would think that the forum for the "elites" would be so exciting and entertaining that he wouldn't have time for us "regular" Joes.;)

Honestly though, unless you are psychotic it must become monotonous and tedious to watch and comment on the same videos for the past 10 years or more.:help: It pains many like him who didn't want the Sisters to last this long and continue to sustain the same level of interest and attention they still do.:D

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:16 PM
To be fair, why does 'elite tennis fan' have to imply that they're necessarily white? The 'elite' tennis fan in this case is the one who can afford to buy a box for a whole tournament, at the most prestigious tournaments. Why race has to come into that, I don't know:confused:

You really think LDV would be boasting about this, if the majority happened to be black?! Looking at the venue and the history, the only conclusion one could come to is that when ldv talks about elite, he's talking about white..

Inktrailer
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:29 PM
You really think LDV would be boasting about this, if the majority happened to be black?! Looking at the venue and the history, the only conclusion one could come to is that when ldv talks about elite, he's talking about white..

I've no idea, I know feck all about LDV:D If this is more to do with the people saying it then fair enough, there's obviously a back-story to it that I don't know and isn't strictly about who's eligible to be an 'elite' fan.

Dave.
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:33 PM
'Elite' tennis fans in the context LDTtennis introduced them are not true tennis fans. The people who can afford and access, reguarlarly, the best seats at various important events are often the worlds wealthy and famous or, more often, their relatives, seeking a civilised day out, where they don't even necessarily need to watch tennis.

The real tennis fans post on this board and others on the internet. Real tennis fans would rather spend hours searching for a live stream on the internet, ennabling themselves to watch tennis every week, rather than go to two or three tournaments a year.

Real tennis fans don't try to cling onto, and perpetuate the remaining shackles of elitism and upper-classism in the sport, the way that throw-backs like LDVtennis do.

:worship:

I can't believe people are even using the term "elite tennis fan" as if that's supposed to mean something. Your description of a real tennis fan is spot on. And I would consider the tennis fans you described (us on here :lol:) much better fans than the so called "elite" fans, whatever that's supposed to stand for.

I don't know why bandabou is (again) making this a black & white thing. I'm sure I've read one of LDVTennis' posts saying he is not white. :confused:

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 02:41 PM
:worship:

I can't believe people are even using the term "elite tennis fan" as if that's supposed to mean something. Your description of a real tennis fan is spot on. And I would consider the tennis fans you described (us on here :lol:) much better fans than the so called "elite" fans, whatever that's supposed to stand for.

I don't know why bandabou is (again) making this a black & white thing. I'm sure I've read one of LDVTennis' posts saying he is not white. :confused:

LDV might not be white but he for sure ain't black. You call me out..but what about talk about "elite"-fan..just because they can't buy a whole box?!

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 25th, 2009, 03:01 PM
oops

pov
Mar 25th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Accurate numbers are pretty much impossible to assess,
??? I think you're confusing ticketed events with free rallies and marches. At ticketed events accurate numbers are very easily obtained.

faboozadoo15
Mar 25th, 2009, 03:46 PM
??? I think your confusing ticketed events with free rallies and marches. At ticketed events accurate numbers are very easily obtained.

:haha:

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 03:53 PM
LDV might not be white but he for sure ain't black. You call me out..but what about talk about "elite"-fan..just because they can't buy a whole box?!

What does race have to do with being an "elite" tennis fan? At IW, I've seen and met "elite" tennis fans of all races.

Just because you can't afford to be one, doesn't mean there aren't other non-white people who can.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 04:03 PM
What does race have to do with being an "elite" tennis fan? At IW, I've seen and met "elite" tennis fans of all races.

Just because you can't afford to be one, doesn't mean there aren't other non-white people who can.

You tell me, LDV. You don't know nothing about any members of this board yet you walk around talking about 'elite' this, you can't afford that.

Maybe you've even met me, seated in the same box, etc...without knowing. why is it that you always have this thinking that you're superior to other people? Based on what, really?

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 04:04 PM
You really think LDV would be boasting about this, if the majority happened to be black?! Looking at the venue and the history, the only conclusion one could come to is that when ldv talks about elite, he's talking about white..

No, I am not. And, isn't it racist to assume that only black people would cheer for Venus and Serena or the converse that black people should cheer for Venus and Serena?

Here's a story that might interest you: At La Costa, the people who owned the box seats next to mine were a doctor and his wife. The doctor was white and the wife was black. I first met them during a match featuring Chanda and Venus.

The wife asked me who I liked in the match. I told her --- I liked Chanda, but that I thought Venus would win. Her response will surprise you. She told me that she disliked Venus and Serena because of their upbringing. When I asked her what she meant by "upbringing." She told me only that Chanda was a judge's daughter. Talk about elitism.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 04:16 PM
No, I am not. And, isn't it racist to assume that only black people would cheer for Venus and Serena or the converse that black people should cheer for Venus and Serena?

Here's a story that might interest you: At La Costa, the people who owned the box seats next to mine were a doctor and his wife. The doctor was white and the wife was black. I first met them during a match featuring Chanda and Venus.

The wife asked me who I liked in the match. I told her --- I liked Chanda, but that I thought Venus would win. Her response will surprise you. She told me that she disliked Venus and Serena because of their upbringing. When I asked her what she meant by "upbringing." She told me only that Chanda was a judge's daughter. Talk about elitism.

Racist..LDV using the word racist, sure sounds funny!

And the response of the black wife, is exactly why there's no hope for us black people. We aren't united and Caucasians have used this to their advantage for centuries.

It is when blacks try to hard to be liked by the white.... the black watch-men snitching on their fellow slaves whenever there would be a revolt..no wonder it took so long for us to get free.

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 04:19 PM
You tell me, LDV. You don't know nothing about any members of this board yet you walk around talking about 'elite' this, you can't afford that.

Maybe you've even met me, seated in the same box, etc...without knowing. why is it that you always have this thinking that you're superior to other people? Based on what, really?

I don't know what problems you have with that term. It qualifies a tennis fan as one who has the means to buy a season ticket package at major or tour events. You've made it into a race thing. What a surprise!

On this board, the only way of differentiating people should not be the color of their skin or even their preference for a certain tennis player. It should be the substance of their posts and the rationality of their language. When I make judgements about people on this board, that's my only criteria.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM
I don't know what problems you have with that term. It qualifies a tennis fan as one who has the means to buy a season ticket package at major or tour events. You've made it into a race thing. What a surprise!

On this board, the only way of differentiating people should not be the color of their skin or even their preference for a certain tennis player. It should be the substance of their posts and the rationality of their language. When I make judgements about people on this board, that's my only criteria.

But you have no way of knowing IF someone can afford it or not, so why bring it into the discussion?

And so it should be, LDV. At least be consistent.

Vlover
Mar 25th, 2009, 05:27 PM
On this board, the only way of differentiating people should not be the color of their skin or even their preference for a certain tennis player. It should be the substance of their posts and the rationality of their language. When I make judgements about people on this board, that's my only criteria.

It might not be the ONLY criteria you use to judge but it sure does seem like a MAJOR criteria for you and most of your "elite" tennis fans.:rolleyes: From my observations very few people on here disclosed their occupation and almost never their socio economic status. Therefore it is amazing that you can derive such information from their language.:help: Using your logic and definitions you don't impress me as an "elite".:lol:

Most of us get it that it is quite simply for you. Anyone who supports Venus and Serena are automatically not "elite" enough in your eyes.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 05:54 PM
It might not be the ONLY criteria you use to judge but it sure does seem like a MAJOR criteria for you and most of your "elite" tennis fans.:rolleyes: From my observations very few people on here disclosed their occupation and almost never their socio economic status. Therefore it is amazing that you can derive such information from their language.:help: Using your logic and definitions you don't impress me as an "elite".:lol:

Most of us get it that it is quite simply for you. Anyone who supports Venus and Serena are automatically not "elite" enough in your eyes.

I wonder tooo..

mboyle
Mar 25th, 2009, 05:56 PM
Sounds somewhat bogus to me. Why did it take the people in California so long to embrace the tournament in the first place? Curious. But if you were one of the owners what would you say? Attendance was down 15% over last year. Naw, they're just trying to put their own positive spin on a bad situation. From the matches I watched, there were A LOT of empty seats in the later rounds at both the mens' and womens' matches.

You are relying on anecdotal evidence. It takes a while to embrace any event because you need momentum. Things become more popular over time. Wicked makes more money per week now than it did when it first opened on Broadway, because more people have heard of it now.

Even if your anecdotal evidence is correct, you are not comparing that evidence to your memory of years previous, nor could you, unless you have a literally photographic memory. It is possible that there are lots of empty seats AND an attendance record at the same time.

It is not likely that the tournament would flat out lie. If overall attendance were down, they would likely harp on a one day attendance record, or tout the success of their new Thursday night session. There are journalists in the world who will call out businesses on lies, leading to public embarrassment and even worse business next year. With so much money at stake, I would be surprised if such a business venture as IW could be run by complete idiots, and it would take a complete idiot to lie about breaking an attendance record.

The other possibility, perhaps (I have not read the language closely so I could be wrong), is that the tournament sold more tickets than it ever had, but not everyone came. While I do not think this is as likely as the null hypothesis (that more actual people passed through the gates than ever before,) the tournament makes money whether or not the people show up. Of course, it makes more money if they show up through incidentals, but it makes money regardless.

mboyle
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:05 PM
I don't know what problems you have with that term. It qualifies a tennis fan as one who has the means to buy a season ticket package at major or tour events. You've made it into a race thing. What a surprise!

On this board, the only way of differentiating people should not be the color of their skin or even their preference for a certain tennis player. It should be the substance of their posts and the rationality of their language. When I make judgements about people on this board, that's my only criteria.

How does spelling factor into your equation? Perhaps I could harp on your parallelism as well. I believe you meant to say, "The only way of differentiating people should be not the color of their skin, but rather the substance of their posts."

If I were to be particularly ornery I might even quibble with your usage of "people" and ask which people you wished to reference--the Cherokee perhaps, or the French? Of course, on most days I have accepted that US Americans have all but obliterated the original meaning of the word and have instead hijacked it to mean what correctly should be termed "persons".

Whether or not you are a Christian, the Christian Bible contains a lot of wisdom. I recommend you take a look at Matthew 7:1-2, "Judge not lest you be judged yourselves, for in the way you judge, you will be judged as well."

mboyle
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I hope i don't sound like a snob, but most people who post here are not "elite" tennis fans. And the converse is also true - most "elite" tennis fans (the people who pay big money for the best seats at the top events) do not post here. It would be great if there were a global message board that brought "elite" fans together, but wtaworld and MTF are the best we've got.

Really, I thought the world got over the whole aristocracy thing back in the French Revolution. Guess not...

Andrew..
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:25 PM
The other possibility, perhaps (I have not read the language closely so I could be wrong), is that the tournament sold more tickets than it ever had, but not everyone came. While I do not think this is as likely as the null hypothesis (that more actual people passed through the gates than ever before,) the tournament makes money whether or not the people show up. Of course, it makes more money if they show up through incidentals, but it makes money regardless.
Actually, I think that's likely what happened. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, most of those boxes are sold as weeklong packages, and many times, especially early in the week, those people don't show up. This is especially true for corporations, who give away their tickets to clients, senior partners, etc. If they're given to you and you don't really have any skin in the game, you're not as likely to show up if you aren't that interested.

But this is true for all tennis events. This isn't something unique to IW.

mboyle
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Actually, I think that's likely what happened. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, most of those boxes are sold as weeklong packages, and many times, especially early in the week, those people don't show up. This is especially true for corporations, who give away their tickets to clients, senior partners, etc. If they're given to you and you don't really have any skin in the game, you're not as likely to show up if you aren't that interested.

But this is true for all tennis events. This isn't something unique to IW.

Right! Thanks for the heads up. I was just wondering whether the tournament was counting tickets presented at the turnstiles or tickets sold. Regardless, thank you for being so civil! If only we could all treat each other with civility, rather than lording the pieces of social prestige to which we cling at night, attempting to hide from our insecurities, over the people we must convince ourselves we are better than. :) (Yes, I do realize I ended a sentence with a conjunction. Shoot me.)

Rix643
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:41 PM
I don't know what problems you have with that term. It qualifies a tennis fan as one who has the means to buy a season ticket package at major or tour events. You've made it into a race thing. What a surprise!

On this board, the only way of differentiating people should not be the color of their skin or even their preference for a certain tennis player. It should be the substance of their posts and the rationality of their language. When I make judgements about people on this board, that's my only criteria.


You shouldn't judge people at all.

bobbynorwich
Mar 25th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Remember that attendance figures at every tennis tourney are based on tickets sold, and the good seats are sold only if you buy all sessions, not individually. The slight growth from 2008 to 2009 was due only to adding an additional night. Still, Indian Wells has the highest attendance of any tournament except the Grand Slams. And Center Stadium Court --- 1 of 20 courts ---- has a capacity for 16,100 spectators, the second largest in the world.

Here's the sold tickets numbers for 2008.

2008 Daily Attendance (Sold Tickets)
Wednesday, March 12 --- 13,321
Thursday, March 13 --- 18,483
Friday, March 14 --- 20,033
Friday Evening 14 --- 14,606
Saturday, March 15 --- 21,512
Saturday Evening 15 --- 16,386
Sunday, March 16 --- 21,318
Sunday Evening 16 --- 14,485
Monday, March 17 --- 19,324
Monday, Evening 17 --- 13,133
Tuesday, March 18 --- 18,510
Tuesday Evening 18 ---13,368
Wednesday, March 19 --- 16,661
Wednesday Evening 19 --- 14,579
Thursday, March 20 --- 15,135
Thursday Evening 20 --- 14,959
Friday, March 21 --- 16,205
Friday Evening --- 16,521
Saturday, March 22 --- 16,870
Sunday, March 23 --- 15,860 http://www.bnpparibasopen.org/4/assets/graphics/space.gif
Total Attendance --- 331,269

Attendance sold figures are always audited (verified) by certified accounting firms as they are used to determine % cuts to secondary parties (ATP, WTA, or partners), contract negotiations with sponsors/vendors, and revenue owed to IRS. It'd be ludicrous to try to fabricate these numbers.

Vlover
Mar 25th, 2009, 07:10 PM
[QUOTE]If only we could all treat each other with civility, rather than lording the pieces of social prestige to which we cling at night, attempting to hide from our insecurities, over the people we must convince ourselves we are better than. :)It is sad but for some their self worth depend on it.:devil:

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 08:03 PM
How does spelling factor into your equation? Perhaps I could harp on your parallelism as well. I believe you meant to say, "The only way of differentiating people should be not the color of their skin, but rather the substance of their posts."

If I were to be particularly ornery I might even quibble with your usage of "people" and ask which people you wished to reference--the Cherokee perhaps, or the French? Of course, on most days I have accepted that US Americans have all but obliterated the original meaning of the word and have instead hijacked it to mean what correctly should be termed "persons".

Whether or not you are a Christian, the Christian Bible contains a lot of wisdom. I recommend you take a look at Matthew 7:1-2, "Judge not lest you be judged yourselves, for in the way you judge, you will be judged as well."

Judgement is not mispelled. You fell into a trap I laid for you. There are two acceptable spellings for judgement, one with an "e" and one without. Look it up. I chose the one that would elicit this response. (I was fishing for sophists.)

As to people, if you recognize that people in the colloquial American usage of that word is used interchangeably with the plural form of person, what are you quibbling about?

I would be willing to entertain a conversation about the historical and philosophical provenance of that term, but if we did I'd have to point out that the subject is a bit more complicated than just telling me that there are "Cherokee people" and "French people." In short, there are only "French people" as you put it because for Marx, Karl Marx that is, the concept of the people (whether it be the French, English, or German word) came to represent the political and economic consciousness of a group in opposition to some economic, political, or religious force, as in the famous couplet "opium of the people." That's how this whole "people" thing got started.

As to your reference to that passage in the Bible, I really don't know what to say. I mean I really want to laugh. That's all I will say about that.

Rix643
Mar 25th, 2009, 08:27 PM
You really feel superior to others, don't you?

LDVTennis
Mar 25th, 2009, 08:30 PM
You shouldn't judge people at all.

It's called critical thinking. Get some. It does wonders.

Rix643
Mar 25th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Why do you assume I lack the ability to think critically? You don't know me. Aren't you being too presumptious?

Don't answer this, the question is supposed to be rhetorical.

emmz
Mar 25th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I sat in the second row at the ao womens semi's with some 'elite tennis fans' and they were a joke, far better conversation with the 'real' fans two rows from the back who were just happy to be there.

mboyle
Mar 25th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Judgement is not mispelled. You fell into a trap I laid for you. There are two acceptable spellings for judgement, one with an "e" and one without. Look it up. I chose the one that would elicit this response. (I was fishing for sophists.)

As to people, if you recognize that people in the colloquial American usage of that word is used interchangeably with the plural form of person, what are you quibbling about?

I would be willing to entertain a conversation about the historical and philosophical provenance of that term, but if we did I'd have to point out that the subject is a bit more complicated than just telling me that there are "Cherokee people" and "French people." In short, there are only "French people" as you put it because for Marx, Karl Marx that is, the concept of the people (whether it be the French, English, or German word) came to represent the political and economic consciousness of a group in opposition to some economic, political, or religious force, as in the famous couplet "opium of the people." That's how this whole "people" thing got started.

As to your reference to that passage in the Bible, I really don't know what to say. I mean I really want to laugh. That's all I will say about that.

1. Your parallelism was still far off my friend. I see you have not even tried to defend that.
2. Judgement is the British spelling, according to my Webster's at least. If you want to lose the American flag, I'll be happy to accommodate your spelling, provided that you also use "colour" and "civilisation" etc.
3. The Marxist explanation of "people" is just BS, seeing as Vergil talks about Aeneas's mission to found the Roman PEOPLE within the first ten lines of the Aenead, a good 18 centuries before Marx. Further, Native American tribes are often referred to as peoples. As for why I would bother even bringing it up, it really upsets me when people try to use their education and advantages in life to put other people down. I don't go around correcting people's grammar, but I will try to defend people who are being antagonized by assholes.

bandabou
Mar 25th, 2009, 10:02 PM
LDV, LDV.... our 'superior' 'elite' friend. what's going on, man? This isn't the way to threat people. Judgmental, thinking that because you THINK that you have more money you're somehow superior to others, etc..?!

raquel
Mar 25th, 2009, 10:10 PM
I sat in the second row at the ao womens semi's with some 'elite tennis fans' and they were a joke, far better conversation with the 'real' fans two rows from the back who were just happy to be there.I agree with you. It's the same at Wimbledon. Out on the outside courts it's a really good atmosphere as it's lots of fans just glad to to be there and appreciating the tennis, rather than just the big stars and expensive seats.

M.S.F
Mar 25th, 2009, 10:50 PM
http://www.mypicx.com/uploadimg/1432408002_03252009_1.jpg

Slammer7
Mar 25th, 2009, 11:28 PM
http://www.mypicx.com/uploadimg/1432408002_03252009_1.jpg

Thank you, thank you!:worship: I knew someone would have a still of all those empty seats. There aren't enough corporate tickets and people willing to throw away money in California. The sit of such an empty stadium was shocking and truly saddening.:sad: As a tennis fan I don't want to see that, the game deserves better than that.:help: :sad:

Dawn Marie
Mar 26th, 2009, 02:12 AM
racist people come in all shapes and hues. Tennis is an elitist sport that as a whole is RACIST and SEXIST. I might as well add HOMOPHOBIC also.

Rix643
Mar 26th, 2009, 05:18 AM
http://www.mypicx.com/uploadimg/1432408002_03252009_1.jpg

OMG, I never knew it was THAT bad.... :eek:

pollison
Mar 26th, 2009, 05:54 AM
I would think maybe 20-25% of the crowd would specifically to watch womens tennis

Wojtek
Mar 26th, 2009, 06:11 AM
It's not lie. During men matches it was full even on court 2 and 3

bobbynorwich
Mar 26th, 2009, 07:19 AM
Get over it. Indian Wells has both the highest ticket sales and the highest profit margin of any tournament after the Grand Slams.

Human Nature
Mar 26th, 2009, 08:21 AM
Get over it. Indian Wells has both the highest ticket sales and the highest profit margin of any tournament after the Grand Slams.


See the picture above , it was even worst during quarters detween Pav vs forget the name ..

You realy cant face the thruth as it hurts ..

Human Nature
Mar 26th, 2009, 08:23 AM
It's not lie. During men matches it was full even on court 2 and 3


we are talking about the attendence for WTA .., see the picture above , why cant you just face the thruth i cant get it ..:confused:

DutchieGirl
Mar 26th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Accurate numbers are pretty much impossible to assess, so claiming your broke your attendance by a whopping 1,000 is pretty bogus, but the general number is probably in the ballpark, so to speak. Given the size of the venue and number of matches played, the 330,000+ number is probably reasonable.

TV never really tells the whole story, because you rarely get shots of the full stands for the simple reason that the action is on the court/field/pitch.
How are accurate numbers impossible to assess? At the AO, you have to scan in (and out) with the barcode on your ticket. Iwould assume it'd be quite easy to track the numbers with such a system. :shrug: (Yes, I understand perhaps they don't have this system at IW).

Wojtek
Mar 26th, 2009, 10:14 AM
we are talking about the attendence for WTA .., see the picture above , why cant you just face the thruth i cant get it ..:confused:

there is no word about WTA and women tennis in the first post or maybe i'm blind.;)

I saw few matches from IW and it's true what you wrote. It's not lie that attendence isn't bigger because it was max full on court 2 and 3 when men played and it was empty on center court when women played.

I'm not surprised because i would go in the same way. Sorry but if i can choose Zvoanreva-Li and Verdasco - Kohlschriber i will go with the men.

Human Nature
Mar 26th, 2009, 10:57 AM
there is no word about WTA and women tennis in the first post or maybe i'm blind.;)

I saw few matches from IW and it's true what you wrote. It's not lie that attendence isn't bigger because it was max full on court 2 and 3 when men played and it was empty on center court when women played.

I'm not surprised because i would go in the same way. Sorry but if i can choose Zvoanreva-Li and Verdasco - Kohlschriber i will go with the men.



OK then ;.;) , i would have loved to watch LI though ..even if i am sick of all these Russian players without any charisma (Svonareva and co..) ..