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Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
OMG...this is not good..lot of money for nothing..even though they are millionaires.

Take a look: http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25219336-23210,00.html

debopero
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:08 PM
fucking ridiculous

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:12 PM
:rolleyes:

The Daviator
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Almost half a million for Ree :eek: What about this clause that they won't be fined if they promote some tournament?

Craig.
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:13 PM
:speakles:

Weren't they just supposed to do promotional stuff?

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:14 PM
I think they dont care ..., they just will pay and skip it every year thats all ...!!

Olórin
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:14 PM
It being taken from the year end bonus pool: does this mean that they just don't get a bonus or what?
Do they actually have to pay out of their existing assets?

cn ireland
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:15 PM
This is ridiculous, fined for making a stand!!!!

However, I doubt it'll bother either of them;)!

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:15 PM
What fine? They will get nothing from the bonus pool. Maria also. They won't lose anything. It's just a pathetic way to exaggerate the situation. Typical media :rolleyes:

Direwolf
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Serena and Venus Williams hit with financial penalties for not playing Indian Wells
From correspondents in Indian Wells, California

March 21, 2009 The WTA will take a hard financial line with the Williams sisters, who have boycotted the Indian Wells Masters since a booing incident in 2001.

Tour boss Larry Scott says Venus and Serena will pay the price for their continual absences from the required event.

"There will be sanctions despite the personal issues of the Williams sisters," said Scott.

"They will pay significant consequences."

In the pocket, those will include the loss of $A438,00 for world No.1 Serena from the $A2.77 million year-end bonus pool, while Venus will forfeit $A219,000.

The stubborn sisters, who claim that racism was responsible for the crowd jeers near the turn of the century, will each have to make promotional appearances for the WTA - Venus in July in conjunction with the ESPY sports awards in LA and Serena in the autumn to promote the year-end championships in Doha.

While Indian Wells may have missed the sibling act, there will be no begging to get them to return to the 12-day event.

"Venus and Serena know they are welcome here and the fans would love to see them," said tournament director Steve Simon.

"We would be delighted if they decide to play in future years - if not, then they will deal with the repercussions."

But for other players, having the powerhouse pair out of the frame is just fine.

"It does create opportunities, them not being here," said No.11 Victoria Azarenka, already the winner of two titles in 2009.

"You have to feel confident against every opponent but it does make the draw a little more open and there are some more chances for players to make a run."

debopero
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I like Vika now :hearts:

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:17 PM
The quote from the tour director of Indian Wells sounds threatening "We'd love to have them, if not they will face consequences".

That sounds extremely welcoming to me.
The sisters are right to boycott this lame event.

Direwolf
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:18 PM
they should be happy you know...
someone else is going to win a the semi big title!!

GO PAVLYUCHENKOVA!!!

pepaw
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
yay

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:23 PM
yay

Same goes for Sharapova :haha:

Lulu.
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Same goes for Sharapova :haha:

Exactly. :lol:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:24 PM
yay


I dont think they will change their mind for this fine trust me ...

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:26 PM
The quote from the tour director of Indian Wells sounds threatening "We'd love to have them, if not they will face consequences".

That sounds extremely welcoming to me.
The sisters are right to boycott this lame event.
What is he supposed to say? The event is paying big money to the WTA to get the best and the brightest, and two of the best refuse to go near an event which is supposed to be mandatory for everyone. If they refuse to play, then there are consequences.

Beat
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:27 PM
OMG...this is not good..lot of money for nothing..even though they are millionaires.

you realize they don't actually pay anything?

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:29 PM
What is he supposed to say? The event is paying big money to the WTA to get the best and the brightest, and two of the best refuse to go near an event which is supposed to be mandatory for everyone. If they refuse to play, then there are consequences.

True , but these consequences wont bother them ...

tae04
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Im sure they can careless.

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:32 PM
What is he supposed to say? The event is paying big money to the WTA to get the best and the brightest, and two of the best refuse to go near an event which is supposed to be mandatory for everyone. If they refuse to play, then there are consequences.
Just say that they would love to have them back. Leave it at that. Saying that if they don't, they will face consequences, to me, sounds like a threat. It sounds like a contradiction. Play here ... or else! He should have just said "We would love to have them play here again." End quote.

CJ07
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:40 PM
I don't understand why this comes up every year. They won't play Indian Wells bar putting a gun to their heds. Done deal.

Move on. This is a overpriced mickey mouse tournament anyway...it has been for years.

2Black
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
What is he supposed to say? The event is paying big money to the WTA to get the best and the brightest, and two of the best refuse to go near an event which is supposed to be mandatory for everyone. If they refuse to play, then there are consequences.

Because if they are sooooo welcomed, why did IW remove Serena's championship banners. He is not welcoming them - he is trying to get a dig at them. But it's his tournament that has turned into a joke on the women's side. :lol:

Rocketta
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
um, were they guaranteed any of that bonus money? I mean what if they don't even play the YEC? :lol:

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:43 PM
I don't understand why this comes up every year. They won't play Indian Wells bar putting a gun to their heds. Done deal.

Move on. This is a overpriced mickey mouse tournament anyway...it has been for years.
Roughly 8 years? :tape:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:43 PM
If I were them I would not do any of the promotional events because those are very hefty deductions. It's almost like they are using the sisters, they taking money away, using them for promotional events AND not banning them from Miami because they know they'll bring in revenue and tv ratings :rolleyes:

Slutiana
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:45 PM
That is a joke. And as someone has already said, the tournament director sure sounds welcoming. What an idiot.

volta
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:10 PM
"Venus and Serena know they are welcome here and the fans would love to see them," said tournament director Steve Simon.
As proven by serena's champion pictures on the wall ...

Ooooohhhh...

vwfan
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:19 PM
:eek:

I think that is really unreasonable!

Ellen Dawson
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:21 PM
"It does create opportunities, them not being here," said No.11 Victoria Azarenka, already the winner of two titles in 2009.

"You have to feel confident against every opponent but it does make the draw a little more open and there are some more chances for players to make a run."

Vika doesn't mind. :hehehe:

Bayo
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:26 PM
Eh. And what would the tour do if they didn't pay up? :rolleyes:

On to Miami.

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:28 PM
Just say that they would love to have them back. Leave it at that. Saying that if they don't, they will face consequences, to me, sounds like a threat. It sounds like a contradiction. Play here ... or else! He should have just said "We would love to have them play here again." End quote.
EXACTLY!

He can't in one hand say "he would love to have them back." Then on the other hand say "they'll face consequences" if they don't comeback. He really doesn't get it! If he was bright, he would know by now that fines and threats of suspension will NOT make them go back.

Indian Wells, the tennis establishment and Williams haters just wish that threatening the sisters with whatever they could think of will make Venus and Serena change their minds. Keep on dreaming!

The powers that be will just have to go back to the drawing board and think of NEW RULES to put in place in order to punish the sisters for not going back. They'll be wasting their time, because the sisters will continue to stand up for what's right. :wavey:

Vincey!
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:31 PM
To be honest, I think it's just fair, I mean it is a rule, even if they have a reason to not want to play there, they can't be above the rules, other players will try to find a way to avoid some tournments too.

Ellen Dawson
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:33 PM
EXACTLY!

He can't in one hand say "he would love to have them back." Then on the other hand say "they'll face consequences" if they don't comeback. He really doesn't get it! If he was bright, he would know by now that fines and threats of suspension will NOT make them go back.

Indian Wells, the tennis establishment and Williams haters just wish that threatening the sisters with whatever they could think of will make Venus and Serena change their minds. Keep on dreaming!

The powers that be will just have to go back to the drawing board and think of NEW RULES to put in place in order to punish the sisters for not going back. They'll be wasting their time, because the sisters will continue to stand up for what's right. :wavey:

Totally agree! Dream on, Larry!!!

starin
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:37 PM
The quote from the tour director of Indian Wells sounds threatening "We'd love to have them, if not they will face consequences".

That sounds extremely welcoming to me.
The sisters are right to boycott this lame event.

the TD always makes quotes like that. It's like those fake ladies who are able to turn a smile into an insult. IW does not want the Sisters back.

Matt01
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:37 PM
This is ridiculous, fined for making a stand!!!!


What stand? :lol:

Noctis
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:39 PM
oh piss off like they care,just cos no one is buying tickets to watching the shitty IW,They had to go sneaky and use some sneaky rules to ask WS to pay for the profits losts.I Hope they go bankrupt in the future and go under wells.

V's a star
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:40 PM
What stand? :lol:

oohh lawd. Dont reply it doesnt derisive ur typing

frenchie
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:40 PM
Ridiculous!
I want them to go to the Supreme Court!!

V's a star
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:41 PM
Why dont they jus make IW not mandatory lol. It sucked before it was made mandatory anyway

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
oh piss off like they care,just cos no one is buying tickets to watching the shitty IW,They had to go sneaky and use some sneaky rules to ask WS to pay for the profits losts.I Hope they go bankrupt in the future and go under wells.

Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:

Uranium
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
Fine is better than suspending them from Miami, so I am sure they don't mind. They get what they want: skip IW and play Miami.:shrug:

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
The stubborn sisters,
:lol:

This guy is pissed, isn't he?

I'm loving it!

Black Mamba.
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:

I think the ATP tour has more to do with that than the WTA.

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:43 PM
oh piss off like they care,just cos no one is buying tickets to watching the shitty IW,They had to go sneaky and use some sneaky rules to ask WS to pay for the profits losts.I Hope they go bankrupt in the future and go under wells.
IW has better attendance than Miami, and its YOY numbers are up by 8,000 already.

Andreas
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Oh no. That is RACISM! :speakles:

frenchie
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:44 PM
What about Sharapova??

She played doubles but was a direct entrant in singles and still didn't play?

Diesel
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Why is Serena fined more? Is it based on ranking?

V's a star
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:45 PM
I think the ATP tour has more to do with that than the WTA.

:worship: thank u jus about to say that

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:46 PM
IW has better attendance than Miami, and its YOY numbers are up by 8,000 already.
Oh really!

So why does IW need the Williams sisters at its tournament? :confused:

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:47 PM
Oh really!

So why do they need the Williams sisters there? :confused:
Yeah, really.

They don't need the Williams sisters, and the Williams sisters don't need IW. I think both parties have made that pretty clear.

Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:49 PM
What stand? :lol:

matt as usual your attempt at humour fails..

as for the people who say it's fair cause it is the rules...we have rules in society that are sometimes bent or negociated to accomodate special situations..the tour could do the same. the TD can stfu, cause the williams' aren't gunna be anywhere near that idiot. what a nerve he has really. "if not". exxxxcccuuuse you? k pce

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Yeah, really.

They don't need the Williams sisters, and the Williams sisters don't need IW. I think both parties have made that pretty clear.
but they sure do love the money coming in from the Williamses ;)
I wonder if the Venus and Serena should just write a cheque to one of the Champions since they are basically dishing out prize money. A fine is one thing, but half a million for Serena. :help:
Talk about a rule needing to be revised.

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:49 PM
I think the ATP tour has more to do with that than the WTA.

Just like any other mixed events :shrug:

markdelaney
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:50 PM
I think this is only fair. They knew the consequences and they have a duty to play there, whether somebody booed them 8 years ago or not. It isn't like it is going to hurt them financially. They're not gods, they're tennis players and should have the same commitment and dedication to the tour as any other player.

Noctis
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:50 PM
IW has better attendance than Miami, and its YOY numbers are up by 8,000 already.

Are we talking about the past? Because all I see is empty seats.

Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:50 PM
Yeah, really.

They don't need the Williams sisters, and the Williams sisters don't need IW. I think both parties have made that pretty clear.

they dont need the williams sisters, BUT they want the williams sisters..sucks for them, but you can't always get what you want;) - especially when the tourny themself is responsible for driving them away

Matt01
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:51 PM
matt as usual your attempt at humour fails..


It was a serious question :)
But so far the WS fans have failed to give me an appropriate answer...:tape:

Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Oh no. That is RACISM! :speakles:

oh no. you aren't funny

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:53 PM
but they sure do love the money coming in from the Williamses ;)
I wonder if the Venus and Serena should just write a cheque to one of the Champions since they are basically dishing out prize money. A fine is one thing, but half a million for Serena. :help:
Talk about a rule needing to be revised.
I don't think the money is actually coming out of their pockets, though. It sounds like they just aren't eligible to collect up to a certain amount of money from a bonus pool at the end of the year. And even if they were fined directly, I don't think it would be paid out to the tournament in it's entirety. Most of it would go to the WTA.

Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:53 PM
It was a serious question :)
But so far the WS fans have failed to give me an appropriate answer...:tape:

maybe, since you are so clever and all, you can deduce your own answer based on the obvious

Bezz
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:54 PM
Good, the tour has rules that need to be enforced, or else whats the point.

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:54 PM
Are we talking about the past? Because all I see is empty seats.

From Yahoo :

Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:54 PM
Are we talking about the past? Because all I see is empty seats.
As of last year, IW was the most attended non-slam tennis event. And their numbers are even better this year.

Matt01
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:55 PM
maybe, since you are so clever and all, you can deduce your own answer based on the obvious


OK. Truth is that there is no "stand".

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:56 PM
I don't think the money is actually coming out of their pockets, though. It sounds like they just aren't eligible to collect up to a certain amount of money from a bonus pool at the end of the year. And even if they were fined directly, I don't think it would be paid out to the tournament in it's entirety. Most of it would go to the WTA.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. I was under the assumption that they were paying, and the money was going to the event.

Like the reversal of an appearance fee :lol:

ImaVeggie
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:57 PM
Fine is better than suspending them from Miami, so I am sure they don't mind. They get what they want: skip IW and play Miami.:shrug:

Right. Wasn't that supposed to be what would happen? They (and anyone else who didn't play IW) would be suspended from Miami? I never did understand that rationale.

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Yeah, really.

They don't need the Williams sisters, and the Williams sisters don't need IW. I think both parties have made that pretty clear.
Both parties have made that pretty clear? Now I'm really confused. So IW has not been trying desperately (but failing very badly) to get the sisters back? :lol:

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
In case some people didn't get it, it's NOT a fine. Understood? Secondly wta matches at IW sucked and had no attendance this year. Stop lying with the record crowd bs :lol: There was no one in the stands yesterday and not much difference today. WS boycott DOES hurt the tournament deal with it. It also hurts the WS as far as not adding millions to their already multi million $ bank accounts :lol: But more importantly it hurts the fans. WS are the best players on tour and fans want to see them play. Like it or not Williams vs. another top player is the marquee match up since 1999 or a bit later. It's pretty much a lose lose situation. Geeee why is that so tough to comprehend?

Keep saying it's such a great tournament every day maybe it will become true. And I hope loser sports writers stop using Williams for lame publicity for IW every year :o:rolleyes:

Caillou
Mar 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Both parties have made that pretty clear? Now I'm really confused. So IW has not been trying desperately (but failing very badly) to get the sisters back? :lol:

i second this

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:00 PM
As of last year, IW was the most attended non-slam tennis event. And their numbers are even better this year.

You can tell by watching wta matches :tape:

tennisIlove09
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Right. Wasn't that supposed to be what would happen? They (and anyone else who didn't play IW) would be suspended from Miami? I never did understand that rationale.

In the Williamses case though, it makes no sense for the WTA to imply that rule. Why would you punish the Miami tournament, the fans and the sisters (who have won 8 of the last 12 titles there)?

Andreas
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:03 PM
oh no. you aren't funny

Well, everything is racism, so why not this too? :)

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Both parties have made that pretty clear? Now I'm really confused. So IW has not been trying desperately (but failing very badly) to get the sisters back? :lol:
There's a big difference between wanting and needing something. The WTA and IW wants the Williams sisters to play the tournament. Why wouldn't they? They are two of the top five players in women's tennis. The tournament doesn't need them to survive, and hasn't needed them in all they years they've boycotted it.

Dodoboy.
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:
:hug: Your confusing so many things. Capacity and attendance. WTA and ATP.

Thkmra
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:13 PM
In case some people didn't get it, it's NOT a fine. Understood? Secondly wta matches at IW sucked and had no attendance this year. Stop lying with the record crowd bs :lol: There was no one in the stands yesterday and not much difference today. WS boycott DOES hurt the tournament deal with it. It also hurts the WS as far as not adding millions to their already multi million $ bank accounts :lol: But more importantly it hurts the fans. WS are the best players on tour and fans want to see them play. Like it or not Williams vs. another top player is the marquee match up since 1999 or a bit later. It's pretty much a lose lose situation. Geeee why is that so tough to comprehend?

Keep saying it's such a great tournament every day maybe it will become true. And I hope loser sports writers stop using Williams for lame publicity for IW every year :o:rolleyes:
:lol: * Hands over ears*.....LA LA LA LA 'Man,Indian Wells Sucks!!!...LA LA LA LA....:help:

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:14 PM
There's a big difference between wanting and needing something. The WTA and IW wants the Williams sisters to play the tournament. Why wouldn't they? They are two of the top five players in women's tennis. The tournament doesn't need them to survive, and hasn't needed them in all they years they've boycotted it.
Well, it has a funny way of showing it, doesn't it?

IW doesn't need the sisters to survive, yet it keeps on making every attempt and threat to try to get them back. I get it! :rolleyes:

brickhousesupporter
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:15 PM
I am ok with the fine......Sometimes you got to pay the cost to be your own boss.

BTW Serena and Venus made more than enough money playing the BJK Cup....I doubt they notice the fine of their W4.

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Well, it has a funny way of showing it, doesn't it?

IW doesn't need the sisters to survive, yet it keeps on making every attempt and threat to try to get them back. I get it! :rolleyes:
The tournament is paying boatloads of money, and the tour, by way of the Williams sisters, is not living up to its end of the bargain.

As I said, they don't need the Williams sisters, but they want them. And if I was paying millions of dollars to the tour, and two of its top players didn't show up because they didn't feel like it, I'd also be frustrated.

Noctis
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:19 PM
IW May aswell go ATP Only.

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:21 PM
Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:


Realy ?

I was so much shocked yesterday when saw images of quarter finals for the women's side there were NOBODY in the stadium except the players .

So i am a bit surprised by this statement , ...i dont its true seriously ..lol

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:22 PM
:hug: Your confusing so many things. Capacity and attendance. WTA and ATP.

Your point being?

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:25 PM
The tournament is paying boatloads of money, and the tour, by way of the Williams sisters, is not living up to its end of the bargain.

As I said, they don't need the Williams sisters, but they want them. And if I was paying millions of dollars to the tour, and two of its top players didn't show up because they didn't feel like it, I'd also be frustrated.
Let's get something straight! They didn't stop playing there "because they didn't feel like it." And I'm pretty sure you know that.

They stopped playing there because they were mistreated for over two hours by the crowd and nothing was said and done to stop the mistreatment. Therefore, they have every right to not go back. And that's that!

brickhousesupporter
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Indian Wells can have large attendance because they can sell more tickets due to their large capacity stadiums. Tournaments that have limited space have to guarantee every ticket buyer a seat. Indian Wells has 3 stadiums and Miami only 1.

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:27 PM
Realy ?

I was so much shocked yesterday when saw images of quarter finals for the women's side there were NOBODY in the stadium except the players .

So i am a bit surprised by this statement , ...i dont its true seriously ..lol
It's true. I don't know why people are arguing with numbers here.

As an example, compare Miami's numbers to it's bastard step-child Indian Wells':

2008 Attendance totals:

Indian Wells - 331,269
Miami - 297,011

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Let's get something straight! They didn't stop playing there "because they didn't feel like it." And I'm pretty sure you know that.

They stopped playing there because they were mistreated for over two hours by the crowd and nothing was said and done to stop the mistreatment. Therefore, they have every right to not go back. And that's that!
What was the tournament going to do, stop play and scold the crowd?

Yeah, they have a right to never go back there again. But if they do that, they're breaking tour rules, and they have to pay the consequences.

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:33 PM
as usual SOME (i have to stress the word some, or certain posters will get all huffy saying why lump all williams sisters fans together, when its these particular posters im refering to) williams sisters fans need a reality check. its NOT a fine, they are just not eligable for the bonus pool now, which is the rules and has been for a while. the bonus pool is for players that fulfill their obligations to the tour throughout the year, the williams have not done this.

and yes it dosen't matter how much you want to argue it, its FACT IW is the most attended tournament outside of the slams and numbers are up this year again.

lastly SOME posters say the tournament director is not being welcoming and IW obviously dosen't want the williams sisters as they've taken serenas poster down. followed by others saying IW is desperate to have the williams sisters play and the tournament needs them, these points are both contradictory and show most williams fans have absolutely no idea what IW want, yet have strong opinions on it :help:.

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:35 PM
It's true. I don't know why people are arguing with numbers here.

As an example, compare Miami's numbers to it's bastard step-child Indian Wells':

2008 Attendance totals:

Indian Wells - 331,269
Miami - 297,011


Send official stats .

I always see full seats at Miami ALWAYS !!...but since several years EMPTY SEATS , i would even say EMPTY STADIUM in IW . I dont know where you picked your stats but , what i see is not what they say , i trust my eyes ...

As for the WS they could care less . With this fine everybody is happy . The WTA got their money and the WS dont play a racist event , THATS ALL !!

2Black
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:36 PM
I hope Richard Williams gets involved so I can get my popcorn ready. lol

Thkmra
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:37 PM
as usual SOME (i have to stress the word some, or certain posters will get all huffy saying why lump all williams sisters fans together, when its these particular posters im refering to) williams sisters fans need a reality check. its NOT a fine, they are just not eligable for the bonus pool now, which is the rules and has been for a while. the bonus pool is for players that fulfill their obligations to the tour throughout the year, the williams have not done this.

and yes it dosen't matter how much you want to argue it, its FACT IW is the most attended tournament outside of the slams and numbers are up this year again.

lastly SOME posters say the tournament director is not being welcoming and IW obviously dosen't want the williams sisters as they've taken serenas poster down. followed by others saying IW is desperate to have the williams sisters play and the tournament needs them, these points are both contradictory and show most williams fans have absolutely no idea what IW want, yet have strong opinions on it :help:.

Ummmmmm.....Are you done?:help:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:38 PM
What was the tournament going to do, stop play and scold the crowd?

Yeah, they have a right to never go back there again. But if they do that, they're breaking tour rules, and they have to pay the consequences.


Yeah , but These consequences wont bother them

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Send official stats .

I always see full seats at Miami ALWAYS !!...but since several years EMPTY SEATS , i would even say EMPTY STADIUM in IW . I dont know where you picked your stats but , what i see is not what they say , i trust my eyes ...

As for the WS they could care less . With this fine everybody is happy . The WTA got their money and the WS dont play a racist event , THATS ALL !!
These numbers were taken from the official tournament websites. You can go look there yourself.

Saying that it's a racist event is an opinion and generalization. But, okay.

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Ummmmmm.....Are you done?:help:

yes hence why i clicked 'post' and posted it :wavey:

Dodoboy.
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:39 PM
You just have to WATCH the women's matches to see how well the attendance is doing. Particularly this year without Maria and Lindsay!

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:

on the men's side :rolls: stop talking as if IW is an individual event and not a joint event...have you seen the 50 people in the women's matches, 20 of whom are the personal team of each? :rolleyes:

2Black
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:43 PM
You just have to WATCH the women's matches to see how well the attendance is doing. Particularly this year without Maria and Lindsay!

Did I just see someone quote Yahoo in regards to tennis :lol: Boy, people are desperate.

Look people - the ATP is carrying IW. Even Ray Charles can see that from his grave.

For the last time, Venus & Serena were NOT fined. They are also NOT doing any promo for IW. I still hope Richard Williams stirs the pot up again. I need a good comedy. :lol:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:43 PM
These numbers were taken from the official tournament websites. You can go look there yourself.

Saying that it's a racist event is an opinion and generalization. But, okay.

I dont believe in these figures . I think its a marketing argument to make people think IW is succesfull for the WTA ..when everybody see the contratry with eyes by EMPTY stadium during female quarters finals .

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:44 PM
You just have to WATCH the women's matches to see how well the attendance is doing. Particularly this year without Maria and Lindsay!

any match in miami that wont involve a williams sister on the womens side will be played to a empty stadium, heck i've even seen some of serenas matches in miami where its only half full and its a much smaller stadium.

mixed events will always have more bums on seats for the mens matches, miami is no different.

LDVTennis
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:45 PM
In case some people didn't get it, it's NOT a fine. Understood? Secondly wta matches at IW sucked and had no attendance this year. Stop lying with the record crowd bs :lol: There was no one in the stands yesterday and not much difference today. WS boycott DOES hurt the tournament deal with it.

As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....

2Black
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:46 PM
any match in miami that wont involve a williams sister on the womens side will be played to a empty stadium, heck i've even seen some of serenas matches in miami where its only half full and its a much smaller stadium.

mixed events will always have more bums on seats for the mens matches, miami is no different.

Why are you so desperate :lol:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:48 PM
any match in miami that wont involve a williams sister on the womens side will be played to a empty stadium, heck i've even seen some of serenas matches in miami where its only half full and its a much smaller stadium.

mixed events will always have more bums on seats for the mens matches, miami is no different.


Miami like the GS are always been full since the quarters . Serena's matches since the quarters have always been full..i have never seen the contrary except for the early rounds , but it works for all the big tournaments even in the ATP .

IW is the exception , EMPTY at early round , EMPTY at last round :lol:

brickhousesupporter
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM
As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....
TV ratings what tv ratings....has anyone been able to watch matches on a constant basis.?

This is how I know that article is BS! Not saying that ticket sales aren't doing well but the article reeks of trying to make a situation look better than it is.

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM
What was the tournament going to do, stop play and scold the crowd?

Yeah, they have a right to never go back there again. But if they do that, they're breaking tour rules, and they have to pay the consequences.
YES! Anything that would have stopped the mistreatment. That would have shown they care to having them comeback. They just didn't think that the sisters would have the nerves to take a stand all these years.

Let's say they didn't want to stop play. During a change-over, the tournament director or chair umpire couldn't say something, anything to stop the mistreatment? If something worst had happened, they would just have stood by and do nothing as well? And that would have been okay with you?

And think goodness that the sisters will never go back regardless of paying the "consequences."

Black Mamba.
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....


You should be laughing at yourself because you just proved his/her point. The ATP is helping this tournament not the WTA.

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....

Yeah....

Dodoboy.
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
LDV :banghead:

Lindsayfan32
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
There are a couple of posters saying it is ridiculous that the sisters are getting fined Why? You don't take a stand over somethnig that happened 8 years ago and not expect there to be some backlash. They are being treated like the rest of the tour and they are just two of many players on tour just like everyone else. They are getting fined as per the rules. The promotional work they have to so is a joke Venus going to the ESPY how is that going to promote tennis and she might actually enjoy it. Serena promoting Doha that's a really giving her something she really dislikes. This is surposed to be punishment for not playing Indian wells. The WTA have kissed their arses again the only thing they did right was fining them.

sandv1
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:51 PM
Pffft, ain't no thang! :rolleyes:

I support the dynamic duo all the way. :yeah:

Honestly, they both might keep lighter schedules than the likes of JJ, but they seemed focused on tourneys that are top drawer _and_ that fit their respective training needs. (...as if that were news...)

Granted, winning IW pays out a lot of dosh, but as other have noted, they are _not_ losing sleep over the paper! :lol:

Here's a decent question: Have any of the tour reps _really_ tried to sit down with WS and hash out their sticking points. I still think that trying to force them (or anyone else) into a schedule is for the birds. I don't think that it's much of a stretch to figure that WS need a much greater incentive to even so much as think about playing in IW.

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:52 PM
Why are you so desperate :lol:

why are you so desperate to want to put IW down :lol:

Noctis
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:54 PM
Anything with WS Have most posts :worship:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:54 PM
There are a couple of posters saying it is ridiculous that the sisters are getting fined Why? You don't take a stand over somethnig that happened 8 years ago and not expect there to be some backlash. They are being treated like the rest of the tour and they are just two of many players on tour just like everyone else. They are getting fined as per the rules. The promotional work they have to so is a joke Venus going to the ESPY how is that going to promote tennis and she might actually enjoy it. Serena promoting Doha that's a really giving her something she really dislikes. This is surposed to be punishment for not playing Indian wells. The WTA have kissed their arses again the only thing they did right was fining them.



The WS are fine with this fine...:lol:

2Black
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM
why are you so desperate to want to put IW down :lol:

Are we still using the yahoo article as proof :lol: WOW

I love the line about TV ratings when die hard tennis fans can't even find it :lol: When FSN is ending coverage before matches are done or start :lol:

This has to be funniest stuff I've read in '09

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM
As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....
:cuckoo:

gmokb
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM
Big deal about the fine, money can't or shouldn't replace your self respect. Since IW doesn't need them (I really think that's a damn lie or why else make it mandatory if not to force them to play) and my girls don't want to play there, then what's the big deal? All this uproar about players that you don't need to make your tournament a success. I hope they continue to stand their grounds and never play there.

LDVTennis
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:57 PM
You should be laughing at yourself because you just proved his/her point. The ATP is helping this tournament not the WTA.

That was NOT his point. And, you should know that. If you don't know it, you are as stupid as he is.

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:58 PM
Are we still using the yahoo article as proof :lol: WOW

I love the line about TV ratings when die hard tennis fans can't even find it :lol: When FSN is ending coverage before matches are done or start :lol:

This has to be funniest stuff I've read in '09

congratulations you have replaced banned denise on my ignore list. i haven't posted a yahoo article, its well known that IW is the most attended tournament outside of the slams, if you want to play ignorant feel free :wavey:

FoxyliciousKhat
Mar 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM
I really don't care that they are fined. As Vee would say 'It is what it is" I just think the amount is kinda high, but those are the rules and such is life.

Foxy

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:00 PM
As if it weren't clear already that you are not very bright. Still, you have to take every opportunity to prove it.

Here is the proof of what he was saying --- http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/blog/ten_experts/post/Indian-Wells-boycott-hurts-Williamses-more-than-;_ylt=AsMowka56mG6Z_8xlg6r29U4v7YF?urn=ten,149332.

The yahoo article at that link states the following: "If the duo is hoping to hurt the tournament then the plan is not really working.
Despite a difficult economy, attendance until the middle of the tournament’s second week had increased about 8,000 from 2008. TV ratings also were strong, helped by the continued progress of Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and home favorite Andy Roddick."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: --- I'm laughing at you....

Surely this helps to prove you're bright :tape::spit:

WTA matches sucked and attendance was awful. What part of that did you not understand? If both Williams were playing and Federer, Nadal were absent it would be the same or even worse because you know why :rolleyes: Tournament does get hurt with the absence of two of the biggest stars of wta. Actually the biggest three including Sharapova. Deal with it :lol:

brickhousesupporter
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:00 PM
congratulations you have replaced banned denise on my ignore list. i haven't posted a yahoo article, its well known that IW is the most attended tournament outside of the slams, if you want to play ignorant feel free :wavey:

I also explained the reasons why that claim can be made so in its totality the attendance record point is moot.

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:01 PM
on the men's side :rolls: stop talking as if IW is an individual event and not a joint event...have you seen the 50 people in the women's matches, 20 of whom are the personal team of each? :rolleyes:

No, on both. It's a mixed event so the stats reflect the combined attendance for the women and men matches.

You should be laughing at yourself because you just proved his/her point. The ATP is helping this tournament not the WTA.

Like I said earlier, ATP helps all the mixed events, not just IW... And that includes Miami.

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:01 PM
The WS are fine with this fine...:lol:
Yep! And that's what bothering the Williams haters the most.

I'm loving it!

Black Mamba.
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:02 PM
That was NOT his point. And, you should know that. If you don't know it, you are as stupid as he is.

The only stupid person in here is you. I know your reading comprehension skills aren't up to par. Maybe this will help.

http://learnandplay.com.hk/PrincessLearning_ReadingComprehension.jpg

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:03 PM
My favorite IW moment -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFDHvi7moVs :hearts::hearts::hearts:

Paneru
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:04 PM
The tournament is paying boatloads of money, and the tour, by way of the Williams sisters, is not living up to its end of the bargain.

As I said, they don't need the Williams sisters, but they want them. And if I was paying millions of dollars to the tour, and two of its top players didn't show up because they didn't feel like it, I'd also be frustrated.

Oh please!

They and the rest of you all know good and well why they "don't feel like it".
So, stop acting mindless like them being a now sho for the 8th straight year
is so suddenly some kind of surprise!

Yeah, the tournament doesn't need them(as you like to remind), and yet their has been
more media about the WS not playing, than those ladies actually playing.

Every year, the WS are the same and go about their business. Yet, it's the media
and tennis dorks that feel the need to talk about it every year.


Oh, and that tone from that tournament official and Scott is laughable! :lol:

-Sonic-
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:04 PM
If the attendance figures are higher than ever at IW this year, then IW doesn't need the Williams sisters. Fact.

If Serena and Venus can make millions by just turning up somewhere and smiling, then the Williams sisters don't need IW. Fact.


LIVE YOUR LIVES ALREADY! YOU MAKE ME WANT TO CRY!

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Big deal about the fine, money can't or shouldn't replace your self respect. Since IW doesn't need them (I really think that's a damn lie or why else make it mandatory if not to force them to play) and my girls don't want to play there, then what's the big deal? All this uproar about players that you don't need to make your tournament a success. I hope they continue to stand their grounds and never play there.
:worship::worship::worship:

Wtrain
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:06 PM
I don't know how many people have to say this over and over... but.... here it goes again,

It may be the most annually attended tournament out side of the grand slams... ok everyone still with me?..... But those people are attending the atp matches.....the ATP matches.

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:06 PM
I dont believe in these figures . I think its a marketing argument to make people think IW is succesfull for the WTA
They have no reason to do that. The attendance figures are the attendance figures. The end.

IW is the exception , EMPTY at early round , EMPTY at last round :lol:
Most WTA tournament have lots of empty seats at the beginning of the tournaments. And no, it's not empty during the last weekend. It's usually filled.

Look people - the ATP is carrying IW.
I could make the same assertion about Miami, and all other joint events.

LDVTennis
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Maybe this will help.

Translation: You are THAT stupid!

miffedmax
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Obviously, the smart thing to do is show up, play like utter shit, then bitch about how much you hate the place in the post-match press conference.

That why everybody whines wins.

schorsch
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:08 PM
I don't know how many people have to say this over and over... but.... here it goes again,

It may be the most annually attended tournament out side of the grand slams... ok everyone still with me?..... But those people are attending the atp matches.....the ATP matches.

So Miami is not a mixed event?

Lucemferre
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:09 PM
If the attendance figures are higher than ever at IW this year, then IW doesn't need the Williams sisters. Fact.

If Serena and Venus can make millions by just turning up somewhere and smiling, then the Williams sisters don't need IW. Fact.


LIVE YOUR LIVES ALREADY! YOU MAKE ME WANT TO CRY!

Close every thread about IW and WS. Please!! It makes me wanna barf. Same old racists+rabid haters+rational haters+indifferent people vs. Racists+crazy fanatics+ true fans+ objective proWS folks

:help::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::bs:

LDVTennis
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:09 PM
I don't know how many people have to say this over and over... but.... here it goes again,

It may be the most annually attended tournament out side of the grand slams... ok everyone still with me?..... But those people are attending the atp matches.....the ATP matches.

IW sells only one ticket for both the women's and the men's matches. Only one ticket. Separate tickets are not sold for the men's final and the women's final. Only one stadium ticket is sold for both matches.

As long as attendance is what it is, the tournament really doesn't care what matches the ticket buyer is watching.

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Most WTA tournament have lots of empty seats at the beginning of the tournaments. And no, it's not empty during the last weekend. It's usually filled.





Dont be blinded and biased ..

Fact is even 1 ticket is sold for WTA and ATP , the audience dont bother to attend WTA match . They wait for ATP 's one . ATP carried this event for 8 years now ..sorry thats only thruth .

Did you see the female quarters ? oh gosh i was so shocked , when at the same time mens's quarters were full ...

I never saw it in Miami during the quarters when the WS are there .

brickhousesupporter
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:13 PM
IW sells only one ticket for both the women's and the men's matches. Only one ticket. Separate tickets are not sold for the men's final and the women's final. Only one stadium ticket is sold for both matches.

As long as attendance is what it is, the tournament really doesn't care what matches the ticket buyer is watching.

If Miami had Indian Wells' facilities...Do you think Indian Wells would have more people atttending?

Also Indian Wells has to sell lots of tickets.......They got a mortage to pay. Miami is covered by Dade County.

Wtrain
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:14 PM
IW sells only one ticket for both the women's and the men's matches. Only one ticket. Separate tickets are not sold for the men's final and the women's final. Only one stadium ticket is sold for both matches.

As long as attendance is what it is, the tournament really doesn't care what matches the ticket buyer is watching.

Yes, however I'm a fan of the WTA, I want to see it grow and do well.

It does not look good for women's tennis when the stands are empty for them, and the stands for the men are full.

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:14 PM
YES! Anything that would have stopped the mistreatment. That would have shown they care to having them comeback. They just didn't think that the sisters would have the nerves to take a stand all these years.

Let's say they didn't want to stop play. During a change-over, the tournament director or chair umpire couldn't say something, anything to stop the mistreatment? If something worst had happened, they would just have stood by and do nothing as well? And that would have been okay with you?

And think goodness that the sisters will never go back regardless of paying the "consequences."
That's...totally impractical. Nobody was harming them, throwing things at them, etc. They were just loud, and yes, rude. The only person who could have ever really taken action was the umpire, and she did ask for quiet multiple times.

Does anyone remember Nadal's match against Grosjean? That was a far worse situation, where the crowd actually stopped play.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:14 PM
No, on both. It's a mixed event so the stats reflect the combined attendance for the women and men matches.



Like I said earlier, ATP helps all the mixed events, not just IW... And that includes Miami.

the stats reflect tickets sold :lol: not how much people actually sit inside the stadium...otherwise im sure you couldn't spout those stats against what many on here have seen with their eyes...

but keep believing that the women's matches are full because IW is well attended :rolls: if it gets you through the night doll :yeah:

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:16 PM
I don't know how many people have to say this over and over... but.... here it goes again,

It may be the most annually attended tournament out side of the grand slams... ok everyone still with me?..... But those people are attending the atp matches.....the ATP matches.
And that argument can be made about any ATP/WTA combined event. It shouldn't be unique to Indian Wells.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:16 PM
That's...totally impractical. Nobody was harming them, throwing things at them, etc. They were just loud, and yes, rude. The only person who could have ever really taken action was the umpire, and she did ask for quiet multiple times.

Does anyone remember Nadal's match against Grosjean? That was a far worse situation, where the crowd actually stopped play.

they actually had extra security in place for that match as a plan that the discussed...have you ever seen that for a match :lol: or are you one of those who doesn't know the full particulars and yet has an opinion on it

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:19 PM
they actually had extra security in place for that match as a plan that the discussed...have you ever seen that for a match :lol: or are you one of those who doesn't know the full particulars and yet has an opinion on it
I've seen both matches. The crowd in Paris went ape shit to a level not seen at IW.

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:20 PM
the stats reflect tickets sold :lol: not how much people actually sit inside the stadium...otherwise im sure you couldn't spout those stats against what many on here have seen with their eyes...

but keep believing that the women's matches are full because IW is well attended :rolls: if it gets you through the night doll :yeah:

Could you please quote my post where I talk about the women's matches being full at IW? :scratch:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:21 PM
And that argument can be made about any ATP/WTA combined event. It shouldn't be unique to Indian Wells.

Sorry the only "BIG" event you see EMPTY stadium during female quarters is IW ...

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:22 PM
I've seen both matches. The crowd in Paris went ape shit to a level not seen at IW.


In Paris ,The crowd didnt target her family , and no security was called ..

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:24 PM
Could you please quote my post where I talk about the women's matches being full at IW? :scratch:

well if you can't remember what you said :o


you said the stats reflect the attendance to men's and women's matches....:wavey: scroll up

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:26 PM
I've seen both matches. The crowd in Paris went ape shit to a level not seen at IW.

was the crowd aiming their hate at one family in particular in the stands?? were they aiming their hate towards one person on court??? ok thanks :wavey:


and yes WS in the Miami draw does make a difference to Miami since they are locals....they are well loved in Miami so there are people who go every year to watch tennis and to cheer them on specifically...:wavey:

terjw
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:28 PM
There are a couple of posters saying it is ridiculous that the sisters are getting fined Why? You don't take a stand over somethnig that happened 8 years ago and not expect there to be some backlash. They are being treated like the rest of the tour and they are just two of many players on tour just like everyone else. They are getting fined as per the rules. The promotional work they have to so is a joke Venus going to the ESPY how is that going to promote tennis and she might actually enjoy it. Serena promoting Doha that's a really giving her something she really dislikes. This is surposed to be punishment for not playing Indian wells. The WTA have kissed their arses again the only thing they did right was fining them.

They are not even getting fined though. They are very lucky that the rules don't specify a "Late Withdrawal fine" for any player missing a mandatory tournament. But everything that has happened is in accord with what the rules say will happen for any player missing a mandatory tournament.

As far as this "so called fine" - they simply haven't qualified for the full end of year bonus. It's not a fine and it's not theirs or any player's by right. The WTA quite rightly give the bonus as a reward to the players who do commit to and play all the tournaments they are requred to. Those players that do get it in full and the others who don't have it drastically reduced - and quite right too.

The sisters made their decision not to play at Indian Wells and for fans to bleat and whine about them losing their full bonus is just as ridiculous and laughable as when Maria last year whined about her fines when she missed Miami - and quite wrongly and irresponsibly lumped the bonus she was no longer entitled to with her fines and treated it all as the same thing.

My heart bleeds for these players who don't get their bonus.:rolleyes:

Black Mamba.
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:29 PM
Translation: You are THAT stupid!

:lol::lol: You're the same one that used an article to rebut Lucifer's point but it only supported their position. Pot meet kettle.

LindsayRulz
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:30 PM
well if you can't remember what you said :o


you said the stats reflect the attendance to men's and women's matches....:wavey: scroll up

yes, combined together. I didn't say that the women's matches at IW are full though.

schorsch
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:30 PM
well if you can't remember what you said :o


you said the stats reflect the attendance to men's and women's matches....:wavey: scroll up

What that meant is: every ticket bought to watch a WTA match is also going down in the ATP stats vice-versa as its a combined ticket. So, it reflects the success in selling the tickets, no matter what match the crowd will follow.

Legend1
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:31 PM
I think this is only fair. They knew the consequences and they have a duty to play there, whether somebody booed them 8 years ago or not. It isn't like it is going to hurt them financially. They're not gods, they're tennis players and should have the same commitment and dedication to the tour as any other player.

:worship:

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:32 PM
What that meant is: every ticket bought to watch a WTA match is also going down in the ATP stats vice-versa as its a combined ticket. So, it reflects the success in selling the tickets, no matter what match the crowd will follow.


Officially yes , ...The reality is another story ..

kiwifan
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:33 PM
It being taken from the year end bonus pool: does this mean that they just don't get a bonus or what?
Do they actually have to pay out of their existing assets?

Doesn't look like they actually have to pay anything, they just don't get year end bonuses, whoop de friggin' do...:lol:

Y'all can say whatever you like, I can see the empty seats. :devil:

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:34 PM
That's...totally impractical. Nobody was harming them, throwing things at them, etc. They were just loud, and yes, rude. The only person who could have ever really taken action was the umpire, and she did ask for quiet multiple times.

Does anyone remember Nadal's match against Grosjean? That was a far worse situation, where the crowd actually stopped play.
Saying to an unruly crowd that was mistreating players to show some respect would have been more than practical and just. I guess when it comes the sisters it is " totally impractical."

"The only person who could have ever really taken action was the umpire, and she did ask for quiet multiple times." You're really full of it, aren't you? :o

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:37 PM
They are not even getting fined though. They are very lucky that the rules don't specify a "Late Withdrawal fine" for any player missing a mandatory tournament. But everything that has happened is in accord with what the rules say will happen for any player missing a mandatory tournament.

As far as this "so called fine" - they simply haven't qualified for the full end of year bonus. It's not a fine and it's not theirs or any player's by right. The WTA quite rightly give the bonus as a reward to the players who do commit to and play all the tournaments they are requred to. Those players that do get it in full and the others who don't have it drastically reduced - and quite right too.

The sisters made their decision not to play at Indian Wells and for fans to bleat and whine about them losing their full bonus is just as ridiculous and laughable as when Maria last year whined about her fines when she missed Miami - and quite wrongly and irresponsibly lumped the bonus she was no longer entitled to with her fines and treated it all as the same thing.

My heart bleeds for these players who don't get their bonus.:rolleyes:


Your heart is not their hearts.... they are fine with this .

Andrew..
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Saying to an unruly crowd that was mistreating players to show some respect would have been more than practical and just. I guess when it comes the sisters it is " totally impractical."

"The only person who could have ever really taken action was the umpire, and she did ask for quiet multiple times." You're really full of it, don't you? :o
No. I have never, ever seen a tournament official come on court at a WTA event and yell at the crowd. It doesn't happen. You honestly think that yelling and the crowd and stopping play would have helped things? It would have made the situation absolutely explosive.

How am I full of it. Again, she was supposed to do what. "Quiet crowd!!!!111" I'm sure that would show them.

Bijoux0021
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:41 PM
[/B]


Your heart is not their hearts.... the are fine with this .
S/he was being sarcastic.

Human Nature
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:44 PM
S/he was being sarcastic.

Oh thank you . I dont see all the subtilities of the language yet .

fouc
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:45 PM
I really don't get some of these posts from sisters fans. You claim they're taking a stand and at the same time you're shocked that they aren't gonna get bonus for attending IW?? What kind of stand would that be, if there were no consequences? And why should they get a bonus, that is given for players, who attended IW, when their point is not to attend deliberately?

Miss Atomic Bomb
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:51 PM
Serena owns WTA anyways.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:51 PM
i love the WS but its nice to see the tour doing what they said they would do, kinda expected them to roll over as per usual

sammy01
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:51 PM
No. I have never, ever seen a tournament official come on court at a WTA event and yell at the crowd. It doesn't happen. You honestly think that yelling and the crowd and stopping play would have helped things? It would have made the situation absolutely explosive.

How am I full of it. Again, she was supposed to do what. "Quiet crowd!!!!111" I'm sure that would show them.

you're fightng a losing battle, SOME williams fans love the IW incident as in their minds it proves what they love to think, that the tennis establishment is against venus and serena and out to get them, yet what it actualy proves with larry scott bending the WTA rules and letting the williams sisters get away without playing, is just how much the tennis establishment bends over to accomdate the williams sisters.

an incident 8 years ago still gives them the fire to fight the williams sister fans crusade against the 'dirty' tennis establishment, yet turn a blind eye to the WTA bending its own rules to accomdate said sisters.

matty
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:52 PM
"stubborn sisters"??? How about "principled sisters" for standing up for what they think is right. Typical Fox crap....

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:58 PM
okay what are some people complaining about? the fine is part of the penalty and the promotional appearance is in lieu of a suspension. they're not getting suspended, isn't that the important thing? i'm confused as to what the issue is here.

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:01 AM
No. I have never, ever seen a tournament official come on court at a WTA event and yell at the crowd. It doesn't happen. You honestly think that yelling and the crowd and stopping play would have helped things? It would have made the situation absolutely explosive.

How am I full of it. Again, she was supposed to do what. "Quiet crowd!!!!111" I'm sure that would show them.
The bottom line is the sisters and their family were being mistreated and nothing was said and done to stop that mistreatment. A tournament official didn't have to stop play and start yelling in order to have a crowd show some respect.

What you've been doing is making all sorts of excuses to justify why nothing could have and should have been done. Yet people like you seem to feel that the sisters should be forced to go back for more. Guess what! It's never going to happen. :wavey:

CJ07
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:02 AM
Good one, IW is the most attended tennis event after the four slams. :lol:
ATP > > > > > WTA

The WTA tour is a joke right now. If it were women's only it'd do horrible.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:04 AM
I really don't get some of these posts from sisters fans. You claim they're taking a stand and at the same time you're shocked that they aren't gonna get bonus for attending IW?? What kind of stand would that be, if there were no consequences? And why should they get a bonus, that is given for players, who attended IW, when their point is not to attend deliberately?

:worship: ITA

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:06 AM
"stubborn sisters"??? How about "principled sisters" for standing up for what they think is right. Typical Fox crap....
EXACTLY!

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:12 AM
I really don't get some of these posts from sisters fans. You claim they're taking a stand and at the same time you're shocked that they aren't gonna get bonus for attending IW?? What kind of stand would that be, if there were no consequences? And why should they get a bonus, that is given for players, who attended IW, when their point is not to attend deliberately?
I agree. The fined make the sisters' stand even more worthwhile.

davidmario
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:13 AM
i think venus has done more than enough for the wta.
did she get bonuses for having the personality to name shahar peer during her winner's speech in dubai and then shake hands with the arabians? - I guess not. Larry Scott had peed himself.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:17 AM
I agree. The fine make the sisters' stand even more worthwhile.

It doesnt since even though people say they dont care about the consequences and would have abided by any rule not to come back...they did care about the consequences.
They were a major factor in forming this promotional event rule. They were among those who talked to the tour to not be directly suspended from Miami.
And Miami matters to them and they wanna play there even if that meanst taking away from their stance on IW :shrug:

fouc
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:18 AM
I agree. The fined make the sisters' stand even more worthwhile.

If you disagree to call the sisters 'stubborn', why do you agree to refer to it as a 'fine'. They won't pay a thing so it's hardly a fine. A lot of players won't get this bonus, and no one will claim they are being fined.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:25 AM
If you disagree to call the sisters 'stubborn', why do you agree to refer to it as a 'fine'. They won't pay a thing so it's hardly a fine. A lot of players won't get this bonus, and no one will claim they are being fined.

Because if it isn't a "fine" they don't have anything to bitch against the WTA about the WS either being the victims or the winners or weirdly enough sometimes even both at the same time. Simple as that.
In terms of that bonus pool - everything is clear. There are requirements to get this extra cash. The bonus pool is supposed to be a motivational tool to get the players to commit more, because there is more in it for them financially. Just like the top atp players only get it if they play all nine masters series events.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:27 AM
It doesnt since even though people say they dont care about the consequences and would have abided by any rule not to come back...they did care about the consequences.
They were a major factor in forming this promotional event rule. They were among those who talked to the tour to not be directly suspended from Miami.
And Miami matters to them and they wanna play there even if that meanst taking away from their stance on IW :shrug:

no they didn't. and hence Larry Scott came up with a way for them to avoid it becasue i'm sure he was aware of the "problems" (PR, etc)that would have ensued ahd they been suspended from Miami.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:31 AM
no they didn't. and hence Larry Scott came up with a way for them to avoid it becasue i'm sure he was aware of the "problems" (PR, etc)that would have ensued ahd they been suspended from Miami.

Yes, they did. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to talk to the tour to get this rule to be implemented.

In terms of PR. Sometimes even bad PR is good PR just in order to have more PR. They would have been just fine.

Human Nature
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:35 AM
It doesnt since even though people say they dont care about the consequences and would have abided by any rule not to come back...they did care about the consequences.
They were a major factor in forming this promotional event rule. They were among those who talked to the tour to not be directly suspended from Miami.
And Miami matters to them and they wanna play there even if that meanst taking away from their stance on IW :shrug:


How do you know that ? speculation ?

At least we have facts that they dont care since they havent gone back for 8 years .

And if you want speculation , i dont even think they would have returned to IW if they would have been suspended from Miami . They want to play Miami , and would have done anything not to be suspended except ....returning to IW ..IW is no way for them thats all..

danieln1
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:36 AM
Idiot larry... needs fired at once!

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:40 AM
Well they dont care about the money or the ranking points, that's true, so that doesnt bother them much. Ranking points are just numbers to them nowadays and they are not exactly in need of $$$.

They do care about Miami however and as the Tour officials said, they talked to them about how to handle this and the WS got what they wanted :shrug:

Sam L
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:40 AM
Whoever "wins" this tournament should pay the fine instead of the Williams sisters since they wouldn't have had that paycheck if the sisters turned up. They'd still be getting more than the runner-up and still be the best of the rest - which Indian Wells has come to be renowned for.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:44 AM
Yes, they did. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to talk to the tour to get this rule to be implemented.

In terms of PR. Sometimes even bad PR is good PR just in order to have more PR. They would have been just fine.

okay I am not following you. why shouldn't they talk to the tour if the tour is offering them an alternative to suspension. they have stated from day one that they would not play IW no matter what and I believe they would have stuck to that had the promotional clause not been put in place.

Human Nature
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:46 AM
Well they dont care about the money or the ranking points, that's true, but that doesnt bother them much. Ranking points are just numbers to them nowadays and they are not exactly in need of $$$.

They do care about Miami however and as the Tour officials said, they talked to them about how to handle this and the WS got what they wanted :shrug:


Yeah they care about Miami and they would have done everything to play one of their favorite tournament and not to be suspending except...returning to IW .

sammy01
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:46 AM
Whoever "wins" this tournament should pay the fine instead of the Williams sisters since they wouldn't have had that paycheck if the sisters turned up. They'd still be getting more than the runner-up and still be the best of the rest - which Indian Wells has come to be renowned for.

:o omg can people not read, the williams sisters haven't been fined, they just lose the chance of earning bonus pool money given at the end of year to players that participate in all the big tournaments. the rest of your post is pure ignorance.

LDVTennis
Mar 21st, 2009, 12:52 AM
If Miami had Indian Wells' facilities...Do you think Indian Wells would have more people atttending?

Also Indian Wells has to sell lots of tickets.......They got a mortage to pay. Miami is covered by Dade County.

Miami doesn't have IW's facility because of the limitations of that private-public partnership. Had Butch, the founder of the Miami event, had to raise the money himself, like Charlie did, the tournament might not have a stadium at all.

IW has certain advantages that Key Biscayne doesn't have. It's a fully-realized resort destination, great weather and all. The stadium is surrounded by luxury golf and spa resorts. These resorts were there before the stadium was ever built. In fact, the tournament used to be held at one of those resorts, the Hyatt Grand Champions.

Moreover, IW has a larger catchment area than that of Key Biscayne. It draws fans from Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego, even Phoenix. Even if the stadiums at IW and Key Biscayne were the same size, IW would still benefit from operating in a larger market.

mykarma
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:02 AM
What was the tournament going to do, stop play and scold the crowd?

Yeah, they have a right to never go back there again. But if they do that, they're breaking tour rules, and they have to pay the consequences.
The William sistas said after the incident that they would never go back there again so the WTA made a rule to attempt to force them to play there. If anyone was wrong it is the sneaky WTA. They could have created a rule that could have been satisfactory to all parties but no, they called themselves showing the sistas who was boss until Richard threaten to take there asses to court.

There is no way in hell that the sistas would allow the WTA to force them to play at IW. I believe they'd retire before playing at IW again.

brickhousesupporter
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:03 AM
Miami doesn't have IW's facility because of the limitations of that private-public partnership. Had Butch, the founder of the Miami event, had to raise the money himself, like Charlie did, the tournament might not have a stadium at all.

IW has certain advantages that Key Biscayne doesn't have. It's a fully-realized resort destination, great weather and all. The stadium is surrounded by luxury golf and spa resorts. These resorts were there before the stadium was ever built. In fact, the tournament used to be held at one of those resorts, the Hyatt Grand Champions.

Moreover, IW has a larger catchment area than that of Key Biscayne. It draws fans from Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego, even Phoenix. Even if the stadiums at IW and Key Biscayne were the same size, IW would still benefit from operating in a larger market.
Do you realize that with half the facilities Miami is just under Indian Wells in attendance. That make you argument very flimsy......BTW Miami can draw from Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Palm Beach, The keys, Naples and Tampa. So if you are arguing money Miami has just as much money if not more around it than Indian Wells.

terjw
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:04 AM
It doesnt since even though people say they dont care about the consequences and would have abided by any rule not to come back...they did care about the consequences.
They were a major factor in forming this promotional event rule. They were among those who talked to the tour to not be directly suspended from Miami.
And Miami matters to them and they wanna play there even if that meanst taking away from their stance on IW :shrug:

Yes - they were a major factor in forming the ACES promotional event rule. But the rules are for every player - not just the sisters - and so much better than the original half-baked suspension idea that was proposed. I mean making a tournament mandatory and then suspending a top player from a mandatory event was a really daft idea.

I've never actually agreed with this making tournaments mandatory anyway. If you make a tournament big enough in terms of prestige, ranking points, and money - the top players will play there without needing to say it's mandatory. I think there have actually been more top players dropping out of playing at Miami since it was made mandatory than before.

So although the discussion last year was primarily because of the sisters stance at IW - I think we have a much better set of rules for everyone as a result and more in line with the ATP which sensibly doesn't dish out suspensions as punishment..

~CANUCK~
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:04 AM
The William sistas said after the incident that they would never go back there again so the WTA made a rule to attempt to force them to play there. If anyone was wrong it is the sneaky WTA. They could have created a rule that could have been satisfactory to all parties but no, they called themselves showing the sistas who was boss until Richard threaten to take there asses to court.

There is no way in hell that the sistas would allow the WTA to force them to play at IW. I believe they'd retire before playing at IW again.

But this isn't a new rule. This rule has been in place for quite some time that if you miss big events you lose part of your bonus money.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:07 AM
Considering the large areas that IW can draw crowd from, as the Grafphilliac claims, its a pity that there are only a handful people in the stands during the women's matches.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:08 AM
I wish their clothing/racket/etc. sponsors would write a check to cover the "loss" for promo for them and for V & S to get a jab in at IW.

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:11 AM
The William sistas said after the incident that they would never go back there again so the WTA made a rule to attempt to force them to play there. If anyone was wrong it is the sneaky WTA. They could have created a rule that could have been satisfactory to all parties but no, they called themselves showing the sistas who was boss until Richard threaten to take there asses to court.

There is no way in hell that the sistas would allow the WTA to force them to play at IW. I believe they'd retire before playing at IW again.
No question about that.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:12 AM
Yeah they care about Miami and they would have done everything to play one of their favorite tournament and not to be suspending except...returning to IW .


okay I am not following you. why shouldn't they talk to the tour if the tour is offering them an alternative to suspension. they have stated from day one that they would not play IW no matter what and I believe they would have stuck to that had the promotional clause not been put in place.

The promotional clause was put in place mainly BECAUSE they talked to the tour about it and put pressure on them which ultimately means that they didn't accept the consequences. The tour KNEW they'd never get them to go play there again EVER. It's not debatable. If they were ever to go back there it would be on their own terms and not anybody elses.

The suspension rule in general if not viewed from the WS point of view could have been a good thing for the future of the tour creating something similar to the Master Series events by forcing the issue of players showing up. It's really not that hard to do for only four tournaments a year. I'd want them to be six really.

So, in other words, taking a stance is good for them as long as it helps them or doesn't affect them, once that isn't the case they are quick to go back and ask for special treatment which then would prove to have an effect on all players. They wouldn't care one bit about the credibility of the tour and its aspirations of creating something good for the future (for example after the WS are long gone), yet you are making them look like some sort of heroïnes. This whole idea shouldn't be only based on current top players, but on the ones to follow as well and this issue here ended up messing everything up.
As bad as an experience this was for them, it really shouldn't affect the other players and the majority of the fans/the future fans the way it does now.

And before you are going to say all the, why should they care and so on. They are top players. They are forming the sport with their influence and you'd expect them to do something positive for the tour as it is their responsibility. Those are BJK's words about top players.

In The Zone
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:12 AM
I can't be bothered to read this thread of 13 pages but; question for clarification. Since this is a fine from the "phantom" end of year pool of money, this is not really a fine, is it?

As a top 10 player (Serena being #2 at the end of 2008, Venus #6), they would need to play to meet the requirements of being a top 10 player which includes: 4 slams, 4 mandatories, 4 of 5 Premier 5, 2 700Ks, and 2 internationals. Since the Sisters will not be able to reach these requirements, they are losing part of the prize money. (The players get paid at the end of the year from the tour if they meet these requirements. The Sisters will not meet these requirements.)

Am I wrong? If I am to understand this, the Sisters are not being fined but just fulfilling their contract to a lower value.

Either way, they couldn't care.

terjw
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:14 AM
But this isn't a new rule. This rule has been in place for quite some time that if you miss big events you lose part of your bonus money.

Exactly.

Lindsayfan32
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:14 AM
I really don't get some of these posts from sisters fans. You claim they're taking a stand and at the same time you're shocked that they aren't gonna get bonus for attending IW?? What kind of stand would that be, if there were no consequences? And why should they get a bonus, that is given for players, who attended IW, when their point is not to attend deliberately?
Totally agree with you foucault. The Williams sisters would do the whole tour a favour if they stopped trying to run the tour. They have duty to the tour to play there and they didn't end of story. They are petty for keeping it up after eight years anyway and can anyone prove it was racially motovated? No they assume because they are black that was the reason they were booed. Could it have been the crowd were upset with what happened the day before? I think so. I think.

The sisters could've made it into some it wasn't as they were good at play the race card at the time of the incident and they are still playing a race card that may not have been there now. At the end of the day they have to suffer the comsequences like everyone else. To my understanding to avoid a fine they had to promote the Indian wells tournament with a 125 mile radius of Indian well and if they didn't the tour made it cleared they would be fined. They didn't do it as you would expect and they get the fine and no year end bonus money not that's going to hurt them.

LDVTennis
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:14 AM
Yes, however I'm a fan of the WTA, I want to see it grow and do well.

It does not look good for women's tennis when the stands are empty for them, and the stands for the men are full.

Well, then, prepare yourself to hear something quite dreadful.

Before the boycott, Venus and Serena often played to empty stadiums at IW, just like every other woman player today.

What's worse, one year (2001), Serena played a night match to no more than a few hundred people because the tournament organizers scheduled her match after the men's match. Typically, attendance at a women's night match is greater because attendance benefits from the match being a lead-in to the men's match. But, that year, they flipped the matches because ESPN wanted to show the men's night match during its broadcast window. After the men's match, everyone headed to the exits even though former champion Serena Williams was next up.

By the way, the men's match that night featured Andre Agassi vs. Leyton Hewitt.

In The Zone
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:16 AM
^^^ It doesn't matter if it was racially motivated or not. Would you want to return to a place where your family was treated horribly and terribly? Most people would say no. Venus and Sister are allowed to decide that. Because of that decision, they are being "fined" for it from the "phantom" bonus prize pool.

They do not seem to care. It is the "fans" who seem to care.

terjw
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM
I can't be bothered to read this thread of 13 pages but; question for clarification. Since this is a fine from the "phantom" end of year pool of money, this is not really a fine, is it?

As a top 10 player (Serena being #2 at the end of 2008, Venus #6), they would need to play to meet the requirements of being a top 10 player which includes: 4 slams, 4 mandatories, 4 of 5 Premier 5, 2 700Ks, and 2 internationals. Since the Sisters will not be able to reach these requirements, they are losing part of the prize money. (The players get paid at the end of the year from the tour if they meet these requirements. The Sisters will not meet these requirements.)

Am I wrong? If I am to understand this, the Sisters are not being fined but just fulfilling their contract to a lower value.

Either way, they couldn't care.

No - you are not wrong. This is it exactly.

mykarma
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM
My favorite IW moment -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFDHvi7moVs :hearts::hearts::hearts:
:worship::worship::worship:

miffedmax
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:25 AM
Indian Wells is doo-doo.

It was doo-doo before the boycott. It was doo-doo in years my favorites did well. It is doo-doo now. It will continue to be doo-doo long into the future.

Take it off the roadmap. Take it off the schedule. Miami is 10,000 X better and California has plenty of other tournaments.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:34 AM
I've never actually agreed with this making tournaments mandatory anyway. If you make a tournament big enough in terms of prestige, ranking points, and money - the top players will play there without needing to say it's mandatory. I think there have actually been more top players dropping out of playing at Miami since it was made mandatory than before.

So although the discussion last year was primarily because of the sisters stance at IW - I think we have a much better set of rules for everyone as a result and more in line with the ATP which sensibly doesn't dish out suspensions as punishment..

No, I don't think it works that well for the WTA Tour. The men attend all masters series events which are 9 (some dont play Paris Indoors, because they qualified for the year-end championships, but the last few years it hasn't really happened that much) and still play many 250/500. The tour actually doesnt have to be worried about them not showing up, they do and they show much more commitment on their own terms.

On the WTA Tour we have many more withdrawals from the big tournaments, weird stuff happening and so on. Prestige, ranking points and money is simply not enough for them to commit and form a great equivalent to the men's masters series events, which are simply awesome. I would love for those tournaments to be 6 instead of 4 even. And then to offer the same kind of coverage and publicity for it.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:38 AM
Totally agree with you foucault. The Williams sisters would do the whole tour a favour if they stopped trying to run the tour. They have duty to the tour to play there and they didn't end of story. They are petty for keeping it up after eight years anyway and can anyone prove it was racially motovated? No they assume because they are black that was the reason they were booed. Could it have been the crowd were upset with what happened the day before? I think so. I think.

The sisters could've made it into some it wasn't as they were good at play the race card at the time of the incident and they are still playing a race card that may not have been there now. At the end of the day they have to suffer the comsequences like everyone else. To my understanding to avoid a fine they had to promote the Indian wells tournament with a 125 mile radius of Indian well and if they didn't the tour made it cleared they would be fined. They didn't do it as you would expect and they get the fine and no year end bonus money not that's going to hurt them.

it's really eating you up isn't it. :lol::lol:

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:45 AM
It's the rules.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:49 AM
Totally agree with you foucault. The Williams sisters would do the whole tour a favour if they stopped trying to run the tour. They have duty to the tour to play there and they didn't end of story. They are petty for keeping it up after eight years anyway and can anyone prove it was racially motovated? No they assume because they are black that was the reason they were booed. Could it have been the crowd were upset with what happened the day before? I think so. I think.

The sisters could've made it into some it wasn't as they were good at play the race card at the time of the incident and they are still playing a race card that may not have been there now. At the end of the day they have to suffer the comsequences like everyone else. To my understanding to avoid a fine they had to promote the Indian wells tournament with a 125 mile radius of Indian well and if they didn't the tour made it cleared they would be fined. They didn't do it as you would expect and they get the fine and no year end bonus money not that's going to hurt them.

Wrong the WS should help run the tour just like all top players do. They have the knowledge/experience of years on the tour to boot and they have influence. I just dont like that it is only for their sakes in this case, because the rules will live on years after the WS retire from tennis.

And again no, they dont have to prove anything in terms of IW, they made it clear they're never going back there and it seems important to them, so they're going to do whatever they feel is right for them in terms of playing or not playing that tournament.
But what should not happen is this personal issue affecting other players/fans/future fans/a promising concept in terms of how they want to change the tour. This is the issue for me here.

And what's that about them receiving a fine, because they didnt do promotional work, did you even bother reading the thread? They can do this promo. event later on in the year. I dont think they will refuse to do this promo. event since they were the ones to try to enforce those rules.
This "fine" is only a loss of potential bonus money which you get from playing all the required events. Stop jumping to conclusions just because you dont like the WS :weirdo:

Golovinjured.
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:53 AM
The right decision :yeah: Finally some good done by Larry Scott & the WTA.

LDVTennis
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:53 AM
Do you realize that with half the facilities Miami is just under Indian Wells in attendance. That make you argument very flimsy......BTW Miami can draw from Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Palm Beach, The keys, Naples and Tampa. So if you are arguing money Miami has just as much money if not more around it than Indian Wells.

IW has just begun developing its facilities and its marketing. So, we'll have to wait and see...

As to the question of wealth, draw your own conclusions. Here is an interesting link --- http://wealth.mongabay.com/tables/100_income_zip_codes-20000.html. Where's the money? More high-ranking wealthy zipcodes in IW's catchment area than there are in all of Florida.

Slammer7
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:54 AM
The promotional clause was put in place mainly BECAUSE they talked to the tour about it and put pressure on them which ultimately means that they didn't accept the consequences. The tour KNEW they'd never get them to go play there again EVER. It's not debatable. If they were ever to go back there it would be on their own terms and not anybody elses.

The suspension rule in general if not viewed from the WS point of view could have been a good thing for the future of the tour creating something similar to the Master Series events by forcing the issue of players showing up. It's really not that hard to do for only four tournaments a year. I'd want them to be six really.

So, in other words, taking a stance is good for them as long as it helps them or doesn't affect them, once that isn't the case they are quick to go back and ask for special treatment which then would prove to have an effect on all players. They wouldn't care one bit about the credibility of the tour and its aspirations of creating something good for the future (for example after the WS are long gone), yet you are making them look like some sort of heroďnes. This whole idea shouldn't be only based on current top players, but on the ones to follow as well and this issue here ended up messing everything up.
As bad as an experience this was for them, it really shouldn't affect the other players and the majority of the fans/the future fans the way it does now.

And before you are going to say all the, why should they care and so on. They are top players. They are forming the sport with their influence and you'd expect them to do something positive for the tour as it is their responsibility. Those are BJK's words about top players.

Ok lets get this straight if you want a rule with teeth for everybody why not hand out and enormous fine say $500,000. No one and I mean no one except the Williams and Sharapova can pay that. Give me one example of any other player other than a Williams that would be refusing to play a tournament? You can barely keep these women from playing themselves into the ground (Myskina, Clijsters, Jankovic, Hantuchova, Hingis, Henin, Dokic) If you hand out a stiff fine, that would get all future players to play events that they may otherwise to play. You talk about special treatment this rule was created to punish them ,as the fine would have worked for everyone but them, so your argument about after they are long gone doesn't work. This rule was ill conceived and has become a joke because it was never practical, the solution for players not playing is to keep players from playing?:smash: The tour would be committing economic and P.R suicide. Suspending players for the first time in history for not committing a crime or violating a drug policy, but for refusing to play a tournament where they say they were abused racially. The media would crucify the WTA and this rule could never stand up in court. Do you honestly think the tour needs to threatened suspension to the Amelie Mauresmo's of the world or the Ana Ivanovic's or the Flavia Pannetta's? They made this rule for 3 people and that is illegal. I'll tell you this unless you have another potentially racially charged incident at a tournament in the future the tour won't even need this rule, I can't see an event that would make a top player not play a big tournament under threat of fine or loss of bonus money. So your claim of the greater good is moot.

BJK is a bit of a hypocrite in this instance, and it saddens me at times to here her less than understanding tone when she says they need to forgive and forget, whose to say the haven't? You don't have to put your face in front of the fist of someone that punched you to forgive them. They don't need to go back to a place were they don't feel safe or welcomed to have forgiven and moved on. Oh and lets not forget BJK has a financial stake in this matter. Where were these words from her 8 years ago before she had her money in the pot. There are towns in the U.S were black people were run out in race riots that don't have black people living in them 100 years later, I guess they should forgive and forget and go back. Larry Scott and this rules committee tried to punk the Williams and they got punked instead. :wavey:

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 01:55 AM
Wrong the WS should help run the tour just like all top players do. They have the knowledge of years on the tour to boot and they have influence. I just dont like that it is only for their sakes in this case, because the rules will live on years after the WS retire from tennis.

And again no, they dont have to prove anything in terms of IW, they made it clear they're never going back there and it seems important to them, so they're going to do whatever they feel is right for them in terms of playing or not playing that tournament.
But what should not happen is this personal issue affecting other players/fans/future fans/a promising concept in terms of how they want to change the tour. This is the issue for me here.

And what's that about them receiving a fine, because they didnt do promotional work, did you even bother reading the thread? They can do this promo. event later on in the year. I dont think they will refuse to do this promo. event since they were the ones to try to enforce those rules.
This "fine" is only a loss of potential bonus money which you get from playing all the required events. Stop jumping to conclusions just because you dont like the WS :whacko:

no, this clause does not only apply to them. if I'm not mistaken your girl just took advantage of it, for instance.

excellent posts though!(although I don't agree with certain points especially your version/interpretation of how the clause came about) but I have a feeling that it will be removed or modified once V & S retire if the mandatory tyhing is still in play by then.

Infiniti2001
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:01 AM
Wrong the WS should help run the tour just like all top players do. They have the knowledge/experience of years on the tour to boot and they have influence. I just dont like that it is only for their sakes in this case, because the rules will live on years after the WS retire from tennis.

And again no, they dont have to prove anything in terms of IW, they made it clear they're never going back there and it seems important to them, so they're going to do whatever they feel is right for them in terms of playing or not playing that tournament.
But what should not happen is this personal issue affecting other players/fans/future fans/a promising concept in terms of how they want to change the tour. This is the issue for me here.

And what's that about them receiving a fine, because they didnt do promotional work, did you even bother reading the thread? They can do this promo. event later on in the year. I dont think they will refuse to do this promo. event since they were the ones to try to enforce those rules.
This "fine" is only a loss of potential bonus money which you get from playing all the required events. Stop jumping to conclusions just because you dont like the WS :weirdo:

Are you okay schorsch? :eek:Anyway, well said. Meanwhile, why should the sisters cry over the bonus money?:shrug: I doubt they're as bothered by this as some here :help:

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:06 AM
no, this clause does not only apply to them. if I'm not mistaken your girl just took advantage of it, for instance.

good posts (although I don't agree with certain points especially your version/interpretation of how the clause came about) but I have a feeling that it will be removed or modified once V & S retire if the mandatory tyhing is still in play by then.

Oh come on Olivia, Maria is injured :rolleyes:. There is a difference in being injured and unable to play and not playing out of choice. It was wrong for the WS to be racially abused, yes, but creating a big scene like this is not going to stop racism is it? If anything they are fueling it. Like right now in this thread. IMO Larry Scott and the WTA made the correct decision. If anyone is too shallow to look at the wider picture I.E for the WTA to allow the WS' to do as they wish, then in turn they are punishing other players with fines. It's simply not fair and it's the rules. I mean this is all about discrimination, right? Well what about every other player on tour?

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:14 AM
Oh come on Olivia, Maria is injured :rolleyes:. There is a difference in being injured and unable to play and not playing out of choice.

It was wrong for the WS to be racially abused, yes, but creating a big scene like this is not going to stop racism is it? If anything they are fueling it. Like right now in this thread. IMO Larry Scott and the WTA made the correct decision. If anyone is too shallow to look at the wider picture I.E for the WTA to allow the WS' to do as they wish, then in turn they are punishing other players with fines. It's simply not fair and it's the rules. I mean this is all about discrimination, right? Well what about every other player on tour?

ugh. how are they fueling racism by prtotesting the treatment reacial or otherwise they receieved that day. are you serious? so as the agrrieved, they are responsible for the behaviour and attitudeds of others?

and again the clause appplies to every player on tour. as I mentioned, if your girl was too injured to play then she shouldn't have played at all.

schorsch
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:15 AM
no, this clause does not only apply to them. if I'm not mistaken your girl just took advantage of it, for instance.

excellent posts though!(although I don't agree with certain points especially your version/interpretation of how the clause came about) but I have a feeling that it will be removed or modified once V & S retire if the mandatory tyhing is still in play by then.

See, I'm a Masha fan and in another thread I already said, that I would hate for her to be able to use that clause and then it happened.

Don't get me wrong I loved the fact she went and tested her shoulder and even doing so playing with one of my other favourite players :hearts: But that's me the Maria fan, solely viewing that in isolation of everything else. It's been so long without having her on tour, so obviously I was very excited about it.

But once I remove myself from only that view and try to look at it as a tennis/wta fan I can't put all that above what in my opinion would be a good thing for the tour not to have that clause and how this clause mostly helps top players over the rest of the tour which sort of saddens me. That clause should only help the tournaments by having players who can't control their withdrawal promoting the event, so that they get some additional promotion over the usual "so many players withdrew" articles and it keeps the sponsors happy.
I want the tour to improve and give itself every possible chance to raise their profile and level of competition.
I look at the Masters Series events and find myself drooling at the thought of having something similar on the WTA Tour, I just think it's harder to make the WTA players see, create and commit to that than the men. They sort of need to be pushed, imo :shrug:

Black Mamba.
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:16 AM
Oh come on Olivia, Maria is injured :rolleyes:. There is a difference in being injured and unable to play and not playing out of choice. It was wrong for the WS to be racially abused, yes, but creating a big scene like this is not going to stop racism is it? If anything they are fueling it. Like right now in this thread. IMO Larry Scott and the WTA made the correct decision. If anyone is too shallow to look at the wider picture I.E for the WTA to allow the WS' to do as they wish, then in turn they are punishing other players with fines. It's simply not fair and it's the rules. I mean this is all about discrimination, right? Well what about every other player on tour?

They haven't played the tournament since 01. How are they making a scene? Do you see them walking around giving interviews bashing IW? They've made their peace with the tournament and they've decided not to play.

pwayne
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:17 AM
Will be an interesting press conference for the WS in Key Biscayne answering the IW fine

Ryan
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:17 AM
Sorry, but rules are rules, and they apply to everyone. It's only the bonus pool anyway...poor rich millionaires! I'm sure Venus, Serena and Maria will sleep fine at night.

aussie_fan
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:19 AM
Compltely deserved, they are missing a major tournament of the WTA Tour, and the Williams sisters are two big products of the tour, they should be at these mandatory events if they aren't injuried. Not like they'll care about the money anyway.

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:19 AM
ugh. how are they fueling racism by prtoesting the treatment (and let's leave out the racial component since many of you belittle it)they receieved that day. are you serious?

and again the clause appplies to every player on tour. as I mentioned, if your girl was too injured to play then she shouldn't have played at all.

Because they are making a huge deal of it! That was one time and it could have happened anywhere. Racism is one thing I hate the most, but drama queens is another. Angela Haynes, an African American still played IW. James Blake another African American played IW :shrug:. Clearly the problem is none existent right now and it can happen anywhere, why don't they just boycott every tournament :shrug:. Also it was 'that bad' for Maria, because she has also withdrawn from Miami.

terjw
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:23 AM
No, I don't think it works that well for the WTA Tour. The men attend all masters series events which are 9 (some dont play Paris Indoors, because they qualified for the year-end championships, but the last few years it hasn't really happened that much) and still play many 250/500. The tour actually doesnt have to be worried about them not showing up, they do and they show much more commitment on their own terms.

On the WTA Tour we have many more withdrawals from the big tournaments, weird stuff happening and so on. Prestige, ranking points and money is simply not enough for them to commit and form a great equivalent to the men's masters series events, which are simply awesome. I would love for those tournaments to be 6 instead of 4 even. And then to offer the same kind of coverage and publicity for it.

Well - this is the first year of the roadmap. I think we need to see just see how this works this year with the rules as they are before dismising it all as not working. We have the four big premier mandatory tournaments now with IW, Beijing and Madrid having the same ranking points as Miami now - and Miami pretty well gets nearly all the top players - more so before it was mandatory. And we have the 4 of 5 premier tournaments the top players must commit to we can see what happens.

The carrott is the ranking points and the prize money and the bonus pool. The stick is the WTA says so and doing a promotional event if you don't. That's far more carrott than stick which I think is right. So let's just see what happens this year before dismissing the current rules as inadequate for the WTA.

If the only notable absence turns out to be the sisters at IW - then the only thing that beefing up the penalties with suspensions will do is to have fewer top players (Venus & Serena) at Miami because rightly or wrongly the sisters aren't changing their minds whatever the rules say.

Black Mamba.
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:26 AM
Because they are making a huge deal of it! That was one time and it could have happened anywhere. Racism is one thing I hate the most, but drama queens is another. Angela Haynes, an African American still played IW. James Blake another African American played IW :shrug:. Clearly the problem is none existent right now and it can happen anywhere, why don't they just boycott every tournament :shrug:. Also it was 'that bad' for Maria, because she has also withdrawn from Miami.

:lol::lol::lol:


Since when are African Americans a monolithic group? Just because something happens to one doesn't mean that every Black player is going to jump on the bandwagon and boycott. The WS have never asked anyone to join them in their boycott. They did what was best for them.

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:26 AM
They haven't played the tournament since 01. How are they making a scene? Do you see them walking around giving interviews bashing IW? They've made their peace with the tournament and they've decided not to play.

It's still causing quite a stir here :shrug:

Slammer7
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:27 AM
Sorry, but rules are rules, and they apply to everyone. It's only the bonus pool anyway...poor rich millionaires! I'm sure Venus, Serena and Maria will sleep fine at night.

This rule was created to force them to play this one tournament. Name me another instance that you would need to suspend any other woman on this entire tour to make them play an event? I'll give you an analogy. If you blow Mr. X blows his nose in an annoying way and I don't like it and I get a law passed that makes the way he blows his nose a criminal offence and he blows his nose in the street and a policeman arrests him for breaking the law is that fair? You can't create a law to punish 1 person and you can't enact a rule that is wholly unnecessary for 99.99999999% of the entire tour. The WTA didn't need this rule if it was for 99.99999999% of the tour, this rule was created to punish the 3 stars. This rule won't even need to exist in 10 years when the Williams are retired. You can't create a rule for 3 people then claim "hey it's the rule for everybody"

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:27 AM
:lol::lol::lol:


Since when are African Americans a monolithic group? Just because something happens to one doesn't mean that every Black player is going to jump on the bandwagon and boycott. The WS have never asked anyone to join them in their boycott. They did what was best for them.

Exactly my point about tournaments :worship:
Just because it happened one year does not mean it will happen every year.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:33 AM
Because they are making a huge deal of it! That was one time and it could have happened anywhere. Racism is one thing I hate the most, but drama queens is another. Angela Haynes, an African American still played IW. James Blake another African American played IW :shrug:. Clearly the problem is none existent right now and it can happen anywhere, why don't they just boycott every tournament :shrug:. Also it was 'that bad' for Maria, because she has also withdrawn from Miami.

how are they making a huge deal of it, you still ahven't explained this? they ahve not played this tournament in 8 years and have not asked anyone to join in their "boycott." they are protesting what they believe was a racist situation TOWARDS THEM, it is something personal to them and they only speak of it when asked about it. so how are they being dramaqueens about it? who are you, me, we to put a time limit on their pain or to even qualify it or compare it?

your girl is just an axample. it could be brie whitehead or whatever that chicks' name is. that fact of the matter is that the promotional option is available to her as well.

Ryan
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:37 AM
This rule was created to force them to play this one tournament. Name me another instance that you would need to suspend any other woman on this entire tour to make them play an event? I'll give you an analogy. If you blow Mr. X blows his nose in an annoying way and I don't like it and I get a law passed that makes the way he blows his nose a criminal offence and he blows his nose in the street and a policeman arrests him for breaking the law is that fair? You can't create a law to punish 1 person and you can't enact a rule that is wholly unnecessary for 99.99999999% of the entire tour. The WTA didn't need this rule if it was for 99.99999999% of the tour, this rule was created to punish the 3 stars. This rule won't even need to exist in 10 years when the Williams are retired. You can't create a rule for 3 people then claim "hey it's the rule for everybody"



You're so full of crap. This rule was not created to punish them - do you have any proof?

Slammer7
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:40 AM
Exactly my point about tournaments :worship:
Just because it happened one year does not mean it will happen every year.

But it happen to them. They have the right not to play because they were mistreated. Just because you got food poisoning at a restaurant doesn't mean I can't eat there if I want to, but that doesn't mean I don't have a valid reason not to eat there ever again. If Andy Ram never wants to play in Sweden again after 200 protesters tried to knock down the door of the arena to do God knows what harm to him and his Davis Cup teammates, he has every right and no one would force him to play. Now would you say he was being a drama king if another Israeli had no problem playing in Sweden after that? All black people don't have allegiance to each other, but I can tell you this, the players you listed before most likely think about what happened to the Williams and probably wouldn't be shocked if something similar ever happened to them.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:41 AM
It's still causing quite a stir here :shrug:

whose fault is that? obviously since they aren't here (or wherever you're referring to), not theirs. :lol:

Lindsayfan32
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:42 AM
it's really eating you up isn't it. :lol::lol:
Not at all. It's eating the Williams sister's fans more. If this wasn't such a big deal then it would've been let go a long time ago. The sisters fans think they are so hard done by and I don't buy into the Racially motovated crap anyway. They were playing it for all it was worth so people would pitty them and they've kept it up for the last 8 years. They had the choice not play now they don't so they need to put up and shut up and so do their fans. The WTA run the tour not the Williams sisters.

Slammer7
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:45 AM
You're so full of crap. This rule was not created to punish them - do you have any proof?

That's your response? What about the rest of what I said? Who else does the tour need to suspend to get them to play tournaments? I asked that question before too. Name me 1 player that they can't get to play if the don't threaten to suspend them. The tour has only handed out a couple of fines of over $100,000 in the last 5 years and that was to Serena and Sharapova. If you can site me anyone else that has payed a $300,000 or more fine in the last 10 years I will stand corrected.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:46 AM
:yawn:

Who really cares :shrug: I mean the sisters had to know it was coming. LS was getting castrated in the press, and now he's running around chasing his balls- the one's V and S have been smackin' around. :lol:

I wonder if ANY of those non slam winning chicks left in the draw would trade ALL of the past present and future appearances at IW for ONE of the slams the WSs hold.

History will Judge the sisters kindly.

Ciarán
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:46 AM
how are they making a huge deal of it, you still ahven't explained this? they ahve not played this tournament in 8 years and have not asked anyone to join in their "boycott." they are protesting what they believe was a racist situation TOWARDS THEM, it is something personal to them and they only speak of it when asked about it. so how are they being dramaqueens about it? who are you, me, we to put a time limit on their pain or to even qualify it or compare it?

your girl is just an axample. it could be brie whitehead or whatever that chicks' name is. that fact of the matter is that the promotional option is available to her as well.

Big deal, drama queens by boycotting the tournament :smash:. Pain? OMG :rolleyes:. You know I experience homophobia like every day of my life. Every fucking day and you know what I do? I lift my head and I get on with it. I don't boycott school, I don't boycott leaving the house :shrug:. I don't sit back and feel sorry for myself :o. They deserve to pay every penny of that fine, because they are breaking the rules and the exact same goes for Maria, Nastya, Nicole, Anna and Tamira; so don't accuse me of being racist or bias :o. The Williams are far from being some sort of God and are not superior to every other player, I don't care how many titles they win or how many millions of dolalrs they have. They are still players on the WTA tour just like every other player ranked from 1-1300 and they should follow the rules irregardless situations in the past, just like every other player must.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:47 AM
Not at all. It's eating the Williams sister's fans more. If this wasn't such a big deal then it would've been let go a long time ago. The sisters fans think they are so hard done by and I don't buy into the Racially motovated crap anyway. They were playing it for all it was worth so people would pitty them and they've kept it up for the last 8 years. They had the choice not play now they don't so they need to put up and shut up and so do their fans. The WTA run the tour not the Williams sisters.

you're lying.

and I'm sure as you must have figured out by now, they really couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks about them. they were seeking pity you say? that's a new one.

Caillou
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM
wtf are people saying its not a fine...it is. had they not done this, they would have received that bonus money..therefore since they are not, technically they are being fined. just because money isn't being taken from their hands doesn't mean you can't call it a fine.

Volcana
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM
I don't buy into the Racially motovated crap anyway.Of course not. It's easy to pinpoint when race stopped being an issue in the USA. Way before the Civil War, since a hundred years before that, people were saying 'I don't buy into the Racially motovated crap anyway.'The WTA run the tour not the Williams sisters.Television ad revenue makes the WTA, like virtually all pro sports. The Williams sisters have been, for a decade, the key to that economic engine. The Williams sisters don't run the WTA. They let hirelings do that. The Williams sisters make the WTA. And when they're gone, the WTA will re-trench, and go on.

It's rather like when Chris Evert retired. The WTA lost a LOT of luster. Despite still having the greatest player of all time, in her prime, still playing. But they moved on, and eventually, they found new, crowd-friendly stars.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:54 AM
... Every fucking day and you know what I do? I lift my head and I get on with it. I don't boycott school, I don't boycott leaving the house :shrug:...

:lol: imagine if Rosa Parks said that. :rolleyes: The point is, you COULD boycott if you CHOSE to, and anybody with half a bit of integrity wouldn't JUDGE you for doing so.

The Williams are... are not superior to every other player...

...Uh..., yes. Yes they are.

Seyz
Mar 21st, 2009, 02:57 AM
Well as much as i like the William sisters, what the hell is "bonus money" ? Can someone clarify? is it like AIG where you get it regardless of performance, or is it meant to be given for high performance?

Wtrain
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:00 AM
:lol: imagine if Rosa Parks said that. :rolleyes: The point is, you COULD boycott if you CHOSE to, and anybody with half a bit of integrity wouldn't JUDGE you for doing so.



...Uh..., yes. Yes they are.

Didn't you know Rosa Parks should have just shut up and followed the rules... who did she think she was?


:lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:01 AM
Big deal, drama queens by boycotting the tournament :smash:. Pain? OMG :rolleyes:. You know I experience homophobia like every day of my life. Every fucking day and you know what I do? I lift my head and I get on with it. I don't boycott school, I don't boycott leaving the house :shrug:. I don't sit back and feel sorry for myself :o. They deserve to pay every penny of that fine, because they are breaking the rules and the exact same goes for Maria, Nastya, Nicole, Anna and Tamira; so don't accuse me of being racist or bias :o. The Williams are far from being some sort of God and are not superior to every other player, I don't care how many titles they win or how many millions of dolalrs they have. They are still players on the WTA tour just like every other player ranked from 1-1300 and they should follow the rules irregardless situations in the past, just like every other player must.


yes pain? they don't have feelings? they're not human? :confused:

that's how you choose to handle it...good for you. they chose what works best for them. and by boycotting school, work etc who are you hurting? they have a choice, you don't ( I mean yes you do but you're doing what's best for you by not doing so as are they) :shrug:

and let me restate I do not disagree with the "fine". i think they should pay it.

Harvs
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:02 AM
they wont give a shit. they knew this would happen... as stupid as i think these roadmap rules are... they are official rules in the end.

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:02 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/sports/tennis/20tennis.html?ref=tennis

No Changing the Williams Sisters’ Minds

By PAUL OBERJUERGE
Published: March 19, 2009

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. — Erma Casey and Phyliss Carelock sat in $50 seats near the top of the stadium court at the Indian Wells Tennis Garden on a bright afternoon. They conceded that it seemed like a high tariff to perch a half-dozen rows from the rim of the arena. “But it would have been 30 percent more without my senior citizen’s discount,” Casey confided.

Like most of the fans at the BNP Paribas Open in the desert near Palm Springs, Casey and Carelock would have preferred to see Venus or Serena Williams playing in the women’s quarterfinals Thursday on the court below. But they know the drill.

Venus and Serena don’t do Indian Wells.

“I wish they were here,” said Casey, an African-American from Los Angeles. “But I still come because I love tennis.”

The most famous boycott in modern tennis goes on. The Williams sisters have not returned here since a celebrated incident in 2001. Venus, citing injury, pulled out of a semifinal match against Serena four minutes before it was scheduled to begin. The crowd booed that night and booed Serena again in the final. Their father, Richard, alleged racist taunts from the crowd. Father and daughters vowed never to return.

They have lived up to that promise, even as new WTA rules punish players who skip one of the tour’s so-called mandatory events. The Williams sisters are sustaining injury to their world rankings, losing money from the bonus pool and must perform a day of tennis-related activity within 125 miles of Indian Wells — or face a two-week suspension and a $75,000 fine.

They remain undeterred. And Indian Wells, perhaps the most important tournament in the world that isn’t a Grand Slam, goes on without them.

“Something is missing,” said Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova, a 17-year-old semifinalist from Russia. “With them, it’s more of a show and there is more interest and a lot of big fights and good matches.”

The tournament director, Steve Simon, makes certain that the Williams sisters, currently ranked Nos. 1 (Serena) and 5 (Venus) in the world, know they are welcome back at any time.

“We’ve made it clearly known, and will continue to, that we would love to have the girls back and we think the fans would love to have them back as well. In fact, we know they do,” Simon said. “We will continue to make sure that message is with them and, hopefully, there will be a day they decide they want to play.”

Not that anyone holds out much hope for a rapprochement as Venus, 28, and Serena, 27, approach the twilight of their careers. Venus Williams this month told the news media in New York that she did not anticipate returning to Indian Wells.

Indian Wells officials will not grovel, Simon said, to bring them back. “I’ve never begged or pleaded for any player to be here,” he said. “I want people to play here because they feel good about being here.”

Until 2001, Indian Wells and the Williams Sisters were good together. The tournament extended wild cards to the sisters when they were teenage prodigies living in the Los Angeles suburb of Compton. “Serena won twice and Venus had some great successes here, too,” said Simon, who has been with the tournament for two decades. “This was a good tournament for them.”

Seventeen of the world’s top-20 ranked women played here this year, Simon said, the exceptions being the Williams sisters and the injured Maria Sharapova. “No one player makes the difference between success and failure,” Simon said, citing record attendance of 331,000 in 2008 and the potential for similar numbers this year, “even in this economy.”

But the women’s competition has been less than scintillating. Jelena Jankovic and Elena Dementieva crashed out early. The top-seeded Dinara Safina, two victories away from supplanting Serena Williams as the world No. 1, melted down against the 19-year-old Victoria Azarenka in the quarterfinals.

The semifinalists are the defending champion, Ana Ivanovic, and the lesser-known Vera Zvonareva, Azarenka and Pavlyuchenkova.

But the tournament steams ahead, buoyed by keen competition on the men’s side. Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Juan Martín del Potro and Andy Roddick, six of the top seven seeds, reached the final eight.

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:07 AM
...;15232027']they wont give a shit. they knew this would happen... as stupid as i think these roadmap rules are... they are official rules in the end.

exactly.

Janet
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:09 AM
For the williams sister they don't care how much the CEO will fine them for these girls is not about the money, button line is the tourament needs them williams don't need Indian Wells, because every year they keep on talking about their absent and plus through the year as will, so CEO & Indian wells needs to just give it up and move on.....Because Venus & Serena has

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:10 AM
:yawn:

Who really cares :shrug: I mean the sisters had to know it was coming. LS was getting castrated in the press, and now he's running around chasing his balls- the one's V and S have been smackin' around. :lol:

I wonder if ANY of those non slam winning chicks left in the draw would trade ALL of the past present and future appearances at IW for ONE of the slams the WSs hold.

History will Judge the sisters kindly.


hilarious! :lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:11 AM
For the williams sister they don't care how much the CEO will fine them for these girls is not about the money, button line is the tourament needs them williams don't need Indian Wells, because every year they keep on talking about their absent and plus through the year as will, so CEO & Indian wells needs to just give it up and move on.....Because Venus & Serena has

...and fans/non-fans....

Bijoux0021
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:17 AM
Didn't you know Rosa Parks should have just shut up and followed the rules... who did she think she was?


:lol:
Yep, Rosa Parks was very "stubborn" for refusing to give up her seat on that bus to that white man. How dared she? Who did she think she was? :lol:

Bounty Hunter
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:23 AM
Ok, it's even.... move on... :lol::lol:

BlameSerena
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:24 AM
BULL FUCKING SHIT.
I hope Serena leaves a tip.
Larry Scott will never force them to do anything they don't want to do.
This just makes him look a little better in the eyes of those who say V&S are running things.

Lindsayfan32
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:25 AM
you're lying.

and I'm sure as you must have figured out by now, they really couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks about them. they were seeking pity you say? that's a new one.
It really doesn't bother me. Prove to me there were racial slurs in involved? It was a sympathy grab. I don't even believe Venus wasi injured and if she was then she shouldn't have pulled out of the match ten minutes before it was due to start with no explaination. If she had gone out on the court like most players do when this kind of thing happens she could've done a good pr thing for the tournament and herself and stopped this ever happening. Shall we start the pitty party for them as this happens with Williams sisters fan every time something is said or done against them. If you want to have the pitty party for them go ahead but they don't get any sympathy from me they knew what was coming.

BlameSerena
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:30 AM
It really doesn't bother me. Prove to me there were racial slurs in involved? It was a sympathy grab. I don't even believe Venus wasi injured and if she was then she shouldn't have pulled out of the match ten minutes before it was due to start with no explaination. If she had gone out on the court like most players do when this kind of thing happens she could've done a good pr thing for the tournament and herself and stopped this ever happening. Shall we start the pitty party for them as this happens with Williams sisters fan every time something is said or done against them. If you want to have the pitty party for them go ahead but they don't get any sympathy from me they knew what was coming.

Just like no one can prove that their were racial slurs, etc., no one can prove that there were not racial slurs/forms of racism. Why would Richard need to lie about that? And Venus was injured. As far as why that didn't get communicated to the fans in a timely manner? Who knows...

Basically this is how I see it: http://craighickmanontennis.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-final-word.html

HRHoliviasmith
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:32 AM
It really doesn't bother me. Prove to me there were racial slurs in involved? It was a sympathy grab. I don't even believe Venus wasi injured and if she was then she shouldn't have pulled out of the match ten minutes before it was due to start with no explaination. If she had gone out on the court like most players do when this kind of thing happens she could've done a good pr thing for the tournament and herself and stopped this ever happening. Shall we start the pitty party for them as this happens with Williams sisters fan every time something is said or done against them. If you want to have the pitty party for them go ahead but [B]they don't get any sympathy from me they knew what was coming.

:lol: :lol: oh well. i look forward to reading about how devastated they are about this.

Andrew..
Mar 21st, 2009, 03:35 AM
Just like no one can prove that their were racial slurs, etc., no one can prove that there were not racial slurs/forms of racism. Why would Richard need to lie about that? And Venus was injured. As far as why that didn't get communicated to the fans in a timely manner? Who knows...

Basically this is how I see it: http://craighickmanontennis.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-final-word.html
I've never bought into the racial slurs. He was the ONLY person who reported anything like that. Venus' response when asked about it directly after the tournament wasn't convincing. It's Richard. You're going to hear some crazy shit coming from him, especially back when the entire Williams clan had the "us against the world" mentality.

But that's neither here nor there. They were treated very poorly, and I do believe Venus was injured. If they were truly fixing there matches, there would have been better ways of doing it.