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View Full Version : OMG..CBS showing Monica vs. Capriati 1991


nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:41 PM
i haven't seen any of Monica's glory day matches so this is great

KoOlMaNsEaN
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:43 PM
omg i cant believe it

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:46 PM
I wish they showed that match here, I never saw it and I am really curious after everything I heard about it!

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:47 PM
Yeah, I'm watching it too.

What comes to mind:

1. Monica's horrible hair!

2. How skinny those two are.

3. I'm going to be watching very closely to see just how Monica's game changed (I've never been convinced it really did: just that the overall WTA players got better).

veryborednow
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:49 PM
It's a great match:) And Jen can serve SO well!

Eurosport are showing the OZ final 2002 - still pretty good, but I wish I'd see the 1991 match again

Crazy Canuck
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:52 PM
I'm glad to see them showing some oldie womens tennis - they have shown quite abit of mens so far.

I'd say go jenn, but well :p

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:53 PM
Rebecca,

You, the commentators and every one at that stadium in 1991!

Monica was not the "popular one" in those days.

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:54 PM
I don't think it was Monica's best match tennis-wise, but was sure as heck dramatic, it showed what was so great about her then: her mental toughness. She plays some amazing points in the third set when the chips were down.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:55 PM
Well it isn't that I dont like Monica, because I certaintly do :D

But I am more partial to Jenn usually :o

Mind you I didnt follow back then, so I might have not liked Jenn then :p

I guess Monica wasn't the fave cause she was so dominent, eh?

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 04:59 PM
Jen was "America's sweetheart" teenage wonder. Before she even played a match, back in 1990 when she was only 13, the hype was enormous, which she justified by reaching the final of her very first tournament. In 1991, she was just 15, but many people felt she was ready to win her first major. She had beaten Monica for the first time earlier that summer, and I think every person in the crowd was rooting for her (except for the seles family!) (And me at home!)

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:05 PM
the crowd was horribe towards monica in the final(saw that, after 24 hours I was over my depression)!

Doublebackhand
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:07 PM
i remembered i was rooting for jcap back then cos martina was already in the final and no way she would beat monica. indeed it was proven true.

alton8401
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:07 PM
WOW I AM WATCHING THE MATCH RIGHTNOW AND I AM REALLY ENJOYING THIS. AND THE ONE THING I NOTICE IS THERE SERVICE MOTION LOOKED SO MUCH BETTER THEN IT DOES TODAY.

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:07 PM
becca monica was only second seed because of some weird ranking system(yeah even as a steffi fan I can say she was not number 1 at any point that year) so officially she was not dominant!

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:09 PM
Monica moved so good and her angles were awesome. She just a lot more fluid back then.

alton8401
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:10 PM
I SEE WE HAVE BUTTER TO BLAME FROM SELES WEIGHT GAIN. I

JUST HEARD SHE LIKES IT ON EVERYTHING. MONICA JUST SAY NO

TO THE BUTTER.

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:11 PM
It wasn't so much that she was dominant I believe.. as Irma says Steffi was actually still #1. Partly it was that she was Yugoslavian, and so was popular nowhere for her nationality. Her English was still funny, and also she had come up so quickly to the top, the crowds hadn't really known her. Also she got tremendously bad publicity for missing Wimbledon 1991. She didn't handle the situation very well, and the media went wild, painting a very inaccurate picture of her. She had real bad press back then.

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:12 PM
I seem to remember that she was pretty thin those days!

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:12 PM
Yeah she was more fluid -- hadn't had the injury problems she's had.
Also (and I think this was key) she hardly ever made unforced errors. (I don't remember about this match specifically.) She just didn't give you any free points, a bit like Lleyton Hewitt today (though she was more aggressive.)

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:13 PM
Nysaga,

That's because she was thinner and naturally gifted. You heard Mary Carillo even say then that Seles was not serious about weight training and exercise and diet and that "soon she would have to".

Hmmm, if only Monica had gotten serious about that stuff early on. Even with the stabbing maybe her results post 1995 would have been better...

Doublebackhand
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:14 PM
so maybe monica hasnt heard of 'i can't believe this is not butter'? it tastes just as good!!!

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:15 PM
And the sad thing, folks, was that she was only 17 years old at this time -- younger than Clisters or Dokic or Daniela, even younger than a newcomer like Zvonarova... how much more would she have grown into her game?? We'll never know.

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:18 PM
This match is a lot more exciting and interesting than the whole 2002 tournament so far ...lol

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:18 PM
Mishar,

Maybe, maybe not. Look at Hingis after dominating 1997. She never got better, the tour did.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:19 PM
Nysaga,

I'd still rather see the Williams sisters.

These girls in 1991, no muscles, a 100mph serve is considered great...

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by mishar
And the sad thing, folks, was that she was only 17 years old at this time -- younger than Clisters or Dokic or Daniela, even younger than a newcomer like Zvonarova... how much more would she have grown into her game?? We'll never know.

you make it sound like she was stabbed at 17..lol At least Monica enjoyed 1 1/2 more years of dominance.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:23 PM
What? Monica has a brother?!!

I thought she was an only child!

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:23 PM
and in 92 and 93(till april of course) she did even better as in 91 since now she could play and beat the number 2 a few times but that was the fault of the number 2 who messed up constantly in 91!

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Tennis Fool
What? Monica has a brother?!!

I thought she was an only child!

cause you're a tennis fool;)

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:25 PM
Monica lost in the 3rd round of the 1990 US Open. Who did she lose to?

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:25 PM
Tennisfool, I'm not sure what you're saying "maybe/maybe not" about. I said "we'll never know how Monica's game might have grown." That seems indisputable to me.

It's certainly true that her game had grown enormously only a year later at the Australian Open 93 final, she played an amazing final against a very tough Graf. While her serve was a liability in this 91 match against Capriati, by 93, she was serving over 100mph and hit 7 aces and coming to the net a lot more.
So we know in fact that she did get better.

Sure we'll never know if she would have gottten better and better. But even if she had been able to maintain that level before the stabbing and not get any better, I don't think the tour changed that much before 1997-8.

Without getting into the Steffi-Monica debate, I don't think there was anyone to challenge them consistently until the Hingis-Davenport-Williams generation came of age.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:27 PM
Nysaga,

was that remark necessary...

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:29 PM
Tennisfool, I don't know why you need to put down Monica in order to elevate the Williams sisters. I agree that Venus and Serena of 2002 would have beaten Monica of 1991. Their serves are much much better, they are much fitter and more athletic and their games are more complete.
But Monica wasn't competing against future stars, she was just trying to win a tournament. What she accomplished before she stabbed was remarkable and the subsequent evolution of the women's game doesn't change that.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:40 PM
Mishar,

I wasn't putting down Monica. She was the best, of course. I was just saying how far the game has come, you can even see with JenCap how physically tougher she is now.

The frustrating thing about watching Monica post 1995 is that she hasn't dedicated herself to fitness and could have done even more. Jennifer had that layoff too came back but sucked (how many years of first round losses) but totally dedicated herself to play the modern game and the result was 3 GS.

I love Martina N. (who was just interviewed in the players lounge). She's said at this tournament what a woman player can do in their 30s and its just the media who keeps saying "retire, retire". She was getting those remarks when she was 30 and #1 in the world! Again, she's been Monica's strongest advocate, but still questions her fitness (she thinks this is one reason she keeps getting injured).

Love-seles
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:41 PM
The Seles of 93 would have beaten the William sisters, Monica was just getting on top in 91, this wasn't when she was at her greatest peak, that came in mid 92-93, thats When Monica hit her stride, and thats why she was stabbed by a nutty Graf fan from Germany, he knew how good Monica was, and knew she was going to rule.

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:43 PM
Wow..i'm just amazed by Monica watching this match. She was so freaking aggressive.

TeeRexx
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:44 PM
Nice to see these two play when they were young.
Next, I want to see the 1999 and/or 2000 U.S. Open semi between VENUS and Hingis. Those were classics as well. :)

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:45 PM
Seles of 93 beat the current Williams sisters.

NOT.

Even Mary Carillo said that the other day.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:47 PM
Mishar,

definitely the unenforced errors is the biggest difference now.

....Tom Gulikson was Cappy's coach. Wasn't he the one who died of cancer?

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:48 PM
I agree it's been frustrating, tennisfool, but for all she's been through I don't really feel like judging and condemning Monica. Clearly her fitness holds her back.. and yet she's still top 5, which is pretty impressive considering the depth in today's game, she's still the only player to have beaten both Venus and Serena in the last year (ok, 13 months).

I read somewhere where Martina N. said about Monica that she had accomplished so much so young that she didn't have that same hunger to win when she came back from the stabbing and after her father's death.

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:49 PM
people sometimes forget how mentally tough monica was those days!

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Tennis Fool
Nysaga,

was that remark necessary...

Yes!! If it sounds like a fool, talks like a fool, then it is a Fool..lol

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:51 PM
I hope Monica is in the locker room or at her hotel watching this match and she comes out tonight playing like this. She says she's never watched any matches of herself, which I find amazing.

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:52 PM
I don't, I hate to watch or listen to myself too;)

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:53 PM
Nysaga,

You are chidish.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:54 PM
Correx: childish.

What have I said that upset you so much? Be mature.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:57 PM
For those of you who are more mature:

Tennis Fool I came up with because it describes my infatuation with this sport. I don't know why I love tennis so much, and more into it than basketball, baseball, soccer, football.

I've always been a big fan, and probably will always be.

It's sorta like saying, "A fool in love". You know???

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:57 PM
Fool, why are you in this thread when you obviously have no interest in Monica, Jennifer, or this match? Go pop in one of the sisters' match and quit provoking Seles fans.

Tennis Fool
Sep 2nd, 2002, 05:58 PM
Nysaga,

I'll say it again. Be mature.

TeNnIsFaN
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:00 PM
DAMN IT! I've been dying to see that match, and I sometimes can't even find it on eBay...Oh well...-sigh-

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:06 PM
Wish I could go back in time and tell Monica what layed ahead!

veryborednow
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:07 PM
TeNnIsFaN - I paid £20 for this match :eek: worth it though ;)

mishar
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:07 PM
yes, that's a little sad isn't it Nysaga? It seemed at the time like they would both play many great matches like that in grand slam tournaments.. but that was the beginning of the end for Jennifer (at least for nine years).. and Monica's time at the top was also cut short. So we missed more great matches between these two rivals.

goseles
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:40 PM
Watching this match is so amazing... Monica's returns were absolutely AWESOME, and even today with some serves that are slower than Capriati's were in this match, Monica does not do the outrageous hard angled returns consistently like she is doing in this match. Today she seems to hit more down the line or centered returns, they are still hard but she only sometimes hits the short angled ones. As far as the serve goes, I'm not too fond of her motion then but I actually think the lefty slice on the ad side was very effective. I've heard many say that she hadn't developed that serve but (at least in this match) she hit many short serves that tailed away from Jennifer. Also, I would LOVE for her to throw in some of those moonball type shots today. As long as they are close to the baseline they could be very effective in throwing off her opponents. Finally, a few times Monica actually hit the return and ran to the net... I don't think I have EVER seen her do that the past few years. Monica really should watch some of this stuff, or at least have someone else watch it and give her some tips of what she did so well back then... I don't think she has necessarily forgotten it but maybe she does in matches. I am very impressed by both of these players in this unbelievable match, but especially Monica.

goseles
Sep 2nd, 2002, 06:43 PM
Oh and btw, Jennifer, Monica grunted just as loud back then as she does today ;)

Dawn Marie
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:01 PM
I like Monica's short hairstyle. It brings her face out.

LMAOat their outfits though.:)

Go Monica beat Jennifer!!:)

kournikovafan13
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:10 PM
Wow what a match:eek:

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:12 PM
guess I was the only one who liked monica's 91 outfit.
see I was not that bad:p
I wish there would have been a messageboard that time, we would have had so much fun :p

Bella
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:16 PM
Did anyone else get nervous even though you knew the ending? The adrenaline is still pumping.

evadafan
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:17 PM
The greatest thing about this match is to see the great shots Monica came up with when she was scrambling. She doesn't do that anymore. Also, the mental toughness. WOW. You can't equate this to Hingis's dominance because she didn't have to fight through great dominant players like Graf and Navratilova to get to the top. It's not a surprise her (Hingis) dominance didn't last. Seles did improve vastly by 93. She would have won so much. Even if the Williams did come along to start to challenge, Monica would have already won so much. The Williams couldn't play consistent tennis at the young age Monica and Jen did.

nysaga
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:31 PM
You're right Evadafan, Monica played great when she was on the defensive. These days she would lose a lot of the points when she's scrambling.

Mark43
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:37 PM
Jennifer's serve was incredible back in 1991, so much more smooth and fluid. I beleive she only hit 1 double fault in an entire 3 set HUGE pressure match. i really hope JenCAP was watching that match today in the players lounge (I know Stefano was). Her serve should be a big weapon, not the liablity that Sterfano spoke of to Pam Shriver early this afternoon.

Overall impressions...
Monica moved/recovered amazingly
Monica was much more consistent, hitting more angles, moving forward more
Jennifer was the best 15 year-old EVER!
Jennifer's offense is improved but the basics of her game remain ('cept that double fault tally)

irma
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:41 PM
is it me but was cappy not much quicker between the points those days ? sure she still is but then she hardly took the time to bounce the ball. it was a thing I liked about her, I like players who want to play fast without fooling around

CJ07
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:49 PM
'93 Monica cant beat them?
Well '02 and 01' Monica beat them so....

disposablehero
Sep 2nd, 2002, 07:58 PM
This match has the same event as all Monica's other close matches from that era. That's the critical moment where Monica simply imposes her will on the match, in this case when Jen was serving at 6-5 30-15 in the 3rd.

Pamela Shriver
Sep 2nd, 2002, 08:33 PM
When are they to show the amazing replay of the Open final, Chris vs Me in 78???
Actually...maybe its a good thing. :o

selesadmirer
Sep 2nd, 2002, 09:17 PM
This match was great,go monica.

mboyle
Sep 2nd, 2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by mishar
yes, that's a little sad isn't it Nysaga? It seemed at the time like they would both play many great matches like that in grand slam tournaments.. but that was the beginning of the end for Jennifer (at least for nine years).. and Monica's time at the top was also cut short. So we missed more great matches between these two rivals.

I know. I think that had Jenny Cap at 6-5 30-15 hit a backhand down the line instead of another moonball (in response to Monica's first moonball) she wouldn't have had her downward spiral and would have ended the year no. 3 or 4. (Winning the US Open) Monica still would have been a great champion because her father was sensible and didn't make her do countless silly exhibitions during the preciously short off season.

Beige
Sep 3rd, 2002, 12:01 PM
This match is good for the fans to see the root of power (or "Big Babe") tennis. It was interesting to listen to the original commentary from '91 because power tennis seemed so innovative back then. Seles and Capriati showed very little subtlety-- just boom boom boom. And the rest as they say is...

Sam L
Sep 3rd, 2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by irma
guess I was the only one who liked monica's 91 outfit.


irma, I loved that outfit too. In fact I loved many of Monica's outfits in the early 90's. They really suited the way she she played and she looked great in them.

I've seen a photo of her playing at the US Open 91 where it was taken from the top and she was preparing to hit a backhand. It's one of the best (tennis players in motion) photos I've seen :)