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View Full Version : Wow, hate to be a pessimist, but after wating the first set of Caro vs Ula...


Slutiana
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Is this the future of womens' Tennis? :tape: :help: :sobbing:

Im sorry, i dont mind either but seriously both their games. :tape: Ok, they both have nice backhands and are fairly good at the net and have good variety but seriously. :tape: Some of the decisions make them seem just as brainless as the BBBBs of the tour, and there's just nothing special about their games. Nothing. If these two are meant to be the next best things in the WTA since sliced bread then wow. I mean its not a bad match, but there's just nothing there.... I know that people have hammered this home about Caro but wow, im still in shock. I just couldnt watch anymore..

Nikkiri
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:36 PM
http://jmn.fadainc.com/funnypics/Fail.jpg

In The Zone
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Is this the future of womens' Tennis? :tape: :help: :sobbing:

Im sorry, i dont mind either but seriously both their games. :tape: Ok, they both have nice backhands and are fairly good at the net and have good variety but seriously. :tape: Some of the decisions make them seem just as brainless as the BBBBs of the tour, and there's just nothing special about their games. Nothing. If these two are meant to be the next best things in the WTA since sliced bread then wow. I mean its not a bad match, but there's just nothing there.... I know that people have hammered this home about Caro but wow, im still in shock. I just couldnt watch anymore..

I believe that these women are not the future of tennis but just the next step in evolution of women's tennis. It is the girls behind them that will be the real holders of tennis.

iPatty
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Radwanska jerks her body more than Kleybanova does when she hits groundstrokes. Neither of them are the future of tennis - no way either of them ever grabs a big title in their career.

spiritedenergy
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:42 PM
Pavlyunchekova will outperform them:hearts:. Seriously I agree a bit with the opener, and Pavlyuchenkova looks to have more talent and power that these two.

Slutiana
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Radwanska jerks her body more than Kleybanova does when she hits groundstrokes. Neither of them are the future of tennis - no way either of them ever grabs a big title in their career.
Then who is?

Dodoboy.
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:50 PM
1. You love being a pessimist :rolleyes:

2. Their games will develop and change!

3. Yes, they will be in the deep end of bigger titles like it or not.

4. I am fine with it, they are mentally sound. They can keep the ball in court for more than 3 strokes.

KournikovaFan91
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Yeah I agree Pavlyuchenkova looks good but she took forever to make the transition between Juniors and WTA.

iPatty
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:53 PM
Then who is?

Williams sisters, Sharapova, Safina, Azarenka, and Pavlyuchenkova for the next several years. It's not just going to be Radwanska and Wozniacki dominating when the Williams sisters retire. There are still plenty of players that are already better than them or have the potential to be better than them.

spiritedenergy
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:53 PM
Yeah I agree Pavlyuchenkova looks good but she took forever to make the transition between Juniors and WTA.

But I think she's from 1991 and she's already n.42. Wozniacki and Radwanska are both from 1990 I think. Anyways it's too early to say.:p

Kim's_fan_4ever
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:54 PM
They're only 18. Give them a break.

KournikovaFan91
Mar 17th, 2009, 08:57 PM
But I think she's from 1991 and she's already n.42. Wozniacki and Radwanska are both from 1990 I think. Anyways it's too early to say.:p

Its true she flew up the ranks once she had transitioned but I always thought she could have started a bit sooner.

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:00 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:so true, I appreciate Caro but come on, she lacks power, it's annoying, where are the winners:rolleyes:
Pavlyuenchova is the future of tennis, good hitting from both sides, especially with her BH:drool:

spiritedenergy
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Its true she flew up the ranks once she had transitioned but I always thought she could have started a bit sooner.

If I'm not mistaken they can only play a few WTA events before turning 18?

I read she won 5 ITF events in 2008 and that's why her ranking got pretty high.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:05 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:so true, I appreciate Caro but come on, she lacks power, it's annoying, where are the winners:rolleyes:
Pavlyuenchova is the future of tennis, good hitting from both sides, especially with her BH:drool:

The thing is that Caro doesn't lack power. She hit a couple of 110 mph serves to end the match. She's capable of stepping up and hitting winners, but for whatever reason seems to moonball and stand well behind the baseline under pressure. She HAS to get rid of this habit if she's going to seriously contend for major titles and slams.

crazillo
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:07 PM
I was really disappointed with that match as well!

KournikovaFan91
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:07 PM
But Larcher de Brito has moved up quickly at 15.

But I still think Pavlyuchenkova is the best of the new players.

muniu
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:10 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:so true, I appreciate Caro but come on, she lacks power, it's annoying, where are the winners:rolleyes:
Pavlyuenchova is the future of tennis, good hitting from both sides, especially with her BH:drool:

yes , hit as hard as you can , lovely future of tennis :hearts:

:rocker2:

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:16 PM
yes , hit as hard as you can , lovely future of tennis :hearts:

:rocker2:

I said "good hitting", not hard hitting everywhere like Ivanovic:rolleyes: and Pavlyu has a good touch too.

fouc
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:17 PM
oh c'mon, Ula had plenty of winners, if only she can cut down on these UEs, she will improve adorably!

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:31 PM
i love caro but she's a hardcore pusher. it makes me mad.:bigcry:

I said "good hitting", not hard hitting everywhere like Ivanovic:rolleyes: and Pavlyu has a good touch too.

or sharapova...

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:36 PM
I said "good hitting", not hard hitting everywhere like Ivanovic:rolleyes: and Pavlyu has a good touch too.

not surprised that the first set of insults that you throw out are about ana :rolleyes: look at your own fave before you insult another play about hard hitting everywhere :wavey:

Sally Todd
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:39 PM
I don't know, I think it's a good thing that Pavlyuchenkova didn't rush into the WTA. Her peer Paszek did, and look at her right now: :tape:

I'm only about the billionth person to say the WTA is in a major malaise. It's kind of remarkable how many underachievers are on tour these last few years. My favorite underachievers are Lucie Safarova :sad: and Agnes Szavay :cool:. I'm sure everyone else here has a bunch.

Before you say Safarova and Szavay are overrated, the truth is very few of the younger players play at or near their potential. (Aga Radwanska is one possible exception, though she could really improve her serve.) I'm not saying Agnes and Lucie should be winning majors or even top tier tourneys, but they don't play as well as they SHOULD.

There are so many underachievers right now that when a player actually gets her game together and starts playing good tennis, like Azarenka, I find myself casting all past opinions aside and rooting for her.

Vika was far from my favorite among her generation (I couldn't stand the shrieking and thought the game lacked grace the first times I saw her), but she just might become a fave sooner than later because:

-- she's committed
-- she's improving (her strokes are better-looking and better-executed now)

Who else can we say that about?

Anyway, Caro and Ula are very very early in their careers. I think the problem with a match like this, and a lot of WTA tennis these days, is that it isn't INSPIRED. Where is the passion of a Seles?

I am interested-to-excited about Pavlyuchenkova. Wanna see more of her. Her strokes were more fluid than I expected.

fish_wilson
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:40 PM
Maybe its just me but I really enjoyed watching this match, lots of variation, some shots obviously need some work, but overall it was nice. I want this to be the future of womens tennis, actually I can't wait to have the four "new" girls deep into the grand slams; Azarenka, Wozniacki, Pavlyuchenkova and Radwanska jr. Get rid of the dinosaurs NOW!

BartoliBabes
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:41 PM
1. You love being a pessimist :rolleyes:

2. Their games will develop and change!

3. Yes, they will be in the deep end of bigger titles like it or not.

4. I am fine with it, they are mentally sound. They can keep the ball in court for more than 3 strokes.

kinda everything i thought...:worship:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:44 PM
I kinda liked this match too. It wasn't amazing but there were some good rallies and it was very evenly matched.

It was weird watching it because it did appear to be slow when compared to other matches but it was nice seeing long rallies in women's tennis.

I can't see these two really ruling the women's tour though. There are probably other girls waiting in the wings with bigger weapons.

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:52 PM
not surprised that the first set of insults that you throw out are about ana :rolleyes: look at your own fave before you insult another play about hard hitting everywhere :wavey:

Sharapova hard hitting everywhere:spit: I guess it's like that she stayed in the top 5 almost 5 years:yeah:

Matt01
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Actually, I have to agree with the threadstarter here. Radwanska's and Wozniacki's games are not that terribly pretty to watch. Even though the match was not quite as bad as I expected it to be...some few rallies and volleys were nice to watch...


not surprised that the first set of insults that you throw out are about ana :rolleyes: look at your own fave before you insult another play about hard hitting everywhere :wavey:


Indeed.

Craig.
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:55 PM
OMG Mashafaaaaaan, STFU. :weirdo:

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:55 PM
ta mauvaise foi mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
:haha: :haha: :haha: you're right, sharapova has a lot of variety in her game, she never hits with power. she is so gracious and soft on court that her shoulder gets broken each time she plays more than two months.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:56 PM
if you don't think sharapova hits hard everywhere then :weirdo: the fact that she hits hard has nothing to do with the fact that she has stayed in the top 5 for 5 years so i don't get why you put that irrelevant fact there :shrug:

volta
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:59 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:so true, I appreciate Caro but come on, she lacks power, it's annoying, where are the winners:rolleyes:
Pavlyuenchova is the future of tennis, good hitting from both sides, especially with her BH:drool:

did u actually see the match? Caro doesn't lack power she just doesn't rely on it to win

they are both really young so let's see how their games develop

i am a Caro fan , i just think that she needs to be more aggressive and take the initiative of the point more often, the moonballs today were just :lol:

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Actually, I have to agree with the threadstarter here. Radwanska's and Wozniacki's games are not that terribly pretty to watch. Even though the match was not quite as bad as I expected it to be...some few rallies and volleys were nice to watch...



i think radwanska has variety and is interesting to watch. whereas caro, is so desperately pushing the ball. seriously, she's only hitting the ball. i still don't understand how she managed to loose to jelena at the australian.

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:01 PM
i am a Caro fan , i just think that she needs to be more aggressive and take the initiative of the point more often, the moonballs today were just :lol:
+1 she's not a junior anymore. i don't ask her to volley (she's horrible:lol:) but at least to attack the ball.

fouc
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:02 PM
i think radwanska has variety and is interesting to watch. whereas caro, is so desperately pushing the ball. seriously, she's only hitting the ball. i still don't understand how she managed to loose to jelena at the australian.

that is precisely what Ula shouted to herself during the match :) (in polish of course)

adner
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:02 PM
The match was not bad at all. They fought well and both had hit many nice shots(such as Aga usually does when playing her game just she does it more often than Ula). It wasn't like they were going for all or nothing all the time like some russian mentioned some posts before(and I am not talking about Sharapova), they tried volleying, topspinned safe balls(how bad do they look but are quite nasty to return) and Ula was quite effective at dropshots(in first set). If that's future of tennis, I am going to accept it, much more than I'd accept Safina - Kanepi domination <cough>.

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:04 PM
that is precisely what Ula shouted to herself during the match :) (in polish of course)

seriously??? i'm not surprised.:lol:

volta
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:04 PM
ta mauvaise foi mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
:haha: :haha: :haha: you're right, sharapova has a lot of variety in her game, she never hits with power. she is so gracious and soft on court that her shoulder gets broken each time she plays more than two months.

:lol:

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:04 PM
ta mauvaise foi mashafaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
:haha: :haha: :haha: you're right, sharapova has a lot of variety in her game, she never hits with power. she is so gracious and soft on court that her shoulder gets broken each time she plays more than two months.

I didn't say that, her game is very solid though she lacks variety, there is very few matches where she has a lot of UE unlike Vee or Ana for example.
Sharapova = Davenport, Ivanovic = Venus:lol:

volta
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:06 PM
+1 she's not a junior anymore. i don't ask her to volley (she's horrible:lol:) but at least to attack the ball.

exactly :lol: and she made her life easier today when she started to do it . she is consistent with her strokes so hitting them with a bit more interest wont hurt

Dodoboy.
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Anyone who thinks Caro LACKS power needs to go back and watch the match, she can hit the ball hard. But she has more dimensions to her game. She doesn't need to hit hard all the time, it's refreshing. A lot of the points were really long - the first set was great tennis to watch tbh!

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:15 PM
I didn't say that, her game is very solid though she lacks variety, there is very few matches where she has a lot of UE unlike Vee or Ana for example.

seriously....do you even watch maria play or are you just a stan? :lol:

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:18 PM
seriously....do you even watch maria play or are you just a stan? :lol:

I stopped watching Maria after '06 then I watched her in 2008.:lol::lol: you perfectly know what I mean, Maria and Davenport hit hard but that doesn't mean in most of their matches, there is plenty of errors. It's not comparable to Ivanovic, seriously.

lilimi
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:24 PM
I didn't say that, her game is very solid though she lacks variety, there is very few matches where she has a lot of UE unlike Vee or Ana for example.
Sharapova = Davenport, Ivanovic = Venus:lol:

and 2+2 = 22

spiritedenergy
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:27 PM
and 2+2 = 22

:lol:

I stopped watching Maria after '06 then I watched her in 2008.:lol::lol: you perfectly know what I mean, Maria and Davenport hit hard but that doesn't mean in most of their matches, there is plenty of errors. It's not comparable to Ivanovic, seriously.

What happened in 2007 mashafaaaaan? It looks like one year of confinement wasn't enough:sad::lol::p

volta
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:29 PM
I didn't say that, her game is very solid though she lacks variety, there is very few matches where she has a lot of UE unlike Vee or Ana for example.
Sharapova = Davenport, Ivanovic = Venus:lol:

and ur wrong if Ana = Venus then going by your other post = venus hits hard everywhere wich is FAR from the truth

Malva
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:34 PM
I don't know, I think it's a good thing that Pavlyuchenkova didn't rush into the WTA. Her peer Paszek did, and look at her right now: :tape:

I'm only about the billionth person to say the WTA is in a major malaise. It's kind of remarkable how many underachievers are on tour these last few years. My favorite underachievers are Lucie Safarova :sad: and Agnes Szavay :cool:. I'm sure everyone else here has a bunch.

Before you say Safarova and Szavay are overrated, the truth is very few of the younger players play at or near their potential. (Aga Radwanska is one possible exception, though she could really improve her serve.) I'm not saying Agnes and Lucie should be winning majors or even top tier tourneys, but they don't play as well as they SHOULD.

There are so many underachievers right now that when a player actually gets her game together and starts playing good tennis, like Azarenka, I find myself casting all past opinions aside and rooting for her.

Vika was far from my favorite among her generation (I couldn't stand the shrieking and thought the game lacked grace the first times I saw her), but she just might become a fave sooner than later because:

-- she's committed
-- she's improving (her strokes are better-looking and better-executed now)

Who else can we say that about?

Anyway, Caro and Ula are very very early in their careers. I think the problem with a match like this, and a lot of WTA tennis these days, is that it isn't INSPIRED. Where is the passion of a Seles?

I am interested-to-excited about Pavlyuchenkova. Wanna see more of her. Her strokes were more fluid than I expected.

Spot on. I like your even-handed comments, and good will. Including the comments on Azarenka.

Mashafaaaaan
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:41 PM
and ur wrong if Ana = Venus then going by your other post = venus hits hard everywhere wich is FAR from the truth

Thank God you edited.

volta
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Thank God you edited.

what? about Sharapova being more Venus?! i do think that she is (with ALOT less movement and worse volleys. im talking about the ball bashing Vee ) i only edited it cuz i dont feel like turning this into a Sharapova thread :wavey:

Viktymise
Mar 17th, 2009, 10:46 PM
The thing is that Caro doesn't lack power. She hit a couple of 110 mph serves to end the match. She's capable of stepping up and hitting winners, but for whatever reason seems to moonball and stand well behind the baseline under pressure. She HAS to get rid of this habit if she's going to seriously contend for major titles and slams.

Quite clearly, if she had the ability to hit outright winners from the baseline, she would.

It's not a case of her choosing just to moonball, junkball and stand so far behind the baseline in general because she lacks confidence or whatever. Her technique simply isin't good enough to execute an effective, consistent power game. Players don't just decide not to ballbash because they believe it's beneath their intelligence or something. They probably just don't have the ability.

Hitting a bit flat 1st serve, and a big flat groundstroke are two different things. Case in point, Bychkova.

Back on topic, as I stated in he WWW thread, this match was a clear case of ES(maybe even the WTA) trying to bill the encounter as "a glimpse into the future of the WTA". It's likely that the WTA still havn't adjusted to the fact that the junior ranks aren't producing the same sort of players for the main tour that they were even four years ago or so. Blind faith in La Borz almost. Without really examining her game, they just assume because she's had this big rise in the rankings and she won a junior slam or two that she's the next generation. I'm not sure how low the WTA will sink in the coming years but it would have to deteriorate quite considerably for La Borz to be #1/multiple slam winner.

Dawson.
Mar 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM
I don't think Ula can be considered the future of womens tennis and (as much as I love her) I don't think the same can be said for Caro at the minute. Although it's very early on and it's impossible to tell what will happen, right now I see Caro as being a solid top 10/15 player for many years to come, peaking in the top 5. As for Ula, I think a solid top 30 player who peaks top 15.

Viktymise
Mar 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM
But she has more dimensions to her game.

Like?

Just because she's incapable of hitting outright winners from the baseline against even scrubs and needs about 55675656531 extra shots to finish points off, doesn't mean her game is full of "dimensions".

Miss Amor
Mar 17th, 2009, 11:17 PM
What happened in 2007 mashafaaaaan? It looks like one year of confinement wasn't enough:sad::lol::p

Australian open happened in 2007

The Dawntreader
Mar 17th, 2009, 11:58 PM
I agree Caro hasn't got any degree of subtlety in her game, or any type of raw power, but i was a fan today of how she kept the ball deep. I think one underated quality on the WTA is the ability to keep the ball in but with good length. Sure it's maybe not aesthetically enthralling, but it does get the job done.

I'm just a bit irked about this 'pusher' description several posters seem to have regarding wozniacki. Sure she's hot hitting winners every other point, but she's hardly just patting the ball over the net and hoping to god her opponent makes an error at the earliest oppurtunity. That said, if she plays anyone with movement better than hers, she will find it hard to enforce her game on them. Plus if they have a power game added with the movement, she can get blown off the court.

That said i dont see 'pusher', i just see 'solid'. I think there's a subtle difference.

Pavlova will undoubtedly disagree:lol:

volta
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:06 AM
I agree Caro hasn't got any degree of subtlety in her game, or any type of raw power, but i was a fan today of how she kept the ball deep. I think one underated quality on the WTA is the ability to keep the ball in but with good length. Sure it's maybe not aesthetically enthralling, but it does get the job done.

I'm just a bit irked about this 'pusher' description several posters seem to have regarding wozniacki. Sure she's hot hitting winners every other point, but she's hardly just patting the ball over the net and hoping to god her opponent makes an error at the earliest oppurtunity. That said, if she plays anyone with movement better than hers, she will find it hard to enforce her game on them. Plus if they have a power game added with the movement, she can get blown off the court.

That said i dont see 'pusher', i just see 'solid'. I think there's a subtle difference.

Pavlova will undoubtedly disagree:lol:
:D

AnnaK_4ever
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:13 AM
I'm just a bit irked about this 'pusher' description several posters seem to have regarding wozniacki. Sure she's hot hitting winners every other point, but she's hardly just patting the ball over the net and hoping to god her opponent makes an error at the earliest oppurtunity.

That is exactly what she does.

And those 164 moonballs in a row while playing 17 years old Radwanska on hardcourts were just a crime against tennis.

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:19 AM
That is exactly what she does.

And those 164 moonballs in a row while playing 17 years old Radwanska on hardcourts were just a crime against tennis.

I think you're a bit of a tennis snob AnnaK;):lol:

Seriously though, i actually thought today she played more aggressively, and it's not the first time i've thought that this year. She was hitting the ball with considerable purpose against Serena in Sydney, so i cannot adhere to this concensus that she plays just moonball after moonball.

Of course perception is subjective, so i wont try and disprove yours.

frenchie
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:19 AM
Sharapova hard hitting everywhere:spit: I guess it's like that she stayed in the top 5 almost 5 years:yeah:

:help:

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:21 AM
Sharapova hard hitting everywhere:spit: I guess it's like that she stayed in the top 5 almost 5 years:yeah:

Well she hardly wrote, or contributed to the book- 'How to play all-court tennis'.

AnnaK_4ever
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:33 AM
I think you're a bit of a tennis snob AnnaK;):lol:

Seriously though, i actually thought today she played more aggressively, and it's not the first time i've thought that this year. She was hitting the ball with considerable purpose against Serena in Sydney, so i cannot adhere to this concensus that she plays just moonball after moonball.


More aggresively than usual? Yes, because she played a junior
And still by no means it was what I would call "hitting the ball".

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:34 AM
More aggresively than usual? Yes, because she played a junior
And still by no means it was what I would call "hitting the ball".

So you agree she was hitting the ball more aggressively then?;)

frenchie
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:36 AM
I really don't get that "pusher" thing about Wozniacki???

Sure she's not blasting winners everywhere but she knows how to construct points and move the ball around.
And her ground game definitely has a good depth. Hitting FH with topspin doesn't = moonballing (except Mauresmo!)

To me pusher = 1OO% defensive players like Smashnova or Montolio
Caro is obviously not one of them

AnnaK_4ever
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:40 AM
So you agree she was hitting the ball more aggressively then?;)

Yes, I agree. But she was not hitting the ball aggressively enough.

volta
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:43 AM
I really don't get that "pusher" thing about Wozniacki???

Sure she's not blasting winners everywhere but she knows how to construct points and move the ball around.
And her ground game definitely has a good depth. Hitting FH with topspin doesn't = moonballing (except Mauresmo!)

To me pusher = 1OO% defensive players like Smashnova or Montolio
Caro is obviously not one of them

:worship:

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Yes, I agree. But she was not hitting the ball aggressively enough.

Well i agree on that count too. Don't get me wrong, there's a reason why Caro hasn't got deep in a Slam yet, or beaten a sub-par Serena Williams when holding mps.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:45 AM
that's true...cause i remember watching her play serena in sydney and sometimes she would step up and rip winners, and sometimes she'd just settle for moving the ball around with depth or angles...even when she was play jj last year at wimby, i was surprised by how well she was playing when on the attack...

like jj i think more often than not she's gonna rely on working the ball but she always has that "trick up her sleeve"...:shrug:

Leo_DFP
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Wozniacki's technique is lacking. I hate her ridiculous western grip shots.

The future of women's tennis is grim.

Viktymise
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:54 AM
I agree Caro hasn't got any degree of subtlety in her game, or any type of raw power, but i was a fan today of how she kept the ball deep. I think one underated quality on the WTA is the ability to keep the ball in but with good length. Sure it's maybe not aesthetically enthralling, but it does get the job done.

I'm just a bit irked about this 'pusher' description several posters seem to have regarding wozniacki. Sure she's hot hitting winners every other point, but she's hardly just patting the ball over the net and hoping to god her opponent makes an error at the earliest oppurtunity. That said, if she plays anyone with movement better than hers, she will find it hard to enforce her game on them. Plus if they have a power game added with the movement, she can get blown off the court.

That said i dont see 'pusher', i just see 'solid'. I think there's a subtle difference.

Pavlova will undoubtedly disagree:lol:

I don't disagree with any of this, per se.

I honestly think La Borz is maximising what she can do. She obviously doesn't have the tools to be any sort of an effective power player, but she does keep an immaculate length, reads the game well and has excellent reflexes which add to her defensive game.

A "pusher" may be a slight dramatisation, but usually against lower ranked scrubs, she plays extremely passively, rarely looks to dictate and wins mainly on her ability to to keep the ball deep and eventually outlast her oppenent in rallies. She doesn't possess any great dimensions to her game, despite the popular mis-informed belief. She can't volley to save her life, and her little random junky shots that are thrown in from time to time are a side-effect of her ugly technique, rather that any tactical prowess.

Slutiana
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:06 AM
1. You love being a pessimist :rolleyes:

2. Their games will develop and change!

3. Yes, they will be in the deep end of bigger titles like it or not.

4. I am fine with it, they are mentally sound. They can keep the ball in court for more than 3 strokes.
No need to be defensive Kinglsey, i dont mean to make Caro sound so bad but im just saying what i see when I see her play.
Anyone who thinks Caro LACKS power needs to go back and watch the match, she can hit the ball hard. But she has more dimensions to her game. She doesn't need to hit hard all the time, it's refreshing. A lot of the points were really long - the first set was great tennis to watch tbh!
But what exactly? Trust me, I have no problem with players who dont go for their shots everytime, Simon is my no.1 male player, I find Tati's game (even though she can hit with a lot of power when she likes) more aesthetically pleasing than anybody else but when But a big part of Tati's and Gilles' games are the brain and they both read tennis like a book, they know exactly how to set up points, how to get the ball past their opponents without using brute force everytime...

But then I see these two, their games are simple and they're just not very smart players, yes Caro can keep the ball deep, she can volley and she slices sometimes but there's no point of having this when she just doesnt have the tennis brain to pull it off against the big players of right now. I mean I want to see something that just makes me think 'wow' something that is gonna catipult her to the top but everything about her game just screams average, and i dont mean average as in top 100 average, shes obviously a good player, btu there's just nothing that she can bring out when push comes to shove. At least Radwanska has a fairly good tennis brain and can construct points pretty well. Just watching the tour now, 50% of the players who showed loads of promise are injured/slumping or just coming back from injuries or slumps. Agains tmost players, all you need to do is be consistent and get as many balls back in as possible. Thats what Caroline does, but as we saw at the Australian Open vs Dokic, against a player of class, she stands no chance, really. Its not like shes extremely fast, or does anything extremely well.....
Quite clearly, if she had the ability to hit outright winners from the baseline, she would.

It's not a case of her choosing just to moonball, junkball and stand so far behind the baseline in general because she lacks confidence or whatever. Her technique simply isin't good enough to execute an effective, consistent power game. Players don't just decide not to ballbash because they believe it's beneath their intelligence or something. They probably just don't have the ability.

Hitting a bit flat 1st serve, and a big flat groundstroke are two different things. Case in point, Bychkova.

Back on topic, as I stated in he WWW thread, this match was a clear case of ES(maybe even the WTA) trying to bill the encounter as "a glimpse into the future of the WTA". It's likely that the WTA still havn't adjusted to the fact that the junior ranks aren't producing the same sort of players for the main tour that they were even four years ago or so. Blind faith in La Borz almost. Without really examining her game, they just assume because she's had this big rise in the rankings and she won a junior slam or two that she's the next generation. I'm not sure how low the WTA will sink in the coming years but it would have to deteriorate quite considerably for La Borz to be #1/multiple slam winner.
Exactly.
Like?

Just because she's incapable of hitting outright winners from the baseline against even scrubs and needs about 55675656531 extra shots to finish points off, doesn't mean her game is full of "dimensions".

Slutiana
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:08 AM
I don't disagree with any of this, per se.

I honestly think La Borz is maximising what she can do. She obviously doesn't have the tools to be any sort of an effective power player, but she does keep an immaculate length, reads the game well and has excellent reflexes which add to her defensive game.

A "pusher" may be a slight dramatisation, but usually against lower ranked scrubs, she plays extremely passively, rarely looks to dictate and wins mainly on her ability to to keep the ball deep and eventually outlast her oppenent in rallies. She doesn't possess any great dimensions to her game, despite the popular mis-informed belief. She can't volley to save her life, and her little random junky shots that are thrown in from time to time are a side-effect of her ugly technique, rather that any tactical prowess.
No, I think she can volley.. She played a few nice volleys today and also in doubles i've seen her play a few good ones but thats as far as her "dimensions" stretch, really...

Langers
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Caro's a stunner though so it's all good.

Christinawww
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:28 AM
Thats what Caroline does, but as we saw at the Australian Open vs Dokic, against a player of class, she stands no chance, really. Its not like shes extremely fast, or does anything extremely well.....

Exactly.

well she beat Dokic in Memphis, so I guess Dokic forgot her class somewhere in the Australian audience.

switz
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:38 AM
I find the new wave of women's tennis highly uninspiring. I just have to hope Mauresmo will continue to fightback so there is at least some variety lefty in the game.

Slutiana
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:46 AM
well she beat Dokic in Memphis, so I guess Dokic forgot her class somewhere in the Australian audience.
Dokic has burnt herself out, :shrug: too much practise, not enough rest... She lost to Craybas this week for god's sake. :tape:

Christinawww
Mar 18th, 2009, 02:10 AM
Dokic has burnt herself out, :shrug: too much practise, not enough rest... She lost to Craybas this week for god's sake. :tape:

Caro hadn't rested either. Played Auckland, Sydney, Aus Open, Fed Cup, Pattaya City, Memphis.

Slutiana
Mar 18th, 2009, 02:25 AM
Caro hadn't rested either. Played Auckland, Sydney, Aus Open, Fed Cup, Pattaya City, Memphis.
Ah, but she had the off season to recharge. Jelena has been working so hard at this comback sinse as early as like november or something....

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2009, 12:42 PM
I don't disagree with any of this, per se.

I honestly think La Borz is maximising what she can do. She obviously doesn't have the tools to be any sort of an effective power player, but she does keep an immaculate length, reads the game well and has excellent reflexes which add to her defensive game.

A "pusher" may be a slight dramatisation, but usually against lower ranked scrubs, she plays extremely passively, rarely looks to dictate and wins mainly on her ability to to keep the ball deep and eventually outlast her oppenent in rallies. She doesn't possess any great dimensions to her game, despite the popular mis-informed belief. She can't volley to save her life, and her little random junky shots that are thrown in from time to time are a side-effect of her ugly technique, rather that any tactical prowess.

I do agree that some people (who probably haven't seen her play extensively), have categorised her as an 'ballstriker' or at the very least an 'aggressive counter-puncher'. I dont see really where Caro fits in either description, and while the latter seems more appropiate, she hasn't got the range of shots or say the dexterity on the run, to hit winners from a defensive position. Myskina for example was an aggressive counter-puncher, because she could turn defense-offense rather remarkbaly, without ever having to hit the ball at a ferocious pace.

It's hard to describe Caro's game yet, because essentially, it's still under-developed, especially when you look how the world's elite played when they were of a similar age. They invariably all had at least one weapon. Caro can move the ball around the court with sufficient depth, but i do agree with you Pav, that she lacks a true finishing shot, especially in clutch situations. However, she does possess a good serve, which relies on accuracy but can also generate good pace. So there is a shot there that shows some aggressive promise.

She's definitely not a pusher, well in my reckoning anyway, but i agree that her technique (especially on her forehand) does give her game a kind of stasis on the tour. It's very hard to distinguish her.

However, she has a wealth of time on her hands, and improvements will surely come.

Sam L
Mar 18th, 2009, 01:06 PM
We might as well call it EETA (Eastern European Tennis Association). :scared: :yawn:

Dexter
Mar 18th, 2009, 02:23 PM
We might as well call it EETA (Eastern European Tennis Association). :scared: :yawn:Here we go again. Neither Denmark nor Poland belong to the Eastern Europe in any sense of this definition.