PDA

View Full Version : Do You Think Something Fishy Is Going On At Indian Wells?


entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:18 PM
i mean, come on, what are the odds of all these top seeds dropping like flies? :rolleyes: do you think the top women are trying to send larry scott some kind of message? conspiracy theorists, please chime in! :devil:

kwilliams
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:25 PM
I think the players can send a message in a much more constructive way.

Things like this will happen every once in a while. AO 06 was a bit like this.

Randy H
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:28 PM
I'm not sure what the conditions are like so far this year, but in the past Indian Wells has been known for often very difficult, windy conditions. Perhaps thats an issue this year too? This tournament has had its share of past surprises through the years

entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:31 PM
I'm not sure what the conditions are like so far this year, but in the past Indian Wells has been known for often very difficult, windy conditions. Perhaps thats an issue this year too? This tournament has had its share of past surprises through the years

well, i've caught some of the men's matches (since there's no wta coverage yet :mad:) and i can tell you that it was not windy yesterday.

serenus_2k8
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:31 PM
The ball just flies more here than elsewhere and the top women have obviously not put in enough work to adapt.

Plus no WS means why should they bother playing well since nobody is even interested in the womens side. Watch the mens over on Sky Sports if you want some quality tennis.

entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:33 PM
The ball just flies more here than elsewhere and the top women have obviously not put in enough work to adapt.

Plus no WS means why should they bother playing well since nobody is even interested in the womens side. Watch the mens over on Sky Sports if you want some quality tennis.

well, according to your logic, the women should actually play better here since they don't have to face the ws and, therefore, should have a better shot at the title, so... :confused:

Shawn
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:34 PM
i guess Venus , Serena, Jelena and Dementieva all did not show up

jjcrew#1
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:34 PM
I dont know but it seems like everyone is just waiting for Miami!

goldenlox
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:51 PM
Jelena has not played well yet this year.
Elena just wasn't ready. She needed some down time after Dubai and just couldn't get ready.

Every other contender is still there, playing

Dinara
Ana
Vera
Amelie
Dani
and most of the young stars
Caro, Vika, Alisa, Aga

SV_Fan
Mar 15th, 2009, 03:53 PM
I think they are tired already from trying to meet the requirements for the Road Map.

I think they all should flunk out, and let a no name win. That'll definately send a message.

joăo.
Mar 15th, 2009, 04:02 PM
The tour's just been a complete mess for the past months.

jjcrew#1
Mar 15th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Jelena has not played well yet this year.
Elena just wasn't ready. She needed some down time after Dubai and just couldn't get ready.

Every other contender is still there, playing

Dinara
Ana
Vera
Amelie
Dani
and most of the young stars
Caro, Vika, Alisa, Aga

Yeah but its just the fact that none of these players are playing flawless tennis right now!

Sammm
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Yeah but its just the fact that none of these players are playing flawless tennis right now!


When did anyone ever play flawless tennis? You don't need to be perfect to win.

kris719
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:31 PM
yeah it's all a big conspiracy :rolleyes:

seriously, what the fuck?

AdeyC
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:33 PM
I think the players can send a message in a much more constructive way.

Things like this will happen every once in a while. AO 06 was a bit like this.

So was Wimbly 83

serenus_2k8
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:34 PM
well, according to your logic, the women should actually play better here since they don't have to face the ws and, therefore, should have a better shot at the title, so... :confused:

No thats not my logic at all.

Br'er Rabbit
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:36 PM
It does seem like people are waiting for Miami, I know I am.

bobbynorwich
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:37 PM
:bounce: Lots of contenders, women's tennis is the big winner. :bounce:

Kart
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Seems to me that more is being exposed at this tournament than concealed.

Unfortunately for WTA.

CoolDude7
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Everyone is waiting for Miami! I think that field will be better, top players will have their game face on.

Br'er Rabbit
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:43 PM
definitely its the unofficial fifth grand slam

Direwolf
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:49 PM
When did anyone ever play flawless tennis? You don't need to be perfect to win.

Serena AO
Venus DUBAI
Venus ACAPULCO the latter matches

KournikovaFan91
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Throwing matches is not a good thing to start doing even if only to send a message because the other lower ranked girls will get more confident playing against you and you will begin losing to lower ranked opponents.

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Yes there isn't actually a tournament going on. That's why there are no streams. ;) Isn't it obvious?

These results are FAKE! Larry Scott needs fired! :o

Sammm
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Serena AO
Venus DUBAI
Venus ACAPULCO the latter matches


:haha:

Your definition of flawless is rather different from mine.

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:53 PM
If the title is some awful pun on the old whale trophy then shame on the OP :o

jonny84
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:54 PM
It is exciting because some players have a real good chance to make the QF/SF/F of a big event.

pica_pica
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:25 PM
WTA: Everyone got similar shares of the big pizza. Many GS winners and #1s.
ATP: Some monopolies eat up large shares and turn fat. Others are starved to death.

That's a THINK POSITIVE attitude towards WTA.

frenchie
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:28 PM
I think Venus and Serena gave ideas to the other players

Oh God, the WS are so good at launching new trends:lol:

youizahoe
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:28 PM
The ball just flies more here than elsewhere and the top women have obviously not put in enough work to adapt.

Plus no WS means why should they bother playing well since nobody is even interested in the womens side. Watch the mens over on Sky Sports if you want some quality tennis.

Miami is by far more windy than IW.

serenus_2k8
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:29 PM
WTA: Everyone got similar shares of the big pizza. Many GS winners and #1s.
ATP: Some monopolies eat up large shares and turn fat. Others are starved to death.

That's a THINK POSITIVE attitude towards WTA.


OMG :haha: You really dont understand how sport works. Talent is rewarded because quality draws crowds, entertains fans and boosts the reputation of the sport. The fact some players arent talented enough to earn what the WS etc. earn is just a fact of life that happens in all areas of business.

Trying to justify lower quality by saying its nicer is shameful.

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:34 PM
OMG :haha: You really dont understand how sport works. Talent is rewarded because quality draws crowds, entertains fans and boosts the reputation of the sport. The fact some players arent talented enough to earn what the WS etc. earn is just a fact of life that happens in all areas of business.

Trying to justify lower quality by saying its nicer is shameful.

Maybe you missed something also?

If you already know who is going to win then sport is boring. I really wouldn't get excited going to a match where the winner was certain. If the same player wins all the time and there are never any upsets, the sport's predictability becomes tedious. Drama is what draws crowds more than anything.

Also if the same old players constantly win where is there a chance for new talent to come though? Some of the upsets this tournament have been caused by young up coming players making there transition into the elite game.

entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:36 PM
If the title is some awful pun on the old whale trophy then shame on the OP :o

no, it's not, but i wish i had thought of it. :lol:

very clever of you, by the way.

Dokic-Fan
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:36 PM
I dont know but it seems like everyone is just waiting for Miami!

Yeah, but I don't understand why... :shrug: :confused:

I mean IW and Miami are equal in prize money, points and the number of players in the draw...

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 06:37 PM
no, it's not, but i wish i had thought of it. :lol:

very clever of you, by the way.

thanks :lol:

serenaforever
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:23 PM
:help:

Beat
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Plus no WS means why should they bother playing well since nobody is even interested in the womens side.

:help:

i think this tournament is really funny.

égalité
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Maybe they're trying to make the field as shitty as possible to try to entice the Williams sisters. :spit:

Br'er Rabbit
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Cascade that pink Serena outfit was one of her best back in the day, Nike and Serena needs to go back some of those outfits.

Malva
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Miami is by far more windy than IW.

How do you know? Have you been to Indian Wells and Miami?

KournikovaFan91
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Maybe you missed something also?

If you already know who is going to win then sport is boring. I really wouldn't get excited going to a match where the winner was certain. If the same player wins all the time and there are never any upsets, the sport's predictability becomes tedious. Drama is what draws crowds more than anything.

Also if the same old players constantly win where is there a chance for new talent to come though? Some of the upsets this tournament have been caused by young up coming players making there transition into the elite game.

I agree, the ATP is way too boring cause you hardly see any upsets like in WTA. In ATP you don't see people have major achievements like Zheng reaching Semi at Wimby, those sort of things are so rare in ATP.

Slutiana
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:54 PM
If the title is some awful pun on the old whale trophy then shame on the OP :o
:lol:
How do you know? Have you been to Indian Wells and Miami?
LOL. Shut up. Its a known fact that when players go to Miami, the players will always have to fight the wind as well as the opponent. You dont have to be there, you can see it through a TV screen you know, mr smartass.

DeliriousPotato
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:55 PM
How do you know? Have you been to Indian Wells and Miami?

I have to agree with him/her, you don't have to be a genius to know that. :rolleyes:
Miami faces the Atlantic and Indian Wells is in the Californian interior in the middle of the desert...

DeliriousPotato
Mar 15th, 2009, 07:56 PM
The only thing fishy about this wretched tournament is that I don't see anyone kneeling to the WS to come play again!!!

Corswandt
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Possible reasons for this mayhem:

I) extreme conditions

Strong wind, and the court seems to play odd judging from what I've seen today - very high bounce (with the wind making high bouncing moonballs fly all over the place), while the ball still seems to fly fast because of that desert air business.

II) tournament format (all those byes)

The seeds, often after a pause of several weeks, find themselves up against players who have at least one win (more, if they're qualifiers) under their belts. They are thus in form, confident, and more used to the conditions. IW and Miami have seen a lot of upsets over the years, and maybe that's no coincidence.

Malva
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:12 PM
I have to agree with him/her, you don't have to be a genius to know that. :rolleyes:
Miami faces the Atlantic and Indian Wells is in the Californian interior in the middle of the desert...

So, you draw the conclusion that Indian Wells is calm? Have you ever been to a desert? Have you ever been to Indian Wells? Have you ever been to Miami?

TNT96
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Top players are getting knocked out by younger and hungrier players who see an opportunity. Are these top players giving their all in the matches? Have not seen any yet so don't know. Dementieva's comments about wanting more time to practice and rest before Miami could mean she did what she could and is thinking about Miami already. The other current Top 10 players have never been known to win titles and dominate week in and week out

Andrew..
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:25 PM
i mean, come on, what are the odds of all these top seeds dropping like flies? :rolleyes: do you think the top women are trying to send larry scott some kind of message? conspiracy theorists, please chime in! :devil:
Nobody has anything to gain by showing up and tanking. And if nobody cared about making a statement to the tournament in 2002, nobody should care now.

young_gunner913
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:28 PM
everyone sucks. they should all retire :hearts:

serenus_2k8
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Maybe you missed something also?

If you already know who is going to win then sport is boring. I really wouldn't get excited going to a match where the winner was certain. If the same player wins all the time and there are never any upsets, the sport's predictability becomes tedious. Drama is what draws crowds more than anything.

Also if the same old players constantly win where is there a chance for new talent to come though? Some of the upsets this tournament have been caused by young up coming players making there transition into the elite game.

Hmm strange this predictability doesnt seem to stop fans of football, for example :haha: Ur point is stupid, people want a high quality match, not a whiney, miserable woman getting beaten by a nobody then sulking in her conference. At least with the mens side, an upset normally means a player has played well above himself eg Verdasco @ AO rather than someone playing beneath themselves eg any upset on the WTA.

Also, with the womens side most of these upsets happen, and then the woman responsible just dissapears again. With the mens the player regularly go on to establish themselves as top players and/or constant threats to the big names. This, again, shows the difference in quality.

Andrew..
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:30 PM
I have to agree with him/her, you don't have to be a genius to know that. :rolleyes:
Miami faces the Atlantic and Indian Wells is in the Californian interior in the middle of the desert...
Winds coming off the mountains can combine with winds coming off the water in the Coachella valley. Parts of the valley are the most consistently windy places on earth. You see this at the tournament frequently. I believe back in 2005 early in the tournament, conditions were nearly unplayable.

entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Possible reasons for this mayhem:

I) extreme conditions

Strong wind, and the court seems to play odd judging from what I've seen today - very high bounce (with the wind making high bouncing moonballs fly all over the place), while the ball still seems to fly fast because of that desert air business.

II) tournament format (all those byes)

The seeds, often after a pause of several weeks, find themselves up against players who have at least one win (more, if they're qualifiers) under their belts. They are thus in form, confident, and more used to the conditions. IW and Miami have seen a lot of upsets over the years, and maybe that's no coincidence.

didn't anyone see any of the atp matches yesterday? it was NOT windy, for pete's sake! that's not it.

entourage
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Hmm strange this predictability doesnt seem to stop fans of football, for example :haha: Ur point is stupid, people want a high quality match, not a whiney, miserable woman getting beaten by a nobody then sulking in her conference. At least with the mens side, an upset normally means a player has played well above himself eg Verdasco @ AO rather than someone playing beneath themselves eg any upset on the WTA.

Also, with the womens side most of these upsets happen, and then the woman responsible just dissapears again. With the mens the player regularly go on to establish themselves as top players and/or constant threats to the big names. This, again, shows the difference in quality.

oh, you mean like those legends pat cash, michael stich, and gaston gaudio? :)

kris719
Mar 15th, 2009, 08:51 PM
I have to agree with him/her, you don't have to be a genius to know that. :rolleyes:
Miami faces the Atlantic and Indian Wells is in the Californian interior in the middle of the desert...

I don't have to be a genius to know you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I can't speak for Miami, but having been to Indian Wells a few times I can attest that it can get quite windy out there. It certainly plays a factor.

laurie
Mar 15th, 2009, 09:07 PM
I think the players can send a message in a much more constructive way.

Things like this will happen every once in a while. AO 06 was a bit like this.

The semifinalists at the Aussie that year were Henin v Sharapova and Clisjters v Mauresmo, four of the top 10 players in the world that year, all number 1 players - don't see the comparison.

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Hmm strange this predictability doesnt seem to stop fans of football, for example :haha: Ur point is stupid

Just because I disagree with you does not make my point stupid. :rolleyes: In case you hadn't noticed, Football is slightly different to tennis. :tape: But still: Real Madrid 0-4 Liverpool ;) Upset?

At least with the mens side, an upset normally means a player has played well above himself eg Verdasco @ AO rather than someone playing beneath themselves eg any upset on the WTA.

How do you know the upsets in IW are a result of players not playing well? Were you there? As far as I'm aware that would be the only way you could have seen the match. Barring Lena's DFs there is no way to tell from the stats. And Murray clearly didn't play his best tennis in that match, I don't see you arguing that that showed 'lower quality'. You need to make up your mind what you're trying to argue. You claim that upsets indicate poor quality (on the WTA) but also that they show depth (on the ATP). By that logic how do you explain Kanepi's run in Dubai compared to Nadal's 1st round exit in Rome? Are you going to tell me that Kanepi's oppents were 'whiney, miserable' women whereas Ferrero played above himself? I suggest you watch those matches again :lol:

Also, with the womens side most of these upsets happen, and then the woman responsible just dissapears again. With the mens the player regularly go on to establish themselves as top players and/or constant threats to the big names. This, again, shows the difference in quality.

That's exactly what makes it more dramatic. It's completely unexpected, that is generally the idea of a shock upset :smash: Verdasco beating Murray was far more predicable than Lena's loss. You seem to like your stereotypes though. Agnieszka went up & up after beating Maria at USO, as did Serena after defeating Seles in 97. How do you know that Cetkovska wont be the same? Then on the other hand what has Mardy Fish done since Indian Wells last year?

You are determined to hate & critisize this tournament just because WS aren't playing. It's quite sad really. Why don't you just ignore Indian Wells threads like most other WS fans?

Kenny
Mar 15th, 2009, 09:55 PM
definitely its the unofficial fifth grand slam

Not to me. And not to many other people as well.

barmaid
Mar 15th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Indeed remarkable !! Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Jankovic but also Cibulkova and Cornet !


Here all the gals above had an excellent chance to excel especially since the "W's" are no where in sight...just goes to show what a pitiful state the WTA is in these days....no desire, no quality tennis, just a bunch of wannabees who are stuck in "the mud of boredom"....
http://forum2.hingis.org/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif Not looking forward to RG at all...... http://forum2.hingis.org/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif

Barmaid:wavey:

Andrew..
Mar 15th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Not to me. And not to many other people as well.
Prior to this year, that's understandable. Miami and IW were as good as it got outside of the slams, but Miami was clearly a step above - more prize money, ranking points, etc. Now, that is not the case. All is equal when it comes to IW vs. Miami vs. Madrid vs. Beijing.

tennisbum79
Mar 15th, 2009, 10:10 PM
Don't despair, Miamai will restore the WTA to its top billing

serenus_2k8
Mar 15th, 2009, 10:41 PM
Just because I disagree with you does not make my point stupid. :rolleyes: In case you hadn't noticed, Football is slightly different to tennis. :tape: But still: Real Madrid 0-4 Liverpool ;) Upset?



How do you know the upsets in IW are a result of players not playing well? Were you there? As far as I'm aware that would be the only way you could have seen the match. Barring Lena's DFs there is no way to tell from the stats. And Murray clearly didn't play his best tennis in that match, I don't see you arguing that that showed 'lower quality'. You need to make up your mind what you're trying to argue. You claim that upsets indicate poor quality (on the WTA) but also that they show depth (on the ATP). By that logic how do you explain Kanepi's run in Dubai compared to Nadal's 1st round exit in Rome? Are you going to tell me that Kanepi's oppents were 'whiney, miserable' women whereas Ferrero played above himself? I suggest you watch those matches again :lol:



That's exactly what makes it more dramatic. It's completely unexpected, that is generally the idea of a shock upset :smash: Verdasco beating Murray was far more predicable than Lena's loss. You seem to like your stereotypes though. Agnieszka went up & up after beating Maria at USO, as did Serena after defeating Seles in 97. How do you know that Cetkovska wont be the same? Then on the other hand what has Mardy Fish done since Indian Wells last year?

You are determined to hate & critisize this tournament just because WS aren't playing. It's quite sad really. Why don't you just ignore Indian Wells threads like most other WS fans?

I was delighted by the Liverpool result, but them hammering Real Madrid wasnt an upset. Liverpool 4-1 Man U? :drool: Anyone who doubts Liverpools credentials or their ability, particularly in Champions League doesnt know their stuff.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/13032009/58/champions-league-european-power-rankings.html :shrug:

I suggest you watch the Nadal match again, he was injured :tape: But if losing to a former #1, FO champion on clay in tight sets is a big upset to you, you need to find a different sport to watch because tennis is just going right over your head :haha:

The point I am making is for some1 to even push the likes of Nadal and Federer, they need to play amazing tennis, yet here we are with the likes of Elena and JJ playing average, ugly tennis and losing, which happens much much less on the mens tour.

For all your saying, it seems strange that Mens tennis is going from strength to strength atm, whereas the womens seems to be in a lot more trouble ;) Perhaps its just a coincidence tho hey :weirdo:

Sean.
Mar 15th, 2009, 11:10 PM
I was delighted by the Liverpool result, but them hammering Real Madrid wasnt an upset. Liverpool 4-1 Man U? :drool: Anyone who doubts Liverpools credentials or their ability, particularly in Champions League doesnt know their stuff.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/13032009/58/champions-league-european-power-rankings.html :shrug:

I repeat how can you compare football to tennis? Different sport, different circumstances. Get it? Tell me honestly did you expect Liverpool to thrash Real Madrid like that? No - therefore it's an upset!


I suggest you watch the Nadal match again, he was injured :tape: But if losing to a former #1, FO champion on clay in tight sets is a big upset to you, you need to find a different sport to watch because tennis is just going right over your head :haha:

The point I am making is for some1 to even push the likes of Nadal and Federer, they need to play amazing tennis, yet here we are with the likes of Elena and JJ playing average, ugly tennis and losing, which happens much much less on the mens tour.

Right 'injured', but fit enough to dominate Roland Garros a few weeks later! ;) You make is sound like Ferrero was at his peak and playing the best tennis of his life, not true. You competely ignored what I said about Kanepi because it didn't fit with your stereotypes. Are you going to tell me that Canas was playing amazing tennis when he beat Fed in IW last year? Or will you finally admit that male seeds can play shitty tenis too sometimes?

Bar Nadal & Federer there is no-one nearly as consistent on the mens tour, how can you say that you always have to play well to beat a seed on the ATP when you have the likes of Gasquet, Safin & Davydenko loosing regularly. You have no proof that Nastya & Petra didn't play amazing tennis to win yesterday as you didn't watch the match, so that argument is moot.

For all your saying, it seems strange that Mens tennis is going from strength to strength atm, whereas the womens seems to be in a lot more trouble ;) Perhaps its just a coincidence tho hey :weirdo:

This just goes back to what I said earlier. In my view it's not going from strenght to strength. The same people constantly winning indicated a lack of depth where only the top players play well. I find endless top-spin forehands boring. The only matches which are worth watching, in my view, are finals between the top players - which is the only time that they have competition. Unlike you however I am prepared to admit that other people have different oppinions on the ATP, which is why I don't regularly insult everyone but my faves on MTF. Maybe you could try that here?

mckyle.
Mar 16th, 2009, 12:24 AM
If you look at the draws from the past three years, the #32 seed was ranked 49, 46, and 46. That means a lot of top players used to withdraw from this event. This year they were forced to play, but they all lost early because they couldn't care less about this tournament.

Ryan
Mar 16th, 2009, 01:40 AM
Serena AO
Venus DUBAI
Venus ACAPULCO the latter matches



You just showed how little you know about tennis, if you think that was all flawless tennis. :weirdo:

Harvs
Mar 16th, 2009, 02:21 AM
lol. no.