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View Full Version : Serena hasn't had an "edge" over Venus since 2003


VeeReeDavJCap81
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:09 PM
In the www thread the other day people kept saying how Serena had a slight edge mentally over Vee and that didn't sit right with me. It clearly is not true that Serena has a mental edge considering the h2h SINCE 2003 is now 5-2 and the matches Serena did win Venus had chances to win in both.

I like both sisters equally so I'm not out to bash or start anything, just stating theobvous.

Demska
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:09 PM
I agree.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:12 PM
well in 2 of the last 5 matches Venus won, Serena had chances to win as well :shrug:

They play in ebbs and flows....first it was Venus who won a lot of the matches, then it was Serena, now it's Venus again :shrug:

...it's called a rivalry for a reason.

volta
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:15 PM
well in 2 of the last 5 matches Venus won, Serena had chances to win as well :shrug:

They play in ebbs and flows....first it was Venus who won a lot of the matches, then it was Serena, now it's Venus again :shrug:

...it's called a rivalry for a reason.

i agree.

like i've been saying now, the girls just got over the fact that they are sisters and just want to win the match. their matches have been a toss up now wich is great.

i think ppl who said that on the WWW were basing their opinion on the Usopen match that's all

bandabou
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Movement, movement..

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Movement, movement..

so true........ thats why Venus has the edge.... anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded....Serena is slow, if she wants the edge back she needs to get back into 2002 shape, which sadly for her is not possible at this stage in her career....

Serena's "devasting attacking tennis" is neutralized if you put her on the run....

Volcana
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:26 PM
2005 MIAMI ...... QTR Venus ... 6-1 7-6
2005 US OPEN .... R16 Venus ... 7-6 6-2
2008 BANGALORE .. SMI Serena .. 6-3 3-6 7-6
2008 WIMBLEDON .. FNL Venus ... 7-5 6-4
2008 US OPEN .... QTR Serena .. 7-6 7-6
2008 YEC ........ Rd1 Venus ... 5-7 6-1 6-0
2009 DUBAI ...... SMI Venus ... 6-1 2-6 7-6

serenus_2k8
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:26 PM
Well without making excuses, Serena does face Venus at some unfortunate times, when her health is in question ie the last 2 matches. That being said, I think matches like today show what an underachiever Venus is at the hardcourt slams. She should be consistantly making the last 4 at least :shrug:

volta
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:27 PM
2005 MIAMI ...... QTR Venus ... 6-1 7-6
2005 US OPEN .... R16 Venus ... 7-6 6-2
2008 BANGALORE .. SMI Serena .. 6-3 3-6 7-6
2008 WIMBLEDON .. FNL Venus ... 7-5 6-4
2008 US OPEN .... QTR Serena .. 7-6 7-6
2008 YEC ........ Rd1 Venus ... 5-7 6-1 6-0
2009 DUBAI ...... SMI Venus ... 6-1 2-6 7-6

fixed :devil:

according to some :angel:

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:30 PM
Well without making excuses, Serena does face Venus at some unfortunate times, when her health is in question ie the last 2 matches. That being said, I think matches like today show what an underachiever Venus is at the hardcourt slams. She should be consistantly making the last 4 at least :shrug:

Nice to see Venus has got a good hand for her win off you:)

Volcana
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:32 PM
so true........ thats why Venus has the edge.... anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded....Serena is slow, if she wants the edge back she needs to get back into 2002 shape, which sadly for her is not possible at this stage in her career....

Serena's "devasting attacking tennis" is neutralized if you put her on the run....Okay, we ae talking about the reigning US Open and Australian Open champion, right? The current #1 ranked player? Maybe 2009 shape is just fine for winning slams, even if it won't beat Venus most of the time. Serena plays the other players on the tour better than Venus does, which is ultimately why Serena wins more slams.

Calypso
Feb 20th, 2009, 06:16 PM
so true........ thats why Venus has the edge.... anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded....Serena is slow, if she wants the edge back she needs to get back into 2002 shape, which sadly for her is not possible at this stage in her career....

Serena's "devasting attacking tennis" is neutralized if you put her on the run....

I agree.

Catsuitrena is still the most spectacular player I've ever seen. Right now, Venus can handle Serena's power better than most, and once she turns it to a running contest Vee has a slight advantage.

But Serena is sooo good that she can still turn alot of tough rallies with Venus to her advantage, and can still hit a lot of amazing winners as well. Her serve, when on, is still a devastating weapon.

Because of her slight disadvantage in mobility, I think Serena tries to go for a winner a touch too early sometimes against Venus. I also don't remember Serena hitting so many slices in a match against a fellow big hitter.

Uranium
Feb 20th, 2009, 06:25 PM
2005 MIAMI ...... QTR Venus ... 6-1 7-6
2005 US OPEN .... R16 Venus ... 7-6 6-2
2008 BANGALORE .. SMI Serena .. 6-3 3-6 7-6
2008 WIMBLEDON .. FNL Venus ... 7-5 6-4
2008 US OPEN .... QTR Serena .. 7-6 7-6
2008 YEC ........ Rd1 Venus ... 5-7 6-1 6-0
2009 DUBAI ...... SMI Venus ... 6-1 2-6 7-6

Venus had MP in Bangalore and Set points at USO as well to winning those 5 matches:eek:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Feb 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
so true........ thats why Venus has the edge.... anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded....Serena is slow, if she wants the edge back she needs to get back into 2002 shape, which sadly for her is not possible at this stage in her career....

Serena's "devasting attacking tennis" is neutralized if you put her on the run....

Naw, that sounds like an excuse. Serena has won four grandslams since her surgery in '03 so her movement didn't stop her from beating other top players so no different vs. Vee. Venus has just been the more mentally stable player in THEIR matches since '03, against other players though Serena has been better.

V's a star
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:01 PM
well in 2 of the last 5 matches Venus won, Serena had chances to win as well :shrug:

They play in ebbs and flows....first it was Venus who won a lot of the matches, then it was Serena, now it's Venus again :shrug:

...it's called a rivalry for a reason.

what r u talking about?????:cuckoo: did Serena have setpoints or matchpoints in either of those matches NO:tape: not comparable sorry

TSequoia01
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Vee's advanage is due to basically two things....well make it three things. One, her forehand is much umproved and lethal. Two, Serena's mobility is impaired compared to 02,03. Third, Venus' big serve and second serve are more consistent. Overall Venus has improved, and Serena has declined a tad.

azinna
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Venus needs to up her consistency against other players. It's part of the reason folks give Serena the mental edge over her. It's an error in assessment (the www thread should be about the match between them, not their chances of winning the next slam), but it does point to what's really been hurting Venus in her quest to be a multi-slam winner again.

The Daviator
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
what r u talking about?????:cuckoo: did Serena have setpoints or matchpoints in either of those matches NO:tape: not comparable sorry

Serena came closer to winning today than Venus did at the US Open.

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:34 PM
Naw, that sounds like an excuse. Serena has won four grandslams since her surgery in '03 so her movement didn't stop her from beating other top players so no different vs. Vee. Venus has just been the more mentally stable player in THEIR matches since '03, against other players though Serena has been better.

lol.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME.... Serena has won 4 slams since her surgery in 5 years....

before her surgery she was 5 slams in 6 tournaments......

Dodoboy.
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/3a/fullj.deb087bd2538d662ef18700af02c92a2/deb087bd2538d662ef18700af02c92a2-getty-tennis-wta-uae-venus.jpg

Uranium
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Serena came closer to winning today than Venus did at the US Open.

But Venus was closer at Bangalore.:p

starin
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
I disagree that Venus has a big edge over Serena right now. I'd say they're pretty even about now and the winner in their matches is whoever is mentally stronger.

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:46 PM
I disagree that Venus has a big edge over Serena right now. I'd say they're pretty even about now and the winner in their matches is whoever is mentally stronger.

I didnt say she has a big edge, but shes got one and the head to head shows it IMO 5-2.... the matches are close, but Venus ends up with it in the end. I dont think its "mental" cause Serena is the greatest mentally of her generation and maybe all generations....... so if that were the case she would be winning them

harloo
Feb 20th, 2009, 08:06 PM
I disagree that Venus has a big edge over Serena right now. I'd say they're pretty even about now and the winner in their matches is whoever is mentally stronger.

It's always been a mental battle during their matches. This is why I never predict who will win by previous form. And the OP has it wrong, rarely has anybody stated that Serena has an edge over Venus during their encounters. Considering the close H2H's that statement would be foolish.

Where Serena has the edge is how she plays other players on tour. She doesn't lose important matches as often as her big sister. Everything isn't revolved around Serena beating Venus and vice versa. Some of the more rabid Venus only supporters believe her downfall had to do with Serena's uprising over the years. They can't accept that little sister is just as good if not better than big sister.:lol:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Feb 20th, 2009, 08:28 PM
It's always been a mental battle during their matches. This is why I never predict who will win by previous form. And the OP has it wrong, rarely has anybody stated that Serena has an edge over Venus during their encounters. Considering the close H2H's that statement would be foolish.

Where Serena has the edge is how she plays other players on tour. She doesn't lose important matches as often as her big sister. Everything isn't revolved around Serena beating Venus and vice versa. Some of the more rabid Venus only supporters believe her downfall had to do with Serena's uprising over the years. They can't accept that little sister is just as good if not better than big sister.:lol:

Well if you read the original post, all I was saying is that in the www thread several people were saying that Serena had a slight edge mentally over Venus, which is not true according to their h2h since 2003. Seems as if you made your own interpretation of what I said.

vwfan
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:12 PM
Movement, movement..in a nutshell.;)

vwfan
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:22 PM
the second serve used to be the big difference; now it's movement and advantage Venus.

the mental stuff will always be there, which despite everything to do with their technical games, makes predicting a winner pretty tough.

50Sense
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:24 PM
This very well may be true, but luckily for both of them their tennis careers consist of playing a whole bunch more girls than just each other. And Serena seems to have an edge on damn near everyone.

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:28 PM
It's often overlooked that Venus has improved her game technically. I'm not seeing a forehand where the contact point if forever changing, and her second serve has really started to stabilise of late.

Even back in 01/03, her second serve was extremely short and predictable, because she relied so heavily on the slice which would always go to the forehand of a right-handed opponent, and against Serena that was always a major problem, especially when you consider how good Serena's second serve was. If you look at today's match, she was putting more spin on the serve, and placing it to Serena's backhand more, and then changeing it up into the forehand to keep Serena off balance.

I'm not saying this is why Venus has the h2h in hyer advantage, but more solidity in her game recently has contributed to more wins IMO.

50Sense
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:34 PM
Oh and how come Venus can't bring this game everywhere? She didn't play her best, but didn't waver nearly as much as she normally does. I guess Serena's overly used "Everyone seems to bring their best against me" line applies to her sister as well.

The Dawntreader
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Oh and how come Venus can't bring this game everywhere? She didn't play her best, but didn't waver nearly as much as she normally does. I guess Serena's overly used "Everyone seems to bring their best against me" line applies to her sister as well.

Because she's notoriously erratic. However if we were reading her game on a technical basis, there have been improvements which can stand up well to Serena's game.

V's a star
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:47 PM
Oh and how come Venus can't bring this game everywhere? She didn't play her best, but didn't waver nearly as much as she normally does. I guess Serena's overly used "Everyone seems to bring their best against me" line applies to her sister as well.

:yawn: