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Volcana
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:41 PM
It easy, when it's been so long since we've seen her play well, to lump Ivanovic in with Sharapova and Safina and Dementieva and Vaidisova and Kuznetsova, and even, to my dismay, Venus* sometimes.

Ball-basher. Just run back and forth along the baseline, hitting as hard as you can. Brainless, boring tennis.

Ivanovic, is no ball basher. In fact, I must say, she has a very pretty game. She actually knows how to use a slice as an offensive weapon, she hit drop shots from the back half of the court that Serena couldn't run down. Serena. And of course, she can hit the hell out of the ball. And she moves pretty well, actually. Her top speed isn't that fast, but her footwork is good. She's more fluid than Sharapova or Safina, gets to net set up right ...

I've been writing, for a while now, that Venus Williams has the most effective volleys in the top ten. If that was an example of Ivanovic-normal then Ivanovic has the most effective volleys in the top ten. She reminded me of Hingis a couple times, with her choices at net.

I will certainly be looking forward to seeing her play again, and I can see her winning IW.

*Venus-defenders, relax! Remember, I'm one of you. Yes she topspins, yes she comes to net more than most, but Venus is a defensive player. It just doesn't look like defense because she's usually hitting harder, more difficult shots than the opponent. However, this thread is not about my favorite player. It's about Ana Ivanovic.

Selah
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:45 PM
You sound like you are now discovering her game. What you mentioned is why she will always do well on the red clay.

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:47 PM
I like Ana. Every since I say her hold her ground against Venus in their first meeting in Zurich, I was like :eek:

hablo
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:51 PM
I think Sharpie may be a bit faster than Ana, actually.

spiritedenergy
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:51 PM
When Ana can get her head together, she has a nice, smooth all around game that is beautiful to watch. The best i've seen from her was from the second set of a match she played last year against Petrova during her slump. Of course then she lost the third set.:rolleyes:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:56 PM
Elena has no firepower , not a ballbasher imo

Volcana
Feb 19th, 2009, 06:59 PM
You sound like you are now discovering her game. What you mentioned is why she will always do well on the red clay.I have a faint recollection of a tall darkhaired player with a stylish game, but I thought she'd retired or something.:)

I haven't seen Ivanovic play like that since, well, more to the point, everytime I've seen her since she's looked ... blah. I actually started collecting the stats for a thread about it. The quality of the players she's been losing to since RG last year ...

If she can find her way back from the wilderness, I'd say the WTA has two stars to build on for the Williams-less to come. I mean, what has been going on with her?

Dave.
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:05 PM
She's never been a brainless ballbasher, I thought everyone already knew that. :confused: She couldn't be with that backhand which has all sorts of pace changes throughout a match.


Anyway, there is nothing "unpretty" about ballbashing either.

gaviotabr
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:06 PM
Ana has a nice all around game, some great touch.. if she is playing well. If she isn't, she usually gets brainless..

But her game is not about hitting hard. It's about setting up her forehand. And lately she has been almost a net rusher, going to the net in every game to some good results. She had some great volleys, slices and pick ups today. And she was also defending very well. I love Ana's squash forehand. I really hope she can keep improving and moving foward with her game.

faboozadoo15
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I don't understand your analysis, if that's what that was supposed to be.

By what you say, almost all the top women are ball bashers.

If you watch more matches from Ana, she has wildly good days at the net and some where she's completely flat, net rushing at bad times.

And according to you, Venus would be a risky, hard hitting, defensive player? :tape:

starin
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:10 PM
She's a ball basher just as much as Sharapova/WS/Davenport are ball bashers which is to say she's not.

Ciarán
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Volcano: Troll

Trixie
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Ana is a champion, I think in some ways her game is very raw. If she learns to manage her emotions and can own her game, she will be a great champion.

gaviotabr
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Ana is a champion, I think in some ways her game is very raw. If she learns to manage her emotions and can own her game, she will be a great champion.

I agree. Ana's game is still very raw. She needs some development, and can become a great player in the future.

Apoleb
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:24 PM
I agree. Ana's game is still very raw. She needs some development, and can become a great player in the future.

The problem is that she's very slow at maturing and developing.

Miss Amor
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Ana has a lot to learn, but I agree, she is not a ballbasher.

Andy.
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:33 PM
I think Maria's ground strokes are more fluid and have better control and depth. There is just something about Ana's groundstrokes that doesnt appeal to me they seem sort of jerky and riggid. Ana does use decent variety though off her backhand but she really is forced to do so because her backhand topspin can often fall short and without a great deal of pace. She is an improving volleyer though. I think she is better than Maria at the net but Maria beats her mid court with the swing volleys. When she is playing badly Ana is a ball basher or alternatly she goes into this horrible pusher mode. When she is playing well she is an attacking all court player with an awesome first strike ability off the forehand.

gaviotabr
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:39 PM
The problem is that she's very slow at maturing and developing.

Well.. everyone has a different timing. Henin, for an example, wasn't a great player until 22.. and only had her best year on tour when she was 25. Mauresmo the same... Ana is young, she has time ahead of her to develop and mature... it's not like she is 28.

theDreamer
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM
I agree. Ana's game is still very raw. She needs some development, and can become a great player in the future.

I agree that she has some improvements to make (why hasn't she
made those improvements in all this time?),
but I don't necessarily think she will become much greater
than she is now. I think her slow footspeed and weakness on fast/low
bouncing surfaces will always be a limiting factor.
She might win one/two more grandslams, maybe.
I hope I'm wrong, I hope she wins more...

gaviotabr
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:22 PM
I agree that she has some improvements to make (why hasn't she
made those improvements in all this time?),
but I don't necessarily think she will become much greater
than she is now. I think her slow footspeed and weakness on fast/low
bouncing surfaces will always be a limiting factor.
She might win one/two more grandslams, maybe.
I hope I'm wrong, I hope she wins more...

All this time? Ana only has 4 full seasons on tour.. She has had a steady development until the slump hit her. I think she can become much better.. she needs to improve her shot selection, to think on different solutions on court. She can get her forehand to be more consistent.. and it's already a deadly shot. She can improve her backhand and her footwork. Her defense has improved greatly in the last couple of seasons, but still can get better. Most of all, what can make a difference is learning to aply her variety of shots.. she has the slice, she has the volleys, she has some touch.. though she can still improve all that. By becoming more of an all around player, and still using her forehand to finish off points, she can get a lot better. But sure.. that may or may not happen, I can't read the future.

About the slams.. It's not like the Williams sisters will be winning slams until 2020. They are 27 and 28.. out of current young top players, apart from Sharapova, who else will be challenging for slams? Ana is definitely there.. especially at the French Open. Roland Garros will never be a walk in the park for either Serena, Venus or Sharapova. They all may win it.. And I'm sure Serena will win it again. But I'm not so sure she will win 2 or 3 times in a row.. it will always be an open slam, and Ana actually holds the best record there out of any active player. The girl is only 21... she deserves to be given some time.

frenchie
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:26 PM
I've never put Ivanovic in the ball basher category (which I hate!:o)
But I don't like the direction she's giving to her game. She's more and more a ball basher IMO, refusing rallies, trying to outhit opponent on every shot...
Safina is doing the same recently:mad:

Why are WTA players changing their game so much lately with very few success : Chakvetadze, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina...
Stick to your gamestyle girls:help:

danieln1
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Agreed, she is not a ballbasher, actually she thinks a lot on court and has so much variety to her game! It´s great to see her play, and with her new forays to the net, she has become even more enjoyable to watch!
RG will be nice this year!

The Daviator
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:34 PM
Everyone who hits a big ball is a ball-basher though :o :rolleyes: Ana has nice variety in her game, and she uses it effectively, especially the slice which is a very successful shot for her, there are times though when she is in 100% BBB-mode (see Julie Coin-gate :o) but she's a natural talent, not manufactured by Bollietieri or some other guru :p

Monirena Wiles
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:41 PM
Everyone who hits a big ball is a ball-basher though :o :rolleyes: Ana has nice variety in her game, and she uses it effectively, especially the slice which is a very successful shot for her, there are times though when she is in 100% BBB-mode (see Julie Coin-gate :o) but she's a natural talent, not manufactured by Bollietieri or some other guru :pI agree with this post.

gaviotabr
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:51 PM
Everyone who hits a big ball is a ball-basher though :o :rolleyes: Ana has nice variety in her game, and she uses it effectively, especially the slice which is a very successful shot for her, there are times though when she is in 100% BBB-mode (see Julie Coin-gate :o) but she's a natural talent, not manufactured by Bollietieri or some other guru :p

When Ana is playing like crap (see Coin match), she becomes a total brainless ballbasher, with no idea of what to do. That's why it's so good to see her getting some of her form back. She is a great player to watch when playing well, a natural talent, a ball striker.. :hearts:

Dave.
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:56 PM
I think Maria's ground strokes are more fluid and have better control and depth. There is just something about Ana's groundstrokes that doesnt appeal to me they seem sort of jerky and riggid. Ana does use decent variety though off her backhand but she really is forced to do so because her backhand topspin can often fall short and without a great deal of pace. She is an improving volleyer though. I think she is better than Maria at the net but Maria beats her mid court with the swing volleys. When she is playing badly Ana is a ball basher or alternatly she goes into this horrible pusher mode. When she is playing well she is an attacking all court player with an awesome first strike ability off the forehand.

Why are you comparing Ana to Maria?

spiritedenergy
Feb 19th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Why are you comparing Ana to Maria?

That's what Sharapova's fans always do whenever another player is discussed. Just ignore:o

Mashafaaaaan
Feb 19th, 2009, 10:06 PM
Why are you comparing Ana to Maria?

Agreed, Ana can be compared to Davenport, def. not Maria.

DokicPova
Feb 19th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Trollcana = Annoying.

SV_Fan
Feb 19th, 2009, 10:47 PM
Venus is know ball basher.

Dave.
Feb 19th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Agreed, Ana can be compared to Davenport, def. not Maria.

Ana doesn't need to be compared to anyone. :shrug:

but yes, there is a much closer comparison between Ana and Lindsay (their ball striking, class, talent etc.) than there is with Maria.

Ryan
Feb 19th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Great post by Volcana I think. Ana certainly can employ slices, volleys and dropshots into her game when she is playing well - the worst is when she retreats into a shell and just hits hard without trying to construct a point (ie post RG through Dubai).

I don't see the point in comparing her to Maria...Ana gets more power off the forehand, less off the backhand, Maria has better swing volleys, Ana way better volleys and variety, and Maria's serve is better when both serves are "on".

simplydeep
Feb 19th, 2009, 11:31 PM
It easy, when it's been so long since we've seen her play well, to lump Ivanovic in with Sharapova and Safina and Dementieva and Vaidisova and Kuznetsova, and even, to my dismay, Venus* sometimes.

Ball-basher. Just run back and forth along the baseline, hitting as hard as you can. Brainless, boring tennis.

Ivanovic, is no ball basher. In fact, I must say, she has a very pretty game. She actually knows how to use a slice as an offensive weapon, she hit drop shots from the back half of the court that Serena couldn't run down. Serena. And of course, she can hit the hell out of the ball. And she moves pretty well, actually. Her top speed isn't that fast, but her footwork is good. She's more fluid than Sharapova or Safina, gets to net set up right ...

I've been writing, for a while now, that Venus Williams has the most effective volleys in the top ten. If that was an example of Ivanovic-normal then Ivanovic has the most effective volleys in the top ten. She reminded me of Hingis a couple times, with her choices at net.

I will certainly be looking forward to seeing her play again, and I can see her winning IW.

*Venus-defenders, relax! Remember, I'm one of you. Yes she topspins, yes she comes to net more than most, but Venus is a defensive player. It just doesn't look like defense because she's usually hitting harder, more difficult shots than the opponent. However, this thread is not about my favorite player. It's about Ana Ivanovic.

I have to agree with you on some points, I have always liked the look of Ana's game when she first started coming up she did bash the ball and didn't have much control but she reigned it in to get it in court but did maximum damage and it is a weapon but what she has done is add the touch and feel to her ever growing game. When she added the slice to her game it sat up invitingly for opponents to hit the stuffing out of the ball, she was not a great mover but again she got better and she can not only attack but can also defend very well. It showed in this match in one point where Serena was moving Ana about and had the winner on her racquet but Ana was defending so well until Serena dumped the f.h into the net.

However you seem to think Serena is not that fast but I beg to differ, Serena may look as though she can't motor but i think she can, she not only forces herself but wills herself to get to balls that seem impossible to get to, not only can she sometimes get there but she does something with the return, either up high or flat hard cross court and even go for a winner down the line. In the same match Serena was moved wide to the f.h side and managed to not only get there but bang a cross court f.h deep to Ana’s f.h who failed to return it. This is just one of the examples that when Serena wills herself to get to a ball that most would accept as winners. Against Jeng Serena was messing by just hitting hard but soon changed her game plan and begun playing the ball slower and using the short angle cross to pull Jeng way wide of the tramline making it impossible for Jeng to get to the return and if she did the court was wide up for an easy winner, this worked a treat. Serena was successful with this same shot today against Ana. Ana however matched Serena for power but when it counted Serena got the shots in. Mentally Serena is tougher than Ana hence her able to come back from 1-4 down to win the match. When Ana needed to be solid her shots were in the net, long or wide and when she needed a first serve she played a double fault.

Even when Serena is playing badly she has the ability to calm down and take a deep breath and start again something that Ana does not have, something that I feels these up and comers skip yet this is an important asset to their game, to just take a deep breath and get rid of the negative thoughts and wipe away bad shot selection and start again. Serena is now more than ever able to take pace of the ball and rally with her opponents and uses the slice to great effect to slow down pace and or change the rhythm of matches, she can even use the drop shot which she rarely uses but is another great addition to her game.

Yes I fully agree that Venus is the better vollier though it is not technically sound she gets the job done and gets it done well but sometimes her grip can let her down, dumping shots into the net. Venus is very strong and uses her serve but again that can break down as well as her trusty f.h. Movement is another wonderful aspect of Venus' game Dementieva tried to move Venus around hoping she would spray the ball but it was her in the end making the errors and yet more double faults. The Williams sister do 2 things either they make you play worse then them or the just dish out and a** whooping. I think ONLY Justine Henin could really expose their weaknesses, she knew how to nullify their power and force them to play out of their comfort zone and weaken there strength especially emotional Serena. That is why i can understand when they say they are almost fully responsible for winning and losing matches.

Could she be compared to the ladies you mention yes and no because all hit the ball very hard, but what she has is the feel and touch which is what will keep her in the top ten, what i have not seen is when things are not working for her, to find a plan b and go to that in the few seconds at the end of a losing set something which both Williams sisters do have. It is rather easy to beat a weak opponent but just how do you find a way when someone if playing great and striking the ball well how do you find the win from that, how do you change the momentum, what can you employ to swing thing in your favor that is what i have not seen.

I think season will be good though she went out early at the Aus open since getting her coach, dropping a few spots in the ranking. She has had time to work on her game and get things back to together. Since the sports news is now all eyes on Jankovic, Safina,, Dementieva and Vera the pressure is off Ana who can build in confidence and get back to winning ways.

My advice to Ana would be play doubles.

DokicPova
Feb 19th, 2009, 11:52 PM
serena is a ball basher aswell, want a quality classy player HINGIS.

Nicolás89
Feb 20th, 2009, 12:00 AM
What I like about her is that all of her shots are technically perfect except the serve of course. :)

Martian Jeza
Feb 20th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Yeah, Serena and Venus aren't ballbashers : OMG ! Those deluded WS fans or glory hunts, up to you to chose live trully in another world. Everything they do, they make, they think, etc. is great ! Other players ? No, they just are shite, are dumb, can't play tennis at all 'cause they don't have their tennis butcher's style of game ... Make more and more bashing topics about other players but the WS ; you only prove you only care about the WS, not Tennis itselfs ! And stop asking respect for the WS as you have no respect at all for other players !

jdtennisusa
Feb 20th, 2009, 03:39 AM
Yeah, Serena and Venus aren't ballbashers : OMG ! Those deluded WS fans or glory hunts, up to you to chose live trully in another world. Everything they do, they make, they think, etc. is great ! Other players ? No, they just are shite, are dumb, can't play tennis at all 'cause they don't have their tennis butcher's style of game ... Make more and more bashing topics about other players but the WS ; you only prove you only care about the WS, not Tennis itselfs ! And stop asking respect for the WS as you have no respect at all for other players !

Your post, ma chere, is a fine example of HYPERBOLE and overgeneralization at its worst.

Since, obviously, you have no respect for the Williams sisters, why should you demand the fans of the Williams sisters to have respect for other players? By the way, I do not believe that all Williams sisters' fans do not have respect for other players. That's your delusion.

Martian Jeza
Feb 20th, 2009, 03:48 AM
Your post, ma chere, is a fine example of HYPERBOLE and overgeneralization at its worst.

Since, obviously, you have no respect for the Williams sisters, why should you demand the fans of the Williams sisters to have respect for other players? By the way, I do not believe that all Williams sisters' fans do not have respect for other players. That's your delusion.

At least, I'm not a hypocrite ! Never asked respect towards Martina as I've loads of auto-derision . I'm not as deluded as the WS who ask constantly respect towards the sisters when they love to bash all the other players...

mboyle
Feb 20th, 2009, 03:54 AM
Volcano: Troll

oh fuck off. Volcana is one of the best posters on this board and we are lucky to have him/her (sorry V I forget which you are:o ).

Orbis
Feb 20th, 2009, 04:00 AM
While I'd love to completely agree, I can't. Your analysis is completely correct, however, this is for Ana when she's playing well or with confidence. Her game can be so variable, and when she plays her worst tennis it can be unbelievable ugly. Still, most of the time she makes good use of her other shots and her volleys are getting better but it's still all based on her confidence. She can play very "pretty" tennis sometimes.

morningglory
Feb 20th, 2009, 04:18 AM
The problem is that she's very slow at maturing and developing.

well, it's not like she needs to hurry :shrug:
The era after the WS is most likely to be really weak

McPie
Feb 20th, 2009, 05:31 AM
The another Problem is she face Williams, and Williams is Tank :lol: and she has no Bazooka :lol:

InsideOut.
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:13 AM
What I like about her is that all of her shots are technically perfect except the serve of course. :)

The serve itself is OK. Check out the kickers she hit against Serena. :) The toss is :o

slamchamp
Feb 20th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Volcano: TrollBingo

laurie
Feb 20th, 2009, 12:47 PM
Ana Ivanovic is one of those interesting players who always divides opinion. If you take a Henin, give and take a few issues most people would be in agreement about her game, potential, technique etc when she was up and coming.

Ivanovic is pretty much the opposite, some people think she could win a few slams, others think she will win 2 at most. Some think she's a ball basher, others think she isn't etc etc.

I can't quite make up my mind on her. She looks great when she's playing well but it looks all dreadful when she's not on top of her game. She always looks like she's in a hurry like she's late for an appointment, she just needs to slow down slightly and be more composed, she often appears flustered.

As for her game? Well, I don't think she's one of the best movers on the court for sure. Players who don't move as well as others should take the Andre Agassi/Lindsay Davenport approach which is to control the middle of the court and manouvre your opponent as much as possible. To do that though you have to try to keep the unforced error count down. Ana's serve is also not technically sound right now, especially when she gets too nervous, she throws the ball too far to the right, she needs to work on that. Ana has a great forehand when it's on so she should look to make sure it becomes a stable shot of hers which holds up even when she's nervous.

Glad to hear that she is trying to come to net more.

I think potentially Ana has 5 slams in her if she improves and reaches her potential.

Kworb
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:28 PM
Blah blah blah. Ivanovic is nothing but a ball basher. She is trying other stuff because she failed so hard after reaching #1. Ball bashing will never get you longevity. Look at her and Vaidisova. Struggling to even win a match. Real talented players like Serena, Venus, Elena and Maria can do more than bash the ball. Ivanovic can't do anything because she is just hopeless in every way. She'll drop out of the top 10 and never come back.

FERLKE
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Maria can do more than bash the ball

:spit: :tape:

Costanza
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Real talented players like Serena, Venus, Elena and Maria can do more than bash the ball.

:bowdown::spit::haha:

shap_half
Feb 20th, 2009, 04:36 PM
Ana Ivanovic is one of those interesting players who always divides opinion. If you take a Henin, give and take a few issues most people would be in agreement about her game, potential, technique etc when she was up and coming.

Ivanovic is pretty much the opposite, some people think she could win a few slams, others think she will win 2 at most. Some think she's a ball basher, others think she isn't etc etc.

I can't quite make up my mind on her. She looks great when she's playing well but it looks all dreadful when she's not on top of her game. She always looks like she's in a hurry like she's late for an appointment, she just needs to slow down slightly and be more composed, she often appears flustered.

As for her game? Well, I don't think she's one of the best movers on the court for sure. Players who don't move as well as others should take the Andre Agassi/Lindsay Davenport approach which is to control the middle of the court and manouvre your opponent as much as possible. To do that though you have to try to keep the unforced error count down. Ana's serve is also not technically sound right now, especially when she gets too nervous, she throws the ball too far to the right, she needs to work on that. Ana has a great forehand when it's on so she should look to make sure it becomes a stable shot of hers which holds up even when she's nervous.

Glad to hear that she is trying to come to net more.

I think potentially Ana has 5 slams in her if she improves and reaches her potential.

I agree, but Ana is very young and she's still developing her game. Even Justine Henin spent her entire career tweaking her game so she can compete as efficiently as possible. I don't think any top player has been as consistent with shaping her game as much as Henin did with hers. I do think that Ana would do well to strengthen her transition game. It's great to see her going to the net more, and I think really focusing on that would do her well. She's tall and she seems to have great reflexes and touch up there so I can only see this as giving her game another dimension that many top players are lacking. With a backhand like hers, winning off the ground is never going to come easy. So she'll need to work on that some more and really make it less or a liability or she can change up her game with more net play. Hopefully she'll do both. Mauresmo's forehand is sometimes atrocious, but she didn't need to play it all that much because she knew where her strengths were.