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View Full Version : Am I the only one that feels Vee is the best when at her best?


SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:24 PM
It seems like everyone think POva, Henin, and Ree. But Venus has an all around game, and when at her best she is the true number 1 no if ands or buts about it.

calabar
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:29 PM
It seems like everyone think POva, Henin, and Ree. But Venus has an all around game, and when at her best she is the true number 1 no if ands or buts about it.
Such keen insight.

Caillou
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:30 PM
uhm...i dont know if she is the best. but she is definately one of them..she has such huge potential for sure..

VishaalMaria
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Is this supposed to be a bait thread for her haters?

Because it's going to be hook, line and sinker.

But I do agree with you.

tennisIlove09
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:33 PM
I think Richard said it best "if Venus puts her MIND to it, she is the best". sometimes i think she starts to think funny or gets tense. but when she's clear in mind, she is the best player.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:35 PM
If at her best means more than her stokes. Mentally off the radar even when she's been playing well. A.O., and almost every year she goes to RG.

I'd give the slight edge to Serena

Serena
Venus



Justine
Maria

Olórin
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Player forum :shrug:

The Dawntreader
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Venus is the most dynamic, powerful athlete since Steffi Graf when she's on, and almost unbeatable.

Serena gets the edge though, due to the mental aspects.

Bounty Hunter
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:37 PM
No, I think Venus is the best when at her worst.

SAEKeithSerena
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:37 PM
slight edge to serena...

frenchie
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Serena > Venus > Hingis > Henin > Davenport

Mashafaaaaan
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Serena - Sharapova - Henin

Venus.

olympus28
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Clearly Venus when she is at her best

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:49 PM
I think venus. She hits harder and cleaner, she just as tough mentally has ree, and she does more.

Diesel
Feb 18th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Unfortunately for Vee there have been more if ands or buts lately to counter this greatness.

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Unfortunately for Vee there have been more if ands or buts lately to counter this greatness.


what do you mean?

Leo_DFP
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:06 PM
Serena - Sharapova - Henin

Venus.

Delusional.

mdterp01
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:08 PM
Venus takes walkabouts too much and can still have days where her serving and unforced errors kill her. She has Venus beat in the movement department and net play. When all is clicking, there is no beating Venus Williams.

sammy01
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:11 PM
on clay even at her best i think the very top girls (im talking serena, jankovic) will still have her number. on grass if venus plays even just well shes gonna win. hardcourts a couple of girls can pick her off in top form.

Mashafaaaaan
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Delusional.

That's not exactly what Navratilova said, but anyway, she said Serena and Sharapova are the best at their real level. I prefer listening to a champion like her rather you;)

Olórin
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:14 PM
The thing is, at the end of the day, Venus is a rhythym player, she herself has said it. She is ultimately a fast court player. She is excellent on all surfaces but she will never play her best on a medium hardcourt or a clay court. It's great if you're unbeatable when you place your best, however if you can only do it on two courts in the world and once every 5 years I don't really see that it's meaningful.

I mean Venus played what you might call "near her best" against Safina last october and then lost to Jankovic in the next round :shrug: That makes me think what is Venus' best? Was she anywhere near it. I think Venus' best isn't hitting hard or serving at 125 pmh+ It's winning the match.

As for Venus hitting more cleanly than Serena...ummm...what...? Even at her best Venus makes almost as many errors as winners. Whereas with Serena, just occasionally, you do get the match where she has a +10 winner differential.

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Venus takes walkabouts too much and can still have days where her serving and unforced errors kill her. She has Venus beat in the movement department and net play. When all is clicking, there is no beating Venus Williams.

So are you saying she is the best.

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Myskina was better than all of them put together :p

Destiny
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:18 PM
meh i never got to see the best

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:18 PM
The thing is, at the end of the day, Venus is a rhythym player, she herself has said it. She is ultimately a fast court player. She is excellent on all surfaces but she will never play her best on a medium hardcourt or a clay court. It's great if you're unbeatable when you place your best, however if you can only do it on two courts in the world and once every 5 years I don't really see that it's meaningful.

I mean Venus played what you might call "near her best" against Safina last october and then lost to Jankovic in the next round :shrug: That makes me think what is Venus' best? Was she anywhere near it. I think Venus' best isn't hitting hard or serving at 125 pmh+ It's winning the match.

As for Venus hitting more cleanly than Serena...ummm...what...? Even at her best Venus makes almost as many errors as winners.


Im being honest venus hits much harder and cleaner than serena when at her best, and she has better looking groundies.

On Clay I think maybe 3-5 players can beat her. But Still IMO Venus beats herself, sometimes she can be a dementiresmo head case.

Dodoboy.
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:20 PM
There is no WAY Pova at her best is better than Venus!

sammy01
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Im being honest venus hits much harder and cleaner than serena when at her best, and she has better looking groundies.

On Clay I think maybe 3-5 players can beat her. But Still IMO Venus beats herself, sometimes she can be a dementiresmo head case.

:help: venus's groundstrokes even when on and going in never look good, they can be mightly effective but easy on the eye they aint. theres too much elbow in them.

CoolDude7
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Venus is the best when she is playing her best. She hardly ever does it.

Olórin
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Im being honest venus hits much harder and cleaner than serena when at her best, and she has better looking groundies.

On Clay I think maybe 3-5 players can beat her. But Still IMO Venus beats herself, sometimes she can be a dementiresmo head case.

So first you're saying she's the mentally toughest out there, now you're saying she's a headcase. It seems to me that you don't really know what you're talking about :shrug:

You seem to be a good fan of both Venus and Serena, so please: go back and watch their matches from the 2000-2002 period in their entirety, not little youtube snippets.

For example, in the 2002 Wimbledon Final, Serena won because she had a better serve, and was able to put pressure on Venus by hitting cross court to the forehand a lot. Serena was hitting so hard that Venus' forehand started to break down. Venus had just routed Justine in the previous round more comprehensively than the previous year. So she was in good form coming into the match. Here is the thing, Serena is the best tennis player since Steffi Graf and she simply doesn't let other players, even Venus, play their absolute best against her, because she's smothering them with her game.

AcesHigh
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Right now? Yes. But in terms of comparing Venus, Justine, Serena, and Maria at their peaks.. Serena is obviously the best.

Were asleep during 2002-2003?? Serena(2002-2003) at her best beats Venus at her best on every surface except maybe grass.

With Henin, I believe her best is better than Venus's best on clay and medium hardcourt. Sharapova doesnt really have a chance against Vee at her best on any surface.

But like people said, Venus is too streaky. Doesnt matter how good your best is if you can't produce it enough to win consistently. HOwever, I think Vee is getting better at being consistent.

2Black
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:33 PM
How many times do I have to remind you guys, we've seen Venus at her best...THE 2007 WIMBLEDON MATCH AGAINST MARIA SHARAPOVA

Venus clicked the entire match!!! 6-1, 6-3

Human Nature
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Im being honest venus hits much harder and cleaner than serena when at her best, and she has better looking groundies.

On Clay I think maybe 3-5 players can beat her. But Still IMO Venus beats herself, sometimes she can be a dementiresmo head case.



I disagree .

We have had the opportunity to see both venus and serena play together and against each other at their peak in 2001, 2002, 2003 and knew what happened .

I think serena at her best is the better player . Moreover , serena recently also hit the ball very hard as much as venus , but contrary to venus i think that serena has understood that there is much more in tennis game than hitting the ball hard and clear that 's why she has clearly change the way she plays by mixing "touch" and " power" in her game , what unfortunately i dont still see in venus game .

Dont get me wrong , i love venus she is my second favorite .

Paneru
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:38 PM
It seems like everyone think POva, Henin, and Ree. But Venus has an all around game, and when at her best she is the true number 1 no if ands or buts about it.

No, you are not the only one.

When Venus is on her game, I don't think anyone can touch her.
Richard said when Venus puts her mind to it, no one can beat her.

The problem is, Venus is rarely ever at her best "consistently".

Convoluted
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:42 PM
Venus has the most high-risk game.

Naturally if everything goes in she is very spectacular.

Therefore at her best she might be the best. But she sets the standard so high that her best is not really attainable...

bandabou
Feb 18th, 2009, 08:54 PM
Hmm..I don't know about that, I think convoluted might have put it best..too much high risk with those back dtl, big serving, etc.. Serena is more controlled and that's why I think she's consistently putting up better results than Vee.

Mina Vagante
Feb 18th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I dont get how poeple dont get it.

Serena at her best, is the best.

I think people forget 2002-2003 :rolleyes:

frenchie
Feb 18th, 2009, 09:25 PM
I dont get how poeple dont get it.

Serena at her best, is thebest.

I think people forget 2002-2003 :rolleyes:

I completely agree:worship:
Serena 2002-2003 played the best tennis a woman ever played for sure

Venus comes second IMO

Helen Lawson
Feb 18th, 2009, 09:32 PM
Sure, but that goes for most of the players. Lena D at her best is the best, we've seen her blow out people. The key, how often can they harness their "best" and can they figure out a way to win when not at their best?

ninanina19
Feb 18th, 2009, 09:34 PM
Serena - Sharapova - Henin

Venus.

Maybe on average but at their best imo Venus>Serena>>>Sharapova/Henin

spencercarlos
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:03 PM
:lol: yes you are the only one

:wavey:

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:07 PM
So first you're saying she's the mentally toughest out there, now you're saying she's a headcase. It seems to me that you don't really know what you're talking about :shrug:

You seem to be a good fan of both Venus and Serena, so please: go back and watch their matches from the 2000-2002 period in their entirety, not little youtube snippets.

For example, in the 2002 Wimbledon Final, Serena won because she had a better serve, and was able to put pressure on Venus by hitting cross court to the forehand a lot. Serena was hitting so hard that Venus' forehand started to break down. Venus had just routed Justine in the previous round more comprehensively than the previous year. So she was in good form coming into the match. Here is the thing, Serena is the best tennis player since Steffi Graf and she simply doesn't let other players, even Venus, play their absolute best against her, because she's smothering them with her game.

No. I said when at her best she is mentally tough probably the toughest. But when not she's a headcase, and she beast herself.

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:14 PM
I still think is the best player since steffi. IMO she sorta underrated.

The Dawntreader
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:16 PM
:lol: yes you are the only one

:wavey:

You're so naughty:lol:

vwfan
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Well, I think Venus at her best would bethe best. She has room in her game for growth and even without consistently playing her best, she is the second most accomplished player of her generation. She is clearly without contest the best athlete on tour and of her generation, but only once during her 35 match win streak did she hold court consistently.

Now, Serena fans point to 2002-2003 and that was an incredible run for Williams fans, particularly for Serena fans. Serena owned Venus in those slam finals, but with Venus and Serena it is all MENTAL. Who wants/needs it more and can best reign in the errors that inevitably happen when they play each other because they know that they must both play very high risk tennis against each other to win. There is a reason that over the course of their career their h2h is tied. At different points in their careers one has held the mental advantage.

Last year was the first time, they both seemed to play aggressive, unambivalent tennis against one another. What happened? They split the matchups 2-2 and 3/4 went to three sets.

I agree, Venus was at her best and in completely dominating form during her 4th round 2007 match against Maria at Wimbledon. Nothing Maria could do really. :help:

LDF
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:35 PM
I would say Serena is ever so slightly better when they're both at their best. There aren't too many factors to separate them but the second serve is a key one; even at her best, Venus' second serve has never been anywhere near as good as Serena's.

Dave.
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Serena > Venus > Hingis > Henin > Davenport

I think the late 90's saw (many, many times) what a Lindsay at her best could do to Martina, even when Martina was playing well :shrug:

I also think Linds and Vee are pretty evenly matched at their respective peaks.

Anabelcroft
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:46 PM
This is so true...for me when on best she is the best,I would give her slight edge over Serena...can hit even harder!

Dodoboy.
Feb 18th, 2009, 10:54 PM
I think the late 90's saw (many, many times) what a Lindsay at her best could do to Martina, even when Martina was playing well :shrug:

I also think Linds and Vee are pretty evenly matched at their respective peaks.

Na, when we think about peaks we normally focus on aggressive, aggressive, aggressive. But peak Venus could cover every inch of the court. That gives her the advantage here.

Dave.
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Na, when we think about peaks we normally focus on aggressive, aggressive, aggressive. But peak Venus could cover every inch of the court. That gives her the advantage here.

I dunno, I was going more by the H2H which proves there was nothing between them. What Lindsay gives away to Venus in movement, she makes up for in aggression, accuracy and lasoo forehands :cool:

mdterp01
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:01 PM
So are you saying she is the best.

Sorry I messed up my original comment. I meant to say that Venus has SERENA beat in the movement department. When at her best, the only player that can beat Venus is Serena in my opinion. Why? Because Serena is the only player who is that used to playing Venus because of their practice time together.

mdterp01
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:08 PM
:lol: yes you are the only one

:wavey:

Awww....I guess its hard when your fave will NEVER be a part of any "best" conversation. :wavey:

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:24 PM
2002 Venus was better than 2002 serena dont you think?

OZTENNIS
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:28 PM
Venus was at her best when she lost to Serena at the '08 US Open.
Venus was at her best when she lost to Justine at the '07 US Open.

Serena > Justine > Venus > Hingis

mdterp01
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:28 PM
2002 Venus was better than 2002 serena dont you think?

2002 Venus lost in all those damn slam finals to 2002 Serena though. In the end, mental toughness is the key. For instance, at the Australian Open this year. Serena would've never lost a third set up 5-2 against no damn Carla Suarez Navarro. Venus has never had the mental toughness that Serena has, and that has been a huge factor in Serena's success. That killer instinct that Venus just doesn't seem to have. Serena throws her racket and cusses and whatnot, and she gets criticized for it, but thats what Serena needs to do sometimes to amp herself up. Maybe Venus needs to show a little emotion or something when she's in those situations instead of just making the faces and shaking her head. I know that Venus is not Serena and vice versa but sometimes I would just like to see a little more passion from Venus. A "come on" or fist pump every now and then? Somethin.

SV_Fan
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Im sorry I meant 2000 Vee was better than 2003 Ree IMHO.

CoolDude7
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:42 PM
Venus is obviouly great player at her best. She doesn;t show it often though.

Mina Vagante
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:47 PM
I completely agree:worship:
Serena 2002-2003 played the best tennis a woman ever played for sure

Venus comes second IMO

We're the only sane ones on the board :lol:

Serena in 2002-2003 was seriously scary. I mean it was like everytime she was going to hit the ball you were scared how good it would be.

She was so quick, so much power !

youizahoe
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:48 PM
I do think venus is the 2nd best when she is at her peak. But lets face it, peak rena can demolish peak venus or peak anyone. Luckily Serena and Venus are human and have their losses too. Otherwise nobody else would ever win a tournament.

Optima
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:51 PM
But lets face it, peak rena can demolish peak venus or peak anyone.

Pierce? I think Mary would stand a great chance.

Mina Vagante
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:54 PM
Pierce? I think Mary would stand a great chance.

She wouldn't be to handle Serena's serve.

Plus peak Serena was so fast, running down many of Pierce's shots and hitting them for winners :worship:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:57 PM
Peak Venus is an amazing sight to behold. She looks amazing in full flight. However, I'd still give Serena the edge when both are playing at their bests.

Mina Vagante
Feb 18th, 2009, 11:59 PM
Peak Venus is an amazing sight to behold. She looks amazing in full flight. However, I'd still give Serena the edge when both are playing at their bests.

How I see it too ;)

youizahoe
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:05 AM
Pierce? I think Mary would stand a great chance.

Pierce does have power, but she is always in trouble when serena is hitting corner to corner hard. And that's what peak-rena does, hard and accurate angles, if Pierce was a better runner, she would have a bigger chance.

SV_Fan
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:08 AM
Peak venus 2000-2001 beat serena also, and Venus was always more athletic and graceful looking than serena.

youizahoe
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:08 AM
Peak venus 2000-2001 beat serena also, and Venus was always more athletic and graceful looking than serena.

Perhaps. But Peak rena d. Peak venus more times.

Andrew Laeddis
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:09 AM
I think the late 90's saw (many, many times) what a Lindsay at her best could do to Martina, even when Martina was playing well :shrug:

I also think Linds and Vee are pretty evenly matched at their respective peaks.

NO

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:10 AM
yes you are the only one...stats show 5 slam finals to 0 between peak serena and peak venus :wavey:

Andrew Laeddis
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:12 AM
Venus was at her best when she lost to Serena at the '08 US Open.
Venus was at her best when she lost to Justine at the '07 US Open.

Serena > Justine > Venus > Hingis

Hell No

tennisbum79
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:12 AM
Yes, it is extremely rare these days to see Venus at her best, day and day out.

She is having a scisor career. It is hard for me to say it, but I just did.

Dave.
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:13 AM
Pierce does have power, but she is always in trouble when serena is hitting corner to corner hard. And that's what peak-rena does, hard and accurate angles, if Pierce was a better runner, she would have a bigger chance.

That's just it though, Serena is not hitting corners when Pierce is bossing the point. :shrug: It's all about the first strike. Peak Pierce is definetely a scary proposition for anyone, and certainly wouldn't be demolished by anyone.

Anyway, I agree that Serena at her peak is better than everyone else. But I don't believe that women's tennis is that weak that nobody else playing their best wouldn't at least be able to make it competitive. Even in her peak years, Serena did lose.

starin
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:14 AM
No. I think that mantle belongs to Serena

tennisbum79
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by OZTENNIS http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images2007/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=15037838#post15037838)
Venus was at her best when she lost to Serena at the '08 US Open.
Venus was at her best when she lost to Justine at the '07 US Open.

Serena > Justine > Venus > Hingis


Hell No

I believe Venus is 7-1 or 7-2 against Justine

Dave.
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:15 AM
NO

Thank you for your insightful post. I'm glad you came up with so many reasons to disagree with me so that it doesn't seem I was right.

CoolDude7
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Queen Vee, best ever at her peak! =)

youizahoe
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:24 AM
That's just it though, Serena is not hitting corners when Pierce is bossing the point. :shrug: It's all about the first strike. Peak Pierce is definetely a scary proposition for anyone, and certainly wouldn't be demolished by anyone.

Anyway, I agree that Serena at her peak is better than everyone else. But I don't believe that women's tennis is that weak that nobody else playing their best wouldn't at least be able to make it competitive. Even in her peak years, Serena did lose.

Pierce only had a short period, where she really was that clean. And I also think that Serena is behind Davenport when it comes to the first strike. And Kim pretty much demolished Pierce at the USOPEN, although she wasn't really that good, but still good enough.

True, but she won almost all big tournaments.

Andrew Laeddis
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:28 AM
Thank you for your insightful post. I'm glad you came up with so many reasons to disagree with me so that it doesn't seem I was right.

You're welcome. :wavey:

SV_Fan
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:41 AM
Only Peak Seles and Peak Serena could beat peak Venus.

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:47 AM
well, when Venus was at her peak during 2000 and 2001, Serena wasn't even getting to slam finals so pretty hard for Venus to beat her there. The one time they did meet, Venus won in straights.;)

I agree with others though that five straight Grand Slam final losses against your greatest rival is more than lopsided, it is just plain :help:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:51 AM
well, when Venus was at her peak during 2000 and 2001, Serena wasn't even getting to slam finals so pretty hard for Venus to beat her there. The one time they did meet, Venus won in straights.;)

I agree with others though that five straight Grand Slam final losses against your greatest rival is more than lopsided, it is just plain :help:

so venus wasnt at her peak during 02-03....really??

spencercarlos
Feb 19th, 2009, 12:55 AM
so venus wasnt at her peak during 02-03....really??
Venus wins, she is peaking she loses she is not.
See circa 2002/2003 or her match against Henin at Usopen 2007.

:wavey:

PizzaMan
Feb 19th, 2009, 01:30 AM
I think Venus at her best is better than anyone else at their best. But she doesn't play at her best as often as others do.

I also think that Venus at her average isn't as good as Serena at her average.

Finally, Venus plays at her below-average more than others in the top 10 do, which is what keeps her ranked in the 5-10 range and not higher.

SV_Fan
Feb 19th, 2009, 01:43 AM
^^^^^^^^^^
Right on

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 01:59 AM
Venus wins, she is peaking she loses she is not.
See circa 2002/2003 or her match against Henin at Usopen 2007.

:wavey:well, duh. isn't that what playing at your peak is: imposing your game on others and generally evidenced by victory. how do we know that Serena was playing at her peak 2002/3? she was winning. she wasn't playing always brilliant tennis during the Serena slam either, but she was winning. She actually only played lights out brilliant tennis from Wimbledon 2002 through U.S. Open 2002. She nearly lost to Loit and Kim at Aus Open 2003. Not peak, but good enough to win.

anyway, Venus played the peak tennis of her career during her 35 match win streak in 2000--a feat not duplicated by anyone else in her generation;

and. . .she's actually playing pretty good tennis now (in some ways better than then) BUT she isn't doing so consistently in a tournament or even in a match sometimes. that is largely about confidence, but also because so many others have been able to incorporate dimensions of the Williams game into their repertoire.

finally, I believe I said that making the case for Venus being the best when playing her best is pretty difficult when you can't even take a set off of your greatest rival in three slam finals and lost five in a row. Venus has slapped Serena around enough to have a respectable h2h, but she lost on most of the big occasions.

Mina Vagante
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:01 AM
I think Venus at her best is better than anyone else at their best. But she doesn't play at her best as often as others do.

I also think that Venus at her average isn't as good as Serena at her average.

Finally, Venus plays at her below-average more than others in the top 10 do, which is what keeps her ranked in the 5-10 range and not higher.

Seriously?

Serena at her best, Is the best.

Thing is, its more of a fact than opinio.

supergrunt
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:13 AM
lol citing a straight set loss is not an example of someone playing at her best :lol:

supergrunt
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:14 AM
unless you're biased and you're trying to piss somebody off

pollison
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:16 AM
AT their peak i think serena has the slight edge.

but its not that simple...even when both play at their peak either of the sisters can win the match but more often than not it will be serena IMO.

Adaora
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:19 AM
Lol @ those saying Sharapova is better than Venus at her best. Name one thing Sharapova does better than Venus please?

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:26 AM
Lol @ those saying Sharapova is better than Venus at her best. Name one thing Sharapova does better than Venus please?
unfortunately, play consistently well.:sad:

that said, Venus is a better player than Maria and more accomplished.

rjd1111
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:37 AM
It seems like everyone think POva, Henin, and Ree. But Venus has an all around game, and when at her best she is the true number 1 no if ands or buts about it.

Many years ago Richard said:

Serena will be the better player, But when Venus wants it

nobody can beat her.

Lucas_Arg
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:38 AM
Henin at her peak is the best.

rjd1111
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:44 AM
That's not exactly what Navratilova said, but anyway, she said Serena and Sharapova are the best at their real level. I prefer listening to a champion like her rather you;)

Venus on a Different Level, Says Navratilova
By Alastair Himmer


TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world No. 1 Martina Navratilova says she would have been a match for any of today's top women, with the possible exception of Wimbledon and U.S. Open champion Venus Williams.


``I think at my best I would stack up pretty well against anybody at their best. But Venus is so big and she isn't at her best yet,'' Navratilova, who is currently enjoying a comeback as a doubles player, said Sunday.


However, the 44-year-old Navratilova, who competed at this week's Toyota Princess Cup in Tokyo with Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, complained that the modern game is too one-dimensional with the emphasis on big serving and power from the back of the court.


``Today's players are better hitters, but the variety has gone down. Everyone stays on the baseline. It would be weird for me to do that, even on clay,'' she told Reuters.


The Prague-born American, who won 167 singles titles -- more than any man or woman in the history of tennis -- between 1975 and 1994, claimed that the result would have been hard to call if she had ever faced Williams at the peak of her powers in the 1980s.


``My lefty serve would have given her fits and my variety would have been pretty good against her. But Venus has the wingspan of a condor. It's unbelievable,'' said Navratilova, who won 18 grand slam singles titles on the back of an aggressive serve-and-volley game.

Inger67
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:45 AM
Many years ago Richard said:

Serena will be the better player, But when Venus wants it

nobody can beat her.

I love how he is so right. He predicted Serena's 07 Oz and Venus' 07 Wimby too :) But I do wish Venus had Serena's mentality.

Because honestly with Venus' height, length, speed, and reach, there should be nobody better than her. But sadly that's why they play the game. :bounce:

spencercarlos
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:47 AM
Venus on a Different Level, Says Navratilova
By Alastair Himmer


TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world No. 1 Martina Navratilova says she would have been a match for any of today's top women, with the possible exception of Wimbledon and U.S. Open champion Venus Williams.


``I think at my best I would stack up pretty well against anybody at their best. But Venus is so big and she isn't at her best yet,'' Navratilova, who is currently enjoying a comeback as a doubles player, said Sunday.


However, the 44-year-old Navratilova, who competed at this week's Toyota Princess Cup in Tokyo with Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, complained that the modern game is too one-dimensional with the emphasis on big serving and power from the back of the court.


``Today's players are better hitters, but the variety has gone down. Everyone stays on the baseline. It would be weird for me to do that, even on clay,'' she told Reuters.


The Prague-born American, who won 167 singles titles -- more than any man or woman in the history of tennis -- between 1975 and 1994, claimed that the result would have been hard to call if she had ever faced Williams at the peak of her powers in the 1980s.


``My lefty serve would have given her fits and my variety would have been pretty good against her. But Venus has the wingspan of a condor. It's unbelievable,'' said Navratilova, who won 18 grand slam singles titles on the back of an aggressive serve-and-volley game.
This is so 2000/2001. Even Billie Jean King said in 1998 that Hingis was the best ever :lol:

Inger67
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:47 AM
^^ Haha I like how that was posted right before mine :)

Inger67
Feb 19th, 2009, 02:48 AM
Henin at her peak is the best.

No.

Lucas_Arg
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:01 AM
No.

Yes in my opinion.

kwilliams
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:25 AM
I think part of the doubt is that we don't see her best outside of Wimbledon that often anymore. There were some signs in Doha but she wasn't at her very best. Really we haven't seen her very best in years, so it's natural that some people would forget how unbeatable she was (longest win streak of the decade back in 2000). It says a lot though that she can still achieve so much when she's only playing her near-best or great tennis.

pollison
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:14 AM
i agree with kwilliams...venus just doesnt turn it on CONSISTENTLY outside of wimby.
she shows of greatness like at doha last year and at dubai but not match in match out all year long.

Dini.
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Venus is the best. Full stop.

:p

Mashafaaaaan
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:33 AM
I agree, Venus was at her best and in completely dominating form during her 4th round 2007 match against Maria at Wimbledon. Nothing Maria could do really. :help:

Because you think Maria never did a great match like Venus did, Wimbly 2004, US Open 2006, YEC 2007, OZ 2008, oh please, Venus can only play well on grass, I've never seen Venus playing an AMAZING tennis outside of WImbledon, Maria, Serena and Henin are WAY more consistent, and their tennis do suit more surfaces; that's why Navratilova think Sharapova and Serena are the best at their best.
Venus need to prove she can play an amazing tennis outside of Wimbledon, but with years, I'm sorry, but there is NADA.

Mashafaaaaan
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:34 AM
Venus on a Different Level, Says Navratilova
By Alastair Himmer


TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world No. 1 Martina Navratilova says she would have been a match for any of today's top women, with the possible exception of Wimbledon and U.S. Open champion Venus Williams.


``I think at my best I would stack up pretty well against anybody at their best. But Venus is so big and she isn't at her best yet,'' Navratilova, who is currently enjoying a comeback as a doubles player, said Sunday.


However, the 44-year-old Navratilova, who competed at this week's Toyota Princess Cup in Tokyo with Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, complained that the modern game is too one-dimensional with the emphasis on big serving and power from the back of the court.


``Today's players are better hitters, but the variety has gone down. Everyone stays on the baseline. It would be weird for me to do that, even on clay,'' she told Reuters.


The Prague-born American, who won 167 singles titles -- more than any man or woman in the history of tennis -- between 1975 and 1994, claimed that the result would have been hard to call if she had ever faced Williams at the peak of her powers in the 1980s.


``My lefty serve would have given her fits and my variety would have been pretty good against her. But Venus has the wingspan of a condor. It's unbelievable,'' said Navratilova, who won 18 grand slam singles titles on the back of an aggressive serve-and-volley game.

Back in 2000 and 2001:lol:now things changed.

Human Nature
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:54 AM
Peak venus 2000-2001 beat serena also, and Venus was always more athletic and graceful looking than serena.


The only thing i agree with you is the Gratefullness .

But sportively speaking there is no doubt that peak serena demolishes peak venus . I dont know why you speak about peak venus only in 2000 and 2001 , she was still at her peak in 2002 and 2003 , and constantly lost to peak serena ...no doubt serena is scary even for venus at her best .

Ellen Dawson
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:04 AM
Am I the only one that feels Vee is the best when at her best?

I'm sure you're not but I don't agree. I think at her best, Serena is the better all-around player. To me, she's just tougher mentally than Big Sis. (I am biased though :o )

Dementinator
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:05 AM
I think so, she would be the player I fear the most and has tons of natural talent and wonderful movement, on form I do think she is the absolute best, she doesnt rely just on bludgeoning her oppos, she used the whole court to her advantage, but perhaps a little to prone to stupid errors at times.

Human Nature
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:09 AM
Serena is the best for me .

bandabou
Feb 19th, 2009, 08:17 AM
2002 Venus lost in all those damn slam finals to 2002 Serena though. In the end, mental toughness is the key. For instance, at the Australian Open this year. Serena would've never lost a third set up 5-2 against no damn Carla Suarez Navarro. Venus has never had the mental toughness that Serena has, and that has been a huge factor in Serena's success. That killer instinct that Venus just doesn't seem to have. Serena throws her racket and cusses and whatnot, and she gets criticized for it, but thats what Serena needs to do sometimes to amp herself up. Maybe Venus needs to show a little emotion or something when she's in those situations instead of just making the faces and shaking her head. I know that Venus is not Serena and vice versa but sometimes I would just like to see a little more passion from Venus. A "come on" or fist pump every now and then? Somethin.

:lol: I guess being gracious LOSER can get you only so far, huh?

Renalicious
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:17 AM
At their peaks...

Serena
Venus
Maria
Marion
Justine. ;)

new-york
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:20 AM
it's about people using their weapons at full flow.
people are bringing Venus' consistency into the discussion.
if there's one player who's often far from her best, it's Venus.
but here it's about what if all her game clicked.

that would count if the question was who IS actually better days in days out, and that's obviosuly what counts, and Serena wins that of course.

I still think Serena's mental toughness would get her the win, more often if she was playing Venus, both being at their very best.

Maria would probably tear a lot of people apart but Venus at her best love these hard shots and moves better.

I believe than Venus is a worst matchup at her best for Justine than Serena.
Well, so Serena wins, then Venus, then Justine probably.

i've never seen someone playing a more explosive tennis than the sisters, in their generation.

at their very best, you don't beat the bombs too often. :cool:

SV_Fan
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:34 AM
if you dont count mental toughness vee is possibly the best because of er raw power, her sheer force. In her prime venus was rafa nadal/ james blake fast, she still is now, but wht im saying is that she had enough athleticism for 2 people.

serenus_2k8
Feb 19th, 2009, 09:52 AM
I think her game is looking amazing at the moment and I would love her to win Dubai but I still think Serena is better at her best, but when Venus is attacking the net and using her head she is absolutely amazing to watch :drool:

harloo
Feb 19th, 2009, 01:11 PM
if you dont count mental toughness vee is possibly the best because of er raw power, her sheer force. In her prime venus was rafa nadal/ james blake fast, she still is now, but wht im saying is that she had enough athleticism for 2 people.

And what does this prove? Tennis is 80% mental and 20% talent. Whomever holds their nerve during tense moments usually comes out on top in a match. You can't discount the most important aspect of the game to bolster a players ability. Their are many players that can hit the ball hard on tour but the difference is their mental games are inferior to the top players.
And in this generation you need something other than hitting the ball hard because to me nearly every player is doing the same thing. I've seen more balls pass Venus and Serena on court these days than before. The girls now can hit hard off of both sides and actually put up a challenge.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 19th, 2009, 03:53 PM
Im sorry I meant 2000 Vee was better than 2003 Ree IMHO.

:unsure:

Serena played 3 majors in 2003, won 2 and got to another semi.

Venus played 3 majors in 2000, won 2 and got to another quarter.

Serena played 7 tournaments, winning 4 (57%), reaching another final (71% final or better), and 2 other semifinals (100% semifinals or better). 2003 W/L was 38-3 (92.7%)
Venus played 10 tournaments, winning 6 (60%), reaching another final (70% final or better), and 2 other quarterfinals (90% quarterfinals or better. 2000 W/L was 41-4 (91.1%)


Venus has a great 2000, but even with playing less events, Serena's 2003 was better...and you can even argue that Venus 2000 > Venus 2001, while Serena 2002>> Serena 2003.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:01 PM
Many years ago Richard said:
"Serena will be the better player, But when Venus wants it nobody can beat her."

He also said that they would both retire by 25 :shrug:

Selah
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:05 PM
No, Serena at her best is better than Venus at her best.

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Because you think Maria never did a great match like Venus did, Wimbly 2004, US Open 2006, YEC 2007, OZ 2008, oh please, Venus can only play well on grass, I've never seen Venus playing an AMAZING tennis outside of WImbledon, Maria, Serena and Henin are WAY more consistent, and their tennis do suit more surfaces; that's why Navratilova think Sharapova and Serena are the best at their best.
Venus need to prove she can play an amazing tennis outside of Wimbledon, but with years, I'm sorry, but there is NADA.just because she OWNS Maria's ass on grass, don't go discounting it. afterall, before Venus tapped that behind everyone was declaring Maria as the second coming on grass. :lol:

Besides, Maria ain't even in this conversation.:rolleyes:

new-york
Feb 19th, 2009, 04:24 PM
Besides, Maria ain't even in this conversation.:rolleyes:

UNTIL someone appears.

vwfan
Feb 19th, 2009, 07:07 PM
:unsure:

Serena played 3 majors in 2003, won 2 and got to another semi.

Venus played 3 majors in 2000, won 2 and got to another quarter.

Serena played 7 tournaments, winning 4 (57%), reaching another final (71% final or better), and 2 other semifinals (100% semifinals or better). 2003 W/L was 38-3 (92.7%)
Venus played 10 tournaments, winning 6 (60%), reaching another final (70% final or better), and 2 other quarterfinals (90% quarterfinals or better. 2000 W/L was 41-4 (91.1%)


Venus has a great 2000, but even with playing less events, Serena's 2003 was better...and you can even argue that Venus 2000 > Venus 2001, while Serena 2002>> Serena 2003.Venus had three majors plus Olympic Gold in singles and doubles and a 35 match win streak. ;)

BTW, 6 titles is > 4; no one looks at how many tournaments were played when they assess a players tournament wins for the year.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:33 AM
Venus had three majors plus Olympic Gold in singles and doubles and a 35 match win streak. ;)

BTW, 6 titles is > 4; no one looks at how many tournaments were played when they assess a players tournament wins for the year.

So a player that wins 4 out of 18 tournaments had a better year than a player who won 3 out of 3?

Not to mention the fact that Serena reached the semis or better in all 7 events she played....Venus didn't quite do so well...

Ellen Dawson
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:50 AM
it's about people using their weapons at full flow.
people are bringing Venus' consistency into the discussion.
if there's one player who's often far from her best, it's Venus.
but here it's about what if all her game clicked.

that would count if the question was who IS actually better days in days out, and that's obviosuly what counts, and Serena wins that of course.

I still think Serena's mental toughness would get her the win, more often if she was playing Venus, both being at their very best.

Maria would probably tear a lot of people apart but Venus at her best love these hard shots and moves better.

I believe than Venus is a worst matchup at her best for Justine than Serena.
Well, so Serena wins, then Venus, then Justine probably.

i've never seen someone playing a more explosive tennis than the sisters, in their generation.

at their very best, you don't beat the bombs too often. :cool:


True, true, TRUE!!! When I compare bad losses for a GREAT player, Venus is at the top of that list.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 20th, 2009, 12:50 PM
So a player that wins 4 out of 18 tournaments had a better year than a player who won 3 out of 3?

Not to mention the fact that Serena reached the semis or better in all 7 events she played....Venus didn't quite do so well...

it's vwfan...that thinks venus wasn't at her peak 02-03 because she couldn't beat serena then, but thinks the peak is 00-01 when she did manage to beat serena...you're arguing with a rock...

Dave.
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:03 PM
So a player that wins 4 out of 18 tournaments had a better year than a player who won 3 out of 3?

Not to mention the fact that Serena reached the semis or better in all 7 events she played....Venus didn't quite do so well...

Yes. At the end of the day, 4 titles > 3 titles :shrug:


The comparison between Venus' 2000 and Serena's 2003 is interesting. They both missed large chunks of those years including a slam. They both won 2 Slams. Serena made another semi > Venus' other quarter. I still give the edge to Venus with more titles incl OG with a 35 match win streak.

friendsita
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:04 PM
maybe, this thing is between the sisters, one of them is defff the est

vwfan
Feb 20th, 2009, 01:14 PM
So a player that wins 4 out of 18 tournaments had a better year than a player who won 3 out of 3?

Not to mention the fact that Serena reached the semis or better in all 7 events she played....Venus didn't quite do so well...which years are you comparing now??!!!

I was using your stat compliation.

You said Serena's 2003 > Venus' 2000. Did either play 18 tournaments in either year?

Anyway, YOU started the conversation comparing periods of dominance between Serena and Venus. The thread topic was about whether Vee is the best when at her best. You act as though the only relevant period for consideration is when Serena was at her peak: 2002-3, but want to ignore conveniently a peak period for Venus 2000-1.

I don't have to argue the point about whether Serena dominated Venus during 2002-3. Serena's slam count makes that point quite well. ;)

But does anyone consider someone's peak years being when they weren't dominating??!!! That's just:help:

Let's take an example that might be less emotional for you. Roger and Nadal.
Is Roger at his peak now? No you'd probably say, but in 2008 he made 3/4 Grand Slam finals in 2008and the first slam of 2009. Sound familiar??!!!

He lost two of them on a surfaces he once completely dominated on and to someone he once dominated on those same surfaces. Nadal is at his peak and Roger is coming down from his peak but still good enough to post phenomenal results.

If you finally get it, perhaps you can explain it to ANARENA.