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View Full Version : I cannot lie to myself any longer.. I have a confession to make


supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:32 PM
Even as a Williams sisters fan, I find that the tour right now is boring. I've tried to trick myself into thinking otherwise. With players like Maria, Justine, Capriati, and Kim, you got the feeling that there was some kind of threat towards one of the Williams sisters winning the title, and the danger of having several real contenders made the tournament more exciting. Now it seems like the Williams sisters are women's tennis. :sad:

Mina Vagante
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:34 PM
:lol: True ?

Dave.
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:35 PM
Serena has already been beaten (thrashed actually) once this year. Don't worry, they are not the be all of women's tennis.

And even if they were (like in 2002) that would not be a bad thing. They are both great players, and it would only motivate others to raise their level.

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:36 PM
I think we both know Dementieva isn't beating Serena in a slam. :rolleyes:

Marionated
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:37 PM
There are a few players that are capable of stopping the sisters actually.
It's not a foregone conclusion that either is going to win.
They both lost to a Serbian sister last year.

Dave.
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:39 PM
I think we both know Dementieva isn't beating Serena in a slam. :rolleyes:

So? She beat her in the Olympics and a Premier SemiFinal. Huge matches.

If you only follow the slams (which aren't even WTA events) then you shouldn't be that sad about lack of competiton because it's only 8 weeks of the year you have to endure.

Optima
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:39 PM
I think we both know Dementieva isn't beating Serena in a slam. :rolleyes:

I think we both know that there are no such things as psychics.

Jesus people, stop predicting things, pleaaaaase.

MalJackson
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:41 PM
womens tennis is the best

you have vaidisova currently going alllllllllllll crazzzzzzzzzyyyy on us

Watching chakvadtze on court is like watching a soap opera, tears/tantrums, so fun to watch her going nuts.

Vera zvonereva isnt going mad anymore

Wozniaki is a breath of fresh air, wonderkid who will dominate in two years time.

Then we have the new relaxed/chilled kuzzie just playing free powerflow tennis, she was better when she was more defensive but what the heck.

then you have dementieva, you have to admire her, she had the most pathetic serve in the history of the sport and now LOOK AT IT.

What an inspiration this woman is, i love you lenaaaaaaaaaaaa d!

Ivanovic is playing tennis whilst carrying verdascos sperm, you have to love that...

we love you annaaa!

then you have the stroppy know it all /loud, powerful boring william sisters who i have to admit are amazing.

then we have cibulkovas beauty

dont forget safina screeches...oooooohhh ahahhhhhh argghhhhhhhh hennnnnshfffff

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:48 PM
Well obviously Dementieva could beat Serena in a GS, but I give that about a 20% chance.

harloo
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:48 PM
I think you need to be concerned about Dementieva actually winning the AO and becoming #1 with that terrible serve.:lol: That will signal the end of women's tennis for good.:tape:

And to be honest, the problem isn't the sisters because they've always drew interest in the sport. What you have now is a system that rewards players who attend the Bolleteri Academy and learn one-dimensional tennis. These players have no personality, can only play one way and have no plan B when things aren't working. It makes most of the matches boring and predictable.

Mashafaaaaan
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:49 PM
Well obviously Dementieva could beat Serena in a GS, but I give that about a 20% chance.

You gave her about 20% chance to beat Serena during Olympics, and we saw the result.

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I didn't make any predictions for that match.

Lunaris
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:50 PM
How come you are not the official retard and troll anymore? :sobbing: It was my favourite custom title on the board. :(

Mashafaaaaan
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:52 PM
I didn't make any predictions for that match.

Of course.

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:53 PM
well lets see how far dementieva gets

LeonHart
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:54 PM
womens tennis is the best

you have vaidisova currently going alllllllllllll crazzzzzzzzzyyyy on us

Watching chakvadtze on court is like watching a soap opera, tears/tantrums, so fun to watch her going nuts.

Vera zvonereva isnt going mad anymore

Wozniaki is a breath of fresh air, wonderkid who will dominate in two years time.

Then we have the new relaxed/chilled kuzzie just playing free powerflow tennis, she was better when she was more defensive but what the heck.

then you have dementieva, you have to admire her, she had the most pathetic serve in the history of the sport and now LOOK AT IT.

What an inspiration this woman is, i love you lenaaaaaaaaaaaa d!

Ivanovic is playing tennis whilst carrying verdascos sperm, you have to love that...

we love you annaaa!

then you have the stroppy know it all /loud, powerful boring william sisters who i have to admit are amazing.

then we have cibulkovas beauty

dont forget safina screeches...oooooohhh ahahhhhhh argghhhhhhhh hennnnnshfffff

Umm...have you watched Vera's first round match at all? :lol:

kwilliams
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:54 PM
womens tennis is the best

you have vaidisova currently going alllllllllllll crazzzzzzzzzyyyy on us

Watching chakvadtze on court is like watching a soap opera, tears/tantrums, so fun to watch her going nuts.

Vera zvonereva isnt going mad anymore

Wozniaki is a breath of fresh air, wonderkid who will dominate in two years time.

Then we have the new relaxed/chilled kuzzie just playing free powerflow tennis, she was better when she was more defensive but what the heck.

then you have dementieva, you have to admire her, she had the most pathetic serve in the history of the sport and now LOOK AT IT.

What an inspiration this woman is, i love you lenaaaaaaaaaaaa d!

Ivanovic is playing tennis whilst carrying verdascos sperm, you have to love that...

we love you annaaa!

then you have the stroppy know it all /loud, powerful boring william sisters who i have to admit are amazing.

then we have cibulkovas beauty

dont forget safina screeches...oooooohhh ahahhhhhh argghhhhhhhh hennnnnshfffff

Ewww!

The WS aren't boring!

Viktymise
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:56 PM
I think you need to be concerned about Dementieva actually winning the AO and becoming #1 with that terrible serve.:lol: That will signal the end of women's tennis for good.:tape:

Like an overweight and out-of-shape Serena Williams winning in '07, right? :o

Jorn
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:57 PM
Caro has 3 MPs and ED beat SW in Sydney so we'll see in AO ;)

But you're right about Venus nobody will beat her...

Mashafaaaaan
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:57 PM
well lets see how far dementieva gets

I know Dementieva will never win a Slam(even if the Tour is in a BIG slump right na) but she can beat a great player during a Major, she already did, she can do it again.

Tennisation
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:58 PM
You're gonna be eating your words when Justine comes back from retirement to give Serena some more of them "lucky shots"

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:59 PM
I'm not saying Dementeiva won't ever win a GS.. but do any of the girls left have the champion mentality or quite frankly the skills to beat a Williams sister in a GRAND SLAM!?!? IF they are PLAYING WELL?!?! And then win the WHOLE THING??!

CR3WLFC
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:59 PM
It is boring for 80% of the matches.

JAMESYBABY!
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:01 PM
wwait for laura robson :armed:

Convoluted
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:02 PM
I feel your pain. Like 5 years ago we had all the top players we have now + Henin, Clijsters, Lindsay, Myskina, Pierce...

Theyve been replaced by an injured Pova, a slumping Ivanovic, and maybe our last hope Jankovic, and hopefully in the near future Wozniacki...

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:03 PM
It's not the Williams sisters. It's the one-dimensional tennis players. Like her or hate her, Justine brought a lot of variety to the game that is missing today.

Venus and Serena have less variety and are eqaully as exciting... its the feild's weakness that is boring :o

harloo
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Like an overweight and out-of-shape Serena Williams winning in '07, right? :o

No, a multiple grand slam winner who actually bested the competition. Don't get upset with me because Elena has no serve, take that up with her.:lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:05 PM
There are a few players that are capable of stopping the sisters actually.
It's not a foregone conclusion that either is going to win.
They both lost to a Serbian sister last year.

and we all know about that little Dementieva-Serena situation :scared: :help:

Mashafaaaaan
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:06 PM
I'm not saying Dementeiva won't ever win a GS.. but do any of the girls left have the champion mentality or quite frankly the skills to beat a Williams sister in a GRAND SLAM!?!? IF they are PLAYING WELL?!?! And then win the WHOLE THING??!

Of course, if WS plays well, Dementieva has no chance, but WS don't play well all the time, do you remember Serena's QF against Jankovic last year, please, even Dementieva would have win this day:rolleyes:

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:08 PM
they are playing well

sammy01
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Venus and Serena have less variety and are eqaully as exciting... its the feild's weakness that is boring :o

for you, i tend to find watching many other players over venus and serena is more exciting for me.

Viktymise
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:11 PM
No, a multiple grand slam winner who actually bested the competition. Don't get upset with me because Elena has no serve, take that up with her.:lol:

God, some people of this forum live in their own world. If Dementieva wins a slam, the game is finished because she apparantly has no serve. If Serena wins a slam playing part-time and coming into the event looking completely out-of-shape, it's called "besting the competition" and shows how amazingly deep the competition is. :tape:

And please, if Dementieva has no serve, then how come this multiple slam winner has lost to her 3 times straight? Ever since she started owning S. Williams, Dementieva's hate stock on TF has soared.

Dini.
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I feel I have to let it out too. I miss Justine. Her game had so much variety and the hard work she put in just to compete and toput those big serves in when clearly she was disadvantaged being short, was shown through out her matches, and that champion's mentality is missed. I was never a Justine fan, but really admired her for all that she achieved, albeit a bit dodgy at times with her actions.

Its just that most of these matches are becoming real error fests. It is very rare nowadays where you see a clean game with a lot less UE's to winners. Also, even more rare is to see at least one player hold serve through out the entire match, there are nearly always breaks and emphasis on improving serve doesn't seem to bother many players because of this new baseline generation, just put the serve in and focus on the ground stroke. With the exception of Serena and Vee, I can't see anyone of the top 10 having a dominant run in the Slams and being consistent. True, Dementieva is playing well, but at the same time I sometimes just sit and wonder what heights this girl could go to if she had the Ree-Vee serve.

Having said all this, I am being patient, and hoping for someone to dominate the tour for a while, to let at least the top girls raise their game so they know what they have to match up to. Why can't WTA have the big 4?

Mashafaaaaan
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:12 PM
they are playing well

they can play horrible tennis in one match, you know what I'm talking about, you the WS fan.

Slutiana
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I'm not saying Dementeiva won't ever win a GS.. but do any of the girls left have the champion mentality or quite frankly the skills to beat a Williams sister in a GRAND SLAM!?!? IF they are PLAYING WELL?!?! And then win the WHOLE THING??!
Tatiana Golovin.

harloo
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I'm not saying Dementeiva won't ever win a GS.. but do any of the girls left have the champion mentality or quite frankly the skills to beat a Williams sister in a GRAND SLAM!?!? IF they are PLAYING WELL?!?! And then win the WHOLE THING??!

You're acting like women's tennis hasn't been like this for years. Their has always been 2 to 3 clear favorites in nearly every slam. Venus and Serena only won 2 of the four slams last year, Venus won 3 titles and Serena won about 4 or 5. They aren't dominating the tour anymore so why are you acting like the AO is a sure win? :confused:

Il Primo!
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:15 PM
The Tour lacks patches of brilliance and epic rivalries because WS's rivals doesn't have the swagger or the game to make it exciting. Hopefully Jankovic and Maria can challenge them and entertain my bored self.

Convoluted
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:16 PM
I don't see Demented beating Serena, Venus and Jankovic in one tournament. Especially not a grand slam.

Only realistic scenario for a Demented win for me: She beats Serena, Venus is eliminated early, she beats Safina in final.

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:18 PM
The Tour lacks patches of brilliance and epic rivalries because WS's rivals doesn't have the swagger or the game to make it exciting. Hopefully Jankovic and Maria can challenge them and entertain my bored self.

exactly... another Serena/Jankovic final would be good to at least continue the rivalry and get something going here...

harloo
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:22 PM
God, some people of this forum live in their own world. If Dementieva wins a slam, the game is finished because she apparantly has no serve. If Serena wins a slam playing part-time and coming into the event looking completely out-of-shape, it's called "besting the competition" and shows how amazingly deep the competition is. :tape:

And please, if Dementieva has no serve, then how come this multiple slam winner has lost to her 3 times straight? Ever since she started owning S. Williams, Dementieva's hate stock on TF has soared.

I've disliked Demented ever since she made false allegations about the sisters fixing matches. She's not necessarily the dainty little princess her fans make her out to be on the board.;)

But lets be honest here, while Elena has amazing ground strokes the serve is horrific. As a matter of fact, I would even venture to say that if she was to win the AO and become #1 with that type of serve many people will start to question the depth of women's tennis.

The reason Elena defeats her opponents is because of movement and while Serena's tennis skills are superior to hers, movement is the key to winning in tennis. She has exploited that quite well, but it will be interesting to see how Elena holds up in a slam. She's already been out of sorts in her first match, getting nervous and unsure of herself.

My preference is to see a #1 who has the ability to rise to the occasion. To me that's what makes you top dog, it's what made Justine stay at the top for years, Serena maintain the #1 spot for a year, and Seles so lethal. But when you see players like Ana become #1, and the prospect of Elena being #1 when they struggle with confidence on the big stage then you have to ask yourself is women's tennis a joke?:tape:

fammmmedspin
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:29 PM
Even as a Williams sisters fan, I find that the tour right now is boring. I've tried to trick myself into thinking otherwise. With players like Maria, Justine, Capriati, and Kim, you got the feeling that there was some kind of threat towards one of the Williams sisters winning the title, and the danger of having several real contenders made the tournament more exciting. Now it seems like the Williams sisters are women's tennis. :sad:

Its ended up where the Sisters arrogantly used to talk about it being long before it was - when they are on one wins, when they are off anyone can win not playing that brilliantly.The opposition to the sisters just isn't there. The list of players their age who would be competitive who ought to in the top ten or 15 and just isn't playing is ludicrous. Jen, lindsay and Mary might have gone anyway but there's no Kim, Justine, Nastya, Martina or Alicia, Anna C has been derailed since her armed robbery, Daniela is drifting again and Mirjana and Jelena D are notable by their absence too. Its essentially a future top echelon of players thats not ready, the sisters playing well every now and then , Vera and Dinara exploring their potential and Sveta failing to fulfill hers. Elena D is about the only one who looks if she belongs and even she is ranked a bit higher than she probably would be.

morningglory
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:30 PM
I feel I have to let it out too. I miss Justine. Her game had so much variety and the hard work she put in just to compete and toput those big serves in when clearly she was disadvantaged being short, was shown through out her matches, and that champion's mentality is missed. I was never a Justine fan, but really admired her for all that she achieved, albeit a bit dodgy at times with her actions.

Its just that most of these matches are becoming real error fests. It is very rare nowadays where you see a clean game with a lot less UE's to winners. Also, even more rare is to see at least one player hold serve through out the entire match, there are nearly always breaks and emphasis on improving serve doesn't seem to bother many players because of this new baseline generation, just put the serve in and focus on the ground stroke. With the exception of Serena and Vee, I can't see anyone of the top 10 having a dominant run in the Slams and being consistent. True, Dementieva is playing well, but at the same time I sometimes just sit and wonder what heights this girl could go to if she had the Ree-Vee serve.

Having said all this, I am being patient, and hoping for someone to dominate the tour for a while, to let at least the top girls raise their game so they know what they have to match up to. Why can't WTA have the big 4?

Because one is retired (rather prematurely) and one is injured :o but be patient... she'll be back :armed:
If Jankovic wins a slam would you consider her as a replacement for Justine's post? :lol: I mean, she's the most defensive top player we have right now... and the closest we have to Justine's game.

Optima
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:34 PM
People are forgetting the potential of the S./V. Williams versus Jankovic rivalry..I think it has potential to be very good. Jelena has beaten Serena 3 times, and Venus 5 times..not many people can say that. The US Open final could have been classic, Jelena SHOULD have won the second set, she had FOUR set points.

:banghead:

volta
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:36 PM
everyone is trying to be a ball bashing queen now that's what's killing it imo. there is lil to no variety, it's like every single player just wants to smack the ball and we end up with matches like Ivanovic vs George for example. there are players that aren't built for that but they feel the need to go for a winner because almost nobody knows how to defend anymore. We have no epic battles anymore, the closest it gets its Maria vs the Sis but that's it. we barely have classic matches now , the last one to me was Venus vs Lindsay Wimbledon final (and maybe Venus vs Jelena Usopen semi-final).
it's just error after error after error now :o

well that's just what makes it boring at times to me :lol:

Dave.
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:38 PM
I think you need to be concerned about Dementieva actually winning the AO and becoming #1 with that terrible serve.:lol: That will signal the end of women's tennis for good.:tape:

And to be honest, the problem isn't the sisters because they've always drew interest in the sport. What you have now is a system that rewards players who attend the Bolleteri Academy and learn one-dimensional tennis. These players have no personality, can only play one way and have no plan B when things aren't working. It makes most of the matches boring and predictable.

Elena's serve has actually improved alot. The days of her having a terrible serve are over, it's actually quite reliable now.

The bit about players having no personality and boring tennis is your opinion. Most of the top players are well received all over the world and all have big fanbases on here.

btw, Venus was one dimensional when she was breaking through on the tour and she still drew alot of interest.

pav
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:11 PM
The only boring time in women's tennis is Serena strutting around telling all and sundry how wonderful she is and always thinking she is some kind of fashion breakthough, instead of a fashion breakdown!

Apoleb
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:17 PM
Completely agree with you, supergrunt. Besides the WS, everyone else is either crap or semi-crap, with Sharapova injured. Maybe Jelena is the only one who can deliver quality, even when the WS are playing good. But if the WS play to up to 50% of their ability, they are winning, except on clay.

Apoleb
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:19 PM
The fact that people are bringing up Dementieva as "the" threat to the WS already says a lot about the state of women's tennis. :sad:

shell
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Ah ha, I knew you guys were going to miss Justine! ;)

OK, in all seriousness, I agree with the issue of the style of play. And I'm not saying Justine was a S/V machine or anything, but at least she COULD and DID throw in a mix. It kept it interesting, because points were constructed and opportunities exploited.

I just don't find that in the current mix of top 10 (both WS being the exception, and Sveta can do it when she's in the match mentally).

Nobody stands out, so yes, it is a bit boring at the moment. But certainly a shift will come. A one diminsional game cannot stand on it's own. It has been shown the way to beat baseline bashing - bash well, and add variety and aggresive all court play.

Apoleb
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Ah ha, I knew you guys were going to miss Justine! ;)

OK, in all seriousness, I agree with the issue of the style of play. And I'm not saying Justine was a S/V machine or anything, but at least she COULD and DID throw in a mix. It kept it interesting, because points were constructed and opportunities exploited.

I just don't find that in the current mix of top 10 (both WS being the exception, and Sveta can do it when she's in the match mentally).

Nobody stands out, so yes, it is a bit boring at the moment. But certainly a shift will come. A one diminsional game cannot stand on it's own. It has been shown the way to beat baseline bashing - bash well, and add variety and aggresive all court play.

It's not really the game that is the biggest issue. It's the simple fact that there are no champion-quality players other than WS. They all break down under the pressure, and cannot deliver at the big moment. And on top of it, they don't seem to have the passion to put in the effort that someone like Justine did. Jelena is the closest one to being a real challenge, but I dunno if she's in form for this week. Ana is a complete mess. And the others I won't even bother with.

shell
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:44 PM
It's not really the game that is the biggest issue. It's the simple fact that there are no champion-quality players other than WS. They all break down under the pressure, and cannot deliver at the big moment. And on top of it, they don't seem to have the passion to put in the effort that someone like Justine did. Jelena is the closest one to being a real challenge, but I dunno if she's in form for this week. Ana is a complete mess. And the others I won't even bother with.

Yes, I agree here too. JJ has been the most consistent, but can't seem to gather herself for the big matches. The others can't seem to keep it together week in and week out.

clonesheep
Jan 20th, 2009, 08:01 PM
I have to agree with the OP. During the days when Henin, Sharapova, Capriati, etc. were active, there's so much tension everytime a Williams, especially Serena, played one of them. It's like an "event". There's so much fighting and hatred on this board for those big matches but it was lively and fun. Now, we are left with a bunch of clowns fighting the Sisters which is just not as compelling. Look at the so-called stars in the top 10 today:

Elena Dementieva: Has severe weakness in her game. No one fears her. Even journeywomen of the tour don't fear her. Has never gone above No.4 in the ranking in her entire career. That's as high as Jelena Dokic has achieved.

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic: Combined have 0-13 head-to-head against Justine Henin. They are still second-tier in my book. Would not have ascended to No.1 if Justine were still around.

Dinara Safina, Kuznetsova, the other Russians: Hard strickers but mentally weak. Not serious threat.

homogenius
Jan 20th, 2009, 08:11 PM
I have to agree with the OP. During the days when Henin, Sharapova, Capriati, etc. were active, there's so much tension everytime a Williams, especially Serena, played one of them. It's like an "event". There's so much fighting and hatred on this board for those big matches but it was lively and fun. Now, we are left with a bunch of clowns fighting the Sisters which is just not as compelling. Look at the so-called stars in the top 10 today:

Elena Dementieva: Has severe weakness in her game. No one fears her. Even journeywomen of the tour don't fear her. Has never gone above No.4 in the ranking in her entire career. That's as high as Jelena Dokic has achieved.

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic: Combined have 0-13 head-to-head against Justine Henin. They are still second-tier in my book. Would not have ascended to No.1 if Justine were still around.

Dinara Safina, Kuznetsova, the other Russians: Hard strickers but mentally weak. Not serious threat.

:spit: :bs:

AnomyBC
Jan 20th, 2009, 08:44 PM
Well I agree in the sense that women's tennis is obviously in a sorry state at the moment with so many big players out of the picture, but it's far from assured that a Williams sister is actually going to win this title. At the very least Dementieva, who's been playing the best so far this year, has a good chance of taking it, and I think that Jankovic and Safina both have a pretty decent chance as well. Ivanovic may still have a chance too, if she can pull herself together. And you can't count out Wozniacki and Azarenka either, although I don't think either of them are actually ready to win a slam yet. Also, the way Serena's been playing lately it wouldn't be a big surprise if she went out early.

laurie
Jan 20th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Even as a Williams sisters fan, I find that the tour right now is boring. I've tried to trick myself into thinking otherwise. With players like Maria, Justine, Capriati, and Kim, you got the feeling that there was some kind of threat towards one of the Williams sisters winning the title, and the danger of having several real contenders made the tournament more exciting. Now it seems like the Williams sisters are women's tennis. :sad:

I agree that although the tour has been reorganised this year, it's a bit ironic that the top 10 doesn't seem very strong.

One of the reasons is precisely what you mentioned - those players have world wide appeal and acclamation, but that didn't happen overnight - they built that reputation for themselves through winning big matches and titles, sometimes through sheer guts - Capriati's win over Hingis at the 2002 Aussie final, Henin's win over Capriati at the 2003 US Open semi, Venus' win over Davenport at 2005 Wimbledon - all matches which enhanced their reputations as fighters.

At the moment it seems to me that some players are not quite ready to fight to the end in the big matches. We also have the very serious issue of a lack of clash of styles which made for great Tennis at the slams - Mauresmo v Clijsters, Henin v Sharapova, Graf v Seles, Novotna v Hingis, Hingis v Serena etc etc. We don't really have any interesting match ups right now - which as we all know brings Tennis to a much wider audience, not just Tennis fans. Unfortunately I don’t hear of any young female players coming up with a Henin or Mauresmo type game.

Lets assess the situation after Wimbledon to see how things pan out - but right now I'm concerned because when I look players like Safina, Ivanovic, Dementieva, even Jankovic I see players with some deficiencies - Dementieva has serious technical problems with her serve; in the final against Vesnina two weeks ago, one 2nd serve was so bad it actually hit the umpire's chair - that's very embarrassing and when it comes to the latter stages of slams, that lack of belief in what is the most important shot in the game, will mean she will probably come unstuck again. I just don't think it's possible to win a slam with that sort of lack of technical skill.

I also feel Safina's movement is just not good enough at the highest level, and unlike Davenport doesn't have the pure ball striking skills to cover that, or decent net play. I also think that Ivanovic plays far too much on instinct (like Vaidisova actually) and not smart enough and therefore can't sustain hot streaks which makes her wildly inconsistent - if Ana learns to play smart she could well win more than 5 majors, we'll see on that one.

Jankovic, again in previous years, no one would look at her as number 1 material by any stretch of the imagination. Smart player but fairly weak serve and weak 2nd serve in particular, not an instinctively aggressive player - more a counterpuncher who is prepared to wait for the opening as opposed to making things happen. How far can that go?

Ironically, Svetlana is one player who has all the shots, has variety, has good net play, aggression, athleticism - all the ingredients for a potential number 1 player but she just can't seem to get it together - I wonder if she will mature late like Mauresmo did?

So it's not a golden era for womens Tennis right now. Sharapova coming back will certainly improve things greatly, but like I said, we will have to give these younger players time to see what they can come up with.

Vespertine69
Jan 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
I find the most dull thing of all to be the weird rose-tinted spectacles people automatically don when visiting even the relatively recent past. People are now bemoaning the loss of all the competition that was there from players (I'd cite Myskina as great example) in those golden, halcyon days of 4-5 years ago... and on the same hand, complaining about the weakness of someone like Dementieva, who was achieving pretty similar results on tour in pretty much the same time period. Myskina won a few more big matches, sure... but she was hardly a bastion of solidity and mental strength.

There is certainly a hole left by Justine's retirement and Sharapova's injury woes, but it's just silly to be pining for Clijsters and Myskina, when loads of people whined about them not being good enough back then. Jankovic is getting slated for being too weak to win a slam... flashbacks to Kim anyone? Jankovic has a better success rate against Venus and Serena and she still has plenty chances to equal Kim's slam success.

I think people really do need to think about how the past is always viewed. In anything people have a close attachment to, be it their lives, be it music or a sport... people almost always view the past as having been amazing, which is completely natural because they have a big repository of positive memories linked to that subject, but it really isn't rational to trust our automatic nostalgia. I have so many warm fuzzy memories from the early-mid nineties when I first started following the women's tour, but it really wasn't any better in substantive quality, it's just that I remember it fondly because the memories are important to me.

The present is always the time that is up for the harshest critique... again, this is how our brains function and it's totally natural, but I don't think we should be so swayed by this as to start thinking the present is always crap because there is A, B and C wrong with it. There has ALWAYS been A, B or C wrong with the state of any subject, it's just that now we are worrying about new ABC's and have swapped those old ones for the happy memories about the good bits from the era we just got done worrying with!

Don't get me wrong, there are problems with the game just now, no question... but don't delude yourselves into thinking the past was all that - before you guys judge Ivanovic, Jankovic, Dementieva, et al... try waiting 10 years and then look back on them.

pepaw
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:04 PM
just wait for sharapova to come back in a few weeks.

SharapovaFan16
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:05 PM
You guys realize the OP only did this to talk about the Williams Sisters right? Nice try supergrunt, but I'm not taking the bait like all of these other idiots. Troll work at its finest.

RenaSlam.
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Once Williamspova is engaged once again, the tour will be magical :hearts:

Come back soon, Maria!

supergrunt
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:09 PM
I find the most dull thing of all to be the weird rose-tinted spectacles people automatically don when visiting even the relatively recent past. People are now bemoaning the loss of all the competition that was there from players (I'd cite Myskina as great example) in those golden, halcyon days of 4-5 years ago... and on the same hand, complaining about the weakness of someone like Dementieva, who was achieving pretty similar results on tour in pretty much the same time period. Myskina won a few more big matches, sure... but she was hardly a bastion of solidity and mental strength.

There is certainly a hole left by Justine's retirement and Sharapova's injury woes, but it's just silly to be pining for Clijsters and Myskina, when loads of people whined about them not being good enough back then. Jankovic is getting slated for being too weak to win a slam... flashbacks to Kim anyone? Jankovic has a better success rate against Venus and Serena and she still has plenty chances to equal Kim's slam success.

I think people really do need to think about how the past is always viewed. In anything people have a close attachment to, be it their lives, be it music or a sport... people almost always view the past as having been amazing, which is completely natural because they have a big repository of positive memories linked to that subject, but it really isn't rational to trust our automatic nostalgia. I have so many warm fuzzy memories from the early-mid nineties when I first started following the women's tour, but it really wasn't any better in substantive quality, it's just that I remember it fondly because the memories are important to me.

The present is always the time that is up for the harshest critique... again, this is how our brains function and it's totally natural, but I don't think we should be so swayed by this as to start thinking the present is always crap because there is A, B and C wrong with it. There has ALWAYS been A, B or C wrong with the state of any subject, it's just that now we are worrying about new ABC's and have swapped those old ones for the happy memories about the good bits from the era we just got done worrying with!

Don't get me wrong, there are problems with the game just now, no question... but don't delude yourselves into thinking the past was all that - before you guys judge Ivanovic, Jankovic, Dementieva, et al... try waiting 10 years and then look back on them.

so the quality of the tennis and the tour now is just as good as it was in the relatively recent past?

Dav.
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:14 PM
For me, the WTA was the most interesting from late 96-early 06.

Apart from slam finals, 04 was very entertaining and contained so many great stories, former champions and new faces.

sammy01
Jan 20th, 2009, 10:16 PM
I find the most dull thing of all to be the weird rose-tinted spectacles people automatically don when visiting even the relatively recent past. People are now bemoaning the loss of all the competition that was there from players (I'd cite Myskina as great example) in those golden, halcyon days of 4-5 years ago... and on the same hand, complaining about the weakness of someone like Dementieva, who was achieving pretty similar results on tour in pretty much the same time period. Myskina won a few more big matches, sure... but she was hardly a bastion of solidity and mental strength.

There is certainly a hole left by Justine's retirement and Sharapova's injury woes, but it's just silly to be pining for Clijsters and Myskina, when loads of people whined about them not being good enough back then. Jankovic is getting slated for being too weak to win a slam... flashbacks to Kim anyone? Jankovic has a better success rate against Venus and Serena and she still has plenty chances to equal Kim's slam success.

I think people really do need to think about how the past is always viewed. In anything people have a close attachment to, be it their lives, be it music or a sport... people almost always view the past as having been amazing, which is completely natural because they have a big repository of positive memories linked to that subject, but it really isn't rational to trust our automatic nostalgia. I have so many warm fuzzy memories from the early-mid nineties when I first started following the women's tour, but it really wasn't any better in substantive quality, it's just that I remember it fondly because the memories are important to me.

The present is always the time that is up for the harshest critique... again, this is how our brains function and it's totally natural, but I don't think we should be so swayed by this as to start thinking the present is always crap because there is A, B and C wrong with it. There has ALWAYS been A, B or C wrong with the state of any subject, it's just that now we are worrying about new ABC's and have swapped those old ones for the happy memories about the good bits from the era we just got done worrying with!

Don't get me wrong, there are problems with the game just now, no question... but don't delude yourselves into thinking the past was all that - before you guys judge Ivanovic, Jankovic, Dementieva, et al... try waiting 10 years and then look back on them.

as much as a lot of that is true (and i certainly don't pine for myskina) the years of 1997 to '03 were a great age for womens tennis. '04 through to '08 it has been on a steady decline made worse by henins retirement last year. you only need to look at television numbers to know that a lot of people have lost intrest since '03, and that people are finding it harder to warm to todays supposed stars. it is also true that the later stages of slams can fizzle out nowadays, were as it used to be said the womens draw in slams really comes alive from the qtrs onwards.
i don't know whats missing from todays players, but there just not as consistent on the biggest stages as stars of the last 10 years and some may argue this is because of improved depth, im still of the mind improved technology is letting players hit harder with very brittle technique to fall back on when the hits turn to misses. ivanovic is a big example of this. in my mind venus and serenas standards have dropped, but they can still put together great tournaments when it counts which is why people cling to them so dearly. they are probably the only 2 players along with a fit sharapova that i truely believe will put in a good/great performance when it matters.

Olórin
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:06 PM
God, some people of this forum live in their own world. If Dementieva wins a slam, the game is finished because she apparantly has no serve. If Serena wins a slam playing part-time and coming into the event looking completely out-of-shape, it's called "besting the competition" and shows how amazingly deep the competition is. :tape:

And please, if Dementieva has no serve, then how come this multiple slam winner has lost to her 3 times straight? Ever since she started owning S. Williams, Dementieva's hate stock on TF has soared.

In 5 days?

Losing in three sets even if the last two are one-sided is not ownage, neither is losing a match that was within your control.

Elena should definitely get all the credit for her wins, but the tournaments at Moscow and Sydney were some of the worst tennis Serena has played in the past two years.

Olórin
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:10 PM
For me, the WTA was the most interesting from late 96-early 06.

Apart from slam finals, 04 was very entertaining and contained so many great stories, former champions and new faces.

I agree 2004 on the whole was an exciting year. I think the quality in the showcase matches was patchy, which is why people tend to cite it as the end of the golden era.

I think 2005 was a good year also, but champions started getting more and more patchy and inconsistent, 2006 onwards saw this trend continue with only Henin and Sharapova* really holding the fort, by 2007 it was only Justine and she retired.

Of course there was Amelie, but she was "only" really a true top 4 force, challenging for every tournament she entered, in 2006.

Craig.
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Don't worry, Maria'll be back soon. :dance:

AcesHigh
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:19 PM
I'm kind of getting tired of the bitching from WS and Sharapova fans. Yes, the tour isnt as great as it once was.. but it doesnt suddenly improve when WS+Sharapova win. The tour will survive with or without them.

If you have no interest in the game, plz do us a favor and watch something else

SharapovaFan16
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:33 PM
I'm kind of getting tired of the bitching from WS and Sharapova fans. Yes, the tour isnt as great as it once was.. but it doesnt suddenly improve when WS+Sharapova win. The tour will survive with or without them.

If you have no interest in the game, plz do us a favor and watch something else

I hope this is directed at the OP. I really do.

serenus_2k8
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:38 PM
:lol: I think the game is great as we are evidently about to enter the era of british domination :rocker:

Seriously though, its interesting, though I feel that nothing short of Venus and Serena winning is acceptable...

wally1
Jan 21st, 2009, 12:07 AM
The main problem I see is the lack of variety in playing style - all you see these days is minor variations on the baseline theme. Tennis is so much more interesting to watch (imo) when you can see a contrast in styles. My favourite shots in tennis have always been volleying and the one-handed backhand - now they're just about extinct.:sad:

morningglory
Jan 21st, 2009, 12:09 AM
The main problem I see is the lack of variety in playing style - all you see these days is minor variations on the baseline theme. Tennis is so much more interesting to watch (imo) when you can see a contrast in styles. My favourite shots in tennis have always been volleying and the one-handed backhand - now they're just about extinct.:sad:

Indeed. RIP one-handed BH... we will probably never see such a shot executed as well as Justine or Peak Mauresmo had been doing for a long long long long long long time.
Volleying however is still alive; Venus is quite the octopus at the net.

supergrunt
Jan 21st, 2009, 12:28 AM
I hope this is directed at the OP. I really do.

:p

Renalicious
Jan 21st, 2009, 12:52 AM
I agree, you look at the ATP and you have four players at the top REALLY contending for slams. You look at the WTA and there's really only two, and they're both from the same family. :help:

Dave.
Jan 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM
I agree, you look at the ATP and you have four players at the top REALLY contending for slams. You look at the WTA and there's really only two, and they're both from the same family. :help:

Elena and Venus are related? :lol:

Seriously, aside from those 2 favourites, there are a group of 4-5 who are capable of winning slams. Venus and Serena have both had losses in slams in the last year so it's impossible to say they are the only contenders.

starin
Jan 21st, 2009, 01:28 AM
i've always felt the tennis seaosn is too long. They need to give fans some time to miss it.

and as for women's tennis. it is rather :yawn: at times.

Vespertine69
Jan 21st, 2009, 02:16 AM
Hmm, I wrote a long response to a few of you, but it just crashed my f'ing browser and I lost the damn thing. A very brief condensation of it:

The crux of my argument is that there is no qualitative way to find an empirical answer to whether things are better or worse than in previous years. We can have all sorts of opinions back and forth, but I think the only logical and factual conclusion is that things are ever-changing and that may or may not please us individually. It is all down to taste. We can say pretty accurately that there are more errors these days, but also the women can definitely hit harder, and make some truly spectacular winners from the baseline. We can say that there are lot more upsets, but we can't conclude whether that is improved depth or worsening quality at the top. It all depends what you like, what you value most, and whether the circumstances of today's game sit well with each of us.

I suppose my main annoyance with the "it sucks now" thing is the futility of it... it's an argument that leads to nothing but feeling a bit depressed and nostalgic. There are things about the current game which we all hate, but why not look for the positives (which I think are definitely out there...) instead of wishing for a past that cannot be had, or a future we have no control over.

Miss Amor
Jan 21st, 2009, 02:21 AM
The confession booth is over there, next to sweet cleo.

Vespertine69
Jan 21st, 2009, 02:26 AM
The confession booth is over there, next to sweet cleo.

Shit... you mean that isn't the glory hole? :o

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jan 21st, 2009, 02:49 AM
The WTA needs a saviour like Rafa on the ATP

DimaDinosaur
Jan 21st, 2009, 04:00 AM
I think we both know Dementieva isn't beating Serena in a slam. :rolleyes:

I agree. I mean puhlease, Serena at a grand slam is
different than Serena at a Tier 2 tournament that nobody gives a SIN DIOS NI LEY about. :lol:

Polikarpov
Jan 21st, 2009, 07:34 AM
Maybe you should join the tour and make it exciting yourself.

Anyway how can you make the tour more exciting? Let a tranny participate perhaps? Oh, wait Bammer already did. lol.

supergrunt
Jan 21st, 2009, 10:31 PM
Hmm, I wrote a long response to a few of you, but it just crashed my f'ing browser and I lost the damn thing. A very brief condensation of it:

The crux of my argument is that there is no qualitative way to find an empirical answer to whether things are better or worse than in previous years. We can have all sorts of opinions back and forth, but I think the only logical and factual conclusion is that things are ever-changing and that may or may not please us individually. It is all down to taste. We can say pretty accurately that there are more errors these days, but also the women can definitely hit harder, and make some truly spectacular winners from the baseline. We can say that there are lot more upsets, but we can't conclude whether that is improved depth or worsening quality at the top. It all depends what you like, what you value most, and whether the circumstances of today's game sit well with each of us.

I suppose my main annoyance with the "it sucks now" thing is the futility of it... it's an argument that leads to nothing but feeling a bit depressed and nostalgic. There are things about the current game which we all hate, but why not look for the positives (which I think are definitely out there...) instead of wishing for a past that cannot be had, or a future we have no control over.


are you joking? do we have control over anything discussed on the tennis forum? :o

Russianboy
Jan 21st, 2009, 10:46 PM
I'm not saying Dementeiva won't ever win a GS.. but do any of the girls left have the champion mentality or quite frankly the skills to beat a Williams sister in a GRAND SLAM!?!? IF they are PLAYING WELL?!?! And then win the WHOLE THING??!

of course if players look at the sisters (or other great players like maria etc.) like u POINTED OUT in your post, they won't beat them, cuz they have too much respect or dont believe in themselves.
but there are players that dont care if there is brie or serena on the other side of the court. they just look on their game. if they win, they won. never mind if it's a williams.

but I guess serena is god for u, so of course NOBODY can beat her or her saintly sister in a GRAND SLAM if they are PLAYING WELL!!! and of course they dont win the WHOLE THING!!! :tape:

:)

supergrunt
Jan 21st, 2009, 10:58 PM
of course if players look at the sisters (or other great players like maria etc.) like u POINTED OUT in your post, they won't beat them, cuz they have too much respect or dont believe in themselves.
but there are players that dont care if there is brie or serena on the other side of the court. they just look on their game. if they win, they won. never mind if it's a williams.

but I guess serena is god for u, so of course NOBODY can beat her or her saintly sister in a GRAND SLAM if they are PLAYING WELL!!! and of course they dont win the WHOLE THING!!! :tape:

:)

i didn't get your point :o

AnomyBC
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:36 AM
This post is going to turn out to be pretty ironic, because it's looking like there may not even be a Williams sister that makes the Semis at this point.

supergrunt
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:39 AM
This post is going to turn out to be pretty ironic, because it's looking like there may not even be a Williams sister that makes the Semis at this point.

the tournament isn't even in its second week... and who would have predicted that Navaro would have beaten Venus. She'll probably just loose in straights in the next round.

SharapovaFan16
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:40 AM
Tennis still boring now bitch? HAHAHA! You trying to actually defend yourself in your own thread shows how pathetic you are.

supergrunt
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:51 AM
Tennis still boring now bitch? HAHAHA! You trying to actually defend yourself in your own thread shows how pathetic you are.

:unsure:

patricio
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:56 AM
another williams down-on-your-knees pray thread???? Didnt we have enough already?

SharapovaFan16
Jan 22nd, 2009, 11:58 AM
:unsure:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you are pathetic.

Carofan
Jan 31st, 2009, 10:48 AM
Have to admit this tournament was awfull. Many players are to blame for this crap, the serbs were awfull, Elena choked as always, Venus was a joke, Kuzzi big and fat, Safina "cakewalk" awfull in the final. If female tennis is gonna have a future its time to get asses in gear!

supergrunt
May 30th, 2009, 05:43 AM
To be completely honest I can't see anyone beating Serena here either. :shrug: