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View Full Version : The official 'WTF is wrong with Ana?' thread-discussion.


Dexter
Jan 20th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Ok, I decided to create this subject to gather all my thoughts on Ana 'the current' and spurr some discussion. I'm not doing it in GM, because we all know into what it would turn.
So she has reached the 2nd round of AO in a shaky fashion, much like last year. The quality of opponent is somewhat the same. For me Goerges has enormous talent, I've been following for over a year, but she doesn't seem to be improving and is stuck around #100's in the ranks; Sorana wasn't a top100 player either when Ana played her in 2008 and is currently ranked in the #30s and seems on the way up. So it was actually a decent win... The point is that Ana played sh!te in that match. Actually the beginning of 2008 year was a really sloppy tennis from Ana. I mean she almost lost to Razzano, lost a set to Srebotnik against whom she's never dropped one before (and she was *3-1 up if I remember well!), then she took a set of Henin, but it was more due to craptastic serving by Justine than thanks to some brave tennis. Now how does the lead up to AO 2009 looks like. 1 straight sets win, 1 comeback win, one loss in straights. That gives us about the same amount of match-tennis she's played coming to Melbourne. There's 'only' one huge difference in quality... the serve. I don't know where her serve disappeared.
Last year in the 2nd round she faced an Italian Garbin and she played superb tennis, with hardly any errors up until late in the 2nd set, she had a healthy lead so in the end she somehow stummbled across the finishing line. But it was a really clean performance. Measured aggression, great netplay, great returning, very good serving. It was a performance that made me think she can go far in the draw. Sure, the quality of the opponent wasn't the greatest but I think for Ana what counts the most is HOW she plays and IF what she decides to play is working.
So far in 2009, nothing seems to be working about her game. I said it many times, but the most important thing in Ana's game is her serve. She's ALWAYS struggling when it's shit. It seems like she can't put her mind together when she has to think if she will have troubles holding or not. Now, it's not even worrying about serving alone, it's about throwing this yellow shit up STRAIGHT. She can't even do that on the regular basis. It looks like she has to start from the scratch with her gameplan, and without a constant coach in her corner it's gonna be tough.
I'm not holding much hope for a victory in Melbourne this year for Ana. But then again who knows, maybe she will find her best tennis out of nowhere as it was the case before with her. If other players can do it, so she can, I believe in her. How many times Venus & Serena played like shit in the early rounds and getting the W even in a terrible fashion spurred them on to get to the final stages. I'm well aware than Ana is no Serena nor Venus, but I believe than she IS able to dig deep and find her best tennis when she has to. But quite frankly if I had to bet my life on whether Ana is going to win AO this year or not, I would definitely say NO.
That being said I'm a superstitious person and I believe that history likes to repeat. Ana won RG after being the runner-up in the previous year, Maria won AO last year after losing to Serena in the final in 2007. Even exactly the same scoreline of Ana in the 1st round this year and in 2008 is somewhat of an omen to me. :lol: The other thing is the draw, which if Ana had been in form, I would have called a dream one. Safina, Wozniacki, Janković, Zwonariowa all are Ana's bitches. The other thing that might work into Ana's favour is that she's kind of written off by many people. Remember last year? At the beggining of the tournament nobody was saying that Maria is going to win. Many people were predicting a loss to Lindsay in the 2nd round and we all know how it ended up.
Also Ana seems to love Melbourne, has enormous support down there and it can be a major factor.
I'd like to flip my 5 cents about Ana's on-court behaviour too. Whilst I'm a fan of a player displaying a positive attitude, I start to lean towards people who dislike Ana's behaviour and say it's fake. I mean often you can see any fault in your fave, so you don't even pay attention. But I tried to look more objective on it in the last months. I came to conclusion that Ana was told to do that by Sven. Ana seems to play her best tennis when she's in this sort of frenzy, with all those CMONs, AJDEs and fistpumping. Well, when she's winning - so be it and we could not care less. I think however that Ana reached the point when she can't find a balance, there's really no point in doing this after each and every point she wins. I don't even think that she pays attention anymore on how she won the point. When the match reaches some stage when she thinks it's time to kick ass, she finally decides... time to switch it on: point won = you must fistpump. If that's her way to motivate herself so be it. But she could do a lot better [the sort of attitude she was presenting till Wimbledon 2007], more balanced, more natural. Pure Ana we fell in love with.
I think Ana really got involved into working with Sven as he gave her many ideas and developed many habits and tactics. But since then two don't work together anymore so much, some doubts must've crept into Ana's mind. Sadly she can't so far find any confidence in herself. She really must.
So tonight she plays Brianti... It's really irrevelant who she plays actually at this point. I want Ana to play well and not like a junior, and above all to serve like a top100 player (she's not even serving like one currently :tape:). Already last year it was Ana bullshitting her way to the final... For now she's bullshitting her way through any match she plays to find her form.

Your thoughts, guys?

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 01:49 PM
That was very interesting Dexter. I'm going to think about it a bit, and I'll post my thoughts.

I've read from someone who saw Ana practising today in Melbourne that when she was working on her serve she seemed very frustrated. That's a very bad sign.. when Ana is frustrated, things tend to get even worse.

By the way.. her serve is being compared with Dementieva's serve by every commentator around now. That's something I never thought was posible, and it's something that really puzzles me. I mean.. Ana used to have such a great serve, and all of a sudden it disappeared. I know that she changed the motion a bit, and that has an influence in the outcome of her present serving, but still.. it has gone from great to crap. I believe the mental factor is key here. She has no confidence and the first part of her game that gets affected is her serve. She should get a serving coach ASAP.

Dexter
Jan 20th, 2009, 01:52 PM
I remember when Ana played LenaD in Indian Wells 2006, the commentator actually said that if Lena could serve like Ana does she would be the player to beat.

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
I remember when Ana played LenaD in Indian Wells 2006, the commentator actually said that if Lena could serve like Ana does she would be the player to beat.

I think that could be a very fair comment. Elena's ground strokes are usually super solid, and she can run down most balls... her serve has always been a liability. And she learned how to compensate it.

I feel like that's another problem with Ana. Since she has always had such a great serve, she learned to lean on it to get confidence and to be able to put pressure on the opponent's serve. She has always sad that it's important for her when she holds easily, because she can focus on breaking her opponent. I think that when her serve goes missing, she worries about it too much, and all the other areas of her game faulters. She doesn't know how to compensate her serving issues qith other parts of her game, like Dementieva.

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:04 PM
About the AO draw.. If Ana was playing well, I would be really confident about it. She has only players that she holds good h2hs against... and all the players that own her are on the other side. Not only Dementieva, Venus and Serena... also Jie Zheng and Julie Coin! :lol::help::tape:

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:10 PM
By the way.. doesn anyone know how Brianti plays? I have never seen her play..

Dexter
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:14 PM
I have seen her play a bit against Caro in Auckland. There's nothing outstanding about her, she is quite fast as most of the Italians, one-handed BH, can construct the points well, but she likes the finishing shot. Not really the greatest server.

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:20 PM
I have seen her play a bit against Caro in Auckland. There's nothing outstanding about her, she is quite fast as most of the Italians, one-handed BH, can construct the points well, but she likes the finishing shot. Not really the greatest server.

Thanks Dexter!

At the end of the day, it all goes down to Ana anyway, so.. If she can keep the ball inside the lines and manage to serve decently..

As I said in the other thread.. during Serena's match yesterday, she was having trouble with the ball toss from one end of the court, because of the sun. At one point she would just make sure she would place the serve well by having a low ball toss and slicing it. I thought that was very smart. Ana needs to learn how to manage her serving woes, so it doesn't affect the rest of her game.

jelenacg
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yes like I said it`s an easy draw,too bad she won`t use it
Serve is a very important part of her game and having to repest same ball toss many times can affect her rhythm
I think she just starts to think about a ball toss and her serve and not about how to play the next point
Although i think her serve is still very efficient if you forget about that horrible ball toss
What is worrying to me is the fact that she was standing behind the baseline all the time in her last match
That match basically she didn`t win it more like Goerges lost it

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 02:41 PM
What is worrying to me is the fact that she was standing behind the baseline all the time in her last match
That match basically she didn`t win it more like Goerges lost it

Ana actually aknowledged that during her post match presser. She said she would try to step in more in her next match.
But now I'm worried she will come out against Brianti trying to be more agressive and ballbash every second ball. Ana has to learn that being agressive isn't just about hitting hard.

gaviotabr
Jan 20th, 2009, 03:23 PM
Ok.. some random thoughts about this issue..

I think Ana hasn't found a mental balance since winning RG. She had that really unfortunate injury, that apart from affecting her head, also made her change grips and service motion. The injury made her get fed up with tennis, which led to poor performances, and especially an inability to close out close matches. She lost 7 matches of her last 9 losses following the exact same pattern: 1 good dominant set, 2 really bad, wasting inumerous chances to win in the third. She seemed to find some fire again in Zurich and Linz, and improved her game slightly. She actually served pretty well in matches like against Venus or Penetta. And her groundstrokes at least had depht in those 2 tournaments. Things got back to sucking at the YEC, but Ana was sick, and we have to cut her some slack. What I mean with all that is that I think she was fighting, but not enjoying tennis as she would normally do.. she didn't have that mental balance.

I thought that things couldn't really get any worse.. but they did. Maybe all the hard work Ana put in the off season was misused.. I mean.. she was without a coach.. she could be doing things to improve her shots that ended up having the opposite effect. Maybe she is just unable to concentrate, because of all her serving woes. I'm clueless of how her serve got from great to crap in such a short ammount of time, so I just don't know what to say about that. But sometimes I just feel Ana is a bit lost. She had no mental balance in the second part of last year, and maybe she is searching for it now, but hasn't founf it yet, being on a bit of a limbo. She does seem to be a bit stronger mentally in relation to the second half of the year. She saved multiple break points against Kvitova in Brisbane and managed to play well in key points.. I think she would have lost that match to Vinci a couple of months ago. Even the AO match, she won on sheer determination alone. I'm not saying that she is totally mentally though, but in this departament at least it's a bit better than last year. So she wants it, at least I think she does. But she hasn't found that calm and confidence to go with it, that could bring her game together. She had a lot going on in her personal life, and all these changes could also mess a bit with her emotions, even if she doesn't think so. I think for this to end, Ana will have to have a lucky week or 2, where everything falls into place somehow, so she can find her confidence and mental balance, and be just enjoying tennis again. At that moment I think her game will click again. How long will it take? I have just no idea.. it may take days, weeks, months.. I hope it doesn't take more than it should.. and it should be ending by now.

As for AO.. I just have no expectations whatsoever.. I'm just going to see it match by match.. I hope Ana can win today.. but as usual just about anything can happen. Last year, both in AO and in RG, Ana clicked in the second match. She played great against Garbin and against Safarova. I believe those matches were key for her to get confident and really feel like she could go all the way. Let's see how she does in this second round. She needs to get to a good start, which should get her more confortable and relaxed. I'm worried about what I read from her practice though, that she was very frustrated with her serve and ball toss. It's not really surprising, but Frustrated Ana tends to be brainless and ballbash. Ana needs to learn how to manage it and compensate it with other areas of her game. If the serve is not working, than just focus on the forehand.. maybe if she worries less about her serve it might just get better.

More than anything though, I feel like Ana needs to learn how to construct points and change strategies over the course of the match. To just stop and think: "Ok.. my groundtrokes are not going in, so I'll just try to move my opponent around using angles with some margin until I get a short ball". Or something like it.. Here again I feel clueless, because sometimes I just think that these last few matchs is the worst and most brainless Ana has ever played. Even in 2005-6 when she wasn't yet a top player, she wouldn't be so vulnerable like now. :sobbing: :sad:

jonnyroyale_13
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:30 PM
good lord! when does this thread come out in paperback? Seriously, i enjoyed reading this thread.

Its no wonder we are left speculating so much, because her website, and now reporters arent saying much. We have no choice but to speculate. Her advice on the ball toss was to just let the bad ones drop??! Thats not advice, and fixes nothing.
When she throws up a serve, she should have already decided where the location of the serve will be and anticipated how the return will look. Her thoughts should be on visualizing this happening, not worrying about the toss. Now she is clearly thinking about it. This has to be fixed immediately. I doubt it will be fixed by the next match. Ana has a good return game. But she can not make her living by the return game. She must have the serve working, asap. I think many things will improve once she gets this problem over with.
The oncourt 'ajdes' i have mixed feelings on. She used to be much more shy about letting out the emotion, now she wears it all on her sleeve. I dont think its fake at all. If her confidence is really gone now its no wonder she celebrates an unforced error with a fistpump. She is struggling to win a point by herself, so she is only celebrating that she won the point. At the same time i can see how others can be annoyed by it, but it doesnt bother me.
Thats it for now, just bought a new 1 TB external hardrive, and im dying to tear into this box:drool:

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Well, thoughts are still the same. I can mostly say the things I've already said.
We can just guess what Ana is thinking. What does she do to get out of this? And if she really aware of what the problem might be?

About Ana's behaviour. She's a girl who could be influenced easily. During a match she does exactly what Sven says. In her first years she was just herself, but later you saw her copying things from other players. Turning around just like Hantuchova to take more time. Barely saw her grunt in 2005/2006, but just had to follow the cows after that. Showing a fist is not a bad thing, but doing it after an error to get to 0-15 is totally unnecessary. I don't know what to think of it.
I saw her for the first time in real life, Antwerp 2007. So silent in everything she does. Not the same as what I saw in the last tournaments.
But as long as she wins in a fair way it's ok. In the final of RG 2007, she gave a point to Henin cause she said Henin's ball was in.
If I compare this to the AO SF against Hantuchova. Hantuchova's ball was in after watching the challenge. Ana wanted a replay the point. "I could easily play the ball, I was right there'. Everyone could see that was totally not the case.
Then also the Dechy 'hat' at Wimbledon issue. And now also the sound of a linesman in her match against Goerges. Sound or no sound, she never could bring the ball back.
You could say Ana is right about that rule, but the Ana in her early days wouldn't do that. A true champion doesn't need it.
So to be honest, her behaviour annoys me sometimes.


Then back to her GAME. The serve is indeed a big factor. She can have a good serve and it plays so much easier when it works. You get some free points and you can count on it at difficult times. Now she struggles when the point isn't even started.
That balltoss is still unexplainable. Now it's even worse than ever.
Her FH is also not what it used to be. It's just all what happens around it.
When your tactics aren't good, serve won't work at all and the confidence isn't high enough, then it looks like the FH has no room to the skills.
Movement is also a weird thing. It can change be every match. And training has nothing to do with it.
Only thing that remains at decent quality is the volley's and her will to fight.
Even with a bad form, she still knows how to save MP's and to turn a match. The fighting is what brings her matches now. But everything has it's limits of course.
And with 10 volley's a match, it won't make a difference on the final score as well.
To make a conclusion. A change most happen quickly. The how and when is still hard to say. I don't see her turning it during this AO. But if she does, she can win here.

Now she watch her match tonight and hope for the best. A win is still the most important but I REALLY want to see some improvement in her game.

The Daviator
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:16 PM
Hmmm, some thoughts.

First thing, her serve is no way as bad as Dementieva's circa '04-'06, Ana is not a double fault machine, not yet thank God :help: She served well in Zurich and Linz, the ball toss is a mess and is hurting her concentration, but again even in the Goerges match she was getting a hold of some awful tosses drifting away from her and turning them into decent serves :rolls: I just can't see how a professional can 'lose' the ability to toss a ball in a straight line though :o Having said that, in all the women's matches I've seen, there's been some toss troubles, not as bad as Ana, but still.

Next, I'm thinking about her poor run, but Ana has never been a consistent player, her best ever period was Berlin '07 - Luxembourg '07, just two bad results in that time and that was to Yan in Canada and Dani in Rosmalen, that was the only time Ana has played like a Sharapova/Davenport/Williams and was just beating all the players she should, outside of that she's had bad spells like the current one before, I mean Bondarenko/Golovin in Stuttgart/Zurich? Pironkova in Rome? The end of 2006? She always manages to play one good event every so often and luckily she had 3 brilliant ones in '08 (AO/IW/RG), but I don't know if she'll ever become consistent guys, she's just a very streaky player, I know people were talking about her play at the end of last season, but her Berlin match against Dementieva was just as bad as those matches or even worse and that was before RG, maybe it's just how Ana is.

Next, the coaching issue, Sam Smith said in commentary in Doha that Ana must be an incredibly tough player to coach, her game is so flashy which leads to errors, but if you try to reel her in a bit, you take away her strengths and she's no longer effective, and that point hit me, Sven Groenefeld is an amazing coach, one of the best and so experienced, if he can't sort out problems in her game, which seem basic to us, I don't know who can, it's just Ana's nature to play like that I guess.

Finally, as you can see from my sig :angel: she is most definitely bullshitting her way in this tournament, but she's still in it! The negativity in the 'cheering' thread has been :bolt: But she's still alive :angel: And I actually am confident she would beat Wozniacki, I keep thinking back to the first set of the match they played here last year, and Ana was just all over her and in control, Kleybanova however :help:

Let's be happy she won a GS and became #1 cos with the way she's playing now neither of those things will happen again :tape: I'm thankful she got those things done before the big slump :lol:

lilimi
Jan 20th, 2009, 07:45 PM
I'll try to be short...

1) the only tournaments Ana played well last year were Indian Wells and Roland Garros. I think she really played bad during the australian and was very lucky to be in finals.

2) before Rg, her "bad results" could be explained by the will of trying new things on the court. everything was fixed at RG.but after RG her game plan s just :help:

3) ana is too emotional, and i think she wasn't ready to be n°1. it happened too fast.

4) ana seems to want to go more at the net. she thinks the power of the serve is the more important to go to the net. but she worked so much on it that it is a joke now. well, i think she has a lot of pressure, she is aware of the criticisms, and that resulted in that awful first round.

5) i know ana is a clever player, maybe she needs to have distance from the tour, try yoga or something else to have less pressure. she must be aware that she's still young, no need to hurry. go step by step. she needs consistency. i'd rather see her losing with a controlled match than winning so ugly. BREATHE, Ana.

6) i'm sure she'll win another slam.

Reckoner
Jan 20th, 2009, 08:37 PM
This thread is a real good read, and because of all the detailed answers, I don't have much to add without making this thread redundant.

I do, however, have this to say.

I was reading an article in today's paper about Arizona Cardinals QB, Kurt Warner and how he went from Super Bowl champion and MVP to obscurity and now he's back on top again.

I know their situations are very different. Warner was 26 when he became a starter and is now 37. Obviously Ana got her start earlier and didn't have success from the get go, but I could help but think "this is probably going to be similar to Ana's career." I really think that it's going to take some big losses and dropping in rankings to get Ana to start to really focus again.

I hate to keep referring to things that aren't tennis, but this is something that puts it in perspective a bit. I am a huge music fan. I'm constantly looking for new bands and really interested in music history. Sometimes a band will shoot straight to the top and very few times can the fame last. This can be for numerous things. 1) Musical trends like all trends burn out quickly, 2) Band members have a falling out or 3) the label takes a loss/drops them.

I'd almost want to compare option 2, with the Sven situation, but I don't think that's very fair to Ana or Sven, but I do think that there must have been/still is some strain between the two of them.

This is just my two cents.

Dexter
Jan 20th, 2009, 11:07 PM
Thanks for all the replies, I just woke up so I'll read everything after Ana's match. I'm sure it will be an inspiring performance that will no doubt contribute to write down a few more new ideas here. :tape:

Dexter
Jan 21st, 2009, 04:59 AM
3) ana is too emotional, and i think she wasn't ready to be n°1. it happened too fast.It's very true. She just couldn't handle the pressure of it. I thought she would be fine even after poor Wimbledon however. But this thumb injury didn't help.
6) i'm sure she'll win another slam.I am not, but I do have hope.


She always manages to play one good event every so often and luckily she had 3 brilliant ones in '08 (AO/IW/RG), but I don't know if she'll ever become consistent guys, she's just a very streaky player, I know people were talking about her play at the end of last season, but her Berlin match against Dementieva was just as bad as those matches or even worse and that was before RG, maybe it's just how Ana is.I'm really twisted on this one. I know that so far she's been a streaky player and I'm not sure what I prefer consistency or flashes in the ban every half of the year. Ana just seems this sort of player that nobody is intimidated by, especially in the early rounds. I'm always more worried about her 1st & 2nd round matches than about SFs and finals.
As for that Berlin match it was a shocker. Actually this whole tournament Ana was a brainless ballbasher and really was lucky not to lose to Szavay. Hell, she even struggled against Amanmuradowa on clay. :tape: Her FH was sooooooo wild in the SF, it was not only missing but by how much it was missing. She was hitting either bottom of the net or the back fence.

Next, the coaching issue, Sam Smith said in commentary in Doha that Ana must be an incredibly tough player to coach, her game is so flashy which leads to errors, but if you try to reel her in a bit, you take away her strengths and she's no longer effective, and that point hit me, Sven Groenefeld is an amazing coach, one of the best and so experienced, if he can't sort out problems in her game, which seem basic to us, I don't know who can, it's just Ana's nature to play like that I guess.Good point. Ana must be a hell to train. You want to teach her a middle game, but you can kill her best qualities. It would be a total shame, because IMO this FH could possibly the most dominating shot on the Tour. But it's been misfiring so much since RG, that I've started to worry that it might disappear as a result of a total lack of confidence in it.

Let's be happy she won a GS and became #1 cos with the way she's playing now neither of those things will happen again :tape: I'm thankful she got those things done before the big slump :lol:So true! Much easier to follow Ana with the thought that in the end of the day she will go out with a GS title under her belt and a name of a former #1 unlike other players who were promising and considered miles ahead of Ana and are now where the are... Without giving names. :tape:


About Ana's behaviour. She's a girl who could be influenced easily. During a match she does exactly what Sven says. In her first years she was just herself, but later you saw her copying things from other players. Turning around just like Hantuchova to take more time. Barely saw her grunt in 2005/2006, but just had to follow the cows after that. Showing a fist is not a bad thing, but doing it after an error to get to 0-15 is totally unnecessary. I don't know what to think of it.This Hantuchova behaviour is something I like and I think does her well, I was happy to see her following this pattern. Quite many players do so.
She gave away a point to Maria in the SF too (in fact the ball was out, so she was right, but still she wasn't forced to do so). I remember people saying that she'll never make it big because she lacks the killer instinct.... What we have now: :tape:
[quote]If I compare this to the AO SF against Hantuchova. Hantuchova's ball was in after watching the challenge. Ana wanted a replay the point. "I could easily play the ball, I was right there'. Everyone could see that was totally not the case.
Then also the Dechy 'hat' at Wimbledon issue. And now also the sound of a linesman in her match against Goerges. Sound or no sound, she never could bring the ball back.
You could say Ana is right about that rule, but the Ana in her early days wouldn't do that. A true champion doesn't need it.Ana was in such frenzy in this match it was unbelievable. At that point when she argued about this point she was so pissed at her performance that I thought she would smack Alison Lang with her racket. :tape: She had a point though I thought, the point should've been replayed IMO. Anyway this drama inspired her to finally win a next game (first of the match :tape:).
As for hat-incident, yeah it was unneccessary and same in the 1R, but rules are the rules. But I fully agree it she doesn't need that to win it.
Ana has a good return game. But she can not make her living by the return game. She must have the serve working, asap. I think many things will improve once she gets this problem over with.She does, but it hardly ever works when she has an off serving day. She basically tries to hit most of 1st serves and all of 2nd serves for return winners out of outrageous positions. Of course when she's on song she can well hit 2-3 return winners per game almost at will (remember how she closed out IW final for example or matches in RG?). But lately it rather results in enabling your opponent to just hold quickly and then she's back with her serve and again she can't throw this yellow stuff straight up. Frustration, frustration, frustration.

bruce goose
Jan 21st, 2009, 05:07 AM
Thanks for all the replies, I just woke up so I'll read everything after Ana's match. I'm sure it will be an inspiring performance that will no doubt contribute to write down a few more new ideas here. :tape:First of all,good move to avoid putting this thread in GM.

I've already rambled enough in the seasonal threads,yet I'll repeat that pretty much all of you have excellent points,but I agree most with Lilimi's #3,last post on previous page...not necessarily that Ana won RG too quickly...but she didn't know what to do after she won.It's obvious that Ana wants to be loved;it's her personality...I'd say that she looked at her life after the post-RG euphoria died down in Serbia and asked herself,"Is THIS all there is:confused:?" By reliable reports,Ana has few female friends(leaving room for 'helpful' playboys to move in,a` la Brisbane),and she never even had a serious relationship until she was almost 21.This tennis-caused isolation is asynchronous with her warm persona.

It's not that Ana cares 0%;she cares more than THAT...just not enough to maintain her motivation to improve what's necessary.Can you imagine Graf,Venus,Henin,etc. having major flaws in one of her strokes...and then running off to yet another modeling shoot with only modest attention paid to correcting the weak spot?I can't even IMAGINE it.Yes,there's a part of Ana that still loves tennis,but her ACTIONS show that there's another voice whispering within her that says,"Why should I bust my tail to get back to #1 and win a Slam?I've already DONE that and it didn't bring fulfillment to my life.So what's the point?" Last year,it appeared that FV helped boost her self-esteem and allowed her to re-discover that old fire at Zurich/Linz/YEC(where she bravely fought against illness).If she can ever find a reason to KEEP that resolve,then we'll see an Ana who puts all of the Pretty Stuff on hold until she has regained her form.

gaviotabr
Jan 21st, 2009, 01:07 PM
Some more...

I watched the match in Brazil's ESPN and the commentator is a huge Ana fan. His name is Paulo Cleto, he is a tennis coach, former player and former Davis Cup captain for Brazil. I remember last AO, during the match against Garbin, he said he saw in Ana the biggest talent in woman's tennis. He added, though, that she didn't know she had all the talent nor knew what to do with it. During Rolang Garros, he would just swoon over every shot.. he was like: "That forehand! Ohh so much talent!". "Look at the slice backhand, beautiful!"... and many other examples alike. After this introduction, I'll move foward to his comments on Ana's last match. Before action started, he said that he felt her mind had wondered around everything but tennis, and that would explain her poor results in the past 6 months. He also stated that he believes she is in a very important moment of her career and that it's now that we will see what she really wants to accomplish. If she truly wants to fulfill her talent and be a great champion or if she will be happy as a good tennis player. Her choice might not be visible at this AO, but he thinks it will be clear until the end of the year. She needs to bring her head together and her focus back to tennis, find the right balance. When the match began, he was all over her ball toss.. not surprising. He also said that Ana's coaches had changed her service motion (he went all technical here, explaining it bit by bit). According to him, the toss is compromising the movement, but the movement is also compromising the toss. He said that since she changed something that was natural for her to something learned, she was still adjusting and had to think about the movement as well as the toss and the point, and that was too much. That he believes coaches should not change service motions a lot, since it's something the player has almost since his tennis birth, and the more you change it to try to improve, the more it stinks. He said that it was clear Ana was also going through a transitional phase in her game, trying to add the big variety of shots that she has into her game, and that it could take a while for her to click it all together, get used to having so much in her hands. That was clear by the ammount of times she was crashing the net, unnusually high for a woman nowadays. He thinks that will eventually pay off though, as the talent is there. He stated many times that she is incredibly talented, and should also believe more in herself and know about her talent. They cut a bit for the Dinara-Makarova match, for the end of the first set, and when they returned, he said he felt Dinara was more solid from the baseline than Ana, and hitting with more pace. That Ana still had to gain some pop and consistency in her shots to be challenging for the title. And improve her serve. He compared her toss to Dementieva's.. another commentator going that way. He didn't compare the serve though, only the toss.

I found it an interesting analisis.

rasko
Jan 21st, 2009, 07:15 PM
Movement is also a weird thing. It can change be every match. And training has nothing to do with it.


I think movement will always be an issue for her. IMHO she has serious physical disadvantages (slightly curved legs, height, generaly hard body frame, disposition for obesity). She looks somehow clumsy occasionally. Actually, because of that, I consider her the biggest overachiever in WTA.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 12:03 PM
I guess we can keep on discussing..

I'm so frustrated with Ana right now.. she has to seek help.. she needs to fix all areas of her game. There is nothing working. She is a big fighter, but you can't go far enough with only a good fighting spirit. She needs to find her game, and find her brain.

Ilikebigboobies
Jan 23rd, 2009, 12:31 PM
Ana's problem is men.

PO the guys and she'll be back to good.
They only want her for one thing. :fiery:

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 12:47 PM
Ana's problem is men.

PO the guys and she'll be back to good.
They only want her for one thing. :fiery:

It seems she alredy dished the boyfriend.. it didn't do any wonders for her game. It could have been a factor, but it's hardly the solution.

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:01 PM
Coming back home from uni took me around 1 hour and needless to say I spent 101% of this time thinking about Ana. I'm not sure I will be able to articulate all of my thoughts though. :tape:
As I already said the worst thing about this match is that she lost after coming back in the 2nd set. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? It should've been a knockout in the 3rd and Ana of 2007... hell Ana of 1988 would have done just that.
Ana should take a break from tennis and start from the scratch. She will take a major hit down the rankings this year. I'm prepared she will be out of top20 easily this year at some point. She didn't show top50 tennis this year yet.
I pray that she doesn't play Dubai. I don't FKN care about those new rules about withdrawing from major tournaments. She has a life-threatening injury after all. Total lack of brain.
For me, the best thing would be if she only came back for the clay season. It's the perfect surface to work on your game.
I wonder if she cares anymore? I think the answer is YES, otherwise she wouldn't fight, it's just in her veins.

Will comeback later with more thoughts, but boy we have one helluva a weirdo as a fave. At this point I think I will stop caring about her. I mean, I'll never ever stop supporting her (only if she kills me somehow... though, she's been close to do that already), but it's just such a pain. I feel like riding a rollercoaster upside down without safety belts.
One good thing about Ana is that she learned me not to be superstitous. Today I've finally got it. Don't laugh (I know you will though! :tape:), but I'm a weirdo when it comes to that. I have some strange habits whenever Ana plays her matches. Basically I keep doing the same things when Ana plays a tournament. For example this AO I kept wearing the same clothes during her matches, doing the same amount of workout before them and believe me or not, it ALWAYS looked like it worked. Whenever I f*cked up something she would lose... For example she lost to Venus at US Open because I didn't do push-ups the evening before. Or she lost to Dementiewa in Dubai last year because I changed my sitting position (I always keep the same one when she's in a winning position). She immediately got broken in the 2nd and proceed to lose the match when I moved from my chair. I know it's :weirdo:ed but I can't help... I mean I couldn't help. Now I can. :o

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:25 PM
:lol::lol::lol:

You made me laugh with you post Dexter.. and that's quite something, because I'm really upset with Ana today.

I'm going to emulate Brokeback mountain here.. "Ana, I just wish I knew how to quit you!" :lol:

I mean, this is such a pain.. I feel terrible everytime. And it only gets worse. Ana is probably going to have a big fall in the rankings.. but will that finish killing her and she will forever turn into this mediocre player.. or will that turn her on again? I just never know what to expect.. so I'm just going to try not to expect anything at all. There is nothing working on her game right now, nothing. And she needs to find a way to learn how to play tennis again.

I also don't know how or why Ana is completely incapable of bringing the momentum with her into the third set, to give it a push to win. It happened so many times last year.. against Pironkova, Zheng, Coin, Paszek, Petrova, Zvonareva.. It seems that she uses her energy to fight for the second set, and when she manages to take it to a third, she relaxes.. maybe she thinks to herself: "Ok.. I've done it.. now it's a normal match again". And instead of giving it a push to win taking advantage of the situation, it's like she starts the match all over again, allowing her opponent to do so too. When she won the third set against Vinci so well in Brisbane, I thought she had put this inability behind her, but this is a clear proof that she didn't.

As i've said many times now, Ana needs to sort out her head. Aknowledge her problem will be the first step. If not, I fear she will become one of those players who had so much promisse and than faded because they became headcases. She is too good for what she is doing right now. She is completely lost and conflicted inside, she has no idea of what to do.

I wonder which coach will she get, she needs someone who is a good motivator, someone who can get inside her head.

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:42 PM
:haha::haha::haha:
Now seriously,I`m so not going to watch her next matches until she changes something, I will limited myself to just reading the post on the forum
I think i had 20 heart attacks today just watching her and it`s not nice, tennis is supposed to be fun and i don`t want to die young:lol:
I don`t remember when was the last time i was relaxed watching her play
Now i`m just thinking will she toss the ball corectly,how is she moving,that FH or BH doesn`t look good :help::help:
And to think this is only the begining of the season :tape:
I hope she will pack her bags today and go somewhere to work with somebody ,everything is better than being alone just her and her hitting partner
And may I suggest to forget about playing Fed Cup ,her game is more important right now
I`m not pessimist or anything but i think we can`t expect anything from her in next 2 months and we can just pray that until RG she will have a full time coach and that she will win something bc I just can`t imagine what will pressure do to her if she comes to RG as defending champion who still didn`t won something this year and is still in a slump

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:45 PM
I'm going to emulate Brokeback mountain here.. "Ana, I just wish I knew how to quit you!" :lol:Damn, talk about bringing out something right when it's on. I actually need a solid cry and this film is perfect for that. And I've just found out it's on tomorrow evening. Can't believe that Polish TV is going to show a gay-themed movie in prime-time. :eek:
And I don't know how to quit her either. :lol:
If not, I fear she will become one of those players who had so much promisse and than faded because they became headcases.I said it before, I say again. AT LEAST SHE HAS THIS GRAND SLAM. *phew* :tape:

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:48 PM
There's ONE positive of Ana's slump. Ana's subforum will be cleaned out of fair-weather fans. Only the best guys we'll stay. :cool:

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:52 PM
Uff Jelena.. I don't even want to think about Roland Garros.

And I agree that she should just get this week, make a decision about the coach and go practice. She should also pay a visit to a sports psychologist. I hope I don't see pictures of her surfing in the beaches of Australia. :rolleyes:

Good thing is that she has basicaly nothing to defend until Indian Wells.. bad thing is that she will only be playing one tournament in february.. Or is that good? Ais.. whatever..

azdaja
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:56 PM
There's ONE positive of Ana's slump. Ana's subforum will be cleaned out of fair-weather fans. Only the best guys we'll stay. :cool:
:yeah:

hopefully the patriots will also get out :p

anyway, in her post-match interview ana said she needs and is looking for a coach, so i guess we will get our hopes up again once she finds one.

Princeza
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:58 PM
At this point I think I will stop caring about her.

No monsieur you won't!!! As much as I want to kill her today; it's not possible to quit!


I felt like I was in quite a good level. I just want to keep building on this. There is plenty more tournaments in front of me. That's a good thing about tennis.

I don't get how she can say such things. Wake up girl.

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:00 PM
At this point I wouldn't want to be Ana's coach for all money of the world. On one hand it's a tempting task, OTOH it's like restoring a house of glass that has just collapsed. You don't know where to put your hands first.

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:02 PM
No monsieur you won't!!! As much as I want to kill her today; it's not possible to quit! I didn't mean it in a negative day. I just want a bit of rest out of this shit.
Anyway, who am I kidding? :shrug: Pas possible. :p

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:08 PM
No monsieur you won't!!! As much as I want to kill her today; it's not possible to quit!



I don't get how she can say such things. Wake up girl.


I don't get it either. Sometimes I just wish Ana would say that she played like a junior and should have done better, like Serena does. :o

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:10 PM
hopefully the patriots will also get out :p
Amen.
Anyway they should all bang on Dokić's bandwagon, so it's gonne none of them will be here. YAY.
Actually I'm quite enjoying this Dokić's comeback and would like her to go one or two steps further. I was never a fan of hers, but whatever. I met her last September and wasn't impressed by her neither personally nor tennis-wise. But hey, good on her that she got it together.

Dexter
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
I don't get it either. Sometimes I just wish Ana would say that she played like a junior and should have done better, like Serena does. :oIt's really that! I wish she quitted this PC BS. :o It seems like she's learned 10 lines and she keeps on replying them changing the order at times. She's not controversial this way, but she's not frank either which is worse.

Princeza
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:17 PM
I don't get it either. Sometimes I just wish Ana would say that she played like a junior and should have done better, like Serena does. :o

:lol: I remember this. Priceless Serena :spit:

Amen.
Anyway they should all bang on Dokić's bandwagon, so it's gonne none of them will be here. YAY.
Actually I'm quite enjoying this Dokić's comeback and would like her to go one or two steps further. I was never a fan of hers, but whatever. I met her last September and wasn't impressed by her neither personally nor tennis-wise. But hey, good on her that she got it together.

I'm so glad she's back! Lucky you, you met her ;)

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:19 PM
If until now she and her team were living in denial,after this I hope and think they will have a different approach to everything
It will be interesting to see who will be her coach and how much time will she need to hire someone
Also I think that just by having a coach it will do wonders to her confidence
If JJ coach could change her head and we know how mental fragile she was(loosing matches after 5-2 lead ) I don`t see why Ana`s coach can`t help her
And may I add that my boyfriend thinks this is just a phase and that every players has some sooner or later and that she will be just fine :rolleyes::rolleyes:

bruce goose
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:34 PM
I don't get it either. Sometimes I just wish Ana would say that she played like a junior and should have done better, like Serena does. :oOne thing that makes me cringe a little bit is when people keep saying that Ana is a fighter.It IS admirable that she never quits while she's on the court...but OFF the tennis court,she is NOT a fighter right now...she just recycles b.s. excuses and runs away from her problems by denying that they exist.If she WERE a fighter internally,then she'd be dedicating herself to all of those areas where she's been weak....so why don't we see any improvement in those spots??Because Ana only cares enough to put in a couple hours on court;she's NOT committed to where she'll actually fix her bugaboos since tennis is not so special to her anymore...her actions PROVE it.All this talk about working on this or that:rolleyes:...just more press statement garbage that she scripted...I'll believe it when aye SEE it.

People wondered last year why Sven didn't find someone to strengthen Ana's mental game;he probably DID and then she shot him down when he suggested it.There are countless accounts of her whiny attitude when he was simply pushing her to practice.What's scary is that Ana is pushing away from people who've helped her(Sven,'Nando) and hanging around with douchebags.If we start seeing less of Dragana at tourneys...and an Ana who begins running around with Vaidisova and Golovin...then we'll KNOW the end is near:eek:.My only hope here is that even the cokehead Capriati found her way back...and Ana isn't THAT crazy...not yet at least...so I'm hanging on to the possibility that Ana will outgrow this:help:

azdaja
Jan 23rd, 2009, 03:02 PM
I don't get how she can say such things. Wake up girl.
reading ana's post-match interviews can often be frustrating. i don't think she ever really wants to reveal much and that's her right, but it can be painful for her loyal fans who are desperate to get a clue about her problems.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:03 PM
If until now she and her team were living in denial,after this I hope and think they will have a different approach to everything
It will be interesting to see who will be her coach and how much time will she need to hire someone
Also I think that just by having a coach it will do wonders to her confidence
If JJ coach could change her head and we know how mental fragile she was(loosing matches after 5-2 lead ) I don`t see why Ana`s coach can`t help her
And may I add that my boyfriend thinks this is just a phase and that every players has some sooner or later and that she will be just fine :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't understand how could her team and Ana herself live in denial for such a long time... She has been slumping for more than half a year now.. 3 early losses in slams.. Sometimes I wonder if this will really get them out o denial or not..

I also think that just by changing coaches, she can get some new confidence or new mindset.. but I'm not sure to which point it will actually fix her game. I guess we are going to have to wait on this one.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:05 PM
All my respects to Scott, but Ana's footwork has also been crap. She is not getting into the right position to hit her shots.. it's always awkward... Ana has never been a natural mover, so she needs to work relentlessly on her footwork to be more effective on court, and she has just been sluggish.

rasko
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:22 PM
As much as I like Ana because of her cuteness, there was always something scary about her personality as I (who doesn't know her, of course) see it .

Besides being too emotional, which is obvious, I think she is a perfectionist. That kind of people can be really hard to bear and can cause a lot of unnecessary pain to themselves and their environment. If Ana doesn't produce and get perfection, she becomes very anxious and dissatisfied with herself. That is where shyness comes from, I think.

Interviews mean nothing - that is for public. What Ana really thinks and how she really feels only Dragana (and her team, probably) may know.

Relax Ana, please. :cool:

OC521
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:25 PM
Re: SpruceGoose’s TennisForum cut and paste cross word puzzle.

Some of the comments made are elementary. It reminds me of the North American tennis tournament bus driver’s riddle that children immediately answer correctly but adults over analyze and never answer correctly.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:26 PM
And also.. I can't take out of my head the words of brazilian commentator Paulo Cleto about her serve. He said.. don't mess with the serve, it's a natural movement, if you have a good one, don't try to improve, because if you change the motion it will only get worse.. Well.. true!

The Daviator
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:32 PM
I'm sure what Ana is saying in the presser and how she actually feels are quite different, I remember she said earlier this week that after last year's final she couldn't sleep for a few days yet in her post-match interviews/press conferences at the time, she seemed like her normal positive, smiley self, so I think this loss will hurt her and she'll know that something needs to change.

She's been in Oz for ages, and she gets a 3rd round exit, that's gotta suck for the whole team.

bruce goose
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:38 PM
Re: SpruceGoose’s TennisForum cut and paste cross word puzzle.

Some of the comments made are elementary. It reminds me of the North American tennis tournament bus driver’s riddle that children immediately answer correctly but adults over analyze and never answer correctly.Well,'OC',I'm glad that you think so highly of me to single out my post:hatoff:.Your English grammar is improving but you should have placed hyphens between 'cut-and-paste' in the above context;)

I think we can all agree that Ana's attitude isn't where it should be but I'm no fair-weather fan who only stays around for the glorious victories:angel:.I hope that you and I,along with other loyal posters,will soon be able to cheer on a more successful Ana very soon:cool:

OC521
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:57 PM
Placing hyphens in a sentence regarding your post could be misconstrued as a double negative, which in math is a positive, which Ana’s online university would confirm, would lead people to think that your post is a positive piece of work; therefore, the title should read, “RE: SpruceGoose’s TennisForum cut and paste grammar cross word puzzle.

I’m not much of a fan, more of a concerned person.

I think it would be appropriate if someone of Serbia's citizenship and someone that displays Serbia's national flag start a Fed Cup thread for her fans.

bruce goose
Jan 23rd, 2009, 05:08 PM
Placing hyphens in a sentence regarding your post could be misconstrued as a double negative, which in math is a positive, which Ana’s online university would confirm, would lead people to think that your post is a positive piece of work; therefore, the title should read, “RE: SpruceGoose’s TennisForum cut and paste grammar cross word puzzle.

I’m not much of a fan, more of a concerned person.

I think it would be appropriate if someone of Serbia's citizenship and someone that displays Serbia's national flag start a Fed Cup thread for her fans.:lol:That was a nice stab at coming up with an excuse for your error....It showed some imagination;)Your sentence structure still needs some work("...would confirm,would lead..."),but it's not too bad for a non-native speaker:)....I'm sorry that those Serbia-related issues are causing you such grief.I can sympathize,in a way,as I'm no fan of Ana's affiliation with the UN.

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 05:49 PM
All my respects to Scott, but Ana's footwork has also been crap. She is not getting into the right position to hit her shots.. it's always awkward... Ana has never been a natural mover, so she needs to work relentlessly on her footwork to be more effective on court, and she has just been sluggish.

I think everybody had noticed that her movement on court is also bad
But you can blame Ana for that
Nothing is working in her game right now not even one single part
I truly believe her when she said she was fitter than ever .I was really surprised how fit she was in todays match ,she didn`t look tired in any moment, even our commentator said that
I `a hoping she will(should) find a coach before IW

-NAJ-
Jan 23rd, 2009, 06:21 PM
This is the bad period, but I am convinced that very quickly she will be back and be even better. She needs to clean some things in her head and in her life.


Such things can happen anyone it's not the end of the world. I do not understand some people in GM. They are full of hate:help:

Reckoner
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:03 PM
Well what do you expect when they like plays like Serena and Sharapova?

I can't help but laugh when their favs lose and they bitch about how everyone is attacking them for no reason. I'd like to think us Ana fans don't provoke anything so I see it as being defensive.

I'm trying to stay positive but it's hard. Right now my three players that I follow are out and its not even the R16 yet. It seemed everytime Ana got something going she fell apart. Even when she was playing "good" in the second set, it still wasn't up to par.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:09 PM
This is the bad period, but I am convinced that very quickly she will be back and be even better. She needs to clean some things in her head and in her life.


I always have that hope and believe. The talent is there.
But I'm so mad right now that I better can be away from here now. I can't find even 1 positive thing about 2009.

Horizon
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:18 PM
Guys, seriously, do you think Ana will ever be the same player she was in Peak 2008? :sad:

I used to think it a certainty, but will it ever click back?

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:27 PM
Guys, seriously, do you think Ana will ever be the same player she was in Peak 2008? :sad:

I used to think it a certainty, but will it ever click back?

I hope she does.. otherwise it would be such a huge waste of talent.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:37 PM
I just saw the sports news round table in ESPN Brasil, and they were talking about Ana. Just saw the end of it, but they were saying how they believe she is in some sort of crossroad in her career. That it's clear that she is a profesional and serious tennis player as she was in Australia early to prepare, but that the issue is within herself. She needs to dig deep and see what she really wants for herself and from herself. That the talent is there, she just needs to decide for herself what she really wants.

-NAJ-
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:48 PM
Be positive please. Ana is young girl and she didn't reach her full potencial.
I am concerned but I know that she has the right people around her who will help her to return to the right way. Right people = her family

very soon she will find a good coach and we will see how things stand

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 07:53 PM
From Matt Cronin:

Give credit to Ivanovic for battling in her marathon loss to Kleybanova, but the 2008 AO finalist’s level isn’t where it should be point by point. She’s capable of short spurts of spectacular play, but she’s not trusting her shots, which is why Kleybanova confidently took it to her time and time again.
Ivanovic tried to put on a positive face when she came into press, but it looked like she had been crying. She has very difficult road ahead of her and it sounds like she’s going to hire a new coach soon. Her serve needs a lot of work, as does, believe it or not, her greatest weapon, her forehand, which is technically breaking down. It’s been a slow downhill slide since her Roland Garros triumph and it’s going to take some time before she picks herself back up again.


It did look like she had been crying from the pics. I'm afraid all these extremely disappointing losses can take a tool on her and not a positive one.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:01 PM
From Ravi Ubha at ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/columns/story?columnist=ubha_ravi&id=3843208

Sven Groeneveld insists he's still by Ana Ivanovic's side.

Ana Ivanovic is still trying to regroup from her ballyhooed struggles since winning the French open last year. The prolific Dutchman serves as a roving coach for Adidas, Ivanovic's sponsor, and was ever-present as the Serb won her maiden major at the French Open last year. When he failed to show at the Brisbane International this month, where Ivanovic attended, rumors of a split surfaced. Groeneveld's explanation?


"I didn't do the preseason, and because of that people I guess started to … they made up their own stories," he said. "Obviously, if you don't do preseason, you can't just jump in. You have to take it slowly. We're building into it again and we've increased our time together."



That said, Groeneveld hasn't attended either of Ivanovic's two matches this week.



As Ivanovic dispatched Italian qualifier Alberta Brianti in straight sets Wednesday, Groeneveld split time between two other Adidas-contracted pros, Indian Sania Mirza and one of the rising stars of the women's game, Danish teen Caroline Wozniacki.



"There's no problem whatsoever between me and Ana," he said. "Obviously, we've been together for so many years now. I haven't been able to attend all the matches because Sania played today at the same time. That situation has also been adjusted because Caroline has been added."



Ivanovic went AWOL post-Roland Garros, losing in the third round at Wimbledon to tenacious Zheng Jie of China and in the second round at the U.S. Open as the top seed to, uh, French journeywoman Julie Coin. A right thumb injury exacerbated her summer woes. Ivanovic didn't entirely convince in a first-round win over German Julia Goerges on Monday, and few expect her to increase her Grand Slam tally in the next 10 days.



"We've basically just pointed out that this is part of her, I wouldn't say routine, but part of her career at the moment that we're trying to stabilize more," Groeneveld said. "The struggle is, the injury did more damage than ever anticipated. It changed her technique, and thus more errors came, and therefore a loss of confidence. But if you look at the first match, then the second, you see the improvement. That's what I'm looking for."



After casting aside Brianti rather comfortably, 6-3, 6-2, Ivanovic figures to get a sterner test in the third round against big-serving Russian Alisa Kleybanova.



As I've said here before, Ana changed her grip after the injury. And her forehand does seem more loopy than before, less penetrating and obviously a lot more erractic. This injury was a big misfortune.. she could have gone without it, as it has obviously affected not only her technique and game but also her head. It's going to take a while for her to sort out her new technique, trust her shots again and figure out her own head. :sad:

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:04 PM
Forehand is definitely not working,she hits him with less power and i don`t know but it`s strange to me that she doesn`t use forehand to dictate the point :help:
She hit even today same very good forehands but not the once which are supposed to open the court
Maybe it`s just her confidence but I also think its bc she didn`t have preparation with coach

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:20 PM
Forehand is definitely not working,she hits him with less power and i don`t know but it`s strange to me that she doesn`t use forehand to dictate the point :help:
She hit even today same very good forehands but not the once which are supposed to open the court
Maybe it`s just her confidence but I also think its bc she didn`t have preparation with coach

I don't think we can put it all to the coach situation. Sure, Ana needs a coach ASAP. I hope she gets one like.. yesterday.. :lol: but still, there is more to it.

Sure, it's clear she has no trust, no confidence at all in her shots, she doesn't go for it like she used to. But this thing with the grip worries me. I had to change grips once, and for a long time my shots were pure crap. And really, they were never the same as before.. With a different grip, the ball touches the racquet at a different position, creating a different effect. I used to hit very flat, now if I want to hit flat I have to do some major movement change, because my grip gets me to hit with a lot of spin. She might just have to think this through.. I don't know..

And I still don't get how she didn't make Kleybanova move around more... where is the strategy?

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:30 PM
No strategy at all
But i do remember backhand exchange when she end up loosing points
Strategy is very simple at least for this girl you hit a good serve than a good one or two forehands and come to the net
You finish your game and then you do what ever you want on her serve
I just read this not very promising
"The struggle is, the injury did more damage than ever anticipated. It changed her technique, and thus more errors came, and therefore a loss of confidence. But if you look at the first match, then the second, you see the improvement. That's what I'm looking for.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/columns/story?columnist=ubha_ravi&id=3843208
Is he saying she is hitting FH in a totally different way now

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:37 PM
No strategy at all
But i do remember backhand exchange when she end up loosing points
Strategy is very simple at least for this girl you hit a good serve than a good one or two forehands and come to the net
You finish your game and then you do what ever you want on her serve
I just read this not very promising
"The struggle is, the injury did more damage than ever anticipated. It changed her technique, and thus more errors came, and therefore a loss of confidence. But if you look at the first match, then the second, you see the improvement. That's what I'm looking for.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/columns/story?columnist=ubha_ravi&id=3843208

Yes.. this is what I'm talking about.. That's pretty serious..

And about the strategy.. Kleybanova was tiring at the end of the second set, Ana should have just tried to move her, make her run a lot... drop shots, lobs, anges, slices. She might have lost a point or 2, but the girl would have suffered more fitness wise, and might have made more mistakes later on.

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 08:49 PM
Her lack of strategy she has always compensated with her FH,she would jutt hit 2-3 FH and that would close the deal
But what now???
If she is hitting her FH not so much BH in a different way that`s huge :eek::eek:
Ana without FH and her serve :help::help::tape:

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:02 PM
Her lack of strategy she has always compensated with her FH,she would jutt hit 2-3 FH and that would close the deal
But what now???
If she is hitting her FH not so much BH in a different way that`s huge :eek::eek:
Ana without FH and her serve :help::help::tape:

Yes.. but you know.. it's not like she doesn't have any other shot. She can have a very effective backhand slice.. she can drop shot well.. did she do any of it? Nope..

Ana needs to learn how to compensate her newfound weaknessess until she sorts it out. Just use her brain a bit. I mean, how hard could have been just to think: "I should move this girl around, she is not the fittest player". It was on her face.. all my respects to Kleybanova, but she is overweight.

Then again, I don't know what I'm talking about.. Ana should have moved Davenport around in that Miami match (a time she was actually playing well) and just couldn't. Kept hitting directly at her.

I hope Ana's new coach can dissect her brain and put some point construction thoughts in it. If I were Ana's coach I would write a pattern to her:

1 - Agile player: Hit the corners a finish up at the net.

2 - Big hitting slow player: Move her around with some variety of shots, until you have an open court. Hit angles.

3 - Player with lots os variation: Try to rally more until you have an oppening to attack. Don't crash the net as often as in other matches, as you can get passed and lobbed easily.
.
.
.
.

She should be able to identify the player by looking at them, right?

nelsondan
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:15 PM
in 2007---how much were her tennis earnings--and how much were her commercial endorsement earnings?

in 2008---same question.

Any chance it has all affected or distracted her in any way?

Did the dress make her look slightly out of shape--or did she choose that dress because she is slightly out of shape?

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:19 PM
She should definitely have some tactics before stepping on court
There for you have coach and he tells you what to do how to play against some player if you don`t know
I watched her and JJ interview for our television after 2 round and i was shocked when JJ said she didn`t know anything about her opponent ,she said she didn`t even know how she looks :eek:
Honestly today Ana was the same she didn`t know what`s her opponent best weapon FH or BH,how she serves... and thats why she needs a coach

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:24 PM
in 2007---how much were her tennis earnings--and how much were her commercial endorsement earnings?

in 2008---same question.

Any chance it has all affected or distracted her in any way?

Did the dress make her look slightly out of shape--or did she choose that dress because she is slightly out of shape?

If only things were that simple :help:
She is in great shape go and see her practice pictures ,that dress is just horrible

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:27 PM
She should definitely have some tactics before stepping on court
There for you have coach and he tells you what to do how to play against some player if you don`t know
I watched her and JJ interview for our television after 2 round and i was shocked when JJ said she didn`t know anything about her opponent ,she said she didn`t even know how she looks :eek:
Honestly today Ana was the same she didn`t know what`s her opponent best weapon FH or BH,how she serves... and thats why she needs a coach

Sure, she needs a coach.. a good one.

I just don't know to which point getting a new coach will be the miracle she needs to overcome all this. She needs one ASAP and she will get one, I'm sure.. she has to learn how to play tennis again. Get back to basics. But I just don't know if it's enough. I think Ana has to dig deep inside herself to bring back old Ana too.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 09:29 PM
If only things were that simple :help:
She is in great shape go and see her practice pictures ,that dress is just horrible

Agreed. I wish things were going wrong only because of distractions.. she could just get rid of them easily, focus and regain her form. The hole is a lot deeper.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:09 PM
I was wondering..

What happened to Ana that she played decent tennis in Zurich and Linz? She was even serving well..

MarieC
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:28 PM
I was wondering..

What happened to Ana that she played decent tennis in Zurich and Linz? She was even serving well..

That's what has me puzzled too. She had two positive tournaments post-injury at the end of the season, with no problems like she's having now with the serve, and forehand. Then she comes back from the off season in Brisbane with a wonky ball toss and disjointed game. What happened???

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:30 PM
I was wondering..

What happened to Ana that she played decent tennis in Zurich and Linz? She was even serving well..
In Linz and Zurich i thought she was coming where she belongs
About bad playy in Brisbane and AO
It probably has to do with the fact that she had to defend her points from last year AO final and i don`t want to be boring :lol: but being without a coach in of season preparation didn`t help her either

bruce goose
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:34 PM
I was wondering..

What happened to Ana that she played decent tennis in Zurich and Linz? She was even serving well..The Verdasco Self-Esteem & Confidence Boost happened...it's over now:sad:

MarieC
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:38 PM
The no coach in the off-season definitely has played a part. Still how did she forget how to properly toss a ball from October to January?

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:41 PM
I was wondering..

What happened to Ana that she played decent tennis in Zurich and Linz? She was even serving well..

Cause I was in Zurich and tried to be in Linz as well?

I don't understand a thing about this girl.
If you ask me at the end of her career who Ana is. Then I can probably only answer that she's a tennisplayer.

She played WTA in 2005 and improved every year. Now it's crap for months. It wasn't luck that she came that far. She's just really talented. Then why the hell can't see even get close to that level?
I don't want to hear a thing about pressure. You can use that excuse a few times but enough is enough!

That she changed her grip can cause a problem. I don't know if she really had to do it. But if so, then I can understand it needs some time.
Is that the problem of bad results?
What I see when I see her play is:
1. A balltoss of a 3 year old.
2. Gameplan of a first time chess player.
3. A really inconsistent movement. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

None of this has something to do with a change of grip.
So I don't have a clue what happend after RG.
Yes, she had some injuries, she had some illness and being nr 1 can be different for you. But this kind of play for such a long time just can't be accepted.
Especially in Linz she said that she played better and better and finally found the form again.
Then you at least can expect she learned something from all the months before.
But probably she didn't learned a thing about it, cause it's even worse than before.

gaviotabr: I don't always agree with you, but since I'm a man I don't understand women anyway. So you probably have a better view of it.
Maybe it's better that I don't care about her now. But since it can make me so mad and frustrated, it's probably the other side of the story.

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 10:55 PM
Pressure always plays big part in her game
She lost to Pironkova in Rome just bc she heard Justine was leaving tennis and she could become #1
So how can you tell that the nervous girl from Rome will be the calm,focused girl at RG,two totally different persons
This being said i wouldn`t be surprised if she plays much better in Dubai
Her next coach will have to teach her how to deal with pressure and self confidence much better

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:04 PM
Pressure always plays big part in her game
She lost to Pironkova in Rome just bc she heard Justine was leaving tennis and she could become #1
So how can you tell that the nervous girl from Rome will be the calm,focused girl at RG,two totally different persons
This being said i wouldn`t be surprised if she plays much better in Dubai
Her next coach will have to teach her how to deal with pressure and self confidence much better

That's just what she says, that doesn't make it true.
In all the interviews she mostly says the same things.
You also believe that she has a TOUGH opponent every match?
Of course there's always a kind of pressure. But she's a pro and played many many matches on the highest level.
You can't have the same excuse over and over again.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:22 PM
I guess the off season had the opposite effect than it should.. she regressed in her game instead of improving. Practising without a real tennis coach she miht have acquired some wrong movements out of repeating them without correcting the error. Melle is still only a hitting partner, and Scott is a fitness coach, they just couldn't be giving Ana proper technical advice. By the way, there were a couple of vídeos from one of Ana's practice sessions before AO, and I thought she was hitting the ball short (as in the matches), but also Melle was hitting balls around the service line.. no deep balls at all. I thought at the time that Ana needed him to hit deep balls to her so she could get used to it. I don't know if that was a drill though.

And the ball toss.. that's quite unexplainable. She has been tossing the ball for 15 years now.. she must have learned it. I mean, it was never perfect, but she is really struggling lately, and it can't be related to the injury.

I also think that people are overestimating the effect of pressure on Ana. Sure, it must have paid a price in some moment, but I don't think it's the cause by any means. This whole talk just might get to Ana's head and make her afraid of pressure. Truth is she hasn't been able to play properly nor keep her intensity up for an entire match for a long strech of time, with an unexplainable stop for 2 good tournaments. It's all in her head, if she can just turn it on...

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:24 PM
That's just what she says, that doesn't make it true.
In all the interviews she mostly says the same things.
You also believe that she has a TOUGH opponent every match?
Of course there's always a kind of pressure. But she's a pro and played many many matches on the highest level.
You can't have the same excuse over and over again.

Yes i believe Vinci,Coin,Zheng Kleybanova...are all great players:help::help:
As I said before she had an easy draw until 4R ,she should have won these matches by 6-1 6-2
I`m not talking about the pressure when she is playing someone on the court like RG final, Venus in Zurich
Her team didn`t tell her she could be #1 after SF in RG for obvious reasons
I`m talking about that kind of pressure,that comes from outside or she herself makes it

nelsondan
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:32 PM
I think she misses the competition with Maria. If Maria starts playing again, it could sharpen her focus.

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:33 PM
Yes i believe Vinci,Coin,Zheng Kleybanova...are all great players:help::help:
As I said before she had an easy draw until 4R ,she should have won these matches by 6-1 6-2


:lol::tape:

Had Ana taken that first set when she served for it, she would have won the match. Lose that game with a double fault on BP.. :help: Kleybanova got confident after Ana handed her those 4 games in a row to win the first set.

But it was like against Zheng in China Open. Ana served for the 1st set twice! :help::tape:

Where is her mental strengh, her ability to close out games, sets, matches? Are all these losses draining Ana? Not only her confidence (which is clear it is going away), but also her play?

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:35 PM
Just what i wanted to say gaviota ,Melle and Scot cant give her proper technical advice
In tennis everything is well related,and if you ruin one thing the other parts starts to fall
It`s not for nothing that all WTA and ATP top players have a full time coach

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:35 PM
I think she misses the competition with Maria. If Maria starts playing again, it could sharpen her focus.

They are attached to the hip.. when Maria comes back, Ana will start to play well again.. :lol:

gaviotabr
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:41 PM
Just what i wanted to say gaviota ,Melle and Scot cant give her proper technical advice
In tennis everything is well related,and if you ruin one thing the other parts starts to fall
It`s not for nothing that all WTA and ATP top players have a full time coach

Well then.. by that logic, the more time Ana takes to get a full time coach, the harder it will be to fix her game. And there's a lot to be fixed. I wouldn't wait until IW. She has a title to defend there.. so not likely, but still.. and should not embarass herself too much. To avoid that she needs to be working on her game with a proper coach for quite a while come march.

Fidello
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:45 PM
I think she misses the competition with Maria. If Maria starts playing again, it could sharpen her focus.Come back Mariaaaa

jelenacg
Jan 23rd, 2009, 11:58 PM
Well who knows ,but I`m sure she needs full time coach and that he can give more consistency,diversity to her game and make wanders to her self confidence
She couldn`t serve for the set in those matches bc she simply didn`t play her game she was the one defending ,and when it came to her to play and attack she couldn`t do it
I hope this match was her last wake up call and i think she understood that bc her interview was a little bit different than those before /or maybe i`m just being delusional

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Well who knows ,but I`m sure she needs full time coach and that he can give more consistency,diversity to her game and make wanders to her self confidence
She couldn`t serve for the set in those matches bc she simply didn`t play her game she was the one defending ,and when it came to her to play and attack she couldn`t do it
I hope this match was her last wake up call and i think she understood that bc her interview was a little bit different than those before /or maybe i`m just being delusional

How was the interview any different?

jelenacg
Jan 24th, 2009, 12:21 AM
I don`t know,after i read it it just seamed different to me
Maybe bc it`s her third early exit in a row and she just don`t have any excuses to give any more
How about this match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFqsQ9vyacQ
This is what she is missing in important moments of the matches like against Zheng,Kleybanova. .She doesn`t go for her shots anymore she was just like JJ in that match waiting for her opponent to make a mistake and just defending to much

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 12:30 AM
I don`t know,after i read it it just seamed different to me
Maybe bc it`s her third early exit in a row and she just don`t have any excuses to give any more
How about this match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFqsQ9vyacQ
This is what she is missing in important moments of the matches like against Zheng,Kleybanova. .She doesn`t go for her shots anymore she was just like JJ in that match waiting for her opponent to make a mistake and just defending to much

This match is awesome. And yes.. Ana used to be so fearless.. but back then she trusted her shots.. now she doesn't. She is too afraid to miss, and well.. she is already missing a lot playing safer...

And about the important points, Ana just hasn't been able to lift her level for them. I don't remember when or who, but a tennis critic once said in an article that the most important characteristic of a top player was lift his/her level on the crucial moments of the match. Ana certainly used to do that.. this match is an example, the RG semi too. But now.. :help:

jelenacg
Jan 24th, 2009, 12:47 AM
How can she trust her shots now when she is barely using them :help:
I must admit that i would like more if she was missing them but still trying than this stupid defensive player
She can`t lift her game level in crucial moments bc she isn`t playing her game ,she is defending in those moments
Until she decides to play her game we will have these kind of looses

TeamCaro
Jan 24th, 2009, 04:30 AM
So what's her ranking going to be after this? She loses quite a few ranking points after this. She could be around 7th-8th im guessing.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Jan 24th, 2009, 04:49 AM
So what's her ranking going to be after this? She loses quite a few ranking points after this. She could be around 7th-8th im guessing.

7th at the moment.
Sveta needs a QF. Petrova needs to win the whole thing.
So probably 8th.
Her ranking wasn't that low since winning Berlin :tape:

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 09:25 AM
So what's her ranking going to be after this? She loses quite a few ranking points after this. She could be around 7th-8th im guessing.

Ana has 6732. She is losing 1400 and gaining 160. So she will get 5492.

Sveta has 5190, with a 3rd round from last year. So 5010, plus this year's result. If she reaches the quarters, she would get 500 points, with a total of 5510. She currently has 5290, with the 4th round.

But still.. 7 or 8.. doesn't matter.. she is in a free fall. If she doesn't right the ship in time for IW-Miami, she is going to be out of the top 10 either right before or right after RG.

Ana is lucky that the girls that are 9-12 are not doing so well at this tournament either. Except Petrova, who faces a tough 4th round match, they are all gone. So she is likely to keep about 1500 points of diference to the number 10.

Ana has about 200 points to defend in february and 1000 in IW and Miami. Then nothing until may, when she has 390 points to defend from the Berlin semi. That will come up around may 12. That's a total of 1590.

Ana's closest competitors for the top 10 are Petrova, Radwanska, Wozniacki, Pennetta, Azarenka and Cornet. I'm not sure about all they have to defend.. I think Petrova and Wozniacki don't have much... Radwanska has 390 from the Doha semis and quarters in IW. Pennetta is going to play the clay tournaments in south america, and she won those events last year. Cornet was also in the fina of Acapulco, and has quite some points to defend during clay season. I have no idea about Azarenka.

So now we have an overall view of how things look for Ana to stay in the top 10. Of course, if she tanks RG, she will fall to 15-20. If she somehow manages to keep herself in the top 10 after RG, than she is safe, since she has less than anyone (but Sharapova) to defend in the second half of the year.

bruce goose
Jan 24th, 2009, 09:43 AM
Doesn't Sveta need a semi?

Ana has 6732. She is losing 1400 and gaining 180. So she will get 5512.

Sveta has 5190, with a 3rd round from last year. So 5010, plus this year's result. If she reaches the quarters, she would get 500 points, with a total of 5510. Still behind Ana. She needs a semi I guess.

But still.. 7 or 8.. doesn't matter.. she is in a free fall. If she doesn't right the ship in time for IW-Miami, she is going to be out of the top 10 either right before or right after RG.

Ana is lucky that the girls that are 9-12 are not doing so well at this tournament either. Except Petrova, who faces a tough 4th round match, they are all gone. So she is likely to keep about 1500 points of diference to the number 10.

Ana has about 200 points to defend in february and 1000 in IW and Miami. Then nothing until may, when she has 390 points to defend from the Berlin semi. That will come up around may 12. That's a total of 1590.

Ana's closest competitors for the top 10 are Petrova, Radwanska, Wozniacki, Pennetta, Azarenka and Cornet. I'm not sure about all they have to defend.. I think Petrova and Wozniacki don't have much... Radwanska has 390 from the Doha semis and quarters in IW. Pennetta is going to play the clay tournaments in south america, and she won those events last year. Cornet was also in the fina of Acapulco, and has quite some points to defend during clay season. I have no idea about Azarenka.

So now we have an overall view of how things look for Ana to stay in the top 10. Of course, if she tanks RG, she will fall to 15-20. If she somehow manages to keep herself in the top 10 after RG, than she is safe, since she has less than anyone (but Sharapova) to defend in the second half of the year.Previously,you and some others made the good points that her ranking mattered since it would affect her QF matchups in Slam tournaments...and you didn't want her to do poorly there.......but isn't it irrelevant at this stage?Realistically,Ana can't even get far enough in draws to even MEET the Serenas,Dementievas,etc.,so does her ranking even matter now:confused:

Currently,I'm just praying,in the figurative sense,that Ana isn't doubting if she even wants to keep playing tennis anymore:eek:.If she HAS gotten there,then I hope she'll take a sabbatical,maybe 6 months,instead of quitting outright:sad:

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 09:51 AM
Previously,you and some others made the good points that her ranking mattered since it would affect her QF matchups in Slam tournaments...and you didn't want her to do poorly there.......but isn't it irrelevant at this stage?Realistically,Ana can't even get far enough in draws to even MEET the Serenas,Dementievas,etc.,so does her ranking even matter now:confused:

Currently,I'm just praying,in the figurative sense,that Ana isn't doubting if she even wants to keep playing tennis anymore:eek:.If she HAS gotten there,then I hope she'll take a sabbatical,maybe 6 months,instead of quitting outright:sad:

Ana is not gonna quit Bruce.

And yes.. her rankings are not going to matter until she gets her game back. Still.. it's sad to see such a slide. And I was just writting an overview of it, since the topic was brought up.

TeamCaro
Jan 24th, 2009, 11:18 AM
I hope Ana has a good RG. I don't even want to think about her ranking if she loses early there :help:

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Have fun surfing in Australia Ana.. :o

Her latest blog:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24958982-3162,00.html

OC521
Jan 24th, 2009, 01:57 PM
Thank you for the URL. I'm posting the article since Australian online publications don't last forever.


Out, but excited about future
Article from: Sunday Herald

Ana Ivanovic

January 25, 2009 12:00am

IT'S been a very exciting first week with many great matches and storylines to follow. Unfortunately, I became one of them on Friday night.

I didn't find anything close to my best tennis here, but I tried my hardest and I cannot do more than that.

Sometimes your game just isn't there. I'm going to take a few days off, maybe have a holiday somewhere in Australia, think about what went wrong and how I can improve.

Top of my list of priorities is appointing a new full-time coach. I'm excited about working with someone with new ideas and I'm still confident of achieving some good results this year.

That's the great thing about tennis - there is always another tournament just around the corner.

Often when a top seed loses, reporters' questions focus on their performance and people forget about the great play of the victor.

As I said, I didn't play well on Friday, but Alisa Kleybanova deserves great credit for her performance.

She played some unbelievable shots and was very consistent. The better player on the day won.

It was the same thing with the Venus Williams match. It was surprising that such a great champion lost in the second round, but you have to look at how well her opponent played.

Carla Suarez Navarros' victory proves there are no easy matches at grand slams. Every match is tough and there are always several upsets during the early rounds.

I've been watching some matches. Usually I don't watch much tennis and when I do it is men's tennis because I like to see what I can learn from the guys.

But I've seen some women's matches, too, including Jelena Dokic's first two matches.

Jelena has been great to watch. I admit I cried during her interview after her first round match. She has been through so much and I'm happy for her.

I know how important it is to have a supportive team around you and at the core of that is your family.

I can safely say I wouldn't be here without the kind support and understanding of my family. They never once pushed me, in fact, I pushed them!

I loved to hit the ball and compete in kids' tournaments at the weekends. My family was always extremely supportive.

I never stopped believing I would win the match against Kleybanova, which makes it tougher to come to terms with.

Ana Ivanovic is ranked No.5 on the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour.

A donation to UNICEF has been made for this column.

soul
Jan 24th, 2009, 02:25 PM
I think ANA has to focus on tennis more than off court activites and immediately has to have a coach.AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, she should have a coach and start a hard tarinning programme that she couldnt have off season with Sven.Last year she was with Sven and got good results but now as we see without a coach she could do nothing.It doesnt work.and also her private life I think affected her at this tournamnet.She just a girl and it is normal to be a little fragile ,confused feelings.
I m sure she will come back andwill be better than ever but without a coach it is impossible

bruce goose
Jan 24th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Ana is not gonna quit Bruce.

And yes.. her rankings are not going to matter until she gets her game back. Still.. it's sad to see such a slide. And I was just writting an overview of it, since the topic was brought up.Unlike the previous night when Ana played,I actually got some good sleep,Izzy.(gracias a` Dios:worship:)Having thought about it,Ana's ranking MIGHT make a difference in the sense that she'll slip out of the top 8.When she plays a big tourney like Dubai,the event's organizers might try to arrange an attractive FIRST-round match between Ana and one of the elites.We both know how Ana has been a slow starter at times.Indeed,the tourney's leaders could rightly figure,"Our only shot at having an Ana-Serena matchup is if we pair them up right away(otherwise Ana won't advance far enough for this to happen)." Those possible 1st-round blowouts vs. Dinara,Serena,Elena,etc. could be humiliating for her:unsure::unsure:...just one MORE reason for coaching help ASAP

Mixo
Jan 24th, 2009, 04:21 PM
What will be her next tourney and when? THANK YOU!

luv_sweetAna
Jan 24th, 2009, 06:05 PM
What will be her next tourney and when? THANK YOU!

Fed Cup in Belgrade against Japan, February 7th.

gaviotabr
Jan 24th, 2009, 07:56 PM
What will be her next tourney and when? THANK YOU!

Ana has Fed Cup, February 7. And then Dubai one week after that.

We don't know more of her scheadule, but I guess she will have Indian Wells, Miami, Stuttgart, Madrid, Rome and RG for the first half of the year.

Notorious
Jan 25th, 2009, 12:33 AM
I just remembered, it's been ages since I saw one of Ana's characteristic return winners :sad:

cowking
Jan 25th, 2009, 03:37 AM
A couple things:

1) No confidence.
2) Cannot dominate opponents anymore, she has to step up and not be so afraid.
3) Really stupid choices sometimes, especially her decisions to go to the net.
4) Attitude in general.
5) Serve.

Well, actually, that's a lot of things. I don't know how long it'll take for her to get better anymore.

Princeza
Jan 26th, 2009, 02:52 PM
Interviews mean nothing - that is for public. What Ana really thinks and how she really feels only Dragana (and her team, probably) may know.



There's a gap between revealing the truth and making a fool of yourself.
Some things she said were just ridiculous and there's a big difference with other usual press conferences of WS for example.
Without revealing everything about their losses they can analyze them and be honest. I'm not questionning Ana's honesty, just saying that the "I think I played well/I need a coach" etc... we all heard that, no need to repeat.
I know some players don't want to say what's wrong because they fear opponents can take advantage of it, but when you look closer, the strongest players say what's on their mind, regardless of others.

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 07:41 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Ana's main problem.. or the answer to the "WTF is wrong with Ana?" question is: DENIAL.

The latest news in Ana's web is an ode to Ana's mental toughness. Yes, that is right. Completely surreal. That Ana has an enourmous fighting spirit and almost never goes out easily and without putting up a fight is an absolute and clear truth. But, nowadays, she doesn't have the mental toughness to pull out those wins, merely going out with a fight. But it doesn't make any practical difference if she loses in 2 or 3 sets, with or without a fight.. it's a loss in the same way. Someone who has lost 8 of her last 12 3 set matches, regularly melting in the third set, can not be bragging about mental toughness. If she was mentally tough she would have pulled out most of these tough matches, and got out of them with more confidence and a win. Instead, she has left with embarrasing losses. If she really thinks that mental toughness is something that she masters and doesn't have to work on, then I'm afraid we are in for a long long season. :sad: The worst thing is to actually think that her team shares that belief.. that Ana may not see it I can understand.. but her team has also been a disappointment for me, as they also seem to be in denial.

MarieC
Feb 1st, 2009, 08:41 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Ana's main problem.. or the answer to the "WTF is wrong with Ana?" question is: DENIAL.

The latest news in Ana's web is an ode to Ana's mental toughness. Yes, that is right. Completely surreal. That Ana has an enourmous fighting spirit and almost never goes out easily and without putting up a fight is an absolute and clear truth. But, nowadays, she doesn't have the mental toughness to pull out those wins, merely going out with a fight. But it doesn't make any practical difference if she loses in 2 or 3 sets, with or without a fight.. it's a loss in the same way. Someone who has lost 8 of her last 12 3 set matches, regularly melting in the third set, can not be bragging about mental toughness. If she was mentally tough she would have pulled out most of these tough matches, and got out of them with more confidence and a win. Instead, she has left with embarrasing losses. If she really thinks that mental toughness is something that she masters and doesn't have to work on, then I'm afraid we are in for a long long season. :sad: The worst thing is to actually think that her team shares that belief.. that Ana may not see it I can understand.. but her team has also been a disappointment for me, as they also seem to be in denial.

I can't believe that the latest entry on her website is about her mental toughness. It's probably her biggest problem right now.

They point out the matches where she has pulled back to win it, but there's equally as many matches in which her "mental toughness" has let her down, and just in the past year alone. That entry is absurd! If they think all of the problems are based on technique and "lack of match play", then you're right, there's some major denial going on there.

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 08:55 PM
I can't believe that the latest entry on her website is about her mental toughness. It's probably her biggest problem right now.

They point out the matches where she has pulled back to win it, but there's equally as many matches in which her "mental toughness" has let her down, and just in the past year alone. That entry is absurd! If they think all of the problems are based on technique and "lack of match play", then you're right, there's some major denial going on there.

I'm still in awe about the entry. But thinking about it, I guess this is the reason this slump is taking so long to go away. When you don't face your real issue and make excuses or blame the problem in other things, you can't expect to overcome the hard times. The first step to getting out of this slump for Ana should be acknowledge her shortcomings when it comes to mental toughness and concentration, work directly on it to improve. If she and her team keeps in denial about something that is clear as water, than we can't really expect her to improve.

If Ana was tough enough, she wouldn't have lost to Coin at the Us Open, blowing 5 BPs chances in the third set, or to Cibulkova in Moscow wasting 2 MPs... just to mention 2 obvious examples. And with those wins, she wouldn't have lost so much faith and confidence in her strokes and in her game, leading to unsure performances. That is one of her main problems, and they are totally going the opposite way.

As I said, I can understand that Ana doesn't see it.. it's hard for her. But her team, seeing it from the outside, should have been able to recognise the problem a long time ago. That they are writing odes to her mental toughness after all that has happened in the past 7 months is just absurd and worrisome. I sometimes feel like her team has made nothing but wrong decisions for such a long time now, that I just have no words.. I hate to see so much talent being wasted.

jelenacg
Feb 1st, 2009, 09:03 PM
I just saw it :haha::haha::haha:
Mental toughness :lol: after having that kind of `second part of the season` :bolt::bolt:
I wouldn`t mind that article if it was posted before Wimbledon but now,they are really :smash::smash::smash:
But this have nothing to do with her or her team this is just pr crap at least i hope so

bruce goose
Feb 1st, 2009, 09:21 PM
I'm still in awe about the entry. But thinking about it, I guess this is the reason this slump is taking so long to go away. When you don't face your real issue and make excuses or blame the problem in other things, you can't expect to overcome the hard times. The first step to getting out of this slump for Ana should be acknowledge her shortcomings when it comes to mental toughness and concentration, work directly on it to improve. If she and her team keeps in denial about something that is clear as water, than we can't really expect her to improve.

If Ana was tough enough, she wouldn't have lost to Coin at the Us Open, blowing 5 BPs chances in the third set, or to Cibulkova in Moscow wasting 2 MPs... just to mention 2 obvious examples. And with those wins, she wouldn't have lost so much faith and confidence in her strokes and in her game, leading to unsure performances. That is one of her main problems, and they are totally going the opposite way.

As I said, I can understand that Ana doesn't see it.. it's hard for her. But her team, seeing it from the outside, should have been able to recognise the problem a long time ago. That they are writing odes to her mental toughness after all that has happened in the past 7 months is just absurd and worrisome. I sometimes feel like her team has made nothing but wrong decisions for such a long time now, that I just have no words.. I hate to see so much talent being wasted.Quite simply...excellent post^^^

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 09:42 PM
I just saw it :haha::haha::haha:
Mental toughness :lol: after having that kind of `second part of the season` :bolt::bolt:
I wouldn`t mind that article if it was posted before Wimbledon but now,they are really :smash::smash::smash:
But this have nothing to do with her or her team this is just pr crap at least i hope so

The thing is.. I don't think this is only PR.. That's what has me all worried here. They have been blaming her poor performances in everything but her mental strength and concentration, which are a huge part of the whole issue.

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 09:44 PM
Quite simply...excellent post^^^

I'm watching ESPN and they are going to air the Super Bowl.. I might just watch it! :lol:

luv_sweetAna
Feb 1st, 2009, 09:53 PM
God, I still don't know what to make of that entry. I was in shock when I was reading it, didn't know if I laughed or cried. Like Jelena pointed out, if they had posted that before Wimbledon, I'd be indifferent about it. But the timing for this entry is just inappropriate to say the least.
Seems to me her team is doing this as a defiant to the media saying she's a mental midget, which's been true for the last 7 months. Why they're having this attitude to prove for everyone that Ana is mental tough is beyond me.

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:03 PM
God, I still don't know what to make of that entry. I was in shock when I was reading it, didn't know if I laughed or cried. Like Jelena pointed out, if they had posted that before Wimbledon, I'd be indifferent about it. But the timing for this entry is just inappropriate to say the least.
Seems to me her team is doing this as a defiant to the media saying she's a mental midget, which's been true for the last 7 months. Why they're having this attitude to prove for everyone that Ana is mental tough is beyond me.

Whatever purpose they have with this.. it doesn't help Ana at all.

luv_sweetAna
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:09 PM
No it doesn't, it just helps build on the denial...
I wonder what's it gonna take for them and Ana to see the reality of things. Falling out of top 30?

jelenacg
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:11 PM
I`ve never understood this kind of PR or whatever crap
Let your tennis do the talking everything you have to say, say it on court ,this is so stupid

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:14 PM
No it doesn't, it just helps build on the denial...
I wonder what's it gonna take for them and Ana to see the reality of things. Falling out of top 30?

I don't know really.. it has been 7 months of poor play and bad losses already..

I'm just scared to death to see Ana become a total headcase, like Kuznetsova. It would just be terrible to see so much talent wasted. And Ana used to be pretty strong mentally, she has just crumbled in that department since RG.

bruce goose
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:15 PM
I'm watching ESPN and they are going to air the Super Bowl.. I might just watch it! :lol:Well,enjoy the game,bonita brasilen~a:).I'll make a deal with you:If you see ANY of the players--even ONE--on the losing team weeping femininely like Federer did,then I'll delete my earlier critical post and send a personal apology to his fanclub:lol:

Here's an honest question:angel: to you since I tend to be a bit stern sometimes:At what point do we start holding Ana accountable for her attitude and stop tolerating it due to a state of denial?

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:16 PM
I`ve never understood this kind of PR or whatever crap
Let your tennis do the talking everything you have to say, say it on court ,this is so stupid

Hey Jelena! Is Ana in Serbia already? Any news?

gaviotabr
Feb 1st, 2009, 10:22 PM
Well,enjoy the game,bonita brasilen~a:).I'll make a deal with you:If you see ANY of the players--even ONE--on the losing team weeping femininely like Federer did,then I'll delete my earlier critical post and send a personal apology to his fanclub:lol:

Here's an honest question:angel: to you since I tend to be a bit stern sometimes:At what point do we start holding Ana accountable for her attitude and stop tolerating it due to a state of denial?

Ok. I'll be watching the players.. :lol:

Well.. I have to say that I'm more disappointed at her team. It's very difficult from the inside to admit to be struggling with concentration and mental toughness. Sometimes you just need someon to give you direction, to tell you what you have to work on emotionally. That her team seems to be in total denial is what worries me.

jonnyroyale_13
Feb 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM
The timing of the article is strange, but I dont see a problem with it other then the choice of matches. The Vinci match?? Maybe they just wanted something post-Wimbledon in there.:o
Mental toughness isnt to blame for either of the losses this year though, IMO. The Mauresmo loss was a matter of playing like crap. The Kleybanova match we can agree to disagree about. Mental toughness has won her plenty of matches in the past. Maybe they just felt like recycling an old story.

Dexter
Feb 2nd, 2009, 04:26 AM
Gavin Versi wanted to console himself by posting such an article... Seriously, what a timing!

jelenacg
Feb 2nd, 2009, 11:02 AM
Hey Jelena! Is Ana in Serbia already? Any news?
No nothing,i `m hoping for some pictures from their practice

-NAJ-
Feb 2nd, 2009, 11:14 AM
maybe something will be in "Beogradska hronika" on RTS 1

jelenacg
Feb 2nd, 2009, 11:51 AM
maybe something will be in "Beogradska hronika" on RTS 1

Maybe :)but i was hoping Dnevnik 2 will have some interview or videos with them practicing

InsideOut.
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:09 PM
What a silly article. :rolleyes: I nearly laughed when I saw that sentence 'which Ana has in abundance' :lol: PUH-LEASE! She lost 3-set match after 3-set match last year because of a lack, not abundance of it. I really am beginning to feel very pissed off. Everyone, it would seem, except Ana and her team, can see that her weakening mentality and lack of focus and concentration is hurting her. Why would you deny that? Ana needs a sports psychologist to sort her out instead of letting her team trying to console her, her fans and the media that Ana has such amazing mental strength with these brainwashing articles. Every time Ana loses yet another match after coming back from a set down and then completely implode in the third, I think of Hantuchova and Kuznetsova, and other players who have completely wasted their talent due to mental weakness. I have a lot of belief in Ana and her abilities but this is just frustrating me so much. I guess I'll have to check out Sveta's fan forum in a while to see how her fans actually manage to cope with supporting a mental midget. But I mean...at least Sveta still manages to reach second weeks in Grand Slams regularly despite her poor play and she still toughs it out in 3-setters against lower ranked opponents. Ana can't even do that. UGH.

Another tournament, another loss, another day of disappointment, another rant. Never-ending cycle. :rolleyes: Ana when will you reach a SEMIFINAL again?

gaviotabr
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:22 PM
What a silly article. :rolleyes: I nearly laughed when I saw that sentence 'which Ana has in abundance' :lol: PUH-LEASE! She lost 3-set match after 3-set match last year because of a lack, not abundance of it. I really am beginning to feel very pissed off. Everyone, it would seem, except Ana and her team, can see that her weakening mentality and lack of focus and concentration is hurting her. Why would you deny that? Ana needs a sports psychologist to sort her out instead of letting her team trying to console her, her fans and the media that Ana has such amazing mental strength with these brainwashing articles. Every time Ana loses yet another match after coming back from a set down and then completely implode in the third, I think of Hantuchova and Kuznetsova, and other players who have completely wasted their talent due to mental weakness. I have a lot of belief in Ana and her abilities but this is just frustrating me so much. I guess I'll have to check out Sveta's fan forum in a while to see how her fans actually manage to cope with supporting a mental midget. But I mean...at least Sveta still manages to reach second weeks in Grand Slams regularly despite her poor play and she still toughs it out in 3-setters against lower ranked opponents. Ana can't even do that. UGH.

Another tournament, another loss, another day of disappointment, another rant. Never-ending cycle. :rolleyes: Ana when will you reach a SEMIFINAL again?

My biggest fear right now is that Ana becomes a total headcase. These mental struggles if not detected early and fixed might just become chronic, appearing every now and then. Ana used to be a strong player.. I remember when she spent months without losing a 3 setter.. now all this.. and worse, the complete denial. My hope is that the new coach can see it and slowly work with her in her mental game.

bruce goose
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:29 PM
My biggest fear right now is that Ana becomes a total headcase. These mental struggles if not detected early and fixed might just become chronic, appearing every now and then. Ana used to be a strong player.. I remember when she spent months without losing a 3 setter.. now all this.. and worse, the complete denial. My hope is that the new coach can see it and slowly work with her in her mental game.....But will she refuse to SELECT a coach who insists that she needs help with that mental game???????....You didn't see any tears last night,did you;)??Misty-eyed isn't the same as SOBBING...and I mean PLAYERS,not their wives;the women are allowed to cry like that:lol:

gaviotabr
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:31 PM
The timing of the article is strange, but I dont see a problem with it other then the choice of matches. The Vinci match?? Maybe they just wanted something post-Wimbledon in there.:o
Mental toughness isnt to blame for either of the losses this year though, IMO. The Mauresmo loss was a matter of playing like crap. The Kleybanova match we can agree to disagree about. Mental toughness has won her plenty of matches in the past. Maybe they just felt like recycling an old story.

Someone who is mentally tough doesn't double fault on Break point down and follow that up by having a mental walkabout losing 7 games in a row. She totally lost concentration there... Ana should have won that first set against Kleybanova. If she had won the 1st set, I'm positive she would have won the match. And in the third, although Kleybanova was playing pretty well, Ana melted. She could have held strong, but when she lost those game points to go 3-3 in the third, she went on another mental walkabout with tons of UEs. Credits to Alisa for hanging tough, but Ana helped her a lot.

Agreed that the match against Amelie wasn't about mental toughness. And as you said mental toughness has won Ana many matches in the past. But in the PAST. For 7 or 8 months she has been losing 3 setters left and right, fighting and playing reasonably well in the second set, only to regularly melt in the third, losing countless of opportunities. Old Ana would never let those opportunities go, because she WAS mentally tough. Current Ana misses those opportunities and goes on UEs filled mental walkabouts losing countless games in a row.

Ana has always had focus/concentration issues.. she has always showed some difficulties in keeping her intensity up for a whole match. But she used to compensate that by usually playing well on the big points, being tough. Nowadays she just loses it.. the concentration, the winner mentality and the match. The fact that her team can't see it and seem to defy what everyone is saying by putting such an article in her web is worrisome, because they are clearly in denial and not doing anything to fix one of Ana's current biggest problems.

gaviotabr
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:33 PM
....But will she refuse to SELECT a coach who insists that she needs help with that mental game???????....You didn't see any tears last night,did you;)??Misty-eyed isn't the same as SOBBING...and I mean PLAYERS,not their wives;the women are allowed to cry like that:lol:

Bruce.. I have to tell you.. I find a sobbing man charming. I was almost falling in love with Fed at the AO trophy presentation (Don't tell my boyfriend! shhh). :lol:

I thought the Superbowl was quite exciting, especially all the twists and turns at the very end. Who were you rooting for?

bruce goose
Feb 2nd, 2009, 03:54 PM
Bruce.. I have to tell you.. I find a sobbing man charming. I was almost falling in love with Fed at the AO trophy presentation (Don't tell my boyfriend! shhh). :lol:

I thought the Superbowl was quite exciting, especially all the twists and turns at the very end. Who were you rooting for?Even if I knew how to contact brasilen~o zorro contadoro,I don't think he'd have anything to worry about in re Federer stealing you away;)

I was cheering for the 'underdog' Arizona...PLUS I'm a Baltimore fan and it's illegal for us to cheer for Pittsburgh....unless they're playing some team from Spain or France or something:lol:....However,mi cun~ado y hermana are big Steeler fans so I sent them a congrats e-mail

jonnyroyale_13
Feb 3rd, 2009, 12:35 AM
Someone who is mentally tough doesn't double fault on Break point down and follow that up by having a mental walkabout losing 7 games in a row. She totally lost concentration there... Ana should have won that first set against Kleybanova. If she had won the 1st set, I'm positive she would have won the match. And in the third, although Kleybanova was playing pretty well, Ana melted. She could have held strong, but when she lost those game points to go 3-3 in the third, she went on another mental walkabout with tons of UEs. Credits to Alisa for hanging tough, but Ana helped her a lot.

Agreed that the match against Amelie wasn't about mental toughness. And as you said mental toughness has won Ana many matches in the past. But in the PAST. For 7 or 8 months she has been losing 3 setters left and right, fighting and playing reasonably well in the second set, only to regularly melt in the third, losing countless of opportunities. Old Ana would never let those opportunities go, because she WAS mentally tough. Current Ana misses those opportunities and goes on UEs filled mental walkabouts losing countless games in a row.

Ana has always had focus/concentration issues.. she has always showed some difficulties in keeping her intensity up for a whole match. But she used to compensate that by usually playing well on the big points, being tough. Nowadays she just loses it.. the concentration, the winner mentality and the match. The fact that her team can't see it and seem to defy what everyone is saying by putting such an article in her web is worrisome, because they are clearly in denial and not doing anything to fix one of Ana's current biggest problems.

Isabella i read your posts every day, i get what you thought about that match.:yeah::angel:
Actually, between the two losses of this year, i think the Mauresmo one was more about lacking mental toughness. Mauresmo played well enough, but not near what Kleybanova brought. Ana was with Amelie up until 3 all i think, and then after getting broken there was no sign of mental toughness from that point on.
At least in the Kleybanova match she was playing freely for first time since i can remember. In the matches during the majority of the slump she couldnt even get the ball over the net or find the court. Its good to watch a tennis match and not cringe when my favorite is about to hit a ball. Its pretty sorry to have to ask that from a pro tennis player but considering how shes been playing, ill take it.

gaviotabr
Feb 3rd, 2009, 12:42 AM
Isabella i read your posts every day, i get what you thought about that match.:yeah::angel:
Actually, between the two losses of this year, i think the Mauresmo one was more about lacking mental toughness. Mauresmo played well enough, but not near what Kleybanova brought. Ana was with Amelie up until 3 all i think, and then after getting broken there was no sign of mental toughness from that point on.
At least in the Kleybanova match she was playing freely for first time since i can remember. In the matches during the majority of the slump she couldnt even get the ball over the net or find the court. Its good to watch a tennis match and not cringe when my favorite is about to hit a ball. Its pretty sorry to have to ask that from a pro tennis player but considering how shes been playing, ill take it.

Sorry for repeating myself.

I think it's interesting your point about Mauresmo's match. Ana herself admitted later on that she had no energy to fight in that match. I guess she just couldn't keep going.. but I agree that she played a lot worse against Mauresmo than against Kleybanova.

bruce goose
Feb 3rd, 2009, 12:48 AM
Sorry for repeating myself.

Bahhh!You just love debating with guys from North America,doesn't matter if it's gringo o mexicano:nerner:.......:smooch:

jonnyroyale_13
Feb 3rd, 2009, 12:55 AM
yeah, dont be sorry, you have no reason to be.:kiss:
Ill warn you now for future reference- beware of my stubborness.:devil: Bruce can tell you from some baseball discussion.:spit:

bruce goose
Feb 3rd, 2009, 01:01 AM
yeah, dont be sorry, you have no reason to be.:kiss:
Ill warn you now for future reference- beware of my stubborness.:devil: Bruce can tell you from some baseball discussion.:spit:Izzy and I know about baseball;we're Latinos,we OWN that sport:devil::lol:

gaviotabr
Feb 3rd, 2009, 01:20 AM
Bahhh!You just love debating with guys from North America,doesn't matter if it's gringo o mexicano:nerner:.......:smooch:

:kiss::hug:

yeah, dont be sorry, you have no reason to be.:kiss:
Ill warn you now for future reference- beware of my stubborness.:devil: Bruce can tell you from some baseball discussion.:spit:

;):smooch:

So.. to which baseball team do you root for?

bruce goose
Feb 3rd, 2009, 05:36 AM
So.. to which baseball team do you root for?If you're wondering why he didn't answer your question,Izzy,just look at Mr.Royale's profile where it reads 'Location:Chicago'.Despite having TWO MLB franchises,the city has produced less World Series titles,in the last 100 years,than Ana had victories during her 2nd-half 2008 slump:eek:....how's THAT for some sobering perspective?:p

gaviotabr
Feb 3rd, 2009, 11:28 AM
If you're wondering why he didn't answer your question,Izzy,just look at Mr.Royale's profile where it reads 'Location:Chicago'.Despite having TWO MLB franchises,the city has produced less World Series titles,in the last 100 years,than Ana had victories during her 2nd-half 2008 slump:eek:....how's THAT for some sobering perspective?:p

He did answer me Bruce, but in the off topic thread. ;)

jonnyroyale_13
Feb 6th, 2009, 03:07 AM
Looking at the match statistics to figure out 'wtf is wrong with Ana' might make things more confusing:tape:
Below the data is divided into two periods.. for 2007-'08 the numbers are from Berlin of '07 through Roland Garros of '08, the best stretch of her career. For 2008-'09 the numbers are from Wimbledon '08 through Australian Open '09, the worst stretch of her career. The stats include all matches except the Szavay Berlin match. First, the differences in points won:

points won on 1st serve
2007-'08= 68.71% (1992/2899)
2008-'09= 65.86% (839/1274)
- 2.85%

points won on 2nd serve
2007-'08= 48.16% (929/1929)
2008-'09= 47.72% (388/813)
- 0.44%

points won on return
2007-'08= 46.39% (2311/4982)
2008-'09= 44.78% (918/2050)
- 1.61%

The biggest change in losing more points is on first serve but her service numbers dont give it away..

first serve percentage
2007-'08= 59.84% (2889/4828)
2008-'09= 61.04% (1274/2087)
+ 1.20%

aces
2007-'08= 3.61 per match(267/74)
2008-'09= 3.62 per match(94/26)
+ 0.01 per match

doublefaults
2007-'08= 2.96 per match(219/74)
2008-'09= 3.96 per match(103/26)
+ 1.00 per match

bruce goose
Feb 6th, 2009, 03:40 AM
Looking at the match statistics to figure out 'wtf is wrong with Ana' might make things more confusing:tape:
Below the data is divided into two periods.. for 2007-'08 the numbers are from Berlin of '07 through Roland Garros of '08, the best stretch of her career. For 2008-'09 the numbers are from Wimbledon '08 through Australian Open '09, the worst stretch of her career. The stats include all matches except the Szavay Berlin match. First, the differences in points won:

points won on 1st serve
2007-'08= 68.71% (1992/2899)
2008-'09= 63.56% (839/1320)
- 5.15%

points won on 2nd serve
2007-'08= 48.16% (929/1929)
2008-'09= 47.72% (388/813)
- 0.44%

points won on return
2007-'08= 46.39% (2311/4982)
2008-'09= 44.78% (918/2050)
- 1.61%



first serve percentage
2007-'08= 59.96% (2889/4818)
2008-'09= 61.04% (1274/2087)
+ 1.08%

aces
2007-'08= 3.61 per match(267/74)
2008-'09= 3.62 per match(94/26)
+ 0.01 per match

doublefaults
2007-'08= 2.96 per match(219/74)
2008-'09= 3.96 per match(103/26)
+ 1.00 per matchThe total amount of aces doesn't signify much either way.For a powerful player such as Ana,3-odd aces per match isn't going to make much difference.In a 3-set match,she's essentially getting one per set...NOT a make-or-break factor at all.Even with a lousy service motion,Ana can drum up a couple fluke aces that were hit perfectly and still match her total from the better days.Not sure if the DFs play a major role but,as your stats show,they've increased and it's not as if Ana can afford to give away ANY points with her massive UE tendencies.

The most intriguing portion of your findings is the higher 1st serve percentage,and HERE is where the numbers may be lying to us.On the surface,one might suppose that her serving had improved slightly.However,we've all noticed how Ana has struggled mightily with her ball toss AND her confidence.Perhaps the rise,percent-wise,results from Ana striving to avoid DFs by just slapping the ball into play so that it lands within the lines.This could lead to fewer errors than her faulty motion would otherwise produce...but also bring considerably less POWER,and easy points,than Ana used to get.Not only is she NOT getting those old freebies,she's having her serves smoked back at her--putting her on the defensive at the start--by players who no longer fear Ana's service.

I sure as heck am not ANY sort of expert at analyzing tennis stats,but your research deserved a response,I thought:hatoff:

jonnyroyale_13
Feb 6th, 2009, 03:57 AM
Good point about one per set on aces. Ill look at the aces again tomorrow and see how many per set next time.
And i agree on first serve, shes throwing in offspeed stuff, im convinced just watching it. Maybe someone should start keeping track of the radar gun readings. The match against Mauresmo she served 71%! For some players, big deal, but thats high for Ana, and Mauresmo had her way with Ana's serve, slicing it back low. If Ana was going full speed, Mauresmo couldnt do that so easily.

Langers
Feb 8th, 2009, 02:08 PM
OK so i just watched a few short vids I have on my computer of Ana in 06/07. She was still pretty inconsistent back then but man she hit the ball well. :eek: She went for winners, she absolutely pounded the ball and more often than not they came off as she would smash winners DTL and crosscourt. Why has she seemingly lost her power and her ability to hit outright winners? I seriously don't get where the girl that smashed Sharapova at the Toray Pan Pacific Open has gone? She destroyed Maria, winners were flowing from all positions on the court. Nowadays she plays timid and when she does go for her shots they don't come off.

She's a mess right now.

gaviotabr
Aug 6th, 2009, 11:47 PM
I was taking a look at this thread.. and I think now I'm speechless..

I had all kinds of theories.. but right now I seriously don't know what to say or think. I was watching one match from 2006 the other day.. and well.. Ana wasn't having an amazing year either, but she was so much better than whatever we've seen this year. And that was before her breakthrough. WTF is happening? I understand if she has trouble reaching the highs she had last year.. but this is beyond pathetic.. she is just awful. And she never was.. never.

I can't figure this one out.

jonnyroyale_13
Aug 7th, 2009, 02:52 AM
A bit of Ana's presser after the loss to Stosur:

http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/08/06/ana-ivanovic-loses-in-la-vows-to-stay-out-of-self-help-section/

I don't even know what to make of it...

since this is more of a speculative thread, I thought id quote it over here.
Regarding her choice of reading material, a lot of people can relate, i think. You start looking for something in one subject matter, and the next thing you know, youre in a seemingly unrelated subject matter, but the two are related. i dont think theres anything to read into about her reading choices. Its a normal thing to start going off on tangents when you get started on one project.
What she said about the coaches though is surprising imo. From the timing of it, i get the impression that she may have been the one to let Scott go, if she said these things today:shrug:

HowardH
Aug 7th, 2009, 08:32 AM
Looking at the match statistics to figure out 'wtf is wrong with Ana' might make things more confusing:tape:
Below the data is divided into two periods.. for 2007-'08 the numbers are from Berlin of '07 through Roland Garros of '08, the best stretch of her career. For 2008-'09 the numbers are from Wimbledon '08 through Australian Open '09, the worst stretch of her career. The stats include all matches except the Szavay Berlin match. First, the differences in points won:

points won on 1st serve
2007-'08= 68.71% (1992/2899)
2008-'09= 65.86% (839/1274)
- 2.85%

points won on 2nd serve
2007-'08= 48.16% (929/1929)
2008-'09= 47.72% (388/813)
- 0.44%

points won on return
2007-'08= 46.39% (2311/4982)
2008-'09= 44.78% (918/2050)
- 1.61%

The biggest change in losing more points is on first serve but her service numbers dont give it away..

first serve percentage
2007-'08= 59.84% (2889/4828)
2008-'09= 61.04% (1274/2087)
+ 1.20%

aces
2007-'08= 3.61 per match(267/74)
2008-'09= 3.62 per match(94/26)
+ 0.01 per match

doublefaults
2007-'08= 2.96 per match(219/74)
2008-'09= 3.96 per match(103/26)
+ 1.00 per match

For me, it is exactly what you point out JonnyRoyale. The lack of damage done by the first serve is the most key factor here. I have looked at a lot of tennis stats and this is a very key stat, much more important than the first serve percentage that commentators always talk about. If someone is leading in this stat it requires many factors to add together to cause this person to lose. The greatest servers in history like Sampras, Krajicek, Ivanisevic and others normally only had about 55%-65% first serve percentage, but won a huge number of points when they landed the first. Of course their second serves were also great...

1st serve points won is a stat that reflects not only how well the first serve is struck but also how well the player is following up the serve. On big points this matters a lot, especially since players strive to land first serves on big points.

Anyway, I will demonstrate by using stats from the current tournament that you guys can access. The three main stats are: points won on first serve, points won on second serve, first serve percentage.

My feeling is that if a player is leading the points won on first serve, even by quite a small amount, say 5%, the other player can only win if they are winning way, way more second serve points, and/or they are leading the first serve percentage by a very large amount, or if they are lucky. Sometimes a single onesided set skews the data though, you have to take that into account if you are being very thorough.

I apologise in advance for the length of this. I will try to focus on close matches, as well as Ana's, since in easy wins one player often dominates all stats, which is not so enlightening.

First group: from today.

Zheng Jie beats Dinara 7-5 4-6 6-4.
1st serve points won: Zheng leads 63% to 58%
2nd serve points won: Dinara leads 46% to 38%
1st serve %: Zheng leads 77% to 70%

Vera Zvonareva beats Yanina 7-6 4-6 6-4
1st serve points won: Vera leads 62% to 53%
2nd serve points won: Yanina leads 49% to 42%
1st serve %: Yanina leads 66% to 60%

Masha S beats Alona 4-6 6-0 6-3
1st serve points won: Masha leads 64% to 49%
2nd serve points won: Masha leads 29% to 25%
1st serve %: Alona leads 73% to 66%

Sam beats Ana I 6-3 6-2
1st serve points won: Sam leads 75% to 57%
2nd serve points won: Sam leads 54% to 42%
1st serve %: Ana leads 74% to 55%

Okay, so that last one wasn't a close one, but I thought I'd put it here. Sam is leading on both 1st and 2nd serve stats, but Ana leads the least important stat of the three, the 1st serve percentage. I mean, high 1st serve percentage is important, but only when put together with a damaging first serve. It is not useful when the serve itself does little damage. However it can also be useful to players with exceptionally weak 2nd serves, who must avoid hitting 2nd serves at all costs. But this does not apply to Ana.

Seeing a pattern so far? The person leading the 1st serve points usually wins the match. They have to be unlucky or losing out in many other areas to lose. Of course you also need to look at stats set by set, particularly if one set is 6-1 or something, but I'm just giving an overview here.

Yesterday:

Anna C beat Alisa Kleybanova 6-3 3-6 6-1
1st serve points won: Anna leads 65% to 50%
2nd serve points won: Alisa leads 45% to 41%
1st serve %: Anna leads 64% to 62%

Ula Radwanska beat Dominika 6-4 6-7 6-4
1st serve points won: Ula leads 61% to 53%
2nd serve points won: Dominika leads 48% to 43%
1st serve %: Dominika leads 63% to 61%

Alona beat Lucie Safarova 5-7 6-4 7-5
1st serve points won: Alona leads 57% to 56%
2nd serve points won: Lucie leads 50% to 48%
1st serve %: Alona leads 75% to 73%

Masha S beats Vika 6-7 6-4 6-2
1st serve points won: Masha leads 68% to 55%
2nd serve points won: Equal, 37% each
1st serve %: Vika leads 73% to 63%

Nadia beats Shahar 6-4 2-6 6-3
1st serve points won: Nadia leads 68% to 61%
2nd serve points won: Shahar leads 38% to 27%
1st serve %: Shahar leads 65% to 61%

From two days before:

Vera beats Shuai 3-6 6-3 7-6
1st serve points won: Vera leads 68% to 59%
2nd serve points won: Shuai leads 44% to 39%
1st serve %: Shuai leads 70% to 62%

Now, as a disclaimer, I'm not saying that this guarantees you win. But being good in this stat sure gives you a better chance of winning. The stats do not show everything that happened in the match, and they don't show when people won certain points. But usually, the person leading the first serve points wins, unless they are way behind on second serve stats or first serve percentage. Or if they fail to take a ton of BPs.

Why is this stat important? My feeling is that winning a good percentage of points on the first serve is merely doing what you are meant to do. It's the normal way of holding serve. If you are not winning enough points on the first serve, but are staying close by winning points on the second serve, you are just "surviving" your service games. Also, you try very hard to get first serves on break points etc, so it's very useful to be winning many of those points easily.

Anyway, that's what I think. I think Ana needs to do more damage not just with the first serve itself, but following up with the fh after the serve. On big points, when you try so hard to get first serves in, that really counts.

Phew, if you made it through that, congrats. :lol: :wavey:

gaviotabr
Aug 7th, 2009, 09:17 AM
since this is more of a speculative thread, I thought id quote it over here.
Regarding her choice of reading material, a lot of people can relate, i think. You start looking for something in one subject matter, and the next thing you know, youre in a seemingly unrelated subject matter, but the two are related. i dont think theres anything to read into about her reading choices. Its a normal thing to start going off on tangents when you get started on one project.
What she said about the coaches though is surprising imo. From the timing of it, i get the impression that she may have been the one to let Scott go, if she said these things today:shrug:

What she said about coaches and practices really surprised me in a way and disappointed me. I still don't think it's related to Scott, but having so much to work on, she just seem she doesn't feel like doing it. She has barely played this year, and just took almost a month off. Yet she is thinking about telling her coach she needs a couple of days off, or that she only wants to practice once a day. It's like she is pushing tennis away.

Then we read how she played a listless match and didn't have the heart to fight and didn't seem like she wanted to be there.. I just looks like she lost her tennis desire, and that's the biggest problem for any sports person. Will she ever recover the fire? I'm really not sure..

Nikkiri
Aug 7th, 2009, 10:18 AM
Everything.

rasko
Aug 7th, 2009, 10:45 AM
She should stop being little girl and crybaby.
Instead reading psychology books, she should watch again matches of her idol Seles and see her fierce attitude.

soul
Aug 7th, 2009, 11:23 AM
I have nothing to say either; this year is tatoaly mess.Changing coaches,rainers, lovers. So what is she going in her mind? What does she want to do? Nothing is stable in her life -both on and off court.
So from now she has to decide; to have vacations or to have exercises.

gaviotabr
Aug 7th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I think Ana is going through a period of emotional instability... and her head is aol.. maybe some day she will recover it, maybe not.

Nikkiri
Aug 7th, 2009, 11:56 AM
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu44/Nikkiri/gifs/5pmvjp.gif

gaviotabr
Aug 8th, 2009, 01:21 PM
The more quotes I read from Ana, the less I like her attitude and the more I think she might not get out of this.. ever.

Ana Ivanovic

“I started really well, I think. The first set was really close and I had chances to break her but she was serving really well. She had some big serves. On the other hand, I wasn’t serving really well. She was aggressive and she was fast. I think that was a big difference in the match. But I think it was much closer than maybe the score indicated.

“I feel all I need is just a little more matches and a little more competition. But it’s tough because I feel I just can’t match the level of performance that I want. I’m a bit of a perfectionist. I question the things that I am doing and I am addressing those things. I feel positive about the work I am doing. I have to tell myself to be patient.

“After Wimbledon, I had some injuries and took three weeks off. So I started off slowly. I want to enjoy myself and not spend so much of my time on the court. Now, I feel it is important to be fresh and hungry again. Now, I am feeling excited to work again.”


http://globalvillagetennisnews.com/2009/08/07/august-6-2009-resultsla-womens-tennis-championships--zheng-stuns-safina.aspx

So many contradictios.. she has been saying she needs more matches for the past year. She won't be getting that chance if she is not fighting to win each match.

Then she says she feels she can't match the level of performance she wants and that she is a perfeccionist. A perfeccionist seeks perfection, is always fighting to achieve it and is never content with not getting it. Ana is just blocking herself by saying she can't do it. She should be out there chanting Obama's slogan.. "Yes I can. And I'll prove it!" That attitude just prevents her from getting a higher level of performance.. at any error, she will think she can't do it, and get frustrated and nervous. Which is exactly what seems to happen. Instead she should act more like a real perfeccionist and never let go.. missed a chance? Keep seeking it until you nail.

To close it out she says she wants to enjoy herself and not spend so much time on court. That is revealing.. she is not enjoying herself on the court. It's a killer for any sports person. How can you achieve things if you don't want to be there, if it's not good for you? And then she says it's important to be hungry and that she feels excited to work again. Talk about contradiction.. She doesn't want to be too much on court but is excited to work? WTF?

Her head is a complete mess.. and it has been a year. She says she question things she is doing and follows it up by saying she is positive about the things she is doing. How is questioning being positive? She is very insecure.. And I don't think patience is the answer for her, thought it is what we have to be. The longer she waits.. the more she thinks it's just a matter of time, the harder it will be to turn things around. It's like waiting for things to fall from the sky.. you wait and wait and they never come. She should just get fed up with losing and refuse it.. get fired up, get a "I will not lose anymore" attitude. But well.. maybe that's just not her.

People around her aren't being able to help her confidence wise either. Maybe she is just too sttuborn.. they aren't getting her fired up for matches.. or more focused and intense on court.. Or even calmer.. she is always a pool of emotions she can't even control. It's ups and downs all the time.

She could be saying all this September last year.. and she probably was. It's just the same stuff... and nothing changes. I wonder if she will ever get to a point she will actually see that she has become irrelevant for the tour and is not in contention for any title, and if that will have a positive or negative effect in her as a player and as a person. She can grow depressed.. or it can be the turning point. Also.. how many of her prime years will she lose because of it? She has already lost 1.

HowardH
Aug 8th, 2009, 03:46 PM
I agree Gaviotabr. Ana sounds like someone who is trying to deny that they have problems. :o

I question the things that I am doing and I am addressing those things. I feel positive about the work I am doing. I have to tell myself to be patient.

This sounds a lot like: I want to be positive about what I have been doing, but I question whether it is actually working and I'm getting impatient. However I have no idea what else I could do so I keep smiling and telling people that yes, everything is going in the right direction, we just have to wait.

But I think it was much closer than maybe the score indicated.

This sounds like: Boy that was onesided wasn't it? Maybe if I try to believe it was a close loss I will feel better.

I want to enjoy myself and not spend so much of my time on the court. Now, I feel it is important to be fresh and hungry again. Now, I am feeling excited to work again.

And this one seems a lot like: I wish I was hungry, but I would really rather not be on the court so much, I want to do other things I actually enjoy. I am trying to convince myself that I am excited to work on court again.

I don't know. I think it is certainly possible for her to turn her career, she is still top 15 right, not bad for most players, but she needs to accept that the direction she is going in is not the right one, and that she needs to change things.

Anthony G
Aug 9th, 2009, 12:41 AM
I think Ana needs to realize first that she actually needs help because for me she's in denial and she's lost !

Another thing, for me, Ana lost that spark, that desire she had. It's becoming more and more careless and I don't want to see another Vaidisova disaster !
Ana has too much talent to waste and time is running out because all these up and coming players as well as the solid players in the top ten are not going to wait for her !
She has to realize what's wrong with her quickly, because she's running out of options and it doesn't look too good for a player who should be winning Grand Slams right now .

Loungy
Aug 9th, 2009, 01:02 AM
and time is running out because all these up and coming players as well as the solid players in the top ten are not going to wait for her !
:lol: See, I actually think looking at the up and comers should offer Ana a (very small) comfort, because unless someone from the early 90s crop improves dramatically, there's no Graf/Seles/Williams/Henin there. So she has some time to pick herself up and score some wins before a new dominant player rises.

Anthony G
Aug 9th, 2009, 09:00 AM
:lol: See, I actually think looking at the up and comers should offer Ana a (very small) comfort, because unless someone from the early 90s crop improves dramatically, there's no Graf/Seles/Williams/Henin there. So she has some time to pick herself up and score some wins before a new dominant player rises.

:rolleyes:
I disagree with you completely.
The Williams sisters aren't going away anytime soon, Maria :hearts: is coming back as well as Clijsters, Vera Z :drool: is regaining momemtum, Azarenka :devil: is the new very dangerous top 10 player, Kuzzie and Dinara are still young as well and Elena's always going to be dangerous no matter what .
Plus now Marion, Sam and those who are having great runs at tournaments like Cirstea are gaining so much confidence and they are for sure a threat and they will overtake her soon.
If Ana continu playing the way she is, I'm afraid making a comeback to the top is going to be very difficult especially because she looks careless and she is fighting her own self, not the player whom she's playing against :help:
For me, Although I hate to admit it, She has until Tokyo to turn things around or else it's going to be another Vaidisova meltdown

jelenacg
Aug 9th, 2009, 10:14 AM
I agree with Loungy,I also don`t see any newcomers who could win a GS in near future
Radwanska and Azarenka are 20 years old and their best reults in slams is QF ,Woznizcki is 19 years old and her best result is 4R
Many people have game to win a GS but they don`t have a head and focus in crucial points to do so
Look at Safina or Elena :o:o
Radwanska was known as queen of MM tournaments and this year she had many problems bc she was in top ten and she couldn`t play as many MM tournaments .I expect the same thing from Woznizcki next year
Williams sisters,Dementieva are over 27 and we could see in Ana`s case how things can change in one year.Beside Venus is no more a factor at RG and AO and Serena i think only once defended her GS title so next year will be very interesting imo
Maria is a fighter and great champion but GS title is still far away
Zvonareva only this year won a big title and she is 25 years old
WTA is not in great shape we all know that and that`s why we have players like Stosur at RG SF ,Dokic in A0 QF :rolleyes::lol:.Cirstea is cute but she is not going to be a next big thing :lol:Those players are only taking advantage of the situations imo
Really sad thing is that Ana was a #2,3,4 with so much better competition and now she is miles away from top ten :tape::help:

The 2nd Law
Aug 9th, 2009, 10:19 AM
^ Ana is still relatively young. I'm not putting a deadline on when she can "come back" to form. IMO it could happen at any time, but I see her winning at least another French Open and maybe a hardcourt slam at worst, if she regains her best form.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Aug 9th, 2009, 10:23 AM
I agree with Loungy,I also don`t see any newcomers who could win a GS in near future
Radwanska and Azarenka are 20 years old and their best reults in slams is QF ,Woznizcki is 19 years old and her best result is 4R
Many people have game to win a GS but they don`t have a head and focus in crucial points to do so
Look at Safina or Elena :o:o
Radwanska was known as queen of MM tournaments and this year she had many problems bc she was in top ten and she couldn`t play as many MM tournaments .I expect the same thing from Woznizcki next year
Williams sisters,Dementieva are over 27 and we could see in Ana`s case how things can change in one year.Beside Venus is no more a factor at RG and AO and Serena i think only once defended her GS title so next year will be very interesting imo
Maria is a fighter and great champion but GS title is still far away
Zvonareva only this year won a big title and she is 25 years old
WTA is not in great shape we all know that and that`s why we have players like Stosur at RG SF ,Dokic in A0 QF :rolleyes::lol:.Cirstea is cute but she is not going to be a next big thing :lol:Those players are only taking advantage of the situations imo
Really sad thing is that Ana was a #2,3,4 with so much better competition and now she is miles away from top ten :tape::help:

Well, here we have some hope. The most seems indeed to be true. Maybe that Azarenka can do some more in slams, but the other ones are no contenders yet.
For Sharapova it's a question if she ever gets a normal serve again. Then we know she can win again. And let's see what Kim can do.


And a Vaidisova disaster is still far away.
In such a bad year Ana still had a final and lately she beat still the players Stosur, Errani, King, Tanasugarn, Hradecka, Benesova.
Not a great list but Nicole won't come even close to beat them.

gaviotabr
Aug 9th, 2009, 11:38 AM
I also think the current group of up and comers is not very strong. And apart from Azarenka at the hardcourt slams, I don't really see any contending for the titles.. unless something extraordinary happens.

But Ana is losing countless opportunities. With the state of the tour, she should be racking up titles.. not struggling to make the quarters. And truth to be told, once you fall, it's really hard to regain championship form. So the longer it takes, the harder it will be.. and she might not find it within herself to do it. And if she does regain some for in 2 or 3 years time, then maybe there will come along a new line of top players and up and comers, who might be strong. And her prime years will be passing by..

If we think only about level of play.. this time last year every top player was playing better. Every single one. Dementieva was winning the Olympics with some awesome tennis.. Safina was in a 6 tournament finals stretch. Serena and Venus had just played a pretty good Wimbledon final, unlike this year.. and would go on to play a great QF match at the US Open, each winning one slam. JJ was on top form, getting to her first slam final. Ana had won RG, playing breathtaking tennis. Fast foward one year.. only Kuzzy is playing better now than a year ago. And well.. Azarenka and Wozniacki, who are still not really contenders for the biggest prizes. And in that mix, Ana was world number 1. Now she is barely playing matches, because she is barely winning. Imagine her in good form, with the current state of the tour? She is just letting her opportunities pass her by. I don't think she will ever get to Vaidisova level... but Vaidisova didn't start her decline losing to any scrub like now.. she actually made Wimbledon quarters last year.

The bottom line in thinking about the fall from grace for any player is that the longer it takes for them to recover, the more difficult it becomes and the deeper they go inside their own slumps. That's why I don't really think the answer for Ana is patience. Actually, that might even take away any fragile confidence she might have. Imagine if she is playing a match.. she is very insecure because she is not having good matches, maybe not even good practices. People are constantly telling her to just be patient, that things will come sooner or later. So.. in the match she starts to make errors. Will she tell herself that she can do it? That she just needs to stick around and fight? Or is the thought that will come up be something alone the lines of "I'm not there yet.. I can't get to that level.. I need more time"? I would bet for the last one, which would lead to her feeling there is no hope for the match and not even putting up a fight. Ana needs confidence, needs to believe she can do it, at any time. Needs to get fired up, not complacent. It's all a mess in her camp, IMHO. And she keeps saying the same stuff she was saying a year ago. Wake up Ana! It's been 1 whole year of missed opportunities and bad play, there are things going wrong, you can't just wait and wait and wait for the skies to open up and things go your way.

jelenacg
Aug 9th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I don`t buy that ` I need more time` excuse :rolleyes: :bs:
I think when she is on court and has a bad ball toss and hits a bad serve she keeps thinking what is that,i can do so much better than that and then she becomes frustrate with her own game and she isn`t able to controle her emotions anymore
What she needs is to stop thinking about the past and to concentrate on the future .So no more thinking i used to have great serve,FH...You just use what you have at the moment and fight with that
The bad thing is her team wasn`t really helpfull and now Scott left so i don`t know who can help her anymore
I only have a little hope that Sven and Cahill will be able to fix her serve for next season

Curtos07
Aug 9th, 2009, 07:13 PM
The bottom line in thinking about the fall from grace for any player is that the longer it takes for them to recover, the more difficult it becomes and the deeper they go inside their own slumps. That's why I don't really think the answer for Ana is patience. Actually, that might even take away any fragile confidence she might have. Imagine if she is playing a match.. she is very insecure because she is not having good matches, maybe not even good practices. People are constantly telling her to just be patient, that things will come sooner or later. So.. in the match she starts to make errors. Will she tell herself that she can do it? That she just needs to stick around and fight? Or is the thought that will come up be something alone the lines of "I'm not there yet.. I can't get to that level.. I need more time"? I would bet for the last one, which would lead to her feeling there is no hope for the match and not even putting up a fight. Ana needs confidence, needs to believe she can do it, at any time. Needs to get fired up, not complacent. It's all a mess in her camp, IMHO. And she keeps saying the same stuff she was saying a year ago. Wake up Ana! It's been 1 whole year of missed opportunities and bad play, there are things going wrong, you can't just wait and wait and wait for the skies to open up and things go your way.

I agree with this. Ana has shown she can play good tennis for a few games, a set or even a match, but she can't put it all together on a consistent basis. Because it seems when anything begins going bad, she has the mentality of "here we go again". Good/great players make adjustments and fix their probmens during the match before it becomes even worse. It seems to me, Ana sometimes panics or can only remember herself playing badly so many times before and losing. These bad loses, especially the ones where she blows a double break lead or not being able to find any form in a match are so fresh in her mind, in creeps into her thoughts during the match and plays with her psyche. Until she can replace those bad thoughts with fresher, better ones by stringing together some good wins, the problems will only continue. It's all a big mental problem with Ana at the moment and as you said, the longer she struggles, the harder it will to regain her old form.

spiritedenergy
Aug 9th, 2009, 09:15 PM
those quotes... she wants to enjoy and not to be on court??? That's enough to prevent her to win anything relevant ever again. I stick to my belief that she doesn't like to play tennis anymore, and that she's getting lazy (maybe too much money too soon?). During matches (some matches like Wimbledon) she cares, but she needs to care during practice too, practicing half-assed is not going to bring her anywhere... So yes i see a similar attitude to Vaidisova...

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Aug 9th, 2009, 10:48 PM
Lately she's playing her best tennis in practise, so don't see she doesn't care. That's just not the problem.

cowking
Aug 9th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Well I went on vacation for a while and I came back to see Ana had done quite poorly in LA. I've been thinking it for a while and Ana has basically transformed into a not-so-notable top 30ish player. She has done nothing this year to indicate that she is worthy of a top 10 spot. She hasn't even beaten a top 10 player, which is shocking considering how many top 10 wins she's had in the past. I have no clue what her problems stem from; could be a lack of motivation as some people have mentioned or it could be a lack of confidence. You can sort of see now that she doesn't have the belief she once had. I remember that during RG 08 it really looked like she could make any shot out there and that she had the belief. She's lost some of that.

Of course, there are still positives. Thank God she hasn't regressed as much as Vaidisova or Chakvetadze for example. Also, she's still young, and there's plenty of time for her to get back to her old form. Hopefully she'll win another slam sometime in the future, she's definitely still capable.

spiritedenergy
Aug 9th, 2009, 11:46 PM
Lately she's playing her best tennis in practise, so don't see she doesn't care. That's just not the problem.

well reports from LA are different IIRC, i read someone said she looked sad after practice before the match vs. Stosur...
and then the whole training thing, the fact that she's basically coachless...

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 12:17 AM
So.. I was reading around and I saw a question I think it's pretty legit. Do you guys think that if Ana had won the IW final, her year would have been any different? I think it could have been.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Aug 13th, 2009, 12:20 AM
Who knows.
Maybe everything was far better if she lost that SF against Jankovic.

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 12:56 AM
So.. maybe Ana will get a new coach for next season..

Do you guys think it might help her or it won't matter much?

Isha312
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:20 AM
So.. maybe Ana will get a new coach for next season..

Do you guys think it might help her or it won't matter much?

I think it'll largely depend on the coach. It seems like Ana has had coaches around her that make things fun and light, maybe she needs a drill sergeant who's gonna make her buckle down and realize how much she sucks right now.

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:25 AM
I think it'll largely depend on the coach. It seems like Ana has had coaches around her that make things fun and light, maybe she needs a drill sergeant who's gonna make her buckle down and realize how much she sucks right now.

Yes.. before I thought it wouldn't fit Ana.. but now I think she should get someone like Brad Gilbert.. not him, because he doesn't like her. But someone really tough. She needs to man up.

Isha312
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:29 AM
Yes.. before I thought it wouldn't fit Ana.. but now I think she should get someone like Brad Gilbert.. not him, because he doesn't like her. But someone really tough. She needs to man up.

This made me LOL. It's so true.

Sean.
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:30 AM
Pregnant?

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:32 AM
This made me LOL. It's so true.

:lol:

It's one of Serena's brilliant quotes. :lol:

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:34 AM
Pregnant?

:shrug:

Sean.
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:36 AM
To answer Dex's question, I really don't know anymore. I've had various theories which were proved wrong, I had always thought she would eventually come out of it. Now I am starting to really lose faith... :sad:

Isha312
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:36 AM
:lol:

It's one of Serena's brilliant quotes. :lol:

Oh, why couldn't I just be a Serena fan? Life could be so much simpler. :sobbing:

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:43 AM
Oh, why couldn't I just be a Serena fan? Life could be so much simpler. :sobbing:

So true.. :sobbing:

This particular quote came after beating Kuzzy at the AO QF. She said she thought to herself she had to man up or go home. :lol: It worked!

jelenacg
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:53 AM
Yes.. before I thought it wouldn't fit Ana.. but now I think she should get someone like Brad Gilbert.. not him, because he doesn't like her. But someone really tough. She needs to man up.

I would also include some slapping during those practices :( :fiery:
She needs a tougher parents ,someone to talk some sense into her :o
Dragana apperently only looks tough ,i`m disappointed in her abilities to talk some sense into Ana :(

Curtos07
Aug 13th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Yes.. before I thought it wouldn't fit Ana.. but now I think she should get someone like Brad Gilbert.. not him, because he doesn't like her. But someone really tough. She needs to man up.

I know he isn't available but maybe someone like Dinara's coach Zeljko Krajan is what Ana needs. :shrug:

Sean.
Aug 13th, 2009, 02:54 AM
I know he isn't available but maybe someone like Dinara's coach Zeljko Krajan is what Ana needs. :shrug:

Ana would fire him within a week. She's far too independant and doesn't like being bossed about. If she hires a 'Commander' coach she will get rid of him the 1st time he tells her to do something!

I know this is going to sound odd & will never happen, but I think Richard Williams could do wonders with her! He's laid back & fun, but demands respect and knows what he's doing.

Not going to happen though!

HowardH
Aug 13th, 2009, 04:37 AM
If Ana was coached by Brad, Krajan or Mr Williams, I can just imagine what she would say. "Wait, you're telling me to do things that will actually improve my game? You want me to train more? Harder? Improve my toss and fitness? Excuse me very much, I am allowed to choose my own path to tennis destruction and disaster. You may suggest strange changes that have had so so or mixed results for other players. And I'm very excited by that."

HowardH
Aug 13th, 2009, 04:47 AM
Seriously though, fix the serve. Fix it. She can't win without it.

Whose great idea was the short action? I guess Maria set such a great example Ana just had to try it and see if she could also work the DF magic.

The toss is the thing. If she tosses well she serves well.

Of course she now also has many other problems, including severe mental issues, but at least I would feel better if her serve settled down.

If she wants an example of someone who fixed the toss (mostly) she just has to look at Elena D. Elena has not shortened the action, instead she has made it smoother and she establishes a more stable, leaning back body position that helps her control the toss. As a result she is at her best ever ranking. Another good example of someone who purposely gets this leaning back position to make sure the toss is consistent is Mardy, Novak too. Of course great servers like Pete S or Goran Iv or Richard K did it all so effortlessly no one noticed that they always established the exact same body position to toss. No shortening of the swing is needed, instead Ana needs to learn how to get her torso movement in sync with the toss so that the body movement required to serve does not affect her toss accuracy. Good ball tossers always have smooth and consistent torso movements. On the other hand, Ana is sometimes still leaning forward when she tosses, sometimes leaning way back etc. It's not about "releasing the ball too early" as some commentators have said, but about getting the right body angle and smoothness.

And seriously, I can't even remember what Melinda plays like :sobbing:, but I guess it's irrelevant now. Well, okay, I looked up Ana's win over her in 07 Wimby to remind myself, she isn't a bad player, lefty without huge power but who tries to hit aggressively. But it doesn't matter whom she plays. I still want to believe a good run at USO is possible, but everything is saying it isn't, even if she was actually playing well she prefers slow surfaces. But I'm still going to hope she does something. We're just hoping for miracles now.

On the mental side, I hope Ana realises that she needs a major mental overhaul. Her attitude must change.

spiritedenergy
Aug 13th, 2009, 05:03 AM
Seriously though, fix the serve. Fix it. She can't win without it.

Whose great idea was the short action? I guess Maria set such a great example Ana just had to try it and see if she could also work the DF magic.

The toss is the thing. If she tosses well she serves well.

Of course she now also has many other problems, including severe mental issues, but at least I would feel better if her serve settled down.

If she wants an example of someone who fixed the toss (mostly) she just has to look at Elena D. Elena has not shortened the action, instead she has made it smoother and she establishes a more stable, leaning back body position that helps her control the toss. As a result she is at her best ever ranking. Another good example of someone who purposely gets this leaning back position to make sure the toss is consistent is Mardy, Novak too. Of course great servers like Pete S or Goran Iv or Richard K did it all so effortlessly no one noticed that they always established the exact same body position to toss. No shortening of the swing is needed, instead Ana needs to learn how to get her torso movement in sync with the toss so that the body movement required to serve does not affect her toss accuracy. Good ball tossers always have smooth and consistent torso movements. On the other hand, Ana is sometimes still leaning forward when she tosses, sometimes leaning way back etc. It's not about "releasing the ball too early" as some commentators have said, but about getting the right body angle and smoothness.

And seriously, I can't even remember what Melinda plays like :sobbing:, but I guess it's irrelevant now. Well, okay, I looked up Ana's win over her in 07 Wimby to remind myself, she isn't a bad player, lefty without huge power but who tries to hit aggressively. But it doesn't matter whom she plays. I still want to believe a good run at USO is possible, but everything is saying it isn't, even if she was actually playing well she prefers slow surfaces. But I'm still going to hope she does something. We're just hoping for miracles now.

On the mental side, I hope Ana realises that she needs a major mental overhaul. Her attitude must change.

great post... Ana's serve now it's in similar state as Dementieva's was... so yes she needs a deep work on it. And yes she needs a sport psychologist to change her attitude, she's defeating herself before every match...

Until she does this, she'll go down deeper and deeper:o

bruce goose
Aug 13th, 2009, 11:42 AM
There might be some who are upset with my posting this since I've bad-mouthed Ana in anger...anger that was born from seeing such wonderful potential flushed down the toilet...but you'll get over it.

The official thread title is 'WTF is wrong with Ana',but we can see that there are lots of thingS(plural) that are wrong with Ana right now.Shall we go to the source??....I really like what one poster said when she expressed disappointment with Dragana(though Ana's dad is DEFINITELY implicated in this,too...perhaps even more).Hypothetically speaking,if Richard Williams died,Venus and Serena would grieve obviously...maybe even suck for one or two tourneys.......but then they would BOUNCE BACK.WHY?Because whatever principles he helped instill in them as young girls form a strong foundation in their lives so,even in his permanent absence, they would live on in them.

What ARE Ana's principles?Does she even HAVE any?I ask this b/c she looks like a lost person who's wandering through her tennis career/life without ANY clear direction as to what she needs(OR wants).It's hard to measure which is worse...the decisions,and parasites,Ana surrounds herself with in her PERSONAL life...or the choices she's made in her career.Everything I see in Ana points in the same direction---Dragana and her dad="Buddy Parents" who let her cling to whatever felt good to her as she was growing up,without teaching any strong values that would be helping Ana find her way if she had them ingrained in her heart right now(maybe they were afraid of being "too strict" with Ana or something...whatever:rolleyes:).It seems that RW found a nice balance with Serena and Vee in offering his girls lots of affection while still providing firm guidance to them as a PARENT.......Looks like Ana got plenty of the first element and practically ZERO of the second:help:

lilimi
Aug 13th, 2009, 02:06 PM
I know he isn't available but maybe someone like Dinara's coach Zeljko Krajan is what Ana needs. :shrug:

i wish Ana to find her Zeljko. To find someone who understands her and she trusts. someone not afraid to tell her what's wrong.

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 07:19 PM
From Matt Cronin at twitter:

TennisReportersIvanovic falls to Czink in Cincy. How long will her freefall continue?
about 1 hour ago from web

http://twitter.com/TennisReporters

Good question!

jelenacg
Aug 13th, 2009, 09:00 PM
From Matt Cronin at twitter:



http://twitter.com/TennisReporters

Good question!

Forever :rolleyes::tape:

gaviotabr
Aug 13th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Forever :rolleyes::tape:

:sobbing:

Curtos07
Aug 15th, 2009, 08:49 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed already but does anybody here agree with me that Ana should add more tournaments to her schedule? I know Ana doesn't like the MM tournaments but she would be much better of by playing in them and getting some wins to build up her confidence because wih her current form, she is having a difficult time winning premier events. Right now, Ana has a better chance of winning smaller tourney's where the field isn't as strong as the bigger ones. She needs to get the feel of what it is like to win again. I think that could do a lot to get her at least heading in the right direction again. Winning a small event is a start. Once she starts winning again, even if it comes in MM tournaments, she will feel better about herself playing in bigger tournaments.

gaviotabr
Aug 15th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed already but does anybody here agree with me that Ana should add more tournaments to her schedule? I know Ana doesn't like the MM tournaments but she would be much better of by playing in them and getting some wins to build up her confidence because wih her current form, she is having a difficult time winning premier events. Right now, Ana has a better chance of winning smaller tourney's where the field isn't as strong as the bigger ones. She needs to get the feel of what it is like to win again. I think that could do a lot to get her at least heading in the right direction again. Winning a small event is a start. Once she starts winning again, even if it comes in MM tournaments, she will feel better about herself playing in bigger tournaments.

I agree that she could add more tournaments. Mostly because she has barely played this year at all, and she seems to be forgetting how to win matches. Also, with more matches she could get more rhythm, more serve practice under pressure, and could figure out things that work out for her. She has had a lot of practice time and it doesn't seem to be helping.. she is actually getting more and more confused, trying to desconstruct her game, which is not the answer. If she tries too many changes, she will lose her natural game for good.. she already seems completely lost on court.. like she walks in and doesn't really know what to do in order to win. So maybe under match pressure she could finally get some clarity in her head. Also, it would leave her less time to think.. overthinking is one of her problems.

But there is a problem to adding more tournaments. I don't think the opponent matters much right now. Ana is just giving matches away. She just lost to Melinda Czink, who is not winning or even making the final rounds of international tournaments. So I don't think Ana would go into one and win, to be honest. And a bad loss might further increase her confidence crisis.

Still.. I would think it's a good idea now. Ana has barely played this year. Just 34 matches.. it's really not much. Sharapova only came back in may and she has already played 23 matches. Playing this few matches can't help.

Unfortunately, I don't think they will add anything..

Curtos07
Aug 15th, 2009, 09:29 PM
^I think, or at least I am hoping they add Moscow or Linz to her schedule after Beijing. She added Moscow late last year so I am hoing she does so again this season. If not, that she is looking at a 3 month offseason. :help:

Can she play in Bali? I heard she would have to win a International tournament to qualify so I am kind of hoping she plays in Linz again this year. She has had a lot of success there and maybe she somehow wins it again and qualifies for Bali.

bruce goose
Aug 15th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Gotta give a BIG thumbs down to Ana's Adidas stooges and ESPECIALLY to her family and her pieza de mierda excuse for a bf.ANYone who really cared about Ana would have the guts to tell her the truth(of course,Scott lacks the integrity to do this since doing so might kill Ana's desire for intimacy:rolleyes:):"Baby,you suck right now and you NEED to get a top coach who can guide you back to where you were,even BEYOND that with your great potential...and you've got to LISTEN to him instead of complaining whenever he tells you to do something you don't want...and DON'T fire him the first time he upsets you."

Anyone who TRULY loved Ana would tell her this....No well-respected coach would work for her right now because he/she wouldn't tolerate the bullcrap or the constant threat of firing whenever he/she disrupted Ana's personal routine.However,if she HONESTLY showed that she were ready to commit herself,then coaching Ana would be a dream job cuz her potential is immense and it'd be a joy to share in that success as she rose to the peak again.

gaviotabr
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:08 PM
^I think, or at least I am hoping they add Moscow or Linz to her schedule after Beijing. She added Moscow late last year so I am hoing she does so again this season. If not, that she is looking at a 3 month offseason. :help:

Can she play in Bali? I heard she would have to win a International tournament to qualify so I am kind of hoping she plays in Linz again this year. She has had a lot of success there and maybe she somehow wins it again and qualifies for Bali.

Ana can play Bali.. she has 2 options. She either has to win an International Event or be chosen by the tournament for a WC. She doesn't have any International on her schedule, so she would have to add one. Let's look at the WTA calendar:

08/23/2009 New Haven, CT-USA
Pilot Pen Tennis presented by Schick
Premier
Outdoors
Hard $600,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


08/31/2009 Flushing Meadows, NY-USA
US Open
Grand Slam
Outdoors
Hard $TBA Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


09/14/2009 Guangzhou, China
Guangzhou International Women's Open
International
Outdoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


09/14/2009 Quebec City, Canada
Bell Challenge
International
Indoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


09/21/2009 Seoul, South Korea
Hansol Korea Open
International
Outdoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


09/21/2009 Tashkent, Uzbekistan
Tashkent Open
International
Outdoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


09/27/2009 Tokyo, Japan
Toray Pan Pacific Open
Premier
Outdoors
Hard $2,000,000 Sgl 56
Dbl 16
Click Here


10/03/2009 Beijing, China
China Open
Premier
Outdoors
Hard $4,500,000 Sgl 60
Dbl 28
Click Here


10/12/2009 Linz, Austria
Generali Ladies Linz
International
Indoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


10/12/2009 Osaka, Japan
HP Open
International
Outdoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


10/19/2009 Moscow, Russia
Kremlin Cup
Premier
Indoors
Hard $1,000,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


10/19/2009 Luxembourg, Luxembourg
BGL Luxembourg Open
International
Indoors
Hard $220,000 Sgl 32
Dbl 16
Click Here


10/27/2009 Doha, Qatar
Sony Ericsson Championships - Doha 2009
Season-Ending Championships
Outdoors
Hard $4,500,000 Sgl 8
Dbl 4
Click Here


11/04/2009 Bali, Indonesia
Commonwealth Bank Tournament of Champions
Season-Ending Championships (International Series)
Indoors
Hard $600,000 Sgl 12
Click Here

Ana will play Toronto, USO, Tokyo, China Open. Those last two in consecutive weeks. Linz is just a week after the China Open, so adding it would be a bit tough on her. Being in Asia and all.. If she was to add an international event after the China Open, she should add Osaka, which is in Asia. Also, it's outdoors.. so she wouldn't have to get used to indoor conditions too fast. Logistically better. Moscow is just a week after that, and knowing Ana she would never schedule 4 tournaments in a row. So she would have to choose between Moscow and an International. The other option would be add an international tournament right after the USO. There is 2 weeks between the end of the USO and Tokyo. In the first week she has Quebec City and in the second Seoul or Tashkent as viable options. Chosing the latter, she would play 3 weeks in a row.. could rest a week and then play Moscow.

But really.. I think Ana wants vacations.. even if she is barely playing.. so with the tight schedule, I can only see her accepting a WC to Bali.. and that is if they decide to give her one. :shrug:

spiritedenergy
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:11 PM
LYCfEhmFzdE

She will never play like that anymore... those were bullets, Sharapova didn't know what hit her:tape::lol:

Retire In Peace:sobbing:

jonnyroyale_13
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:13 PM
I think Seoul would be a good option, as she will be already in the reagion.

gaviotabr
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:18 PM
LYCfEhmFzdE

She will never play like that anymore... those were bullets, Sharapova didn't know what hit her:tape::lol:

Retire In Peace:sobbing:

Oh RG 07! One of Ana's best serving tournaments.. also.. her forehand was amazing..

:sobbing:

It almost hurts to watch..

gaviotabr
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:20 PM
I think Seoul would be a good option, as she will be already in the reagion.

Yes.. I agree.. it would be a good option. I wonder if Ana's team even considers it though..

jelenacg
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:27 PM
LYCfEhmFzdE

She will never play like that anymore... those were bullets, Sharapova didn't know what hit her:tape::lol:

Retire In Peace:sobbing:

:lol::lol:
Sure she can ,you don`t forget something you have been doing your whole life
Ana should definitely add some tournaments 3 months is too much imo.But i don`t care about those tournamens really .I`m just waiting to see will she find someone that can help her fix that ball toss and serve bc if we see her with a bad ball toss next year in Brisbane we can say goodbye to 2010 :bigcry::bigcry:
Also it would be good if that someone makes things simple so no new tactics,changing things ,coming to the net... Just the basic things hit a good serve then a good FH and practice BH.

gaviotabr
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:31 PM
:lol::lol:
Sure she can ,you don`t forget something you have been doing your whole life
Ana should definitely add some tournaments 3 months is too much imo.But i don`t care about those tournamens really .I`m just waiting to see will she find someone that can help her fix that ball toss and serve bc if we see her with a bad ball toss next year in Brisbane we can say goodbye to 2010 :bigcry::bigcry:
Also it would be good if that someone makes things simple so no new tactics,changing things ,coming to the net... Just the basic things hit a good serve then a good FH and practice BH.

I agree Jelena. In her current state of confusion, they should be making things simple and easy for her. Just natural motions and one-two punches. All these motion changes will only add to her confusion and insecurity, besides desfiguring her game.

And yes.. the off-season and the new team will be key.

Curtos07
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:38 PM
I think Seoul would be a good option, as she will be already in the reagion.

I agree. I think it would be a winnable tournament for Ana. I don't know the entry list for it but I would assume the quality of players are not top notch. Then again, it seems like it really doesn't matter who Ana faces anymore. :sobbing: However, I get the feeling she will be resting in Mallorca at this time instead. :help:

jelenacg
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:45 PM
I agree. I think it would be a winnable tournament for Ana. I don't know the entry list for it but I would assume the quality of players are not top notch. Then again, it seems like it really doesn't matter who Ana faces anymore. :sobbing: However, I get the feeling she will be resting in Mallorca at this time instead. :help:

No she will be playing golf and surfing and that would be her preparation for AO regarding fitness :lol::lol:
:tape:

Curtos07
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:54 PM
No she will be playing golf and surfing and that would be her preparation for AO regarding fitness :lol::lol:
:tape:

:lol: :lol:

spiritedenergy
Aug 15th, 2009, 10:56 PM
No she will be playing golf and surfing and that would be her preparation for AO regarding fitness :lol::lol:
:tape:

:lol::tape::lol:

Mixo
Aug 15th, 2009, 11:29 PM
No she will be playing golf and surfing and that would be her preparation for AO regarding fitness :lol::lol:
:tape:

Well, in fact, surf would be too much during the off season. Im sure she will play golf to keep her fitness good and then, during the season she will only need to play matches and hit a lot of balls.


PS: If you want to see the dumbest phrase on the planet, check out the one about Rafa in bruce sign.


:smash: bruce

bruce goose
Aug 15th, 2009, 11:38 PM
PS: If you want to see the dumbest phrase on the planet, check out the one about Rafa in bruce sign.


:smash: bruceGlad you liked it,mi conquistador amigo:cool:.Since you mentioned it,if Mr.Shrinking Muscles weren't a totally worthless 'friend'(assuming that's all he is with Ana),then HE would tell her the truth,too....That she needs to get her s--t together.Nobody wants to be honest with Ana,it seems....That's some great group of 'friends' that she has:help:

Mixo
Aug 15th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Conquistador? Oh, yeah, I didnt remember you are the one who lives in 1492. Sorry, "mi indio reprimido a causa de los malvados españoles que solo nos trajeron enfermedades" I dont want to start a discussion in a place where people comes to have fun as we did a long time ago.

If you decide to come back to the 2000's I will gladly discuss with you about evrything you want. See you then!!

bruce goose
Aug 16th, 2009, 12:04 AM
Conquistador? Oh, yeah, I didnt remember you are the one who lives in 1492. Sorry, "mi indio reprimido a causa de los malvados españoles que solo nos trajeron enfermedades" I dont want to start a discussion in a place where people comes to have fun as we did a long time ago.

If you decide to come back to the 2000's I will gladly discuss with you about evrything you want. See you then!!:lol:Mixo,mi enojo no esta contigo en ninguna manera:hug:;unicamente no me gusta la gente--parasitos realmente--quien se aprovecha Ana,en particular Adidas y sus otros "amigos fieles"(su novio incluido).Perdoname,por favor,mi chiste 'conquistador':worship:

Mixo
Aug 16th, 2009, 12:16 AM
I dont like Adam and the adidas program either xDD But this is not my problem with you, although we are here to talk about our Ana, I want to say Rafa is a true champion and he deserves more respect. Thats all folk.

kenza
Aug 16th, 2009, 12:25 AM
Yes.. I agree.. it would be a good option. I wonder if Ana's team even considers it though..

I'm sorry if it will offend you, but please take this without fighting that might follow in your respond...
The thing you wrote in your signature RIP Ana Ivanovic is so innaproprate and gross.:eek::eek:
How ever you interprate it, it is just so gross.I'm offended and sad to look at it.

PS.Even if she is going through a tough phase it certanly doesn't mean she should retire and that champion is long gone.
Is she allowed to struggle like all people do in their jobs sometime or is she supposed to be women Roger Federer, spotless?Not every player is on the GOAT path, or next Serena Williams. So let the girl find her way through her current problems, she wants it the most.And she works for it.

Fans on the other hand are the ones that are supposed to be supportive, not the ones that dismiss you when rain comes.And on top of all your signature...is just over the line of good taste and clear head.

jonnyroyale_13
Aug 16th, 2009, 02:05 AM
I'm sorry if it will offend you, but please take this without fighting that might follow in your respond...
The thing you wrote in your signature RIP Ana Ivanovic is so innaproprate and gross.:eek::eek:
How ever you interprate it, it is just so gross.I'm offended and sad to look at it.

PS.Even if she is going through a tough phase it certanly doesn't mean she should retire and that champion is long gone.
Is she allowed to struggle like all people do in their jobs sometime or is she supposed to be women Roger Federer, spotless?Not every player is on the GOAT path, or next Serena Williams. So let the girl find her way through her current problems, she wants it the most.And she works for it.

Fans on the other hand are the ones that are supposed to be supportive, not the ones that dismiss you when rain comes.And on top of all your signature...is just over the line of good taste and clear head.

Theres no reason to single out one person. There are many that are using similar signatures/avatars at this time. As for your being offended, at sometime, nearly everyone has been offended by something they see on the forum, but generally dont make a deal of it, and just respect everyones right to use their spaces as they please.
One thing to consider, the regular posters of this forum are mostly WTA fans first, Ana Ivanovic fans second. That is one reason youll find more sarcasm around here then you would in Ana's own forum, where for the most part, the fans there are more Ivanovic fans first, and WTA fans second.
As for the RIP stuff, youve got it all wrong. It is because we are supportive that it started.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
Aug 16th, 2009, 02:17 AM
It doesn't happen often that Ana plays 3 tournaments in a row. So it's not like she's playing nothing.
And add MM to get confidence? She never reached a SF in Tier III, IV or International.
And I might be a weaker field? Sure, Czink will be first seed there.

gaviotabr
Aug 16th, 2009, 11:41 AM
I'm sorry if it will offend you, but please take this without fighting that might follow in your respond...


It's okay.. I'm not offended by your post. But I find funny that someone is questioning my support for Ana. Don't take things that seriously, it's just some avatars.

gaviotabr
Aug 16th, 2009, 02:51 PM
We are talking about adding tournaments.. but seeing and reading how Ana is.. maybe the best thing for her is really to get an extended break.. and only come back when she feels a strong desire to play again, an enjoyment of the game. :sad:

Illusionist
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:37 AM
pfffffff.. first of all, your avatars... I hate them.

second of all, I don't feel like she's hating to play... ok, she had some though losses, but she doesn't sound at pressers like someone who'd like not to play..

I think she needs the matches, so I hope she'll add some tournaments till the end of the year.

Just too much things happened and all coming one after another... About loss to Czink, I just think she was way too insecure in her serve. The worst moment to change the way of serving.
Dunno, it's really stupid to talk about anything when we didn't saw her match since Wimbly...

AstuteLearner8
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:42 AM
And the thing that drives me nuts is that Ana is a grand slam freaking champion, she won RG 2008 and now is losing to players like Czink, or Coin. It's just so depressing, because these players had never even gone past the second week of Grand Slams. Her game falling apart, is also depressing and when you win grand slams, your confidence and fearlessness is supposed to go up, not down. Let's start writing letter now! Even people who haven't won grand slams are still more feared than Ana nowadays. :sobbing:

jelenacg
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:49 AM
pfffffff.. first of all, your avatars... I hate them.

second of all, I don't feel like she's hating to play... ok, she had some though losses, but she doesn't sound at pressers like someone who'd like not to play..

I think she needs the matches, so I hope she'll add some tournaments till the end of the year.

Just too much things happened and all coming one after another... About loss to Czink, I just think she was way too insecure in her serve. The worst moment to change the way of serving.
Dunno, it's really stupid to talk about anything when we didn't saw her match since Wimbly...

You can blame Ana for that :p
I also don`t think she hates playing but she also doesn`t enjoy playing atm which is very understandable considering her results
It`s not really matter if she loses matches but how she was playing.And she played awful
I`m not surprised that her team/coach decided to change her serve in the middle of US open series just 2 weeks before US open :rolleyes: This decision is just as awful as every other they made this season :help::help:

gaviotabr
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:53 AM
You can blame Ana for that :p
I also don`t think she hates playing but she also doesn`t enjoy playing atm which is very understandable considering her results
It`s not really matter if she loses matches but how she was playing.And she played awful
I`m not surprised that her team/coach decided to change her serve in the middle of US open series just 2 weeks before US open :rolleyes: This decision is just as awful as every other they made this season :help::help:

Agreed Jelena. It doesn't surprise me either.. her team has made all the wrong decisions for more than a year now. It would be surprising if they picked right for a change. :rolleyes:

gaviotabr
Aug 17th, 2009, 03:04 AM
I was just now thinking..

Ana is butchering her serve.. so.. imagine if she keeps this new motion until the end of the year.. Then she gets a new full time coach, and he tells her that her old motion was better... she will have to work on it again like a new motion change. All the time and effort wasted.

Seriously.. I can't understand how the adidas coach came up with that.. Ana had a naturally beautiful service motion. Article in NY Times worthy one. That was never the problem with her serve.. it's the ball toss.. the ball TOSS! Until she gets that together, no service motion will be good.

jelenacg
Aug 17th, 2009, 03:11 AM
I was just now thinking..

Ana is butchering her serve.. so.. imagine if she keeps this new motion until the end of the year.. Then she gets a new full time coach, and he tells her that her old motion was better... she will have to work on it again like a new motion change. All the time and effort wasted. Seriously.. I can't understand how the adidas coach came up with that.. Ana had a naturally beautiful service motion. Article in NY Times worthy one. That was never the problem with her serve.. it's the ball toss.. the ball TOSS! Until she gets that together, no service motion will be good.

Well that would be just wonderful :worship::worship:
I actually can see that happening :o

bruce goose
Aug 17th, 2009, 04:27 PM
I was just now thinking..

Ana is butchering her serve.. so.. imagine if she keeps this new motion until the end of the year.. Then she gets a new full time coach, and he tells her that her old motion was better... she will have to work on it again like a new motion change. All the time and effort wasted.

Seriously.. I can't understand how the adidas coach came up with that.. Ana had a naturally beautiful service motion. Article in NY Times worthy one. That was never the problem with her serve.. it's the ball toss.. the ball TOSS! Until she gets that together, no service motion will be good.Regarding the possible 'family issue'--mentioned in the other thread--that conceivably could be distracting Ana,our Jelenacg would be more reliable in sifting through what might be happening back in Serbia...though aye CAN say that her current companions AND her family seem to be worthless as helpers.TRUE friends find a way to lift your spirits and motivate you even when times are tough...and they also stick by you and work with you to find a sOLUTION to those problems...NO ONE in Ana's circle seems to be doing that now...thanks for nothing,"friends(and bfs)":rolleyes:.Then again,how can we expect her parents to do very much when they let Ana drift through life without instilling any stabilizing,core values in her that MIGHT actually help her DEAL with trying times such as these?It's a little harder when you have to start from scratch at the age of 21,but she's still young,thank God

dybbuk
Aug 17th, 2009, 09:21 PM
I really wish you would stop trying to pin blame on her family, Bruce. We're not part of it, we know nothing about it, and it's not our right to criticise how they raised her. They supported her to a Slam title, and from every indication I have seen raised an intelligent, compassionate woman. They obviously love her, and I have nothing but respect for them.

bruce goose
Aug 17th, 2009, 09:28 PM
I really wish you would stop trying to pin blame on her family, Bruce. We're not part of it, we know nothing about it, and it's not our right to criticise how they raised her. They supported her to a Slam title, and from every indication I have seen raised an intelligent, compassionate woman. They obviously love her, and I have nothing but respect for them.The results speak for themselves;even more gentle posters can see that Ana is clueless right now...makes bad decisions on practically every issue...and seems to lack direction in her life.You simply don't ever see that with the WS or other players who had a strong foundation growing up....It's not a slam against sweet Ana;it's just an honest assessment of where she is and who brought her there.

cowking
Aug 20th, 2009, 04:41 AM
Another chapter in the chronicles of crapiness?

HowardH
Aug 20th, 2009, 10:10 AM
Ana, like Dinara, when left to her own devices seems to hit softer in order to try to avoid errors, but this reduces to a great degree the effectiveness of her game, since her big FH (and serve on good days) are the cornerstones of her game. From the accounts of the people who saw the match it seems Ana, after missing an easy shot while serving for the match, turned to her pusher mode and allowed Lucie to attack her.

I know Dinara also lost today, she is also something of a headcase, but at least her coach would come on and tell her, "can you be a bit smarter please, you cannot run all day, you have to hit this ball with full power, make her hit late, make her lose control." Of course this would be in between the 100 other things he says that you can never hear because he speaks so fast and English is not his first language :lol:.

Ana needs something like this. She needs to learn that even though in her mind she wants to defend, her game and her body will not allow this plan to be effective. She has to accept that her body is an attacker's body, powerful but not designed for defensive retrieving. Even though apparently she has a defender's brain...

Also this song was posted in Kiri's forum but I think it's kind of suitable for the way I feel about Ana right now :sobbing:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5CrqKQTgBY

jelenacg
Aug 20th, 2009, 10:32 AM
I wouldn`t compare Ana with Dinara .That would be insulting Dinara imo
With all do respect Dinara played like shit whole AO and made to the final and Ana played like shit and lost to Kleybanova :rolleyes:
So Ana playing like shit means losing in 1R,2R or 3r while Dinara playing like shit means losing badly in final or reaching SFs
Not really the same.Dinara is at least capable to fight and win against her own demons in early rounds Ana not so much :lol:

gaviotabr
Aug 20th, 2009, 10:49 AM
Actually, Ana did not go into pusher mode after missing that shot serving for the match. She was in pusher mode since the first point. The thing is, Safarova doesn't have a good return game and she was missing a lot in the first set and in the game she got broken in the second. After that she just stopped missing, and that was enough to beat Ana.

But yes.. Ana can't afford to be a pusher, she doesn't have the game to win matches like that. The thing is she lost all trust in her shots.. and when she does go for them, like that easy forehand at 5-4 30-30, she misses. Because that shot all she needed to do was roll the ball over, since Safarova was in the corner of the court, but she went for a big swing and hit the net.

Ana needs to learn to read the match, read the points. Her return was awful.. she was sending out 130 kmh second serves. And mostly, she needs to learn how to keep focused. She let's anything bother her. When she used her last challenge at 5-3 30-40* I started to panic. In the first point of the next game, when she was serving for the match, she had a first serve called out. She complained, talked to the umpire.. served again and lost the point. I think it started there. And then when she got broken, she just went away mentally. Nobody can afford to lose 7 games in a row in such situation. When she woke up, it was too late.. and when she had her chance there at 4-2 in the third, she hit a weak CC BH for Safarova to hit a winner from. Sure.. she could have used some luck there and the ball could have gone out or at the net for her to win the game. But Ana also has no suck luck. Against her people play great and don't choke.

jelenacg
Aug 20th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Actually, Ana did not go into pusher mode after missing that shot serving for the match. She was in pusher mode since the first point. The thing is, Safarova doesn't have a good return game and she was missing a lot in the first set and in the game she got broken in the second. After that she just stopped missing, and that was enough to beat Ana.

But yes.. Ana can't afford to be a pusher, she doesn't have the game to win matches like that. The thing is she lost all trust in her shots.. and when she does go for them, like that easy forehand at 5-4 30-30, she misses. Because that shot all she needed to do was roll the ball over, since Safarova was in the corner of the court, but she went for a big swing and hit the net.

Ana needs to learn to read the match, read the points. Her return was awful.. she was sending out 130 kmh second serves. And mostly, she needs to learn how to keep focused. She let's anything bother her. When she used her last challenge at 5-3 30-40* I started to panic. In the first point of the next game, when she was serving for the match, she had a first serve called out. She complained, talked to the umpire.. served again and lost the point. I think it started there. And then when she got broken, she just went away mentally. Nobody can afford to lose 7 games in a row in such situation. When she woke up, it was too late.. and when she had her chance there at 4-2 in the third, she hit a weak CC BH for Safarova to hit a winner from. Sure.. she could have used some luck there and the ball could have gone out or at the net for her to win the game. But Ana also has no suck luck. Against her people play great and don't choke.

I wouldn`t agree she had no luck in this match.Sometimes luck has to be earned ,something like champion`s luck
Besides Lucie played awful what else does Ana need?:tape:I`m pretty sure Ana would be able to lose serving for the match 5-0 40:0 against someone atm
When you don`t have confidence you just don`t have no matter of the score :sad:

gaviotabr
Aug 20th, 2009, 11:12 AM
I wouldn`t agree she had no luck in this match.Sometimes luck has to be earned ,something like champion`s luck
Besides Lucie played awful what else does Ana need?:tape:I`m pretty sure Ana would be able to lose serving for the match 5-0 40:0 against someone atm
When you don`t have confidence you just don`t have no matter of the score :sad:

Yes.. she has lost the belief.

But I do think Safarova was playing pretty well in the 2nd and 3rd sets. She was hitting super hard and not missing at all.

jelenacg
Aug 20th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Yes.. she has lost the belief.

But I do think Safarova was playing pretty well in the 2nd and 3rd sets. She was hitting super hard and not missing at all.

I didn`t watch the 3rd set but Ana was serving for the match in second so i wouldn`t say Safarova played good
But it doesn`t matter anymore ,they were both playing awful imo

bruce goose
Aug 20th, 2009, 02:18 PM
^^ To HowardH and Jelenacg for their posts....Izzy might be the better judge but you could argue that Ana is more talented than Dinara...and I'm not so sure that Dina is even mentally stronger despite the better results.The BIG difference in her game has been the support she gets from Zelko,Marat and even her folks learned the tennis parent game on the fly with Marat who's several years older.Now she chokes on occasion instead of constantly like before....Ana has NO ONE in her life who strengthens her:sad:...only people who do nothing whatsoever to help her...or they actually WEAKEN her by giving her advice on how to be a pusher:help:.Why should they care?As long as they can tickle Ana's ears and placate their endorsement queen,they don't care whether she wins or loses:sad::sad::sad:

HowardH
Aug 20th, 2009, 04:24 PM
Actually, Ana did not go into pusher mode after missing that shot serving for the match. She was in pusher mode since the first point.

I see. I didn't get to watch this match, and from what I was reading I thought maybe she became more defensive after that big point, but apparently Ana now plays all her points defensively. :help:

But yes.. Ana can't afford to be a pusher, she doesn't have the game to win matches like that. The thing is she lost all trust in her shots.. and when she does go for them, like that easy forehand at 5-4 30-30, she misses. Because that shot all she needed to do was roll the ball over, since Safarova was in the corner of the court, but she went for a big swing and hit the net.

Ana needs to learn to read the match, read the points.

Yes, she cannot defend all the time, she will lose. You are right, it is a lot to do with her trust in her shots. And she doesn't seem to understand how to read a point. She isn't actually thinking about point construction or anything like that. Her entire mind is focused only on her lack of confidence.

You know when someone is nervous? The first tendency is to hit very softly. A player can force themselves to swing hard with effort, but a forced swing is normally erratic. The best thing, and the hardest thing to do, is to still swing smoothly and normally when nervous.

This is probably why she missed that shot at 5-4. She was not thinking that Lucie is in the corner and all she needs to do is roll the ball to the other side. Instead, she is thinking "I must force myself to believe, I must go for the ball." In other words, she alternates between not going for shots at all, or forcing herself to go- at the wrong time. The focus on whether she can trust her shots or not distracts her completely from reading the point or match situation.

^^ To HowardH and Jelenacg for their posts....Izzy might be the better judge but you could argue that Ana is more talented than Dinara...and I'm not so sure that Dina is even mentally stronger despite the better results.The BIG difference in her game has been the support she gets from Zelko,Marat and even her folks:

Yes, I am also not sure Dina is mentally stronger. She has shown now in many finals that she has mental issues. But she is utilising a high percentage of her potential at the moment compared to Ana, and her mental issues are not enough to prevent her from reaching GS finals and semis. Dina has people around her who tell her that she must trust her shots, that she has to hit the ball hard. Despite this, she often starts pushing in matches, but of course she will get told off by Zheljko afterwards or even during the match. Krajan is willing to accept a complete lack of variety in Dina's game at the moment in order to get this message into her head- she must attack the ball. Sometimes it sounds strange, he tells her just to hit harder, harder, gameplan A is hard, gameplan B is harder. But at least the message is clear and simple, so hopefully Dina will not be confused.

Whereas Ana has had people work on giving her more variety etc. Which would be a great complement to her game if she had no tendency to become over defensive. But Ana does not have the understanding yet to work variety into her game without losing her main weapons. I believe Ana's parents support her well, and I have no issues with their upbringing of her, but maybe they do not understand tennis enough to realise that Ana has become too passive on court. However, telling Ana that is not their job, it is the coach's job. Ana's parents' job is just to love her, and I'm sure they do that. :awww:

gaviotabr
Aug 20th, 2009, 04:39 PM
I see. I didn't get to watch this match, and from what I was reading I thought maybe she became more defensive after that big point, but apparently Ana now plays all her points defensively. :help:

Yes, she cannot defend all the time, she will lose. You are right, it is a lot to do with her trust in her shots. And she doesn't seem to understand how to read a point. She isn't actually thinking about point construction or anything like that. Her entire mind is focused only on her lack of confidence.

You know when someone is nervous? The first tendency is to hit very softly. A player can force themselves to swing hard with effort, but a forced swing is normally erratic. The best thing, and the hardest thing to do, is to still swing smoothly and normally when nervous.

This is probably why she missed that shot at 5-4. She was not thinking that Lucie is in the corner and all she needs to do is roll the ball to the other side. Instead, she is thinking "I must force myself to believe, I must go for the ball." In other words, she alternates between not going for shots at all, or forcing herself to go- at the wrong time. The focus on whether she can trust her shots or not distracts her completely from reading the point or match situation.

Yes, Dina has people around her who tell her that she must trust her shots, that she has to hit the ball hard. Despite this, she often starts pushing in matches, but of course she will get told off by Zheljko afterwards or even during the match. Krajan is willing to accept a complete lack of variety in Dina's game at the moment in order to get this message into her head- she must attack the ball. Whereas Ana has had people work on giving her more variety etc. Which would be a great complement to her game if she had no tendency to become over defensive. But Ana does not have the understanding yet to work variety into her game without losing her main weapons. I believe Ana's parents support her well, and I have no issues with their upbringing of her, but maybe they do not understand tennis enough to realise that Ana has become too passive on court. However, telling Ana that is not their job, it is the coach's job. Ana's parents' job is just to love her, and I'm sure they do that. :awww:

I completely agree with the bold part. Actually.. seeing it made me think.. oh .. she just in the moment told herself she needed to commit to her shots, and that made her lose a split of a second, which as enough for her to hit it into the net. The thing is, Ana goes into court confused. She is not sure what she has to do.. so the overthinks what she has to do, and that's never good. And at any error she just loses any trust in her shots.

And one big problem is how she let's anything take her concentration away. She lost those 7 games in a row because she clearly had not let go of what had happened before. Also, she had no luck, as Lucie ripped some very flukey like return winners in a row.

bruce goose
Aug 20th, 2009, 04:53 PM
I believe Ana's parents support her well, and I have no issues with their upbringing of her, but maybe they do not understand tennis enough to realise that Ana has become too passive on court. However, telling Ana that is not their job, it is the coach's job. Ana's parents' job is just to love her, and I'm sure they do that. :awww:Yes,Howard,I may have been too vague before:Based on what we can see,I'd agree that Ana's folks love her at least,probably a lot...and it's not their job to give her specific tennis advice...though a simple,"Ana,you need a coach,dammit!" wouldn't be too hard if they showed some backbone.Rather,it seems that they spoiled her too much.She refuses any sort of firm coaching,preferring to do things HER way,and she's completely unequipped,emotionally and mentally,to deal with adversity and tough decisions...and that is a direct reflection of their teachings.......or lack thereof:help:.It might actually help Ana to talk with a former burnout who has found her way in adulthood.Such a woman could relate to Ana's struggles:sad:

gaviotabr
Sep 4th, 2009, 03:26 PM
BTW... this is not subject of this thread... but please quote any of my post here (or from GM) where I say something nice about Ana result in Cincinnati or at US Open or attack anybody for criticize her. But there is big difference between talking about big and deep crisis and slump, and for example talking about some 21 year old girl that she is over for (elite) tennis forever or overact on her career current big problems (when she needs IMO our biggest support than ever) with some actions like that "R.I.P." where You are so proudly IN - sorry, but for me that is disgusting, and simple wrong way.

I didn't say you were attacking anyone or saying good things about Ana's result. But a while back when I said that there was no reason to be positive, you tried to give all crazy stats arguments that there was. I was just wondering what you were thinking now. Quoting page 2 of the Cincinnati thread.

What I say here or don't say doesn't diminish my support for Ana. I support her all the time, and I'm here for the good and bad times. I'm still watching all of her matches, searching for news.. getting hurt when she loses. But unfortunately this is not a simple crisis or slump, this is it for Ana. A make or break moment in her career. And I just don't see how any of her attitudes and decisions will help her.. it's just getting worse.. and worse.. and worse. It doesn't matter if she is 21 or if she was 30. Reality would be the very same. When Ana gives me any reason to think that she can recover from this mess, I will be more than happy to change my avatar. I want to see her succeed as much or more than you. If she never comes back, I think I'll still be around, because I just have her in my heart already. But that doesn't change the fact that I'll be disappointed at her and upset to see such a great talent wasted. There was one thing that I've learned from this year.. things can always get worse. I thought nothing could surpass Ana's summer last year.. well, this year just did. I used to think there was just no way Ana could be like this forever, she has too much talent, ambition and drive. Now I just think the longer it takes, more damage is done to her competitor's heart and mind, and that might leave a scar that prevents her from reaching her potential again. Even more so as she seems resistent to look for any psychological help.

bruce goose
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:21 PM
What I say here or don't say doesn't diminish my support for Ana. I support her all the time, and I'm here for the good and bad times. I'm still watching all of her matches, searching for news.. getting hurt when she loses. But unfortunately this is not a simple crisis or slump, this is it for Ana. A make or break moment in her career. And I just don't see how any of her attitudes and decisions will help her.. it's just getting worse.. and worse.. and worse. It doesn't matter if she is 21 or if she was 30. Reality would be the very same. When Ana gives me any reason to think that she can recover from this mess, I will be more than happy to change my avatar. I want to see her succeed as much or more than you. If she never comes back, I think I'll still be around, because I just have her in my heart already.Izzy:hug::hug:Maybe I'm more guilty than most men of wanting to assert beliefs,but I've rarely wished that I was WRONG more than I did last year when I saw this tidal wave approaching.It didn't really bother me that folks thought I was overreacting or crazy for predicting this current state because I was more concerned with Ana's future than with other forum opinions.If she had excelled and made me look like a lunatic,that would've been AWESOME...but her ONLY period of quality tennis post-RG 2008 was Zurich-Linz...she gradually improved slightly just prior to that,and it's unfair to judge YEC cuz she couldn't even breathe freely with that stomach virus.I can't help thinking that Nando encouraged her to just go for her shots and do her best--even if it didn't bring top results.Her confidence was MUCH higher in that stretch and she actually resembled the 'old Ana' again.Though this ISN'T the root of all her problems,Ana's game disappeared when she kicked Nando to the curb.Then,there was NO ONE in her life to strengthen her(only parasites and weak individuals);Kardon TRIED to help her by getting her to seek counselling but she ignored him.She's been taught to just do whatever makes her feel good and pretend that problems don't exist whenever something bothers her:help:...and that made Kardon a villain for suggesting that Ana face up to her psyche issues.

Like you,Izzy,I'm frustrated and sad to witness such a profound waste of talent but,to steal your quote,Ana's found her place inside me and I'll still be here when she decides to torture us the rest of this year and in the ones to follow

Cp6uja
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Ana waste whole this 2009 season (and 2nd half of 2008) without any decent result which is follow her talent and potential, no doubt about that. But why I insist is fact that it's still not that tragic that we are even close for conclusion that Ana future seems already hopeless (if her/our goals are big titles, GS finals and TOP5) when she is just 21 year old girl without any serious career treating injury problem. She just need to do what she talking in her "annoying" interviews: to work hard, learn from mistakes and stays positive. If no results in 2010 again... maybe in 2011 or 2012 she will back, and we (supporters) should also be very patient.

For all who follow women's tennis I will just present list of all US Open 2009 seeded players (current WTA TOP32) older than Ana Ivanovic:

(1) Dinara Safina
(2) Serena Williams
(3) Venus Williams
(4) Elena Dementieva
(5) Jelena Jankovic
(6) Svetlana Kuznetsova
(7) Vera Zvonareva
(10) Flavia Pennetta
(13) Nadia Petrova
(14) Marion Bartoli
(15) Samantha Stosur
(16) Virginie Razzano
(17) Amelie Mauresmo
(18) Na Li
(19) Patty Schnyder
(20) Anabel Medina Garrigues
(21) Jie Zheng
(22) Daniela Hantuchova
(25) Kaia Kanepi
(26) Francesca Schiavone
(28) Sybille Bammer
(29) Maria Sharapova
(30) Alona Bondarenko

Except Anabel Medina ALL OF THEM (really all of them) after first period of some big career success have similar (or even worse) down and slump like Ana, when seems even more hopeless and without future than Ana seems now - but still backs very close (or even better) to theirs previous best levels! Almost all WTA Open Era GS champions faced with first big career crisis in early ages (before 24 for example) but only two (Tracy Austin and Iva Majoli) never comeback to TOP5 or slam finals after that! Maybe Ana will be 3rd exception... but it's still way to early to claim that. She will back... I hope already during first half of 2010...

maximelll
Sep 22nd, 2009, 07:12 PM
Except Anabel Medina ALL OF THEM (really all of them) after first period of some big career success have similar (or even worse) down and slump like Ana, when seems even more hopeless and without future than Ana seems now - but still backs very close (or even better) to theirs previous best levels! Almost all WTA Open Era GS champions faced with first big career crisis in early ages (before 24 for example) but only two (Tracy Austin and Iva Majoli) never comeback to TOP5 or slam finals after that! Maybe Ana will be 3rd exception... but it's still way to early to claim that. She will back... I hope already during first half of 2010...

she won't be the third exception. She is too good for that. She has what it takes, her grand slam win was not a surprise win, unlike Majoli and Austin. I dont think we can compare, she was already a finalist at the french open in 2007, a semifinalist in wimbledon 2007, finalist at the aussie open 2008... It was so not a surprise