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View Full Version : If ever evidence were needed of the Dire condition of Women's Tennis...


Steffica Greles
Jan 19th, 2009, 04:39 AM
Not only is a player of very slightly-above-ordinary abilities number one in the world, who two and a half years ago NOBODY would have predicted would even clip the top eight, but a 38 year-old out of the game for 12 years last season can push the 25th seed to 8-6 in the third.

Now, far be it from me to denigrate Kimiko Date (now Krum). She was an absolutely thrilling player to watch in the 1990s, and in my opinion, could have won a slam had she had a little bit more desire. She played beautiful tennis and was more talented than most. The best thing (sorry, Ai, sorry Li Na) to come out of the Far East by far. So credit to her.

But c'mon.

skanky~skanketta
Jan 19th, 2009, 04:55 AM
Well, nobody says anything when Mike Jordan comes out of retirement and still wins.

CJ07
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:44 AM
What are you talking about? They did comment how embarassing it was for the Wizards that their best player was 10 years older than everyone else. And besides, Jordan is one of the best of all time, Date didn't even win a GS during a period everyone likes to call an empty field with Graf and co.

It just proves to me that if Graf or Seles or Navratilova were fit and 5, 10 and 15 years younger respectively, they'd all easily be Top 5 if not higher.

And while we're talking about Nav, she took a top 10 player to 3 sets in her first tournament back at 47 :tape:

starin
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:47 AM
You know she also lost badly to Jill Craybas not that long ago.

Also we had this discussion when Hingis came back and "stormed" the tour, making the QF in her first slam back. But we all saw what happened after she had been on tour for awhile longer.

northern lad
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:48 AM
:yawn:

CJ07
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:56 AM
You know she also lost badly to Jill Craybas not that long ago.

Also we had this discussion when Hingis came back and "stormed" the tour, making the QF in her first slam back. But we all saw what happened after she had been on tour for awhile longer.
Hingis is in a completely different league than Date.

And frankly, Hingis's problems were more her fitness and her serve. It seemed to get worse as the year went on. When she first came back, she was hitting 110 MPH serves and then just stopped for some reason.

I have no doubt that a fit Hingis would be Top 10 easily and would be competitive with everyone around her. She'd be kind of like Seles post-stabbing. Always knocking at the door, just not getting through.

#1SteffiGraf#1
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:58 AM
Its 2009, age isnt what is use to be. Age is better now. Pretty soon 38 will be a spring chicken. :)

iGOAT
Jan 19th, 2009, 05:59 AM
Just quit complaining :rolleyes:

mckyle.
Jan 19th, 2009, 06:11 AM
Go watch ATP if you hate it so much. No one forces you to watch WTA.

Go retire again.

tennisbear7
Jan 19th, 2009, 06:14 AM
While the hell do you still post around here? I thought you retired from these forums. :help::yawn:

brent-o
Jan 19th, 2009, 06:17 AM
I think it says more about an exceptional player who refuses to let age trump her love of the game.

homogenius
Jan 19th, 2009, 06:18 AM
Maybe it's a sign : time to retire...again ?

fammmmedspin
Jan 19th, 2009, 06:40 AM
Hingis is in a completely different league than Date.

And frankly, Hingis's problems were more her fitness and her serve. It seemed to get worse as the year went on. When she first came back, she was hitting 110 MPH serves and then just stopped for some reason.

I have no doubt that a fit Hingis would be Top 10 easily and would be competitive with everyone around her. She'd be kind of like Seles post-stabbing. Always knocking at the door, just not getting through.

Might do even better as the people who troubled her are gone or injured - i would fancy her against most of the top 10 that actually play enough to get in her way up the rankings. JJ ? Ana? Vera? Dina on a bad day, let alone the youngsters who are inconsistent and have no idea of tactics or strateg ? Given all the people who can get to aGS final these days I wouldn't put that past her.

starin
Jan 19th, 2009, 07:38 AM
:shrug: watch Safina v. Kudryatseva and try and say the tour is not deeper. Kudyratseva is ranked 70 but on a good day she can hang w/ the top 10. that wasn't the case at all 10-15 years ago. I think there are a lot of big hitters out there and so there's more up and down results and a healthy mix of pushers floating to the top. But otherwise I'd say the tour is much deeper.

égalité
Jan 19th, 2009, 07:41 AM
There are plenty of retired ATP players who could come back and compete.

Anyway, the first 16 words of your post remove all credibility from the rest of the post.

pcrtennis
Jan 19th, 2009, 07:52 AM
i dont agree...she has world class talent...and that always means a lot...


these doomsday threads are so predictable and boring...STOP.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:10 AM
Sampras would be top 10 -15 (mugs like Simon , Blake and Verdasco are top 10 - 15) nowadays if he decides a comeback . I have seen matches of him in exhos (vs Federer , Rios) and I must say that the desvastanting serve and forehand are still there

Yes , I know we are talking about the best player ever , not comparable to Date , but the evidences exist

Optima
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Please leave already, you said you were earlier...now live up to your promise.

Sam L
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:14 AM
Kimiko Date is the greatest Asian tennis player ever. Period, end of.

Her feel for the game and understanding of it is unrivaled.

Sammm
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:39 AM
I agree with Manatee- when a player first makes a comback they're harder to beat. Kimiko has an unusual style that it would be difficult to play against. Once someone figures out what her main weakness is she'll be a lot easier to beat and won't thave that shock factor anymore.
Plus, there must be huge pressure on whoever's playing her - who wants to be known as the player who lost to a 38-year old?

Finally, I don't like all these disparaging comments. :sad:

Jakeev
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:56 AM
Frankly, these threads have become so tired that I can't understand why a veteran poster like the Steffica even bothers watching women's tennis anymore since nobody can seem to hold a candle to Graf and Seles.

That's not saying much for Kimiko who is from that generation. But like people have said, most on tour have no idea what Kimiko was and is capable of. So unless they do their homework, I will not be surprised if more like Kanapi will struggle against her in the future.

Patrick345
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:58 AM
How much better has women´s tennis really gotten in the last few years?

To be honest I don´t think the quality of tennis outside the top 6-7 is any good. I wonder whether the WTA should do an World tennis idol show. Sometimes it feels like you can take every girl off the street and train her to be top 100. :lol::lol:

iGOAT
Jan 19th, 2009, 08:59 AM
1) Kimiko is good :rolleyes:

2) Already a VERY similar thread

kittyking
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:01 AM
How much better has women´s tennis really gotten in the last few years?

To be honest I don´t think the quality of tennis outside the top 6-7 is any good. I wonder whether the WTA should do an World tennis idol show. Sometimes it feels like you can take every girl off the street and train her to be top 100. :lol::lol:

Are you a guy? If you are, I'd suggest that you walk around wearing a cup ;)

stevos
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:04 AM
Umm, didn't you LEAVE?
Could you please stay gone until you want to bring something positive to the forum?

Sorry, not buying your doomsday thread.

Timariot
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:19 AM
Well, nobody says anything when Mike Jordan comes out of retirement and still wins.

I did. NBA is highly overrated.

Timariot
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:24 AM
:shrug: watch Safina v. Kudryatseva and try and say the tour is not deeper.

On the other hand, 'deeper' does not equal 'better'. There were lots of talk about ATP being super-deep and competive in 1999/2000, when there was like 6 different #1 players in course of couple of years and how days of one player dominating the Tour were over.

Then came Federer...

TS
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:29 AM
Actually, "If ever evidence were needed of the Dire condition of Women's Tennis"... just watch the match between Dellacqua and Hantuchova right now.

Steffica Greles
Jan 19th, 2009, 12:29 PM
It just shows how dumb some of the people on this board are :lol:

I write about how a 38 year-old who's been out the game for over ten years nearly beating a top 30 player shows up the game for what it REALLY is, and people write back comparing her to Hingis, or Sampras. Much as Kimiko was a wonderful player, she had no more a remarkable career than any other top ten player of the time really.

And people use Kudrfjalkfjagwsgewgeawfseva vs Safina as an example of how the strength in depth has improved. Contrary to popular belief (that is, if you don't listen to commentators who are essentialy bound to promote the game to make their jobs worthwhile), lower-ranked players always beat top players. It was quite usual for between 4 and 8 of the top 16 seeds to not make the second week of a slam 15 years ago.

In c1986, there is footage on Youtube of Chris Evert saying 'players are so much better now, you can't win easy matches in early rounds'. Sound familiar? I remember reading an interview with Tauziat in 1996 saying the same thing. Graf was saying the same ten years ago. My point? All players like to believe that the reason for their struggles as they get older is because the standard has improved dramatically. If they feel they're declining in spite of their hard work, they might as well retire. So denial is the only way to continue.

Tell me, if every former top ten player under 45 came back and competed against top 30 players, would there be room for any of the current lot in the world rankings?

Hey, maybe there's an idea! :lol: