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View Full Version : Zina Garrison to sue USTA for discrmination


Yonexforever
Jan 12th, 2009, 02:41 PM
Well this comes as a surprise.. well almost.
I just assumed that she was stepping down because Venus and Serena just were not interested in a full commitment.
It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them.
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/61117

vwfan
Jan 12th, 2009, 03:10 PM
wow!:eek:

bye, bye Fed Cup for Serena and Venus. They will support Zina, no doubt.

Yonexforever
Jan 12th, 2009, 03:34 PM
I wonder if Mary Joe will continue to commentate?

serenafan08
Jan 12th, 2009, 03:39 PM
Oh wow! I will definitely be keeping an eye on this situation. It will be interesting to see everyone's reactions to this whole thing.

carling
Jan 12th, 2009, 03:50 PM
Well this comes as a surprise.. well almost.
I just assumed that she was stepping down because Venus and Serena just were not interested in a full commitment.
It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them.
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/61117

Wow! What ignorant, racist assumptions!. "It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them." Really? Did it ever occur to you that Venus and Serena actually wanted to play for their country just like their white counterparts? Isn't playing Fed Cup a prerequisite for representing your country in the Olympics, something they have always treasured?

It never ceases to amaze me how disgustingly unfair to the Williams sisters some people, are even after all they have accomplished and done for the popularity of the game. Stupid-ass posts by small minded people just sicken me.

V's a star
Jan 12th, 2009, 03:57 PM
wow jus proves wat has been thought about the USTA for many years. U go ZIna get all u can from them. Maybe now they will finally learn in the year 2009!

neorules
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:05 PM
I fail to see any hint of racism in this situation. Looks like a money grab situation to me. I wonder what "Settlement" Tom Gullickson got when he was replaced as Davis cup captain.

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:07 PM
wow jus proves wat has been thought about the USTA for many years. U go ZIna get all u can from them. Maybe now they will finally learn in the year 2009!

they won't. they'll probably settle, blacklist zina and keep it moving. do you know how many times USTA has been sued? this won't faze them.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:09 PM
I dont really know went down, but I cannot be completely on Zina's side.

Wasn't she not contacting higher ranked players for Fed Cup participation and retaining lower ranked players such as Vania (excuse me Vania, no intention to drag you into this)

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Wow! What ignorant, racist assumptions!. "It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them." Really? Did it ever occur to you that Venus and Serena actually wanted to play for their country just like their white counterparts? Isn't playing Fed Cup a prerequisite for representing your country in the Olympics, something they have always treasured?

It never ceases to amaze me how disgustingly unfair to the Williams sisters some people, are even after all they have accomplished and done for the popularity of the game. Stupid-ass posts by small minded people just sicken me.

:rolls: daft...she DID help sway them but it's not due to colour like you assume the OP meant..you bring in the race card for no reason...they love zina so they help support her for fed cup...and while it is a prerequisite to represent your country so that you can be chosen for olympics, you don't have to play a lot of ties...see maria who only played 1 tie in 4 years (??) and still got on the russian olympic team....

so really it is YOU and your daft racist assumptions :rolls: how ironic

supergrunt
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:35 PM
did she say how she thought it was racism?

darrinbaker00
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:37 PM
wow!:eek:

bye, bye Fed Cup for Serena and Venus. They will support Zina, no doubt.
Like they did by not playing for her during her last year as captain, perhaps?

Yonexforever
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:00 PM
I am staying faaar away from any racial issues surrounding this case.
I merely echoed as it turns out the exact same sentiment in the original article.
Rest assured Zina would still be on board if she had a full committment from the US No1 and No2 whomever that happen to be, and we had won the Fed Cup.

Im curious to know why she is suing for discrimination and NOT wrongful termination or breach of contract since they claimed they offered her other positions in the USTA.

Volcana
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Well this comes as a surprise.. well almost.
I just assumed that she was stepping down because Venus and Serena just were not interested in a full commitment.
It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them.If you're right about that (and I've seen no evidence of it) the USTA are the biggest bunch of fuckups this side of the WTA itself. Venus, especially, is quite close to BJK. Is the color of Garrison's skin supposed to trump that? I always thought they brought in Garrison because she was already an assistant on the team, so that when BJK was ready to leave, they preserved continuity.

I'll go one better though. If V&S think there's anything to this lawsuit, it's goint to increase their already diamond hard resistance to playing IW.

Tennisation
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Some ignorant people are so redicuous to quickly jump on the Zina bandwagon when the race card is played before even knowing what the discrimination situation really is. No where in the article did it mention anything about Zina's mistreatment as an African American. With such little information given out, how can anyone jump to conclusion and pick a side is beyond me.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Some ignorant people are so redicuous to quickly jump on the Zina bandwagon when the race card is played before even knowing what the discrimination situation really is. No where in the article did it mention anything about Zina's mistreatment as an African American. With such little information given out, how can anyone jump to conclusion and pick a side is beyond me.

you do realise no one in here played the race card right :scratch:

Yonexforever
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:22 PM
Some ignorant people are so redicuous to quickly jump on the Zina bandwagon when the race card is played before even knowing what the discrimination situation really is. No where in the article did it mention anything about Zina's mistreatment as an African American. With such little information given out, how can anyone jump to conclusion and pick a side is beyond me.

EXACTLY
:worship:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:22 PM
Interesting, I doubt Zina would sue just to make money she obviously has a legitimate case.

Ryan
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:23 PM
How is her being let go racism at all? :shrug: And suing for millions in backpay and damages?!?! Are you kidding me? This is absurd.

raquel
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:45 PM
Some ignorant people are so redicuous to quickly jump on the Zina bandwagon when the race card is played before even knowing what the discrimination situation really is. No where in the article did it mention anything about Zina's mistreatment as an African American. With such little information given out, how can anyone jump to conclusion and pick a side is beyond me.I agree. Obviously Zina thinks she has been dismissed unfairly but while she was captain the USA never won the Fed Cup and never made a final. If she was fired despite being contracted until 2010 or something, I could understand. Maybe she was, we don't know. What I'm surprised at is the millions in backpay and damages. The Fed Cup captain must be making a lot of money then. No final in 4 years, and they'll look elsewhere.

~{X}~
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:55 PM
I don't understand really why she is bringing charges? I thought she was pretty shitty as Fed Cup captian, clearly it seemed she didn't know how to bring in the top players and didn't know how to coach them well in situations, the results speak for themselves.

It shouldn't be a surprise then, that they were looking for a new person to replace her, and didn't she already know this a while ago? Why bring it up now, it was clear that they were looking possibly to replace her.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:57 PM
How is her being let go racism at all? :shrug: And suing for millions in backpay and damages?!?! Are you kidding me? This is absurd.

You don't know the full extent of the story, so how can you say it's absurd? The USTA has been accused of racism in the past, not to say Zina was actually discriminated against because I also do not know the full behind the scenes story but it's not impossible that she could've been discriminated against.

This will probably be settled out of court and swept under the rug though :tape:

young_gunner913
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:16 PM
wow!:eek:

bye, bye Fed Cup for Serena and Venus. They will support Zina, no doubt.

they didnt play Fed Cup last year with Zina as captain. and they've said that they arent really that interested in playing again. it's been bye bye since last year.

Dawn Marie
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:26 PM
I'm no tool. Past history has shown that the USTA is a RACIST piece of work. I've never heard anything bad about Zina. I'm going to use commen sense and say that Zina probably has a lawsuit and the USTA will give her a lump sum. This continuation of racism on the USTA will only have them under scrutiny, even more so than before. I don't think Zina is one to mess with.

Bijoux0021
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:42 PM
I don't understand really why she is bringing charges? I thought she was pretty shitty as Fed Cup captian, clearly it seemed she didn't know how to bring in the top players and didn't know how to coach them well in situations, the results speak for themselves.

It shouldn't be a surprise then, that they were looking for a new person to replace her, and didn't she already know this a while ago? Why bring it up now, it was clear that they were looking possibly to replace her.

If Zina was shitty as Fed Cup captain, it was mostly because she had shitty players. Besides Venus and Serena, which US "top players" did she have to work with? Lindsay was not available. Venus did the best she could even when she was exhausted. Serena was injured.

It's going to be the same scenario for Mary Jo as Fed Cup captain in the next few years. Do you believe she's going to do a much better job with the players she currently have, especially if Venus and Serena don't/can't play?

2Black
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Why were they in talks about a settlement if nothing happened. Something's up here that none of us know about.

Ryan
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:50 PM
You don't know the full extent of the story, so how can you say it's absurd? The USTA has been accused of racism in the past, not to say Zina was actually discriminated against because I also do not know the full behind the scenes story but it's not impossible that she could've been discriminated against.

This will probably be settled out of court and swept under the rug though :tape:



Because if an article is published, we are free to comment on it. I never said there wasn't more to the story, but I'm allowed to say that from what we know it is absurd that there is a lawsuit here.

Tennisation
Jan 12th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Why were they in talks about a settlement if nothing happened. Something's up here that none of us know about.where did you read that they were in talk of a settlement? If they were in talk of a settlement, Zina wouldn't be suing and the USTA wouldn't be saying they'll "vigorously contest"

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Well, I'll be very interested to hear the subsequent facts. Certainly, no one can argue her right to sue for "back pay." As to the other claims, :shrug: It was certainly clear to me that her dismissal was going to be an issue. Can't wait to hear the facts!

2Black
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:15 PM
where did you read that they were in talk of a settlement? If they were in talk of a settlement, Zina wouldn't be suing and the USTA wouldn't be saying they'll "vigorously contest"

The 1st paragraph says settlement talks broke down. Calm down. The point is there is obviously something going on that none of us know about.

doni1212
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:18 PM
wow!:eek:

bye, bye Fed Cup for Serena and Venus. They will support Zina, no doubt.

Yeah, I was just thinking that. They won't play under Fernandez and if they do, it'll be in 2011/2012 to make the Olympics if that rule still exists, :shrug:

Tennisation
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:25 PM
The 1st paragraph says settlement talks broke down. Calm down. The point is there is obviously something going on that none of us know about.the settlement talk was over her dismissal as Fed Cup's captian. It was NOT over "oh, give me this much money and I will shut up about your racist treatment." In your statement, you made it sound like there was a back door settlement in talk over her mistreatment that broke down.

tae04
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:39 PM
Sounds fishy to me. I don't think Zina will get much. I don't think she was fired due to her race. She would need to give some good evidence of her firing being due to race. Coaches get fired left and right in sports nowadays over results, its just the name of the game. Besides the results will hinge on whether the Williams participate anyway.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Because if an article is published, we are free to comment on it. I never said there wasn't more to the story, but I'm allowed to say that from what we know it is absurd that there is a lawsuit here.

So why not say "based on that article, it is absurd for her to sue"? Sounds less whimsical and accusatory that that way.

Uranium
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Zina shut up, you were a bad captain:o
1 final for USA is not good.

vwfan
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Some ignorant people are so redicuous to quickly jump on the Zina bandwagon when the race card is played before even knowing what the discrimination situation really is. No where in the article did it mention anything about Zina's mistreatment as an African American. With such little information given out, how can anyone jump to conclusion and pick a side is beyond me.Well, despite what many think it is actually a rare thing for someone experiencing discrimination to actually sue. Racist things happen day in and day out and you'd have to experience it to know what I'm talking about. Few people go running off to the courts every time someone does or says something racist. You'd never have a life.

Besides, it is a tough thing to do. No one likes a complainer. She is not going to risk her entire professional career and relationships, if there was not something serious going on. Not many people get thanked for standing up in the face of discrimination. BJK certainly didn't until years later.

Zina has street creds with me and probably has it with Venus and Serena, so I for one am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. And that has nothing to do with race.

hellas719
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Now Venus and Serena have a higher chance of not playing Fed Cup:sad:
Our team will probably be:
-Bethanie Mattek
-Liezel Huber
-Jill Craybas
-??????????????????

vwfan
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:19 PM
they didnt play Fed Cup last year with Zina as captain. and they've said that they arent really that interested in playing again. it's been bye bye since last year.Really! When did they say that? I missed that one.:confused:

I do, however, recall Venus and Serena explicitly saying that they both wanted to play Fed Cup to support Zina who has been a friend and a mentor. It doesn't mean that they didn't and wouldn't play for their country otherwise, but simply that they made a special effort to play more when Zina was captain. It also doesn't mean that they'd play every time. They don't even play the WTA tour that consistently.

2Black
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:25 PM
the settlement talk was over her dismissal as Fed Cup's captian. It was NOT over "oh, give me this much money and I will shut up about your racist treatment." In your statement, you made it sound like there was a back door settlement in talk over her mistreatment that broke down.

I didn't make it sound like anything. I simply stated what the article said - which is settlement talks broke down - and you jumped on my statement for some ODD reason. For the third time, there is obvious something going on here that NONE of us know about. Your passion on this is like damn!!!

vwfan
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Zina shut up, you were a bad captain:o
1 final for USA is not good.Zina can't make bricks from hay!

Unless you have Venus and Serena both playing, no country has a chance against the Russians who have the most depth of any country. The U.S. lost Cpariati, Davenport was ill for SF against Russia in 2005 and then pregnant. Who else from the U.S. other than these four can deliver against the other countries that have multiple top ten players? The others tried, but they were not going to be competitive against other country teams.

And Mary Jo is going to do what exactly better or differently than Zina? Give me a break. She played the hand she was dealt.:o

Uranium
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Zina can't make bricks from hay!

Unless you have Venus and Serena both playing, no country has a chance against the Russians who have the most depth of any country. The U.S. lost Cpariati, Davenport was ill for SF against Russia in 2005 and then pregnant. Who else from the U.S. other than these four can deliver against the other countries that have multiple top ten players? The others tried, but they were not going to be competitive against other country teams.

And Mary Jo is going to do what exactly better or differently than Zina? Give me a break. She played the hand she was dealt.:o

Yes, but she made some weird player selections in her time as captain, I think it was time for a captain change and I am glad it's MJF she has been assistant coach with Billie Jean and Zina.

G1Player2
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:32 PM
Yes, but she made some weird player selections in her time as captain, I think it was time for a captain change and I am glad it's MJF she has been assistant coach with Billie Jean and Zina.

Ummm, no she didn't. She picked the top ranked Americans at the time who weren't Venus or Serena.

vwfan
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Yes, but she made some weird player selections in her time as captain, I think it was time for a captain change and I am glad it's MJF she has been assistant coach with Billie Jean and Zina.ok. perhaps.

but you are missing my point. who was she going to play from the U.S. that would have matched up against the Russians, Belgium when Kim and Justine both played, France when Mary and Mauresmo played, etc.

I didn't follow it all that closely, but her best chance was when Venus and Davenport both committed in 2005, Linds then pulled out. :sad:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:41 PM
the settlement talk was over her dismissal as Fed Cup's captian. It was NOT over "oh, give me this much money and I will shut up about your racist treatment."

Actually, if they (as they say they were) were actually in "settlement" talks, money quite likely WAS a central issue. That is legally often times par for the course with an impending law suit. The disputing parties often negotiate BEFORE a suit has officially been filed. So yeah, it could have been very much "Oh, give me this much money and I will shut up about your racist treatment."

Uranium
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:46 PM
ok. perhaps.

but you are missing my point. who was she going to play from the U.S. that would have matched up against the Russians, Belgium when Kim and Justine both played, France when Mary and Mauresmo played, etc.

I didn't follow it all that closely, but her best chance was when Venus and Davenport both committed in 2005, Linds then pulled out. :sad:

Oh I understand, that's why I said yes, we never stood a chance. But I am saying I never really felt Zina was captain material to me, but that's only my opinion. The only match where I felt she actually coached a player to the win was Fed Cup 2006 ALG vs. Jamea Jackson.
I doubt the WS will stop playing, they played before Zina, and I am sure they'll play after Zina, since MJF has for the most part I think supported them.

carling
Jan 12th, 2009, 08:51 PM
:rolls: daft...she DID help sway them but it's not due to colour like you assume the OP meant..you bring in the race card for no reason...they love zina so they help support her for fed cup...and while it is a prerequisite to represent your country so that you can be chosen for olympics, you don't have to play a lot of ties...see maria who only played 1 tie in 4 years (??) and still got on the russian olympic team....

so really it is YOU and your daft racist assumptions :rolls: how ironic

The suggestion that Zina was the SOLE reason the Williams played Fed Cup is how the post read and what I took exception to.

So you can kiss my "daft" ass in the crack :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:04 PM
The suggestion that Zina was the SOLE reason the Williams played Fed Cup is how the post read and what I took exception to.

So you can kiss my "daft" ass in the crack :lol:

did i even respond to you??? :scratch:

CJ07
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Venus has definitely said she played the fed cup tie AFTER WIMBLEDON because Zina asked her to. She even took out the weave.

now thats dedication

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:14 PM
Venus has definitely said she played the fed cup tie AFTER WIMBLEDON because Zina asked her to. She even took out the weave.

now thats dedication


:lol:

pav
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:23 PM
Someone should sue old Zina for the way she used to receive serve :help:

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:38 PM
Now Venus and Serena have a higher chance of not playing Fed Cup:sad:
Our team will probably be:
-Bethanie Mattek
-Liezel Huber
-Jill Craybas
-??????????????????
Probably Vania King because she's had top 10 worthy doubles results (outside of the Slams) over the last six months. Lisa Raymond is probably done with Fed Cup after being screwed over by the USTA for the second time regarding Olympics selections, and I can't say that I blame her.

Bethanie Mattek is still injured, but she REALLY needs to recover in time. I love Julie Ditty, but God help us if Mary Joe Fernandez has to make that phone call to recruit her for the Fed Cup team.

Uranium
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I hope Shaughnessy, Beth, Jill and Liezel play.

Kipling
Jan 12th, 2009, 09:48 PM
Well, let's see...out goes Garrison, whose team never got past the SFs, and all of a sudden, the USTA discriminated against her? By replacing her with Fernandez. "Fernandez"....that's Norwegian, right? Or is it Dutch, or Anglo-Saxon, I'm not sure....

Give it a rest...

Lindsayfan32
Jan 12th, 2009, 10:03 PM
I wonder if Mary Joe will continue to commentate?

I hope so even though I only hear on matches I buy on DVD or ESPN might hire Lindsay to take over her commentating commitments. :)

darrinbaker00
Jan 12th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Well, let's see...out goes Garrison, whose team never got past the SFs, and all of a sudden, the USTA discriminated against her? By replacing her with Fernandez. "Fernandez"....that's Norwegian, right? Or is it Dutch, or Anglo-Saxon, I'm not sure....

Give it a rest...
1. She's married to a white guy.
2. She goes by the WASP-ish "Mary Joe" instead of her given name, María José.
3. Her family defected from Cuba in a 30-foot yacht instead of a raft.*

As you can see, Zina Garrison's firing was a result of pure, unadulterated racism.



*I made that one up. ;)

darrinbaker00
Jan 12th, 2009, 10:17 PM
I wonder if Mary Joe will continue to commentate?
Not during Fed Cup ties, no. :p

But semi-seriously, folks.....Davis Cup captain Patrick McEnroe continues to do it (as did his brother, Arthur Ashe and Tony Trabert), so why wouldn't Mary Joe?

markdelaney
Jan 12th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Zina Garrison has a history. She once accused Pam Shriver of being racist in 1993 for calling her "stupid"

BIRMINGHAM, England - An on-court flare-up between Pam Shriver and Zina Garrison-Jackson, which was followed by charges of racism, overshadowed their quarterfinal match at the Edgbaston tournament yesterday which Garrison-Jackson won 4-6, 6-3, 6-2.

During the match, played on an indoor court because rain made grass-court tennis unplayable, Shriver fired the ball at Garrison-Jackson and swore at her opponent's fans.

In the other quarterfinal matches in the DFS Classic, fifth-seeded Lori McNeil ousted third-seeded Nathalie Tauziat of France 6-4, 6-3; 17-year-old Chanda Rubin won 2-6, 7-5, 6-4 against Italy's Laura Golarsa and Larisa Neiland ended Australian qualifier Kristine Radford's run with a 6-3, 6-2 victory.

After her match, Garrison-Jackson still was fuming over her run-in with Shriver.

"She acted like a b - - - -. I couldn't believe that she didn't get a warning," Garrison-Jackson said.

The 29-year-old from Houston said that she was sure Shriver was "a good person at heart."

"But I heard some of the things she was saying about me, like calling me stupid," she said. "I would never say things like that about her."

Garrison, who is African-American, said she considered some of Shriver's actions and comments to be racist.

Shriver, who is white, denied that allegation.

"There are a lot of things about me, but I don't have a racist bone in my body. That hurts a little bit," Shriver said.

The 30-year-old from Baltimore said that she would apologize to Garrison-Jackson for her behavior on what she described as "not a good day."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930613&slug=1706171

Sally Struthers
Jan 12th, 2009, 11:15 PM
maybe she would have a stronger case if she actually led the team to a victory instead of a mediocre record. I'm not saying that she was not discriminated against, but her results are less than stellar.

Keadz
Jan 12th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Americans sue over anything.

AcesHigh
Jan 12th, 2009, 11:35 PM
Zina wasnt such an awful captain. She had absolute sh!t to work with. She was the only reason Venus played as much as she did. Vee has such a great relationship with BJK and Zina. I doubt the WS will play Fed Cup the next 3 years.

Anyway, good luck MJF.. you're REALLY REALLY need it.

sammy01
Jan 12th, 2009, 11:46 PM
she was made captain to help encourage venus and serena to play, because she obviously has respect from venus and serena and to win the fed cup. she was rather bad at both.
her losing her job was because she failed to deliver on these two things, not because of anything else.
right now im sure the USTA would love b j king to be captain, as venus and serena seem to have great respect for her. garrison wasn't made captain because she was black and could sway venus and serena to play because of colour, she was looked at as someone the williams respected and hoped she would be able to garner full commitment and participation from them, the same way king would be expected to do the same thing if she were made captain now.
she was dismissed because of lack of results, which is life, she needs to get over being fired and realise she didn't deliver and wasn't discriminated against.

AcesHigh
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:01 AM
I'll say it again... how is she supposed to win without Venus and Serena? She did a great job with what she had.

sammy01
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:10 AM
I'll say it again... how is she supposed to win without Venus and Serena? She did a great job with what she had.

part of her job is to get the #1 and #2 ranked americans to play. lets face it venus played a bit and serena went M.I.A for most of garrisons captaincy.

AcesHigh
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:15 AM
part of her job is to get the #1 and #2 ranked americans to play. lets face it venus played a bit and serena went M.I.A for most of garrisons captaincy.

So if MJF can't get Venus and Serena, should she be fired? Just checking.
And Venus played 5 of the 10 ties... Serena about 3 and Davenport about 2 or 3

vwfan
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:18 AM
part of her job is to get the #1 and #2 ranked americans to play. lets face it venus played a bit and serena went M.I.A for most of garrisons captaincy.then mary joe should quit now or file her discrimination suit right away.

finally, she did have the commitment for Venus and Serena. They can't play if they are injured. I remember Serena pulled out one time because of her ankle.

vwfan
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:20 AM
So if MJF can't get Venus and Serena, should she be fired? Just checking.
And Venus played 5 of the 10 ties... Serena about 3 and Davenport about 2 or 3these people are:rolleyes:

the USTA should be responsible for the sorry state of U.S. tennis. it's not just on the female side either.

give me a break. like I said, Zina can't make bricks from hay. so let mary joe or maria jose try. :lol:

Russia has completely dominated fed cup. Why? They have a stronger bench that is not reliant on only two top players. They won fed cup in: 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008. They lost in 2006 and Italy surprisingly beat Belgium in the final. Kim didn't play and Justine tried to win it all by herself and ended up retiring in the doubles rubber.

Give me a break. Russia is always going to have an advantage in any fed cup competition as measured by their total dominance in the past five years.

Last time U.S. won 2000 and they played the final with Lindsay, Monica Seles, and Jennifer Capriati. They won without Venus and Serena because in 2000 they had bench strength. Not the case now. :tape:


Good luck Mary Joe, you'll need it.

sammy01
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:26 AM
well MJF is totaly up against it, she has to somehow try and get the american #1 and #2 to play. forget its venus and serena, because surely any fed cup captains job is to get the 2 best players the country has to play for them, if they don't there not doing their job properly.

as for how many ties v & s played under garrison it simply wasn't enough, to either win or keep garrison her job.

the uk has the same issue in the captain has to get murray to play even though he has to carry the team and they are in a division nowhere near his standards. if the captain can't get murray to play he aint doing his job.

Uranium
Jan 13th, 2009, 01:02 AM
MJF will announce her team 10 days before the tie, so during the Australian Open.
Venus has said already no because it isn't in her "plan", but MJF will try again during the AO and she is in the works of getting Serena. Really against Argentina we don't need the WS, we just need a good B-Squad.:shrug:

Ryan
Jan 13th, 2009, 02:43 AM
So if MJF can't get Venus and Serena, should she be fired? Just checking.
And Venus played 5 of the 10 ties... Serena about 3 and Davenport about 2 or 3



After awhile, I believe so. Unless she somehow turns the B-squad into a consistent, high-performing team that can win a title. I think being the US Fed Cup Captain is a tough job right now, and has been for some years, because they really rely on Venus and Serena for every tie. A coach's job is to get them dedicated and committed to play - if they don't, they get fired. Not saying that's why Zina got fired, but it probably had something to do with it. Don't the coaches usually get fired every 5-6 years anyway it seems? :o

Anyway: where's the BEEF. Show people discrimination, and then we'll buy it.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2009, 02:51 AM
So if MJF can't get Venus and Serena, should she be fired? Just checking.
And Venus played 5 of the 10 ties... Serena about 3 and Davenport about 2 or 3
If she doesn't win, yes.

yukon145
Jan 13th, 2009, 03:23 AM
Well, let's see...out goes Garrison, whose team never got past the SFs, and all of a sudden, the USTA discriminated against her? By replacing her with Fernandez. "Fernandez"....that's Norwegian, right? Or is it Dutch, or Anglo-Saxon, I'm not sure....

Give it a rest...

my thoughts exactly.

Wolverines08
Jan 13th, 2009, 03:23 AM
I wonder how Venus & Ree will feel being coached by Mary Joe lol...not to take anything away from her because she had a good career but it has to make you think.I think MJF would be intimidated to say 1/2 of the things she may say in the booth to them.

vwfan
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:34 AM
I wonder how Venus & Ree will feel being coached by Mary Joe lol...not to take anything away from her because she had a good career but it has to make you think.I think MJF would be intimidated to say 1/2 of the things she may say in the booth to them.never thought about it that way. what is Mary Jo going to tell Venus and Serena about how to play tennis.

Funny, really! :lol:

killercars
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:41 AM
Zina is so pathetic. She was the Fed Cup coach for 5 years. That's a long time in tennis years, especially for someone with a poor track record. Sure, the depth of the US team wasn't great, but it never seemed like Zina was that active in recruiting players. Who can forget the minor controversy when she didn't even consider Meilen Tu for a spot on the team when she was the highest ranking available US player and was only forced to give her a spot after public outcry. Now, Zina can't accept the fact that coaching changes occur in all sports and is going to play the race card? Come on. She has a history of severe emotional problems, is about 80 lbs overweight (not an exaggeration), and even tried to kill herself at some point. She needs to accept that coaching changes are natural and just move on. That's life---not racism.

CrossCourt~Rally
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:45 AM
I'm going to wait until the facts come out before officialy commenting on this one. But, as of now...the way i see it is that the US team has been sub par every year Zina has been coaching. Just like in any other sport, the coach is always the first to blame ( rightly or wrongly ) and the first to go. :)

drake3781
Jan 13th, 2009, 04:47 AM
I'm waiting to hear about the discrimination.

Meanwhile, paying my expensive USTA dues.

This money is supposed to go toward supporting programs for adults and children. Is she really going to either force USTA to pay attorney fees, pay her a settlement, or try to win money in a lawsuit?


USTA is a non-profit organization.

I understand trying to get what you can financially from playing, but to take it from the tennis playing US public ?


IF she were truly wronged, I can see making the issues public so that they can be fixed for the future. But first of all, how was she wronged? And she wants our money?

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:12 AM
I'm waiting to hear about the discrimination.

Meanwhile, paying my expensive USTA dues.

This money is supposed to go toward supporting programs for adults and children. Is she really going to either force USTA to pay attorney fees, pay her a settlement, or try to win money in a lawsuit?


USTA is a non-profit organization.

I understand trying to get what you can financially from playing, but to take it from the tennis playing US public ?


IF she were truly wronged, I can see making the issues public so that they can be fixed for the future. But first of all, how was she wronged? And she wants our money?

Forty dollars a year is expensive? Come on, now.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:16 AM
I'm waiting to hear about the discrimination.

Meanwhile, paying my expensive USTA dues.

This money is supposed to go toward supporting programs for adults and children. Is she really going to either force USTA to pay attorney fees, pay her a settlement, or try to win money in a lawsuit?


USTA is a non-profit organization.

I understand trying to get what you can financially from playing, but to take it from the tennis playing US public ?


IF she were truly wronged, I can see making the issues public so that they can be fixed for the future. But first of all, how was she wronged? And she wants our money?

Save the banter, didn't that article say the US Open ALONE grosses over 200 million? Do you really think all that money goes to non-profit programs etc? pfft

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:18 AM
never thought about it that way. what is Mary Jo going to tell Venus and Serena about how to play tennis.

Funny, really! :lol:
What's so funny about that? Mary Joe has more experience than the Williams sisters. They would be foolish not to take sound advice from anybody.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:20 AM
Save the banter, didn't that article say the US Open ALONE grosses over 200 million? Do you really think all that money goes to non-profit programs etc? pfft
That same article also says that the USTA owns the US Open. Don't you think they determine where that money goes?

tennisbum79
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:23 AM
I agree there is probably more to the story.
However, I do not think Garrison was a good coach.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:24 AM
What's so funny about that? Mary Joe has more experience than the Williams sisters. They would be foolish not to take sound advice from anybody.

I agree about being foolish to not listen to sound advice, but not sure she has more experience than V&S when it comes to playing elite level tennis. They've been top players a lot longer than she ever was and have accomplished more in two seasons of their repsective careers than she ever did. Not to take anything away from MJF cause she was a great player in her own right.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:32 AM
I agree about being foolish to not listen to sound advice, but not sure she has more experience than V&S when it comes to playing elite level tennis. They've been top players a lot longer than she ever was and have accomplished more in two seasons of their repsective careers than she ever did. Not to take anything away from MJF cause she was a great player in her own right.
That doesn't mean that they can't learn anything from Mary Joe Fernandez or anyone else. By that line of reasoning, all the kids at the Bollettieri Academy should leave there and go to the Evert Academy.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:50 AM
all the kids at the Bollettieri Academy should leave there and go to the Evert Academy.

Yes!!! I've been saying this for years! :worship:

faboozadoo15
Jan 13th, 2009, 07:15 AM
Forty dollars a year is expensive? Come on, now.

Would be for a family...
And tournament fees have more than doubled in the last 5 years.

markdelaney
Jan 13th, 2009, 08:29 AM
I agree about being foolish to not listen to sound advice, but not sure she has more experience than V&S when it comes to playing elite level tennis. They've been top players a lot longer than she ever was and have accomplished more in two seasons of their repsective careers than she ever did. Not to take anything away from MJF cause she was a great player in her own right.

Mary Joe achieved tremendous results, considering her game, to get to the top 4 and reach grand slam finals. Her biggest achievements were reached by her level of concentration, motivation and attitude on court. A never say die player who often turned sure defeat into victory by playing a point at a time.
This kind of player can offer a lot to anybody. She certainly isn't going to teach Venus or Serena better tennis but if either had reached their full potential they would have won 20 slams by now. Mary Joe rarely ever made an unforced error and hit the ball pretty hard.

vwfan
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:33 PM
I'm going to wait until the facts come out before officialy commenting on this one. But, as of now...the way i see it is that the US team has been sub par every year Zina has been coaching. Just like in any other sport, the coach is always the first to blame ( rightly or wrongly ) and the first to go. :)her tenure paralleled the rise in Russian tennis. What's so difficult to understand here???? :tape:

If that is the case, fire all fed coach captains everywhere except those resident in Russia!

vwfan
Jan 13th, 2009, 12:38 PM
What's so funny about that? Mary Joe has more experience than the Williams sisters. They would be foolish not to take sound advice from anybody.Well, I don't know about Mary Joe having more experience. But yeah take good advice, like:

Serena, please get fit and get some of that weight off. Oh and please with the on-court antics. Less attractive when you are no longer a teenager and instead a 9 time Grand Slam champion.

Venus, please improve that second serve and get some help sustaining concentration throughout an entire match (end the walkabouts, now!)

Wow, I should be fed coach captain.

tnnstalkr
Jan 13th, 2009, 01:18 PM
Wow! What ignorant, racist assumptions!. "It was clear to me she was brought in to help in swaying them." Really? Did it ever occur to you that Venus and Serena actually wanted to play for their country just like their white counterparts? Isn't playing Fed Cup a prerequisite for representing your country in the Olympics, something they have always treasured?

It never ceases to amaze me how disgustingly unfair to the Williams sisters some people, are even after all they have accomplished and done for the popularity of the game. Stupid-ass posts by small minded people just sicken me.

Spin doctoring like yours can also "sicken" at times.

Yonexforever
Jan 13th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Mary Joe achieved tremendous results, considering her game, to get to the top 4 and reach grand slam finals. Her biggest achievements were reached by her level of concentration, motivation and attitude on court. A never say die player who often turned sure defeat into victory by playing a point at a time.
This kind of player can offer a lot to anybody. She certainly isn't going to teach Venus or Serena better tennis but if either had reached their full potential they would have won 20 slams by now. Mary Joe rarely ever made an unforced error and hit the ball pretty hard.


I hate to go here but i must.. I remember MJF VERY well as a player.. she was a poor imitation of Chrissie and then Tracy.. hell even Jeager(sp).
I remember all my friends referring to her style as pity pat tennis.
She was not very athletic or fast, just a good retriever who would get over powered even then on harder courts!!!
All that has nothing to do with her potential merits as Fed Cup, but lets not get it twisted she maximized her meager talents.
I wish her wll.. I bet she wished Linds hadnt gotten knocked up a second time though!!

youizahoe
Jan 13th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Would be for a family...
And tournament fees have more than doubled in the last 5 years.

In europe it's double everywhere. And in euros.

markdelaney
Jan 13th, 2009, 08:36 PM
I hate to go here but i must.. I remember MJF VERY well as a player.. she was a poor imitation of Chrissie and then Tracy.. hell even Jeager(sp).
I remember all my friends referring to her style as pity pat tennis.
She was not very athletic or fast, just a good retriever who would get over powered even then on harder courts!!!
All that has nothing to do with her potential merits as Fed Cup, but lets not get it twisted she maximized her meager talents.
I wish her wll.. I bet she wished Linds hadnt gotten knocked up a second time though!!


So she wasn't athletic, she wasn't fast and had meagre talents but she still managed to make 3 grand slam finals, 9 semi finals (including all 4 of the slams) and 17 quarter finals. That's telling you that despite not being the most talented player she had a very high level of mental ability to achieve those career stats and surely could encourage any player, especially if Serena and Venus won't play.

raquel
Jan 13th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Zina Garrison has a history. She once accused Pam Shriver of being racist in 1993 for calling her "stupid"


I remember reading something about this and I know Pam was totally shocked when she got into the press conference and someone mentioned Zina had been in before and mentioned racism. Pam said something like, yeah I'm a bitch sometimes, but I'm bitch to everyone :p If the most Zina could accuse Pam of is calling her stupid, then I'm not surprised Pam was wondering where the racism necessarily was.

I do hope Zina can get some kind of good outcome from this though. She has a lot of great experience that could be put to good use in USTA coaching systems.

DA FOREHAND
Jan 13th, 2009, 11:15 PM
Why were they in talks about a settlement if nothing happened. Something's up here that none of us know about.

something is fishy about this story. Settlement talks break down, but on the other hand they say they will vigorously defend themselves.....:wavey:

if Zina thinks she was discriminated against should she be in settlement talks? :wavey:

I'm gonna reserve judgement until the details are released.

faboozadoo15
Jan 13th, 2009, 11:24 PM
Zina wasn't a terrible coach.
It's slim pickings for whomever is to lead Fed Cup these days.
Until that improves, USA won't be winning the Cup.

That said, I don't really think Garrison has that much to offer anyone. USA tennis will be taken much more seriously with MJF as captain. I think MJF has much better insight into the game and is in closer contact with the vast majority of the players. She's also a much better scout of other players on tour.

Plus, Zina is way overweight and has maybe the most annoying voice I've ever heard from a commentator.

I wonder if Chanda will ever be interested in being captain.

darrinbaker00
Jan 14th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Zina wasn't a terrible coach.
It's slim pickings for whomever is to lead Fed Cup these days.
Until that improves, USA won't be winning the Cup.

That said, I don't really think Garrison has that much to offer anyone. USA tennis will be taken much more seriously with MJF as captain. I think MJF has much better insight into the game and is in closer contact with the vast majority of the players. She's also a much better scout of other players on tour.

Plus, Zina is way overweight and has maybe the most annoying voice I've ever heard from a commentator.

I wonder if Chanda will ever be interested in being captain.
Even if Zina Garrison wasn't a recovering bulimic, that was Unnecessary with a capital U.

vwfan
Jan 14th, 2009, 03:42 PM
Even if Zina Garrison wasn't a recovering bulimic, that was Unnecessary with a capital U.
Mary Jo is prettier, therefore a better coach. :rolleyes:

Again, Zina gets the benefit of any doubt with me. I don't think she would throw away her career and credibility unless she really beleived that she was treated unfairly.

Vlover
Jan 14th, 2009, 04:58 PM
[QUOTE]Zina wasn't a terrible coach.
It's slim pickings for whomever is to lead Fed Cup these days.
Until that improves, USA won't be winning the Cup.

You made good comments here, then you contradict yourself below.:confused:
I think MJF has much better insight into the game and is in closer contact with the vast majority of the players.

Where is that vast majority of good US players that MJ is going to contact? Maybe she intends to convince Maria to apply for citizenship.:rolleyes:

Morrissey
Jan 14th, 2009, 05:48 PM
I Can't believe I am saying this but I agree with Darrin it was uncalled for to talk about Zina's weight. Everyone knows about Zina's history with bulimia she has written about her struggles with her weight. I think that's really uncalled for.