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View Full Version : Is Jelena Dokic the best serbian ever?


SV_Fan
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Is she better than Ivanovic, and Jankovic?

I actually think she is better in many ways.

Uranium
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Well she isn't Serbian now, but she has beaten Hingis, Venus, Clijsters and other top players, so I would say yes:)

Medina
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:31 PM
^^

And did Jankovic/Ivanovic have the chance to actualy verse those players?

The active player there on your list would Be Venus.. Both have been defeated by the Serbian Duo

so the answer to your question is a simple: No

Zhao
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:32 PM
her ground strokes and overall game is just :worship:
she's just unlucky.. just like Mirjana Lucic :sad:

Callum
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:35 PM
No, not at all really.

Ana has a GS, and Jelena is world number one!

ZeroSOFInfinity
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:45 PM
Wait until Dokic wins a GS and/or reaches #1, then you BUMP this thread again.

:tape:

Serenita
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:46 PM
yes

igost
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Even though she is one of my faves, I have to say no
Brain counts, and she doesn't have much in this department

hingis-seles
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Seles is now counted amongst the Serbian players, so I'm assuming she trumps all of them? :shrug:

cn ireland
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Even as a Dokic fan I'd have to say no as Ana has won a GS and been #1 and JJ is #1 and been to a GS final.

She's definitely in 3rd place though:D!

darkchild
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Hell no, Monica Seles is.

Miss Amor
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Seles > Ana> Dokic > Jelena

youizahoe
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:17 PM
I would rate Dokic before Ana. Dokic just had a better game and would have been better if she didn't have these personal issues to bother her.

Shvedbarilescu
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:52 PM
No. Jankovic and Ivanovic are clearly very substantially ahead of Dokic. If one wants to count Seles as a Serb then obviously she is substantially ahead of Jankovic and Ivanovic.

To be honest, I am surprised anyone is taking this question seriously.

Adal
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:54 PM
She isn't.

OZTENNIS
Oct 18th, 2008, 04:04 PM
She isn't even Serbian and spent most of her formative development years in Australia, so no

Kipling
Oct 18th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Is this thread for real?

The only thing she has an edge in is 'tits'.

Apoleb
Oct 18th, 2008, 04:35 PM
ROFL. No. She's a joke.

Dawn Marie
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Monica Seles, anyone?

SV_Fan
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:17 PM
I find it sad that Ivanovic and Jankovic refuse to give credit to Dokic.

Farina Elia Fan
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:19 PM
stupid question!

NO

ZeroSOFInfinity
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I find it sad that Ivanovic and Jankovic refuse to give credit to Dokic.

I find it sad that you ever started this thread. :tape:

MaBaker
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:20 PM
No, Ana Timotic is.

Shvedbarilescu
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:28 PM
No, Ana Timotic is.

:lol:

And that is the seriousness that this thread deserves to be given. :yeah:

tennisbum79
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:36 PM
No.
Ana has major and been a runner-up.
But Dokic has the best chest, not just from Serbia, but in all women tennis

MagicMilan
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Seles > Ana> Dokic > Jelena
At last, a solid proof that your posts are crap :worship:

KournikovaFan91
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:41 PM
I find it sad that Ivanovic and Jankovic refuse to give credit to Dokic.

i think they are being a bit childish about that. Dokic was most successful when she played as YUG. Also Monica defected so why do they respect her. :o

I think she should play for SRB cause she would probably get to play Fed Cup then

Nikkiri
Oct 18th, 2008, 05:44 PM
No.

Sarac
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:08 PM
She isn't even Serbian and spent most of her formative development years in Australia, so no

Are you sure? :rolleyes:

Danči Dementia
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Is Dokic still Serbian?? :o :

Dennis^^
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Hell no!

Patrick345
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:40 PM
This can only be decided by hard evidence, I would sacrifice myself for science and line up Seles, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Dokic and Lucic to suck....

:devil:

Kworb
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:49 PM
They're about equal. Dokic didn't achieve as much but she had much better competition.

JAMESYBABY!
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:52 PM
nope not at all!

JAMESYBABY!
Oct 18th, 2008, 06:52 PM
nope not at all!

SV_Fan
Oct 18th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Yugoslavia is serbia isnt it?

WHo does she play for now.

SV_Fan
Oct 18th, 2008, 07:35 PM
So do you feel that Lucia and Dokic started the revolution?

babuska6
Oct 18th, 2008, 07:45 PM
No.:rolleyes: Ivanovic and Jankovic are much better.

KournikovaFan91
Oct 18th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Dokic did play much harder opponents back at the start of the millenuim

i reckon the Dokic of 00 could beat Ana or Jelena of today, everyone should admit that the standard in the WTA has declined since Dokic played

supergrunt
Oct 18th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Didn't Dokic beat Henin as well?

incognito
Oct 18th, 2008, 09:02 PM
Even if she were to be considered a Serbian player, her talent and achievements put her way behind both Ivanovic and Jankovic, no serious person would even suggest something like that. She was/is a typical brainless ball basher with a hit-and-miss game, an unreliable serve, no huge weapons off the ground and no spectacular defensive capabilities to make up for her lack of a killer shot. She has made the most of her talent though reaching one GS semifinal and two QF's during her whole career...

People complain about Jankovic playing a lot, well, Dokic was a champion of playing lots of tournaments in her days, however as soon as she came up against another top 10 player she fell flat (with a few exceptions). Her record against other top 10 players was abysmal, but she made up for it by relatively consistently beating lower ranked players though she also had quite a few 1st round exits (which she made up for by playing more tournaments)...

Lunaris
Oct 18th, 2008, 09:10 PM
Is she better than Ivanovic, and Jankovic?

I actually think she is better in many ways.
Well she isn't Serbian now, but she has beaten Hingis, Venus, Clijsters and other top players, so I would say yes:)
yes
Seles > Ana> Dokic > Jelena
If anyone ever doubted that the Williams sisters fans were all smart and easy going guys with a vast tennis knowledge. Here is the proof that they are. :D

Optima
Oct 18th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Not even close.

incognito
Oct 18th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Dokic did play much harder opponents back at the start of the millenuim

i reckon the Dokic of 00 could beat Ana or Jelena of today, everyone should admit that the standard in the WTA has declined since Dokic played
She played the whole of fall 2001 as one of the few active top 10 players since all US players (Williams sisters, Capriati, Davenport, etc) stayed at home that fall because of 9/11. She did beat Mauresmo in the Rome final that year but it turned out that this was the start of a slump for Mauresmo who had a great first half of the 2001 season but a not so great second half of the season. She also beat Clijsters in the Tokyo SF (and Sanchez-Vicario in the final) that year but Clijsters had just been a top 10 player for a few months just as Dokic herself. In Moscow 2001 she beat Dementieva in the final, but in 2001 this was not the Dementieva we know of today. Apart from these three title wins in 2001, Dokic has also won a t3 and a t5 tournament, her only GS result worth mentioning as a top 10 player was her one RG QF in 2002, however it's not like she always lost against all-time greats in GS events. For instance, as a top 10 player, at RG 01 she lost to Petra Mandula in 3r, at USO 02 she lost to Bovina in 2r, at Wimbledon 02 she lost to Hantuchova in 4r etc, so the "harder opponents" excuse doesn't really have much substance when her results are analyzed...

Cp6uja
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:00 PM
At "Serbian Sensation" subforum on official "Serbian Hall of Fame" (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=311671) thread she is ranked 4th greatest ever by careers achivments in history of Serbian womans tennis.

It's not her fault that for example 3 of all 18 players which ever reach WTA #1 spot represent Serbia (or Serbia and Montenegro part of former Yugoslavia after 1991 clash of that country). Since official ranking exist (http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=13721284&postcount=64) (Open Era) Players from just 16 different countries ever reach TOP4... so for any of other countries (and even for some of that 16) with maybe couple exceptions Jelena Dokic will be GOAT for sure.

The Dawntreader
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:06 PM
Catergorically no, and i cant believe that's not the general concencus anyway:lol:

And it's stupid putting these 'what-ifs' to Dokic, because it's completely irrelevant. Hindsight is the most redundant tool ever. Jelena and Ana are streets ahead of Dokic in every department. Dont get me wrong, peak-Dokic was formidable but she was no slam winner, nor was she ever going to top the rankings.

AcesHigh
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:22 PM
No...no way in hell actually.

Miss Amor
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:28 PM
At "Serbian Sensation" subforum on official "Serbian Hall of Fame" (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=311671) thread she is ranked 4th greatest ever by careers achivments in history of Serbian womans tennis.



Its just a thread made by you, nothing official nor decided with others opinions

ce
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:38 PM
no :shrug:
seles>ana(stupid GS )> JJ > Dokic

LindsayRulz
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:42 PM
We will never know whether Dokic was a better player than Ana and Jelena or not. Her archievement may not be as impressive than the one of Ivanovic and Jankovic but Dokic had to deal in a generation of players much tougher than today's generation.

Dodoboy.
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:44 PM
We will never know whether Dokic was a better player than Ana and Jelena or not. Her archievement may not be as impressive than the one of Ivanovic and Jankovic but Dokic had to deal in a generation of players much tougher than today's generation.

Very true!

LightWarrior
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Seriously what has been happening to her over the years ? As far as I know she never was seriously injured. I rememeber her winning a semi final in the Paris Gaz de France back in 2002 against Seles, one of the highest quality match I've ever seen. It doesn't make any sense this girl shouldn't have been among the top 5 for the ensuing years. What happened?

AcesHigh
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:52 PM
We will never know whether Dokic was a better player than Ana and Jelena or not. Her archievement may not be as impressive than the one of Ivanovic and Jankovic but Dokic had to deal in a generation of players much tougher than today's generation.

It wasn't like Dokic was only losing to Venus, Hingis, Serena, Davenport, etc. She only had a few big wins and although she had A LOT of talent, her career pales in comparison to JJ and Ana SO MUCH it's a laughable question.

Ana>JJ>>>Dokic

sammy01
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:04 PM
She isn't even Serbian and spent most of her formative development years in Australia, so no

you're saying no because of geography:help:, not because she has totaly inferior records to seles, jankovic and ivanovic lmfao!!!!!! :lol::lol:

Dominic
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:17 PM
She was/is a typical brainless ball basher with a hit-and-miss game, an unreliable serve, no huge weapons off the ground and no spectacular defensive capabilities to make up for her lack of a killer shot. She has made the most of her talent though reaching one GS semifinal and two QF's during her whole career...

Mmh honestly I thought you were pretty believable until you said she had no huge weapons off the ground. That makes me wonder if youve ever seen her play. Weapons is the only thing she has in her game. She is probably in the top five biggest hitters of all time. And her groundstrokes are super accurate as well. She also has a very good dropshot and lobs.

debopero
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Seles is American...

JackFrost
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Seles is American...
In her best years, before the stabbing, she played for yugoslavia. It means, most of her grand slams go to yugoslavia. ;)

KournikovaFan91
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Seles is American...

thats what she likes to think:rolleyes:

i reckon Ana, JJ are Dokic are roughly the same standard at the height of their respective careers

danieln1
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:45 PM
Seles is the best serbian!!!

flyingmachine
Oct 18th, 2008, 11:51 PM
No

WhatTheDeuce
Oct 19th, 2008, 12:18 AM
Coming from one of the biggest and most loyal Dokic fans on this board, HELL NO.

Jelena is/was extremely talented, but she was never number one material and the only conceivable shot she had at a slam was at Wimbledon, and even that was far fetched.

At peak form she could take down Ana and JJ on basically any surface, she's got the game to take anybody when she's playing well. But consistency has always been her weakness, and that's why she has no real argument here.

SOA_MC
Oct 19th, 2008, 12:41 AM
We will never know whether Dokic was a better player than Ana and Jelena or not. Her archievement may not be as impressive than the one of Ivanovic and Jankovic but Dokic had to deal in a generation of players much tougher than today's generation.

That could be a argument if Dokic was making Slam QF's and SF's regularly but out of the 22 Slams Dokic has played only two QF's and one SF to her name

tonybotz
Oct 19th, 2008, 12:53 AM
dokic was a nut. to be a top player, you need to have it all, and that includes a champion's mentality, which dokic lacked tremendously.

SM
Oct 19th, 2008, 01:03 AM
Dokic has nicer groundies than Ana or Janko, but her movement and serve really can let her down....

Ana and Janko have very complete games relatively speaking....

kiwifan
Oct 19th, 2008, 01:58 AM
:haha: Best Body, that's about it. :devil:

carling
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:03 AM
MONICA SELES is the best Serbian EVER!

pov
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:19 AM
Ana has a GS, and Jelena is world number one!
That's not always an accurate gauge of "better."

I say no because her W/L is 244/159. Ivanovic is 209/72 and Jankovic is 328/169

kittyking
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:22 AM
No. Jankovic and Ivanovic are clearly very substantially ahead of Dokic. If one wants to count Seles as a Serb then obviously she is substantially ahead of Jankovic and Ivanovic.

To be honest, I am surprised anyone is taking this question seriously.

That sums it up perfectly :bounce:

Sammm
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:38 AM
The best Serbian tennis player or just the best Serbian who ever lived, period, full stop? Yes, of course she's much better than the 7 other million Serbs alive today :weirdo: :help:

Answer to both questions: No.

tonybotz
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:41 AM
sorry ya'll but Monika was HUNGARIAN. she's my paisano, we even have the same nose!

Fingon
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:47 AM
No, not at all really.

Ana has a GS, and Jelena is world number one!

Exactly, the question is not even worth answering.

You might make an argument with Jankovic, but not really, Jankovic has a grand slam final, has won more titles and has been #1.

But with Ana? please, Ana has one Grand Slam title and 2 more GS finals, with that it's game over, next please, there are no arguments against that.

On a final note, I don't see how Dokic was unlucky, I don't agree with those who say her game was so wonderful, as I didn't agree when she was a top player, but she had a game good enough to be a consistent top 10 and, with her looks she could have been very marketable, specially in Australia with the lack of top female players.

But what happened to her wasn't bad luck, she did it herself, nobody forced to break up with tennis Australia, nobody forced to marry that clown and chose his brother as a coach (even Jelena's father knew more about tennis than her), I can't feel sorry for someone whose problems are their own making. She chose to relate herself with two assholes that not only ruined her career but Karolina Sprem's as well, and to my knowledge she is still with them.

Time is running out, she should have gotten rid of them a long time ago, I think that now it's too late for her.

Jeff
Oct 19th, 2008, 10:54 AM
Depending on taste, there can be disagreements on which of the players had the most pleasing game or the most exciting or most favorable style of play, but when it comes to the best Serbian it has to be Jelena or Ana. Dokic is still my favorite of the three, but that doesn't make her the best player. As many have said....Jankovic is #1, Ivanovic has been #1 and has a slam etc. etc. You may want Dokic to be the best, but when it comes to making a conclusion you have to have results to back it up and although Dokic has a descent resume, it is nowhere near Ivanovic and Jankovic's at this point.

As a Dokic fan I have been, as many Dokic fans have been, disappointed with her wasted talent. I do hope that this comeback attempt is a successful one.

Renalicious
Oct 19th, 2008, 11:26 AM
I think when she played her best she might have played better than Jankovic and Ivanovic but in terms of achievement, she pales in comparison to both of them quite frankly.

spencercarlos
Oct 19th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Is she better than Ivanovic, and Jankovic?

I actually think she is better in many ways.
I think you are ridiculous and deluded in more ways than one.

:wavey:

spencercarlos
Oct 19th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Coming from one of the biggest and most loyal Dokic fans on this board, HELL NO.

Jelena is/was extremely talented, but she was never number one material and the only conceivable shot she had at a slam was at Wimbledon, and even that was far fetched.

At peak form she could take down Ana and JJ on basically any surface, she's got the game to take anybody when she's playing well. But consistency has always been her weakness, and that's why she has no real argument here.
She could surely overpower Jankovic at peak form, but to beat Ana on peak form that would be a question mark. Still this is doubtful, check Dockic record with Arantxa, Clijsters and Martinez, all of them great defenders and saving their game differences, her record against them is not impressive.

Ivanovic moves a little better than Jelena did, and seems to be a more complete player, at the net for example, whereareas Jelena´s volleys were inexistent or below standar at the net.

Also groundstrokes, as consistently powerful that Dokic´s were, Ana comes up with some flashing amazing forehand winners.

homogenius
Oct 19th, 2008, 02:03 PM
She could have been...but she failed to qualify for Linz's maindraw :sad:

WhatTheDeuce
Oct 19th, 2008, 06:15 PM
She could surely overpower Jankovic at peak form, but to beat Ana on peak form that would be a question mark. Still this is doubtful, check Dockic record with Arantxa, Clijsters and Martinez, all of them great defenders and saving their game differences, her record against them is not impressive.

Ivanovic moves a little better than Jelena did, and seems to be a more complete player, at the net for example, whereareas Jelena´s volleys were inexistent or below standar at the net.

Also groundstrokes, as consistently powerful that Dokic´s were, Ana comes up with some flashing amazing forehand winners.
vs. Arantxa 3-3
vs. Clijsters 3-6
vs. Martinez 5-6 (won 5 of their last 6 meetings though)

... not really bad at all considering all 3 are slam champions.

And Ana is also far less consistent than Jankovic, so I honestly think she'd be a better matchup for Dokic than Jankovic would anyway.

Dominic
Oct 19th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Also groundstrokes, as consistently powerful that Dokicīs were, Ana comes up with some flashing amazing forehand winners.

Maybe but Dokic did too and her backhand was clearly better and more powerful than Ana's.

Slutati
Oct 19th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Yes.

mb011
Oct 19th, 2008, 08:06 PM
she might have been, but she wasn't smart enough. but her game was always one-dimensional, without a plan B, just smack the ball, and smack it again. whereas jankovic can improvize much more, and i'm sure she would frustrate dokic with her "getting everything back", also ana has this amazing forhand and also a very good serve wheras dokic serve had always been very weak.

so my answer is no, she is not ther greatest.

Cp6uja
Oct 19th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Jelena Dokic at her peak is really very good player which is similar when we looking active players to Hantuchova, Petrova, Chakvetadze... in terms of achivments and potential, and that will be enough to be best player ever for big majority of worlds countries (even in Europe) - but for sure not in Serbia case which give tennis world players like Seles, Ivanovic and Jankovic.

I cant belive that this thread have almost 100 replies so far and about 25% take this subject too seriously.

Dominic
Oct 19th, 2008, 09:26 PM
I cant belive that this thread have almost 100 replies so far and about 25% take this subject too seriously.

I don't see why not, I mean I know that Ivanovic ans Jankovic have achieved alot more in terms of results but the question is who is the better player. In terms of games at their peak, I really don't think Ana and Jelena are miles better than Dokic. Like many ppl said she played in at a time when the competition was much much tougher and still had many big wins and won 5 tournaments including two tier I's. In my opinion peak Dokic in the summer of 2002 maybe, could have done pretty well against those 2. And I would definately not call her serve weak, it was inconsistent yes and sometimes she hit many doublefaults but alot of times it was on and she got lots of free points with her relatively powerful and precise first serve and really unattackable second serve. Her groundstrokes were miles more powerful than Jankovic's and her forehand was comparable to Ana's and her backhand better. Anyways, I'm not saying she would have killed them but they would have been competitive imo.

Jakeev
Oct 20th, 2008, 08:19 AM
Jelena should have been...........

SM
Oct 20th, 2008, 12:39 PM
well, she put in the hard work this year...she rarely lost in a tournament without atleast one match win like she did in Zurich :)...

she has finally played fairly consistently, it might come together for her during the aussie season now that she has played a fair bit of tennis and is obviously gonna be both match fitter and physically fitter next yr....plus her ranking will make it easier next yr as she hopefully will be playing WTA after the aussie open

fufuqifuqishahah
Oct 20th, 2008, 03:35 PM
I find it sad that Ivanovic and Jankovic refuse to give credit to Dokic.

This thread is ridiculous and so are your comments. :p

She is an amazing player, and I love Dokic, but her accomplishments (right now) don't compare to Ivanovic or Jankovic.

I don't even know why I'm bothering posting.

dexx80
Oct 21st, 2008, 07:55 AM
1 Seles




2. Ana
3. Jelena J.




4. Jelena D.

Golovinjured.
Oct 21st, 2008, 08:34 AM
I'd say she's second only to Seles :shrug:

LH2HBH
Oct 21st, 2008, 09:06 AM
Not. A. Chance.

maki30
Oct 21st, 2008, 09:07 AM
of course not, Jankovic and Ivanovic is much better in every way and aspect of game.
That's not the question.:kiss:

maki30
Oct 21st, 2008, 09:11 AM
MONICA SELES is the best Serbian EVER!

She's from Serbia, but not Serbian - she's Hungary

spencercarlos
Oct 21st, 2008, 09:52 AM
vs. Arantxa 3-3
vs. Clijsters 3-6
vs. Martinez 5-6 (won 5 of their last 6 meetings though)

... not really bad at all considering all 3 are slam champions.

And Ana is also far less consistent than Jankovic, so I honestly think she'd be a better matchup for Dokic than Jankovic would anyway.
Considering that Arantxa and Conchita were way past their respective peaks, type of game and that they were on their latest years of their carreers, is not as impressive.

Still Dokic at her best and especially indoors as i recall she was a very difficult oponnent to play when she was on. Still she seemed to fall short against the biggest names in the game, at the most critical-important of times.