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View Full Version : Factor Fatigue - Jelena JANKOVIC three-setters (Shocking Stats)


Cp6uja
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Only one player played more than 80 mtches in 2006 - Jelena Jankovic
Only one player played more than 80 mtches in 2007 - Jelena Jankovic (with FED CUP matches she played even over 100!!!)
Probably only one player will played more than 80 mtches in 2008 - Jelena Jankovic (Safina also have some chances)

This is not another thread about her famous shedule b/c my personal oppinion is always opposite to majority here that JJ have some benefits from that. This season she will play 20-22 tournaments (instead about 30) but rankings and results at majors is better than ever (only at Wimbledon of mandatory events not reach atleast SF)..

I will show you shocking results of my latest research about terrible influence on Jelena Jankovic of playeng back to back on her body and results. No better indication of fatigue influence than 3rd setters record. Jelena Jankovic is elite WTA player since Roland Garros 2006 and her transformation from average TOP20 to WTA TOP5 player is simple fantastic. Since that period her 3-setters h2h is 38-31 which is not bad for sure, but worse than expected of some elite player which obviously have some unique phisical characteristics (nobody else in WTA is not ready even to try to plays three seasons in the row 80+ competetive singles matches).

I have idea to analysis litle bit deeper this JJ about 70 three-setters which she played since june of 2006 and results which I will present you now is realy shocking.


JELENA JANKOVIC 3-setters results at Grand Slams
(when players have day pause before every match)
WON 2-6 6-4 6-1 against (25) BARTOLI MARION FRA (RG/06)
WON 6-2 4-6 6-4 against KING VANIA USA (WIMBLEDON/06)
WON 7-6 4-6 6-4 against (6) WILLIAMS VENUS USA (WIMBLEDON/06)
WON 6-7 6-1 6-4 against DULKO GISELA ARG (USO/06)
WON 5-7 6-3 6-2 against (9) VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (USO/06)
WON 6-7 6-3 6-2 against (6) KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (USO/06)
LOSE 4-6 6-4 6-0 against (2) HENIN-HARDENNE JUSTINE BEL (USO/06)
WON 6-4 4-6 6-1 against (26) WILLIAMS VENUS USA (RG/07)
WON 5-7 7-6 6-2 against (25) SAFAROVA LUCIE CZE (WIMBLEDON/07)
LOSE 3-6 7-5 6-3 against (18) BARTOLI MARION FRA (WIMBLEDON/07)
WON 4-6 6-2 6-3 against (Q) CORNET ALIZE FRA (USO/07)
WON 6-4 4-6 6-1 against (19) BAMMER SYBILLE AUT (USO/07)
LOSE 4-6 6-1 7-6 against (12) WILLIAMS VENUS USA (USO/07)
WON 2-6 6-2 12-10 against PASZEK TAMIRA AUT (AO/08)
WON 6-2 4-6 6-1 against (30) RAZZANO VIRGINIE FRA (AO/08)
LOSE 6-4 3-6 6-4 against (2) IVANOVIC ANA SRB (RG/08)
WON 2-6 6-4 6-2 against (31) WOZNIACKI CAROLINE DEN (WIMBLEDON/08)
WON 6-3 6-7 7-5 against ARVIDSSON SOFIA SWE (USO/08)
WON 3-6 6-2 6-1 against (21) WOZNIACKI CAROLINE DEN (USO/08)
OVERAL W/L RECORD: 15-4 (78.95%)



JELENA JANKOVIC Opening Match* 3-setters results at all other tournaments
(when players obviously not played couple days before first match)
WON 6-1 6-7 6-3 against BAMMER SYBILLE AUT (LINZ/06)
WON 6-4 4-6 6-3 against (5) HINGIS MARTINA SUI (SYDNEY/07)
WON 6-3 2-6 7-5 against MEDINA GARRIGUES ANABEL ESP (BERLIN/07)
WON 4-6 6-1 6-3 against PEER SHAHAR ISR (STUTTGART/07)
WON 6-1 2-6 6-3 against GOLOVIN TATIANA FRA (SYDNEY/08)
WON 6-1 3-6 6-3 against (Q) SHVEDOVA YAROSLAVA RUS (DOHA/08)
WON 4-6 6-3 6-4 against (W) MIRZA SANIA IND (DUBAI/08)
WON 6-7 6-2 7-6 against ARVIDSSON SOFIA SWE (MIAMI/08)
WON 6-7 6-3 6-2 against DUCHEVINA VERA RUS (MOSCOW/08)
OVERAL W/L RECORD: 9-0 (100%)
*when JJ is Bye in 1st round counting is 2nd round (her 1st tournament match)


JELENA JANKOVIC all other 3-setters results since RG/2006
(when she played back to back, day after day matches)
LOSE 6-4 0-6 7-5 against JACKSON JAMEA USA (BIRMINGHAM/06)
WON 6-4 1-6 7-6 against (Q) BONDARENKO ALONA UKR (S'HERTOGENBOSCH/06)
LOSE 5-7 6-2 6-2 against (1) CLIJSTERS KIM BEL (STANFORD/06)
LOSE 6-4 3-6 6-3 against (1) CLIJSTERS KIM BEL (SAN/06)
LOSE 6-3 4-6 6-4 against (3) DEMENTIEVA ELENA RUS (LA/06)
WON 6-4 4-6 6-2 against (3) PETROVA NADIA RUS (BEIJING/06)
LOSE 6-1 3-6 7-6 against (1) MAURESMO AMELIE FRA (BEIJING/06)
WON 4-6 6-2 7-5 against (Q) PIRONKOVA TSVETANA KIRILOVA BUL (STUTTGART/06)
WON 3-6 6-4 6-1 against (Q) PIRONKOVA TSVETANA KIRILOVA BUL (ZURICH/06)
WON 6-7 6-4 6-2 against (Q) VESNINA ELENA RUS (LINZ/06)
LOSE 5-7 7-6 6-4 against (4) VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (LINZ/06)
WON 4-6 6-1 6-4 against KING VANIA USA (QUEBEC/06)
LOSE 2-6 6-4 3-1 ret. against (8) POUTCHKOVA OLGA RUS (QUEBEC/06)
WON 7-6 5-7 6-3 against (5) ZVONAREVA VERA RUS (AUCKLAND/07)
WON 6-4 4-6 6-4 against (8) VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (SYDNEY/07)
LOSE 4-6 7-6 6-4 against (3) CLIJSTERS KIM BEL (SYDNEY/07)
LOSE 3-6 6-4 6-2 against (5) IVANOVIC ANA SRB (TOKYO/07)
LOSE 6-7 6-2 6-4 against (1) HENIN JUSTINE BEL (DOHA/07)
LOSE 2-6 7-6 6-4 against (32) SANTANGELO MARA ITA (MIAMI/07)
WON 3-6 6-3 7-6 against WILLIAMS VENUS USA (CHARLESTON/07)
LOSE 7-5 2-6 6-4 against (1) HENIN JUSTINE BEL (WARSAW/07)
WON 6-1 6-7 2-3 ret. against PENG SHUAI CHN (BERLIN/07)
LOSE 3-6 6-4 6-4 against (1) HENIN JUSTINE BEL (BERLIN/07)
WON 3-6 6-3 7-5 against (16) KIRILENKO MARIA RUS (BIRMINGHAM/07)
WON 4-6 6-3 7-5 against (1/W) SHARAPOVA MARIA RUS (BIRMINGHAM/07)
WON 6-3 3-6 7-6 against (4) SAFINA DINARA RUS (S'HERTOGENBOSCH/07)
LOSE 7-6 3-6 6-3 against (3) CHAKVETADZE ANNA RUS (S'HERTOGENBOSCH/07)
LOSE 6-2 3-6 7-5 against KIRILENKO MARIA RUS (SAN DIEGO/07)
WON 6-4 6-7 6-2 against AZARENKA VICTORIA BLR (LA/07)
LOSE 4-6 6-3 7-5 against (3/W) IVANOVIC ANA SRB (LA/07)
WON 5-7 6-3 6-2 against (12) GOLOVIN TATIANA FRA (TORONTO/07)
LOSE 6-4 2-6 6-2 against DAVENPORT LINDSAY USA (BALI/07)
LOSE 6-7 7-5 6-2 against (6) SZAVAY AGNES HUN (BEIJING/07)
LOSE 6-4 0-6 6-3 against CHAKVETADZE ANNA RUS (TOUR/07)
LOSE 6-4 4-6 6-4 against VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (SYDNEY/08)
LOSE 5-7 6-4 6-3 against (2) KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (DUBAI/08)
LOSE 6-3 3-6 6-3 against YAN ZI CHN (BANGALORE/08)
LOSE 6-1 5-7 6-3 against (8) WILLIAMS SERENA USA (MIAMI/08)
LOSE 6-2 3-6 6-2 against (9) ZVONAREVA VERA RUS (CHARLESTON/08)
LOSE 6-3 2-6 6-3 against (7) DEMENTIEVA ELENA RUS (BERLIN/08)
WON 5-7 6-2 6-3 against (7) WILLIAMS VENUS USA (ROME/08)
LOSE 6-2 5-7 6-3 against (6) SAFINA DINARA RUS (OLYMPICS/08)
LOSE 2-6 7-5 7-5 against (5) KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (TOKYO/08)
WON 6-4 2-6 6-4 against (5) ZVONAREVA VERA RUS (BEIJING/08)
WON 6-7 7-5 6-2 against (6) WILLIAMS VENUS USA (STUTTGART/08)
WON 0-6 6-1 6-0 against (3) DEMENTIEVA ELENA RUS (MOSCOW/08)
OVERAL W/L RECORD: 18-27 (40.00%%)

^^^ LATEST UPDATES Oct 13


Results of this analysis is so obvious so no need to explain anything. My question is will she be able ever to reccover from this damage of playing back to back 3 years in the row. Every next season seems to worse for her ability to win 3-setter after she played match previous day - please notice that in that position she lose 11 of her last 12 matches (including todays vs Kuznetsova). So if she regroup her shedule to normal (about 50 matches per season) since next year for example, will this phenom will be behind her or influence of damage on her body which she doing last three season will always be there and out of Grand Slams and tournaments first matches she will be always extremly vulnerable (if not hopeless) in long matches???

BTW it's very interesting to see fact that Jelena Jankovic in more than last 12 months won EVERY WTA tournament where she able to win in BACK-2-BACK 3-setter!!! In Rome QF and Stuttgart SF she beat Venus, in semifinals of Beijing and Moscow she beat Zvonareva and Dementieva - and at end she won all 4 this titles!

Miss Atomic Bomb
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:23 AM
:shrug:

Just Do It
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Oh well, if you are poiting she lost to Sveta because she is tired, you are wrong :lol: People are saying She will get injured or will get tired for 3 years now, but still nothing. Obviously that kind of schedule is adequate for her :shrug:

Kworb
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Amazing, shocking stats :speakles:

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:32 AM
She might just lose three setters because mentally she doesn't have what it takes to close the deal. :shrug: I may not be physical at all.

Cp6uja
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:37 AM
Oh well, if you are poiting she lost to Sveta because she is tired, you are wrong :lol: People are saying She will get injured or will get tired for 3 years now, but still nothing. Obviously that kind of schedule is adequate for her :shrug:This is thread about Jelena Jankovic career since she become an elite player (after that slump in 1st half of 2006), not about some one single match (Tokyo/08 QF for example).

If for you is nothing strange that Jelena Jankovic since june of 2006 in 3-setters have fantastic record 23-4 (85.2%) when she not played previous day, and same player against same opponents have almost pathetic 15-27 (35.7%) three-setters record when she played previous day - i realy dont know which words i need to use for explanation if this clear numbers is not enough?

CORIA01
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:45 AM
She Must Play Less Tournaments

frontier
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:02 AM
how many titles did she win this year after 80 matches

Donatello
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:14 AM
Great research and analysis.

I do think it has to do with her mental playing strength. Jankovic isn't really mentally strong (tenniswise).

She also has another weird record, I notice that the players who do take her to three sets and Jelena manages to win, they are often not so big players who can take her to three sets: (at GS's for instance) Cornet, Bammer, Paszek, Razzano, Wozniacki x2, Shvedova, Mirza, Arvidsson x2... these are players you should eat in 2 set's at the big tournies when you are number 1,2,3 in the world.

DarkchildSwiss
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:20 AM
she "only" won Rome where she beat Cornet in the final. Other notable results are:
SF Australian Open lost to Sharapova
SF Doha lost to Na Li
SF Dubai lost to Kuznetsova
SF Indian Wells lost to Ivanovic
RU Miami lost to Serena Williams
SF French Open lost to Ivanovic
SF Los Angeles lost to Safina
RU Australian Open lost to Serena Williams
2008 Singles Record: 51-16 (includes Tokyo)

Adal
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Oh my. This must mean Ana will end year as #1.

colt13
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Good stuff! Let's see if the trend holds up.

empressionist
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:38 AM
I dont think its that big of tragedy jelena lost this match to sveta. Sveta is a good player and the match was very close.

darkchild
Sep 19th, 2008, 12:14 PM
In her back-to-back matches, she lost most of them to better players.
Out of 27 losses, I will say 4-5 are bad ones.

chuvack
Sep 19th, 2008, 12:34 PM
good find of information.

It shows another reason why the Grand Slams are the real indicators of who is the best players - because the day pause between matches takes away the factor of fatigue.

friendsita
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Oh well, if you are poiting she lost to Sveta because she is tired, you are wrong :lol: People are saying She will get injured or will get tired for 3 years now, but still nothing. Obviously that kind of schedule is adequate for her :shrug:

we'll see

Cp6uja
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:59 PM
In her back-to-back matches, she lost most of them to better players.
Out of 27 losses, I will say 4-5 are bad ones.

LIST of PLAYERS WHICH BEAT JJ in her B2B 3-setter matches:
1 CHAKVETADZE ANNA (x2)
2 CLIJSTERS KIM (x3)
3 DAVENPORT LINDSAY
4 DEMENTIEVA ELENA (x2)
5 HENIN JUSTINE (x3)
6 IVANOVIC ANA (x2)
7 JACKSON JAMEA
8 KIRILENKO MARIA
9 KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA (x2)
10 MAURESMO AMELIE
11 POUTCHKOVA OLGA
12 SAFINA DINARA
13 SANTANGELO MARA
14 SZAVAY AGNES
15 VAIDISOVA NICOLE (x2)
16 WILLIAMS SERENA
17 YAN ZI
18 ZVONAREVA VERA


LIST of PLAYERS WHICH BEAT JJ in GS 3-setter matches:
1 HENIN JUSTINE (eventual RG/07 Champion)
2 BARTOLI MARION (eventual Wimbledon/07 Runnerup)
3 WILLIAMS VENUS (won that USO/07 QF 3rd set in TB)
4 IVANOVIC ANA (eventual RG/08 Champion)


So are you realy sure about yours "i dont see nothing strange" statement? Especialy look at her last 12 B2B 3-setters when she is always WTA high ranked TOP5 player, unlike many of her opponents.


LOSE like #3 6-4 2-6 6-2 against #234 DAVENPORT LINDSAY USA (BALI/07)
LOSE like #3 6-7 7-5 6-2 against #23 SZAVAY AGNES HUN (BEIJING/07)
LOSE like #3 6-4 0-6 6-3 against #7 CHAKVETADZE ANNA RUS (YEC/07)
LOSE like #3 6-4 4-6 6-4 against #12 VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (SYDNEY/08)
LOSE like #4 5-7 6-4 6-3 against #3 KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (DUBAI/08)
LOSE like #4 6-3 3-6 6-3 against #54 YAN ZI CHN (BANGALORE/08)
LOSE like #3 6-1 5-7 6-3 against #8 WILLIAMS SERENA USA (MIAMI/08)
LOSE like #5 6-2 3-6 6-2 against #17 ZVONAREVA VERA RUS (CHARLESTON/08)
LOSE like #5 6-3 2-6 6-3 against #9 DEMENTIEVA ELENA RUS (BERLIN/08)
WIN like #4 5-7 6-2 6-3 against #9 WILLIAMS VENUS USA (ROME/08)
LOSE like #1 6-2 5-7 6-3 against #6 SAFINA DINARA RUS (OLYMPICS/08)
LOSE like #2 2-6 7-5 7-5 against #7 KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (TOKYO/08)

LudwigDvorak
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:03 PM
My only qualm with this is that Jelena makes her opponents play SUPER well to beat her. It's extremely difficult to do, you know? So it's going to take three sets to beat her usually. It's like with Schnyder in 2005 when 18/25 of her losses were in three sets. It should have had little to do with fatigue but that she made herself hard to beat. Same as JJ the last few years.

But I'm sure fatigue has SOME factor with a few of her losses the past two years. I just think there's more to it than that.

darkchild
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:05 PM
LOSE like #3 6-4 2-6 6-2 against #234 DAVENPORT LINDSAY USA (BALI/07)
LOSE like #3 6-7 7-5 6-2 against #23 SZAVAY AGNES HUN (BEIJING/07)
LOSE like #3 6-4 0-6 6-3 against #7 CHAKVETADZE ANNA RUS (YEC/07)
LOSE like #3 6-4 4-6 6-4 against #12 VAIDISOVA NICOLE CZE (SYDNEY/08)
LOSE like #4 5-7 6-4 6-3 against #3 KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (DUBAI/08)
LOSE like #4 6-3 3-6 6-3 against #54 YAN ZI CHN (BANGALORE/08)
LOSE like #3 6-1 5-7 6-3 against #8 WILLIAMS SERENA USA (MIAMI/08)
LOSE like #5 6-2 3-6 6-2 against #17 ZVONAREVA VERA RUS (CHARLESTON/08)
LOSE like #5 6-3 2-6 6-3 against #9 DEMENTIEVA ELENA RUS (BERLIN/08)
LOSE like #1 6-2 5-7 6-3 against #6 SAFINA DINARA RUS (OLYMPICS/08)
LOSE like #2 2-6 7-5 7-5 against #7 KUZNETSOVA SVETLANA RUS (TOKYO/08)

Davenport, Chakvetadze, Vaidisova, Kuznetsova, Williams, Zvonareva, Dementieva and Safina have all beaten her in STRAIGHT SETS before, that's 8 out of 10 in your list.
Well, maybe not all of them did it after Jankovic becomes an "elite" player, but these people, including Szavay, are not pushovers. They are top 5, top 10 players (excluding Szavay) themselves.
Fatigue is not the only factor in her losses, Martina Hingis plays a similar physical-demanding game, and she has way more wins than Jankovic in this kind of situations, simply because she was a better player.

laurie
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Cp6uja, that was really interesting nformation you posted there - thanks for that.

Well it's an interesting question, why does Jelena do this? It's a question Tennis fans have now been asking for the last 3 seasons - but she does it for a reason. My opinion is that she feels compelled to play so often to keep her ranking up.

Jelena knows she doesn't possess a couple of real killer shots like other players - maybe it's not her fault, she wasn't able to develop those type of shots, she doesn't have a big weapon - no big serve, no big forehand, not having the ability to finish points quickly often enough - having an extremely dodgy and vulnerable second serve - vulnerable to attack that is. So to get round this she has to grind out results - so she has to keep playing to keep getting consistent results. This happened to Hingis, Hingis felt compelled to play a lot of tournaments to protect her number 1 ranking from the likes of Venus, Capriati, Serena and Davenport who had bigger shots than her and could match her in slams - but they were not as consistent in the daily grind of the tour, continually picking up points and victories in smaller events was Hingis' forte, 2000 been a classic example, no slams for Hingis that year but still finished as world number 1 even though Venus won two slams that year and Davenport won 1 slam and got to 3 finals.

Yevgeny Kafelnikov pretty much did the same on the ATP - and as usual the price is that these types of players are all knackered in their mid 20s - Kafelnikov was done by the age of 28 (which is quite quick for a male player). Hingis was utterly burned out by 2002. And I also understand Clijsters also played loads of tournaments non stop before injuries and lack of desire set in (damn quick in her case!!) And let's not forget Davydenko - the same scenario (as predicted) is now happening to him.

So Jelena can either try to improve her game by adding new dimensions to it, like more volleying, more hitting down the lines and taking to the net, develop a bigger first serve, she's quite tall so there's no reason why she couldn't - improve her second serve considerably, improve her mentality to take her game to the opponent more often.

The other alternative Jelena can take is pretty much what she's doing now - ie, not having any time off to practice and work on her game in between big events because she is playing literally every week, hopping on and off airplanes - therefore just been typically consistent but not really reaching her potential - and consequently risk been burned out in her mid 20s.

Let's hope Jelena is brave enough to take the former option.

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Stop playing so much and PRIORITIse!

Maybe you'll end up with more than just 1 title this year :rolleyes:

Serenita
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:24 PM
great info!

eugreene2
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:32 PM
How many times will Venus let this chic beat her in the third set? I forgot all about the meaning fo this thread because all I see is Venus has lost to her 4 times in the 3rd set - RIDICULOUS!!!

Ciarán
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:12 PM
V.Interesting!

simplydeep
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Which player doesn't play matches back to back that is the nature of the beast. Jankovic surffers because A she doesn't like to practise therefore she gets it done by playing more matches, very bad but its her choice and 2 she has no real power, she can't hurt from the back of the court consistently not against the top players, who can take the ball early and power down on the return, pushing her back and forcing her to swing longer on the return taking away her recovery time between points that are hit hard and deep. She runs down balls but the moment you put a stop to that you take away a major part of her game, her serve is not really great its just a starter for the rallies.

Jankovic's conditioning is no good basically. You have to be fitter and stronger and if she can't bounce back from tough matches or back to back matches she need not be a tennis player. Jankovic can imo handle it, if she practises and then plays less which means she will be less injured, and will ahve more to give in big matches

Karolina_Sprem
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:14 PM
how many titles did she win this year after 80 matches


Naughty, naughty:devil:
;)

fouc
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:20 PM
aga will probably have more that 80 matches this year

Henpova
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:01 AM
Great research and analysis.

I do think it has to do with her mental playing strength. Jankovic isn't really mentally strong (tenniswise).

She also has another weird record, I notice that the players who do take her to three sets and Jelena manages to win, they are often not so big players who can take her to three sets: (at GS's for instance) Cornet, Bammer, Paszek, Razzano, Wozniacki x2, Shvedova, Mirza, Arvidsson x2... these are players you should eat in 2 set's at the big tournies when you are number 1,2,3 in the world.


Do you even watch her matches??? She is one of the strongest players mentaly. She fight so hard to come back when she is down, she almost never gives up. She is also very tennuswise in the shots she use. She is able to get back in a point like no other player, on the tour now. She has the best defiance on the tour, and you don't have that by not being tennis smart.

I do think she need to lighten her playing, that way she can when more titles. Justine, cut back her schedule, to let her stay fresh, and look how many titles she won, i think JJ needs to do the same.

bestseller
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:35 AM
Do you even watch her matches??? She is one of the strongest players mentaly. She fight so hard to come back when she is down, she almost never gives up. She is also very tennuswise in the shots she use. She is able to get back in a point like no other player, on the tour now. She has the best defiance on the tour, and you don't have that by not being tennis smart.

I do think she need to lighten her playing, that way she can when more titles. Justine, cut back her schedule, to let her stay fresh, and look how many titles she won, i think JJ needs to do the same.
Justine was strong mentally and she rarely broke down.

Cp6uja
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:08 AM
If Jelena Jankovic have "mentaly" problems in three-setters it will more reflect on her three-setters results at most important tennis tournaments Grand Slams... but her h2h record at slams 3-setters is almost fantastic (15-4 since she is elite player), which is prove that she is actualy big fighter and mentaly strong player. For example, yesterday against Sveta Jelena won 6 of 7 serve-games in 1st half of match, and only 3 of her last 9 serve-games. For me that is more indication of her phisical down than mentaly. She moves well whole match, but her power is down.

Also i use here border 80+ matches per season because nobody else in 2006 or 2007 except JJ not played so many matches, but her real 06/07 shedule is actualy OVER 100 singles matches per season!!! which is absolutely madness (80 is way too much - 100 is madness). In 2007 she realy played over 100 matches if we count 4 singles FED CUP matches in Evro-African Zone, and in 2006 she tehnicaly played even less than 80 matches, but this research not include that JJ career biggest slump between january-may of 2006 when she have disaster 1-10 W/L record. In 2nd half of that season, since Rome tournament (last week of may 2006) till end of that season Jelena played 61 match (!!?!) which is actualy "over 100 matches" per season rythm. So JJ between RG/06 till end of next 2007 season played almost every week (or "over 100 matches per season" shedule if you more like) and this season her shedule is not that extreme (about 85 matches per season and no more doubles) but still is too much. But biggest OP question of this thread is actualy is damage of that 2006-08 hyperactivity on her body is already fundamental or will disappear quickly when her shedule will become "normal"?

Dont forget that when Jelena have day pause before some GS round her opponent also have that bye day, and when Jelena playing back to back, her opponent also played on previous day - so no any rational reason for such drammatic diference in 3rd set records in matches when she played day before and when she not played (15-27 in comparation with 23-4 is huge difference). Only explanation which i see is that her body is not able to produce same level of game in 3rd set when she played back to back. That is also probably best explanation why she not have more titles this season together with by far best career results at majors... her body is not ready for back to back (day after day) playing tournaments (no matter how weak is entry list) and first solid player which won set against her is almost always fatal. Ironicaly only tournament which she won this season is Rome where she won her only "back to back" 3-setter this year so far and where she have unexpected extra bye day when Sharapova W/O from her match against Jelena.

Cp6uja
Sep 27th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Todays Jankovic win against Zvonareva in Beijing SF is just her 2nd 3-setters win in last 12 months in "back-to-back" three-setters (with 10+ loses)! JJ only tournament which she won in last 12 months is tier-I Rome, where she reach that only b-2-b 3-setter win (vs Venus), so if "tradition" continue, Jankovic will win again title at tournament where she won some b-2-b 3-setter!

But ever with win, i notice again some strange things today maybe connected with that "fatigue" factor (b/c her hyperactivity in last 3 years). Last week she lose 6 of last 9 serve-games (before that she holds six serve-games in the row) in 3-setter which she lose against Kuznetsova, and today jankARLovic won perfect 16 out of 16 points on 1st serve in, but 20 out of 34 (58.8%) in rest of match on 1st serve.

ivanban
Sep 27th, 2008, 11:34 AM
thanx for jinxing her loss ;)

terjw
Sep 27th, 2008, 11:38 AM
You don't need these stats to know that is the reason for many of her 3rd set losses most of this year. She has been injured a lot. Then she comes back really quickly and needs both matchplay and practice to build up her fitness. She's said exactly this when asked. But then she's been getting another injury before she managed to build up her fitness.

We are now at a rare point in the season where thankfully she is injury free touch wood and she's had sufficient time to build up her fitness level.

At other times there have been other reasons she's lost 3-setters. Mental weakness like getting into rows with umpires and imploding or just getting nervous and too passive with weaker and weaker serves has certainly been another reason for some of her 3-set losses notably against Justine, Ana, Lindsay ....

LudwigDvorak
Sep 27th, 2008, 11:39 AM
Jelena is so dominant when she wins a set she hardly gets pushed to a third. She's 11-9 in three-setters this year, but 41-7 in two-setters.

In the nine three-setters she lost, she lost the first set seven times. Winning the first set is pretty critical for Jankovic.

bodan
Sep 27th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Apples and oranges. The OP confuses playing "week after week" and "day after day" in a single week.

Don't find these stats shocking at all.

Patrick345
Sep 27th, 2008, 01:16 PM
She is a mental midget. Is this something new? If she could close out matches/sets, she would have won the French Open this year, and possibly the US Open twice. In other words, she is like 80% of the women´s tour.:devil:

Cp6uja
Sep 27th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Apples and oranges. The OP confuses playing "week after week" and "day after day" in a single week.

Don't find these stats shocking at all.Playing "week after week" since she become an elite player in 2006 is reason why she have this "fatigue" problem in long 3-setters when she playing "day after day"... so no confusion here.

On other hand her stats in 3-setters when she played after bye day (at Grand Slams, or first match at other tournaments) is simple fantastic so her problem is not mental (at GS player have way bigger mental pressure than at tier-I or tier-II tournaments). Also no way that player which playing almost every week where almost always reach atleast QF round is "injuried"... so it's must be fatigue reason for this phenom.

BTW how must to looks stats to be shocking to you? Since Jelena Jankovic is top player (since midle of 2006) she won 85.2% three-setters (23-4) which she played after (atleast) day pause, and just 37.2% three setters (16-27) when she played previous day, so difference is about 50% instead "normal" about +/- 5% (which means NO DIFERENCE) which have almost all other WTA and ATP players.

Ian Aberdon
Sep 27th, 2008, 06:39 PM
Never mind FACTOR fatigue, I think I got STATISTICS fatigue :help: :lol:

Beny
Sep 27th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Some impressive stats!! :yeah:

Makes sense. I think Lena lost a lot of 3=setters due to tiredness

fufuqifuqishahah
Sep 28th, 2008, 01:11 AM
You also have to think about the fact that she probably plays a lot more because she hates practicing, so she probably doesn't fight and care as much in smaller tournaments. Therefore, she's more prone to lose tight matches because she cares less than the other person on the other side of the net.

So the issue may not be fatigue, the issue may be apathy.

Having said that, she has done extremely consistent jobs @ Grand Slams and that's when it matters most.

Jankolover.
Sep 28th, 2008, 01:23 AM
Jelena does not tire. She is the supergoddess of the WTA. :rolleyes:

terjw
Sep 28th, 2008, 01:25 AM
You also have to think about the fact that she probably plays a lot more because she hates practicing, so she probably doesn't fight and care as much in smaller tournaments. Therefore, she's more prone to lose tight matches because she cares less than the other person on the other side of the net.

So the issue may not be fatigue, the issue may be apathy.

Having said that, she has done extremely consistent jobs @ Grand Slams and that's when it matters most.

You have to take with a pinch of salt this thing about her not practicing. She used to say this a lot - but then next thing would talk about putting in a lot of practice before a match working on some aspect.

Whilst there used to be some truth in this not liking or practicing much and that was why she played the tournaments instead - I think it's very different now she's working with Sanchez as her coach. She's always out practicing with him now.

LudwigDvorak
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:20 AM
The opening post should be updated with her three set wins over Venus and Vera D. 9-0 with a bye and 17-27 when playing back to back matches.

homogenius
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:34 AM
I thought she would lose her first round match after she lost the first set, or against Pennetta.
She's tired but she compensates with a strong mental (and is obviously high on confidence after a month of great results).The fatigue will catch her at one point though.

LudwigDvorak
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:46 AM
def. #39 Paszek 26 62 1210
def. #32 Mirza 46 63 64
def. #63 Arvidsson 67(7) 62 76(9)
def. #9 Williams 57 62 63
def. #30 Wozniacki 26 64 62
def. #18 Wozniacki 36 62 61
def. #8 Williams 67(8) 75 62
def. #77 Dushevina 67(6) 63 62
---
l. to #12 Vaidisova 64 46 64
l. to #5 Sharapova 63 61
l. to #29 Li 63 64
l. to #54 Zi 63 36 63
l. to #2 Ivanovic 76(3) 63
l. to #8 Williams 61 57 63
l. to #17 Zvonareva 62 36 62
l. to #9 Dementieva 63 26 63
l. to #2 Ivanovic 64 36 64
l. to #60 Tanasugarn 63 62
l. to #9 Safina 76(3) 61
l. to #31 Cibulkova 75 62
l. to #6 Safina 62 57 63
l. to #3 Williams 64 75
W/L: 8-14

I think her record when losing the first set, this year at least, is the most important factor for her whether she loses or not. She's only lost two matches this year from a set up, and both were to Kuznetsova. And against the top ten she's 2-8 when she loses the first set, so...that's pretty important, very very important.

bodan
Oct 13th, 2008, 01:32 AM
I think her record when losing the first set, this year at least, is the most important factor for her whether she loses or not. She's only lost two matches this year from a set up, and both were to Kuznetsova. And against the top ten she's 2-8 when she loses the first set, so...that's pretty important, very very important.

Oh, LudwigDvorak, you kind of jinxed Dementieva here since only a day after she lost to Jankovic after convincingly winning the first set. :hug:

I think I agree with your observation more than I do with the Cp6uja's original one (BTW, the original post should be updated with JJ's three setters against Venus, VeraD and Elena).

However, it is not so simple. Of those matches against top 10 in which she lost the first set, she took it to three sets in more than half. Moreover, looking against all players (not only top 10) she has W/L ratio of about 50% in cases she lost the first set. So, more often than not, she is capable to (at least) come back after being down a set.

Steff_forever
Oct 13th, 2008, 02:13 AM
JJ will reduce the quantity of her matches in favor of quality. Quality means playing more easy first rd match-ups with easy 2set-wins and focusing on elite tournaments. Then her 3set losses and the devastating percentage of back-to-back 3set defeats will reduce.

It's been the case for most of top-ranked players since the open era began.
Their bodies demand playing higher quality. Any other decision takes them to long lasting injury setbacks.

I hope Jankovic has already reached this pt of thinking. If not I doubt she'll play four more years...

Cp6uja
Oct 13th, 2008, 10:08 AM
BTW it's very interesting to see fact that Jelena Jankovic in more than last 12 months won EVERY WTA tournament where she able to win in BACK-2-BACK 3-setter!!! In Rome QF and Stuttgart SF she beat Venus, in semifinals of Beijing and Moscow she beat Zvonareva and Dementieva - and at end she won all 4 this titles!OP is updated with Stuttgart and Moscow JJ 3-setters and also i added one new interesting Paragraph.

My conclusion that Jelena is phisicaly and fittest career-best right now, so that is reason why she won 3 b2b 3-setters in the row (week by week) after disaster strike where she won just 1 of 12 b2b 3-setters in 13 months period before that.

ivanban
Oct 13th, 2008, 12:39 PM
well, stats in this category aren't THAT shocking now :p

so, thread title should be changed to "Factor Fatigue - Jelena JANKOVIC three-setters (kinda Shocking Stats) :angel: