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View Full Version : which RG win is more of a fluke??


Bosco123
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:24 PM
additional facts:

road to final: Ivenovic - 1 top 10 wins.

Myskina- 3 top 10 wins.

Myskina had Justine in the draw, Ivanovic didn't.

both haven't won any preparation clay court tournament pre RG.

Uranium
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:30 PM
Obviously Ana, Myskina was able to beat Sveta from MPs down, Venus, Capriati(former champ) and then Elena consecutively
While Ana had an easy draw until semis:o

new-york
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:33 PM
is your question which RG win is weaker.

that would obviously be Ana's bananas. (bananas sounds good with Ana's.)

BUT fluke wise, i'd still say Myskina's because she straight setted her competition comin' out of...not nowhere...but i totally didn't see that one comin.

Ana's bananas (cf previous ()s) was kind of expected so even if that's her only slam when she retires, it's a lil less flukey.

the stronger the fluker.
out of the blue.
dies in the blue.

and you're still wondering why.

Protoss
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:46 PM
I'd say Myskina's is more of a fluke. She never made it past the 4th round at the French Open before or after winning it. Ana made it to the final in the previous year and had made the quarters earlier.

Myskina also never made it past the quarters of any slam besides when she won the French Open. Ana has made it to 2 other slam finals and a slam semifinal.

mashamaniac
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:48 PM
Obviously ana's was the fluke...

~Cherry*Blossom~
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:51 PM
Even though I like Myskina, if we had to call one of them a fluke it would be her (even though I don't believe hers really was).

Ana reached the final a year earlier. Myskina's worst surface was clay and did sod all at RG prior to 2004 and after 2004.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:52 PM
Myskina

Emina.
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:57 PM
myskina

goldenlox
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Anastasia was in great form late in that major, only losing 7 games the last 2 matches.
Ana could have fallen apart down a break *43 to Jelena. She earned that win and the final.
They both did enough to win a major.

LudwigDvorak
Sep 19th, 2008, 12:01 AM
Elena's '09 RG.

F: Dementieva def. Arvidsson 61 62 :hearts:

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 19th, 2008, 12:04 AM
myskina

frontier
Sep 19th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Myskina played great at RG that year and she deserved to win,Ana was a finalist the previous year and won the year after,I dont think it was a fluke win she outplayed her opponents to win and has potential to win more...

wild.river
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:20 AM
myskina, duh.

Nicolás89
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Obviously ana's was the fluke...

I don't know, didn't Myskina won that RG to never ever win the title again in her career. Ivanovic is still active. I'd say Myskina's was the fluke.

enchantrezz
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:22 AM
i dont think both wins are fluke.

Iva Majoli's win at RG was a fluke.

SAEKeithSerena
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:22 AM
myskina.

Havok
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:16 AM
Myskian EASILY. She never did anything of remote at RG and I believe on clay period before she shocked the world in 2004. Sure she beat 3 top 10 players, but neither of the 3 she played were playing decent and Myskina simply waited around long enough during the points for them to implode.

Ivanovic made it to the finals the year before the won her RG title, and also won big clay titles before she won the biggest clay title of them all.

cellophane
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:21 AM
i dont think both wins are fluke.

Iva Majoli's win at RG was a fluke.

BULLSHIT!

LeRoy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:23 AM
Elena's '09 RG.

F: Dementieva def. Arvidsson 61 62 :hearts:

I love Hillary Duffs "wake up wake wake up now...." :singer:

LudwigDvorak
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:24 AM
I love Hillary Duffs "wake up wake wake up now...." :sing:

I love the fact you listen to Hillary Duff. You fail. Goodbye.

tennisIlove09
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Myskina. I have never seen a Slam QF, SF, F litered with so many errors from her opponents. Venus, Jennifer and Elena really lost the matches. Not to take it away, but Myskina is by far the bigger fluke.

RFSTB
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:29 AM
Myskina for sure. Ana was in the FO final the year before, and the AO final a few months before her FO win. Myskina came out of nowhere before, and went nowhere after.

Valanga
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Jelena should have beaten Ana in RG SF :crying2:

Serenita
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:20 AM
Myskina is a 1 hit number.
Ana is here to stay.

Mightymirza
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:22 AM
Ana had reached finals of 2 Slams before winning RG (including RG last year..Her win this year is hardly a fluke :shrug:) Anyways pova also went through similar period when she won her first slam :o and lets not get started with everytime when pova reaches numero uno, how she responds..Ana is also going through same phase i suppose

OsloErik
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:23 AM
Are you serious with this? Myskina won a total of 1 match at Roland Garros before that tournament. Her record was 1-4. She hadn't won a clay title since the 2003 Tier IV in Sarasota, without beating a single top 20 player. She'd never even been past the QF of a clay Tier II or up, red OR green.

I thought Myskina would win a slam sometime in 2004 or 2005, but I never thought it would be the French. It's up there with Martinez winning Wimbledon as far as head-scratchers go. But Ivanovic had been a finalist at the French already, had a pretty good career record there, and had won a Tier I on the surface, plus had a pretty good overall record on clay in general.

AnnaK_4ever
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:17 AM
I don't know, didn't Myskina won that RG to never ever win the title again in her career. Ivanovic is still active. I'd say Myskina's was the fluke.

She won two.

Still, Myskina is the worst claycourter ever to have won Roland Garros. She was too emotional and streaky to execute real clay court tennis. It was a miracle she could do it in the last four matches at 04 RG.
Contrary to what many think, Myskina used different tactics against Venus and Jennifer. Playing Venus she was hitting very deep down the middle throwing Venus out of position for attack which resulted in numerous unforced errors.
Playing Jennifer she was hitting big, moving her around and coming to the net. The way Myskina finished that match -- two consecutive ROS winners -- summed up her gameplan.

As for Ana, she backed up her RG title with runner-up finish the year before and Berlin title. Without Henin she was the favorite in Paris -- how could her win be a fluke?

Хлоэ
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:24 AM
gotta love this kind of threads :o
both earned their titles.

Renalicious
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:44 AM
Myskina...it was more unexpected and freaky...the final was also freaky.

Ana's was...kind of expected tbh.

Beat
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:48 AM
there is no such thing as a fluke grand slam title.

InsideOut.
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:15 AM
Grand Slams are not flukes. You don't FLUKE your way through 7 straight matches.

Wojtek
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Ivanovic - she played very badly in the first week or she had 25k rival like Cetkovska. She played good only one match against Jankovic

homogenius
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:34 AM
there is no such thing as a fluke grand slam title.

sums it up

Miss Atomic Bomb
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:36 AM
ana's was a fluke.

InsideOut.
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:42 AM
Ivanovic - she played very badly in the first week or she had 25k rival like Cetkovska. She played good only one match against Jankovic

In the first week she trashed Wozniacki and Safarova. :wavey: Breadstick in each.

And Cetkovska had bagelled Alona Bondarenko coming into the match.

What about the final, she played well in that too.

Her last really good match :crying2:

Kworb
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:43 AM
Ivanovic

Nikkiri
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:43 AM
I really can't see how Ana's was the fluke she made the final the year before :shrug:

InsideOut.
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:44 AM
Ivanovic

Because of * and **, right?

Lulu.
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Both were flukes, however Ana's is bigger.

simplydeep
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:03 AM
There is nothing which a fluke, you take our chances and the win is rightly yours whether the draw was easy or not

simplydeep
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:04 AM
There is nothing which a fluke, you take our chances and the win is rightly yours whether the draw was easy or not

simplydeep
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:04 AM
There is nothing which a fluke, you take our chances and the win is rightly yours whether the draw was easy or not

InsideOut.
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:16 AM
^Triple post :lol:

Matt01
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:33 AM
gotta love this kind of threads :o
both earned their titles.


Exactly.

Same for Majol in 1997. She played amazing tennis to win her Slam as well :worship: And she was a talented, mentally strong player (before she celebrated her Slam victory a bit too much :p :lol:)

Jakeev
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:00 AM
People need to look up "fluke" in the dictionary.

Chris O'Neill winning the Australian Open in 1978 and Barbara Jordon the next year; ok, I might give you that.

But what a freaking pathetic thread...........

Noctis
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Obvious Anna

OsloErik
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Exactly.

Same for Majol in 1997. She played amazing tennis to win her Slam as well :worship: And she was a talented, mentally strong player (before she celebrated her Slam victory a bit too much :p :lol:)

Thank you for bringing that up, by the way.

Myskina wasn't one of the top 5 clay courters of the past two years (maybe not even top 10, to be honest), but was clearly one of the 5 best players on tour entering the French.

Ivanovic was clearly the 2nd or 3rd best clay courter of the past two years. Henin and MAYBE Jankovic could claim to be better; that's it.

Majoli's win was a little surprising, but in reality it would be comparable to Ivanovic winning it in 2007. A little premature, perhaps, but she'd had good results on clay (and at RG) that season, and beat a veteran who hadn't had a GREAT clay season (Hingis only played on clay tournament that season beforehand, Henin hadn't won a Tier I on clay that year).

hwanmig
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:02 PM
What about Serena beating Venus in 2002.

friendsita
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Ana's

PLP
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:42 PM
i dont think both wins are fluke.

Iva Majoli's win at RG was a fluke.

thanks, that is what I was about to say.

Still, as others have pointed out, winning the title is a great achievement and it isn't a 'fluke' but I am shocked that any poster on the board can say that Nastya's or Ana'a victory was a fluke and NOT Iva's. Great player though.

améliemomo
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:12 PM
I love the fact you listen to Hillary Duff. You fail. Goodbye.

well he's right,you have to be realistic.The fact you chose such poor player on clay such as arvidsson to face dementieva in the finale of roland garros prove how much credit you give to her claycourt game.:help:

at least chose a real opposition such as the serbians,kuznetsova or safina:o
if she has to win roland garros it will be the hardest way and she's lucky cause the queen of clay is not here anymore.

Demska
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Myskina won Sopot in 1999 - a clay court tournaments

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I voted Ana but after reading some very strong points in this i wish i could change my vote!

When russians win slams :tape: (no that's not Maria :p )

AnnaK_4ever
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Myskina won Sopot in 1999 - a clay court tournaments
Myskina won Palermo in 1999 but it has nothing to do with her RG win in 2004.

Demska
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:44 PM
Maybe not, but she still won a clay court event.

Olórin
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:57 PM
additional facts:

road to final: Ivenovic - 1 top 10 wins.

Myskina- 3 top 10 wins.

Myskina had Justine in the draw, Ivanovic didn't.

both haven't won any preparation clay court tournament pre RG.

You are merely another example of the reactionary dunderheads we are accustomed to starting threads here.

Ana Ivanovic may well comeback next year and defend her RG title. Sorry to be brutal, but you make a complete joke of yourself.

Danči Dementia
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Ana´s RG victory was not a fluke at all...she´s been in GS finals before it wasn´t a fluke at all.....fucking ridiculous haters :rolleyes:

Myskina´s was

The Daviator
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:11 PM
How can the 2007 runner-up winning the 2008 version be a fluke :rolls: Fluke is something which will never happen again, Ana will win RG again.

Both deserved their Slams.

Michaelz
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:12 PM
ana's for sure

Destiny
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:27 PM
Ana :yawn:

frenchie
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Neither of them!
They won it and that's all what matters. they were both the best players in the draw!

BTW you don't know anything about Nastya's life. She didn't live up to the expectations because of personnal problems and lack of desire since 2005!

But she was a great player and I LOVE her!

frenchie
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:32 PM
I'd say Myskina's is more of a fluke. She never made it past the 4th round at the French Open before or after winning it. Ana made it to the final in the previous year and had made the quarters earlier.

Myskina also never made it past the quarters of any slam besides when she won the French Open. Ana has made it to 2 other slam finals and a slam semifinal.

WRONG:rolleyes:
She reached the 4th round in 2006, giving a scare to Justine in the second set;)

Nicolás89
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:39 PM
She won two.

Still, Myskina is the worst claycourter ever to have won Roland Garros. She was too emotional and streaky to execute real clay court tennis. It was a miracle she could do it in the last four matches at 04 RG.
Contrary to what many think, Myskina used different tactics against Venus and Jennifer. Playing Venus she was hitting very deep down the middle throwing Venus out of position for attack which resulted in numerous unforced errors.
Playing Jennifer she was hitting big, moving her around and coming to the net. The way Myskina finished that match -- two consecutive ROS winners -- summed up her gameplan.

As for Ana, she backed up her RG title with runner-up finish the year before and Berlin title. Without Henin she was the favorite in Paris -- how could her win be a fluke?

I meant that Myskina could never win RG again, that's why her title was a fluke. Ivanovic can still win RG again.

vadin124
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Ana-Nastya - 2 Grand Slams, LenaD-JJ - 0 Grand Slams

Ana-Nastya>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LenaD-JJ

end of....get over it!

starin
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:54 PM
I always think of a fluke as a freak occurence. While Ivanovic had an easier road to the title I don't think her slam win was a freak occurrence. That was her 3rd Slam final in 2 years and her 2nd consecutive slam final at RG. She's proven she's a slam contender. While Myskina never made it to a QF at RG before or after her win there and never even made a slam SF at any other slam ever. In fact she played at RG 8 times and 5 times lost in the 1st round.

Marshmallow
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:58 PM
Who was more of a bitch, Mother Teresa or Anne Frank?

Similar concept, there's really no need to degrade the achievements of either, Myskina was a great player having to take on a full feild most of the time. Who knows how many more slams she could have won with the draws and so called weak Era we have now.

But if I have to chose, Ana has been hailed as a future big shot in tennis for a long time, surely more to come + 2 more slam finals than Myskina, but Myskina had a bit more to her game, she was REALLY talented.

M.S.F
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:19 PM
Ana Ivanovic RG - 08 :rolleyes:

Jelena should win this :o

But at least now we saw who is the real champion ;)

Andrew Laeddis
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Myskina

Andrew Laeddis
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:30 AM
How can the 2007 runner-up winning the 2008 version be a fluke :rolls: Fluke is something which will never happen again, Ana will win RG again.

Both deserved their Slams.

You can see the future. :confused:

Protoss
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:36 AM
WRONG:rolleyes:
She reached the 4th round in 2006, giving a scare to Justine in the second set;)
I said "never made it past the 4th round at the French Open before or after winning it". Making it to the 4th round isn't the same as making it past the 4th round. :p

The Daviator
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:38 AM
You can see the future. :confused:

With Justine gone, it is very likely she will win it again, and again :p

baleineau
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:43 AM
i can't quite believe how the voting is going. ivanovic was the favourite to win RG in 2008 with justine having retired. she was the finalist in 07 and had reached the Aus Open final in 08. Myskina on the other hand was a bit of an outsider at RG 04, having never reached a Slam SF before, and not really being known as a great clay courter.

what do we actually mean by fluke here? being a surprise or being "lucky" with the draw? obviously ivanovic had an easier draw than myskina, but you could say that myskina was "lucky" to play well at just the right time. a bit like when Capriati won the aus open in 2001, when Novtona won Wimbledon in 98 beating Tauziat, like Martinez winning Wimbledon because Steffi lost 1R.....

ivanovic winning RG was not a surprise, nor will she get lucky. she'll bounce back from her current slump.

in the fluke stakes, why not compare myskina with majoli. that's more comparable.

Cp6uja
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:17 AM
additional facts:

road to final: Ivenovic - 1 top 10 wins.

Myskina- 3 top 10 wins.

Myskina had Justine in the draw, Ivanovic didn't.

both haven't won any preparation clay court tournament pre RG.
I'm not sure what is more dumb here - poll question or opening post?

I remember couple days after RG some posters treat "non-TOP10" runnerup Dinara Safina like Marion Bartoli from 2007 Wimbledon, but have same mistake now in september when Dinara colect in last about 100 days together with that GS final also Olympic silver and 2 tier-I titles (maybe 3 if won Tokyo in next two days) is more than stupid! So Ana not beat in her road to title 1 top10 opponent - she won Berlin/08 and Rome/08 winners (Safina and Jelena). BTW according to bookmakers Ana is #2 favorite for RG/08 title (behind Serena) and #1 contender already since week1 (after Serena early lose), so her title is "sensation" only for some haters here.

What is relevance of non-healthy Henin draw-participation which won in 1st round of RG/04 #300 ranked WC and than lose in straight sets against #100 ranked Garbin in 2nd round on "value" of Myskina RG/04 title???

What is full definition of "fluke", and what tournament 2nd seed and finalist of previous season and previous slam (RG/07 and AO/08) win have with that?

ivanban
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:09 AM
is your question which RG win is weaker.

that would obviously be Ana's bananas. (bananas sounds good with Ana's.)

BUT fluke wise, i'd still say Myskina's because she straight setted her competition comin' out of...not nowhere...but i totally didn't see that one comin.

Ana's bananas (cf previous ()s) was kind of expected so even if that's her only slam when she retires, it's a lil less flukey.



I agree.

Ana's RG title was less of a fluke, even though she had ridiculously weak opponents. Myskina, on the other hand, truly was a fluke

Nikkiri
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:19 AM
Another vote for your least fave player poll. :D

Sharapowerr
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Ana s road to he final was absolute not hard, so Ana

Matt01
Sep 20th, 2008, 10:35 AM
Ana s road to he final was absolute not hard, so Ana


Beating Safina and Jankovic, two of the best(est) claycourters of the year, isn't hard? Yeah right. :lol:

SoClose
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Ivanovic

Noctis
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:04 PM
Beating Safina and Jankovic, two of the best(est) claycourters of the year, isn't hard? Yeah right. :lol:

A One Legged JJ+ She always win against her.
A Tired,Weakened,Not Fresh,Very slow Safina in the final
rest of her round was a cake draw.
So really.

Costanza
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:25 PM
A One Legged JJ+ She always win against her.
A Tired,Weakened,Not Fresh,Very slow Safina in the final
rest of her round was a cake draw.
So really.

Excuses, excuses:rolleyes:

SV_Fan
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Just a question didnt an erratic error venus take Myskina to 2 tiebrakes?

shirley
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Anastasia Myskina's win in 2004

Filippo-Nastya
Sep 20th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Just a question didnt an erratic error venus take Myskina to 2 tiebrakes?

No, Myskina won 6-3, 6-4 against Venus. ;)

Matt01
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:21 PM
A One Legged JJ+ She always win against her.
A Tired,Weakened,Not Fresh,Very slow Safina in the final
rest of her round was a cake draw.
So really.

:rolleyes:

I think you are confusing RG with AO. At AO Jankovic was one legged when she lost to Pova, at RG she played a high-quality match against Ana. (And Ana's match against Dinara in the final wasn't bad, either.)

Dave.
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:27 PM
I think it's insulting to our sport to suggest that someone can win a major title by fluke. So what if they don't quite match up to the other slam winners of their era (Majoli and Myskina- I have every confidence Ivanovic will add to her slam tally), it doesn't mean they weren't deserving champions. Myskina for example, had a very, very fine career which is complemented by that slam win. Don't forget she was within points of an Olympic medal, and more importantly, the world number 1 ranking. That French Open win isn't the only thing she can boast about of her career. The multiple slam champions/world number 1's/all-time greats are special, they are truly great players. But just because the likes of Myskina/Majoli didn't quite get into that league doesn't make them bad/fluke players. They were still very fine players with fine careers and are still fully deserving tennis champions.