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mykarma
Sep 18th, 2008, 08:34 PM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.

samsung101
Sep 18th, 2008, 08:57 PM
And people have a lot of time to blog on websites and complain, meaning they have a computer, internet service,
and some form of income one way or another.....life sucks.


Get the chip off your shoulder, it's unattractive.


Privilege?

Harvard grad.
Princeton grad.
Yale grad.
Elite financial backers from high school days on
Mom put child in elite prep school.
As she pursued higher degrees of education.
His own kids attend an elite private school.
He's best buddies with a billionaire, and most of
the rich multi-millionaire Hollywood elite.


Growing up in middle class Alaska.
Paying for college yourself.
Being stuck in a POW camp for 5 1/2 years eating rats and
drinking urine.
Hubby works the night shift.

Huh, which is the elite group?


Barack and Michelle Obama are the American success story, rich, educated, successful,
handsome, and winners. Whine, whine, whine........be happy they are who they are.
Get out there and make a legitimate argument about what is so positive about them to
those around you.

Instead of whining so much.
Victicrats are unattractive in word and deed.


Since when is not aborting a baby a bad thing?
Amazing how this one thing irritates people so much.
It's her baby. Get over it. If they make it as a couple,great.
If they don't, they're with the 50% of an Americans who give love
together a try, and fail. That's life.

samsung101
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:02 PM
The country is half not white.
Get off your behind and vote.
Shockingly, many of those who happen not to be lily white will vote
for McCain-Palin....not most, but enough usually in each election.

Especially hispanic and asian voters.
Which is why the GOP and DNC will go so hard after them in the next 45 days or so.

Dawn Marie
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:04 PM
White priviledge is when a person gives an opinion it's called an opinion. When a black person gives an opinion it's called an attitude and or anger.
Mykarma great post.:):):)

Dawn Marie
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Most of the new registered voters are young college kids who ways of thinking of change. Sooner then later the old school mentality will die and fade away. The youth and the minorities will decide this election. HANDS DOWN!!

mykarma
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:29 PM
White priviledge is when a person gives an opinion it's called an opinion. When a black person gives an opinion it's called an attitude and or anger.
Mykarma great post.:):):)
Thank you. One of my white friends sent this to me.

mykarma
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:36 PM
And people have a lot of time to blog on websites and complain, meaning they have a computer, internet service,
and some form of income one way or another.....life sucks.


Get the chip off your shoulder, it's unattractive.


Privilege?

Harvard grad.
Princeton grad.
Yale grad.
Elite financial backers from high school days on
Mom put child in elite prep school.
As she pursued higher degrees of education.
His own kids attend an elite private school.
He's best buddies with a billionaire, and most of
the rich multi-millionaire Hollywood elite.


Growing up in middle class Alaska.
Paying for college yourself.
Being stuck in a POW camp for 5 1/2 years eating rats and
drinking urine.
Hubby works the night shift.

Huh, which is the elite group?


Barack and Michelle Obama are the American success story, rich, educated, successful,
handsome, and winners. Whine, whine, whine........be happy they are who they are.
Get out there and make a legitimate argument about what is so positive about them to
those around you.

Instead of whining so much.
Victicrats are unattractive in word and deed.


Since when is not aborting a baby a bad thing?
Amazing how this one thing irritates people so much.
It's her baby. Get over it. If they make it as a couple,great.
If they don't, they're with the 50% of an Americans who give love
together a try, and fail. That's life.
It appears as though some people are pretending they don't understand what "white privilege" is. So just in case
White privilege is a sociological concept that describes advantages purportedly enjoyed by white persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites) beyond that which is commonly experienced by non-white people in those same social, political, and economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). It differs from racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) or prejudice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice) in that a person benefiting from white privilege may not necessarily hold racist beliefs or prejudices themselves. Often, the person benefiting is unaware of his or her supposed privilege.

Ryan
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:55 PM
:rolleyes: So, the point of this is....

RVD
Sep 18th, 2008, 10:42 PM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.I personally found this an interesting, and accurate read.
Thanks mykarma.

I think people are getting caught up in the truth of these observations, and rather than discuss their accuracy, they tend to immediately lash out and accuse the messenger.

Guys, I seriously doubt that mykarma wrote this, but rather received it as an email.
I used to get stuff like this over email also. Some of it was silly crap, but some, enlightening and though-provoking.

If you don’t get it, then you haven’t been paying attention to what OTHERS have been going through in America.

Again, rather than shoot the messenger, why not discuss what's true or false about the topic (or each individual observation)? :shrug:

mykarma
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:14 PM
:rolleyes: So, the point of this is....
Since it has no effect on you obviously it has no point for you at all. :rolleyes:

mykarma
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE]I personally found this an interesting, and accurate read.
As didi I and that's why I posted it.


I think people are getting caught up in the truth of these observations, and rather than discuss their accuracy, they tend to immediately lash out and accuse the messenger.
That's generally the routine.


If you don’t get it, then you haven’t been paying attention to what OTHERS have been going through in America.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Again, rather than shoot the messenger, why not discuss what's true or false about the topic (or each individual observation)? :shrug:

Because we're not suppose to talk about things like that. shhhh

Scotso
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:48 PM
:rolleyes: So, the point of this is....

That all white people are evil, of course. Didn't you know?

In The Zone
Sep 18th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Why is this thread still open and why hasn't mykarma been punished?

Could someone really post this and replace white with black?

Really clear who the racists are around here.

Ryan
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:26 AM
This thread is to stay free of politics please. If things can't be discussed civilly this thread will be deleted.

abercrombieguy23
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:37 AM
White priviledge is when a person gives an opinion it's called an opinion. When a black person gives an opinion it's called an attitude and or anger.

Of course,

I mean look at Barack Obama when he gives an opinion people totally dismiss him as angry....

A black man is about to become president...

ring my bell when a gay man can even become a governor....most likely won't even happen in my lifetime

and don't give me that McGreevey BS

Serenita
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Great read!!

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:01 AM
Of course,

I mean look at Barack Obama when he gives an opinion people totally dismiss him as angry....

A black man is about to become president...

ring my bell when a gay man can even become a governor....most likely won't even happen in my lifetime

and don't give me that McGreevey BS
I don't know if it'll happen or not especially since there are so few gays in relationship to the population of this country, but Barney Frank, openly gay rep. from Mass. could probably win if he was ever interested in being the Governor of Mass. Barney is very popular and has been an excellent while in the house. .

Paneru
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:09 AM
Really clear who the racists are around here.

Indeed.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:13 AM
That all white people are evil, of course. Didn't you know?
Is that what you got from the post? :shrug:

Why is this thread still open and why hasn't mykarma been punished?

Could someone really post this and replace white with black?

Really clear who the racists are around here.
ITZ, on the serious side, I'd like to know why you think I should be punished and what type of punishment would satisfy you and would also like to know how posting this makes me a racist. White privilege is something that is real and could be a great learning tool for some that had not ever thought about their life from this perspective. I've already posted what white privilege means from a socological perspective and this is something that has been discussed on many levels in many panels so I don't get it.


This thread is to stay free of politics please. If things can't be discussed civilly this thread will be deleted.

Wanna cut and paste that statement to some other threads in here. :p

Thanx4nothin
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Thank you. One of my white friends sent this to me.

Fabulous post, and I'm white :worship:

Thanx4nothin
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:18 AM
Of course,

I mean look at Barack Obama when he gives an opinion people totally dismiss him as angry....

A black man is about to become president...

ring my bell when a gay man can even become a governor....most likely won't even happen in my lifetime
and don't give me that McGreevey BS

Fabulous point, and I'm not gay :worship:
I think a lot of ppl here are making great points. :)

RFSTB
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:26 AM
As crazy as the original post sounds, there's actually some truth to those points. However, I tried to picture Sarah Palin black, and Obama white, and I still came up with the same reservation for each of them:

One is too hick, the other too slick. Neither is electable IMO.

partbrit
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:30 AM
Here is the original White Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

And here is the Male Privilege Checklist: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:30 AM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.


I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article: http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html


From the article:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Drake1980
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:33 AM
:eek: Holy shit dudes!

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:44 AM
I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article: http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html (http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/%7Emcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html)


From the article:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Thank you

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:52 AM
I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article

How is it not racist? Making statements based on nothing but the race of a person is, by definition, racist.

I agree that white people control this society and have a disproportionate amount of power. But how does this post address that? How does it do anything but launch attacks on people? Attacks that, by the way, are completely ridiculous.

The idea that "when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter" or "when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy" are just the first two and already I have all the information I need to know about the tone and purpose of this article.

Everyone thinks Bristol Palin's pregnancy is a private matter? That means all, barring none. I can find probably 10 posts from 10 different people on this very forum attacking her, her family, everything about them over the fact that she was pregnant.

Yes, there are real issues hidden somewhere in this post about the treatment of minorities, but they're a side dish at best. The purpose of this is entirely political and extremely insulting. I don't think launching these kinds of attacks are at all a good way to initiate positive change. Outright lies might benefit politicians, but if you really want to change the way our society operates, you need to put forth something with a little more substance and a little less venom.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:58 AM
How is it not racist? Making statements based on nothing but the race of a person is, by definition, racist.

I agree that white people control this society and have a disproportionate amount of power. But how does this post address that? How does it do anything but launch attacks on people? Attacks that, by the way, are completely ridiculous.

The idea that "when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter" or "when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy" are just the first two and already I have all the information I need to know about the tone and purpose of this article.

Everyone thinks Bristol Palin's pregnancy is a private matter? That means all, barring none. I can find probably 10 posts from 10 different people on this very forum attacking her, her family, everything about them over the fact that she was pregnant.

Yes, there are real issues hidden somewhere in this post about the treatment of minorities, but they're a side dish at best. The purpose of this is entirely political and extremely insulting. I don't think launching these kinds of attacks are at all a good way to initiate positive change. Outright lies might benefit politicians, but if you really want to change the way our society operates, you need to put forth something with a little more substance and a little less venom.

Racism isn't saying "white people are the problem." Racism is saying "white people are the problem and need to descend from their position of power because they're inherently inferior to black people." You'll never hear anyone say that. The idea that black people are dumber, lazier, more violent, less beautiful, and generally inferior to white people, however, is everywhere, whether it's obvious or subtle.

Clearly, not every white person is marching around with a white hood and cloak on. But racism is part of our social structure and it's unavoidable. I fall victim to it. My university is very predominantly white, and when I see a minority, I try really hard not to wonder if they're there because of affirmative action, but we're taught to think like that. It sucks. A white person would never have to deal with someone asking him if he only got into a school because of his skin color. That's white privilege, and it's real.

Bringing up these issues isn't racist, and it's certainly not more racist than pretending they don't exist.

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:09 AM
Racism isn't saying "white people are the problem."

You can redefine words to suit your argument in any situation, but making a generalization about the entire population of a racial group is racist.

As I said, it's clear that society needs to change. It's clear that racism still exists. But the idea that white people (all white people?), and white people alone, are the problem is simply incorrect and insulting.

I am more than willing to work for social equality, but the whole "white privilege" philosophy and the idea that somehow all white people are to blame is just as silly to me as the concept of original sin. I refuse to feel bad about the fact that I was born white, just as I think it's stupid for people to view someone as inferior because they were born black.

Dividing the world into black and white is what got us into this problem, continuing to make it about black vs. white (privilege) is not going to solve it.

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:16 AM
Dividing the world into black and white is what got us into this problem, continuing to make it about black vs. white (privilege) is not going to solve it.

The world IS divided like that though. Just look around you. I don't think we can stop talking about it as a black/white world until all the problems that arose from initially viewing it as such are gone. Inequality in housing, the job market, etc. aren't going to go away if we just call everyone equal and move on.

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:19 AM
The world IS divided like that though. Just look around you. I don't think we can stop talking about it as a black/white world until all the problems that arose from initially viewing it as such are gone. Inequality in housing, the job market, etc. aren't going to go away if we just call everyone equal and move on.

And do you really believe that such attacks on "white people" are going to make them receptive to these issues?

Posts like the original one are only going to ensure that equality won't happen.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:21 AM
I think that the world has become so perception driven that total equality will never exist. I mean women and men aren't fully equal even now, nor are black and white. We can see clear social divides also gay and straight, attractive and unattractive etc. the most petty of things cause divisions. I fear we may eternally strive for a state of equality we as a whole people will never truly allow to surface. Such a shame people are people at the end of the day.

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:30 AM
And do you really believe that such attacks on "white people" are going to make them receptive to these issues?

Posts like the original one are only going to ensure that equality won't happen.

Probably not :unsure:

But a big part of that is people's unwillingness to even admit that white privilege even exists. It's very hard to bring up this issue without it coming across as a personal attack. And even if the original post was more, er, venomous that it could have been, it's better than pretending than there's no such thing as white privilege.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:30 AM
You can redefine words to suit your argument in any situation, but making a generalization about the entire population of a racial group is racist.

As I said, it's clear that society needs to change. It's clear that racism still exists. But the idea that white people (all white people?), and white people alone, are the problem is simply incorrect and insulting.

I am more than willing to work for social equality, but the whole "white privilege" philosophy and the idea that somehow all white people are to blame is just as silly to me as the concept of original sin. I refuse to feel bad about the fact that I was born white, just as I think it's stupid for people to view someone as inferior because they were born black.

Dividing the world into black and white is what got us into this problem, continuing to make it about black vs. white (privilege) is not going to solve it.
Scotsc, I really think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of this debate. It' not about blaming anyone or making anyone feel bad, white privilege is one of the norms of our society and I guess that's why it upsets some people so.Whether you admit it or deny it, it still exist. This is so engrained in our society that it's not something that people that it doesn't affect can even see. Instead of jumping on the defense and denying it, try to look at it and see if you can learn something. For you to just being aware that it exist will make a world of difference in how you see things and people.

You say that this is racist but it's racist on what side. To deny or admit that something exist doesn't change the fact that it exist. To continue to be silent certainly won't make it disappear. Dialogue is the best way to learn and educate. How about trying to learn something instead of going off on a rampage and accusing people that live it racist. I don't know old you are but white privilege in this country is alive and well.

I'm taking the liberty of posting the explanation of what this particular persons says white privilege is and without a doubt says that it doesn't mean that a person that might even gain from white privilege is either racist or prejudice. .

White privilege is a sociological concept that describes advantages purportedly enjoyed by white persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites) beyond that which is commonly experienced by non-white people in those same social, political, and economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). It differs from racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) or prejudice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice) in that a person benefiting from white privilege may not necessarily hold racist beliefs or prejudices themselves. Often, the person benefiting is unaware of his or her supposed privilege.

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:30 AM
I think that the world has become so perception driven that total equality will never exist. I mean women and men aren't fully equal even now, nor are black and white. We can see clear social divides also gay and straight, attractive and unattractive etc. the most petty of things cause divisions. I fear we may eternally strive for a state of equality we as a whole people will never truly allow to surface. Such a shame people are people at the end of the day.

You're right that total equality will never exist, but that's also because people aren't equal. But I do believe some measure of social equality is possible, where society as a whole judges people not on their appearance, but on their merits. You're never going to have everyone being fair, because as you say, people are people. But it is entirely possible to eliminate institutionalized discrimination based on appearance and other things completely irrelevant.

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Scotsc, I really think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of this debate. It' not about blaming anyone or making anyone feel bad, white privilege is one of the norms of our society and I guess that's why it upsets some people so.Whether you admit it or deny it, it still exist. This is so engrained in our society that it's not something that people that it doesn't affect can even see. Instead of jumping on the defense and denying it, try to look at it and see if you can learn something. For you to just being aware that it exist will make a world of difference in how you see things and people.

You say that this is racist but it's racist on what side. To deny or admit that something exist doesn't change the fact that it exist. To continue to be silent certainly want make it disappear. Dialogue is the best way to learn and educate. How about trying to learn something instead of going off on a rampage and accusing people that live it racist. I don't know old you are but white privilege in this country is alive and well.

I'm taking he liberty of posting the explanation of white this particular persons says white privilege is and it without a doubt says that it doesn't mean that a person that might even gain from white privilege is either racist or prejudice. .

I haven't denied that racism is institutionalized in this country, but the original post goes far beyond the limits of acceptable criticism and into the realm of personal attacks.

The original post DID blame people, and it specifically listed and attacked people in a way that was completely unnecessary and insulting. That's not the way to get people to listen to your message.

I understand that racism and bigotry are alive and well in this country. I see it every day. And it isn't as though I live a charmed life free of discrimination... growing up a gay Jew in the Bible Belt isn't exactly a social utopia. I really do share your desire to end racism and change our society for the better, I just don't necessarily agree with you all on the proper solutions.

Richard_from_Cal
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:44 AM
This thread is to stay free of politics please. If things can't be discussed civilly this thread will be deleted.
??????

You know, I joined a denomination of a religion...and when I did, a person associated with the hierarchy of that denomination told me: "When two or more of you are gathered together in his name...there's politics there also."

Wigglytuff
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:49 AM
That all white people are evil, of course. Didn't you know?

wow, just wow! did you even read the post?

Richard_from_Cal
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:54 AM
This thread is to stay free of politics please. If things can't be discussed civilly this thread will be deleted.
??????

You know, I joined a denomination of a religion...and when I did, a person associated with the hierarchy of that denomination told me: "When two or more of you are gathered together in his name...there's politics there also."

Suppression of ideas, opinions, or ardency is well-near the end.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:55 AM
I haven't denied that racism is institutionalized in this country, but the original post goes far beyond the limits of acceptable criticism and into the realm of personal attacks.

The original post DID blame people, and it specifically listed and attacked people in a way that was completely unnecessary and insulting. That's not the way to get people to listen to your message.

I understand that racism and bigotry are alive and well in this country. I see it every day. And it isn't as though I live a charmed life free of discrimination... growing up a gay Jew in the Bible Belt isn't exactly a social utopia. I really do share your desire to end racism and change our society for the better, I just don't necessarily agree with you all on the proper solutions.
This is not about racism and bigotry. It's about how things are seen through different eyes based on a persons race. All white people benefit from white racism whether you're male, female, gay,or straight. It's just a way of life and all white people gain from it. You'll never understand living any other way because it is what it is. The closest that any white person has come to understanding is the guy that weote the book "Black like me" who dyed his skin and lived as a black man. He said that even when he was going through this experience he always knew that he was white and it was a temporary. thing. He was so surprised because of the way people who knew him as a white man treated him differently than they did as a blackman. I'm not sure since it's been a long time since I read the book but I think even black people treated him diffferently.

I know that you like Palin but disregard that part and just try and see what the author was trying to point out. If you google, "black like me", it'll tell you a lot about the book. It's really a good read.

Wigglytuff
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:56 AM
It appears as though some people are pretending they don't understand what "white privilege" is. So just in case
White privilege is a sociological concept that describes advantages purportedly enjoyed by white persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whites) beyond that which is commonly experienced by non-white people in those same social, political, and economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). It differs from racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) or prejudice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice) in that a person benefiting from white privilege may not necessarily hold racist beliefs or prejudices themselves. Often, the person benefiting is unaware of his or her supposed privilege.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

AcesHigh
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:59 AM
]
:spit:

:help: The delusion!!

Wigglytuff
Sep 19th, 2008, 04:59 AM
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race. :worship:

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.


:worship: :worship:

THAT is white privilege

RVD
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:27 AM
I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article: http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html


From the article:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.WOW!! Incredible post.
Thanks for that. :worship:

le bon vivant
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:31 AM
After all of these years on this board, are yall not tired of having the same debate and trying to convince the same people that you're more right than they are re: racial issues in particular?

And this applies to posters on both sides of the argument. After 6 years, no one has budged.

mandy7
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:44 AM
I take the tram from central station to work every morning and afternoon, and there's always someone there who checks the tickets,
i'm often the only white person on there, and seem to be te only person those people do not ask to show a ticket..

is that white privelege or just racism?

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:45 AM
I know that you like Palin but disregard that part and just try and see what the author was trying to point out. If you google, "black like me", it'll tell you a lot about the book. It's really a good read.

Who said I like Palin?

I'll look for the book.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:19 PM
]
:spit:

:help: The delusion!!
I see they deleted the post you responded to. Good job by the mods.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:27 PM
I take the tram from central station to work every morning and afternoon, and there's always someone there who checks the tickets,
i'm often the only white person on there, and seem to be te only person those people do not ask to show a ticket..

is that white privelege or just racism?
That's funny and I'm sure that you're not the only person whose ticket doesn't get checked even though he might seem like it. :lol:

Anyhow, I would say that it's white privilege and it would be racism if your ticket was the only ticket that got checked assuming that the people collecting the tickets were black.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:29 PM
After all of these years on this board, are yall not tired of having the same debate and trying to convince the same people that you're more right than they are re: racial issues in particular?

And this applies to posters on both sides of the argument. After 6 years, no one has budged.
Everyone has not been on here for six years and racism is such an important part of our society if one person understands another then something was gained, IMO.

mandy7
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:35 PM
That's funny and I'm sure that you're not the only person whose ticket doesn't get checked even though he might seem like it. :lol:
i always sit in the back, or a least close to it, and trust me on this one.. i usually am the only one who doesn't get checked
Anyhow, I would say that it's white privilege and it would be racism if your ticket was the only ticket that got checked assuming that the people collecting the tickets were black.
actually, since the people who do that work...usually aren't white.. it could just be plain odd :p
or i just look so damn innocent :lol:

(it's kinda sad that the people who get caught almost never are white
i totally enjoy the drama they cause when getting kicked off the tram though :o )

pov
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Re the original post. IMO - trite, distorted and doesn't make a viable case.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:40 PM
i always sit in the back, or a least close to it, and trust me on this one.. i usually am the only one who doesn't get checked

actually, since the people who do that work...usually aren't white.. it could just be plain odd :p
or i just look so damn innocent :lol:

(it's kinda sad that the people who get caught almost never are white
i totally enjoy the drama they cause when getting kicked off the tram though :o )
When I'm being followed around a store I always hope that some white thief is stealing them blind. :devil:

mandy7
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:47 PM
When I'm being followed around a store I always hope that some white thief is stealing them blind. :devil:
the white ppl who get kicked off the trams are drunks, the non white (too many different nationalities to list in rotterdam :p) people who get kicked off are scummy school kids, and we got a lot of those in rotterdam...a lot..

the drunks are fun, they're entertaining

the kids are just plain rude and yell out crap in their own language

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:55 PM
the white ppl who get kicked off the trams are drunks, the non white (too many different nationalities to list in rotterdam :p) people who get kicked off are scummy school kids, and we got a lot of those in rotterdam...a lot..

the drunks are fun, they're entertaining

the kids are just plain rude and yell out crap in their own language
Don't dispair, some of those same scummy school kids are on their way to being those funny drunks.

Marshmallow
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I didn't read all of the original post - too long and I'm multi-tasking ATM (will read later) - but I think it's a thought provoking read, and really raising some fabulous points. I watched on of Chris Rock's comedy shows the other day - he is really an intelligent man I recommend more people watch his shows :lol:, and one of his points/jokes was how George Bush is a C grade student and he's made it to the white house, could a black C grade student even dream that high? It's not an accurate assessment of potential social mobility, but there is substance to it. There is substance to the original post.

Egalite's post looks very interesting too, but I had to scroll down to see the end... so marked to read later if ever :lol:.

It's a little *sigh* how some posters have just seemed to get on the defensive/offensive with respect to the post, even a MOD I might add! At the same time, on the whole it's become apparant with shows like Black in America, and what not, that highlighting the issues for the general public to gain an understanding can only go so far, actually they can be pretty ineffective in bringing bout change - though they can. It seems more important IMO to empower the black community, black males in particular with this knowledge, and knowledge of their active role and control over how high they aspire and end up. That's the direction I think things should go, because you can't rely on outside help for change - it really has to come from within.

But good stuff :D

Ryan
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:05 PM
It's a little *sigh* how some posters have just seemed to get on the defensive/offensive with respect to the post, even a MOD I might add! At the same time, on the whole it's become apparant with shows like Black in America, and what not, that highlighting the issues for the general public to gain an understanding can only go so far, actually they can be pretty ineffective in bringing bout change - though they can. It seems more important IMO to empower the black community, black males in particular with this knowledge, and knowledge of their active role and control over how high they aspire and end up. That's the direction I think things should go, because you can't rely on outside help for change - it really has to come from within.

But good stuff :D


Is there any reason in particular you have a problem with me? I'm allowed to react any way I want to a post, just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or express myself as I see fit. Personally, I think the original post is meant to incite a negative reaction from white people, and I don't find it all that enlightening or helpful. Ever a MOD (omigodwemustbespecial) can roll their eyes once and awhile. :p

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:27 PM
I didn't read all of the original post - too long and I'm multi-tasking ATM (will read later) - but I think it's a thought provoking read, and really raising some fabulous points. I watched on of Chris Rock's comedy shows the other day - he is really an intelligent man I recommend more people watch his shows :lol:, and one of his points/jokes was how George Bush is a C grade student and he's made it to the white house, could a black C grade student even dream that high? It's not an accurate assessment of potential social mobility, but there is substance to it. There is substance to the original post.

Egalite's post looks very interesting too, but I had to scroll down to see the end... so marked to read later if ever :lol:.

It's a little *sigh* how some posters have just seemed to get on the defensive/offensive with respect to the post, even a MOD I might add! At the same time, on the whole it's become apparant with shows like Black in America, and what not, that highlighting the issues for the general public to gain an understanding can only go so far, actually they can be pretty ineffective in bringing bout change - though they can. It seems more important IMO to empower the black community, black males in particular with this knowledge, and knowledge of their active role and control over how high they aspire and end up. That's the direction I think things should go, because you can't rely on outside help for change - it really has to come from within.

But good stuff :D
:worship::worship::worship:

Marshmallow
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Is there any reason in particular you have a problem with me? I'm allowed to react any way I want to a post, just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or express myself as I see fit. Personally, I think the original post is meant to incite a negative reaction from white people, and I don't find it all that enlightening or helpful. Ever a MOD (omigodwemustbespecial) can roll their eyes once and awhile. :p

I don't think Mykarma posted this thread to incite a negative reaction, I believe it was more to raise awareness of a very real phenomenon, MAYBE even as a small attempt to inspire a discussion or change n attitudes, perceptions etc. And I don't have a personal problem with you, but I'm noticing your posts a bit more especially seeing you do stuff I'm not exactly agreeing with. But maybe I have unrealistic expctations of Mods... but see anyone can be a mod... I wanna be a Mod! How can I be one?

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:02 PM
Is there any reason in particular you have a problem with me? I'm allowed to react any way I want to a post, just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or express myself as I see fit. Personally, I think the original post is meant to incite a negative reaction from white people, and I don't find it all that enlightening or helpful. Ever a MOD (omigodwemustbespecial) can roll their eyes once and awhile. :p
Interesting that my white friend is the one that emailed this to me because she thought it was right on. Just goes to show that it depends where a person is in their life.

I certainly didn't make the post to incite a negative response from anyone. As a matter of fact, I was surprised at the response since it's a fact a life that black people and obviously some whites know exist. What's even more surprising is that white people are so ignorant of these facts. :shrug:

it's mind blogging to me that some people on this board who are the recipients of this privilege are the ones that are so insulted that the topic was even brought to light. As a matter of fact one poster ask that I be punished for posting it, whatever that means.

Ryan, I'm aware of how you felt about the post since you initially closed it. I'm also know that you're aware that many people disagreed with you and you did the right thing by opening it again even if you moved it, :p and I thank you for that.

mandy7
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:38 PM
i must say something about the ¨flesh-colour¨ bandages thingy...
if you all really wanna make a statement, just wear sesame street bandaids, they're much cooler

but seriously now, i think that example show that some people are jus trying to find shit to nag about
it's a f-ing bandage for crying out loud.. i agree with a lot of things in that list of things 'that are wrong with today's society' on page 1
but number 46 is a load of crap
and it never bothered nelly, so why would it bother other people...

Sam L
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Interesting that my white friend is the one that emailed this to me because she thought it was right on. Just goes to show that it depends where a person is in their life.

I agree. I would've disagreed with this a few years ago but now I think it's spot on. The most despicable I think is the daughter's boyfriend and how he can get away with being a "redneck". I mean he was at the RNC and everything and they were applauding him. For what? :rolleyes:

As a matter of fact one poster ask that I be punished for posting it, whatever that means.

LOL yeah that was hilarious. And it means a spanking by griffin, obviously. :p

Bijoux0021
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Is there any reason in particular you have a problem with me? I'm allowed to react any way I want to a post, just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or express myself as I see fit. Personally, I think the original post is meant to incite a negative reaction from white people, and I don't find it all that enlightening or helpful. Ever a MOD (omigodwemustbespecial) can roll their eyes once and awhile. :p
It's sad you think that way. White people who are open minded will find Mykarma's original post enlightening and helpful. It's important to discuss these kinds of issues and try to understand other people's everyday life experiences. The world will never be a better place if some people are not willing to acknowledge the differences in treatment of other races.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I agree. I would've disagreed with this a few years ago but now I think it's spot on. The most despicable I think is the daughter's boyfriend and how he can get away with being a "redneck". I mean he was at the RNC and everything and they were applauding him. For what? :rolleyes:


:worship::worship::worship:

LOL yeah that was hilarious. And it means a spanking by griffin, obviously. :p
I like Griff, where is she. :lol:

IceHock
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:22 PM
bullshittttt, get's brought up all the time on here, it's annoying

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:26 PM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.


your most scintillating post eva :hearts:

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:32 PM
I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article: http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html


From the article:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

another great post. :hearts:

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:34 PM
That all white people are evil, of course. Didn't you know?

yep, i sure do. :lol:

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:36 PM
This thread is to stay free of politics please. If things can't be discussed civilly this thread will be deleted.

you are so not a good mod. :lol:

no politics? this is a thread about race. it is inevitable.

why don't you guy just post a list of things that should not be discussed at wtaworld/tennisforum if you're going to take up that mantle.

Cat's Pajamas
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:38 PM
I agree. I would've disagreed with this a few years ago but now I think it's spot on. The most despicable I think is the daughter's boyfriend and how he can get away with being a "redneck". I mean he was at the RNC and everything and they were applauding him. For what? :rolleyes:

Someone is despicable because they would refer to themself as a redneck? You act like it is some crime :confused:

Sounds to me like you are the bigot. :shrug:

stevos
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Hi.
I'm white.
I agreed with almost every part of this original post.

I also think another thread could be made in the same vein, in terms of the difference between Hillary and Palin. Or you could just watch that SNL sketch.
I had no idea some posters here believe that this is offensive or unwarranted. I thought the evidence was pretty well placed out for you.

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Someone is despicable because they would refer to themself as a redneck? You act like it is some crime :confused:

Sounds to me like you are the bigot. :shrug:


this is in the context of a discussion about "double standards."

meaning, whites can get away with things that blacks cannot.

for instance, a white boy like levi can call himself a redneck, a lover of guns, drink, partying and embrace all of those "redneck" values.

his black male counterpart, who also likes guns, screwing teenage girls, drinking, partying, and being uneducated and low class/ghetto is escoriated, demonized and called a social pariah.

it's so incredible to me that people cannot see the differences in treatment but then i guess that's why issues related to race keep resurfacing.

cornell west is fond of talking about the socratic method - self-analysis/examination. he implies that white people don't look inward and look at themselves and examine who they are in relation to others and each other.

why don't you do that? look at yourself. there's nothing wrong with it.

saying someone has white skinned privilege is just another way of saying you are not the "other," philosophically speaking.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 05:59 PM
bullshittttt, get's brought up all the time on here, it's annoying
Guess you like being annoyed since you're in here.

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:00 PM
The saddest thing in my life is that i have gotten used to racial abuse :o

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Hi.
I'm white.
I agreed with almost every part of this original post.

I also think another thread could be made in the same vein, in terms of the difference between Hillary and Palin. Or you could just watch that SNL sketch.
I had no idea some posters here believe that this is offensive or unwarranted. I thought the evidence was pretty well placed out for you.
:worship::worship::worship:

miffedmax
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.

woosey
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:03 PM
The saddest thing in my life is that i have gotten used to racial abuse :o

dam.

it's true. you do get used to being dehumanized in the most subtle of ways. sometimes, it can be like a feather knocking you to the ground.

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:03 PM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.

:hearts:

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:06 PM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.
Great post as always

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:12 PM
dam.

it's true. you do get used to being dehumanized in the most subtle of ways. sometimes, it can be like a feather knocking you to the ground.

:sad:

I agree with max, this subject can never get over-discussed.

mirzalover
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:15 PM
The saddest thing in my life is that i have gotten used to racial abuse :o

:sad:



I'm coming to London in 2 weeks. Im fucking somebody up for messing with you:fiery:

stevos
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Guess you like being annoyed since you're in here.

His name is IceHock.
I don't like to judge based on names, but to my knowledge of Ice Hockey players (and I know many) they aren't too enlightened.

Max's post almost made we want to tear up for some reason?
I'm going through menopause?

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Sweet :)

I really can't believe i haven't reported any of the incidents because they have been quite serious. I can't blame anyone but me:shrug:

Dodoboy.
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:32 PM
His name is IceHock.
I don't like to judge based on names, but to my knowledge of Ice Hockey players (and I know many) they aren't too enlightened.

Max's post almost made we want to tear up for some reason?
I'm going through menopause?

Steve :speakles:

Cat's Pajamas
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:35 PM
this is in the context of a discussion about "double standards."

meaning, whites can get away with things that blacks cannot.

for instance, a white boy like levi can call himself a redneck, a lover of guns, drink, partying and embrace all of those "redneck" values.

his black male counterpart, who also likes guns, screwing teenage girls, drinking, partying, and being uneducated and low class/ghetto is escoriated, demonized and called a social pariah.

it's so incredible to me that people cannot see the differences in treatment but then i guess that's why issues related to race keep resurfacing.

cornell west is fond of talking about the socratic method - self-analysis/examination. he implies that white people don't look inward and look at themselves and examine who they are in relation to others and each other.

why don't you do that? look at yourself. there's nothing wrong with it.

saying someone has white skinned privilege is just another way of saying you are not the "other," philosophically speaking.

First of all I never denied that white privilege exists. :shrug: It does.

Second of all I never stated that I thought Bristol Palin's fiancee (his name is Levi I'm assuming) was a great guy. :shrug:

What I do think is wrong is that everyone is trying to exploit them, make a mockery of them. Every family has its issues that it needs to work out behind closed doors, without the whole country trying to prop the door with its foot. I would say the same for the Obama family. I think it's wrong how some of the media stalks Michelle and looks for any reason to denounce her, like why she was not present for the 9/11 ceremony. Ultimately, I think people care way too much about other people's lives, but that's a whole another issue with gossip magazines and such. :o

I would say both young men you described should be considered low-lifes. :shrug: It's obvious the lack discipline and respect for women. The only thing I would say is different is the context of why they might enjoy guns. A lot of "rednecks" as some would call them enjoy shooting as a pass-time. ala hunting, or shooting targets. It's not my ideal hobby but to each their own.

And I don't really know who Cornell West, but that comment in and of itself is stupid. I consider myself a very reflective person, and basically he is saying white people enjoy living in their own ignorance, of course a lot do, but to imply the whole race...:rolleyes:

Yes there are racists in this country, and yes there are many white people who have inherent privilege over black people. It's not right, but sitting here insulting and complaining about the Palin family is not going to fix it. How to go about that is also another entirely different issue that hopefully will someday be addressed by our government. I think we need to improve the education systems in our inner-city populations. In no way am I saying blacks are not as intelligent, but the schools just aren't as good as many suburban areas. Students need equal educations and an equal platform to start from. If we can give everyone the same start value, the best and the brightest of all people will succeed. Yay Capitalism ! (when it's not to out of scale :o)

Nicolás89
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:58 PM
I agree with the escenceof the OP but that the post was constantly plagued with "white privilege is.." makes it sound as an anger statement, if it isn't anyways. Ending with "white privilege is the problem" sounds a lot more hateful and may I add that it isn't "the problem" the problem is "money privilege" and white people have the money, I think that whoever that has the money will always get privilege putting aside it's race.

mykarma
Sep 19th, 2008, 08:49 PM
His name is IceHock.
I don't like to judge based on names, but to my knowledge of Ice Hockey players (and I know many) they aren't too enlightened.

Max's post almost made we want to tear up for some reason?
I'm going through menopause?

I agree with the escenceof the OP but that the post was constantly plagued with "white privilege is.." makes it sound as an anger statement, if it isn't anyways. Ending with "white privilege is the problem" sounds a lot more hateful and may I add that it isn't "the problem" the problem is "money privilege" and white people have the money, I think that whoever that has the money will always get privilege putting aside it's race.
Point taken, like I said I received it in an email so I didn't write it and yes money means a lot in a persons day to day life but you can tell from the piece that this goes beyond wealth. This is an inherent privilege that begins at birth.

Nicolás89
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:24 PM
Point taken, like I said I received it in an email so I didn't write it and yes money means a lot in a persons day to day life but you can tell from the piece that this goes beyond wealth. This is an inherent privilege that begins at birth.

I just don't see it like that because a real poor white family won't get more privilege than a real poor black family in education and health.

A black / white homeless person gets the same discrimination or help. The same for mentally ill people.

Nobody wants a convicted person around them, they don't care if it's black or white.

All these people do not have money so gets less privilege from the rest for being so poor their situation would only change with money not with a different skin colour.

le bon vivant
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Everyone has not been on here for six years and racism is such an important part of our society if one person understands another then something was gained, IMO.Important?

Its only as important as you make it.

partbrit
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:13 PM
...this subject can never get over-discussed.

Agreed. And neither can male privilege, which is why I posted the Male Privilege Checklist, too.

No Name Face
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:16 PM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.

:yeah: This is so right on. The issue is that it's not conscious, this white privilege, but it's everywhere. I don't really get hung up on it because I'm a staunch believer in that you create your own success and your own privilege, BUT I do realize what these stereotypes and double standards do to subjugate blacks (including myself). It's not fair.

That all white people are evil, of course. Didn't you know?

You have this uncanny penchant for not getting the point. Why don't you go drool over some little (white) boys and let the grownups talk?

No Name Face
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:19 PM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.

If you ran for president, I would consider voting for you over Obama. ;) Kidding.
Excellent post, I salute you.

égalité
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Important?

Its only as important as you make it.

Just like cancer goes away if you ignore it.

No Name Face
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:25 PM
bullshittttt, get's brought up all the time on here, it's annoying

What exactly do you know about ANYTHING? Even if you don't agree with it, how can you say it's bullshit? These are clearly valid points, not shrouded in hypocrisy and half-truths (re: Sarah Palin's campaign).

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:54 PM
this is in the context of a discussion about "double standards."

for instance, a white boy like levi can call himself a redneck, a lover of guns, drink, partying and embrace all of those "redneck" values.

his black male counterpart, who also likes guns, screwing teenage girls, drinking, partying, and being uneducated and low class/ghetto is escoriated, demonized and called a social pariah.

The solution, then, should be to eliminate the judgement of black people in such a manner, not to subject white people to the same ridiculous standards. Again, the "eye for an eye," "they started it" argument is nothing more than childish vengence. Our goal should be to treat all people equally fairly, not to level the same attacks on white people. That's what the original post does, and it solves nothing.

cornell west is fond of talking about the socratic method - self-analysis/examination. he implies that white people don't look inward and look at themselves and examine who they are in relation to others and each other.

why don't you do that? look at yourself. there's nothing wrong with it.

Again, this is a rather racist statement, and it's sad that you don't see your own double standards. Somehow CP doesn't "look at [himself]" merely because he is white? I don't understand why someone can't see that applying some stereotype to all people of a race is racist, even if they're white.

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:56 PM
And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it?

Who suggested that?

Scotso
Sep 19th, 2008, 11:57 PM
His name is IceHock.
I don't like to judge based on names, but to my knowledge of Ice Hockey players (and I know many) they aren't too enlightened.

:help:

You post in this thread to attack discrimination, and then you launch an attack on an entire group. Do you know all ice hockey players? Absolutely ridiculous post.

Scotso
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:01 AM
You have this uncanny penchant for not getting the point. Why don't you go drool over some little (white) boys and let the grownups talk?

Wow, you've gone from being one of the people whose opinion I respected to being a complete asshole. Did you not bother to read my other posts in this thread? That first post was complete sarcasm towards a poster that everyone knows I don't like at all. It's not my fault you're not bright enough to see it.

And do you really think calling me a pedophile is going to help you fight racism? And you think I need to grow up?! You really need to apologize, that was way out of line.

darrinbaker00
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:06 AM
:help:

You post in this thread to attack discrimination, and then you launch an attack on an entire group. Do you know all ice hockey players? Absolutely ridiculous post.
Stevos was joking. If you hadn't had your sense of humor surgically removed, you would have realized that.

Scotso
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:16 AM
Stevos was joking. If you hadn't had your sense of humor surgically removed, you would have realized that.

Speaking of which, maybe there's a surgery you can have to remove your head from your ass.

darrinbaker00
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Speaking of which, maybe there's a surgery you can have to remove your head from your ass.
There is, but my HMO doesn't cover it. ;)

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:22 AM
Thank you. One of my white friends sent this to me.

:lol::lol::lol::o

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:30 AM
Is that what you got from the post? :shrug:


ITZ, on the serious side, I'd like to know why you think I should be punished and what type of punishment would satisfy you and would also like to know how posting this makes me a racist. White privilege is something that is real and could be a great learning tool for some that had not ever thought about their life from this perspective. I've already posted what white privilege means from a socological perspective and this is something that has been discussed on many levels in many panels so I don't get it.




Wanna cut and paste that statement to some other threads in here. :p

This is way too far above ITZ's head to comprehend.

The piece is very accurate and on point. It's something that most blacks on this site have been trying to tell the closed-minded without success. Stuff like this falls on deaf ears of some, because the truth hurts. It opens wounds that no one wants to deal with. Unfortunately, the dumb will think that you are racist just for posting it, the rest of us will be accused of being racist because we agree with it. I don't understand why some people do not want to open the dialogue on this issue, have an open mind, listen and be empathetic and stop invalidating this experience that every black person in America experiences every day. It's sad.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:37 AM
I recommend that anyone who disagrees with this post or finds it somehow "racist" read this article: http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html


From the article:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

:worship::worship::worship: Great post.

And see, the irony is that you can post that without being accused of being a racist or playing the race card, or being invalidated in some other way, because you are not black.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:53 AM
Is there any reason in particular you have a problem with me? I'm allowed to react any way I want to a post, just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or express myself as I see fit. Personally, I think the original post is meant to incite a negative reaction from white people, and I don't find it all that enlightening or helpful. Ever a MOD (omigodwemustbespecial) can roll their eyes once and awhile. :p

Personally and I don't know why now, I gave you more credit for being more intelligent and open-minded on subjects like this. I have to say, I'm disappointed.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 02:59 AM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.

OMG just :worship::worship::worship:

LOL at Greedy Dumbfuck Party :haha: :haha: :haha:

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:01 AM
dam.

it's true. you do get used to being dehumanized in the most subtle of ways. sometimes, it can be like a feather knocking you to the ground.

I think we are all there. Sometimes it's so astounding that it's hilarious.

Nicolás89
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:11 AM
Racism isn't saying "white people are the problem." Racism is saying "white people are the problem and need to descend from their position of power because they're inherently inferior to black people." You'll never hear anyone say that.

No because only by saying "white people are the problem" you can easily fill the blank with the rest, well until the inferiority part but I mean that you don't need to be explicit to be offensive or racist if you want to.

The inferiority statement is just one of many arguments to make racism out of, anyway.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:16 AM
First of all I never denied that white privilege exists. :shrug: It does.

Second of all I never stated that I thought Bristol Palin's fiancee (his name is Levi I'm assuming) was a great guy. :shrug:

What I do think is wrong is that everyone is trying to exploit them, make a mockery of them. Every family has its issues that it needs to work out behind closed doors, without the whole country trying to prop the door with its foot.

If they wanted to keep it private, she should never have accepted the VP nom and put her daughter and family in this situation. She put them in the spotlight, so they have to deal with the fall out. She's a political candidate and everything about her is going to be examined and either applauded or criticized.

And I don't really know who Cornell West, but that comment in and of itself is stupid. I consider myself a very reflective person, and basically he is saying white people enjoy living in their own ignorance, of course a lot do, but to imply the whole race...:rolleyes:

Just damn :weirdo:

"Stupid" and "Cornel West" do not belong in the same sentence, especially coming out of your mouth. Just sad :sobbing:

Just check out the following:
http://www.cornelwest.com/
http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=Cornel+West
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West
http://www.pragmatism.org/library/west/


I think we need to improve the education systems in our inner-city populations. In no way am I saying blacks are not as intelligent, but the schools just aren't as good as many suburban areas. Students need equal educations and an equal platform to start from. If we can give everyone the same start value, the best and the brightest of all people will succeed. Yay Capitalism ! (when it's not to out of scale :o)

Well, you're getting there, but you have a little ways to go.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:17 AM
I agree with the escenceof the OP but that the post was constantly plagued with "white privilege is.." makes it sound as an anger statement, if it isn't anyways. Ending with "white privilege is the problem" sounds a lot more hateful and may I add that it isn't "the problem" the problem is "money privilege" and white people have the money, I think that whoever that has the money will always get privilege putting aside it's race.

Trust me, it's not just money.

@Sweet Cleopatra
Sep 20th, 2008, 05:46 AM
It's stupid when people keep generalizing specific acts of specific person on all people who share his color , whether those persons are white or black ...

Kart
Sep 20th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Personally and I don't know why now, I gave you more credit for being more intelligent and open-minded on subjects like this.
On the contrary I'd credit him for not being afraid to share his opinion in a thread where the subject matter is clearly a sensitive issue for a lot of people. Many others would (and have looking at some of the deleted posts) retreated in haste.

I'd have thought there's little point in posting something as emotive as this unless you enter into dialogue with those that don't see your angle rather than dismiss them.

I'm not white nor am I an American so I don't imagine I'd be the best person to comment on this topic.

On a side point though, it's been educational in the fact that I've realised I've been misspelling 'privilege' for the last however many years :o.

Bijoux0021
Sep 20th, 2008, 09:46 AM
My brother sent me this article, and I found it very interesting and all too accurate, although I would add that economic issues also play a factor--though race still weighs heavily in that part of the equation so it does it to be something of a vicious circle.

And please, the solution to racism is to not talk about it? Yeah, right. Shut the hell up Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Abe Lincoln, W.E. Dubois, Martin Luther King etc.etc. because really, all that ruckus is just making things worse. And for God's sake Rosa, just go stand in the back of the bus and don't cause any trouble.

Everything will be just fine.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that the piece also highlights the hypocricy of a party that's campaigned on the image of welfare queens, benefits-hogging illegal immigrants and antiabortionism suddenly considers reproductive rights a "personal matter."

The Republican Party died in 1980s. It's as extinct as the Whigs and the Federalists. If they had one iota of honesty and decency left, they would change their name to the Greedy Dumbfuck Party. But they don't.
:worship::worship::worship:

Great post!

No Name Face
Sep 20th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Wow, you've gone from being one of the people whose opinion I respected to being a complete asshole. Did you not bother to read my other posts in this thread?

Oops.

I did read your other posts - needless to say, I was not impressed.


That first post was complete sarcasm towards a poster that everyone knows I don't like at all. It's not my fault you're not bright enough to see it. And do you really think calling me a pedophile is going to help you fight racism? And you think I need to grow up?! You really need to apologize, that was way out of line.

:lol: at this.

I don't keep tabs on who you like and who you don't like because it probably changes every week.

:rolls: @ you taking my little white boys comment literally. And I'm the one who's allegedly "not bright?" :lol:

Scotso
Sep 20th, 2008, 12:09 PM
:rolls: @ you taking my little white boys comment literally.

It wasn't funny. No matter what your intention, it was a horrible thing to say. Laugh about it all you want, but there's no excuse for it.

No Name Face
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:16 PM
It wasn't funny. No matter what your intention, it was a horrible thing to say. Laugh about it all you want, but there's no excuse for it.

Unfortunately for you, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's just funny to see you get bent out of shape about "allegedly" being called a pedophile, when your racism, ignorance, and stupidity is really the issue at hand. What you say and how you act are two totally different stories. There's a difference between being an open minded, progressive young man, and a bigoted asshole who doesn't even know how he comes off to people.

I honestly don't think you even belong in this thread. You've done nothing to show that you actually care about anything related to these issues. I can say that at a point, I was kind of misguided about racial issues - but I stand firm by many of my prior convictions. The difference between you and me is that I'm willing to say that I was wrong about some things. You just think that anyone who doesn't adhere to your narrow-minded parochial outlooks are "assholes," "not bright," "stupid." You, in your own mind, are never wrong. It's your attitude that will not bring change. And this, my friend, is the biggest irony of all. So you need to take your own head out of your own ass and realize that there is a such thing as white privilege. It's not about degrading another group of people. It's the simple acknowledgment of the fact that MANY, if not all, minorities (not just blacks) are ultimately affected and disenfranchised by privileges they will never have because of their race.

That's why there's nothing to apologize for when it comes to you, and people like you. I'm not any of these other people who don't like you, although we do share something in common. We all see you for who you currently are, and who you'll never be.

This doesn't just go for you, it goes for all the racist dumbasses who try to challenge an issue that is bigger than them. You have white people in this thread who may not agree 100% with what's being said, but they show a willingness to understand. From their point of view, it's not about putting whites down in order to make ourselves feel better. It's about calling attention to an issue that many white people think ended after the fucking Civil War.

*JR*
Sep 20th, 2008, 03:56 PM
For blacks (who are indeed still treated unequally in some ways, though thankfully far less than in "the bad old days") to raise this can easily have the effect of alienating whites. As Ryan said to keep politics out of this thread so it can stay in NT instead of the political subform, I won't mention any err, specific upcoming elections. ;)

BTW, the whites in places like Appalachia (who will have a lot to say about some upcoming election or other) :tape: would be surprised to know how "privileged" they supposedly are.

stevos
Sep 20th, 2008, 07:43 PM
:help:

You post in this thread to attack discrimination, and then you launch an attack on an entire group. Do you know all ice hockey players? Absolutely ridiculous post.

Way to take up the Hockey Player's Cause!
It was clearly a joke.

treufreund
Sep 20th, 2008, 07:59 PM
I like how SO FEW PEOPLE responded to the brilliant points showing how privileged the Obamas have been compared to McCain and Palin (whom I do not even support). I cannot vote for the Republicans but it sure does make me sick how the Dems are comparing McCain to Bush. Bush did not serve his country, whereas McCAIN was A PRISONER OF WAR and FOUGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM!!! ALL OF YOU!!!

égalité
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:03 PM
White privilege doesn't refer to MONEY, people. :help:

Obviously rich black people are "privileged" in a way.

White privilege is the ability to be successful without 1. being called a "credit to your race," and 2. having people attribute it to some sort of affirmative action.

It's also the ability not to have your faults attributed to your race.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:12 PM
On the contrary I'd credit him for not being afraid to share his opinion in a thread where the subject matter is clearly a sensitive issue for a lot of people. Many others would (and have looking at some of the deleted posts) retreated in haste.

I'd have thought there's little point in posting something as emotive as this unless you enter into dialogue with those that don't see your angle rather than dismiss them.

I'm not white nor am I an American so I don't imagine I'd be the best person to comment on this topic.

On a side point though, it's been educational in the fact that I've realised I've been misspelling 'privilege' for the last however many years :o.

On the contrary, I don't think that anyone is dimissing them who have a different opinion. Rather, I think they are dismissing us and trying to invalidate something that is very real to everyone in America. It's better to be open and honest and have a dialogue, than to bury our heads in the sand and think that everything is okay.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Unfortunately for you, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's just funny to see you get bent out of shape about "allegedly" being called a pedophile, when your racism, ignorance, and stupidity is really the issue at hand. What you say and how you act are two totally different stories. There's a difference between being an open minded, progressive young man, and a bigoted asshole who doesn't even know how he comes off to people.

I honestly don't think you even belong in this thread. You've done nothing to show that you actually care about anything related to these issues. I can say that at a point, I was kind of misguided about racial issues - but I stand firm by many of my prior convictions. The difference between you and me is that I'm willing to say that I was wrong about some things. You just think that anyone who doesn't adhere to your narrow-minded parochial outlooks are "assholes," "not bright," "stupid." You, in your own mind, are never wrong. It's your attitude that will not bring change. And this, my friend, is the biggest irony of all. So you need to take your own head out of your own ass and realize that there is a such thing as white privilege. It's not about degrading another group of people. It's the simple acknowledgment of the fact that MANY, if not all, minorities (not just blacks) are ultimately affected and disenfranchised by privileges they will never have because of their race.

That's why there's nothing to apologize for when it comes to you, and people like you. I'm not any of these other people who don't like you, although we do share something in common. We all see you for who you currently are, and who you'll never be.

This doesn't just go for you, it goes for all the racist dumbasses who try to challenge an issue that is bigger than them. You have white people in this thread who may not agree 100% with what's being said, but they show a willingness to understand. From their point of view, it's not about putting whites down in order to make ourselves feel better. It's about calling attention to an issue that many white people think ended after the fucking Civil War.

Wow!!!! :eek: I think this is the best post you've ever written in this whole forum. At least that I've seen.

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship: KUDOS!!!!!!!

young_gunner913
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:31 PM
White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to
judge you, or your parents, because "every family has challenges," even as black
and Latino families with similar "challenges" are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
>
White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, who likes to
"kick ass" if people mess with you, and who likes to "shoot shit," for fun, and still be
viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would
be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
>
>
White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."
>
>
> White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough or the founding fathers, it's good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualified from holding office since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the "under God" part wasn't added until

the 1950swhile believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the
constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
>
>
> White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wanted
your state to secede from the union, and whose motto was " Alaska first," and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can
be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she's being disrespectful.
>
White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they dolike, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child laborand people think you're being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in collegeyou're somehow being mean, or even sexist.
>
>
White privilege is being able to convince white women who don't even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a "second look."
>

> White privilege is being able to fire people who didn't support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.


White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
say the conflict in the Middle East is God's punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you're just a good church-going Christian, but if you're black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you're an extremist who probably hates America .
>

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a "trick question," while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O'Reilly means you're dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and
nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a "light" burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
>
aren't sure about that whole "change" thing. Ya know, it's just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain


White privilege is the problem.

I'm a little late for this, I know. :o

But that post... :eek::worship: MyKarma, you are very articulate and have a very nice flow with the way you wrote this. One the best posts I've read on this board. :worship:

*JR*
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Bush did not serve his country, whereas McCAIN was A PRISONER OF WAR and FOUGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM!!! ALL OF YOU!!!
I honor John McCain's refusal to accept the early release he was offered as the son of the Naval commander in the Pacific despite his severe injuries. But he was (like everyone who served the US, etc. in the Vietnam War) a pawn on a global chessboard.

That war didn't have a damned thing to do with securing our freedom. It was both to try (unsuccessfully) to appear tough to China and the Soviet Union, and to let Presidents JFK and LBJ (who had very ambitious agendas @ home) look "tough on Communism".

Hanoi's leader Ho Chi Minh was a genuine nationalist (who even went to the Versailles Conference after WW I in 1919, quoting Thomas Jefferson and seeking French withdrawal). He only threw in his lot with the Communists because he got a deaf ear from the West.

Other than Hanoi kicking out their former client Pol Pot in next door Cambodia in 1978, ending his domestic Holocaust, and fighting a brief border war with former patron China in 1979, Vietnam hasn't been militarily active since then. How exactly did J-Mac or anyone else "fight for our freedom" there?
:confused:

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I like how SO FEW PEOPLE responded to the brilliant points showing how privileged the Obamas have been compared to McCain and Palin (whom I do not even support). I cannot vote for the Republicans but it sure does make me sick how the Dems are comparing McCain to Bush. Bush did not serve his country, whereas McCAIN was A PRISONER OF WAR and FOUGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM!!! ALL OF YOU!!!

Freedom from what? :confused:

Nicolás89
Sep 20th, 2008, 08:58 PM
White privilege doesn't refer to MONEY, people. :help:

Obviously rich black people are "privileged" in a way.

Sure, just in a way. Yah.

So you just see white and black on everything? My point was a lot deeper than that (talking about my first post) and I never defined what "white privilege" is.
You gotta read, comprehend then reply. :)


White privilege is the ability to be successful without 1. being called a "credit to your race," and 2. having people attribute it to some sort of affirmative action.

It's also the ability not to have your faults attributed to your race.

The first one is not even "white privilege" it's a condescend remark towards a minority.
The second works for every race.
In the last one, sure that's not good but I think that "your race's faults are attributed to you" can be as bad as what you said there.

Nicolás89
Sep 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM
On the contrary, I don't think that anyone is dimissing them who have a different opinion. Rather, I think they are dismissing us and trying to invalidate something that is very real to everyone in America. It's better to be open and honest and have a dialogue, than to bury our heads in the sand and think that everything is okay.

Yet you fail to see the opposite angle as Kart said.

Denise4925
Sep 20th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Yet you fail to see the opposite angle as Kart said.

Oh, I do see the opposite angle. I just don't agree with it, when all it is is a blind denial from the very same people who benefit from the privilege. That angle is just not credible in light of the truth. The way I see it is that the opposite angle has to see what I experience and be honest about it.

Apoleb
Sep 20th, 2008, 10:15 PM
Regardeless of white priviledge (whether it exists or not), the first post in the thread is politically motivated crap.

Svetlana.
Sep 20th, 2008, 10:31 PM
The question is would be blacks that are in America now be better off if their predecessors wouldn’t have been sold, but stayed in Africa.

Apoleb
Sep 20th, 2008, 10:34 PM
The question is would be blacks that are in America now be better off if their predecessors wouldn’t have been sold, but stayed in Africa.

Wha..? Why would that be even relevant? Unless you think slavery benefitted black people in the US and they shouldn't whine. :tape:

Svetlana.
Sep 20th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Wha..? Why would that be even relevant? Unless you think slavery benefitted black people in the US and they shouldn't whine. :tape:

no, not at all... but many whites that came to the States years ago already had a capital in their hands. They came here free, and not as slaves.

Marshmallow
Sep 20th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Agreed. And neither can male privilege, which is why I posted the Male Privilege Checklist, too.

Good point, I'm glad you brought it up. Sexism is similarly still alive and kicking as is homophobia and so on. If you break it down really, the only group ideologically free from prejudice = upper middle class white males. So the question is raised, if everyone encounters some level of discrimination - why not band together and create a transparent playing feild? Part of the issue is what the Luther Kings (Martin and Corretta) tried to point out amongst others - we need to get to a place where we frown upon ALL types of prejudice - but that's made harder when we're either only looking out for the communities we belong to and maybe unwittingly perpetuating other form of discrimination... and other times some forms of prejudice become part of social esteem. E.g. Women who ridicule childless carer focused women (), when the black community (for example) seem to be rigidly homophobia etc etc.

:lol: I don't have a point really, other that :yeah: - I'm glad you mentioned that - we shouldn't forget all types of discrimination / privilige going on.

mykarma
Sep 21st, 2008, 03:45 AM
Unfortunately for you, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's just funny to see you get bent out of shape about "allegedly" being called a pedophile, when your racism, ignorance, and stupidity is really the issue at hand. What you say and how you act are two totally different stories. There's a difference between being an open minded, progressive young man, and a bigoted asshole who doesn't even know how he comes off to people.

I honestly don't think you even belong in this thread. You've done nothing to show that you actually care about anything related to these issues. I can say that at a point, I was kind of misguided about racial issues - but I stand firm by many of my prior convictions. The difference between you and me is that I'm willing to say that I was wrong about some things. You just think that anyone who doesn't adhere to your narrow-minded parochial outlooks are "assholes," "not bright," "stupid." You, in your own mind, are never wrong. It's your attitude that will not bring change. And this, my friend, is the biggest irony of all. So you need to take your own head out of your own ass and realize that there is a such thing as white privilege. It's not about degrading another group of people. It's the simple acknowledgment of the fact that MANY, if not all, minorities (not just blacks) are ultimately affected and disenfranchised by privileges they will never have because of their race.

That's why there's nothing to apologize for when it comes to you, and people like you. I'm not any of these other people who don't like you, although we do share something in common. We all see you for who you currently are, and who you'll never be.

This doesn't just go for you, it goes for all the racist dumbasses who try to challenge an issue that is bigger than them. You have white people in this thread who may not agree 100% with what's being said, but they show a willingness to understand. From their point of view, it's not about putting whites down in order to make ourselves feel better. It's about calling attention to an issue that many white people think ended after the fucking Civil War.
Absolutely awesome. :worship::worship::worship:

Cat's Pajamas
Sep 21st, 2008, 03:51 AM
If they wanted to keep it private, she should never have accepted the VP nom and put her daughter and family in this situation. She put them in the spotlight, so they have to deal with the fall out. She's a political candidate and everything about her is going to be examined and either applauded or criticized.



Just damn :weirdo:

"Stupid" and "Cornel West" do not belong in the same sentence, especially coming out of your mouth. Just sad :sobbing:

Just check out the following:
http://www.cornelwest.com/
http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=Cornel+West
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West
http://www.pragmatism.org/library/west/




Well, you're getting there, but you have a little ways to go.

Wow, Denise. So just because she's in public office means it is okay for the media to invade their home and cast Bristol practically as a harlot. I'm not saying the information that she is pregnant not be announced but the way everyone has continued to attack and gossip about her is shameful. Somehow I think that if the Republicans were ratting out family issues of a Democrat we would be hearing a different tune from you. :o

And I don't doubt that Cornel West isn't a very intelligent and respectable man, but I still think his statement is dumb. Intelligent people can still say stupid things, pretty much every public speaker has said something that doesn't highlight them well. But you can't possible say that a comment insinuating that white people don't think reflectively is of good sense.

It's sad that you can't even acknowledge something I said that you agree with.Thanks for the backhanded compliment though.

mykarma
Sep 21st, 2008, 03:56 AM
Don't you morons realize that 'MyKarma' never wrote that, it was written by Tim Wise a self-described 'White Traitor':

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/this-your-nation-white-privilege

Maybe part of 'White Privilege' is having at least enough IQ to be able to discern fraudulent from non-fraudulent posts. Posting other peoples work without giving credit due, is the lowest form of disinginuous posturing.
I don't know who the fvck you're talking about but I made it very clear that it was sent to me in an email. As far as who the original author is, I could give a fvck who wrote it, the fact remains that it is what it is.

No Name Face
Sep 21st, 2008, 06:00 AM
White privilege doesn't refer to MONEY, people. :help:

Obviously rich black people are "privileged" in a way.

White privilege is the ability to be successful without 1. being called a "credit to your race," and 2. having people attribute it to some sort of affirmative action.

It's also the ability not to have your faults attributed to your race.

YES. You are on point. This hits home for me on so many different levels, you have no idea.

sammy01
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:05 AM
i think there is a certain degree of white privilege, but the 1st post in the thread thread is realy bad way of going about it.
also there are so many privileges that don't seem to bother people, like the fact that the mere place you were born can be an advantage in life.

i would like to discuss this but i realy don't think dragging palin in (especialy as to a british person the US election is like a popularity contest/circus) is a great way to do it. i would personaly like to hear peoples own accounts of when they feel white people have been privileged over them, as the points from the thread starting post have absolutely no bearing on my life at all (i don't even know what a redneck is lol) and im sure it dosen't have much bearing on many others, as there not judged by the media for starters.

Kart
Sep 21st, 2008, 10:02 AM
On the contrary, I don't think that anyone is dimissing them who have a different opinion. Rather, I think they are dismissing us and trying to invalidate something that is very real to everyone in America. It's better to be open and honest and have a dialogue, than to bury our heads in the sand and think that everything is okay.
There is no real way that this topic can be invalidated or dismissed though is there ? It's not going to go away.

It seems to me that you're on stable ground on this topic against anyone that tries to argue this concept doesn't exist. There's nothing for any of you to fear as there is no threat from posters on here.

However, I'm not talking about people in denial, I'm talking about the people that acknowledge 'white privilege' but are still finding the original posting offensive. If you're going to make any head way, it seems to me that you need to explain to them why it's worded the way it is, what you're trying to say and that you're not looking to pick a fight. In other words, temper the honesty with tact.

Otherwise you're not really getting anywhere IMHO aside from the usual situation of some posters heralding it as a great thread, some posters refusing to accept it and the majority of others not really sure what to do or say :shrug:.

Kart
Sep 21st, 2008, 10:17 AM
I'm a little late for this, I know. :o

But that post... :eek::worship: MyKarma, you are very articulate and have a very nice flow with the way you wrote this. One the best posts I've read on this board. :worship:
Don't you morons realize that 'MyKarma' never wrote that, it was written by Tim Wise a self-described 'White Traitor':

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/this-your-nation-white-privilege

Maybe part of 'White Privilege' is having at least enough IQ to be able to discern fraudulent from non-fraudulent posts. Posting other peoples work without giving credit due, is the lowest form of disinginuous posturing.
It's pretty clear the thread starter didn't write the original post if you read down the thread.

Before you start calling posters 'morons' for not reading properly, I'd suggest you do the same.

Volcana
Sep 21st, 2008, 03:09 PM
'white privilege' is a very real thing. And it has a significant effect on people's life chances in the USA. But I don't think that's what's going on with how Palin's daughter is being treated.

Sarah Palin is part the hard core Christian Right of the party. Not merely the anti-abortion types, but the 'Jesus is coming back in my lifetime' Christian Right. That part of the Republican party has NEVER gotten a true believer on the national ticket. The whole Bristol Palin pregnancy is easy to spin to that group of people. This is how you handle teenaged sex. Marriage.

Politics in the USA is way too much like sports. Most people who are involved in it vote for whichever party they vote for, no matter what they think of the job the party has done, or who the other guys are running. They might not vote at all, but they won't support the other guys.

So nobody has any reason to get loud about the Bristol Palin pregnancy, once the reflex condemnation was over. Liberals aren't against pre-marital sex. So why criticize?

Republicans want to win. So why criticize?

And nothing sounds whinier than calling the other guys 'hypocritics'.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:01 PM
Wow, Denise. So just because she's in public office means it is okay for the media to invade their home and cast Bristol practically as a harlot. I'm not saying the information that she is pregnant not be announced but the way everyone has continued to attack and gossip about her is shameful. Somehow I think that if the Republicans were ratting out family issues of a Democrat we would be hearing a different tune from you. :o

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was okay, I said it was a fact that she was aware of. There's nothing you can do to stop people from discussing a situation about a political candidate, whether positively or negatively.

Of course you'd think that about me, since you have a low opinion of me. So, what you think is really irrelevant.

And I don't doubt that Cornel West isn't a very intelligent and respectable man, but I still think his statement is dumb. Intelligent people can still say stupid things, pretty much every public speaker has said something that doesn't highlight them well. But you can't possible say that a comment insinuating that white people don't think reflectively is of good sense.

First of all, we don't have the entire quote and we don't know in what context it was written. To say that it was "stupid" is a knee jerk reaction and ignorant without trying to find out in what context he said it and why.

It's sad that you can't even acknowledge something I said that you agree with.Thanks for the backhanded compliment though.

Insecure much?

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:08 PM
i would like to discuss this but i realy don't think dragging palin in (especialy as to a british person the US election is like a popularity contest/circus) is a great way to do it. i would personaly like to hear peoples own accounts of when they feel white people have been privileged over them, as the points from the thread starting post have absolutely no bearing on my life at all (i don't even know what a redneck is lol) and im sure it dosen't have much bearing on many others, as there not judged by the media for starters.

These are my personal accounts.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

And, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:26 PM
There is no real way that this topic can be invalidated or dismissed though is there ? It's not going to go away.

It seems to me that you're on stable ground on this topic against anyone that tries to argue this concept doesn't exist. There's nothing for any of you to fear as there is no threat from posters on here.

However, I'm not talking about people in denial, I'm talking about the people that acknowledge 'white privilege' but are still finding the original posting offensive. If you're going to make any head way, it seems to me that you need to explain to them why it's worded the way it is, what you're trying to say and that you're not looking to pick a fight. In other words, temper the honesty with tact.

Otherwise you're not really getting anywhere IMHO aside from the usual situation of some posters heralding it as a great thread, some posters refusing to accept it and the majority of others not really sure what to do or say :shrug:.

I think the opening post was a great way to get the discussion started, especially since the election itself here in the States is what is illuminating this very subject. If people agree with the fact that there is a such thing as "white privilege" and are still offended by the original post, I suggest it is they who are the ones that have politicized the issue, because to them, it's more about the candidates than the issue itself. They too, are in denial, in my opinion. It is not the OP's fault the way it was worded. She didn't write it, but wanted to share it in order to bring the issue to light. Also, it's a very important fact and a very important issue in light of the candidates we have.

As long as the people in denial have tact, I'm pretty sure those that are not offended by the opening post, will have tact with them.

It's a valid issue and prime for discussion, but the only thing we can control is ourselves. This thread is no different from any other thread where you have people who agree and disagree, and people who don't really know what's going on. I don't know if we ever get any where on any discussion in this forum, but if everyone thought that way, there would be no forum. Hopefully, some people aside from those closed minded people, will learn something they didn't know in the discussion. Hopefully those with closed minds to the subject will read a post that will help them open their minds a tiny bit to see the other side's view. I'm really not here to try to change anyone's mind who's made up, because that would be futile. I post my opinions and my personal experiences on different topics. Hopefully communicating that has a positive effect on some people.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:29 PM
Regardeless of white priviledge (whether it exists or not), the first post in the thread is politically motivated crap.

Are any of the statements in the first post not true? :confused:

Marshmallow
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:35 PM
Unfortunately for you, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's just funny to see you get bent out of shape about "allegedly" being called a pedophile, when your racism, ignorance, and stupidity is really the issue at hand. What you say and how you act are two totally different stories. There's a difference between being an open minded, progressive young man, and a bigoted asshole who doesn't even know how he comes off to people.

I honestly don't think you even belong in this thread. You've done nothing to show that you actually care about anything related to these issues. I can say that at a point, I was kind of misguided about racial issues - but I stand firm by many of my prior convictions. The difference between you and me is that I'm willing to say that I was wrong about some things. You just think that anyone who doesn't adhere to your narrow-minded parochial outlooks are "assholes," "not bright," "stupid." You, in your own mind, are never wrong. It's your attitude that will not bring change. And this, my friend, is the biggest irony of all. So you need to take your own head out of your own ass and realize that there is a such thing as white privilege. It's not about degrading another group of people. It's the simple acknowledgment of the fact that MANY, if not all, minorities (not just blacks) are ultimately affected and disenfranchised by privileges they will never have because of their race.

That's why there's nothing to apologize for when it comes to you, and people like you. I'm not any of these other people who don't like you, although we do share something in common. We all see you for who you currently are, and who you'll never be.

This doesn't just go for you, it goes for all the racist dumbasses who try to challenge an issue that is bigger than them. You have white people in this thread who may not agree 100% with what's being said, but they show a willingness to understand. From their point of view, it's not about putting whites down in order to make ourselves feel better. It's about calling attention to an issue that many white people think ended after the fucking Civil War.


I JUST read this post for the first, I tend to scroll right past longish posts that have nothing to do with me :lol:. But my jaw almost hit the floor. It was sort of 'Ho sit down' but like poetry in motion to read. I'm in after-glow! :tape:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:39 PM
I'm just floored that the mods would come in here and criticize this thread, which has more to do with the human condition and can stimulate thought, and they leave a thread like TWAT, which is a thread meant to elicit fights, open.

sammy01
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:48 PM
These are my personal accounts.



And, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

some of them are total bollocks, and if you have to worry/get distressed about 'flesh' coloured bandages not matching your skin then you realy have a pretty easy life. i have to worry about more important things.

Apoleb
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:52 PM
Are any of the statements in the first post not true? :confused:

Yes. Much of it is crap imo, but I'll take the one that is easiet to argue against.

"White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don't all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you're "untested."

I'm :yawn: at this. Both of their experiences are very debatable. I don't see how 6 years of state Senate and 1 year in the Senate are that much superior to 8 years of mayorship (or whatever they are) and 2 years of state governorship. Given that one is going for presidency and the other for vice-presidency, it's very reasonable to make an argument that there isn't much difference between them on the experience thing, especially that she does have more executive experience.

Second, I love how he disparages her governorship because of the population count in Alaska. As if that's the only or the major determinant in how relevant governorship is. Alaska is the biggest state in the US. It sits at an extremely strategic position 1) because of its closeness to Russia 2) because it's in the arctic circle, an area that is heavily militarized and that is being fought over as we speak between Russia, the US, Canada, Denmark and Norway. It's one of the major contributers of energy to the US and there are immense natural resources there.

Of course all of this explains why it receives so much federal money, given its small population size.

Ironically, this and other illustrate another form of privilege male privilege. I'm sure if Sarah Palin was a man, she wouldn't be held to such high standards and being looked at as a joke (as the author does, to the point of pissing on himself). But of course women have to go that extra mile to prove that they have leadership abilities.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 05:54 PM
some of them are total bollocks, and if you have to worry/get distressed about 'flesh' coloured bandages not matching your skin then you realy have a pretty easy life. i have to worry about more important things.

To you, sammy, to you. :lol:

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 06:10 PM
Yes. Much of it is crap imo, but I'll take the one that is easiet to argue against.

Okay, but doesn't answer my question. My question was, if any of it wasn't a fact, or was any of it false? Of course anything can be spun/argued to persuade in the direction you favor.

Second, I love how he disparages her governorship because of the population count in Alaska. As if that's the only or the major determinant in how relevant governorship is. Alaska is the biggest state in the US. It sits at an extremely strategic position 1) because of its closeness to Russia 2) because it's in the arctic circle, an area that is heavily militarized and that is being fought over as we speak between Russia, the US, Canada, Denmark and Norway. It's one of the major contributers of energy to the US and there are immense natural resources there.

So, what does that mean if she gets VP? It has absolutely nothing to do with her governorship. It doesn't give her foreign policy or military defense experience.

You say that Alaska is one of the major contributors of energy to the US, yet she doesn't even know how much of a percentage her state contributes in energy to the US. :tape:

Of course all of this explains why it receives so much federal money, given its small population size.

Usually federal money is distributed to states and local governments that have a low income rate as compared to the national median income. So, her lobbyists are working over time in Washington.

Ironically, this and other illustrate another form of privilege or the lack of it male privilege. I'm sure if Sarah Palin was a man, she wouldn't be held to such high standards and being looked at as a joke (as the author does). But of course women have to go that extra mile to prove that they have leadership abilities.

OMG wouldn't you want a person who has the potential to be the President to be held to very high standards, male or female? Should she be given a pass because she's female? Your whole statement sounds sexist in and of itself. She should be able to meet whatever standards she is held to. Newsflash, she is a joke compared to others who are her superior in qualifications for the job and that includes Barack Obama and Biden.

With her lack of qualifications and her lack of intelligence, of course she would be looked at as a joke if she were a man. Do you remember Dan Quayle?

Yes, and women do have to give 110% in order to prove that they have leadership abilities. However, blacks have to give 150% in order to prove the same.

gentenaire
Sep 21st, 2008, 06:23 PM
The double standards in the original post have nothing to do with white privilege. You'd see the exact same double standard if it was Hilary Clinton running for president instead of Obama. You'd see the exact same double standard if Palin was black too. It's just politics. Politicians will always change their opinion once it strikes one of their own.

I agree more with Egalité's post. There are things listed there that I hadn't thought about before. And while some think the bandaid thing is silly to get worked up about, I think it's actually quite telling. It does show that the world is white orientated.

Apoleb
Sep 21st, 2008, 06:28 PM
So, what does that mean if she gets VP? It has absolutely nothing to do with her governorship. It doesn't give her foreign policy or military defense experience.

Of course it does. It means she had executive experience on important issues that concern all of the US (energy, natural resources, national security). That's exactly what the author tried to argue against solely based on the low population numbers in Alaska. And yes, it doesn't give her credibility on everything a VP has to do, especially on foreign policy, which is why I said her experience is debatable. The point is that it certainly isn't a joke compared to Obama's especially that he's gunning for presidency whereas she's going for VP.

You say that Alaska is one of the major contributors of energy to the US, yet she doesn't even know how much of a percentage her state contributes in energy to the US. :tape:

Yes, that's a negative point for her but the author was making a point about her CV. :shrug:

Usually federal money is distributed to states and local governments that have a low income rate as compared to the national median income. So, her lobbyists are working over time in Washington

Federal money is distributed for lots of things. In the case of Alaska, a lot has to do with its critical and strategic position in respect to Russia and the arctic circle, and the heavy militarization there.

OMG wouldn't you want a person who has the potential to be the President to be held to very high standards, male or female? Should she be given a pass because she's female? Your whole statement sounds sexist in and of itself. She should be able to meet whatever standards she is held to.

The point is that she, and other women in politics, are held to much higher standards than men for the same position. That is exactly what privilege and prejudice are all about. And that's exactly what the author shows in his statement.

partbrit
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:05 PM
Regardeless of white priviledge (whether it exists or not)...

It very much exists, as does male privilege. To not see either is to choose blindness.

Apoleb
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:07 PM
It very much exists, as does male privilege. To not see either is to choose blindness.

Of course it does. I don't know how one could interpret that statement as in it doesn't exist.

Denise4925
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:13 PM
First, I just want to point out that you haven't yet addressed whether any of those statements were not true. Now, on to what you have addressed.

Of course it does. It means she had executive experience on important issues that concern all of the US (energy, natural resources, national security). That's exactly what the author tried to argue against solely based on the low population numbers in Alaska. And yes, it doesn't give her credibility on everything a VP has to do, especially on foreign policy, which is why I said her experience is debatable. The point is that it certainly isn't a joke compared to Obama's especially that he's gunning for presidency whereas she's going for VP.

What executive experience does she exactly have on these issues?

She is a joke compared to Barack. Actually, there is no comparison.

Federal money is distributed for lots of things. In the case of Alaska, a lot has to do with its critical and strategic position in respect to Russia and the arctic circle, and the heavy militarization there.

Well yeah, but aren't we really talking about earmark money? What federal money (specifically earmark money) is being distributed to Alaska for it's position with respect to Russia? We are not talking about federal funding for military bases there.

What heavy militarization? They have four military basis in the whole state of Alaska. There were four in San Antonio, Texas alone. We won't talk about how many are or were in the state of Texas.

The point is that she, and other women in politics, are held to much higher standards than men for the same position. That is exactly what privilege and prejudice are all about. And that's exactly what the author shows in his statement.

The point is, is that she is not being held to a high enough standard. She is not qualified to hold the governorship of Alaska, let alone the VP of the US. The point is, is that she's being given a pass for the very same things the Republicans accused Barack Obama of.

Apoleb
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:21 PM
First, I just want to point out that you haven't yet addressed whether any of those statements were not true.

I did. :confused: I addressed the one about Palin's experience being a joke in comparison to Obama's yet they are treated in a similar way. I don't believe her experience is a joke in comparison to his. Both are very debatable and it's reasonable to compare them. For the rest, I think I said all I wanted to say so I'll end up repeating myself. I'll just say on my part that I can agree to disagree.

*JR*
Sep 21st, 2008, 07:34 PM
http://www.suspendedfromebay.com/wordpress/wp-content/ebay-lipstick-on-a-pig.jpg

Cat's Pajamas
Sep 21st, 2008, 09:28 PM
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was okay, I said it was a fact that she was aware of. There's nothing you can do to stop people from discussing a situation about a political candidate, whether positively or negatively.

Of course you'd think that about me, since you have a low opinion of me. So, what you think is really irrelevant.



First of all, we don't have the entire quote and we don't know in what context it was written. To say that it was "stupid" is a knee jerk reaction and ignorant without trying to find out in what context he said it and why.



Insecure much?

I didn't put words in your mouth. You stated it was acceptable for her family to be attacked because of her new position in politics. You never mentioned it was right or wrong, and you still haven't clarified how you feel about everyone attacking Palin's family? I would like to know where you stand. :)

And as for the quote, it's what woosey gave me with no link to a further link. Take that up with her, but I feel I have to take what was given to me. All the quote said was that white people don't think reflectively. If there is more to the quote, and the way woosey posted it took it out of context, then I will oblige to withdraw my statement.

mykarma
Sep 21st, 2008, 10:26 PM
It's pretty clear the thread starter didn't write the original post if you read down the thread.

Before you start calling posters 'morons' for not reading properly, I'd suggest you do the same.

What a grand concept.

gentenaire;14104930]

The double standards in the original post have nothing to do with white privilege. You'd see the exact same double standard if it was Hilary Clinton running for president instead of Obama. You'd see the exact same double standard if Palin was black too. It's just politics. Politicians will always change their opinion once it strikes one of their own White privilege is not something that one turns off and on.

I agree more with Egalité's post. There are things listed there that I hadn't thought about before. And while some think the bandaid thing is silly to get worked up about, I think it's actually quite telling. It does show that the world is white orientated.Thanks for using your reasoning powers instead of having a knee jerk reaction to the poster regarding the bandage example.

Scotso
Sep 22nd, 2008, 07:35 AM
Unfortunately for you, I wasn't trying to be funny. It's just funny to see you get bent out of shape about "allegedly" being called a pedophile, when your racism, ignorance, and stupidity is really the issue at hand. What you say and how you act are two totally different stories. There's a difference between being an open minded, progressive young man, and a bigoted asshole who doesn't even know how he comes off to people.

There's nothing alleged about it. You did it, we can all read it. Deny it if you want, but it's pretty hypocritical to acuse someone of being a bigot while throwing out insults like that. If you think it's somehow okay for you to make accusations like that about someone, I find it absolutely hilarious that you feel you have the right to be so angry at me simply for not liking the tone of the original post, especially when I never said that racism doesn't exist.

I honestly don't think you even belong in this thread. You've done nothing to show that you actually care about anything related to these issues.

I think my posts in this thread show that I do care. Just because I don't get on my knees and accept everything you say about race as the God-given truth doesn't mean I don't care. And I've never done or said anything to suggest that I'm racist at all... unless you want to say that not agreeing with many of you on other issues means I'm racist. Please.

And what exactly did you contribute here?

That's why there's nothing to apologize for when it comes to you, and people like you. I'm not any of these other people who don't like you, although we do share something in common. We all see you for who you currently are, and who you'll never be.

So since you think I'm a bigot, it's okay for you to treat me however you wish? How enlightened. And I really don't care how a few self-righteous and ignorant posters on a message board who regularly participate in the whole mob mentality see me. If you think I'm racist, you clearly don't know me well. No one who did would say anything like that, because they've seen the life I live and how I treat people equally. And since you don't know me, I don't know why you think that your opinion of me matters at all?

And I think it's funny that you come in here acting like you know me so well, and that you've figured out what a horrible person I am... when just a few months ago you actually liked me. What changed? Well, I think it had something to do with me saying that Parvati would deserve to win Survivor even though Cirie was still in the game. It isn't as though I didn't like Cirie any more or anything, but you seemed to believe that since I didn't think the only black person left was the only person that deserved to win, I was racist. Please. You just got pissy that I didn't agree with you about an insignificant game and now you've joined Denise and her posse that like to tear down my character at any given opportunity. Pathetic. If you really want people to be equal despite their race, you really need to stop treating anyone who disagrees with you as racist. I'm not, I've never said or done anything to suggest otherwise. So if you're going to use that lie just as an excuse to hate me for other, trivial matters, you clearly have bigger problems than me. But you can go on with your ridiculous crusade if you wish, and I'll just put you on ignore. It isn't as if you actually contributed anything worth reading to any of these discussions anyway.