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mirzalover
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:41 AM
Juries are to make a comeback in next year's Eurovision Song Contest final after criticism about the fairness of public televoting at this year's event.

A panel from each country will vote alongside the viewing public, and is seen by Eurovision bosses as a way of balancing the popular decision.

This year's contest came under fire for neighbourly voting, which helped Russia win while the UK finished last.

Next May's annual musical competition is due to be held in Moscow.

Song contest officials will meet again later this year to decide how the voting will be split between the juries and televoting.

Svante Stockelius, Eurovision's executive supervisor, said: "Nothing is more democratic than the vote of the public. But a jury takes the opportunity to listen to the songs several times before they make up their minds.

"We believe a combination will make the show more interesting," he added.

A jury vote was reintroduced to the semi-finals of the contest at this year's contest in Belgrade, and there was a difference between their view and the public's verdict.

Sweden finished 12th in the televote, but came 10th with juries and proceeded to the grand final.

Some countries, including the UK, have performed poorly since public voting determined the winner of Eurovision.

This year, singer Andy Abraham only picked up votes from Ireland and San Marino.

Other competing nations, including Greece, Turkey and Russia, have benefited from neighbourly votes and those cast by communities living in other European states.

Fans of the contest, who have become disgruntled with the voting system, have been calling for a return of the jury vote.

Until 1997 when the first countries adopted televoting, national juries were entirely responsible for allocating Eurovision votes.

VRee_Willario
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:09 AM
That's a good thing ;)

Xian
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:47 AM
thank god finally .maybe we don´t have to listen to those horrible Balkan-songs anymore :worship::worship:

mandy7
Sep 16th, 2008, 09:11 AM
thank god finally .maybe we don´t have to listen to those horrible Balkan-songs anymore :worship::worship:
oh yeah you will
cause there won't be any judges in the semi's

Just Do It
Sep 16th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I think that is generally a good thing. There will again be two semi finals, which is also good. I think juries should be from USA or Australia - who will be neutral.

Hachiko
Sep 16th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Finally!

TheBoiledEgg
Sep 16th, 2008, 10:07 AM
it was the British idea to make it phone-votes when they held it last :spit: and were calling it a great idea.

Xian
Sep 16th, 2008, 10:11 AM
oh yeah you will
cause there won't be any judges in the semi's

damn :lol:

CooCooCachoo
Sep 16th, 2008, 10:14 AM
Good move :yeah:

ViennaCalling
Sep 16th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Good, but what´s the sense if the Semis will be like before? :help:

It´s only better for the big four, but not for countries like Austria per example because we won´t ever get to finals ... 10 Eastern European countries will make it in the final :help:

ViennaCalling
Sep 16th, 2008, 11:29 AM
I think that is generally a good thing. There will again be two semi finals, which is also good. I think juries should be from USA or Australia - who will be neutral.

:spit: Australia would maybe give the 12 points everytime to Great Britain, USA would give them to Israel :tape:

Just Do It
Sep 16th, 2008, 11:43 AM
:spit: Australia would maybe give the 12 points everytime to Great Britain, USA would give them to Israel :tape:

No, I was more thinking a professional jury to come from those countries, who vont be biased.

Princess Fiona
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:50 PM
This year's contest came under fire for neighbourly voting, which helped Russia win while the UK finished last.

Yes, but Russia 'did' enter a big star of theirs, and had Timbaland producing, and had Yevgeny Plushenko skating, and I believe the song was heavily promoted before the contest, and... I didn't care for the Russian song, and I accept that neighbourly voting does happen, but I don't think that win wasn't entirely down to neighbourly voting...

(Sorry - I just get so frustrated with some of the attitudes sometimes... ;) )

I think this could be a positive step, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with Eurovision in the future... :)

Kworb
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:59 PM
The UK's songs have been absolutely horrible. I can't remember the last time they had a decent entry. This goes for most of the countries that are supposedly disadvantaged because they don't have neighbors voting for them. Always crappy shit. At least the eastern European countries still send good artists and good songs. Also, don't forget that Finland won not too long ago, a country which doesn't get many free points. If a song is awesome enough it will win, whether it's from the UK or from Andorra.

Sander.
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Good decision:D

CooCooCachoo
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:10 PM
The UK's songs have been absolutely horrible. I can't remember the last time they had a decent entry. This goes for most of the countries that are supposedly disadvantaged because they don't have neighbors voting for them. Always crappy shit. At least the eastern European countries still send good artists and good songs. Also, don't forget that Finland won not too long ago, a country which doesn't get many free points. If a song is awesome enough it will win, whether it's from the UK or from Andorra.

Germany 2007 and 2006 was crap? No way.

Kworb
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Germany 2007 and 2006 was crap? No way.

:speakles: Those were some of the worst offenses by western European countries. Especially the 2007 one. :tape:

Princess Fiona
Sep 16th, 2008, 02:27 PM
The UK's songs have been absolutely horrible. I can't remember the last time they had a decent entry. This goes for most of the countries that are supposedly disadvantaged because they don't have neighbors voting for them. Always crappy shit. At least the eastern European countries still send good artists and good songs. Also, don't forget that Finland won not too long ago, a country which doesn't get many free points. If a song is awesome enough it will win, whether it's from the UK or from Andorra.

The UK attitude 'can' make me mad, soooo... *breathe* ;) I see the effort that countries like Sweden and Finland puts into finding their Eurovision entries, and the UK really does not compare (in my opinion!). And we whinge, and sneer, and treat it as a joke, and then we do not do so well because "nobody likes us/it's all political" etc, and - what about the countries that are really making an effort with the contest and sending some wonderful songs? I've loved a lot of the songs from Eastern Europe from the last few years... I do accept that the neighbourly voting/diaspora voting does happen, and I do like the idea of using some jury votes too, but I think some people need a little 'change of attitude'...

(Okay, I really have finished... *breeeeeathe* )

I don't know what it is with me today - I think I should possibly avoid Eurovision threads too, ehhh... ;)

Halardfan
Sep 16th, 2008, 07:09 PM
The UK attitude 'can' make me mad, soooo... *breathe* ;) I see the effort that countries like Sweden and Finland puts into finding their Eurovision entries, and the UK really does not compare (in my opinion!). And we whinge, and sneer, and treat it as a joke, and then we do not do so well because "nobody likes us/it's all political" etc, and - what about the countries that are really making an effort with the contest and sending some wonderful songs? I've loved a lot of the songs from Eastern Europe from the last few years... I do accept that the neighbourly voting/diaspora voting does happen, and I do like the idea of using some jury votes too, but I think some people need a little 'change of attitude'...

(Okay, I really have finished... *breeeeeathe* )

I don't know what it is with me today - I think I should possibly avoid Eurovision threads too, ehhh... ;)

I think you are right, it would be great to see some of our better singers/songwriters take on the show, but its unlikely to happen.
The attitude towards the contest here traditionally was to treat the contest as a campy laugh, because there have been some hilariously bad entries down the years, that everyone enjoyed laughing it, accompanied by Wogans actually funny commentary gently taking the p*ss.

The political voting used to go on, but to a much smaller extent, it wasnt as dominant as it is today.

Its just hard to see what a credible British act would gain from entering the contest, when its so derided here, and when the voting system is such a obstacle to overcome.

So generally, our enteries will tend to be reality show rejects.

If we could have have any UK act, who would make a good entry? Faithless maybe, Lily Allen, Coldplay, Amy Winehouse...its spectacularly unlikely any of them would enter, but could any of them win the contest if they did? Maybe with this new modified voting system they could.

Id like to see the BBC scrap the qualifying round, put together a long list of credible singers/groups and desperately try to persuade/pay one them to do it. I still suspect theyd get loads of no's. Even then, I worry theyd come 15th. ;)

Kworb
Sep 16th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Faithless at Eurovision :bowdown: That would be amazing.

I think we are sending Anouk this year, finally we have a chance. :hearts:

Halardfan
Sep 16th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Faithless at Eurovision :bowdown: That would be amazing.

I think we are sending Anouk this year, finally we have a chance. :hearts:

I really like Faithless, it would be intriguing to see how they would do...but it would be a mountain to climb to get them to do it, and another mountain to climb to overcome the voting system to have a chance.

The best chance would be to get an act who were famous in Europe in the 80's/90's, who have fallen on hard times, and might be willing/desperate enough to enter Eurovision!

CooCooCachoo
Sep 16th, 2008, 07:44 PM
:speakles: Those were some of the worst offenses by western European countries. Especially the 2007 one. :tape:

Germany 2007? Roger Cicero's entry was one of the best in the last few years. And he was a great performer and singer, even if you dislike the kind of music.

CooCooCachoo
Sep 16th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Faithless at Eurovision :bowdown: That would be amazing.

I think we are sending Anouk this year, finally we have a chance. :hearts:

Anouk? God, no. Please save us.

I really dislike her :o :o Such an annoying voice. And there is no way she will make us go far. We've sent talented female singers before, and flunked.

Kworb
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:17 PM
Anouk? God, no. Please save us.

I really dislike her :o :o Such an annoying voice. And there is no way she will make us go far. We've sent talented female singers before, and flunked.

:speakles: Anouk is one of the best singers we have. Her new live DVD is simply amazing. :bowdown:

In the end it mostly depends on the song. I mean, Hind has an amazing voice, but that song she sang last year was terrible. :o We'll just have to wait and see. I'd also love for Within Temptation to participate. :hearts:

yCxb8FwhzK8

They'd win for sure :hearts:

Kart
Sep 16th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Apart from this year, all the times I've seen Eurovision over the last 15 years, I've always thought the right song won.

The issue with UK and eurovision IMHO is not that we always do badly. We do send some rubbish songs but sometimes we send some okay ones and we still end up with barely any points which is nothing to do with the quality of the songs.

I love eurovision but I reckon we should stop paying so much extra for it - ie. make the other competing countries foot their share of the bill - and actually get relegated. It'd teach us to take it more seriously and it'd stop me getting irritated that my taxes are being wasted.

hellas719
Sep 16th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Uggh! That will be so dumb. Its just one person from that countries' opinion. Yes, there will still be televoting, but it won't be the same. Btw, Eastern European countries all vote for each other, because they all share similar forms of music, and not just b/c of political reasons. This is just my opinion, but the only good song from Western Europe in the 2008 contest was the Netherlands' song.

ivanban
Sep 17th, 2008, 08:03 AM
I think 50-50% mixture of televoting and jury voting would me fair.
Before televoting, when there was only jury voting, results weren't any better. Difference is that most of countries that are now at the bottom were ALWAYS at the top back then. For example, before televoting was introduced, western Europe countries won 42 times, and countries from eastern Europe 3 times (2 of those wins was Israel and 1 Yugoslavia, so basically only 1 true win for eastern european countries) :tape:
After televoting was introduced, wester countries won 3 times, and eastern in other years

Xian
Sep 17th, 2008, 09:39 AM
well it won´t chance anything cause most likely all of the jury members in the eastern states are corrupt and we will see another "surprising" winner next year :lol:

CooCooCachoo
Sep 17th, 2008, 10:24 AM
:speakles: Anouk is one of the best singers we have. Her new live DVD is simply amazing. :bowdown:

In the end it mostly depends on the song. I mean, Hind has an amazing voice, but that song she sang last year was terrible. :o We'll just have to wait and see. I'd also love for Within Temptation to participate. :hearts:

yCxb8FwhzK8

They'd win for sure :hearts:

Anouk is an amazing artist, but I personally really dislike her music and especially her voice. It just irks me :shrug:

Just Do It
Sep 17th, 2008, 10:51 AM
well it won´t chance anything cause most likely all of the jury members in the eastern states are corrupt and we will see another "surprising" winner next year :lol:

Russia was a #1 at all betting sites this year. As for judges. I think they should be from America or Australia.

VRee_Willario
Sep 17th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Anouk is an amazing artist, but I personally really dislike her music and especially her voice. It just irks me :shrug:
:confused:
:rolls:

Timariot
Sep 17th, 2008, 11:51 AM
Prediction: UK will finish in bottom five next year.

Princess Fiona
Sep 17th, 2008, 12:14 PM
I cannot help it, I cannot resist Eurovision threads... ;)

If we could have have any UK act, who would make a good entry? Faithless maybe, Lily Allen, Coldplay, Amy Winehouse...its spectacularly unlikely any of them would enter, but could any of them win the contest if they did? Maybe with this new modified voting system they could.

My choice (I really have little idea of what is popular in the charts these days, so I'll go with a HUGE favourite) would be Depeche Mode... ;) (Ahem! And they'd have to win the contest by a landslide? And if they didn't Iiiiii would join that "I Hate Eurovision It's The Worst Thing Ever" bandwagon, ahemmm... ;) )

Germany 2007? Roger Cicero's entry was one of the best in the last few years. And he was a great performer and singer, even if you dislike the kind of music.

I loved the Roger Cicero entry too. I loved the 2007 contest...

CooCooCachoo
Sep 17th, 2008, 01:34 PM
:confused:
:rolls:

What? I can still see that she is a very good performer. She is good at what she does, but I just don't like it :shrug: It's like Coldplay. They're also very good, but I absolutely detest them.

vadin124
Sep 17th, 2008, 07:42 PM
as much as i would loove for America and Australia to be the voting nations, i mean Britain has a very similar taste in music to both of these countries, and the Americans love us (the Aussies love to hate us) so we're bound to get more votes than everone else...however i think to make it slightly fairer, other nations which are non-european should vote also, like Japan, Mexico, Canada etc.

and as far as i'm concerned, this judging nonsense is WORSE than the travesty of televoting in Europe...i mean how can you judge how good a song is?? isn't it purely based on personal preferance...i mean, what one person may consider a good song, another person may consider a terrible song, and vice versa...what would happen if the majority of judges happened to like the style of music considered to be TERRIBLE by 99% of the european population??

so imo, 20-30 countries who are not in europe should be the voting nations...and they should decide the winner...thats the only way i can see an unbiased decision being made

KoOlMaNsEaN
Sep 17th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Won't change shit which is why I won't watch next year

tenn_ace
Sep 18th, 2008, 03:59 AM
the funny thing is that if it was the UK who "benefited" from the neighbourly vote, nothing would have changed............

Halardfan
Sep 18th, 2008, 06:41 AM
the funny thing is that if it was the UK who "benefited" from the neighbourly vote, nothing would have changed............

The reason it has changed is because the frustration with the voting system and its inbuilt unfairness is now felt in most of western Europe as a whole, not just the UK.

My position is that everyone should just vote for the song they think is best, regardless of country.

VRee_Willario
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:10 AM
What? I can still see that she is a very good performer. She is good at what she does, but I just don't like it :shrug: It's like Coldplay. They're also very good, but I absolutely detest them.
I understand It was just a funny contrast :D

Kworb
Sep 18th, 2008, 12:33 PM
The main problem is that they keep adding countries that aren't even European like Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc. Israel should also go away.

With all these mini states declaring independence we'll soon also have Kosovo, South Ossetia and Abkhazia sending separate entries.

gentenaire
Sep 18th, 2008, 09:48 PM
How quickly people forget that it wasn't that much better with juries. The juries were abolished because they were too partial, it was too much about appeasing countries the country has close ties with. Everyone thought things would improve with televoting. Obviously not.

And the main reason the UK was at the top for so many years was because they could always sing in English. Back when countries could only sing in their national language, the UK, Ireland and Malta would always end somewhere near the top. The UK started doing badly at the contest, the moment countries were allowed to choose the language. And it's not just the UK, Malta and Ireland haven't been doing too well either these last couple of years.

Halardfan
Sep 19th, 2008, 07:00 AM
How quickly people forget that it wasn't that much better with juries. The juries were abolished because they were too partial, it was too much about appeasing countries the country has close ties with. Everyone thought things would improve with televoting. Obviously not.

And the main reason the UK was at the top for so many years was because they could always sing in English. Back when countries could only sing in their national language, the UK, Ireland and Malta would always end somewhere near the top. The UK started doing badly at the contest, the moment countries were allowed to choose the language. And it's not just the UK, Malta and Ireland haven't been doing too well either these last couple of years.

I agree it wasnt much better with juries, but it was a bit better.

I agree that the singing in English thing was a significant advantage and contributer to our past success, but also Britain has a very strong tradition in popular music. In a pop music contest in Europe you'd expect Britain to be a leading contender over the years. Its not a boast...goodness know we Brits are crap at plenty of things, (opening ceremonies, closing ceremonies ;)) but popular music is traditionally maybe our strongest suit. Of course persuading any of our stronger acts to participate is easier said than done.

The rumour is there is going to be a Graham Norton/Andrew Lloyd Webber talent show, like the ones for Sound of Music etc...to pick our entry next year. Which sounds a mixed blessing, but at least suggests they are putting a bit more effort in.

I also agree that its not about Britain, it more of a system that is strongly skewed against Western European countries.

Princess Fiona
Sep 19th, 2008, 10:44 AM
'Neighbourly' voting isn't a new thing though - sorry if I sound a little 'obvious' but Western European countries give points to neighbours too... (I actually have something of a Eurovision DVD collection - yes, I am a little bit of a Eurovision 'fan') (I know not everyone can understand... *blush* ;) ) I think some of Terry Wogan's comments last year were more than a little offensive (and I like Terry Wogan, but I do think it's time for him to move on). Why is it okay for the UK and Ireland to exchange points, hmm? But if an 'Eastern European' country does it then out come the moaners, the 'it's all political' people... I know not everyone thinks this way and I look forward to seeing what happens with juries but some attitudes just really upset me...

Kworb
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Anouk? God, no. Please save us.
Seems we're now sending "De Toppers" (Gordon, René Froger & Gerard Joling). :o

Please save us. :help:

Just Do It
Sep 19th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Completely off topic, I jsut found a video of all songs from 2004 ESC final, and I have to say that was by fat the best year in this decade :awww:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeH7h5zKA0E

A Magicman
Sep 19th, 2008, 02:08 PM
One word:

Finally!


They should've killed televoting totally, but that's a good beginning.

Kworb
Sep 19th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Completely off topic, I jsut found a video of all songs from 2004 ESC final, and I have to say that was by fat the best year in this decade :awww:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeH7h5zKA0E

2004 :hearts:

Lane Moje :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:
Wild Dances :hearts:

But 2003 was my favorite because it had the best Eurovision song ever, Ne Ver', Ne Boysia, Ne Prosi :drool: :worship:

gentenaire
Sep 19th, 2008, 06:11 PM
'Neighbourly' voting isn't a new thing though - sorry if I sound a little 'obvious' but Western European countries give points to neighbours too... (I actually have something of a Eurovision DVD collection - yes, I am a little bit of a Eurovision 'fan') (I know not everyone can understand... *blush* ;) ) I think some of Terry Wogan's comments last year were more than a little offensive (and I like Terry Wogan, but I do think it's time for him to move on). Why is it okay for the UK and Ireland to exchange points, hmm? But if an 'Eastern European' country does it then out come the moaners, the 'it's all political' people... I know not everyone thinks this way and I look forward to seeing what happens with juries but some attitudes just really upset me...

Exactly! And he claims it's all too easy to predict, but I'd like to see him predict the scores before the actual voting has started.
It's all too easy to predict where the 12 are going once all the other points have already been handed out, it's very easy to predict scores once you see a pattern developing, once you see what countries are doing well. If it really was just politics and not about the songs, you should be able to predict the scores beforehand, before the contest.

Countries like Norway and Finland have often ended up somewhere near the bottom. But then that one time that they do get 12 points from Sweden or Denmark, it's suddenly political.

There are a couple of certainties, such as Cyprus and Greece, Turkey getting lots of points from Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, France due the high number of Turkish immigrants voting. The Cyprus and Greece thing was the same with juries. For Turkey OTOH, things will change dramatically should televoting be abolished. They'll be back at the bottom as in the old days when the hardly ever got any points.
Other than that, the winner these past few years has usually gotten high scores from nearly all countries, including the Western European countries. So overall, we could say that we've always had a rightful winner.
It's in the mid-section that the political votes make a difference though.

If you really want unbiased voting, you need to put juries together for each country, a couple of months before the contest, and let them watch the songs without telling what country they represent. They should put the results of the voting in an envelop, only to be opened on the actual day of the contest.

Halardfan
Sep 19th, 2008, 09:43 PM
'Neighbourly' voting isn't a new thing though - sorry if I sound a little 'obvious' but Western European countries give points to neighbours too... (I actually have something of a Eurovision DVD collection - yes, I am a little bit of a Eurovision 'fan') (I know not everyone can understand... *blush* ;) ) I think some of Terry Wogan's comments last year were more than a little offensive (and I like Terry Wogan, but I do think it's time for him to move on). Why is it okay for the UK and Ireland to exchange points, hmm? But if an 'Eastern European' country does it then out come the moaners, the 'it's all political' people... I know not everyone thinks this way and I look forward to seeing what happens with juries but some attitudes just really upset me...

Its the scale of it, there are no countries, even Ireland who automatically give Britain points, we often get a handful of points from Ireland, but they arent automatic...

The likes of Serbia and Russia have almost automatic 30, 40, 50 point starts, regardless of their song. Put simply both have serveral surrounding countries that used to be part of the same nation as them. They spread their votes very regularly between those nations. Its not just that thry give 12's to each other, but that the lesser votes go to others neighbours too.

With their incresed independance, there is a case for England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland all too compete individually, giving us all a 20 or 30 points start too. If you cant beat them, join them.

I think Wogan quit? Dunno if he'll change his mind now. The contest wouldnt be the same without him. While ocassionaly he strays too far, more often he reflects what 90% of the viewing public is thinking.

Jose.
Sep 25th, 2008, 06:10 PM
That means Portugal can win. :lol: