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In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:57 PM
This is our chat thread to keep up with one another, like the Hillary thread was original intended. Now, it's hijacked by Obama supporters with attention disorders.

So everyone, post in here! :p

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Pauly :dance:

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:02 PM
Pauly :dance:

Hey! What's going on? I am surprised you have time to post outside of TWAT. :lol:

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:05 PM
^ Hey there. Well, it is preatty slow night :tape: :lol:

I was supposed to go out, but something horrible happened and I stayed at home.

How are you ?

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:06 PM
^ Hey there. Well, it is preatty slow night :tape: :lol:

I was supposed to go out, but something horrible happened and I stayed at home.

How are you ?

Oh no ... is everything okay?

I'm fine. Should be doing HW. But just relaxing. Hoping to go out later.

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:08 PM
Oh no ... is everything okay?

I'm fine. Should be doing HW. But just relaxing. Hoping to go out later.

It is okay now, I just had a big raw with my friend on her b-day, and now all my friends accused me I ruined her b-day, she is apparantly crying now because I did not come. Apart from that everything is fine :tape:

Going out ? :hehehe: You are in NY, if I am not mistaking ? I bet there are many good fancy clubs, I wanna come one day :(

Ellery
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hey guys! :wavey: I am currently doing this 80 page Italian homework and I need a break :o It's so tedious.

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:11 PM
It is okay now, I just had a big raw with my friend on her b-day, and now all my friends accused me I ruined her b-day, she is apparantly crying now because I did not come. Apart from that everything is fine :tape:

Going out ? :hehehe: You are in NY, if I am not mistaking ? I bet there are many good fancy clubs, I wanna come one day :(

Awwh, you should just suck it up for one night, you brat. :lol:

Yeah, I'm on LI. Could go to the city, but I think just at night at the friend's drinking a few burrzzzzzzzzzz. Ya heard.

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:11 PM
Hey guys! :wavey: I am currently doing this 80 page Italian homework and I need a break :o It's so tedious.

You speak Italian ? How so ?

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:13 PM
OMG! BRITNEY, NEW RECORD!

Most searched person on the web: Britney Spears, it's a guiness record! No longer Paris. :D!

Boo Italian homework! :( I have to do some Accounting crap but I don't feel like it. :)

LeonHart
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Aww has the other thread really been taken over by bots? I haven't been checking on here too often lately, but....I can assure you I've been keen on the political scene :)

LeonHart
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Roar, I'm gonna post some funny Obama pics in the other thread to infuriate the Obamabots :angel:

Ellery
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:15 PM
You speak Italian ? How so ?

It will probably be one of my majors. :p

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:17 PM
It will probably be one of my majors. :p

OMG I just checked your profile, and saw you are 19 :eek: I always though you are 25+. Not sure why, maybe because your posts are always mature.

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:17 PM
Roar, I'm gonna post some funny Obama pics in the other thread to infuriate the Obamabots :angel:

Basically. :o :o The fact that we don't post in their thread and we leave them to their discussions isn't enough. They have to overtake ours.

Doesn't sound like change, sounds like ignorance.

LeonHart
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:17 PM
It will probably be one of my majors. :p

That's cool. You could be an Italian tour guide or something :D

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:17 PM
OMG I just checked your profile, and saw you are 19 :eek: I always though you are 25+. Not sure why, maybe because your posts are always mature.

Ellery is very mature, and in the good places. :drool:

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:20 PM
Ellery is very mature, and in the good places. :drool:

:unsure: How do you mean ? :lol:

Just Do It
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:22 PM
By the way, I wasnt following Hill's thread, but I though now all Hillary and Barack supporters were posting together in Democratic thread ?

Ellery
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:24 PM
By the way, I wasnt following Hill's thread, but I though now all Hillary and Barack supporters were posting together in Democratic thread ?

Not quite. ;)

LeonHart
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Yes. We are Democrats who want to see the nation go in the right direction. Other democrats just want a black president. There's a difference. :) :)

If Barack didn't cheat his way to win, and didn't have all these creepy friends I'd probably be cheering for him to win. You'd think growing up with 8 years of Bush I'd vote Democrat when I get to vote in my first presidential election :tape:

In The Zone
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:51 PM
If Barack didn't cheat his way to win, and didn't have all these creepy friends I'd probably be cheering for him to win. You'd think growing up with 8 years of Bush I'd vote Democrat when I get to vote in my first presidential election :tape:

Exactly how I feel. :(

LeonHart
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:51 PM
By the way I'm so glad you made this thread. It makes me cringe every time I have to click the "politics" sub forum. Too much kool-aid in there for my liking.

Mods you better not move this thread in there! I'm not gonna talk about politics in here! (only when it's brought up by others :p )

Ellery
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:44 AM
OMG I just checked your profile, and saw you are 19 :eek: I always though you are 25+. Not sure why, maybe because your posts are always mature.

Thank you, I´m flattered. :)

drake3781
Sep 13th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Hi all. I don't normally "do" Chat Threads, but since you are my Hillary Heads, I am making an exception. :p


Tonight - visited my dad, did a huge shopping spree, and now home to eat and will have to get to bed early. I have a 9AM tennis match so I have to get up at the ungodly hour of 7AM on Saturday.



Hope you all are gonna enjoy the weekend! :wavey:

Ellery
Sep 13th, 2008, 02:25 AM
Thanks Drake, you too :wavey:

LeonHart
Sep 13th, 2008, 03:16 AM
ooo Drake you play at clubs or what? Right now I only play tennis with a group of people on the weekends and some group lessons on Tuesdays/Thursdays. I might join up a league in the future :p

In The Zone
Sep 13th, 2008, 03:47 AM
Go get 'em Drake! Win it for us! So our group can win something for once. :lol:

Do you play for the USTA?

drake3781
Sep 13th, 2008, 04:15 AM
Thanks guys! I play for a club here in my city, and I'm 3.5 which is kind of low-rated, but I am the #1 player tomorrow. That means I play their best player. (I probably won't win :tape: ) :p I did play USTA over the summer. I'm not a great player but I just love it. I play five times a week!

In The Zone
Sep 13th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Thanks guys! I play for a club here in my city, and I'm 3.5 which is kind of low-rated, but I am the #1 player tomorrow. That means I play their best player. (I probably won't win :tape: ) :p I did play USTA over the summer. I'm not a great player but I just love it. I play five times a week!

Go get 'em. :D I used to work at a tennis place and the summer was the best. Just USTA matches. Aka, no work for me. I would just sit and watch. Very easy.

Paneru
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:27 AM
Sure, I'll post here!

But not for one hot second will I allow those
clowns to run me from our OG thread!
No sir!!!

darrinbaker00
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:30 AM
Thanks guys! I play for a club here in my city, and I'm 3.5 which is kind of low-rated, but I am the #1 player tomorrow. That means I play their best player. (I probably won't win :tape: ) :p I did play USTA over the summer. I'm not a great player but I just love it. I play five times a week!
Don't think that way, my friend. You're playing #1 for a reason. You can do this. ;)

Paneru
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:34 AM
Thanks guys! I play for a club here in my city, and I'm 3.5 which is kind of low-rated, but I am the #1 player tomorrow. That means I play their best player. (I probably won't win :tape: ) :p I did play USTA over the summer. I'm not a great player but I just love it. I play five times a week!

Don't sweat it! You are where you are for a reson.

Don't think about winning or losing, just have fun out
there and enjoy it! :yeah:

Details! :cool:

In The Zone
Sep 13th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Drake! How did it go?

drake3781
Sep 13th, 2008, 08:01 PM
I won. By a lot. :p The girl hadn't played since May, and was hung over to boot! :o So it wasn't much competition. I'd have preferred a more challenging match, even if I would have lost.


Thanks for the encouragement, though; it really did make me feel good! Sometimes it seems like nobody cares. (Akgul told me that same thing about her matches, too! )


Hope you all are having a good weekend. :wavey:

IceHock
Sep 13th, 2008, 08:05 PM
so what happened to the other thread?

drake3781
Sep 13th, 2008, 08:18 PM
so what happened to the other thread?



IMO it has served its purpose and should be locked. But I don't know if everyone agrees. It has been taken over by non-HillaryHeads making themselves obnoxious. This thread is for the Hill Fans to just keep in touch - not intended to be political. (I asked you to be invited. :angel: )

IceHock
Sep 13th, 2008, 08:51 PM
lol I know, I saw it in the pm that ITZ sent me :p

LeonHart
Sep 13th, 2008, 11:06 PM
IMO it has served its purpose and should be locked. But I don't know if everyone agrees. It has been taken over by non-HillaryHeads making themselves obnoxious. This thread is for the Hill Fans to just keep in touch - not intended to be political. (I asked you to be invited. :angel: )

They are obnoxious indeed. Anyone that doesn't follow their views are labeled right wing nuts. Yea, you know, the liberals are the ones that are "open minded" about issues but somehow cannot see how a women can be vice president with 5 kids (well 4 now that her son is sent off :sad: ) Nor can they seem to understand that majority of the nation follow religion for self-motivation and comfort.

Paneru
Sep 14th, 2008, 06:34 PM
I won. By a lot. :p The girl hadn't played since May, and was hung over to boot! :o So it wasn't much competition. I'd have preferred a more challenging match, even if I would have lost.


Thanks for the encouragement, though; it really did make me feel good! Sometimes it seems like nobody cares. (Akgul told me that same thing about her matches, too! )


Hope you all are having a good weekend. :wavey:

Glad to hear that you won! :yeah:

I too hate playing when the opponent isn't
offering any type of challenge.

Paneru
Sep 14th, 2008, 06:36 PM
IMO it has served its purpose and should be locked. But I don't know if everyone agrees. It has been taken over by non-HillaryHeads making themselves obnoxious. This thread is for the Hill Fans to just keep in touch - not intended to be political. (I asked you to be invited. :angel: )

Well, I for one am not going anywhere.
They want us to go. If we all did, the
thread would die and their mission would
be accomplished. MO. have them to fall in
or shut up. I'll do neither. ;)

Paneru
Sep 24th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Well, looks like they succeeded for now. Our thread that should have stayed in the "Chats" where it belonged is now locked. Guess it's just hilarious that they
came into our thread starting trouble and now it is locked. I'm just so tired of
this crap. One insult after another.

New game, let's put all these people on our Ignore List so that we do not have to argue or even read any of their trashiness. We can make this our all-around thread. From Hillary/Political Chato to our Everyday Life Chat(As this is talk about anything chat).

Yeah?

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:28 PM
Well, I for one am not going anywhere.
They want us to go. If we all did, the
thread would die and their mission would
be accomplished. MO. have them to fall in
or shut up. I'll do neither. ;)

Ditto.

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:29 PM
Well, looks like they succeeded for now. Our thread that should have stayed in the "Chats" where it belonged is now locked. Guess it's just hilarious that they
came into our thread starting trouble and now it is locked. I'm just so tired of
this crap. One insult after another.

New game, let's put all these people on our Ignore List so that we do not have to arfue or even read any of their trashiness. We can make this our all-around thread. From Hillary/Political Chato to our Everyday Life Chat(As this is talk about anything chat).

Yeah?

So you suggest we use this thread as a dual political talk/personal chitchat thread? :wavey:

I don't mind. :)

Paneru
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:35 PM
So you suggest we use this thread as a dual political talk/personal chitchat thread? :wavey:

I don't mind. :)

Yeah, all in one!

And the best thing is that it is out of that 'Political Subforum'.

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I was going to point that out too :lol: Yay.

Paneru
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Some great young pics of our threads namesake! :cool:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/491282704_c871444838.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44590000/jpg/_44590227_clinton512a.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/leobharley/hillary%20young.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1028/1326685086_0703a6a5c3.jpg?v=0

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/26/amd_hillary-young.jpg

http://clee4654.googlepages.com/HillaryClinton1960s.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/05/us/05clinton.1-600.jpg

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Nerdy Hilly :hearts:

plantman
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:13 PM
The photo's are great....Thanks Paneru!:)

It feels just like home here!:worship::worship:

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Kart was right. We were/are wrong for taking the bait. And they were wrong for being childish adults and coming into our thread. As we long as ignore them, we can keep this thread.

Please, seriously, ignore them. Let's make it clear who the real problem is.

Paneru
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Kart was right. We were/are wrong for taking the bait. And they were wrong for being childish adults and coming into our thread. As we long as ignore them, we can keep this thread.

Please, seriously, ignore them. Let's make it clear who the real problem is.

Yeah, we were at fault for taking the bait and allowing them to shutdown our thread, which they have achieved. So, we shall learn from it.

I've simply put all of them on my ignore list, I do not care to
look at anything they have to say. It's done.

Paneru
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:47 PM
The photo's are great....Thanks Paneru!:)

It feels just like home here!:worship::worship:

:D

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 05:51 PM
As long as this is a team ignoring effort :p :lol:

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Hillary going to Michigan. Obama trying to ensure a victory in that state.

Grand Rapids stop planned when Hillary Clinton campaigns for Obama Saturday
by The Grand Rapids Press
Wednesday September 24, 2008, 11:10 AM
Hillary Clinton is expected in Grand Rapids Saturday, as she stumps for Barack Obama across the state.

Clinton, who narrowly lost to Obama in her quest for the Democratic presidential nomination, is making stops in Flint, Lansing and Grand Rapids.

According to the Obama campaign, the New York senator will focus on economic issues and steps Obama would take to turn Michigan's faltering economy around.

Kent County Democratic Chairwoman Sue Levy said she is "thrilled" by Clinton's appearance.

"I can't recall Hillary ever being here. Of course we are thrilled for that.

"I think Hillary will energize a lot of women. I think Hillary is totally dedicated to doing whatever she can to support this campaign.

"It just shows the public how solid the Democrats are."

Levy believes that Clinton will also help shore up support for Obama among white, working-class voters that have thus far resisted his campaign.

In battleground states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, Clinton used a sizable advantage in that group to defeat Obama.

"I think a lot of workers trust and remember the Clinton years. They were good years," Levy said. "Hillary kind of brings that with her and the Clinton name. We have known Hillary since 1992."

Details of her appearance were to be released later.

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/09/hillary_clinton_will_campaign.html

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 08:51 PM
Hillary and Biden are "friends." :eek: Maybe he calls her at 3am. ;)

Hillary Clinton: Happy to stump for Obama-Biden

Tags: Tales from the Trail: 2008, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Sarah Palin, vice president

WASHINGTON - Given the rise of Sarah Palin’s political star, is Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama regretting his decision not to choose Hillary Clinton as his running mate?

Palin, the Republican vice presidential running mate to White House hopeful John McCain, thinks so and even Obama’s running mate wondered whether Clinton would have been a better choice instead of Joe Biden. But what about Clinton herself?

“We have a great Democratic vice-presidential candidate,” Clinton said when asked about Palin’s comment in an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America” that will air on Tuesday.

Clinton praised her “friend” Biden as a strong leader who understands the big issues the United States faces at home and abroad.

“So I’m very happy going out campaigning as hard as I can for both Barack and Joe,” Clinton said.

Palin told ABC’s World News Tonight anchor Charlie Gibson on Friday she believed Obama regretted not picking Clinton, his chief rival for the Democratic nomination, as his No. 2.

“I think he’s regretting not picking her now, I do. What, what determination, and grit, and even grace through some tough shots that were fired her way — she handled those well,” Palin said.

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/09/15/hillary-clinton-happy-to-stump-for-obama-biden/

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Now time for some Hill pictures to flood this thread. :D Our Hill. :hearts:

The most famous one of them all:

http://albanysinsanity.wnymedia.net/blogs/files/2007/08/scary-hillary-clinton.thumbnail.jpg

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 08:59 PM
http://www.unknownhighway.com/images/uploads/our-next-president.jpg

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 09:00 PM
"I look like what?!"

http://www.bossip.com/wp-content/uploads/hillary-clinton.bmp

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Omg. ROFL.

http://wonkette.com/assets/resources/2008/04/hillaryandmaskhillary.jpg

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 09:04 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Hillary_Clinton_speaking_at_Families_USA.jpg

Oh Hillary. So beautiful and yet so smart.

LeonHart
Sep 24th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Moderators....if you are reading this. I am extremely disappointed by the action you took in locking our thread. By doing so, you have taken a side. Rather than punishing the offenders, you are rewarding them. We have the courtesy to give the Obama supporters their space to discuss anti-Hillary/McCain in their thread, but they cannot give the same respect to us so the Hillary thread has to be shut down? Tell me how this is logical.

And yes I have all those people on my ignore list.

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Moderators....if you are reading this. I am extremely disappointed by the action you took in locking our thread. By doing so, you have taken a side. Rather than punishing the offenders, you are rewarding them. We have the courtesy to give the Obama supporters their space to discuss anti-Hillary/McCain in their thread, but they cannot give the same respect to us so the Hillary thread has to be shut down? Tell me how this is logical.

And yes I have all those people on my ignore list.

And if you read Kart's explanation, we were blamed for taking the bait.

Seems as though the board heads have taken a "status quo" with that group of posters and refuse to do anything to them. They've been doing similar things on this board for YEARS.

We have to take it into our own hands and just refuse to acknowledge their existence since the board is unable to see things clearly and not view things from only one side.

LeonHart
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Whatever I'm not gonna feel down about this. That thread was covered in dried up Kool-Aid mildew anyways. It's about time we have a brand new thread and start out fresh 'n clean :)

For a little laugh...here's a video that always cracks me up. :angel:

bB16X3P3EUI&feature=related

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:14 PM
:lol: Always a good time.

Kart
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:23 PM
Moderators....if you are reading this. I am extremely disappointed by the action you took in locking our thread. By doing so, you have taken a side. Rather than punishing the offenders, you are rewarding them. We have the courtesy to give the Obama supporters their space to discuss anti-Hillary/McCain in their thread, but they cannot give the same respect to us so the Hillary thread has to be shut down? Tell me how this is logical.

And yes I have all those people on my ignore list.
Yeah I'm sorry about that. There was always going to be innocent fall out but something needed to be done.

I can assure you that I haven't taken anyone's side and I certainly have no intention of doing so - perhaps primarily because I have no interest in US politics whatsoever. Though you're entitled to interpret my actions differently which is your choice.

Oh and I didn't 'blame' anyone specifically either. I simply had no interest in who started it because it had progressed way beyond that and leaving it to continue the way it had been was unacceptable.

I'm not going to debate this further with you but I acknowledge your grievance. Which I agree is unfortunate but inevitable.

On the plus side - if you want to see it, I expect the thread will be re-opened eventually and you still have this thread which I'm hoping will not follow suit.

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah I'm sorry about that. There was always going to be innocent fall out but something needed to be done.

I can assure you that I haven't taken anyone's side and I certainly have no intention of doing so - perhaps primarily because I have no interest in US politics whatsoever. Though you're entitled to interpret my actions differently which is your choice.

Oh and I didn't 'blame' anyone specifically either. I simply had no interest in who started it because it had progressed way beyond that.

On the plus side - if you want to see it, I expect the thread will be re-opened eventually and you still have this thread which I'm hoping will not follow suit.

I hope so, too. Especially after you closing the thread and wanting it not to continue, when people post in here who really shouldn't be, I hope their posts are deleted and something is done.

Demska was banned from the Serena forum, correct? How come? The same principle applies here. Looking for a fight based on differing opinions.

Kart
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:30 PM
I didn't close the thread because I didn't want the topic to continue but because the fighting could not continue.

Re: this thread, it has the same privileges as any clearly labelled chat thread and if you report unwelcome visitors, their posts will be dealt with appropriately.

I've got nothing to say about Demska as I don't comment on individual cases other than with the individual involved.

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Julie won today! :D 76 76 over Rao. 6 match winning streak. :hearts: She is a pistol.

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Love you, Kart. :kiss:

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:34 PM
Julie :drool:

Although I like Sunitha :p Her pic in Maxim :eek: :drool:

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:46 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dP55wy7NK3gm/340x.jpghttp://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/hillary-clinton-10.jpg

Put 30 years on Julie and I think we have our future Hillary! :hearts:

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:47 PM
Julie Rodham Clinton Ditty? :confused:

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:49 PM
I love the sound of it! :D

JRCD! JRCD!

LeonHart
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:51 PM
Julie who? :o

LeonHart
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:52 PM
Oh I see, never heard of her :o

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:53 PM
Oh I see, never heard of her :o

OMG LEON. :o :o :o

Julie Ditty, the next big American thing. She won Albuquerque last week. :D She is back inside the top 100. :p

She is from a Southern state too! Like Hillary! She'd turn Georgia and Kentucky blue, two home states like Hill too! :D (Hill has 4 but whatever!)

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:54 PM
I saw Jill Craybas at the Rogers Cup :drool: She is so fit, and hit the ball so hard.

In The Zone
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:56 PM
I saw Jill Craybas at the Rogers Cup :drool: She is so fit, and hit the ball so hard.

JILL! :hearts: I met her at Forest Hills in 2006. So sweet and so amazing. Saw her at the US Open this year. You can see her abs poking out of her shirt. If you put a guy's head on her, I might be aroused.

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:56 PM
Leon, who is that Martina chick in your sig?

Martina who? The only Martina I know of is Queen Martina Muller :hearts:

Ellery
Sep 24th, 2008, 11:56 PM
I also Abigail and Jamea :hearts: but I didn't recognize Abigail until it was too late to ask for an autograph.

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:04 AM
Abigail has great hands at the net but besides that. :o They should have won the USO Dubz SF but they choked.

Jamea needs to be stop being so injured. :o Saw her 1R at Forest Hills this year. Beat Erakovic. She has a good game if she can stay healthy.

Ellery
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:06 AM
It was really fun :) Ai is so sweet :hearts: :hearts:

It was a bit awkward, because when I asked Jamea for an autograph, Abigail, who was just standing next to her, kinda looked with at me with an expectant smile :lol: I didn't recognize her, and felt embarrassed about asking her for an autograph so I kinda ignored her :o

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:07 AM
You'd think from the news channels and from this own board that all Hillary supporters love John and Sarah. :o

Clinton Supporters Aren't All Flocking to McCain-Palin
September 22, 2008 04:19 PM ET | Morgan E. Felchner | Permanent Link


If you watch cable news, you'd think that because John McCain put Sarah Palin on the ticket, Hillary Clinton supporters are flocking to the Republican team. While more women are now comfortable with McCain, the majority of Clinton supporters aren't moving to the newest woman in the race. Many are still upset Clinton isn't on the Democratic ticket but are coming around to support Barack Obama. (But there are still enough Clinton die-hards who vow to support McCain that it could make a difference in the race.)

The Lifetime Networks "Every Woman Counts" poll of likely female voters, which was released today, shows a dramatic shift since late July on the question of who best understands women. In July, 52 percent of women chose Obama and 18 percent chose McCain. Now, it is a near tie, with Obama-Biden getting 44 percent to McCain-Palin's 42. Although what exactly "best understands" correlates to in terms of voting is unclear, it is a definite boon for McCain. When McCain put Palin on the ticket, he helped make Republican women more comfortable with his candidacy, but based on this poll and others, I don't think hoards of Democratic women have jumped ship.

Of Clinton supporters, a majority (57 percent) are upset that Obama did not pick Clinton as his vice president but 38 percent say they will still support Obama. But this isn't the whole picture: Thirty-one percent of Clinton supporters said they weren't upset that she wasn't added to the ticket. We can safely assume these are now Obama supporters. That means 69 percent of Clinton backers are now supporting Obama. This number should grow, but it takes time to let wounds heal. Clinton's speech at the Democratic Convention was a start, but seeing her on the trail for Obama this fall will help move those last supporters into his camp.

The poll dispels the rumor that Clinton supporters were flocking in droves to McCain-Palin. Thirty-five percent of Clinton supporters are less likely to vote for McCain now that Palin is on the ticket. Forty-seven percent said her selection made no difference. Only 19 percent said they are more likely to support McCain. The big number for the Obama campaign is that 23 percent of Clinton supporters say they'll vote for McCain, up from 18 percent in July.

I wouldn't bet the farm on McCain-Palin getting all 23 percent of those Clinton's supporters. But in a close election, any defections could swing the election.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/morgan-felchner/2008/09/22/clinton-supporters-arent-all-flocking-to-mccain-palin.html

Kart
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:41 AM
Love you, Kart. :kiss:
I love me too.

I should add though that if this thread turns into a medium for covertly bashing other posters or a place where people think they can bait others with immunity then that is inaccurate as well as unacceptable.

I'm sure that won't be happening but, given recent history, it's worth reiterating at an early stage.

Herein ends any participation I intend to have in this thread.

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 12:47 AM
I love me too.

I should add though that if this thread turns into a medium for covertly bashing other posters or a place where people think they can bait others with immunity then that is inaccurate as well as unacceptable.

I'm sure that won't be happening but, given recent history, it's worth reiterating at an early stage.

Herein ends any participation I intend to have in this thread.

That won't happen and hasn't every happened. :) Promises.

LeonHart
Sep 25th, 2008, 01:24 AM
I don't bait people, they come by themselves. :o

By the way thank you Kart, your responses are appreciated.

Ellery
Sep 25th, 2008, 01:28 AM
Thank you Kart. :wavey:

Paneru
Sep 25th, 2008, 02:53 AM
Senator Clinton Hosts 7th Annual New York Farm Day

auiiv0bHGKY

Ellery
Sep 25th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Hey guys :wavey:

Paneru
Sep 25th, 2008, 05:46 PM
rdWjjvpH1Qw

A vid of Chicago Latinos.

Are these Hillary supporters deemed
racist because they backed Hillary but
will not be backing Obama as they are
saying that Obama doesn't do anything for them.

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 08:20 PM
interesting read.

Ex-Clinton aide on politics and sexism

By Daniel Scarpinato
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
If you go...
• What: 20th Annual YWCA Women's Leadership Conference
• When: Oct. 3, 7:30 a.m. until 4 p.m.
• Where: Westin La Paloma Resort & Spa, 3800 E. Sunrise Drive
• Cost: $135 per person including continental breakfast
• Registration deadline: Friday To register or for more information: ywcatucson.org or call 884-7810, ext. 108.

When historians write about the 2008 election, it may be remembered as the year of the woman.
The candidacies of Hillary Clinton, and now of John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, have opened a national dialogue on a subject long ignored: The role of women in politics and the sexism some believe they still face.
It's a topic Dee Dee Myers, former press secretary to Bill Clinton, will take up next week in Tucson at the 20th Annual YWCA Women's Leadership Conference. Myers, the keynote speaker and author of "Why Women Should Rule the World," talked to the Star about the role of gender in politics, but much of the discussion naturally turned to Palin.
And the Democratic analyst's views of the Alaska governor may surprise you.
Why should women rule the world?
"Well, my title is intentionally a bit provocative to make people think about what that might be like, but my point is that women should rule the world alongside men because, in many ways, men and women are different. Women bring a different life experience. We bring, sometimes, a different perspective on problems . . . different ways of solving conflict.
"So we take all those qualities that women have, and we put them on the table next to all the qualities that men have, and I think we get a different look at our problems and we come up with better solutions."
Arizona has a long record of electing women to office. Why haven't we seen that on the national stage?
"The reasons are complicated. I think there are still a lot of obstacles to women's achievement. There are stereotypes that hold women back, and there are double standards.
"But I think one of the things that's really important is role models for women. Nothing succeeds like success. Once people get used to seeing a woman as governor it's much easier to elect another woman, and I think Arizona is case in point. . . . Hillary Clinton made Sarah Palin possible and Sarah Palin will make a lot more women around the country possible.
"Even though I disagree with Palin's politics, I think she's good for women."
Do you think Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin have been treated differently by the media because they are women?
"Yeah. And I think what's interesting is people like me complained about sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton. It took Sarah Palin for people on the right to say the same thing. When I hear Pat Buchanan and Dick Morris and Rush Limbaugh complaining about sexist coverage in the media, I don't know whether to laugh or to rejoice."
Is it fair to ask whether Sarah Palin can balance motherhood and the vice presidency?
"You know, I really don't think it is. I trust women and families to make those decisions. I trusted the Clintons to balance their choices when they had a child at home. And I trust the Obamas to do the same thing. And I trust the Palins. I mean, Sarah Palin has an extended family. She has a husband who is very involved. She's sort of figured out how to do it. We trust men to work it out with their families, even when their wives work."
Gov. Palin's candidacy has created an interesting discussion about identity politics. Here you have a conservative woman who in many ways is living a progressive lifestyle — not having to choose between work and family. What does this tell us about traditional gender roles?
"The women's movement historically has been a progressive movement. But the movement has been so successful that now even women from the conservative movement — who were against everything these progressive women were for 30 years ago — have embraced the reality.
"And I think that really rubs a lot of progressive women the wrong way. . . . But I think it's an incredible good thing. . . . I think the response to Sarah Palin says that a lot of women — and men — identify with her life story. . . . But it also says there is a hunger for a different kind of leadership. Not only does she come from outside of Washington, but she's a woman. She embraces change in a way we haven't seen on a national ticket in 24 years."
But what would a conservative woman bring to the table that we wouldn't just get with a conservative man?
"She brings a completely different biography and life story. . . . (Texas Sen.) Kay Bailey Hutchison, who I interview for my book, a quite conservative woman, said when she was young, she was working, she was paying into her (individual retirement account). And she got married and temporarily stopped working and found out she could no longer pay into her IRA, and it infuriated her.
"So, one of the first things she did when she was elected was got together with other women . . . and created the Homemaker IRA. She brought that problem to Washington, and she solved it."
During the 1984 election, when Walter Mondale picked Geraldine Ferraro, was that thought to be a significant moment for women?
"Yeah, and I think in some ways the result of that was disappointing. I think it did change things, but not as much as people would have hoped."
So do you think we'll look back on this election as a real turning point for women?
"I do think it's a major turning point, and I think one of the reasons is Hillary Clinton ran on her own. She was the first woman to win a presidential primary. She ended up winning 20. . . . I think Sarah Palin is a direct descendant of Hillary Clinton. If the McCain campaign hadn't recognized there was something to this, they wouldn't have picked her. And kudos to Sarah Palin for acknowledging both Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton, even in front of audiences that don't necessary want to hear it. I give her great credit for that."

Jankolover.
Sep 25th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Is this thread about Hillary Clinton? :hearts:

I am still so sad that she lose to Obama. What a lady. :worship:

But I cannot vote because I was not born here so :shrug: :p

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Is this thread about Hillary Clinton? :hearts:

I am still so sad that she lose to Obama. What a lady. :worship:

But I cannot vote because I was not born here so :shrug: :p

Yep. :) What a lady is right. :D Her career is far from over, though. Stay tuned!

darrinbaker00
Sep 25th, 2008, 10:44 PM
Yep. :) What a lady is right. :D Her career is far from over, though. Stay tuned!
Of course Hillary's career isn't over! In fact, I'll go so far as to say she will be the greatest Senator in the history of New York. ;)

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2008, 11:42 PM
Of course Hillary's career isn't over! In fact, I'll go so far as to say she will be the greatest Senator in the history of New York. ;)

Exactly! :p I can't wait to vote for her in 2012. :p :p ;)

G1Player2
Sep 25th, 2008, 11:47 PM
Exactly! :p I can't wait to vote for her in 2012. :p :p ;)

I don't think she'll run for the senate again in 2012 so you'll have to vote for someone else. :p

LeonHart
Sep 26th, 2008, 12:44 AM
rdWjjvpH1Qw

A vid of Chicago Latinos.

Are these Hillary supporters deemed
racist because they backed Hillary but
will not be backing Obama as they are
saying that Obama doesn't do anything for them.

Clearly these people are racists, Cmon now that's an easy one :rolleyes:

Paneru
Sep 26th, 2008, 04:06 AM
Exactly! :p I can't wait to vote for her in 2012. :p :p ;)

Ignore! ;)

Ellery
Sep 26th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Hey guys!

So glad my week is over :o

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 04:57 PM
WEEKEND! Celebrate it with some WOMANIZER. :drool:

Hill has her ipod now listening to it while solving the financial crisis. SUCH A MULTITASKER.

jacobruiz
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Hillary would have made an excellent president. I supported her and was sad that she did not have enough support to win the nomination.

But in my opinion anyone who previously supported Hillary Clinton and now supports McCain or refuses to support anyone for president of the United States is a traitor to Hillary's values, ideals and all the hard work she has put in for this country and the Democratic Party.

jacobruiz
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:26 PM
Obama will be a great president and Hillary will continue to be a major force in the Democratic Party and the world.
Will she choose to run in 2016? Why not? She'll still be younger than McCain is now.

Ellery
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Debate coming up, right? :bounce: Good luck John.

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Obama will be a great president and Hillary will continue to be a major force in the Democratic Party and the world.
Will she choose to run in 2016? Why not? She'll still be younger than McCain is now.

We can hope for the best. :)

young_gunner913
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:49 PM
:lol: @ this thread title. Hillraiser. Loves it. :hearts:

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:52 PM
:lol: @ this thread title. Hillraiser. Loves it. :hearts:

It is an actual term! It is for Hillary's like top 20 fundraisers. :D On WTAW, we are her top 20 Hillraisers. :D

jacobruiz
Sep 26th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Debate coming up, right? :bounce: Good luck John.

I admit I haven't been reading the political threads on here much (too much hysteria) but why would a Hillary supporter with any integrity want McCain and the Republicans to win either the debate or the election?:confused:
It goes against everything she was fighting for!

LeonHart
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:02 PM
I admit I haven't been reading the political threads on here much (too much hysteria) but why would a Hillary supporter with any integrity want McCain and the Republicans to win either the debate or the election?:confused:
It goes against everything she was fighting for!


We're not suppose to make this thread political ;)

There are many reasons though...maybe you should visit a Hillary Clinton forum to find out! :D

young_gunner913
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:08 PM
It is an actual term! It is for Hillary's like top 20 fundraisers. :D On WTAW, we are her top 20 Hillraisers. :D

Cool. :yeah: I think overall, Hillary had the best nickanmes by far. Hilldog, Billary, Hillraisers :hearts: I can't get enough of them. :D

We're not suppose to make this thread political ;)

There are many reasons though...maybe you should visit a Hillary Clinton forum to find out! :D

There are many reasons why Hillary supporters should support McCain/Palin? :weirdo: Can I buy some drugs from you, my supply is low.

jacobruiz
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:19 PM
We're not suppose to make this thread political ;)

There are many reasons though...maybe you should visit a Hillary Clinton forum to find out! :D

Thanks and I won't continue the "political" talk after this.
:mad: But I swear, for those of you who aren't really Republicans -
NADER IN 2000 AND NOW YOU IDIOTS IN 2008!!!
NO NO NOOOOO!!! :banghead:

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Thanks and I won't continue the "political" talk after this.
:mad: But I swear, for those of you who aren't really Republicans -
NADER IN 2000 AND NOW YOU IDIOTS IN 2008!!!
NO NO NOOOOO!!! :banghead:

There are people who don't look at things in a "Democrats vs. Republicans" view. I mean, we do that for Congress. Congress was USELESS from 2000-2006. Dems took over in 2006. Any difference? None at all.

jacobruiz
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:26 PM
There are people who don't look at things in a "Democrats vs. Republicans" view. I mean, we do that for Congress. Congress was USELESS from 2000-2006. Dems took over in 2006. Any difference? None at all.

Hillary isn't one those people, however. And anyone who thinks a Democratic administration would be no different than a Republican one is seriously naive and uninformed.:shrug:

Kart
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:39 PM
There are many reasons why Hillary supporters should support McCain/Palin? :weirdo: Can I buy some drugs from you, my supply is low.
Please stop trying to wind posters in here up.

This is a chat thread for like minded posters not a political debate thread - kindly visit the political sub-forum instead.

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Hillary isn't one those people, however. And anyone who thinks a Democratic administration would be no different than a Republican one is seriously naive and uninformed.:shrug:

And who said they are unaware of that? Everyone is free to make their own decision, whether you agree or disagree. :)

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 08:42 PM
This has been a rumor and I didn't want to validate it but apparently it is gaining more and more truth/strength. Or maybe just Hillary supporters holding out for that 3am phone call from Obama. :(


Biden 'to be replaced by Hillary' on Obama ticket

Friday, 26 September 2008


Several US websites are today claiming vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden is set drop out of the US election to be replaced by Hillary Clinton on the Democratic presidential ticket.


Biden, running as Barack Obama's number two, is said to be ready to drop out due to health reasons.

The 61-year-old had surgery ten ago years for two brain aneurysms and could leave the race after the vice presidential debates take place on 2 October, leaving the position open for Mrs Clinton to step up.

Pundits say the huge media interest surrounding John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin has prompted a rethink in the Democratic camp.

The Obama campaign's official website 'Fight the Smears' - set up to suppress any damaging internet rumours - has not addressed the latest reports, fuelled speculation that there may be some truth in the rumour.

The only statement Obama's camp have released is to say that Biden's medical records will be released shortly.

Biden has been responsible for a number of gaffes in the last two weeks, including admitting his own ad campaign was 'terrible' in a CBS news interview and at one stage even acknowledged that Hillary Clinton may have been a safer bet for Obama's vice president position.

However Democratic supporters have dismissed claims that Biden may drop out.

Democratic strategist Bob Beckel said: "It's crazy...it's just not going to happen."

Christopher Hull, presidential scholar at Georgetown University in Washington DC said: “Joe Biden is not that big a liability. Joe Biden was arguably the most experienced candidate in the [Democratic primary] race.”

“Joe Biden, of course, has shot off his mouth and gotten himself in trouble,” he added. “It’s Joe Biden we’re talking about.”

Obama has stood firm on his decision to install Biden as his number two, telling NBC's Today Show on Tuesday this week: 'Joe Biden is also an outstanding public servant and I am very proud of the choice that I made.' He added that he's a 'great admirer of Senator Clinton's' and hopes she will remain 'a close adviser'.

LeonHart
Sep 26th, 2008, 09:06 PM
This has been a rumor and I didn't want to validate it but apparently it is gaining more and more truth/strength. Or maybe just Hillary supporters holding out for that 3am phone call from Obama. :(

Not gonna happen...Hillary is too smart to hop onto a sinking ship. Plus Obama had his chance, he blew it. Hillary is too busy campaigning for her other friends anyways if you guys have been getting her emails :)

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Not gonna happen...Hillary is too smart to hop onto a sinking ship. Plus Obama had his chance, he blew it. Hillary is too busy campaigning for her other friends anyways if you guys have been getting her emails :)

Yes but it'd be political suicide for Hillary to say no. I'd gladly get vote for the Democratic ticket then.

Haute
Sep 26th, 2008, 11:46 PM
It feels like a dream come true for me, I have a VIP ticket to see Hillary speak tomorrow night! :eek: :worship: I'll probably be sitting with one of the State Senators and her staff, so there is a very good chance that I could meet her!

I very well may die tomorrow if I meet her. :lol: :hearts:

In The Zone
Sep 26th, 2008, 11:57 PM
It feels like a dream come true for me, I have a VIP ticket to see Hillary speak tomorrow night! :eek: :worship: I'll probably be sitting with one of the State Senators and her staff, so there is a very good chance that I could meet her!

I very well may die tomorrow if I meet her. :lol: :hearts:

Omg. I hate you! Take pictures! :)!

Haute
Sep 27th, 2008, 12:07 AM
Mixed with the venti latte I just had (:lol: ) I'm already shaking with excitement! :rolls:

And I will be taking many many pictures tomorrow, hopefully one with her! :hearts:

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 12:13 AM
Mixed with the venti latte I just had (:lol: ) I'm already shaking with excitement! :rolls:

And I will be taking many many pictures tomorrow, hopefully one with her! :hearts:

Omg. DEAD. So jealous! :D Take a good one for an avatar. :drool:

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 01:56 AM
Watching the debates and John is really kicking some butt and calling Obama out on facts! As well as being cool and calm as well!

And John gave a shoutout giving some love to Hillary! :cool:

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 02:15 AM
Watching the debates and John is really kicking some butt and calling Obama out on facts! As well as being cool and calm as well!

And John gave a shoutout giving some love to Hillary! :cool:

John's shoutout was so CHEAP and SO BLATANT. I laughed so hard. :lol:

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 02:19 AM
John's shoutout was so CHEAP and SO BLATANT. I laughed so hard. :lol:

Ofcourse it was! :lol:

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 02:35 AM
John just compared Obama to Bush. Paneru, did you help prep John? :eek:

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 02:37 AM
John just compared Obama to Bush. Paneru, did you help prep John? :eek:

Ofcourse I did, I got connections!
What, you didn't know? :lol:

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 03:00 AM
Should be Hillary :( is right. And that is right to view John like that. But foreign policy is his deal. He should have looked strong like he did.

Obama needs to pull his middle class message and broader appeal which he tried to do at the beginning and end. He'll do better in the next debates.

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 03:12 AM
They had Hillary and discarded her as irrelevant(one of the terms I heard used by an obama person). If the Dems lose, they have no one to blame but themselves. They forwent experience and knowledge or Hollywood sma\oke and mirrors.

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 03:42 AM
That kind of language and tude is why I think it got deleted in the first place. ;) :lol:

Serenita
Sep 27th, 2008, 04:13 AM
I admit I haven't been reading the political threads on here much (too much hysteria) but why would a Hillary supporter with any integrity want McCain and the Republicans to win either the debate or the election?:confused:
It goes against everything she was fighting for!
..buy gold buy gold....

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 05:29 AM
I admit I haven't been reading the political threads on here much (too much hysteria) but why would a Hillary supporter with any integrity want McCain and the Republicans to win either the debate or the election?:confused:
It goes against everything she was fighting for!

Hon, what Obama and the DNC have done to Hillary goes against the party ideals she stood for. And in the certain types of attacks made on Palin and McCain do the same. And before you say, "well they did this", it's not an excuse and two wrong's do not make a right. the DNC with Dean, Pelosi, Obama ect...regarded themselves on not being like Repubs. and yet use the tried and true Repub. tactics on the Clinton's. tell me, how do I respect or support a party and a nominee along with its supporters that have berated, name called, and tried brow-beating the Clinton's and their supporters?

Ideals forgone to get Obama to this point? What is to stop them from doing the same should they get to the top?

This is rhetorical. No answers needed.

I no longer support the DNC as it stands and will not
support their nominee. And that is the long and short of it.

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 05:31 AM
On a lighter note, TGIF! :cool:

I feel the day has been productive and I am feeling good! :cool:

jacobruiz
Sep 27th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Hon, what Obama and the DNC have done to Hillary goes against the party ideals she stood for. And in the certain types of attacks made on Palin and McCain do the same. And before you say, "well they did this", it's not an excuse and two wrong's do not make a right. the DNC with Dean, Pelosi, Obama ect...regarded themselves on not being like Repubs. and yet use the tried and true Repub. tactics on the Clinton's. tell me, how do I respect or support a party and a nominee along with its supporters that have berated, name called, and tried brow-beating the Clinton's and their supporters?Ideals forgone to get Obama to this point? What is to stop them from doing the same should they get to the top?This is rhetorical. No answers needed.I no longer support the DNC as it stands and will notsupport their nominee. And that is the long and short of it.

I stated in the post to which you are replying that to support McCain and the Republican Party is to go against everything Hillary has fought for. I'm talking about her ideals and principals, and the liberal policies she has worked to put in place her entire career.

Yeah, I hated to hear Hillary trashed the way she was but this is an election and the nomination process is never pretty. Some of Obama's supporters disrespect Hillary and Bill way too much - yes. But I don't believe Obama himself ever did or said anything over the top. He can't control the idiocy of some of his supporters - he did break with his pastor who was one of the worst.

You need to develop a thicker skin; this isn't about a single candidate so much as the policies we MUST have to bring our country out of this steep decline the past eight years have brought us to.

And are you actually defending Palin? She deserves what she gets - Hillary has more intelligence in her little finger than this woman will ever have! Palin could become President which would be absolute disaster.

I certainly don't believe the Democratic Party is the be all to end all - I'm much more liberal than most of it's members. But, really, it's all we've got. And in the coming years Hillary will play a bigger role than ever in the party's direction and policy making and will be a major force if the Dems can finally get in the White House again.

Ellery
Sep 27th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Wow at that rumor :eek: :scared:

Anyway, I've finally made up my mind to vote conservative in the Canadian elections :shrug: These American elections have helped me realize how dumb it is to vote for a candidate just because someone belongs to a particular party :shrug: I would much rather have a strong conservative leader than a weak ineffectual liberal one.

In The Zone
Sep 27th, 2008, 04:14 PM
And that kind of attitude is why we can't "openly" express and discuss. :lol:

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Wow at that rumor :eek: :scared:

Anyway, I've finally made up my mind to vote conservative in the Canadian elections :shrug: These American elections have helped me realize how dumb it is to vote for a candidate just because someone belongs to a particular party :shrug: I would much rather have a strong conservative leader than a weak ineffectual liberal one.

I agree.

What put me over the top was the words continually not running in-line with the actions. And the failure/unwillingness of the msm to call it out.

Hypocrisy/Double Standard is the
overriding word(s) that has come at me.

Paneru
Sep 27th, 2008, 04:16 PM
And that kind of attitude is why we can't "openly" express and discuss. :lol:

Yes sir!

Bait not to be taken! :cool:

Haute
Sep 27th, 2008, 11:56 PM
I didn't get to meet her :sad: but I have many pictures as promised! :D

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/VeeFan/Hillary.jpg

:hearts:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/VeeFan/Smile.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/VeeFan/Four.jpg

Paneru
Sep 28th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Oh, sweetness! :cool:

Thanks! :D

Haute
Sep 28th, 2008, 12:17 AM
She was absolutely incredible tonight. :worship: It still astounds me, how did she not get the nom? :sad:

A lot of it, of course, was tailored to speak about the hard economic situation in Michigan. She also talked about the current financial crisis with Wall Street, and where has the Bush administration been to help out the thousands of people who are having their homes foreclosed now that it's bailing out the financial institutions.

What a personality she has though, able to make light of her own primary run against Obama. "I had a few debates with Senator Obama myself... 22, but who's counting?" :lol: It speaks a lot about her to overcome the sometimes bitter primary run to back Obama in the general. I say Hillary for Secretary of State. :cool:

Paneru
Sep 28th, 2008, 12:28 AM
She was absolutely incredible tonight. :worship: It still astounds me, how did she not get the nom? :sad:

A lot of it, of course, was tailored to speak about the hard economic situation in Michigan. She also talked about the current financial crisis with Wall Street, and where has the Bush administration been to help out the thousands of people who are having their homes foreclosed now that it's bailing out the financial institutions.

What a personality she has though, able to make light of her own primary run against Obama. "I had a few debates with Senator Obama myself... 22, but who's counting?" :lol: It speaks a lot about her to overcome the sometimes bitter primary run to back Obama in the general. I say Hillary for Secretary of State. :cool:

How did she not get it, it boggles the mind! :sad:

She kept her word.

Hillary said early on in the primary season that she'd back whomever the DNC nominee was. So, she has kept to her word and like you said, given the bitterness in the process, especially towards the end, here she still stands! Gotta love her! :cool:

Haute
Sep 28th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Story on her visit today, and some snippets of her speech:

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=6418398

Ellery
Sep 28th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Thanks Haute :D

Paneru
Sep 28th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Being a Rebel Is Not for the Faint of Heart

http://blog.pumapac.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/twighlight-zone.jpg
(image by Billie Jo)

I just read what I think is an extremely insightful point in an email. The writer, a very smart guy with a LONG memory says,

“ We need to identify ourselves as from the Clinton wing of the party, and continually point out that we represent the base. As writer Michael Lind points out, the Northern “liberal” wing [of the Democratic Party] has Ivy League leadership mills. But populist economic Democrats are nearly WITHOUT LEADERS, except for the random exceptions like and Bill and Hillary. Except for the fluke of skin color, we’d have close to 2/3 of the party on our side this time — even though most of the party leadership defines itself in opposition to us.”

(emphasis mine)


Here’s the thing — the Obama Movement started a civil war in our party. Led by elitists from the “Ivy League leadership mills” (love that phrase), they systematically identified those blocs resistant to their message (that’d be us) and excised them one by one. The idea was that they’d secure the nomination with the SLIMMEST of majorities and then worry about the consequences after. Rural whites? Out! Women over 35? Out! Florida and Michigan? Out! Basically it boils down to Donna Brazile’s famous line: “Message to the base: Stay home.”

The upside to a scorched earth primary strategy was that the Obama message would be unequivocally left-wing and progressive. Hard core opposed to the war; staunch opposition to FISA; resolute opposition to “politics as usual.” Yes, yes, WE know that it was all hooey and that Obama himself contradicted and betrayed his base as soon as Hillary was effectively knee-capped and had to hobble off the field. But, by then it was too late. Obama’s followers were in for the long haul. There is no looking back for the Blogger Boiz, the Ivy Leaguers, and the rest of Whole Foods Nation. Those he persuaded with his message were REALLY, REALLY persuaded. They became his most loyal and permanent followers (think Markos and Josh and Olbermann).

The downside, the danger Obama courted by using a Divide and Conquer strategy, was that he might seriously alienate millions of Democrats whose votes he’d need in November to win. But that was a gamble they made. Their belief was that we’d come around. Women would be sufficiently subdued with the Roe bat to pull the lever for Obama on Election Day. Rural and lower working class whites would be sufficiently afraid of the economic threats of recession, foreclosure, and layoffs to vote against the Republicans and their dismal record. In other words, we’d have nowhere else to go. Of course we’d come around.

But here’s the thing, and it’s why I always say we are the ones no one was expecting: the Obama Movement was both right about us AND wrong. At the same time. They’re right, WE HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO! We will NOT vote for Barack Obama, BUT we know the Republican Party is not our home — it’s not even a nice vacation cottage. That’s the main reason we Pumas are so out of sorts and discouraged lately. We really AREN’T closet Republicans (Message to the Republicans: Stay on your side of the yard! Just kidding. Sort of.) For some of us, voting against the DONC and Obama by voting in protest for McCain is as easy as pie. These are the moderate-to-conservative Democrats for whom the tenets of Whole Foods Nation are anathema. But for another huge part of our Puma base, voting for McCain is an excruciatingly difficult thing to do — so hard that many of us just won’t be able to do it. These are the moderate-to-liberal Democrats for whom the tenets of Whole Foods Nation are pretty much a-okay! But they’re still not voting for McCain — Pumas in this camp will vote third party or write-in or stay home.

It is more important than ever that we stay united as Pumas. Remember what my email friend said: “Populist economic Democrats are nearly WITHOUT LEADERS”! We know who we are. We know it in our bones that Obama is wrong for our country and even more wrong for our Party. But we DON’T know who’s in charge. Hillary’s back in the Senate, sidelined from national leadership. Bill’s direct influence is limited on all official sides by the DONC, which wants above all else to KEEP BILL CLINTON CONTAINED! So, if we feel rudderless, it’s because we are. This is what the Obama Movement was wrong about. We know we have nowhere else to go, but we also know just as sure as can be that we are NOT going back to the DONC.

So, look in the mirror and face the facts. There are no leaders here. There is no politician or public figure who can sit for us at the table of national power and speak for us or represent our interests. Hillary’s on Capitol Hill mulling her next moves and brooding over what happened. Bill is being Bill (which is a very good thing, but his days of being President are over). We have only ourselves to rely on. This is THE most difficult phase of our movement, while we watch the national election play out without our enthusiastic or whole-hearted participation. Some of us have found, and will continue to find it too tempting not to just jump on the McCain bandwagon. That’s VERY understandable. You can still be a Puma if you’re also a Democrat working for McCain. It’s okay.

The rest of us are discouraged, lonely, and feeling useless. Working for local congressional candidates is a very good thing to do, but it just doesn’t have the Zing and the Rush of a Presidential campaign. But, if we allow our sense of loss and isolation to fuel attacks on each other WE ARE SUNK. Let’s remind ourselves that, as Democrats, we are BY DEFINITION a motley rag-tag group. We are working class, diverse, and far-flung. We found out this year that the DNC doesn’t care about us and would MUCH rawther carry on without our participation or even our votes.

So Puma PAC, if we want to have a leader we’ll have to create one from within. We will have to stay united with each other, with the clear-eyed acceptance that we represent a VAST range of different lifestyles and backgrounds, from really quite conservative all the way to fringe hippie peace-nik free-lovers. Our common and precious shared goal is a love for democracy, fair play, and a level playing field for all citizens — rich or poor, black or white or yellow or brown, woman or man.

When we decided to revolt against the DONC and Obama and every Democrat who shrieks “STUPID RACIST UGLY OLD FAT IGNORANT HYSTERICAL RACIST BITCH” at us; when we committed ourselves to NOT COMING AROUND, we set ourselves on a long and lonely road of rebellion. This will take TIME. But, most importantly, it will take UNITY. That is the secret to Obama’s success. He divided us. Let’s NOT continue his work for him. Let’s recommit ourselves to unity with each other.

No to Obama. Yes to Puma.

http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/09/27/being-a-rebel-is-not-for-the-faint-of-heart/

Fighting against injustice never is!

drake3781
Sep 29th, 2008, 04:33 AM
Hello friends! Just back from vacation!! What is new around this place??? :wavey:

In The Zone
Sep 29th, 2008, 04:35 AM
Hello friends! Just back from vacation!! What is new around this place??? :wavey:

I was just thinking, where is our great Hillraiser drake? :D :hearts:

How have you been, where did you go?

Paneru
Sep 30th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Hello friends! Just back from vacation!! What is new around this place??? :wavey:

Oh, where did you go? :cool:

Well, our old thread got shut down because we took the bait of those
Obama people coming in to cause trouble. They were asking to have us
shut down and in a sense they got their wish. Yet, it's fine.
Our new place! :D

drake3781
Sep 30th, 2008, 03:05 AM
I was just thinking, where is our great Hillraiser drake? :D :hearts:

How have you been, where did you go?

Oh, where did you go? :cool:

Well, our old thread got shut down because we took the bait of those
Obama people coming in to cause trouble. They were asking to have us
shut down and in a sense they got their wish. Yet, it's fine.
Our new place! :D


I am glad it was shut down. Wish we had done it ourselves. :shrug: :(


I had asked Ellery twice to have it locked, but he never did, and never answered me. I felt that the thread was (is) very valuable to those of us who posted in it during the primaries, and that it had served its purpose for that and other purposes after the primaries were only diluting the value of it. Lesson learned, maybe, that you should control your own destiny and know when to fold.


Vacation was to Lake Tahoe! I'll post some pics. Have to upload them first... give me some time. I'm going to try to find out if I can watch Kimiko's match online, which is happening right now!! Go Kimiko!!

In The Zone
Sep 30th, 2008, 03:58 AM
Kimiko lost. :( I'm sorry.

Hope you had fun! :D

drake3781
Sep 30th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Kimiko lost. :( I'm sorry.

Hope you had fun! :D


Yeah, too bad. :p She didn't play very well, and Shahar is tough.

IceHock
Sep 30th, 2008, 05:16 AM
hye guys havent posted in a while, guess it's the college life never much time when partying :p, even though i picked up a bad habit in chewing, well hope all is well with you guys.

In The Zone
Sep 30th, 2008, 05:30 AM
hye guys havent posted in a while, guess it's the college life never much time when partying :p, even though i picked up a bad habit in chewing, well hope all is well with you guys.

Where do you go? :) You're from NY, right?

IceHock
Sep 30th, 2008, 05:32 AM
yeah way upstate new york, almost canada, but i go to suny potsdam but i think im transferring end of this year to either albany, oswego, or a culinary institute.

In The Zone
Sep 30th, 2008, 05:34 AM
yeah way upstate new york, almost canada, but i go to suny potsdam but i think im transferring end of this year to either albany, oswego, or a culinary institute.

Oh, wow, one of my good friends goes to Oswego and my best friend is from Syracuse and is in Canada all the time. (Lives down on LI now).

Nice. I go to St. John's in Queens.

IceHock
Sep 30th, 2008, 05:44 AM
ahh good ole st johns, they used to have a pretty good college bball team, idk if they still do or what, do you go to their games at all?

In The Zone
Sep 30th, 2008, 06:26 AM
ahh good ole st johns, they used to have a pretty good college bball team, idk if they still do or what, do you go to their games at all?

Used to is right. :o I remember when they made the Elite 8 and almost beat Ohio St. :( But now they suck. Sometimes. They're not fun since we're not too good. :lol: The big games are played at the Garden and all the crappy teams are played at home.

Ellery
Sep 30th, 2008, 02:50 PM
:wavey: IceHock.

BigB08822
Sep 30th, 2008, 07:04 PM
I am totally out of the loop but I miss you guys!! I am trying to stop by here more and more.

drake3781
Sep 30th, 2008, 07:13 PM
:wavey:

In The Zone
Sep 30th, 2008, 07:44 PM
I am totally out of the loop but I miss you guys!! I am trying to stop by here more and more.

:hearts:

In The Zone
Oct 5th, 2008, 02:31 AM
Wonderfully written. A must read for all the Hillraisers.


Hillary Clinton: Grace after the fire

Posted by Susan J. Demas | Analysis | Capitol Chronicles October 03, 2008 07:24AM
Categories: Column

Hillary Clinton, GRAND LEDGE -- Hillary Clinton is so over it.

The primary ping-pong, that is - the bitter battles with Barack, her husband's crimson face and wagging finger, the endless wrangling over every state, every superdelegate.

It all seemed to wash away as a Zen-like Hillary took to the stage Saturday and bestowed her message on the mostly female crowd of 1,000: Move on and vote Obama.

Maybe it's the distance. Maybe it was Friday's debate and the harrowing financial meltdown that hasn't fazed the kid from Chi-town one bit, while the impeccably experienced John McCain swan-dived into a full-scale panic. But Clinton seemed genuinely impressed with Obama in a way she never was when they engaged in hand-to-hand combat.

"I'm campaigning as hard as I can to make sure he's the next president," she announced with almost maternal pride. "I think last night people saw why."

Decked in a canary suit as sunny as her demeanor, Clinton radiated a laid-back warmth to a clearly smitten crowd. (There wasn't a PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) miscreant in sight). Instead of having to make the sale for herself in a pressure-cooker primary, she could relax and merrily dispatch McCain while pumping up Obama.

Losing such a brutal, close contest was devastating, no doubt. Many pundits believed she'd hole herself up with astringent aides Lanny Davis and Howard Wolfson, resurfacing to give aid and comfort to the GOP with unhelpful comments about Obama. ("He did admire Kwame Kilpatrick immensely, I know that.")

But Hillary's grace and enthusiasm has surprised even this cynical columnist, admittedly not her biggest fan. I don't know that Obama would have been able to pull off what she has if the roles were reversed.

Often sour and steely in her own race, Clinton has transformed herself into the happy warrior. This was supposed to be John McCain's role, instead reduced to a scowling septuagenarian lecturing baby Barack that "he just doesn't understand" anything, when it's his running mate who can't name a single newspaper she reads, another Supreme Court case besides Roe v. Wade or any of his maverick reforms ("I'll try to find you some and I'll bring 'em to ya.")

Is it real? Who knows? No one can say what's truly going on in someone's head. Maybe Clinton is giving a Cannes-worthy performance and will be punching her ballot for McCain on Nov. 4 anyway. She no doubt is looking ahead to 2012, just in case, as is one Mitt Romney.

But publicly, she is all-in in '08 and apparently has told Bill to get with the program, prompting him to (finally) say nice things about Obama while barnstorming Florida this week.

No one could have predicted what an effective surrogate Hillary has become for her former rival. Indeed, she's Obama's best defender, an emissary to women, although they're flocking back on the Barack bandwagon in droves since Sarah Palin has proven to be a national embarrassment.

Clinton's sheer depth on policy issues and effortless intellect underscores Palin's indignant incuriosity and startling cerebral shallowness, which even a skeptic like me underestimated. The McCain campaign clearly chose style over substance, but to flagrantly do so with someone a heartbeat away from the presidency is political malpractice.

But even on the surface, Clinton's down-home "I feel your pain" routine plays better than Palin's faux populism, since she's not really concerned with building "Joe Sixpack" up, as she refers to her constituency, but on cattily tearin' the elitist haters down. I believe we refer to that as goin' for the lowest common denominator.

What the 2008 election will ultimately mean for women is anyone's guess. I tend to believe that Clinton coming so close will motivate more women to jump into public life and push harder for a female president next time. That's one reason why so many women were initially drawn to the McCain-Palin ticket, before they came down with buyer's remorse.

But the failure of Palin could have the opposite effect. Some women who remember the Gerry Ferraro days tell me that Sarah's set up to be the fall gal when McCain goes down. She's the airhead hottie who never could be trusted with the launch codes, scuttling the chances of an honorable war hero who could have restored this country's glory.

Chicks, huh?

Sexism is still apparent but the next woman who succeeds can think Hillary Clinton (and probably Sarah Palin, :p). Now, when we see a woman, we don't think of her as JUST as a woman. After seeing Hillary and then Sarah, we knew we had a good thing. :lol: Who knew Sarah could help Hillary? :)

In The Zone
Oct 5th, 2008, 02:34 AM
Supporting Hillary and her causes. I am sure we've all been getting the emails about her fellow lady Senate friends and hopeful lady Senate friends.


Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney use the power of PACs to stump

The also-rans continue to run, thanks to the magic of political action committees.

Hillary Clinton is traveling from San Francisco to Los Angeles today holding fundraisers on behalf of her party’s presidential nominee, Barack Obama. Mitt Romney was in Nevada last week and continues to travel the country often on behalf of his party’s nominee, John McCain.

No longer candidates, they're now surrogates. To pay their way, they're using money raised in $5,000 increments in their political action committees.

After spending $105 million, including $44.6 million of his own money, on a failed effort to capture the GOP presidential nomination, Romney created Free and Strong America, a political action committee to help McCain and other Republicans win on Nov. 4.

He has raised $1.56 million, spent $1.1 million and had $474,000 in the bank, according to the latest Federal Election Commission reports filed last month.

Clinton jump-started her HillPAC after she ended her presidential campaign in June. She raised $670,000 and spent $476,300 this summer, and ended August with $201,000 in the bank. Clinton spent $220 million on her losing campaign, not counting nearly $10 million in unpaid presidential campaign bills, plus $13.1 million she loaned her campaign.

Romney and Clinton each are relying on presidential campaign donors to pay for their latest undertakings. Romney is collecting $5,000 from friends from his investment days, as well as newer backers including cattle rancher and racehorse owner John Harris of Harris Ranch in Coalinga.

Clinton has received $5,000 from Hollywood figures including Cheryl Saban, Berry Gordy and Clarence Avant.

Also giving are wealthy San Franciscans including Susie Tomkins Buell, her husband Mark Buell and Walter Shorenstein, along with Brian Greenspun, a longtime Clinton friend who owns the Las Vegas Sun and is a board member of Tribune Co., which owns the Los Angeles Times.

In an interview today, Greenspun said he continues to give to Clinton because she is one of the most “able Americans and politicians in this country.” As such, he said, she does a better job than he could of deciding which candidates are worthy of support.

“I trust her and I trust her judgment, and if I could give her more money, I would,” he said.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/hillary-clinton.html

In The Zone
Oct 6th, 2008, 07:09 AM
Hey guys, I know this is a bit lengthy but it's just an interesting read. If you want, just scroll to the bottom and read the poll results. I love the friend question. :lol:


Women Voters Prefer Hillary Clinton to Sarah Palin in 2012 By a 2-to-1 Margin

National Poll Finds Broad Support for Hillary On Politics, 'Trust,' 'Role Model' and Other Values

Last update: 5:10 p.m. EDT Oct. 5, 2008
NEW YORK, Oct 05, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Hillary Clinton would beat Sarah Palin head-to-head by a 2-to-1 margin if the 2012 presidential election were held today, according to women voters.
A national telephone survey of 600 registered women voters was conducted by Blum & Weprin from September 25 through October 3, 2008. The poll, commissioned by SheZoom.com, a new women's internet media company, is titled 'Palin vs. Clinton - You Decide.' The survey (with a margin of error of +/- 4 percentage points) queried women in all 50 states on their personal and political preferences pertaining to the two female party leaders.
The poll asks questions relating to presidential responsibilities, as well as personality and "values" questions important to female voters. For all areas, the survey shows Clinton with broad-based support, including the "values" questions, such as "Whom do you trust?"; "Who's a better role model?"; and "Who's been a better mother?" On all these issues, Clinton wins by at least 10 points. [NB: The poll's results did not shift in any significant way following Thursday's vice presidential debate.]
The poll's other findings include:
-- The preference for Clinton is widest in handling the responsibilities of a President. Clinton is seen as doing a better job dealing with the economy by a 40 percent margin and as more effective in dealing with foreign leaders by 48 percent.
-- Clinton also holds a substantial edge in character and personal issues.
-- American women voters not only admire Hillary Clinton more, they also relate to her more than to Sarah Palin. While the margin is not as wide as in the presidential job responsibilities, women see Clinton's values as closer to their own and would rather have Hillary Clinton as a friend.
-- While Clinton comes out on top again in her role as a mother, this is an area where many women felt they could not or would not judge or compare these women.
-- A third of the women polled say their views of Clinton have become more positive. Only a tiny minority has a more negative view than a year ago. Fifty-six percent of women said their views are unchanged.
-- On the 2008 vote, registered women voters favor Obama/Biden over McCain/Palin by a significant margin (51 percent to 35 percent).
"In short, Hillary wins on all counts," said pollster Mickey Blum, of Blum & Weprin. "When analyzing the data, we looked to see if there were areas in which Palin came out on top. But, on virtually every level, Hillary takes it. I think this primary season, this entire campaign, humanized her. In a lot of ways, she took a beating and kept her grace. And Americans, especially American women, like fighters. This poll shows just how much women identify with Hillary. Obviously, that's what the McCain campaign was looking to tap into with Sarah Palin. This polls shows that it hasn't worked, at least not yet."
"This is an unprecedented time for women in politics, "said Stacey Artandi, founder and CEO of SheZoom.com. "This election season has put two unique women in the spotlight in Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton. On many measures, they couldn't be more different -- in their ideologies, their styles, and their experiences. Regardless of what happens in the November election, Senator Clinton and Governor Palin have changed the face of the political landscape for women. And they will remain forces in the future. American women's answers to our questions give a sense of how we perceive Palin and Clinton, how well we relate to them, and perhaps a hint of what's to come."
For more information and analysis please log onto www.shezoom.com.
About Blum & Weprin
Blum & Weprin Associates, Inc. is a non-partisan polling firm based in New York City and specializing in public opinion polls for the media. Media clients include NY1 News, The Daily News, The New York Times, Newsday, NBC News, and The Dallas Morning News.
Mickey Blum, President of Blum and Weprin, is a recognized polling and political analyst, appearing frequently on network, local and cable news and talk shows. Ms Blum is a past president of the New York branch of the American Association of Public Opinion Research.
About SheZoom.com
SheZoom.com is a video website that targets women with a diverse range of programming, seamlessly combining originally produced content with partner and user generated content. SheZoom is an upbeat and engaging community that encourages women to laugh, learn, share and connect. SheZoom partners with experts in fields such as weight loss, fashion, finance, food, parenting and technology in order to deliver positive, credible information that women can use in their daily lives. Founded by Stacey Artandi, SheZoom provides a forum for women everywhere to share common ground and to showcase their talents.
About Stacey Artandi Seldin, CEO of SheZoom
Stacey Artandi is an accomplished entrepreneur with extensive experience shaping and growing companies across the media spectrum, from start-ups to Fortune 500 companies. She has been in the Internet industry since 1996. Most recently she founded SheZoom, Inc. in 2007 and launched www.shezoom.com in March 2008 and www.momentofthanks.com in July. Prior to that she was the VP of Online Publishing for American Lawyer Media, ran marketing and business development for virtual world company www.there.com, created local portals for Disney's Go Network, and led development for newspaper industry-backed New Century Network. Before committing herself to the Internet, Artandi launched the Food Network as the company's first VP of Marketing and held management posts at Tribune Company and the New York Daily News.
-poll details continued below-


SheZoom.com's 'Palin vs. Clinton - You Decide' Poll
9/25-10/3/08
N= 600, Registered women voters (723 US Women), Margin of Error +/- 4%


1. If the 2008 Presidential Election were being held today, and the candidates were Barack Obama and Joe Biden, the Democrats and John McCain and Sarah Palin, the Republicans, for whom would you vote?
1. Obama/Biden 51%
2. McCain/Palin 35
3. Not vote 1
9. NS/Ref 14


2. Suppose the Democratic candidate were Hillary Clinton, instead of Barack Obama. Do you think Hillary Clinton would have a better chance as Barack Obama of defeating John McCain, not as good a chance as Barack Obama, or about the same chance as Barack Obama?
1. Better 32%
2. Worse 23
3. Same 34
9. NS/Ref 11

3. Now, thinking ahead to 2012. Suppose the candidates for President in
2012 were Hillary Clinton, the Democrat and Sarah Palin, the Republican, for
whom would you vote?
1. Hillary Clinton 61%
2. Sarah Palin 27
3. Not vote 2
9. NS/Ref 10


4. Compared to a year ago, are your views about Hillary Clinton now more positive, more negative or the same as they were a year ago?
1. More positive 33%
2. More negative 8
3. The same 56
9. Not sure/Refuse 4

5. Who do you think would do a better job dealing with the economy?
1. Hillary Clinton 64%
2. Sarah Palin 24
3. both equally (volunteered only) 1
4. neither (volunteered only) 1
9. NS/Ref 10

6. Who do you think would be more effective dealing with foreign leaders?
1. Hillary Clinton 69%
2. Sarah Palin 21
3. both equally (volunteered only) 1
4. neither (volunteered only) 2
9. NS/Ref 7

7. Who do you trust more?
1. Hillary Clinton 56%
2. Sarah Palin 29
3. both equally (volunteered only) 3
4. neither (volunteered only) 6
9. NS/Ref 7

8. Who do you think is a better role model for young women?
1. Hillary Clinton 53%
2. Sarah Palin 33
3. Not Sure/NA/Refuse 15

9. Whose values are most similar to yours?
1. Hillary Clinton 48%
2. Sarah Palin 35
3. both equally (volunteered only) 3
4. neither (volunteered only) 5
9. NS/Ref 9

10. Who would you rather have as a friend?
1. Hillary Clinton 48%
2. Sarah Palin 35
3. both equally (volunteered only) 4
4. neither (volunteered only) 7
9. NS/Ref 6

11. Who do you think has been a better mother?
1. Hillary Clinton 35%
2. Sarah Palin 24
3. both equally (volunteered only) 9
4. neither (volunteered only) 3
9. NS/Ref 28

12. Who do you think strikes a better work/life balance?
1. Hillary Clinton 44%
2. Sarah Palin 32
3. both equally (volunteered only) 7
4. neither (volunteered only) 3
9. NS/Ref 15



Methodology
This national telephone poll of 600 registered women voters, based on a random sample of 723 women in all 50 states, was conducted for SheZoom by Blum & Weprin Associates, Inc. from September 25-October 3, 2008.
The sample was based on an RDD design which draws numbers from all existing telephone exchanges in all fifty states, giving all phone numbers, listed and unlisted, a proportionate chance of being included. Respondents were selected randomly among women living in the household and then screened for registration. The overall sample results were weighted demographically and geographically to population data. The estimated average sample tolerance for data from the survey is +/- 4% at the 95% confidence level. That is, the chances are about 19 out of 20 that if all households with telephones were surveyed with the same questionnaire, the results of the complete census would not be found to deviate from the poll findings by more than 4 points. Sampling error for subgroups is higher. Sampling is only one source of error. Other sources of error may include question wording, question order and interviewer effects.
SOURCE SheZoom

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/women-voters-prefer-hillary-clinton/story.aspx?guid=%7B202417EF-4CBF-4FF5-895B-BFC98CF6D3FA%7D&dist=hppr

In The Zone
Oct 6th, 2008, 07:13 AM
Hillary leading the charge for the filibuster proof Senate, plus almost 25 winnable house seats.


Clinton goes to bat for Obama and party

By Fredreka Schouten, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton has raised more than $8 million for former rival Barack Obama's presidential campaign since July and plans to barnstorm the country for even more cash, as the New York senator works to show she is aggressively helping the candidate who cut short her White House bid.
"I am using every tool that I have to help Democrats win," Clinton told USA TODAY. She was between fundraising events in Texas and California that brought in another $1.5 million for Obama and congressional candidates on Friday and Saturday.

Later this month, Clinton will headline Obama fundraisers in Chicago, Philadelphia and Little Rock along with 11 events to raise money for Democratic congressional candidates and state parties.

She is stepping up efforts to get more Democratic women elected to the Senate. On Friday, she issued an e-mail fundraising appeal for Louisiana incumbent Mary Landrieu and challengers Kay Hagan, who is locked in a tight battle against Republican Sen. Elizabeth Dole in North Carolina, and former New Hampshire governor Jeanne Shaheen, who is engaged in a repeat of her close 2002 race with GOP Sen. John Sununu.

The former first lady said in the interview late Friday that her goal is straightforward: "We have a lot to repair in America, and I believe that Democratic leadership is essential to fixing the damage that we are going to inherit."

Clinton, who came closer to claiming a major party's presidential nomination than any woman before her, declined to discuss whether another White House race was in her future.

"I'm looking forward to going to the White House someday and standing there when President Obama signs a bill guaranteeing quality, affordable health care for every American," she said, citing an issue that was a signature of her campaign.

Democratic strategist Tad Devine said Clinton's stature will grow in the Senate no matter the outcome on Election Day because she garnered about 18 million votes in her presidential bid.

Clinton stands to become "the most important woman in American politics" if Democrats win on Nov. 4, he said.

Helping to raise the money to aid Obama and increase Democratic majorities in Congress only enhances that standing, Devine added, because "delivering resources to campaigns is probably the single-most important and difficult thing you can do in politics."

Clinton has hit 40 campaign events for Obama in battleground states from New Hampshire to Nevada in the past two months.

Her husband campaigned in Florida last week. "Both Bill and I are doing all we can to reach the people who are not already convinced," Clinton said.

The Clintons' efforts come amid lingering signs of unrest among her still-loyal supporters. One top Clinton fundraiser, investment executive Lynn Forester de Rothschild, announced last month she was supporting Republican nominee John McCain. She called Obama and other top Democrats in Congress "too far to the left."

Clinton rejected the idea of further defections from her camp. "The vast majority of people who voted for me will vote for Sen. Obama," she said. "They understand that … we desperately need a Democratic administration to take the reins of the economy and turn it around."

Alexander Heckler, a Fort Lauderdale lawyer who raised more than $100,000 for Clinton, said talk of dissension between the Clinton and Obama fundraising camps is overrated.

He said he contributed $2,300 to Obama at a Sept. 19 fundraiser in Miami and has committed to raising at least $250,000 for the Illinois senator at Clinton's urging.

"We are all very united," he said.

Clinton still owed about $9 million to her campaign vendors at the end of August, despite Obama's appeal to his top fundraisers to help retire the debt. She vowed to work to repay the vendors, but insisted her priority is her party.

"With a month to go until Election Day," she said, "our energies have to be focused on persuading people to support Democrats."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-05-Clinton_N.htm

In The Zone
Oct 6th, 2008, 07:16 AM
Clinton to Supporters: Tell Voters ‘Hillary Sent Me’

Susan Davis reports on the presidential race.

Hillary Clinton is ramping up her efforts to help elect her primary rival Barack Obama with a new outreach effort called “Hillary Sent Me,” the Associated Press reported today.

Clinton is asking her supporters not only to open their wallets for Obama, but to also travel to battleground states on specific weekends to help Obama’s ground game. The program begins Sept. 27 in New Hampshire. That weekend Clinton will be stumping for Obama in Michigan. The New York senator has already raised $5 million for Obama, AP reported.

“Today I am asking all of you to stand up with me, to hit the road and spread the word that we must elect Barack Obama president and send a Democratic, filibuster-proof majority to Congress,” Clinton told supporters in a Friday conference call. “This is a call to action, a must-do. We all have a role. And there is not a moment to lose.”

Clinton will also transform her political Web site, www.HillPac.com into a forum for backers to find key Democratic campaign events. She said the new effort “continues the historic journey that you have made with me.” Clinton received about 18 million votes in the primary process, she also won the primaries in battleground states including New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Ohio.

There has been reluctance among some Clinton supporters to rally behind Obama. This week alone, two former backers, fund-raiser Lynn Forester de Rothschild and prominent Latino supporter Miguel D. Lausell, endorsed rival John McCain.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/19/clinton-to-supporters-tell-voters-hillary-sent-me/

In The Zone
Oct 6th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Gotta' feel for Barbara. (The last bolded quote) Many of us are in the same boat as her.


In Los Angeles, Hillary Clinton urges faithful to back Barack Obama

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-10/42735230.jpg

Hillary Rodham Clinton met Friday with some of her most devoted supporters in Los Angeles to urge them to back former rival Barack Obama's presidential campaign.

About 60 loyalists crowded into a Mexican restaurant on Olvera Street to see the New York senator, who beat Obama in California's Democratic primary in February. She also asked them to campaign for Democrats who are running for Congress.


"I mostly wanted to come to say thank you and to encourage you to do everything you can between now and election day to register voters, to make sure everybody knows what's at stake in this election and then to help turn everybody out," Clinton told the crowd. "I just have a feeling this is going to be a great Democratic year."

Clinton spoke for less than 10 minutes, but that didn't seem to bother the audience.

"Whatever she says, that's exactly what we'll do," said Lillian Gonzales, 76, of the Mark Twain Democratic Club in Whittier.


Between bites of taquitos and guacamole, Gonzales explained that she had switched her allegiance to Obama as soon as Clinton conceded the race in June. Now, she said, her task is to persuade her friends who are leery of Obama to do the same.

In a brief news conference after her speech, Clinton brushed off questions about whether some supporters, still bitter from her loss to Obama, might vote for the Republican nominee, Arizona Sen. John McCain.

"I think that people who supported me have much more in common with Sen. Obama and his agenda than with Sen. McCain," she said.

She predicted that the nation's rocky economy would help Obama's chances in November.

"As the real stakes of the election become clearer, you're going to see Obama gain across the country," Clinton said. "As more and more people look at what is being offered, I'm just really confident that we're going to win."

Clinton will speak tonight at an "Angelenos Go Green for Obama" fundraiser in downtown Los Angeles at the Edison, a power-plant-turned-swanky-lounge.

Organizers say the event, powered by biodiesel generators and featuring compostable plates and flatware, will be the first zero-waste and carbon-neutral political fundraiser.

Actors William Baldwin, Catherine Keener and Meg Ryan will attend, and Jon Bon Jovi will entertain.

Clinton won about 18 million votes in the hard-fought Democratic primaries. In the months since she dropped out, she has actively campaigned for Obama.

In her speech Friday, she talked up her latest initiative, which aims to convert her supporters into a pro-Obama network called Hillary Sent Me!

The program, organized by Clinton's political action committee, HillPac, in conjunction with the Obama campaign, mobilizes volunteers to travel to battleground states to help Democrats with their grass-roots organizing.

This weekend, it urged volunteers to travel to Ohio -- a key swing state -- to canvass for Obama.

The weekend after that, it will push volunteers to work in Pennsylvania.

Many Clintonites at Friday's event said they were busy organizing for Obama. Barbara Douglass, 86, the president of the Democratic Women's Study Club in Long Beach, said her organization was making phone calls for Obama.

She said it wasn't always easy supporting Clinton's former rival, but she was doing it because it's what Clinton wants. "I was brokenhearted when she lost," Douglass said. "I'm going to vote for Obama, but not with the same thrill."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clinton4-2008oct04,0,6912416.story

drake3781
Oct 6th, 2008, 07:29 AM
Hi... just checking in real quick... should've been in bed hours ago... have to work in 4 hours! :scared:

I watched The Squid and the Whale tonight. Has some tennis in it.

Hope y'all had a good weekend... now have to get some sleep. :wavey:

Ciarán
Oct 6th, 2008, 03:50 PM
poo

Paneru
Oct 9th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Hillary Clinton Gets Her Own Comic Book

http://i.newsarama.com/images/v-Hillarycomic-01.jpg

By Matt Brady

Thanks to IDW, Barack Obama and John McCain have them – and now Hillary Clinton is getting her own comic book biography, from Bluewater Productions. The comic is due for release in January, in time for the Inauguration Day of either the man she was running against for the job, or John McCain.

“We’re excited to bring this book to the table,” says Bluewater’s Vice Preseident Jason Schultz in a company release. “There are a couple comics focusing on John McCain and Barack Obama, we wanted to feature Hillary who broke all the rules in this election and made history”

The comic, as seen at right, shares many of the same cover design elements as those of IDW’s upcoming Obama and McCain comics, but as Publisher Darren G. Davis put it, the idea behind the book is to draw the spotlight back to Clinton and her history-making run for the White House.

“Our goal is to show the historical impact that maybe underrated from by those who are too facetted [sic] on the candidates to fully understand the historical impact of being a few votes show for the 1st female president,” Davis says. “Many people are daunted by the endless stream of articles on the candidates. A visual medium provides perspective that is not only accessible but more relatable to the average person without loosing [sic] any of the information involved”.

Entitled Female Force: Hillary Clinton, the comic will tell the story of Clinton’s life from both sides: from those who saw her run as a positive contribution to the “new feminist ethos,” as well as from the point of view that were against her run for President.

“I am writing Hillary Clinton from a perceptive of someone who did not admire her at 1st and throughout the process of research has come to admire and be utterly fascinated by what is obviously the most underrated historical figure in modern History." says writer Neal Bailey.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090824-HillaryComic.html

:cool:

LeonHart
Oct 10th, 2008, 11:52 PM
LoL...Hillary is a superhero now...awesome.

By the way I heard Hillary doesn't want to be in Obama's cabinet now. I guess it's best she stay away from him anyways :tape:

Haute
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:13 AM
I am very jealous of my office manager right now. She was going to see Bill tonight. :hearts: :hearts:

Hill & Bill in '12. :angel:

In The Zone
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:15 AM
LoL...Hillary is a superhero now...awesome.

By the way I heard Hillary doesn't want to be in Obama's cabinet now. I guess it's best she stay away from him anyways :tape:

There is nothing she can do to her benefit there. Not a surprise.

She can get the most work done close to her heart in the Senate. She should replace Reid. Like stat.

In The Zone
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:15 AM
I am very jealous of my office manager right now. She was going to see Bill tonight. :hearts: :hearts:

Hill & Bill in '12. :angel:

From the looks of things, 2016. :( Or the Senate again in 2012. :)

Haute
Oct 11th, 2008, 12:17 AM
What do you mean 2016? What have I missed? :confused: Or is this another instance of "Oh, I'm going to say I'm not running, but I fully intend to anyway."

Paneru
Oct 12th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Clintons File RICO Suit Against Obama - ACORN Stole the Nomination Too!

See 3rd para from bottom. The plot thickens. You can't write fiction better than this. This is why the Clintons have been INVISIBLE.


BREAKING: Word in Chicago: Patrick Fitzgerald heading RICO investigation of ACORN and BHO campaign

Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:40:53 AM by Anti-Hillary

Tonight we talked to someone who works in the federal courts here in Chicago.

The buzz in those corridors is that federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has been leading a team of FBI investigators in 10 states working on a RICO case.

Today, it was announced that ACORN is being investigated in 10 states.

That’s one heck of a coincidence.

We asked why Fitzgerald would be involved in this, because he’s the prosecutor on the Tony Rezko case and we aren’t aware of ACORN being investigated in Illinois.

We were told that ACORN was investigated in Illinois years ago, and it was a Fitzgerald case then. This means ACORN’s activities today, involving a conspiracy to commit multi-state voter fraud on SoetorObama’s behalf, are an extension of that previous ACORN case.

Our source in federal courts said, “Any crime that involves more than two people and is carried out across state lines qualifies as a corrupt organization. The fact that those “Goodwill” donations were made in Texas and received at Obama headquarters in Chicago or Washington means it qualifies for RICO.”

The “Goodwill donations” referred to above are the $228 million in undocumented, unverified campaign contributions the Obama camp has received — which the McCain campaigned filed a complaint to the FEC on this past Monday.

We’ve also heard that the Clinton campaign filed complaints to the FBI and other federal agencies over Obama’s fraud in the Iowa, Texas and other caucuses: voter intimidation, registration fraud, and other illegal activities.

The last thing we were told tonight in regards to all of this was that “the memo here is a tying together of all these various threads. That’s what you will see in the last weeks of the campaign: all things being tied together”.

If everything rumored here is true, it looks like David Axelrod, Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, Obama himself, and possibly even Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid were all involved, together, in massive RICO violations, and thus federal fraud, if the DNC and party leadership knew what the Obama campaign and ACORN were up to and allowed it to proceed. Knowledge of federal crimes being committed makes all parties accessories to those crimes — and part of the conspiracy to defraud the public.

http://community.marketwatch.com/groups/us-politics/topics/clintons-file-rico-suit-against


Now, their title is misleading because Hillary's Campaign filed
suit months ago! And now it makes things even more intriguing given the fact that both ACORN and Obama's connection to them are coming under increased scrutiny.

Some were asking though, why would Hillary campaign for Obama given what they claimed and filed against him. My guess is it's a multi-folded answer. From keeping her primary word to support the nominee(had she not and cited this reasoning, the msm and DNC would've vilified her beyond what they already have) to her keeping her word while hoping with more time the truth would come and the DNC could not rag on her because she has played nice with them and Obama since.

Some supporters were entertaining the notion that the reason Hillary seemed to get over it all so quickly and back Obama was because she knew their was stuff out there that may possibly if not certainly come to light and possibly remove him.

Just when things seem done, it gets more interesting.

Paneru
Oct 12th, 2008, 05:37 PM
Clinton supporters sharing evidence for RICO case against Obama campaign
Posted by hillbuzz

If you haven’t been a regular here at HillBuzz, you might not know about Gigi Gaston’s documentary “We Will Not Be Silenced” on the caucus fraud deliberately orchestrated by the Obama campaign during the primaries. Voter intimidation, registration fraud, vandalism, threats of violence, you name it, Obama’s supporters did it. For veterans of the McGovern ‘72 campaign who remembered thugs and hooligans engaged in similar tactics in service of their own far left candidate, the actions of Obama’s followers were so bad that even people who’ve lived through the last 36 years of ups and downs in America testified that this is the worst thing they’ve ever seen happen to our democracy.

Gaston’s documentary continues to gather testimonials from people across the country — and we have word now that the people behind these efforts to document what Obama did during the primaries are also cooperating with law enforcement in an investigation into the Obama campaign’s efforts to undermine the true will of the people in the general election.

Republicans and centrist Democrats are joined together on this effort to get the truth out about Obama before the November election. We firmly believe in McCain’s victory and do not believe it hinges on any developments with RICO. The polls, in our opinon, are wrong, and the internal numbers we see coming out of NC, VA, PA, OH, IN and FL show McCain wins in all of those states (there is no mathematical possibility for Obama to win without taking PA, OH, or FL). We believe after McCain’s win there will be a continued prosecution of Obama and members of the Democratic party for voter fraud under RICO statutes in the months and years ahead. ACORN and leftist Democrats have gone too far this time — for years ACORN has engineered deliberate election fraud using taxpayer dollars funneled to it by Democrats. This time, with both Democrats and Republicans joined against them, ACORN Is going down…and we believe it will ultimately take Obama, Axelrod, and most of today’s Democratic leadership down with it.

What we have talked about here on HillBuzz, and what other stories like the one posted below have also noted, is just the tip of the iceberg. We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors: only what we observe in the news and what people more closely involved relate to us.

People leave comments here saying, “What’s the update? What’s the update? What’s the update?”. Well, there won’t be an update on this every day. We luck out and are told things, and we happily share them as soon as they make sense to us. Sometimes things fall in our lap, like noticing the story at the bottom of this post — which gives us the idea to make a few calls of our own — and that confirms things we’ve suspected, but can then write about fully.

There IS a RICO investigation of ACORN and the Obama campaign underway - this has now been established by the mainstream media. Right now it’s rumored here in Chicago that Patrick Fitzgerald is heading it (confirmation on that has not come yet). There is a lot of activity in Chicago right now, with a lot of IRS agents looking into the finances coming in and out of this city, and across state lines (this was established on Monday when the GOP issued emergency press releases that much of Obama’s campaign contributions could very well be illegal foreign contributions - what appears to be deliberately poor record keeping designed to hide the true identities and monetary sources of online donors is at issue here). We see in 15 states now that ACORN is being busted for attempted voter fraud, and for fraudulent, illegal voter registratons in the hundreds of thousands, if not a million. The article below states, and we have confirmed this with people who know for sure, that the people who gathered evidence of Obama’s fraud and voter intimidation techniques during the primaries against Hillary Clinton are sharing everything they have with the Republican Party and the federal government.

What’s happening here is something we have never seen before: centrist Clinton Democrats and Republicans are working together to expose the DNC and Obama campaign’s illegal activities and orchestrated, coordinated fraud. Both parties are working with federal agents to investigate ACORN, which has been funded with upwards of $800,000 in questionable donations from the Obama campaign (in what appears to be the expressed and explicit direction to engineer voter fraud in the general election). The tactics being employed now in the 15 states currently under investigation are the VERY SAME TACTICS we saw on the ground in Iowa, Texas, Colorado, Nebraska, Indiana, and other states working for Hillary Clinton in the primaries.

And all of this ties back to Chicago.

Where the Obama campaign and DNC are now based.

Where people we know tip us off to little things to pay attention to that, when pieced together with all the other little pieces that are revealing themselves, leads to a single conclusion: there will be indictments for all of this.

We don’t know when they will come — but they will come. There is just too much here to ignore.

“Why didn’t the federal government get involved in the primaries?”, some people ask in comments. Well, we aren’t lawyers, but someone told us yesterday that the primaries are party affairs and are not governed by federal election laws. We’re sure a legal scholar will comment on this and set us straight. The parties set the rules for their primaries…but the general election IS governed by federal election law. This is why Florida and Michigan were allowed to be such a mess for Democrats, and why Donna Brazile and Howard Dean got away with taking delegates away from Hillary Clinton and giving them, unearned, to Obama for Michigan: no federal agency had any ability to step in and ensure a fair resolution of the Michigan and Florida votes. This was 100% in the hands of the Democratic party, which intended to award Obama its nomination since 2004. The party never intended to allow Hillary Clinton to win this thing — they always wanted Obama, and the party thus turned a deaf ear to our constant and repeated complaints of voter fraud, intimidation, and other thuggery by the Obama campaign from January through June.

That means, technically, nothing Obama did during the primaries was illegal…if our understanding of election law is true and political party primaries are not safeguarded under federal law. Tthe things his campaign is orchestrating now, however, ARE violations of the law.

Thus, all the evidence Clinton supporters and Republicans have gathered of fraud and voter intimidation during the primaries establishes the pattern of behavior that’s allowing RICO investigators to clearly discern a national conspiracy, rooted in Chicago, to hijack this election and defraud the will of the people. It’s all background information, with the RICO case seemingly evolving from the 15 separate investigations now underway in all states busting ACORN offices.

The Obama campaign, meanwhile, is in damage control mode, trying to amend FEC filings to erase ACORN from all of its paperwork — including claiming the $800,000 the Obama campaign paid ACORN for voter fraud (including registering the dead and enlisting homeless people and college kids to illegally multi-vote in multiple states or multiple intrastate polling places) was actually awarded to an unrelated, though wholly owned, subsidiary of ACORN.

The media, which risked all its credibility betting on an Obama win, will not report any of this because when Obama falls, he will take America’s faith in journalism with him. Democrats, especially, will never trust the media again, since they will come to realize they lost a sure shot at taking back the White House with Hillary Clinton, because the media wanted to run an Obama campaign, and Howard Dean and Donna Brazile were all too pleased to oblige. Republicans never trusted the media to begin with — so chalk that up, surprisingly, to yet another thing centrist Democrats now agree with Republicans on.

All of this is still developing and we do not know how many more breaks in this story will come before November 4th. We do detect a purposeful breaking of something new in this story every few days. Monday was the reports of illegal contributions to the Obama campaign from overseas that tied into the $800,000 given to ACORN by Obama. On Wednesday, all Hell broke lose in 15 states with ACORN offices left and right busted for massive voter fraud operations. We don’t know about other cities, but lawyers here in Chicago are talking about something BIG going down. On in-trade, someone short-sold Obama and bought $140,000 in shares for a McCain win on November 4th, dropping Obama’s intrade price from roughly $75/share to $64/share or so.

When a storm is coming, some know, some don’t. The ones that know do odd things that make sense only in retrospect. Right now, we are noticing a lot of odd things and are piecing this together as best we can to see patterns emerging.

Whenever a storm brews for Obama, the media ratchets up its cheerleading, and those in the tank for him do whatever they can to protect him. That’s why we’ve also noticed the polling companies changing their party ID samples in the last two or three weeks, upping Democrats’ party ID to 50% in some polls, and dropping Republicans down to just 20%, with 30% Independent. If you look at this critically, you’d see that Democrats have never enjoyed more than a 4% historical party ID advantage. In 2006, a year that Democrats RAGED against both Bush and the sex-scandal plagued GOP (Mark Foley, Larry Craig, and other characters), Democrats had just a 3% party ID advantage. All of this means polls should be using samples with 39% Democrats, 35% Republican, and 26% Independent.

The polling samples are manipulated to give Obama higher poll numbers than he really in fact has, as reflective of support in the electorate. Some people believe this is all being done as cover for the voter fraud — so that Obama polls higher than he should in states where ACORN’s activities are meant to pump illegal votes in to push him much higher than he would be in an actual, legitimate election. The polls, in essence, are thus showing that ACORN is expected to deliver that 11% party ID advantage to Democrats, by bringing the dead, ineligible felons, and homeless multi-voters to the voting booths. The polls thus seem rigged to produce the results Obama wants…and ACORN is the muscle to make sure results are delivered to match the established polls.

That’s one theory.

Another is that the polling companies and networks are working independent of the Obama campaign, but that the networks, which fund the polls, demand good Obama poll numbers because those drive ratings. MSNBC, in particular, will most likely go under when Obama loses — they are so in the tank for his campaign, and are behind so much of the mischief of the past year, that when Obama loses we are certain Jeff Zucker, Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, and others will lose their jobs, with the network collapsing a year or two later. MSNBC is already in last place. Republicans and centrist Democrats won’t touch it. The only people left watching it are Obama supporters (or sadomasochistic Eeyores who enjoy watching propaganda engineered specifically to depress them,and in turn cause them to depress everyone around them with “We’re all doomed! Obama is unstoppable! The TV told me this and now I need be constantly reassured otherwise so I will drain the energy from all those around me!” woe). Obama supporters disappear when MSNBC is not providing enough cheerleading for him. And Obama supporters are all MSNBC has left.

So, in our opinion, the media and the polls are linked, since both depend on Obama followers remaining loyal viewers, never becoming disillusioned in his campaign. His support in polls is thus inflated for network business reasons, with Potemkin Vilage idiots like Matthews and Olbermann reading from Jeff Zucker’s predictably pro-Obama script. Manupulation and propaganda like this happen all the time.

We can’t think of a more classic modern example of this than “Baghdad Bob” during the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, when American tanks rolled into the city, right behind Bob, on camera, who would assure journalists that Saddam Hussein was winning and that Americans would never conquer the country. Americans were nowhere to be seen! Except right behind you, in that column of tanks that just almost ran you over, Bob.

Every time we hear pro-Obama cheerleading that he’s winning Virginia and North Carolina and Ohio and Pennsylvania, we hear the rumble of those tanks in Baghdad again…and know what’s going to happpen on November 4th. McCain will win all the states the media claims Obama’s leading in…the very same way Hillary Clinton won California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Ohio, Texas, Indiana, South Dakota, and Pennsylvania: all states the media insisted Clinton would lose.

We have seen this movie before.

We know how all of this ends.

The only thing we’re left guessing at is what the finished product of “We Will Not Be Silenced” will look like. Gigi Gaston is working incredibly hard on what we believe will be one of the most important films released next year. It will NOT be completed before the election. No one ever planned to make a movie about democracy-threatening fraud this year, so understand this film is being made as quickly as possible.

But, read the article below for more on this…and remember, before you ask repeatedly “What’s the update? What’s the update? What’s the update?” that we’re not the only ones who can play detective. Ask questions yourself. Get on the phone and call the governors in your state and ask them what’s being done about voter fraud, what’s being done to stop Obama from subverting the will of the people in this election. If you find out anything, head over to www.HillaryClintonForum.net and post it so the 5,000 campaign veterans there can read it and get the information out to others.

Instead of constantly asking “What’s the update?” or demanding people hold your hand, get off your butt and help get to the bottom of all this. If you are so damn curious, then start calling your local news stations and demanding to know what they are doing about investigating all of this rampant fraud engineered to help Obama. Call NBC and keep calling into you get through to Jeff Zucker. Call every sponsor you see advertising on NBC and MSNBC and tell them you will stop using their products because they support the Obama propaganda machine. That’s sure as Hell more helpful than asking “What’s the update?” ad nauseum.

If Obama can win this thing fair and square in an honest election, then so be it — we don’t believe he honestly can. Those of us who have been on the ground for Hillary Clinton the last 2 years haven’t seen much honesty come out of the Obama Nation.

Have sure seen a lot of fraud, though.

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/clinton-supporters-sharing-evidence-for-rico-case-against-obama-campaign/

Paneru
Oct 12th, 2008, 05:48 PM
"When Hillary Met Sally" (Riverdaughter)-The "Anger" of Voters and Why it's About Misogyny, Obama and the MSM


We have never understood the irrational hatred of the press towards Hillary Clinton. We know why the Republicans couldn’t stand her husband, Bill. It was because he was actually the one in charge during the nineties and they never accepted him as legitimate. Besides they were on a roll with Movement Conservatism. Yeah, all that hard work was paying off, once they made up their minds to fight their exile into the wilderness after Barry Goldwater’s defeat. That never explained viciousness of the media towards Hillary though.

As far as we have been able to trace, the nastiness started in earnest just after the Clintons arrived in Washington and Sally Quinn attempted to pull Hillary into her social circle. But it seems like Sally was playing quite a different career game than Hillary. I imagine it was a little like what happened on Mad Men between Peggy, the newly promoted junior copywriter from the steno pool, and Joan, the office manager who saw her job as a route to domestic bliss in the suburbs with a man she snagged from one of the corner offices:

And then Hillary proceeded to dismiss the White House travel office staff who was collaborating with the media for sweet travel deals and gossip. We think that was approximately the time the $%@# hit the fan. Oh, sure, the Republicans gave both Clintons a colonoscopy with 8 years of investigations. It was relentless and brutal- and categorized in minute and embarrasing detail on the pages of the Washington Post and the New York Times. Seven years of the worst president in history, a president the media helped to put in power, was not enough to curb the media’s enthusiasm for trashing Hillary. When the primary season started, they picked up right where they left off. Hillary was the media’s favorite punching bag. She almost won too. It drove them NUTS.

We’ve known for more than a year now that the media has a sycophantic hard-on for Obama. So, it came as a shock yesterday when Paul Krugman, who is generally well liked in PUMA circles, wrote the following in his blog, The Conscience of a Liberal:

The crisis isn’t the only scary thing going on. Something very ugly is taking shape on the political scene: as McCain’s chances fade, the crowds at his rallies are, by all accounts, increasingly gripped by insane rage. It’s not just a mob phenomenon — it’s visible in the right-wing media, and to some extent in the speeches of McCain and Palin.

We’ve seen this before. One thing that has been sort of written out of the mainstream history of politics is the sheer insanity of the attacks on the Clintons — they were drug smugglers, they murdered Vince Foster (and lots of other people), they were in league with foreign powers. And this stuff didn’t just show up in fringe publications — it was discussed in Congress, given props by the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, and so on.

What it came down to was that a significant fraction of the American population, backed by a lot of money and political influence, simply does not consider government by liberals (even very moderate liberals) legitimate. Ronald Reagan was supposed to have settled that once and for all.

The good thing is that Krugman acknowledges the irrationality of the attacks on the Clintons. What he *doesn’t* acknowledge is that much of it comes from his neighbors at the NY Times, not the Wall Street Journal. Did Krugman read any of the stuff from Frank Rich during the primaries? And does anyone know what bug Maureen Dowd has up her ass about Hillary? (BTW, Maureen, we still aren’t voting for him and we don’t really care what you think.)

We’ve often heard it said that Hillary’s campaign was nasty towards reporters. But I used to sit in on those conference calls between the media and Howard Wolfson. I often came away impressed with Wolfson’s comparative composure. The venom that flowed from the likes of Andrea Mitchell was astonishing in its sarcasm and sheer unmistakable contempt for anything Hillary said or did or planned. After 15 years of this stuff, I wouldn’t have liked the media much either.

Paul has been hanging out with his buds at the NYTimes too long. He has started to believe what ever new fantasy they are promoting these days. This new meme about voters longing for Ronald Reagan is pretty stupid. I don’t doubt that some of McCain’s fans are waxing nostalgic for the Great Communicator but I suspect the real source of their discontent is similar to ours on the left who can’t stand Obama. It’s like we didn’t have any choice in the matter. The media did the picking of our nominee this year. The voters were superfluous. We on the Democratic side were steamrolled if we wanted Hillary Clinton. We’ve been told that neither our opposition or our votes are legitimate. Both the DNC and the media had a hand in stripping us of our ability to affect the election. But our resistance to Obama is not about Hillary anymore. It’s about preserving our right to self determination.

Now, Republican voters are getting a taste of that same media fueled Obama juggernaut. Those of us on the left who experienced the “Hillary can’t win, it’s mathematically impossible” haka that began in February recognize the “It’s over. Obama won!” haka of October. But Republican voters have yet to connect this meme with the intense psychological warfare that David Axelrod is throwing at them with the media’s help. And Krugman is completely wrong when he connects the agitiation of the anti-Obama voters with Reagan. I survived the Reagan years as a college student. There is nothing about Reagan that I liked, admired or wish to have again. I loathed the guy. In fact, I really wish both McCain and Palin would drop the lavish praise of Reagan. Whenever he is mentioned, I lose whatever tepid warmth I have for the Republican ticket.

Today we see a new media frenzy over Sarah Palin’s Troopergate problem. I guess I’ve been watching the Hillary vs Sally problem long enough to know that it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans and no one but the media and the cognitively dissonant in the Obamasphere will care. So, she tried to get her brother in law fired after he did some things that would get most people fired. So she went about it the wrong way. The way the media is behaving, you’d think the only reason she ran for governor was so she could use the full force of her office to torment and harrass this one man. It reminds me of the massive amount of ink that was wasted on Hillary’s missing billing records and the federal case that was made out of that. Or the unintentional exaggeration she made of one of her Bosnia trips. Or her firing of the White House travel office. Who frickin’ cares?

They all pale in comparison to Obama’s campaign staff intimidating and threatening delegates at the convention and invalidating the primary election results in 57 states. It can’t hold a candle to the manipulation of the primary results by the DNC on Obama’s behalf that he accepted without protest. It doesn’t come close to the fraud, verbal and physical bullying that happened during the caucuses. It’s not nearly as enraging to voters as the Obama surrogates who accuse us of racism while they undermine us with sexism. The media barely covered any of this so we’ve had to document the atrocities on our own. Obama may be their darling, but he isn’t ours.

What I can’t understand is how it is that Krugman, the Princeton economics professor with the massive brain that crunches data without effort, can’t understand what’s really going on with voters at McCain rallies who resent the media’s interference with their ability to make a decision and have it count.

Go figure.

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/saturday-when-hillary-met-sally/#comment-177579

Yep, this went beyond Hillary when it became obvious that anyone, not just her, opposing Obama was going to get treated like this! We saw the sheer and unadulterated vile hatred Sarah Palin got from the day her name was announced!

The republicans are seeing what we've been saying for months! They loved it in one way because many of them as time went on saw that Hillary was the more qualified candidate and Obama had so many lies and skeletons, ect.... and now the difficulty which they hate in the form of the truth to get out with such a msm that is so blatantly and unapologetically biased and doing almost anything to cast Obama as some sort of "savior" which he is far from!

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 05:50 PM
What do you mean 2016? What have I missed? :confused: Or is this another instance of "Oh, I'm going to say I'm not running, but I fully intend to anyway."

ITZ is a bit depressed by the bias msm seemingly declaring already Obama the winner or what looks like it may be.

I told him to not take on about it, the polls and the msm
are not to be trusted now. The bias is so much so that it makes
so much look skeptical.

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Hillary and Bill over the weekend celebrated their
33rd Wedding Anniversary. :cool:

Bill gave her a tourquoise necklace.
Hillary gave him more football watching time. :lol:

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:06 PM
Hillary Clinton Supporters Say:

Obama Is a Liar and Corrupt - They Will Vote for McCain


LID9BK07Ro8

Two Puma's speaking to the lies and corruption surrounding Obama and his supporters. Along with the use of voter intimidation and name calling based on race.

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:09 PM
For Hillary Both Sides Now
tVambwLSCSc

Very touching tribute. :hug:

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:13 PM
A comment from a Clinton Supporter who watched the
Clinton/Biden rally in Scranton, Pa.:

Well I was watching the Clinton/Biden rally. And my Mom asked if Biden knew that HRC wasn't still running. He was making it out to seem like HRC was the one he wanted to be the next Potus (don't we all). He praised her up and down and I kept thinking... Hey Joe you're supposed to be talking about BO. LOL

:cool:

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:22 PM
I think with PA very much in play, Hillary is being sent with Bill around Pa. because Hillary trumped Obama in PA. And despite Biden being from Pa as well,
the enthusiasm for Hillary cannot be matches by Obama or Biden!

Plus, Pa voters especially in many small town's still have not
forgotten Obama's "bitter" comments that were said behind closed doors.

While i cannot stand her stumping for Obama, atleast it is bearble to
watch her speak as she is not gushing over him!

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Here are some great photos some Hillary supporters posted from the event!

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q448/hrcuploads/HillaryClintonBillClinton.jpg

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q448/hrcuploads/HillaryClintonandBillClinton.jpg

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q448/hrcuploads/HillaryClintonandBillClinton2.jpg

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:26 PM
I love her big hardy laugh! :lol:

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Another great pic from another event:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0f6s9eS3Du6Pi/358x283.jpg?center=0,0

Paneru
Oct 13th, 2008, 06:28 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Aie1T4eb384/610x.jpg

In The Zone
Oct 13th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Thanks Paneru for all the news. :hearts:

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Thanks Paneru for all the news. :hearts:

:yeah:

Paneru
Oct 14th, 2008, 12:14 PM
Hillary was on Fox & friends this morning.

A HRC supporter posted:
Hillary was asked why she campaigns for Obama, when he was her opponent just a few months ago. She explained that she supports Obama/Biden because they most closely reflect her own ideals. She understands that some of her supporters won't vote for Obama and feels disappointed about that. She agreed that there is still a lot of misogyny towards Sarah Palin and that Fox was one of the few networks who stood up and reported on it.

They asked her if she trusts Obama on the 3 AM call and she said yes. She was asked whether her absence as VP pick will be blamed if Obama loses and she responded that she thinks Obama will win.

Next majority leader? She says no

Supreme Court: She says no interest.

Run in 2012? "Chances are close to zero" "Bloom where you're planted"

Great that she admits she understands, as we know full well she does,
we will never support that fraud. And notice how she side-stepped the question
about him losing and if they will say it was because her didn't pick her for VP!
IMO, part of it will, as their were quite a few that despite distrusting him, would only take him if Hillary were his VP.

And good on her for speaking truthfully as to the mysoginistic crap her own party members are dishing out. Then, why should she be surprised, some of the same folks did it to her.

Am I the only one that thinks "Chances are close to zero"
on 2012 is and little wink?

She said flat out no to the others, and then left a slight crack open for 2012.
I say that because if she were confident Obama was going to win, she'd said no and shut the door totally. I feel a little private celebration in the works should obama lose. :cool:

drake3781
Oct 14th, 2008, 03:37 PM
I hope she comes here to talk.
Obama was here 2 miles from my house last week, but I passed.
I saw Bill and Hillary at a small gathering during his first campaign, and I'll never forget it.

In The Zone
Oct 14th, 2008, 04:22 PM
I hope she comes here to talk.
Obama was here 2 miles from my house last week, but I passed.
I saw Bill and Hillary at a small gathering during his first campaign, and I'll never forget it.

So jealous. :( They need to do campaigning in NY but it's so obv blue they won't.

Paneru
Oct 15th, 2008, 04:45 PM
Clinton looms over presidential debate
Ex-candidate to be in audience

Stephen Dinan (Contact)
Wednesday, October 15, 2008

NEW YORK | She's the most important political figure not on the stage Wednesday in the final presidential debate, yet Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has been mentioned just once in the first three presidential and vice-presidential debates.

That could change with increasingly desperate Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain still looking for voters and with Mrs. Clinton in attendance as Mr. McCain and his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, face off in Hempstead, N.Y.

"If there's an opportunity to raise the Clinton name, it will be in this debate," said Morris Reid, a Democratic communications strategist and former Commerce Department official under President Clinton.

Democrats have been thrilled with Mr. Obama's performance in the first two debates, which polls showed he won.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/15/clinton-looms-over-presidential-debate/

I'm glad she'll be there!

And as for the bs that Obama won both debates, the bias in the polling is quite obvious that the msm has skewed it! one need only look at the crap Soledad O'Brien pulled with the focus group at the last debate!

And mcCain doesn't have to be deserpate for our votes, he is getting atleast 35% of them, with only little over 50% going to obama, and the other 25% or so still undecided.

In The Zone
Oct 15th, 2008, 05:47 PM
It is at Hofstra on Long Island, 10 minutes from me! Of course Hill will be there, it is her state. :)

In The Zone
Oct 17th, 2008, 08:39 PM
So I forgot I was supposed to post this and just remembered:

This is the exact speech Senator Clinton gave on the Senate floor the day of the vote on the Iraq Resolution.

To say Hillary voted yes and approved this war is very uninformed. Does this woman know her world, or what?

I hope she works diligently and strongly with the Obama administration to help this country go in the right direction.


This is a very difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.

And perhaps my decision is influenced by my eight years of experience on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue in the White House watching my husband deal with serious challenges to our nation. I want this President, or any future President, to be in the strongest possible position to lead our country in the United Nations or in war. Secondly, I want to insure that Saddam Hussein makes no mistake about our national unity and for our support for the President's efforts to wage America's war against terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. And thirdly, I want the men and women in our Armed Forces to know that if they should be called upon to act against Iraq, our country will stand resolutely behind them.

My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

Paneru
Oct 18th, 2008, 02:22 AM
So I forgot I was supposed to post this and just remembered:

This is the exact speech Senator Clinton gave on the Senate floor the day of the vote on the Iraq Resolution.

To say Hillary voted yes and approved this war is very uninformed. Does this woman know her world, or what?

I hope she works diligently and strongly with the Obama administration to help this country go in the right direction.



http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html


Far to many seem to forget that like Hillary, many gave this authority to Bush on faith that he would use it as a last resort!

Fact is, regardless of whom voted for what, BUSH LIED, TO EVERYONE!!!!!

Why is this concept so hard for so many to grasp? Bush not only violated the authority given to him, he lied to get us into a war
we never should have been in!

drake3781
Oct 18th, 2008, 03:35 AM
Is this supposed to be non-political chat (as I thought) or politics? :confused:

In The Zone
Oct 18th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Is this supposed to be non-political chat (as I thought) or politics? :confused:

It can be whatever we want, like the original Clinton thread.

Paneru
Oct 20th, 2008, 05:39 AM
My thread in the poli-sub forum seems to be missing!
Anyways, you guys will love this!

33vK3SFAfcg

Ellery
Oct 21st, 2008, 04:33 AM
Hey guys :wavey:

I don't think I am going to like the outcome of these American elections very much :o but I loved the outcome of the Canadian ones, so that's gotta count for something, right? :lol:

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2008, 04:47 AM
I don't buy into the msm hype!

This is far from over and if Obama and his people want to act as
if they have it in the bag, let them go right ahead.

Ryan
Oct 21st, 2008, 11:05 AM
Is this supposed to be non-political chat (as I thought) or politics? :confused:



Yes, it was intended to be a non-political debate thread, which is why it is in NT. Any continuation of political arguments will have this thread moved to the political subforum.

Paneru
Oct 22nd, 2008, 12:15 AM
Yes, it was intended to be a non-political debate thread, which is why it is in NT. Any continuation of political arguments will have this thread moved to the political subforum.

Excuse me but the thread title is "Come talk about anything".
We are allowed to talk about anything and every6thing. From
personal to political as the thread title says "anything".

We are adhereing to Kart's rule of not arguing with those others. And we are not, as they found success in shutting our other thread down and have seemingly moved on.

I personally am sick of us getting ragged on because we dare to talk and other's don't like it. Thus, if we respond it is our fault. And if this goes back to the poli-sub forum, the same bs will go down again, and we'll likely catch the blame again!

Ellery
Oct 22nd, 2008, 02:45 AM
Hillary´s birthday is coming up this Sunday :eek: :hearts:

And she was born on the exact same day (and year) as Pat Sajak :eek: :worship:

Paneru
Oct 22nd, 2008, 03:55 PM
Just got an email ....they want this distributed everywhere.

by logistics monster


We Clinton Supporters and bloggers have been viewing the death of the
Democratic Party through the lens of a coup or hostile takeover by its liberal left wing. We witnessed in disbelief as our party became the party of violence, sexism, misogyny, racism, thuggery, theft, corruption, caucus fraud, and voter registration fraud.

Before casting a vote, Centrist Dems and all other Americans must stop looking at the current Democratic Party through the perception they have of what the Democratic Party once meant.

that party was dead and buried on may 31, 2008

This is not your grandmother's left wing (or maybe it is). What is now being uncovered is that the takeover of the Democratic Party is being orchestrated by a group of people with socialist/marxist beliefs, with a pinch of fascism sprinkled in—being led by a hand picked, groomed and marketed messiah under the guise
of “progressivism”—with a belief system that states the ends justify the means. This may also explain why well over 90% of the African American population is voting for this candidate, and though some of it has to do with his race, more may be because of his socialist
philosophy.

barack obama is that hand picked candidate

Hillary Clinton was systematically destroyed by the “Democratic Party” in the primaries. We may debate her strengths and weaknesses as a candidate, but not being part of the 'master plan', she was quite simply irrelevant.

On the other hand, Barack was spoon fed his current core beliefs for
decades, and is a willing participant in the downfall of America as you know
it. The candidate who has shattered all fund raising records, is now deeply
in political debt to his radical associations.

It's time to understand where this “alien” democratic party is heading with
Obama in the foreground and his numerous radical socialist/marxist
associates in the background.

let's start with a history lesson :



Democratic Party:

When political alignments first emerged in George Washington’s
administration, opposing factions were led by Alexander Hamilton and
Thomas Jefferson. In the basic disagreement over the nature and functions
of government and of society, the Jeffersonians advocated a society based
on the small farmer; they opposed strong centralized government and were
suspicious of urban commercial interests. Their ideals—opposed to those
of the Federalist Party — came to be known as Jeffersonian democracy,
based in large part on faith in the virtue and ability of the common man and
the limitation of the powers of the federal government. This group of Anti-
Federalists, who called themselves Republicans or Democratic Republicans
(the name was not fixed as Democratic until 1828), supported many of the
ideals of the French Revolution and opposed close relations with Great
Britain.

Progressive Party:

U.S. independent political party. The first Progressive Party, known as the
Bull Moose Party, was organized in 1911. The second was assembled in
1924; it nominated as its presidential candidate Robert La Follette, who
received 17% of the national vote on a platform calling for a
“housecleaning” of executive departments, public control of natural
resources, public ownership of the railways, and tax reduction. The party
dissolved upon La Follette’s death in 1925. The third Progressive Party,
founded in 1947 by Henry Wallace, differed from the previous groups in its
focus on foreign affairs; it favoured a conciliatory policy toward the Soviet
Union. Though Wallace received more than one million votes in the 1948
election, the party was never again influential.

Progressivism:

The term “progressive” is today often used in place of “liberal“. Although
the two are related in some ways, they are separate and distinct political
ideologies. According to John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the
Center for American Progress, “Progressivism is an orientation towards
politics, It’s not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-
grounded concept… that accepts the world as dynamic.” Progressives see
progressivism as an attitude towards the world of politics that is broader
than conservatism vs. liberalism, and as an attempt to break free from what
they consider to be a false and divisive dichotomy.

American progressives tend to support interventionist economics: they
advocate income redistribution, and they oppose the growing influence of
corporations. Conversely, European and Australian progressives tend to be
more pro-business, and will often have policies that are soft on taxation of
large corporations. Progressives are in agreement on an international scale
with left-liberalism in that they support organized labor and trade unions,
they usually wish to introduce a living wage, and they often support the
creation of a universal health care system. Yet progressives tend to be more
concerned with environmentalism than mainstream liberals, and are often
more skeptical of the government, positioning themselves as
whistleblowers and advocates of governmental reform. Finally, liberals are
more likely to support the Democratic Party in America and the Labour party
in Europe and Australia, while progressives tend to feel disillusioned with
any two-party system, and vote more often for third-party candidates.

Socialism:

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the
means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a
centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and
communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the
dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.
Socialism (in the strict or radical sense) aims to establish a fundamentally
different society from the one that currently exists in most countries. While
there are different schools of socialism, which often tend to have differing
views of the ideal socialist society, some general examples of socialist
concepts are: The desire to abolish capitalism, to place the means of
productionexploits the working class, and they desire for workers to play a
vital role in moving society from capitalism to socialism (either by rising up
in a revolution or general strike, or by voting en masse for socialist political
parties). under the collective ownership of the people, and to achieve a very
high degree of economic and political equality. Socialists argue that
capitalism

In contrast, by definition progressivism aims to achieve gradual social
change, and most progressives are outright opposed to any form of radical
revolution. When the progressive movement split on economic principles,
some progressives moved towards the socialist camp, advocating a
planned economy. Other progressives moved towards the regulated mixed
economy camp, with both public and private ownership of companies.
Between these two extremes is social democracy (not a term in popular U.
S. usage), a branch of socialism that became increasingly moderate and
moved towards the political center. Regulated-capitalism progressives and
socialist progressives still tend to support similar progressive social
policies, outside of economic principles.

Communism:

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership
of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all
members.

2. Communism
a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the
economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to
make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally
shared by the people.
b. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the
overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.
National Socialism, Naziism, Nazism:
national socialism, Naziism, Nazism - a form of socialism featuring racism
and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader

German history the doctrines and practices of the Nazis, involving the
supremacy of Hitler, anti-Semitism, state control of the economy, and
national expansion

The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist
nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

Capitalism:
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are
privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the
accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
An economic system based on private ownership of the means of
production, in which personal profit can be acquired through investment of
capital and employment of labor. Capitalism is grounded in the concept of
free enterprise, which argues that government intervention in the economy
should be restricted and that a free market, based on supply and demand,
will ultimately maximize consumer welfare.

now that you've read those definitions...

Is it not apparent to you that the Democratic Party is now the Progressive
Socialist Party? Income redistribution, universal health care, nationalization
of the economy through our banks, centralized government, and a drive to
destroy the free market capitalist system upon which our nation was built.

remember these words uttered by obama?

“When you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
“It’s no secret that most Americans think the country is on the wrong track”

“But the reason isn’t just failed policies. It’s a system in Washington that
has failed the American people. A system that has not kept the most
fundamental trust of American democracy; that our government is of the
people, and that it must govern for all the people - not just the interests of
the wealthy and well-connected.”

“We don’t need the people, we just need their checks.”

it's the associations stupid

All one has to do is put the pieces together starting with William Ayers,
Obama’s most publicized associate with radical beliefs and actions, and
leading to Bernadine Dohrn, Michelle Obama, Marilyn Katz, Frank Marshall
Davis, Alice Palmer, George Soros, Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Carl
Davidson, Robert Blackwell, Tony Rezko, Dorothy Tillman, Robert Malley,
Cornel West, Howard Dean, Donna Brazille, Nancy Pelosi, MoveOn.org,
Center for American Progress, Open Society Institute, Arab American Action
Network, The Democracy Alliance, The New Party, the Democratic Socialist
Party, The Working Families Party, Socialist Scholars Conference,
Campaign for America’s Future, The Progressive Caucus, Public Allies,
ACORN, Citizens Services, Inc., Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ken Rolling, The
Woods Fund, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge, The Joyce Foundation,
Gamaliel Foundation, Students For A Democratic Society, Saul Alinsky,
Richard Andrew Cloward, Frances Fox Piven, Zbigniew Brzenzinski, Penny
Pritzker, The Superior Bank, The Broadway Bank, Louis Farrakhan and the
Nation of Islam, Reverend Wright, Rather Pfleuger, Raila Odinga of Kenya,
Rashid Khalidi, Nadhmi Auchi and only halting at Fusion Elections because
more has not yet come to light. (And most Americans thought there were
only a handful of radical or crazies in the background, right?)

if you head is spinning or about to explode...

just take a few breaths and notes if need be; it will become clear enough
that this campaign to remake the Democratic Party into the Progressive
Socialist Party has been in the making for well over 20 years by Saul Alinksy
and his students: radical socialist and Columbia University professors,
Richard Cloward and the man considered to be the Godfather of the
movement, Frances Fox Piven.

the cloward-piven strategy of orchestrated crisis



First elucidated in the May 2, 1966 issue of The Nation magazine by a pair of
radical socialist Columbia University professors, writer David Horowitz
summarizes it as:

The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The
“Cloward-Piven Strategy” seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by
overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible
demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.
Cloward and Piven were inspired by radical organizer Saul Alinsky:

“Make the enemy live up to their (sic) own book of rules,” Alinsky wrote in
his 1989 book Rules for Radicals. When pressed to honor every word of
every law and statute, every Judeo-Christian moral tenet, and every implicit
promise of the liberal social contract, human agencies inevitably fall short.
The system’s failure to “live up” to its rule book can then be used to
discredit it altogether, and to replace the capitalist “rule book” with a
socialist one. (Courtesy Discover the Networks.org)

Their strategy was to create political, financial, and social chaos that would
result in a revolution and a forced change in the U.S. Government. To
achieve their revolutionary change, Cloward and Piven used a cadre of
aggressive community organizers assisted by friendly news media to force
a re-distribution of the nation’s wealth.

sound familiar?

In their Nation article, Cloward and Piven were specific about the kind of
“crisis” they were trying to create:

By crisis, we mean a publicly visible disruption in some institutional sphere.
Crisis can occur spontaneously (e.g., riots) or as the intended result of
tactics of demonstration and protest which either generate institutional
disruption or bring unrecognized disruption to public attention.

No matter where the strategy is implemented, it shares the following
features:


The offensive organizes previously unorganized groups eligible for
government benefits but not currently receiving all they can.

The offensive seeks to identify new beneficiaries and/or create new benefits.

The overarching aim is always to impose new stresses on target systems,
with the ultimate goal of forcing their collapse.


speaking of nuts, how does acorn fit it?

In 1970, a young man named Wade Rathke - also a compatriot of Bill Ayers -
sought to broaden that offensive. A disciple of Saul Alinsky and member of
the 60's radical Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) — Rathke was
sent to start up the Arkansas Community Organizations for Reform Now.
The group added low income “rights” to their reportoire in an effort to
expand its base. In pursuit of that expansion, “Arkansas” was changed to
“Association of” and a nationwide ACORN was born.



enter 2008 and a presidential election



Today ACORN is involved in a wide array of activities, including housing,
voting rights, illegal immigration and other issues. According to ACORN’s
website: “ACORN is the nation’s largest grassroots community organization
of low-and moderate-income people with over 400,000 member families
organized into more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters in 110 cities across
the country,” It is perhaps the largest radical group in the U.S. and has been
cited for widespread criminal activity on many fronts. (Let’s not get ahead of
the whole story though.)

By now, if you do not know that William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are
domestic terrorists and founders of the Weather Underground that bombed
American targets, you need to come out of the wilderness and pay attention
to the current political situation. Barack (and possibly Michelle) have been
involved with the Ayers for more than 20 years starting in 1985 with the
Woods Fund. Also be aware that the Woods Fund has given grants to
ACORN, Rashid Khalidi and Trinity United Church.

we're almost done...stay with us

The Woods Fund financed the hiring of Obama in 1985 by the Developing
Communities Project. According to The Nation: “The Woods Fund, in many
ways, is responsible for helping start Obama as an organizer and shaping
his political identity. In 1985 the foundation gave a $25,000 grant to the
Developing Communities Project (aka the “DCP”), which hired Obama, at
24, as an organizer on Chicago’s economically depressed South Side.”
The Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family which owned the
Illinois-based Sahara Coal Company, a major supplier of coal from its mines
to major Illinois power companies. Commonwealth Edison, the giant
Chicago-based electric power company was headed by Thomas Ayers,
father of Bill Ayers.

Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill
Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the
board today. He chaired the board for two years during that time.

Another strand in this massive spiderweb is Ken Rolling, introduced here,
and also the person behind the cleaning and containment of the Annenberg
papers when Stanley Kurtz was originally investigating the Ayers/Obama
connection.

Obama’s Developing Communities Project (DCP) supported radical school
reform project in conjunction with Bill Ayers.

In 1987 in the wake of a controversial strike by the Chicago Teachers’
Union, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools, or ABCs, was formed to
lobby for a new Illinois law that would mandate the establishment of a new
power center in Chicago public schools. Local school councils would be
established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would
have the power to fire principals at will.

Bill Ayers was a contact person for the ABCs (although we do not know
precisely when he attained this position) and later its chair. Barack Obama
worked on school reform efforts for the DCP at that time, the DCP played a
leading role in the school reform effort and the DCP was a member of the
ABCs. Chicago United, a business group established by Tom Ayers, Bill’s
father, was also a leading organizer of and member of the ABCs.

The Woods Fund also provided additional financial support to the DCP in
1988 to support its school reform efforts. A program officer of the Woods
Fund at the time was Ken Rolling who would later be hired by Bill Ayers and
Barack Obama as Executive Director of the $110 million Chicago Annenberg
Challenge.

maybe u should grab some more coffee



An informative WSJ article explains that Bill Ayers has not changed his
radical thinking; it has morphed over into teaching our teachers how to
produce radical thinking children. Ayers Is No Education ‘Reformer’.

One of the most misleading statements during the presidential debates was
when Barack Obama claimed that William Ayers was just “a guy in the
neighborhood.”

But that piece of spin is nothing compared to the false story now being
peddled by Mr. Obama’s media supporters that Mr. Ayers — who worked
with the Democratic nominee for years to disperse education grants
through a group called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge — has redeemed
his terrorist past.

[snip]

I’ve studied Mr. Ayers’s work for years and read most of his books. His
hatred of America is as virulent as when he planted a bomb at the
Pentagon. And this hatred informs his educational “reform” efforts. Of
course, Mr. Obama isn’t going to appoint him to run the education
department. But the media mainstreaming of a figure like Mr. Ayers could
have terrible consequences for the country’s politics and public schools.

The education career of William Ayers began when he enrolled at Columbia
University’s Teachers College at the age of 40. He planned to stay long
enough to get a teaching credential. But he experienced an epiphany in a
course offered by Maxine Greene, who urged future teachers to tell children
about the evils of the existing, oppressive capitalist social order. In her
essay “In Search of a Critical Pedagogy,” for example, Ms. Greene wrote of
an education that would portray “homelessness as a consequence of the
private dealings of landlords, an arms buildup as a consequence of
corporate decisions, racial exclusion as a consequence of a private property-
holder’s choice.”

That was music to the ears of the ex-Weatherman. Mr. Ayers acquired a
doctorate in education and landed an Ed school appointment at the
University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC).

[snip]

In this Chicago, where there are no enemies on the left, Mr. Ayers’s second
career flourished. It didn’t hurt that his father, Thomas Ayers, was the CEO
of the Commonwealth Edison company, a friend of both Daleys and a major
power broker in the city.

Mr. Ayers was hired by the Chicago public schools to train teachers, and
played a leading role in the $160 million Annenberg Challenge grant that
distributed funds to a host of so-called school-reform projects, including
some social-justice themed schools and schools organized by Acorn.
Barack Obama became the first chairman of the board of the Chicago
Annenberg Challenge organization in 1995. When asked for an opinion on
the Obama/Ayers connection, Mayor Daley told the New York Times that Mr.
Ayers had “done a lot of good in this city and nationally.”

In fact, as one of the leaders of a movement for bringing radical social-
justice teaching into our public school classrooms, Mr. Ayers is not a school
reformer. He is a school destroyer.

He still hopes for a revolutionary upheaval that will finally bring down
American capitalism and imperialism, but this time around Mr. Ayers sows
the seeds of resistance and rebellion in America’s future teachers.

Back to Ken Rolling; the donor that wanted to examine the records prior to
the release.

As Global Labor readers are well aware the University of Illinois at Chicago
denied Stanley Kurtz of National Review access to the official records of the
Chicago Annenberg Challenge, the six-year-long $160 million education
reform project led by, among others, Barack Obama and Bill Ayers.

The denial of access to the archives of the CAC was unusual and possibly
illegal. It was done after the University, again without any legal justification
that I am aware of, contacted someone they said was the “donor” of the
records. That “donor” wanted to examine the records prior to their release
to the public.

This is highly unusual in light of the fact that the records had been
deposited with UIC in 2002 and had been processed by UIC librarians and
made ready for access by researchers. Only when Mr. Kurtz, a
conservative, requested that he be allowed to see them was the “donor”
contacted.

Thanks to the diligent efforts of a 3rd year law student in Chicago who filed
a Freedom of Information Act request with UIC, Global Labor can reveal
tonight that the alleged “donor” who was contacted by UIC and who tried to
block Dr. Kurtz’ access to the CAC records was Ken Rolling, former
Executive Director of the CAC and a former staff member of the Woods
Fund in the 1980s when the Woods Fund provided financial support to the
Developing Communities Project which was then headed up by Barack
Obama.

Thus, someone with a 20 year history with Senator Obama was tipped off in
advance and in secret by a public University about the interest of a political
opponent of the Senator in these public records. The CAC was a non profit
corporation organized under the laws of the state of Illinois to serve the
interests of the people of Illinois. Of course, Ken Rolling now has no legally
cognizable interest that I am aware of in the long defunct CAC. Legally, the
successor organization to the CAC is the Chicago Public Education Fund,
on whose board sits Obama Campaign Finance Chair Penny Pritzker and
Obama supporter Susan Crown. (Do you recognize that name; Penny
Pritzker of the Superior Bank Sub-prime Mortgage Meltdown?)

u ready to shoot urself yet? i am ;-)

Obama and Dohrn worked for elite law firm Sidley and Austin

After surfacing from the Weather Underground in 1980 Bernardine Dohrn,
wife of Bill Ayers, pled guilty to criminal charges related to the violent Days
of Rage in Chicago in 1969 and received three years probation. She later
refused to testify in front of a grand jury convened to investigate a bank
robbery carried out by former comrades of Dohrn’s from the Weather
Underground. Currently a clinical faculty member at Northwestern
University School of Law, she told the New York Times that she thought
grand juries were “illegal” and “coercive.” She served seven months in jail.
Because of the criminal convictions Dohrn, who received a law degree from
the University of Chicago in 1967, was refused admission to the New York
bar. Nonetheless, she was hired as a legal clerk by Sidley and Austin, a
major Chicago law firm, in their New York office in 1984. Howard Trienens,
then managing partner of the firm, recently told the Chicago Tribune that he
arranged the hiring of Dohrn as a favor to his fellow Northwestern
University trustee and classmate, Tom Ayers. Tom Ayers’ firm,
Commonwealth Edison, has used Sidley as outside counsel for many years.
She later worked in their Chicago office when she and Bill Ayers moved
back to Chicago in 1987. She left Sidley in 1988.

Enter Khalid Abdullah Tariqu al-Mansour:
Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour is a Muslim lawyer and a black nationalist
who made news in 2008 when it was revealed that he had been a patron of
Barack Obama and had recommended the latter for admission to Harvard
Law School in 1988.

Before becoming a Muslim, al-Mansour in the 1960s was named Don
Warden. He was deeply involved in San Francisco Bay Area racial politics
as founder of a group called the African American Association. A close
personal adviser to Huey Newton and Bobby Seale, al-Mansour helped the
pair establish the Black Panther Party but later broke with them when they
entered coalitions with white radical groups.

[snip]

Al-Mansour is an outspoken hater of the United States, Israel, and white
people generally. In recent years he has accused the U.S. of plotting a
“genocide” designed “to remove 15 million black people, considered
disposable, of no relevance, value or benefit to the American society.”…

There is more information at the link, but I could not bring myself to reprint
it, and yet, it may explain why Barack Obama and Reverend Wright are so
close.

Steve Diamond:

Chicago lefty lawyer and Dohrn classmate Judson Miner hires Barack
Obama out of Harvard.

Barack Obama returned to Harvard after his summer at Sidley and Austin in
the fall of 1989. That academic year he was elected the president of the
Harvard Law Review, the first black person to hold the position. Although
Obama could have returned to Sidley or perhaps clerked for the United
States Supreme Court, a natural step for Law Review officers, he chose
instead to work for Judson Miner, a partner in a small civil rights law firm in
Chicago. Miner had been counsel to Chicago’s late black mayor, Harold
Washington. Miner was also classmates with Bernardine Dohrn at the
University of Chicago law school in 1967 where they were both were
involved in anti-war activity.

Barack Obama became the first African-American president of the Harvard
Law Review, yet as editor, no evidence of written or published papers has
been uncovered to date, as would be required of the editor.

that annenberg thing

the connection between the Obamas and the Ayers started in 1985 as far as
anyone can seem to ascertain. But it really revved into high hear with the
Chicago Annenberg Challenge, spearheaded by William Ayers.

In late 1993, Bill Ayers, now an associate professor of education at the
University of Illinois Chicago Circle Campus, organized a team to put
together a grant proposal to secure nearly $50 million from the Annenberg
Foundation. The money was to be used by Ayers to bolster the radical
Local School Councils reform project that Ayers and Obama had
championed back in 1988.

The grant application was successful and in early 1995, Barack Obama was
named chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Ayers
was named co-chair of the Challenge’s operative and strategic body, the
Chicago School Reform Collaborative. Ayers and Obama work together for
the next five years on raising an additional $60 million in matching money
from local foundations and corporations and using the money to intervene
in the governance of the Chicago public schools.
snip

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge paid for a team headquartered at the
University of Chicago to assess the impact of the more than $100 million
they spent in Chicago public schools over that six year period,1995-2001.
Their conclusion in a 250 page 2003 report was that the money had no
impact at all: test scores in schools that received money from Annenberg
went up, but at the same rate as all other schools in Chicago. There was, in
the words of the report, “no Annenberg effect.” For Barack Obama, chairing
"CAC" was one of the only true executive experiences he's had, yet by all
accounts, it was considered a flop.

lovebirds of a feather ...

Barack met Michelle in 1989 while they were both at Sidley Austin. They
were married in October 1992, and according to Investor’s Business Daily,
Barack Obama is the founding member of Public Allies and Michelle became
the executive director of the Chicago Chapter. This is where the beginnings
of their socialist views started to come to light.

Barack Obama was a founding member of the board of Public Allies in 1992,
resigning before his wife became executive director of the Chicago chapter
of Public Allies in 1993. Obama plans to use the nonprofit group, which he
features on his campaign Web site, as the model for a national service
corps. He calls his Orwellian program, “Universal Voluntary Public Service.”

Big Brother had nothing on the Obamas. They plan to herd American youth
into government-funded reeducation camps where they’ll be brainwashed
into thinking America is a racist, oppressive place in need of “social
change.”

The pitch Public Allies makes on its Web site doesn’t seem all that radical. It
promises to place young adults (18-30) in paid one-year “community
leadership” positions with nonprofit or government agencies. They’ll also
be required to attend weekly training workshops and three retreats.

In exchange, they’ll get a monthly stipend of up to $1,800, plus paid health
and child care. They also get a post-service education award of $4,725 that
can be used to pay off past student loans or fund future education.

But its real mission is to radicalize American youth and use them to bring
about “social change” through threats, pressure, tension and confrontation
— the tactics used by the father of community organizing, Saul “The Red”
Alinsky.

“Our alumni are more than twice as likely as 18-34 year olds to . . . engage in
protest activities,” Public Allies boasts in a document found with its tax
filings. It has already deployed an army of 2,200 community organizers like
Obama to agitate for “justice” and “equality” in his hometown of Chicago
and other U.S. cities, including Cincinnati, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New
York, Phoenix, Pittsburgh and Washington. “I get to practice being an
activist,” and get paid for it, gushed Cincinnati recruit Amy Vincent.

Public Allies promotes “diversity and inclusion,” a program paper says.
More than 70% of its recruits are “people of color.” When they’re not
protesting, they’re staffing AIDS clinics, handing out condoms, bailing
criminals out of jail and helping illegal aliens and the homeless obtain food
stamps and other welfare.

Public Allies brags that more than 80% of graduates have continued
working in nonprofit or government jobs. It’s training the “next generation
of nonprofit leaders” — future “social entrepreneurs.”

The Obamas discourage work in the private sector. “Don’t go into
corporate America,” Michelle has exhorted youth. “Work for the community.
Be social workers.” Shun the “money culture,” Barack added. “Individual
salvation depends on collective salvation.”

Also during this time in his life, Barack directed the Illinois’ Project Vote
(April to October 1992). Enter ACORN and Midwest Academy, besides
being part of the Shadow Party are funded, among others, by the Woods
Fund of Chicago, and George Soros’ Open Society Institute. Allow me to
back up just a bit here though. According to Discover The Networks:

who trained u, mr. obama?

Obama was trained by the Saul Alinsky-founded Industrial Areas Foundation
(IAF) in Chicago. (The Developing Communities Project itself was an affiliate
of the Gamaliel Foundation, whose modus operandi for the creation of “a
more just and democratic society” is rooted firmly in the Alinsky method.)
Alinsky was known for helping to establish the aggressive political tactics
that characterized the 1960s and have remained central to all subsequent
revolutionary movements in the United States.

In the Alinsky model, “organizing” is a euphemism for “revolution” — a
wholesale revolution whose ultimate objective is the systematic acquisition
of power by a purportedly oppressed segment of the population, and the
radical transformation of America’s social and economic structure. The goal
is to foment enough public discontent, moral confusion, and outright chaos
to spark the social upheaval that Marx, Engels, and Lenin predicted — a
revolution whose foot soldiers view the status quo as fatally flawed and
wholly unworthy of salvation. Thus, the theory goes, the people will settle
for nothing less than that status quo’s complete collapse — to be followed
by the erection of an entirely new system upon its ruins. Toward that end,
they will be apt to follow the lead of charismatic radical organizers who
project an aura of confidence and vision, and who profess to clearly
understand what types of societal “changes” are needed.

But Alinsky’s brand of revolution was not characterized by dramatic,
sweeping, overnight transformations of social institutions. As Richard Poe
puts it, “Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was
to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political
parties.” Alinsky advised organizers and their disciples to quietly, subtly
gain influence within the decision-making ranks of these institutions, and to
introduce changes from that platform.

One of Obama’s early mentors in the Alinsky method, Mike Kruglik, would
later say the following about Obama:

“He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a
room full of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue, nudging them
to admit that they were not living up to their own standards. As with the
panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing,
sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their
lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope
that they could make things better.”

For several years, Obama himself taught workshops on the Alinsky method.

okay, now back to acorn and our 'almost prez'

ACORN, Project Vote and Barack Obama:

Beginning in the mid-1980s, Obama worked with ACORN, a creation of the
Alinsky network. ACORN was a grassroots political organization that grew
out of George Wiley’s National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO), whose
members in the late 1960s and early 70s had invaded welfare offices across
the U.S. — often violently — bullying social workers and loudly demanding
every penny to which the law “entitled” them.[2]

Obama also worked for Project Vote, the voter-mobilization arm of ACORN.
Project Vote’s professed purpose is to carry out “non-partisan” voter-
registration drives; to counsel voters on their rights; and to litigate on behalf
of voting rights — focusing on the rights of the poor and the
“disenfranchised.”[3] Obama was the attorney for ACORN’s lead election-
law cases, and he worked as a trainer at ACORN’s annual conferences,
where he taught members of the organization the art of radical community
organizing.

[snip]

Also in 1995, Obama sued, on behalf of ACORN, for the implementation of
the Motor Voter law in Illinois. Jim Edgar, the state’s Republican Governor,
opposed the law because he believed that allowing voters to register using
only a postcard would breed widespread fraud.

ACORN would later invite Obama to help train its staff. Moreover, Obama
eventually would sit on the Board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, which
gave a number of sizable grants to ACORN.

boy ur a quick study

Completely confused yet? Curious about the Shadow Party? Please do not
say I did not warn you at the start of this journey….

The “Shadow Party” is a term originally devised by journalists to describe 527 political committees promoting Democratic Party agendas. It is here used more specifically to refer to the network of non-profit activist groups organized by George Soros and others to mobilize resources – money, get-out-the-vote drives, campaign advertising and policy iniatives – to elect Democratic candidates and guide the Democratic Party towards the left. The Internet fund-raising operation MoveOn.org is a key component. The Shadow Party in this sense was conceived and organized principally by Soros, Hillary Clinton and Harold Ickes. Its efforts are amplified by, and coordinated with, key government unions and the activist groups associated with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN). The key organizers of these groups are veterans of the Sixties left.

what about this marxism thing?

Barack starts his political career with the help of the endorsement of the New Party:


Marxist political coalition

Active from 1992-1998

Endorsed Barack Obama in 1996 for the Illinois State Senate

this is especially relevant if u watched hannity last night

Co-founded in 1992 by Daniel Cantor (a former staffer for Jesse Jackson’s 1988 presidential campaign) and Joel Rogers (a sociology and law professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison), the New Party was a Marxist political coalition whose objective was to endorse and elect leftist public officials – most often Democrats. The New Party’s short-term objective was to move the Democratic Party leftward, thereby setting the stage for the eventual rise of new Marxist third party.

Most New Party members hailed from the Democratic Socialists of America and the militant organization ACORN. The party’s Chicago chapter also included a large contingent from the Committees of Correspondence, a Marxist coalition of former Maoists, Trotskyists, and Communist Party USA members.

The New Party’s modus operandi included the political strategy of “electoral fusion,” where it would nominate, for various political offices, candidates from other parties (usually Democrats), thereby enabling each of those candidates to occupy more than one ballot line in the voting booth. By so doing, the New Party often was able to influence candidates (Fusion of this type is permitted in seven states — Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, and Vermont — but is common only in New York.)


http://www.justsaynodeal.com/

Ellery
Oct 23rd, 2008, 12:50 AM
Okay Paneru :p That is way too long :p If I had time to read this I would instead use it to read my school stuffs :lol:

Paneru
Oct 25th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Okay Paneru :p That is way too long :p If I had time to read this I would instead use it to read my school stuffs :lol:

:lol:

Well, it mostly is walk has been talked about over the past few days.
Hillary just didn't fit into the bigger picture of where Pelosi, Reid, Dean and some others want. Hence, Obama gettting picked!

And we are seeing more of what Obama and Pelosi especially are all about.

Paneru
Oct 25th, 2008, 01:35 AM
If the AP is correct, Barack Obama’s base problem is very serious

October 24th, 2008
By Kevin “Coach” Collins

A recent AP poll screamed trouble for Barack Obama.

It reported his base support to be just 80%. If this is accurate, and that is a very big IF, he can not win.

Last June when former Hillary Clinton supporters were asked, 58% supported Obama. But the same survey also showed 21% voting for John McCain. A follow-up survey of the very same people showed support for McCain had grown to 28% while remaining stagnant at 58% for Obama. The undecideds seem to be moving to McCain.

These numbers have been swept under the rug by the media, but they are still very important.

During the Democratic primaries, exit polls showed a consistent core of 20% that would not be voting for Obama in the general election.

Whether Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos can be blamed for this distressing news for Obama can be debated, but it doesn’t completely explain away the numbers in the face of subsequent polls showing the same results.

If Obama is getting just 80% of Democrat support he is in trouble. A base support this low can not be overcome and will not get Obama elected. Almost all polls of rank and file Democrats have shown Obama’s base support in the eighties and mid seventies.

In 2000 Al Gore got 92% and lost. In 2004 John Kerry got 89% and lost by a clear margin.

There would have to be a huge difference in party identification to pull Obama through with just 80% of his base. The reported split among Independents doesn’t help either.

A September AP poll of Democratic and Independent likely voters showed that 1/3 hold negative views of Blacks. The same surveyed showed that 40% of all Americans have negative views toward Blacks. Is it that hard to believe the 80% support level?

The base support numbers tell the story. If they are real, this will be a tough night for the Democrat’s candidate. Additional fresh information reveals that the TIPPs poll has Obama with an 86 percent base support, but the 11.6% undecided number makes that suspect

http://www.collinsreport.net/

Fact is that contrary to msm reporting, the vow of the many Hillary supporters that have not forgot what Obama and the DNC did to Hillary and us during and after the primary to the election has not and will not be forgotten! And some I have read personal accounts from that were to back him in the GE changed their minds after seeing more of him.

You know, I think the unfair and personal sexist attacks on palin, the use of the race card, along with the wholes in Obama's character and policies, it all has served as a reminder of what Obama and the rest did to Hillary and Bill in the primaries.

When/If Obama loses, they will be having no one to blame but themselves for a lot of the bs they pulled! And it would be
poetic justice to see it all come back on them!

In The Zone
Oct 25th, 2008, 02:30 AM
:lol:

Well, it mostly is walk has been talked about over the past few days.
Hillary just didn't fit into the bigger picture of where Pelosi, Reid, Dean and some others want. Hence, Obama gettting picked!

And we are seeing more of what Obama and Pelosi especially are all about.

Basically. I don't think it was meant personally to Hillary or the Clintons. There is a deep respect for them. They just happened to get into the way. :shrug:

drake3781
Oct 25th, 2008, 03:19 AM
Can anyone give me a plausible scenario other than Obama/Biden being elected and serving a normal term, or McCain/Palin doing the same? Somehow I cannot believe either one of those is going to happen, but the alternate scenario that will happen is not clear to me atm.

drake3781
Oct 25th, 2008, 04:19 AM
Hillary Clinton: Barack Obama Will Be Ready on Day One
'Back in the Fray' on the Trail, Sen. Clinton Reflects on Own Historic Candidacy
By KATIE ESCHERICH
Oct. 21, 2008

As the presidential campaign enters the homestretch, Sen. Hillary Clinton hit the trail in Nebraska, Tuesday, in support of Sen. Barack Obama, whom she called her friend.


Clinton questioned Obama's experience during the campaign, but in an interview with "Nightline" co-anchor Cynthia McFadden she said that she was now committed to helping him win the White House.


"I was running against him," she said. "I mean, it would be like saying to somebody who just lost the playoffs ... to get into the World Series, 'Well, you know, are you going to root for the team from your league?' And, you know, 'Yeah, I'll get around to it.' ... It's a human experience and, obviously, a lot of human emotion."


Clinton said that after the "intense experience" of the primary, she needed to recharge before returning to campaign on behalf of her former opponent. After "getting a little sleep, taking a few long walks, I was back in the fray and very happy to be doing everything I can for him," she said.


Reflecting on her own historic campaign for the presidency, Clinton said that she had never thought of herself as "the woman candidate, although obviously I was," and that she hadn't anticipated "the historical burden that I was carrying."



When asked about Gov. Sarah Palin, Clinton said that she didn't mind comparisons with the Republican vice presidential candidate, but wouldn't say whether she thought Palin represented a positive step forward for women.


Issues, Clinton said, are "fair game," but "I think that both Barack and Joe [Biden] were very smart, after an initial kind of misstep, in pulling back and not criticizing Governor Palin personally."


Sen. John McCain's campaign has been criticized for raising personal attacks against Obama, in referencing his relationship with former 1960s radical Bill Ayers. McCain initially defended his decision, but the campaign later backed off that approach. Clinton said she wouldn't "make a value judgment" on how another campaign was run. "He gets to run his campaign however he chooses," she said, "But I don't think that he's been very effective in making the case for new leadership and the kind of separation from the Bush policies and the Republican ideology that has been so bad for America."


(story continues at http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=6080989&page=1 )

Ellery
Oct 26th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Happy birthday Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton!

:worship: :D :cool: :wavey: :bounce: :kiss: :hearts: :drool: :drive: :rocker::banana::aparty::rocker2::music::hehehe::b igwave::yippee::yeah::hug::bigclap::clap2:

Paneru
Oct 26th, 2008, 09:59 PM
http://shorefire.com/blog/uploaded_images/Marquee-706988.jpg

Paneru
Oct 26th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Here's a great vid from her birthday last year w/Elvis Costello singing Happy Birthday Mrs. President. :hearts:

Q-88XwZRPIY

Paneru
Oct 30th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Cute pic i found. :lol:

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/drunk_clinton.jpg

drake3781
Oct 30th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Remember when Hillary chugged that shot of whiskey in a bar during the campaign? :lol:

In The Zone
Oct 30th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Cute pic i found. :lol:

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/drunk_clinton.jpg

Omg. :rolls: The (Drunk) Hills! So cute.

Paneru
Nov 2nd, 2008, 04:46 PM
Republican Flyers sent out this week in PA.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9906/mccainflyerho8.png

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9986/mccainflyer2fl7.png

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9387/mccainflyer3fi0.png

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6718/mccainflyer4iz4.png

Paneru
Nov 2nd, 2008, 04:51 PM
18 Million Cracks
82qCwLX9piE

My girl! :hug:

drake3781
Nov 3rd, 2008, 12:03 AM
:inlove:

LeonHart
Nov 4th, 2008, 04:17 PM
OMG Guys! I just wanted to pop in and say I voted for the first time today. Now I cannot stop smiling! :bounce:

You can guess who i voted for :devil:

BigB08822
Nov 4th, 2008, 04:24 PM
Today is a sad day for me, it was supposed to be our victory day! Hillary, I love you and will be there again if you ever decide to run another time!

drake3781
Nov 5th, 2008, 02:41 AM
Today is a sad day for me, it was supposed to be our victory day! Hillary, I love you and will be there again if you ever decide to run another time!


:hug:

Paneru
Nov 5th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Today is a sad day for me, it was supposed to be our victory day! Hillary, I love you and will be there again if you ever decide to run another time!

I feel you babe! :hug: :kiss:

Paneru
Nov 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM
OMG Guys! I just wanted to pop in and say I voted for the first time today. Now I cannot stop smiling! :bounce:

You can guess who i voted for :devil:

That's great! :cool:

It was so exciting my first time four years ago as well!

Paneru
Nov 5th, 2008, 02:42 PM
OMG Guys! I just wanted to pop in and say I voted for the first time today. Now I cannot stop smiling! :bounce:

You can guess who i voted for :devil:

That's great! :cool:

It was so exciting my first time four years ago as well!

LeonHart
Nov 5th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Sooo not even 24 hours after Barack is elected president, violence is erupting in Israel, Russia wants to deploy a missile at our missile shield in Poland, and stock markets go down. I wonder if this is a sign of things to come :sad:

drake3781
Nov 5th, 2008, 05:59 PM
Please go to political subforum and find the thread about keeping that subforum permanently. Please vote to keep that subforum.

Paneru
Nov 5th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Sooo not even 24 hours after Barack is elected president, violence is erupting in Israel, Russia wants to deploy a missile at our missile shield in Poland, and stock markets go down. I wonder if this is a sign of things to come :sad:

sadly it very well maybe.

Obama wants to raise capital gains tax meaning less domestic and foreign investment in the stock market. Therefore, I think we can expect all this flux in the economy to contiue long after Bush is gone.

I just find it ironic that obama benefitted from a crisi them dems are largely responsible for. And bill was the only Dem i saw to step up and take his share of the responsibility.

In The Zone
Nov 6th, 2008, 05:47 AM
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v344/150/8/27616783/n27616783_34985100_4043.jpg

Paneru
Nov 6th, 2008, 06:03 PM
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v344/150/8/27616783/n27616783_34985100_4043.jpg

:hearts:

LeonHart
Nov 6th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Stocks are freeee falling. And I bet it's only the start of things to come.

In The Zone
Nov 6th, 2008, 06:15 PM
:hearts:

My fav shirt ever. Sister got it when she went to Virginia Beach. :lol:

Paneru
Nov 7th, 2008, 12:27 AM
My fav shirt ever. Sister got it when she went to Virginia Beach. :lol:

And what of the boy wearing it? ;)

Paneru
Nov 7th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Hillary, Bill Clinton to be honored at NYC dinner

NEW YORK (AP) — Former President Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are being honored Thursday night at a gala at the newly refurbished Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum.
Both Clintons are scheduled to speak at the event, which kicks off the opening weekend of the Intrepid after a nearly two-year restoration. Next week, President Bush will deliver a Veterans Day address on the famed World War II aircraft carrier.
It will be the Clintons' first public appearance since Barack Obama was elected president.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/bagelbite90/Politics/Clintons_sff_standalone_prod_affili.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081107/capt.b02a20e13da4459abef613d1df2f8925.clintons_nyl l107.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081107/capt.6e68653358a24c0881835287d756980d.clintons_nyl l101.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081107/capt.ab4d08042297412aa8fd14bdb7b4b402.correction_c lintons_nyll106.jpg


:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2008, 03:34 AM
Fear Of A Hillary Coup
John Carney | Nov 6, 08 11:39 AM

Forget everything you hear about president elect Barack Obama's priorities. Right now the biggest concern within Obama's inner circle is fear that Hillary Clinton is plotting a coup.

Of course she's not about to attempt to unseat Obama himself. But sources close to the matter say that Obama's advisers and Democratic party bosses are convinced that Clinton is plotting to unseat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and install herself at the top of the Democratic leadership on Capitol Hill. Although the Democrats made gains in the House and Senate, they fell short of their goal of creating a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. Clinton may attempt to pin the blame on Reid, who is regarded by many colleagues as a weak and ineffective leader.

If Clinton did topple Reid and capture the top spot for herself, she might attempt to greatly expand the role by taking center stage in policy making. She would be in a position to make herself something like a co-president with Obama. It would be very hard for Obama to accomplish much without her consent, including the confirmation of his nominees for cabinet positions.

Some suspect that one reason we've seen so many former Clinton administration officials on the short list for the top ranks of the Obama administration is that Obama's advisers expect Clinton to play a larger role in the Senate.

On a side note, we're sorry that we have to report so much about politics on a finance and business site. We never expected to find ourselves reporting Capitol Hill rumors. But these days you can't report Wall Street without reporting Washington.

http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/11/fear-of-a-hillary-coup

In The Zone
Nov 9th, 2008, 03:52 AM
It's the only position I could see Hillary wanting.

It'd be great for her nation if she were to get it. Rock on Hill. Everyone needs to put their egos aside and work on this country's progress.

Paneru
Nov 10th, 2008, 05:59 PM
It's the only position I could see Hillary wanting.

It'd be great for her nation if she were to get it. Rock on Hill. Everyone needs to put their egos aside and work on this country's progress.

I agree!


Bayh says Clinton could be ‘historic’ senator

By Klaus Marre
Posted: 11/10/08 12:22 PM [ET]

Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh (D) on Monday said he would be surprised if Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) accepted a Cabinet appointment, adding that she could be a “historic” senator.

Asked on MSNBC whether the former first lady, whom Bayh supported this year for the Democratic presidential nomination, would be a good secretary of State, the senator answered that she would be a “great choice.”

“But I'd be somewhat surprised. I think she has the ability to step in in the Senate and be a historic figure there,” Bayh stated. “I’d be somewhat surprised if she would be willing to give that up for a place in the Cabinet, which is significant, but, after all, you’re implementing someone else’s ideas, not your own.”


http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/bayh-says-clinton-could-be-historic-senator-2008-11-10.html

Not that she'd ever be considered(just as with the VP position), but I highly doubt as Evan said, that she would ever take the position. Hillary wants to make policies, not just enforce someone else's.

And I think all the SC talk for Hillary is nonsense.

I think given the weakness of Harry Reid and how many are unsatisfied with him, Hillary would have a great shot at becoming Senate Majority Leader.

Paneru
Nov 20th, 2008, 02:10 AM
I honestly cannot see Hillary as his SOS.

I highly doubt she wants it
and I think she'll remain in the Senate.

darrinbaker00
Nov 21st, 2008, 06:05 AM
I honestly cannot see Hillary as his SOS.

I highly doubt she wants it
and I think she'll remain in the Senate.
Seeing as how you've been wrong about all things Hillary this year, Paneru, that means she's a lock for the job. ;)

Paneru
Nov 21st, 2008, 04:22 PM
I honestly cannot see Hillary as his SOS.

I highly doubt she wants it
and I think she'll remain in the Senate.

Hillary might reject State offer

By GLENN THRUSH | 11/19/08 6:13 AM EST
Updated: 11/19/08 6:13 AM EST

Hillary Rodham Clinton isn’t certain she would accept the Secretary of State post even if Barack Obama offers it to her, several people close to the former first lady say.

Press reports that portray Clinton as willing to accept the job – once the Obama transition team vets Bill Clinton’s philanthropic and business ventures – are inaccurate, one Clinton insider told Politico.

“A lot of the speculation and reporting is out ahead of the facts here,” said the person, who requested anonymity. “She is still weighing this, independent of President Clinton's work.”

Clinton, the person said, remains deeply “torn” between the possibility of serving in Obama’s cabinet and remaining in the Senate to “help pass health care and work on a broad range of domestic issues.”

That comment jibes with what others close to Clinton have been saying since the Secretary of State chatter began last week: that Clinton is conflicted and the deal far from done, despite screaming headlines in outlets including the U.K.’s Guardian newspaper claiming the offer was made and accepted.

Most of the speculation about Clinton’s frame of mind in the last few days has been off-base, sources say, because she’s played her cards close to the vest, consulting only her husband and two or three kitchen cabinet advisers.

“We’ve gotten rid of all the other idiots,” joked one Clinton confidant, a reference to the Clinton campaign’s propensity for leaks.

The Clinton camp’s effort to downplay her interest in the post might simply reflect her need to create an alternative storyline if the deal falls apart for other reasons, including the possibility that insurmountable problems arise during the vetting process, Democrats not connected with Clinton cautioned.

Another possible motivation: Pushing back against the perception that she’s at the mercy of Obama’s team.

“Everybody wants to be perceived as being in the driver’s seat,” said a top Democratic official. “She’s no different.”

Obama isn’t likely to make a formal offer of the post to Clinton unless he’s given assurances that Bill Clinton’s global charitable foundation won’t create future conflicts of interest with foreign governments.

The Clinton Foundation has earned praise for its efforts to eradicate AIDS, malaria and poverty in Africa. But it could prove problematic if the former president continues to arrange donations from foreign countries at the same time that his wife serves as secretary of state.

Obama’s vetting team expressed similar concerns about Bill Clinton’s overseas fundraising when Hillary Clinton was briefly considered for the vice-presidency.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15738.html


Yeah, I don't think it is gonna work on a number of level's.

It's so restrictive not only too her but Bill's foundation
and I think she likes being in the Senate because she can help
to create and pass laws.

Paneru
Nov 21st, 2008, 04:26 PM
Nov 19, 11:54 AM EST


Bill Clinton to raise funds for King Memorial

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Organizers of the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial say former President Bill Clinton will help raise funds to complete the project planned for the National Mall.

The group announced Wednesday that Clinton will receive the foundation's "Humanitarian Award" and will serve as keynote speaker at a Jan. 8 dinner in Miami to help raise money for the memorial. The John S. and James L. Knight Foundation will sponsor the dinner.

The memorial foundation has raised $100 million of the $120 million needed to complete the project.

The project is planned for the banks of the Tidal Basin between the Lincoln and Jefferson memorials. It would be the first major tribute to a black leader on the National Mall.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KING_MEMORIAL_CLINTON?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Keep up the good work Bill! :cool:

Paneru
Nov 21st, 2008, 04:38 PM
Hillary Honored at the Glamour Women Awards in NY

Sen. Hillary Clinton's award for being a trailblazer was the grand finale of the evening. Her hair looked longer since her days as a presidential candidate. And she was not wearing a pantsuit -- although she mentioned her special affection for Glamour because the magazine liked her extensive and colorful collection of them. Instead, she wore a shirtwaist evening gown that, under the spotlights, had the sheen of a coffee bean. It had a full skirt and three-quarter sleeves and was paired with a matching necklace of gemstones.

As a surprise, Clinton, and the entire audience, was serenaded by "American Idol" winner David Cook, who can apparently claim the senator as one of his biggest fans even though "he did get more votes than I did," she said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111303037.html?hpid=entnews

http://in.ibtimes.com/data/articleimgs/6269-l-sen-hillary-rodham-clinton-d-n-y-speaks-after-being-honored-at-the-glamour-women-of-the-year.jpg



http://in.ibtimes.com/data/articleimgs/6270-actress-america-ferrera-and-senator-hillary-clinton-attend-the-2008-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards.jpg

Paneru
Nov 22nd, 2008, 02:11 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06E45T2elp6ki/610x.jpg

Hillary Clinton attends a rededication ceremony of the
Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York, November 11, 2008.

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/11.jpg

:hearts:

Paneru
Nov 22nd, 2008, 02:25 AM
Hey guys these are great vids!

Some clips from 95' in China on Women's Right's
being Human Right's and we see how bold Hillary
was and is.

JqbH_G-1go0&feature=related

YFKdZ3OnsMY


Here is the whole Speech!
Sk3nzRt7p94

Paneru
Nov 22nd, 2008, 02:30 AM
I love youtube!

More great vid findings!

l0Jrdvayjrw

8EGranwN_uk

In The Zone
Nov 22nd, 2008, 02:37 AM
Great finds Paneru. Thanks. :)

Paneru
Nov 23rd, 2008, 04:31 AM
Great finds Paneru. Thanks. :)

:yeah:

Paneru
Nov 23rd, 2008, 04:32 AM
Hillary plays hardball

The first sign of friction in the Obama camp as Mrs Clinton demands - and gets - a purge of her critics before accepting Secretary of State role

By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Sunday, 23 November 2008

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00088/9304221_88621t.jpg

Before Hillary Clinton has been formally offered the job as Secretary of State, a purge of Barack Obama's top foreign policy team has begun.

The advisers who helped trash the former First Lady's foreign policy credentials on the campaign trail are being brutally shunted aside, as the price of her accepting the job of being the public face of America to the world. In negotiations with Mr Obama this week before agreeing to take the job, she demanded and received assurances that she alone should appoint staff to the State Department. She also got assurances that she will have direct access to the President and will not have to go through his foreign policy advisers on the National Security Council, which is where many of her critics in the Obama team are expected to end up.

The first victims of Mrs Clinton's anticipated appointment will be those who defended Mr Obama's flanks on the campaign trail. By mocking Mrs Clinton's claims to have landed under sniper fire in Bosnia or pouring scorn on her much-ballyhooed claim to have visited 80 countries as First Lady they successfully deflected the damaging charge that he is a lightweight on international issues.

Foremost among the victims of the purges is her old Yale Law School buddy Greg Craig, a man who more than anyone led the rescue of his presidency starting the very night Kenneth Starr's lurid report into the squalid details of the former president's sex scandal with Monica Lewinsky were published on the internet in 1998. Despite his long and loyal friendship with the Clintons, Mr Craig threw his lot in with Mr Obama at an early stage in the presidential election campaign. As if that betrayal to the cause of the Clinton restoration was not enough, Mr Craig did more to undermine Mrs Clinton's claims to be a foreign policy expert than anyone else in the some of the ugliest exchanges of the battle for the Democratic nomination.

Until this week he was poised to be the eminence grise of the State Department, organising as total revamp of America's troubled foreign policies on Mr Obama's behalf. Its turns out that Mrs Clinton's delay in accepting the president elect's offer to be his top foreign policy adviser had much to do with her negotiating the terms of the job and insisting on the right to choose her own state department staff and possibly even some of the plumb Ambassador postings. She wanted guarantees of direct access to the president – without having to go through his national security adviser. Above all she did not want to end up like Colin Powell who was completely out-manoeuvred by the hawkish Vice President Dick Cheney who imposed neo-conservative friends like John Bolton on the State Department and steered the US towards a policy of using torture to achieve its aims.

Mr Craig's crime was not so much that he enthusiastically backed Mr Obama for President and helped run his foreign policy advisory panel, it was his lacerating attacks on the putative Secretary of State's claims that she passed the "Commander-in-Chief test" as a foreign policy expert in the Clinton Administration. In a devastating memo of 11 March last, which he addressed "to interested parties," Mr Craig said: There is no reason to believe, however, that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration. She did not sit in on National Security Council meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy, nor did she have her own national security staff."

"She did not do any heavy-lifting with foreign governments, whether they were friendly or not. She never managed a foreign policy crisis, and there is no evidence to suggest that she participated in the decision-making that occurred in connection with any such crisis."

The memo went on to say that Mrs Clinton "never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue – not at 3 AM or at any other time of day." Earlier this week Mr Craig was tapped to become White House counsel, a totally anonymous position, and shunted him out of the line of fire from the Secretary of State.

A question remains about the fate of Susan Rice, the public face of Mr Obama's foreign policy throughout the campaign. She too had been expected to take a prominent position at the State department, but in a conference call with reporters during the campaign she ridiculed Mr Clinton's claims to foreign Policy experience.

She may now end up as Deputy national Security adviser to the president, in the expectation that she would be frozen out by Mrs Clinton at the State Department, a situation that does not augur well for the future.

While having to deal with political enemies fatally undermined Colin Power, "It would be dreadful if only Clinton loyalists worked at State and Obama loyalists at the N.S.C.," the National Security Council a Clinton adviser told the New York Times.

The line-up

Confirmed:

Secretary of Health and Human Services: Tom Daschle, 60, former Senate Democratic leader

Senior adviser: David Axelrod, 53, Obama's campaign strategist

Senior adviser: Valerie Jarrett, 52, Chicago business-woman

White House counsel: Greg Craig, 63, former counsel to Bill Clinton

Chief of staff: Rahm Emanuel, 49, Political director under Bill Clinton

Political director: Patrick Gaspard, 41, a New York labour official

White House press secretary: Robert Gibbs, 37, political consultant

Vice President's chief of staff: Ron Klain, 31, former chief of staff of vice president Al Gore

Confirmed by sources pending vetting and formal announcement:

Secretary of State: Hillary Clinton, 61

Treasury Secretary: Timothy Geithner, 47

National Security Adviser: James Jones, 64

Attorney General: Eric Holder, 57

Head of Homeland Security: Janet Napolitano, 50

Commerce Department Secretary: Bill Richardson, 61

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hillary-plays-hardball-1031238.html

Haute
Nov 23rd, 2008, 04:52 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/13/AR2008111303037.html?hpid=entnews

http://in.ibtimes.com/data/articleimgs/6269-l-sen-hillary-rodham-clinton-d-n-y-speaks-after-being-honored-at-the-glamour-women-of-the-year.jpg



http://in.ibtimes.com/data/articleimgs/6270-actress-america-ferrera-and-senator-hillary-clinton-attend-the-2008-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards.jpg

Is there by chance any video of her Glamour speech? :)