PDA

View Full Version : Very Fast Stadium Court Surface - OG Your Thoughts


Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:21 PM
Does anyone but me think that this hardcourt is playing awfully fast? Who's games besides the WS, do you think this fast court would benefit. That's in fact if you agree that the court is very fast.

Uranium
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:23 PM
The courts are very fast, the men's matches have been really boring because of it.

Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:25 PM
The courts are very fast, the men's matches have been really boring because of it.

I know :eek: Yesterday when I was watching Serena play Sam, my eyes could hardly keep up with the pace of the ball. I don't think Wimbledon is as fast as this court.

Dodoboy.
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Jie Zheng, but she said it doesn't benefit her.

A lot of the chinese girls will benefit from this.

These are the same court as USO and same balls.

Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:28 PM
Jie Zheng, but she said it doesn't benefit her.

A lot of the chinese girls will benefit from this.

These are the same court as USO and same balls.

I know the surface is the same. But, what I'm saying is that it's playing as fast as a grass court.

Olórin
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:32 PM
I know the surface is the same. But, what I'm saying is that it's playing as fast as a grass court.

For the last few years the USO has been playing faster than grass if you ask me (plus the grass getting slower and slower).

I would agree that this is playing faster than grass, let's hope the USO is too :drool:

Dave.
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:32 PM
I know :eek: Yesterday when I was watching Serena play Sam, my eyes could hardly keep up with the pace of the ball. I don't think Wimbledon is as fast as this court.

That is sad and unfortunately true.

The court is extremely fast and obviously suits Venus very well. She is the firm favourite for the Gold medal now, with Serena the 2nd favourite. It's tough to say who else it would favour as most of the top players are out and the majority prefer medium-paced surfaces.

The Dawntreader
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:33 PM
This court would've suited Lindsay to the ground, shame she couldnt play:sad:

It's all about the William sisters when the court is this fast. Reminds me of the speed at Filderstadt, even if it was in doors. The balls just seem to skid off the court here.

I can tell you who it wont suit- Safina

Her movement and large swings on the ball will be more exploited here :shrug:

Venus+Serena#1fan
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:53 PM
I wouldn't say Venus is the firm favourite.

Serena's had a consistantly better year and she played her A game in the last match.

Pengwin
Aug 12th, 2008, 05:55 PM
I haven't noticed it being that fast, but maybe that's why Venus and Serena played so well today. Anyway it will favour them :lol:

darrinbaker00
Aug 12th, 2008, 06:17 PM
I know the surface is the same. But, what I'm saying is that it's playing as fast as a grass court.
That's because they're brand new courts. They'll slow down over time.

Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 06:19 PM
That's because they're brand new courts. They'll slow down over time.

Oh okay. But, you do agree that the court is extremely fast, right?

Dodoboy.
Aug 12th, 2008, 06:46 PM
I don't think super fast courts suit Serena.

OsloErik
Aug 12th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Yes, I agree it's playing very fast. The men's matches have been very boring as a result of it. I wonder if Roddick regrets the choice now.

For the women, I'd keep Azarenka in mind as a very dangerous opponent for Venus. The Olympics are exactly the kind of event that could jumpstart her career, too. She probably won't win the whole thing (how weird would that be?), but if she can delude herself into thinking a medal (esp. Bronze, where you end on a win) is like a title, she can trick the monkey off her back. Also keep Safarova in mind for the Bronze match, as she's in a cushy draw section and hits hard and flat.

Intereting that Venus and Serena come from the two deepest sections of the draw. There very well could be two odd medalists instead of just the one.

AcesHigh
Aug 12th, 2008, 08:48 PM
It suits Venus and Fed very well and I'm loving it. It benefits Serena too, but I'm not sure it would favor her in a matchup against someone like Venus. The faster the court, the better advantage Vee has. I really expect those two in the final now however.

RenaSlam.
Aug 12th, 2008, 08:58 PM
All-Williams Final.

darrinbaker00
Aug 12th, 2008, 09:24 PM
Oh okay. But, you do agree that the court is extremely fast, right?
Yes, they are the fastest outdoor hard courts I have ever seen, but the more footsteps, tennis balls and rain drops hit them, the slower they'll get.

darrinbaker00
Aug 12th, 2008, 09:27 PM
It suits Venus and Fed very well and I'm loving it. It benefits Serena too, but I'm not sure it would favor her in a matchup against someone like Venus. The faster the court, the better advantage Vee has. I really expect those two in the final now however.
Fed's pimp is looking rather comfortable on these courts too, you know. ;)

dagamezbest
Aug 12th, 2008, 09:35 PM
These courts are extremely fast. There really isnt need of much of a game plan but hit the ball out wide and into the open court since its hard to track down any ball on the run. This definiteley suits feds game. Venus should be in heaven as well...she played a funky match earlier mainly since I dont think she is used to playing on courts this fast anymore so she has to readjust everything in her game far as timing. But if she gets it down it will definitely be her and Serena in the final. I give Venus the advantage because I dont see Serena running down all of Venus's shots.

njnetswill
Aug 12th, 2008, 09:49 PM
If only Sprem was here. :sad:

Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:18 PM
I was rooting for a Venus win at Wimby. So, if they make it an All-William final here at the OG, I'll be rooting for Serena, since she doesn't have a gold in singles.

Why do you guys think that Serena does not favor really fast surfaces, as opposed to Vee?

Edited to add:
I haven't seen Dinara play. How's she doing on this quick surface. Wimbledon wasn't very kind to her, as I recall.

soomaal
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:35 PM
These courts are extremely fast. There really isnt need of much of a game plan but hit the ball out wide and into the open court since its hard to track down any ball on the run. This definiteley suits feds game. Venus should be in heaven as well...she played a funky match earlier mainly since I dont think she is used to playing on courts this fast anymore so she has to readjust everything in her game far as timing. But if she gets it down it will definitely be her and Serena in the final. I give Venus the advantage because I dont see Serena running down all of Venus's shots.

:yeah::yeah::yeah: Couldn't have said it better myself.

soomaal
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Fed's pimp is looking rather comfortable on these courts too, you know. ;)

The official PIMP destroyed Hewitt today, to my joy.:lol:

I think this will benefit Venus the most, but I too wonder how Dinara will fare on this surface??

Denise4925
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Who is Fed's pimp?

Mightymirza
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:44 PM
haha well I think recently USO surface is faster than wimbledon! Its just the bounce and movement that makes grass a bigger challenge! But I love the fast hard court :drool: faster the better!

Dodoboy.
Aug 12th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Who is Fed's pimp?

http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/4818150

VRULES
Aug 12th, 2008, 11:25 PM
I was rooting for a Venus win at Wimby. So, if they make it an All-William final here at the OG, I'll be rooting for Serena, since she doesn't have a gold in singles.

Why do you guys think that Serena does not favor really fast surfaces, as opposed to Vee?

Edited to add:
I haven't seen Dinara play. How's she doing on this quick surface. Wimbledon wasn't very kind to her, as I recall.

First thing, Venus has better movement and defense as of now. Just a fact, I love Serena but she isn't in her 2002-2004 shape. She's in better shape now than last year, but the knee is never gonna let her move like she used to.

Secondly, Venus has a better record on the summer USO harcourts than Serena in both her Career and since 2003. Serena has better results on the slower hardcourts AO and Miami than on the faster summer ones. But when you look at a summer USO(series) hardcourt, especially one that is playing really fast which Beijing is, if you try to look to give an advantge of who the court favors between the Williams sisters it def. has to be Venus.

PS Serena could show up in AO Final form and blow Venus of the court if Venus doesn't bring it, so you never know, also if they were to meet whoever is playing better going in is always gonna be the favorite no matter what, but surface wise faster courts favor Venus, slower Serena.

They still have to get there, but a faster court def. favors Venus, Serena, and Zheng.


Serena Summer HC results:

2004:

LA - Final - Lost to Davenport who Venus retired against having lead 5-0 in the first

San Diego - QF - Lost to Zvonereva

USO - QF - Capriati...well you know

2005:

Toronto - RD16 - Penneta

USO - RD16 - Lost to Venus

2006:

Cincinnati - SF Zvonareva

LA - SF Jankovic

USO - RD16 Mauresmo (def her best tournament though)

2007:

USO - QF - Henin

Venus Summer HC results:

2004:

Stanford - F - Lost to Davenport 7-6 in the third

LA - Ret. to Davenport after dominating in first set before losing 8 games and visibly not moving

USO - RD16 - Lost to Davenport (earliest lost at USO EVER)

2005:

Stanford - Final - Lost to Clijsters after going no stop for 2 weeks after WImby

USO - QF - Lost to Clijster who dominated the HC's all year after being up a set and a break

2006

DNP

2007

Fed Cup - Def. Chaky & Petrova

San Diego - QF - Lost to Chaky after having MP

USO - SF - giving Henin her hardest match all tourny despite no days rest and having the toughest draw

So while Serena has more HC tournaments than Venus since 2003, Venus has performed better over this stretch of the year on the fast hardcourts.

Just my opinion...I still want Serena to get the gold though.

Denise4925
Aug 13th, 2008, 12:33 AM
Thanks for that insightful analysis, VRules. Do you agree darrin?

Serenidad.
Aug 13th, 2008, 12:41 AM
http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/4818150

Love that you posted a raw picture instead of typing Nadal. :rolls: It just adds effect.

imo, I would have posted a picture of the RG 2008 final scoreboard.

Thanx4nothin
Aug 13th, 2008, 12:48 AM
All-Williams Final.

Would love that, and everyone is leaning that way seemingly. Just want to go on record saying i dont see that at all, and if it does i wont have pie on my face because I'll be elated. I can see Venus losing at any stage and Serena likewise.

darrinbaker00
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:27 AM
Thanks for that insightful analysis, VRules. Do you agree darrin?
With everything except the knee part, yes. While there's no such thing as a "minor" surgery, Serena's procedure wasn't nearly as serious as Lindsay Davenport's, and she got herself back into top shape (for her, anyway) and reclaimed the #1 ranking after her knee surgery. I don't think Serena rehabbed her knee properly, and the extra weight she's been carrying since then doesn't help. It's because of Serena's relatively limited mobility that a faster hard court isn't exactly her best friend (although, to be fair, I'd take 80-90 percent of Serena Williams over 100 percent of every other player who isn't her sister).

darrinbaker00
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Who is Fed's pimp?
http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/4818150
Thank you. ;)

young_gunner913
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:35 AM
I agree. The court is super fast. When I first saw a match on it, the point only last like 4 seconds and I was like "holy crap". I think it definitely will suit Venus' game and Serena's serve.

kwilliams
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:35 AM
I was rooting for a Venus win at Wimby. So, if they make it an All-William final here at the OG, I'll be rooting for Serena, since she doesn't have a gold in singles.

Why do you guys think that Serena does not favor really fast surfaces, as opposed to Vee?

Edited to add:
I haven't seen Dinara play. How's she doing on this quick surface. Wimbledon wasn't very kind to her, as I recall.

Me too. I wanted Venus to win at Wimbledon but now I want Serena to win Olympic Gold (though I do hope Venus makes the final and takes silver). I want Serena to get this medal really badly, the only thing of worth missing from her trophy cabinet.

Would love that, and everyone is leaning that way seemingly. Just want to go on record saying i dont see that at all, and if it does i wont have pie on my face because I'll be elated. I can see Venus losing at any stage and Serena likewise.

I'm not counting my chickens either, though I do think Serena has a great shot at the final. I think public opinion is similar to how it was at Wimbledon and they rightfully made it through to the final. I hope the same can happen in Bejing.

AcesHigh
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:41 AM
Nadal is looking awesome but if Fed had his guts and mental strength, along with a better gameplan, he would be a favorite against Rafa on this surface.

However, Fed has none of those, so expect a straight-set beatdown if they meet in the final IMHO.

Zoeki
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:48 AM
Some players says it's playing as fast as AO.
After the rain,it becomes a bit slower.

darrinbaker00
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Nadal is looking awesome but if Fed had his guts and mental strength, along with a better gameplan, he would be a favorite against Rafa on this surface.
Yep, just like he was at Wimbledon.
However, Fed has none of those, so expect a straight-set beatdown if they meet in the final IMHO.
You should expect that anyway. Nadal is just that much better than Federer right now. Period.

cartmancop
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:44 AM
Perfect surface for Venus. So fast that all she has to do is react, less time for things to break down :D IF she plays well, I think its her tournament to win or lose, but that is always the question with Vee.

AcesHigh
Aug 13th, 2008, 08:50 AM
You should expect that anyway. Nadal is just that much better than Federer right now. Period.

Game-wise? Not at all. Federer has the better game. Better forehand, backhand, more versatility on both sides, better serve, better return, better net game.

Where Nadal kills Federer is that he is 10x mentally stronger, tougher, plays his game to near-perfection and physically is a beast. And then there's the obvious matchup difficulties Nadal presents for Fed. His speed, penetrating forehand with ridiculous spin that goes to Fed's weakest shot, etc.

Nadal is obviously no chump on hardcourts. He can hit as hard as anyone on tour, flatten his strokes, paint the lines, and his serve has improved tremendously. But on this surface, Fed should have the advantage on paper. Unfortunately, matches arent played on paper. When they're facing each other across the net, Rafa from now on will always be the favorite.

Anyway, this is a WTA forum, not MTF

tennnisfannn
Aug 13th, 2008, 09:39 AM
at this point is not the surface that is troubling Federer, have you noticed he has lost to Karlovic and Simon Giles in the last tournies coming inot the olympics. If thye meet in the final adv. Rafa

Dodoboy.
Aug 13th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Love that you posted a raw picture instead of typing Nadal. :rolls: It just adds effect.

imo, I would have posted a picture of the RG 2008 final scoreboard.

That would be :hearts:

if i could find it!

Shinjiro
Aug 13th, 2008, 12:37 PM
Yep, just like he was at Wimbledon.
Well actually, one shouldn't give Fed that much edge over Rafa ( if any at all ) on today's grass. :shrug:

Where Nadal kills Federer is that he is 10x mentally stronger, tougher, plays his game to near-perfection and physically is a beast. And then there's the obvious matchup difficulties Nadal presents for Fed. His speed, penetrating forehand with ridiculous spin that goes to Fed's weakest shot, etc.
Not that hard to play near "perfect" when you play that safe. :angel:

elenadrocks
Aug 13th, 2008, 01:56 PM
all i wanna know is does it suit dementieva?
shes a fast mover so i think it should right? but i havent seen her name being mentioned

MyskinaManiac
Aug 13th, 2008, 04:00 PM
I think it would suit ED, however, I think more would agree that her forms building towards a big US open, that's why she hasn't been mentioned. Given her previous form on the US hardcourts, I think she could give Serena a rattle, and I think most expect her to also.

Denise4925
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Where Nadal kills Federer is that he is 10x mentally stronger, tougher, plays his game to near-perfection and physically is a beast. And then there's the obvious matchup difficulties Nadal presents for Fed. His speed, penetrating forehand with ridiculous spin that goes to Fed's weakest shot, etc.

Nadal is obviously no chump on hardcourts. He can hit as hard as anyone on tour, flatten his strokes, paint the lines, and his serve has improved tremendously.

I'm confused Aces, you say that Nadal has a penetrating forehand with a "ridiculous spin" that goes to Fed's weakest shot, but in the next paragraph you talk about him being able to flatten his strokes. On this super fast surface, don't you think that "ridiculous spin" on his forehand will hinder him against Fed on this surface. Don't strokes need to be flat to be effective on this type of surface as opposed to slower surfaces like clay, which is why Vee and Serena are more effective on faster surfaces because they hit the ball so flat and hard?

Also, regarding Serena being better on slower hardcourts, is the AO and Miami so much slower than the US Open or do they just make the ball take a higher bounce, which is better suited to Serena's game? Even though it's fast, doesn't the grass at Wimby make the ball bounce higher too?

Also, I've seen the ball on this surface bounce pretty high. Is that a normal thing on this type of surface or were people hitting semi-moon balls? :lol:

Expat
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I'm confused Aces, you say that Nadal has a penetrating forehand with a "ridiculous spin" that goes to Fed's weakest shot, but in the next paragraph you talk about him being able to flatten his strokes. On this super fast surface, don't you think that "ridiculous spin" on his forehand will hinder him against Fed on this surface. Don't strokes need to be flat to be effective on this type of surface as opposed to slower surfaces like clay, which is why Vee and Serena are more effective on faster surfaces because they hit the ball so flat and hard?

Also, regarding Serena being better on slower hardcourts, is the AO and Miami so much slower than the US Open or do they just make the ball take a higher bounce, which is better suited to Serena's game? Even though it's fast, doesn't the grass at Wimby make the ball bounce higher too?

Also, I've seen the ball on this surface bounce pretty high. Is that a normal thing on this type of surface or were people hitting semi-moon balls? :lol:
the bounce is always lower on grass
whether its faster or slower than hard court

Denise4925
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:23 PM
the bounce is always lower on grass
whether its faster or slower than hard court

Okay thanks lalit, I couldn't remember.

VRULES
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:43 PM
I'm confused Aces, you say that Nadal has a penetrating forehand with a "ridiculous spin" that goes to Fed's weakest shot, but in the next paragraph you talk about him being able to flatten his strokes. On this super fast surface, don't you think that "ridiculous spin" on his forehand will hinder him against Fed on this surface. Don't strokes need to be flat to be effective on this type of surface as opposed to slower surfaces like clay, which is why Vee and Serena are more effective on faster surfaces because they hit the ball so flat and hard?

Also, regarding Serena being better on slower hardcourts, is the AO and Miami so much slower than the US Open or do they just make the ball take a higher bounce, which is better suited to Serena's game? Even though it's fast, doesn't the grass at Wimby make the ball bounce higher too?

Also, I've seen the ball on this surface bounce pretty high. Is that a normal thing on this type of surface or were people hitting semi-moon balls? :lol:
On average Nadal has some tremendous spin on his shots, more so than anyone else. They showed some stats of RPM of Nadal's ball vs. Federer's and it was so much in favor of Nadal. THAT being said, what has been a big part of his rapid improvement on grass (and HCs) has been this ability to flatten the ball out. While he usually hits with a lot of spin that will bounce up on a court over a flat shot (grass will take spins, particularly slice very well, topspin on clay only makes a high bounce higher, and the AO hardcourts bounce higher than the USO swing's). He has made great strides to flatten out his groundstrokes over the past few years, and because of his tremendous strength the shots can be leathal, particularly since it can be surprising given the heavy shots he usually hits.
Yes, AO and Miami are the two slower of the major HC tournaments, however they are not quite as slow as clay, but are distinctively slower than the USO. Just like Agassi's two best tournaments were AO & Miami, the slower court really suited his game (bc he liked to take the ball early standing right on top of the baseline, he could be robbed of time on faster courts, although his stellar hand-eye coordination help him still perform well no matter what).
Grass while maybe not as fast as it used to be, and it seems slower than (or about the same as) the USO series HC has a much lower bounce than any other court. This is why during Wimbledon the announcers make a point to show how players "get down to the ball" or "stay down through their shots"...especially Venus because of her height which would usually be at a disadvantage having to stay lower.
Also grass, being a natural service, doesn't have a consistent bounce. It can change and skid and jump irregularly. This is why Venus' ability to just react makes her so great on grass, bc it alleviates her propensity to have breakdowns in form.
So the harcourts here provide a fast service, helping people with big serves first and foremost, then people with quickly reflexes, and speed.
This should help both WS...and thinking about it this should be a good court for Lena, bc it's the same as the USO which she performs well at. She is also good at absorbing her opponent’s pace and has a great return (which is her version of having a big serve). Her match with Serena will probably come down to 1) Serena’s serve…will Lena get consistent looks at second serves, and 2) whether Rena can punish Lena’s serve. Other than that it looks pretty even (Rena could blow her off the court, or be passive and Lena could take control).

Denise4925
Aug 13th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Wow VRules, thanks. :worship:

Hey folks we have a surface expert in da house! :rocker: