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View Full Version : Why isn't Serena winning the slams?


supergrunt
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:40 PM
She's a heavy favorite to win every time she enters a slam.

LudwigDvorak
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:44 PM
Because you're her fan. Kill yourself, Serena Slam Mach 2 commences.

Win/win.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:49 PM
She is not the best player

Rankings don´t lie

sweetpeas
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:50 PM
?????Can"t win them all!THERE a time and place for everything...Serena still has time,to win many many slams....As long as she healthy.

Tennisation
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:51 PM
Aside from the losses to Justine last year, the ones she lost this year to JJ and Srebotnik are unacceptable. I'm not sure what the hell happened at the OZ open. She was doing well and serving well up until the quarters winning everything in straight sets. Then she just lost to JJ without putting up much of a fight as if she didn't even want to be on court and didn't even look like she cared. Same goes for Venus losing to Ana in the quarters at the OZ open. Sure Ana played a good match, but it wasn't anything that Venus can't handle, but nothing was working for her that day, her volleys were some of the most hideous I've ever seen her hit even worse than Sharapova. Serena losing to Srebotnik at the French was definitely unexpected. She was comming in as the favorite having won Family Circle Cup and was on a hot streak. Sometimes I'm not sure what's going on with her, but my best guess is that these days, Serena relies on her serve way too much to win her cheap points. That does not translate well on clay as it will not be as effective which forces her to get into long rallies, and we all know she has not looked sharp in long rallies. Take Wimbledon for example, everytime she's forced into a long rally with Venus, she's doomed. Because she is winning quick points off of serve and return of serve, she expends less energy and does not feel like she's out of shape, but when she's drawn into a long rally, you can tell she's physically not capable. She's just as much in denial about her fitness as a lot of her fans are.

miffedmax
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:51 PM
She never recovered from losing in the Kremlin Cup finals last year.

LudwigDvorak
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:54 PM
She never recovered from losing in the Kremlin Cup finals last year.

Your ability to include Elena into any conversation astonishes me. How do you do it? :rolls:

I love you, Max. :lol:

Wilson_07
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:57 PM
She is not the best player

Rankings donīt lie

reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:

sweetpeas
Jul 9th, 2008, 08:59 PM
?????Can"t win them all!THERE a time and place for everything...Serena still has time,to win many many slams....As long as she healthy.

CoolDude7
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:00 PM
She loses focus during matches(can play very well, then errorena appears)! Similiar to Venus in the past. I think it may have something to do with not having as much desire as in the past!

Mashafaaaaan
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:01 PM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:

Very good point:worship:

Expat
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:06 PM
because her movement is shit

Wilson_07
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:06 PM
She loses focus during matches(can play very well, then errorena appears)! Similiar to Venus in the past. I think it may have something to do with not having as much desire as in the past!

i think it just doesn't only have to do with her desire, i think she lost a few matches she thought she would win and because of that she just became more nervous going into matches...that's what i think...she realized that there are people who are able to beat her and she's not winning everything as easy as she did in the past...and you have to mention her injuries...they're always a big factor...right after a big injury you're not able to play at the same level and have to work yourself into a good rythm again

Tennisation
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:06 PM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes::lol: the irony that exposes one's stupidity

Uranium
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:09 PM
because she loses, she can't stay fit and can't stay focused. Not being Fit(AO) and Losing Focus(FO) and getting outplayed and losing focus(Wimbledon).

V-MAC
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:10 PM
Because her footwork has become too sloppy.

hankqq
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:10 PM
She'll win some more in the future. No one can win all the time. At least she's won a few titles this year. Baby steps.

Dodoboy.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:21 PM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:

:lol:

Serenidad.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:23 PM
Moodswingrena. Footworkrena. Complacentrena. Pushrena. Sometimesaggressiverena?

vwfan
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:27 PM
she's is living in the Serena 2000-1 era. Tons of talent, but not able to control her emotions on the court.

In addition, she expects too much and has gotten down on herself. She is going to have to work hard to get back close to the level she was at in 2002-3. The means greater fitness. Other players won't just cede her the match the way many did during her era of dominance. And she cannot rely solely on her serve and return game, particularly on fast courts and grass, if she is not fit and able to move into position to strike the ball with greatest effect.

The good news for her is that she still has the game that bests almost everyone else on tour. And she is showing the motivation, so everyone should watch out!

slamchamp
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:28 PM
typical supergrunt thread:hearts:

hankqq
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:46 PM
she's is living in the Serena 2000-1 era. Tons of talent, but not able to control her emotions on the court.

In addition, she expects too much and has gotten down on herself. She is going to work hard to get back close to the level she was at in 2002-3. Other players won't just cede her the match the way many did during her era of dominance. The good news for her is that she still has the game that best almost everyone else on tour. And she is showing the motivation, so everyone should watch out!


I agree. Watching the Wimbledon final, I couldn't believe how down on herself she got after giving back that break in the first set! It's not like she was behind when Venus broke for 4-all...:rolleyes: From then on, her attitude was just so poor. Even in the second set when she again went up an early break, her mood stayed negative. When Venus broke back in that set, I know it was all over for Serena.

winone23
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:57 PM
It's only a matter of time before Serena wins another slam.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Consistency! The theory that I've always offered is because of the chronic nature of her knee injury, she has to limit and be very judicious about her practice/training time, particularly the high impact, plyometric type stuff.

This means that "grooving" her strokes under strenuous training conditions is going to always present a hobson's choice. Train as much as necessary and risk a tendonitus(sp) flare up or limit the training and hope your strokes hold up or you can end points quickly enough for that weakness not to be exploited. jmho.

supergrunt
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:07 PM
it feels like she should have two every year

Shepster
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:31 PM
It's a viscious circle and to do with her fitness. She can't play week-in, week-out without getting injured. This means she's selective about which tournaments she enters giving herself the best shot to do well in the ones she wants to. This means while she comes into tournaments healthy she doesn't have the match-fitness needed to sustain a challenge through to the finish with any semblance of regularity. The only way to get that match-fitness is to play more, but then the cycle repeats...

SV_Fan
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:32 PM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:


dont talk about Rafael Nadal like that.

But anyways I think Serena can still win slams. But everything like they said is up to Serena. If Serena wants to winthe USO then she'll say Maria, Ana, Jelena "move your wanna be vogue model a*ses out the way that title is mine." Simple as that

Venus did that at wimbledon and you see she has 5 titles.

tonybotz
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:26 PM
baby re-re wants it too much. she gets tight and her footwork suffers. its a case of extreme pressure.

Optima
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Footwork. She doesn't move that great. Her groundstrokes aren't as dominating as they used to be. More and more players are able to neutralize points against her now.

Dawson.
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:34 PM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:

:haha: OWNED!!!


back to serena - i think she just has the wrong mind set. she thinks she is the best and she should win every match she plays. and when someone is outplaying her she just breaks down

jujufreak
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:36 PM
after Wimbly '03, she only won two more slams, the AO '05 and the AO '07... slams when the best player wasn't competing, so I guess she'll have to wait again until the best players aren't able to compete, due to injuries or other troubles...

Tennisstar86
Jul 10th, 2008, 12:19 AM
heavily favored? SErena has been heavily favored for 1 tournament since 2004.... and that was this years french because she was the only former champion....

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 10th, 2008, 12:43 AM
after Wimbly '03, she only won two more slams, the AO '05 and the AO '07... slams when the best player wasn't competing, so I guess she'll have to wait again until the best players aren't able to compete, due to injuries or other troubles...

Your name says it all. :rolleyes: :wavey:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 10th, 2008, 12:46 AM
baby re-re wants it too much. she gets tight and her footwork suffers. its a case of extreme pressure.

I think there's some real legitimacy to that too. Serena, at her best, is calm, cool and collected. Check her out EARLY in her Serena Slam form.

sammy01
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Because her footwork has become too sloppy.

bingo! she still moves pretty well but her footwork around the ball is heavy and sluggish most of the time. the contact point on her forehand moves so much because shes not in perfect position. it used to be 1 of her greatest strengths her movement around the ball now its the most sloppy part of her game. i remember the serena that wouldn't plant her feet untill she was just about to make contact with the ball, now she is stood still before its bounced!

AcesHigh
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:17 AM
Put it this way, if she was moving even a fraction as well as Serena pre-Wimby 2003, she'd be doing much better at slams. Movement and footwork are a BIG factor.

LightWarrior
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:30 AM
It's all about the nerves. Interesting how dominant she was against Venus during the first 4 games. And then collapsed. I think those defeats - 3 times in a row - against Henin has done some serious damage in her mind. She should have won all the slams last year (except for Wimbledon where she was injured), should have won RG and Wimbledon. Tennistically she is the best. But she is very emotional nowadays. Has nothing to do with her level of play. She should do yoga, hire a therapist. It has been a big waste.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:33 AM
after Wimbly '03, she only won two more slams, the AO '05 and the AO '07... slams when the best player wasn't competing, so I guess she'll have to wait again until the best players aren't able to compete, due to injuries or other troubles...

lol

mdterp01
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:36 AM
reading your signature makes it hard to believe that this comes out of your mouth :rolleyes:

:lol::haha::tape::wavey: GOOD ONE!!

Apoleb
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:04 AM
"I really don't feel like talking about it. I don't want to get fined. That's the only reason I came. can't afford the fines because I keep losing." :hug:

ladydiana
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:06 AM
It's not as easy as people think to keep winning slam after slam. The women's field is tougher than it was from 2000-2003. Considering that Serena has had injuries and othe outside interest she's not doing bad at all.


Just think about it. Jelena and all of these other girls play tournament after tournament, and they've been doing it for year after year, and they haven't managed to get one title under their belts. And Ana just finally won her first title, but fizzled after that.


Serena's last title was in 2005. That wasn't long ago considering she really hasn't played that much tennis. The question should be why can't these other girls who have been playing all of these tournaments been able to win one title since they are suppose to be so good and they are the changing of the guard.

jujufreak
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:13 AM
I think there's some real legitimacy to that too. Serena, at her best, is calm, cool and collected. Check her out EARLY in her Serena Slam form.

stop living in 2002 :wavey:

mckyle.
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:14 AM
Because you're her fan. Kill yourself, Serena Slam Mach 2 commences.

Win/win.

Cosign.

jujufreak
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:18 AM
It's all about the nerves. Interesting how dominant she was against Venus during the first 4 games. And then collapsed. I think those defeats - 3 times in a row - against Henin has done some serious damage in her mind. She should have won all the slams last year (except for Wimbledon where she was injured), should have won RG and Wimbledon. Tennistically she is the best. But she is very emotional nowadays. Has nothing to do with her level of play. She should do yoga, hire a therapist. It has been a big waste.

hmm, why should she have won all the slams last year :confused: those three QF results clearly show Justine was the better player.

Tennistically she is the best :bolt: :tape: :haha: :spit: :smash: :lol:

dream on :wavey:

Tennisation
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:26 AM
I think there's some real legitimacy to that too. Serena, at her best, is calm, cool and collected. Check her out EARLY in her Serena Slam form.Have you tried looking in reverse psychology? We tend to think that a player's emotion affect their game. Perhaps she's calm and collected because she was playing well. Now that she's not playing well, she gets frustrated, so it is her game that affects her emotions.

jujufreak
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:28 AM
Just think about it. Jelena and all of these other girls play tournament after tournament, and they've been doing it for year after year, and they haven't managed to get one title under their belts. And Ana just finally won her first title, but fizzled after that.

Serena's last title was in 2005. That wasn't long ago considering she really hasn't played that much tennis. The question should be why can't these other girls who have been playing all of these tournaments been able to win one title since they are suppose to be so good and they are the changing of the guard.


Serena kinda fizzled after her first GS title too, didn't she?

Her last GS title was in 2007 (remember the Sharapova thrashing?)

Answer to your question: most of them are mental midgets, with few variety in their game, only used to bash the ball from the baseline, which is why they don't excel on grass and/or clay. So for those who are willing to change their game plan, it takes time to do so.

If you just look at the past Wimbledon draws, you always see the same names coming back. Of these names, Serena and Venus were the only ones still playing and in form, so it's no surprise they ended up meeting each other in the finals. None of the other girls have as much experience as they have and they can't compensate it (yet) with great grass skils either.

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:37 AM
"I really don't feel like talking about it. I don't want to get fined. That's the only reason I came. can't afford the fines because I keep losing." :hug:

Ugh. That was so pathetic. :o

jujufreak
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:57 AM
Ugh. That was so pathetic. :o

It was, indeed. Just compare it with Maria's great reaction after the YEC final of last year :worship:

Geisha
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:59 AM
It was, indeed. Just compare it with Maria's great reaction after the YEC final of last year :worship:

The YEC final was Maria's first good showing in like, five months...and she wasn't even directly entered.

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:00 AM
It was, indeed. Just compare it with Maria's great reaction after the YEC final of last year :worship:

I'm not too sure if sarcasm played a part in that last statement. ;)

slamchamp
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:03 AM
I'm not too sure if sarcasm played a part in that last statement. ;)naah I don't think it was sarcasm, generally juju fans hate the williams , not maria

Geisha
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:03 AM
It's all about the nerves. Interesting how dominant she was against Venus during the first 4 games. And then collapsed. I think those defeats - 3 times in a row - against Henin has done some serious damage in her mind. She should have won all the slams last year (except for Wimbledon where she was injured), should have won RG and Wimbledon. Tennistically she is the best. But she is very emotional nowadays. Has nothing to do with her level of play. She should do yoga, hire a therapist. It has been a big waste.

I don't agree. I think the loss Serena was "truly" upset about was the French Open one. The other two were unfortunate. After the US Open, Serena got the hint that she actually has to play a lot of tournaments to improve, and that's what she's been doing throughout this year. Plus, she beat Justine 6-2 6-0 earlier in the year, so any doubts she had against her before are gone now.

Serena is the best tennis player. She isn't the best grass court player. So, she lost to Venus. She played awkward tennis at the Australian Open, which is the GS I believe she should have won. People have off days like at the French Open, so I don't know...

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:04 AM
naah I don't think it was sarcasm, generally juju fans hate the williams , not maria

Oh, all right. Well, jujufreak, I agree. :)

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:07 AM
It was, indeed. Just compare it with Maria's great reaction after the YEC final of last year :worship:

Serena's not fake like Maria... and she clearly doesn't suffer from her loser mentalitiy.

slamchamp
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:09 AM
Serena's not fake like Maria... and she clearly doesn't suffer from her loser mentalitiy.
Serena?

Geisha
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Serena kinda fizzled after her first GS title too, didn't she?

Her last GS title was in 2007 (remember the Sharapova thrashing?)

Answer to your question: most of them are mental midgets, with few variety in their game, only used to bash the ball from the baseline, which is why they don't excel on grass and/or clay. So for those who are willing to change their game plan, it takes time to do so.

If you just look at the past Wimbledon draws, you always see the same names coming back. Of these names, Serena and Venus were the only ones still playing and in form, so it's no surprise they ended up meeting each other in the finals. None of the other girls have as much experience as they have and they can't compensate it (yet) with great grass skils either.

Well, I think it is too early to say Ivanovic "fizzled". She won her GS on clay, and a couple weeks later she played on grass.

Also, I don't think Serena fizzled. After she won her first GS, she won the Grand Slam Cup, and then got injured. And, the following year, she won a title indoor and reached the Wimbledon SF - all in the midst of injuries.

LeRoy.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Serena at her best had nerves of steel. Almost as good as Seles pre-stabbing but since winning Miami 07, she gets too tight in matches and that stops her from playing her best. In the final against Venus if she had maintained the form at the start of the first set she would have won the match 6-2 6-1 or something like that but suddenly she got all tight and Venus sensed that and took advantage to win in straights. I would put this down to low self confidence on Serena's part.

mal
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Oh, all right. Well, jujufreak, I agree. :)

Don't lump the Williams fans together.
We all choose different players for different reasons.

I like Maria's power game, and think she has other shots.
I'm not a fan of Serena, but like Venus a lot, as a player. Never thought about her sexually tho.

Serena probably can't stand me, but then again, she has never heard of me.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:10 AM
It's all about the nerves. Interesting how dominant she was against Venus during the first 4 games. And then collapsed. I think those defeats - 3 times in a row - against Henin has done some serious damage in her mind. She should have won all the slams last year (except for Wimbledon where she was injured), should have won RG and Wimbledon. Tennistically she is the best. But she is very emotional nowadays. Has nothing to do with her level of play. She should do yoga, hire a therapist. It has been a big waste.

eh- I disagree

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:11 AM
Don't lump the Williams fans together.
We all choose different players for different reasons.

I like Maria's power game, and think she has other shots.
I'm not a fan of Serena, but like Venus a lot, as a player. Never thought about her sexually tho.

Serena probably can't stand me, but then again, she has never heard of me.

Oh, just shut up for once, will ya?

mal
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:12 AM
Serena at her best had nerves of steel. Almost as good as Seles pre-stabbing but since winning Miami 07, she gets too tight in matches and that stops her from playing her best. In the final against Venus if she had maintained the form at the start of the first set she would have won the match 6-2 6-1 or something like that but suddenly she got all tight and Venus sensed that and took advantage to win in straights. I would put this down to low self confidence on Serena's part.

Or maybe she saw how determined Venus was to win, feeling good, an just folded.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:12 AM
Oh, just shut up for once, will ya?

:(

slamchamp
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:13 AM
:(
:D

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:14 AM
:(

Yes, may I help you?

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:14 AM
:D

:mad:

mal
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:14 AM
Oh, just shut up for once, will ya?

Why?

You don't own my opinion.

slamchamp
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:15 AM
:mad::hearts:

Craig.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:17 AM
Why?

You don't own my opinion.

I never said I did. Your posts are just a little too eccentric at times and you go too far.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:18 AM
Have you tried looking in reverse psychology? We tend to think that a player's emotion affect their game. Perhaps she's calm and collected because she was playing well. Now that she's not playing well, she gets frustrated, so it is her game that affects her emotions.

EXCELLENT point! I guess it could be the proverbial chicken and egg thing.


Lady Diana,

Serena last slam win was '07- last year.

-VSR-
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:22 AM
Mentallity.
Footwork.
Confidence.

Bounty Hunter
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Serena's last title was in 2005.


AO 2007
Final: Serena Williams def Maria Sharapova(1) 6-1 6-2

;)




That wasn't long ago considering she really hasn't played that much tennis. The question should be why can't these other girls who have been playing all of these tournaments been able to win one title since they are suppose to be so good and they are the changing of the guard.

Agree!

miffedmax
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:39 AM
[QUOTE=mal;13598149]Or maybe she saw how determined Venus was to win, feeling good, an just folded.[/QUOTE

She lost a near-major final to the worst server in tennis in Moscow. How could she possibly hope to beat the best server at Wimbledon?

My theory (and I stand by it) is sheer genius and I'm surprised you all don't buy it immediately.

OsloErik
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:46 AM
When was the last slam she was a heavy favorite to win before the tournament started? I can't think of any since Wimbledon 2004.

LeRoy.
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:46 AM
Losing to Elena Dementive can scar you for life. That i can agree with. Serena might never be the same.

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:51 AM
she can't move for shit. acing oponents will only get you so far.

she needs major help in the fitness area. i don't care how great of shape you say she's in, she's NOT.

Apoleb
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:52 AM
Losing to Elena Dementive can scar you for life. That i can agree with. Serena might never be the same.

:lol:

--

I think it's all about her tennis. :shrug: Her footwork and her movement are just very inconsistent and have made her vulnerable at times in these last two years. Her problem is that she isn't being understanding of her current drawbacks, and she still expects so much of herself. When things don't go the way she thinks they are supposed to, she breaks down mentally. That happened against Justine in the FO and in the second set of the USO. And of course in the Wimby final.

Basically, she needs to improve her movement.

tae04
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:54 AM
too emotional, fitness, not fighting hard enough

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 04:43 AM
she can't move for shit. acing oponents will only get you so far.

she needs major help in the fitness area. i don't care how great of shape you say she's in, she's NOT.

that's a bit of an over-statement

Geisha
Jul 10th, 2008, 04:59 AM
she can't move for shit. acing oponents will only get you so far.

she needs major help in the fitness area. i don't care how great of shape you say she's in, she's NOT.

Yup.

She's improved her fitness, but it is not near where it used to be. Once she loses about ten pounds, she will get to shots quicker and be easily set up to hit huge groundstrokes.

Serena at her peak was intimidating, in all aspects - intimidating serve, groundstrokes, power, mentality, AND MOVEMENT.

Tennisstar86
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:54 AM
When was the last slam she was a heavy favorite to win before the tournament started? I can't think of any since Wimbledon 2004.

She was the favorite at the french this year... but that was because she was the only champion in the draw.... IMO....other than that she hasnt been... just overzealous fans....

Tennisstar86
Jul 10th, 2008, 07:00 AM
Yup.

She's improved her fitness, but it is not near where it used to be. Once she loses about ten pounds, she will get to shots quicker and be easily set up to hit huge groundstrokes.

Serena at her peak was intimidating, in all aspects - intimidating serve, groundstrokes, power, mentality, AND MOVEMENT.

I dont think Movement is the issue anymore... shes fast enough now... and fit enough.... the problem is remembering to move her feet and confidence at the NET IMO.... Because Serena got fat and lazy she was winning matches by serve not moving and hitting winners from behind the baseline.... when Serena was at her best.... she was all over the court and not timid when she came up to the net to finish a point off...

Its what they say if you dont use it you lose it.....and Serena looks confused everytime shes at the net.... If Serena wants to win majors.... she needs to work on her net play IMO....cause shes just not gonna be able to close off matches against these quick players from the baseline with ease...

Dawn Marie
Jul 10th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Serena is winning slams. She won AO 2007. She OWNS 8 slams. WTF? She won't win them all, and the 2008 US Open isn't over yet. So she didn't win the past 3 slams, she won a slam in 07. It's not like she's going thru a 5 year drought or something. Rolling on the Floor and I'm laughing my ass off.

jujufreak
Jul 10th, 2008, 08:52 AM
I'm not too sure if sarcasm played a part in that last statement. ;)

No, no sarcasm ;)

Stamp Paid
Jul 10th, 2008, 09:03 AM
:lol:

--

I think it's all about her tennis. :shrug: Her footwork and her movement are just very inconsistent and have made her vulnerable at times in these last two years. Her problem is that she isn't being understanding of her current drawbacks, and she still expects so much of herself.When things don't go the way she thinks they are supposed to, she breaks down mentally. That happened against Justine in the FO and in the second set of the USO. And of course in the Wimby final.

Basically, she needs to improve her movement.Spot on.

StephenUK
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:18 AM
I think there is something wrong with her mentally. She just doesn't seem to have the fight - she lost tamely to Henin in three slams last year, ditto to Jankovic, Srebotnik and Venus this year. In Paris, she said that she did not want to be there and her mother said that she was 'in a funk'. She doesn't have the fire in the belly that she had at the Australian in 07 for instance.

This is the longest stretch in her career that she has played consecutive slams - eight in a row. Maybe she just needs a 'turn the corner' match like Petrova at the Australian Open in 07 for something to change, but at the moment she just seems stuck in a lower gear when she plays a big match at a slam.

The good news for Serena fans is that the last time she played six consecutive slams without winning one, she then went on to win the Serena slam.

SoClose
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:55 AM
8 GS
:topic:

Lolo8
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:57 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20080707/en_music_eo/654111a8_e751461f_bcda_b9d70036e196;_ylt=Ag2o1evlx gOmO_etK4NRAx6VEhkF

mckyle.
Jul 10th, 2008, 11:11 AM
that's a bit of an over-statement

If you don't want people's (harsh and sometimes true) thoughts, don't start the thread. It defeats the purpose.

Lolo8
Jul 10th, 2008, 11:49 AM
8 GS
:topic:

She only has eight slams. With her talent Serena should be in the double digits ny now. Nadal just turned 22 and already has five slams. Serena should have won wimbledon last week. 2004 she just came back from knee surgey and I can understand not winning slams that year. But since 2005 she has only managed to win just 2 slams:eek:. That makes no sense to me. I wish Serena would stop being such a bad actress and drama queen on court and get her shit together because time is running out fast.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 11:56 AM
If you don't want people's (harsh and sometimes true) thoughts, don't start the thread. It defeats the purpose.

omg- what if that's my opinion? just go away

Wojtek
Jul 10th, 2008, 11:59 AM
She is not the best player - there are better players

OsloErik
Jul 10th, 2008, 12:07 PM
She was the favorite at the french this year... but that was because she was the only champion in the draw.... IMO....other than that she hasnt been... just overzealous fans....

But I really don't think she was the overwhelming favorite at the French. Her only top 10 win on clay since 2003 was Sharapova (on green clay). I would've put Ivanovic, Safina, and maybe even Kuznetsova and Jankovic up there. So hardly cut-and-dried as far as being a favorite.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 12:12 PM
nope Serena was the favorite

Bounty Hunter
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Boy, right after Wimbledon, some of the most uninformed, hateful, disrespectful threads have been posted regarding Serena. Most of them are form certain fan base. Now when other threads are formed disrespecting certain minority group, then we all wonder. You give an inch, and they take a yard. So, before you start a thread, use common sense for once.

I don’t have to defend Serena, because her achievement speak for its self.

Name one player in the open era that have achieve what Serena has a achieved? If you cannot find one (beside VW), then we are done with this thread.


As ladydiana stated:
The question should be why can't these other girls who have been playing all of these tournaments been able to win one title since they are suppose to be so good and they are the changing of the guard.


In case you forgotten her GS record.

Singles

1999 USO Serena Williams def Martina Hingis 6-3, 7-6
2002 French Open Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-5, 6-3
2002 Wimbledon Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-6 (7-4), 6-3
2002 USO Serena Williams def Venus Williams 6-4, 6-3
2003 Australian Open Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-6(4), 3-6, 6-4
2003 Wimbledon Serena Williams def Venus Williams 4-6, 6-4, 6-2
2005 Australian Open Serena Williams def Lindsay Davenport 2-6, 6-3, 6-0
2007 Australian Open Serena Williams def Maria Sharapova (RUS) 6-1 6-2

Doubles

Australian Open
2001 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport/Corina Morariu 6-2/4-6/6-4
2003 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 4-6, 6-4, 6-3
French Open
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Martina Hingis/Anna Kournikova 6-3, 6-7(2), 8-6
Wimbledon
2000 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Julie Halard-Decugis/Ai Sugiyama 6-3, 6-2
2002 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 6-2/ 7-5
2008 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lisa Raymond / Samanta Stosur 6-2 6-6
USO
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Chanda Rubin/Sandrine Testud 4-6, 6-1, 6-4

Mixed Doubles
1998 USO
Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def Lisa Raymond/Patrick Galbraith 6-2, 6-2
1998 Wimbledon
Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def M. Lucic/Mahesh Bhupathi 6-4, 6-4

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Right now you are being uninformed, hateful, and disrespectful towards Serena you disrespecting minority group. You are saying that we should be content with a slam here and there, you minority group. I give you and inch, and you take a yard- you minority group. So, before you post a comment, use common sense for once, you uninformed, hateful, and disrespectful disrespecting minority group. Really! What's with these disrespectful minority groups, always making uninformed, hateful, and disrespectful comments about people, with their minority fan-base ways. Why can't we not be disrespectful minority groups? Why can't their be any informed, non-hateful, respectful threads anymore? I guess we can blame thoe disrespectful minority Serena groups for getting all uninformed, hateful, and disrespectful.

Matt01
Jul 10th, 2008, 01:52 PM
Why isn't Serena winning the slams?

Because other players are winning them now. That doesn't mean that Serena won't win any more Slams for the rest of her career.

Next!

OsloErik
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:29 PM
nope Serena was the favorite

I can't remember a single commentator, writer, or non-fanatic saying "she is the absolute favorite, it would take extraordinary circumstances for her not to win". Everyone acknowledged that she was clearly high up in the discussion, but there was no single favorite going into the French. Maybe you can jar my memory, but I can't think of any reputable source that listed Serena as the odds-on favorite by any significant margin.

Expat
Jul 10th, 2008, 02:46 PM
Boy, right after Wimbledon, some of the most uninformed, hateful, disrespectful threads have been posted regarding Serena. Most of them are form certain fan base. Now when other threads are formed disrespecting certain minority group, then we all wonder. You give an inch, and they take a yard. So, before you start a thread, use common sense for once.

I don’t have to defend Serena, because her achievement speak for its self.

Name one player in the open era that have achieve what Serena has a achieved? If you cannot find one (beside VW), then we are done with this thread.


As ladydiana stated:



In case you forgotten her GS record.

Singles

1999 USO Serena Williams def Martina Hingis 6-3, 7-6
2002 French Open Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-5, 6-3
2002 Wimbledon Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-6 (7-4), 6-3
2002 USO Serena Williams def Venus Williams 6-4, 6-3
2003 Australian Open Serena Williams def Venus Williams 7-6(4), 3-6, 6-4
2003 Wimbledon Serena Williams def Venus Williams 4-6, 6-4, 6-2
2005 Australian Open Serena Williams def Lindsay Davenport 2-6, 6-3, 6-0
2007 Australian Open Serena Williams def Maria Sharapova (RUS) 6-1 6-2

Doubles

Australian Open
2001 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport/Corina Morariu 6-2/4-6/6-4
2003 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 4-6, 6-4, 6-3
French Open
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Martina Hingis/Anna Kournikova 6-3, 6-7(2), 8-6
Wimbledon
2000 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Julie Halard-Decugis/Ai Sugiyama 6-3, 6-2
2002 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Virginaia Ruano Pascual/Paola Suarez 6-2/ 7-5
2008 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Lisa Raymond / Samanta Stosur 6-2 6-6
USO
1999 - Serena Williams/Venus Williams def Chanda Rubin/Sandrine Testud 4-6, 6-1, 6-4

Mixed Doubles
1998 USO
Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def Lisa Raymond/Patrick Galbraith 6-2, 6-2
1998 Wimbledon
Serena Williams/Max Mirnyi def M. Lucic/Mahesh Bhupathi 6-4, 6-4
open era surely you are exaggerating

StephenUK
Jul 10th, 2008, 05:46 PM
I think the next thread should be 'why can't we have a rational debate about anything Williams?' I am fed up with it.

No-one questions Serena's past achievements - she is the best player of this generation without question. No other current player has won a grand slam (and I agree with Serena fans that her Serena Slam should be regarded as such). Venus and Justine are the only other players who come close to her record over the last 10 years.

Therefore, it seems perfectly reasonable to ask why she has not won the last 6 slams, when she has not been out with injury etc.

Her fans ask why people are coming up with 'disrespectful' threads about Serena now after Wimbledon. After Serena's great performances in the spring, her tame losses at both Roland Garros and Wimbledon have been a huge disappointment. This year, her slam performances have lagged behind her tour ones; maybe this will all change at the US Open, who knows.

G1Player2
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:07 PM
I think the next thread should be 'why can't we have a rational debate about anything Williams?' I am fed up with it.

No-one questions Serena's past achievements - she is the best player of this generation without question. No other current player has won a grand slam (and I agree with Serena fans that her Serena Slam should be regarded as such). Venus and Justine are the only other players who come close to her record over the last 10 years.

Therefore, it seems perfectly reasonable to ask why she has not won the last 6 slams, when she has not been out with injury etc.

Her fans ask why people are coming up with 'disrespectful' threads about Serena now after Wimbledon. After Serena's great performances in the spring, her tame losses at both Roland Garros and Wimbledon have been a huge disappointment. This year, her slam performances have lagged behind her tour ones; maybe this will all change at the US Open, who knows.

What?! She was injured at 2007 Wimbledon and 2007 US Open. The thumb injury and calf injury she sustained in her match against Hantuchova which kept her out the entire summer.

Geisha
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:21 PM
What?! She was injured at 2007 Wimbledon and 2007 US Open. The thumb injury and calf injury she sustained in her match against Hantuchova which kept her out the entire summer.

Serena said her calf did not impact her Wimbledon quarterfinal. I agree that her thumb injury somewhat influenced her US Open result, but it wasn't the main cause. When she was at the US Open, she was perfectly healthy.

sammy01
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:26 PM
What?! She was injured at 2007 Wimbledon and 2007 US Open. The thumb injury and calf injury she sustained in her match against Hantuchova which kept her out the entire summer.

you just totaly proved his/her point about having a rational discussion about either williams sister its just impossible because of stuff like 'she was injured at the us open' she played it, she made the qtrs, she lost, dont make excuses!

G1Player2
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Serena said her calf did not impact her Wimbledon quarterfinal. I agree that her thumb injury somewhat influenced her US Open result, but it wasn't the main cause. When she was at the US Open, she was perfectly healthy.


I know, but she had no match practice going into the US Open. And, when Venus played in Stanford, Serena's thumb was still wrapped and that was almost August!

So, basically, she didn't start practicing until just a couple of weeks before the Open and didn't have enough match practice. She was in good shape At Wimbledon that year and even at the French Open, but over the summer, since she couldn't practice with that thumb injury, she picked up a few pounds because she didn't look nearly as fit at the US Open as she did at Wimbledon.

Calypso
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:36 PM
She's a heavy favorite to win every time she enters a slam.

To me Serena doesn'nt move as well as she used to. And her current movement clearly didn't do her any favours against Venus at Wimbledon, not to mention Jie Zheng. I think she needs to improve her conditioning, its not bad but to win slams regularly again she needs to be able to impose herself physically again. The rest of her aggressive game will then come together.

Calypso
Jul 10th, 2008, 07:00 PM
She never recovered from losing in the Kremlin Cup finals last year.



:lol:

Beat
Jul 10th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Name one player in the open era that have achieve what Serena has a achieved?

is that a real question? :tape:

manu32
Jul 10th, 2008, 09:22 PM
she was better than venus last weekend at all POV

Dodoboy.
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:04 PM
is that a real question? :tape:

He might have meant active player ;)

Hell even Fed hasn't ;)

jonny84
Jul 11th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Justine played a big part of this in 2007 - beating her three times out of four in the slams. Of course Serena won the Australian.

Then maybe Serena was a bit complacent regarding Australia and French where she lost to Jankovic and Srebotnik as she should have really won.

This year at Wimbledon she was just outclassed. But Serena is not done with slams be assured of that.

ladydiana
Jul 11th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Some keep referring to Serena's fitness and her movement. There is nothing wrong with Serena's fitness. I don't think she's out of shape. Her body build is different than Venus'.


In terms of her foot work, Serena has the same footwork like she's always had. It's just that no one ever challenged her to long rallies where she had to move side-to-side except Justine. Every player has a weakness and most of the players over looked Serena's.


Serena is like a "sprinter" she's very quick and can get to any drop shot, over head ball, and she can run behind the baseline, but the problem is that she can't run behind the baseline for a long distance. About 7 years ago I remember reading a quote from Oracene when asked about things Venus and Serena didn't like to do during training when they were coming us as kids. And she stated things they didn't like to do and one of the things she said that Serena didn't like to do was to keep hitting on the run because sooner or later her balls would go into the net or she'd hit them out because she was tired. She said that would frustrate Serena as a kid and like a mother she'd tell her to just keep on trying.


I understand how that feels because I had a friend who was tall like Venus and she could just take a few strides in any direction and she'd be there, whereas I had to take so many smaller steps and it does tire you out. If you looked at Venus and Serena standing next to each other at Wimbledon, you could see just how much longer Venus' legs were over Serenas.


Some say that Serena has lost her desire to win. I don't think that's the case either. Serena loves to win; but does that mean she's gonna win alway, no. But she does love the game of tennis. If that wasn't the case then she would not have been disappointed with her FO or Wimbledon loss.


Serena is like all of the other athletes. No one can just stay on a high always because other players are doing everything in their power to perfect their games and find her weakness so they can exploit that and win.


Just look at Rafa. Roger has been on top for like 5 years and no one had even come close to challenging him. Well Rafa was hungry because the only place he could go was up to beat Roger and he came short last year at Wimbledon, but he sure learned Roger's weakness and exploited it. And he knew that Roger was tired and could not remain on a high forever.


Serena now has another goal, and that is to get back on top. So she'll do whatever she has to so she can reach that goal. That's what all athletes do no matter what sport their in.


No athlete will always be on top forever. They go through their winning and losing cycles just like everyone else. Serena is no different.


But one thing that is funny is people are wondering why Serena hasn't won a slam this year although the year isn't over. But they never wonder why Jelena and the other girls can't win their first slam, and they play tournament after tournament.


Serena has 8 slams and they can't even get one. Ana just got her first one this year, and she's not the clear #1 or favorite to win the USO.

sammy01
Jul 11th, 2008, 05:11 PM
^ladydiana nice post but her footwork around the ball is so sloppy these days, she is so often that fraction out of postion on down the middle balls ect because she plants her feet so early and is so lazy moving them now. please watch serena at wimbledon 02 or say us open '02 and see when theres a ball in the centre of the court her feet never stop moving, she was back then constantly on her toes and putting in the little steps. now adays she looks heavy around the deep up the middle balls, it affects her forehand more as her contact point has to be just right on it, her backhand is more forgiving.

AcesHigh
Jul 11th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Movement, footwork.. she's lost a couple of steps. Her fitness is fine. I'm actually very impressed with how fit she is. That doesnt make you faster though. Last year, during the tiebreak with Justine at USO, she was huffing and puffing like she was going to collapse. That has not happened at all this year.

She just needs to realize she just cant win each match on talent and she needs to find ways to counter her weakness, and how to improve her footwork.

Shepster
Jul 11th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Some keep referring to Serena's fitness and her movement. There is nothing wrong with Serena's fitness. I don't think she's out of shape. Her body build is different than Venus'.
This is a common misconception that "fitness" in a sporting sense equates to being "in shape". It has nothing to do with it. In a sporting context, if you are not match-sharp, if you cannot get a run of games under your belt without injury then that is a fitness issue. Venus for example is in better "shape" than, say Marion Bartoli, but last year Venus played Wimbledon, Fed Cup, a spot of WTT then claimed to be "exhausted" during her next event. Marion claimed exhaustion after playing more matches in less time from the French through Wimbledon ... and it was exactly the same amount that it took Jelena (who is both "in shape" and "fit") to use the same term at the same time.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 11th, 2008, 06:05 PM
She only has eight slams. With her talent Serena should be in the double digits ny now. Nadal just turned 22 and already has five slams. Serena should have won wimbledon last week. 2004 she just came back from knee surgey and I can understand not winning slams that year. But since 2005 she has only managed to win just 2 slams:eek:. That makes no sense to me. I wish Serena would stop being such a bad actress and drama queen on court and get her shit together because time is running out fast.

Serena had 5 at 21. :shrug: and all 4 of them at that.

No one could have predicted how much of an effect her injuries and family problems have had on her as a person and a tennis player. And even to this day, I think she's still dealing with both of those issues more than she's letting on.

Regardless, I do agree that she should be past BJK by now. She choked at the FO in 2003 and this year. She didn't come to play during her QF at the AO this year, and the 2004 US Open was hers, but she couldn't finish Jennifer off in 2.

She's come up empty a LOT in the past 5 years, but she's also achieved a lot too, so :shrug: you win some, you lose some.

Tennisstar86
Jul 11th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Serena had 5 at 21. :shrug: and all 4 of them at that.

No one could have predicted how much of an effect her injuries and family problems have had on her as a person and a tennis player. And even to this day, I think she's still dealing with both of those issues more than she's letting on.

Regardless, I do agree that she should be past BJK by now. She choked at the FO in 2003 and this year. She didn't come to play during her QF at the AO this year, and the 2004 US Open was hers, but she couldn't finish Jennifer off in 2.

She's come up empty a LOT in the past 5 years, but she's also achieved a lot too, so :shrug: you win some, you lose some.

yes she had 5 at 21...and all 4, but what does that really show? That Serena should be winning everything? or that Serena got hot for a year won all 4 and now has a ton of pressure on her from fans to be that player again, when in reality she prolly never will be again. she'll just get hot randomly like shes done her entire career... when she won 99 US 05 and 07 Ao is was just she got hot for 2 weeks...

And IMO even in 03 she wasnt the same player she was in 02... she wasnt the best player at the Austrailian thats for sure had Clijsters not choked we would be talkin about the almost Serena slam....

Yes Serena's a great player, but shes not even making finals consistantly... Hingis made more GS finals than her (so far) and she played for a lot less time..

Bounty Hunter
Jul 11th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Should I start a thread... why isnt' Venus winning the slams?



2000 Wimbledon Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport 6-3, 7-6 (7-3)
2000 USO Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport 6-4, 7-5
2001 Wimbledon Venus Williams def Justine Henin-Hardenne 6-1, 3-6, 6-
2001 USO Venus Williams def Serena Williams 6-2, 6-4
2005 Wimbledon Venus Williams def Lindsay Davenport 4-6, 7-6, 9-7
2007 Wimbledon Venus Williams def Marion Bartoli 6-4, 6-1
2008 Wimbeldon Venus Willams def Serena Williams 7-5 6-4


Serena still has a better track record at the slams. We still have USO, so she may make you guys happy by winning it this year. :)

starin
Jul 11th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Movement and Aggression off the ground.

I think Serena is fit and she can play long matches and not get tired. But she needs to drop some weight and just work on her legs and posterior some more. She's just not fast enough around the court. it's too easy to get her out of position, and imo she's not aggressive enough off the ground. At AO-Charleston I thought she looked a little faster but at Wimbly I thought she looked like she put on a little weight and had slowed down .

manu32
Jul 11th, 2008, 08:21 PM
serena's serve and slice backhand are great.....

Geisha
Jul 11th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Serena's body has been built different from Venus' since the day she was born. She does not have the same movement she had in the past. In the past, Capriati, Clijsters, Hingis, and Venus all moved her fom side to side to side to side, and she got there and hit offensive shots from defensive positions.

Some keep referring to Serena's fitness and her movement. There is nothing wrong with Serena's fitness. I don't think she's out of shape. Her body build is different than Venus'.


In terms of her foot work, Serena has the same footwork like she's always had. It's just that no one ever challenged her to long rallies where she had to move side-to-side except Justine. Every player has a weakness and most of the players over looked Serena's.


Serena is like a "sprinter" she's very quick and can get to any drop shot, over head ball, and she can run behind the baseline, but the problem is that she can't run behind the baseline for a long distance. About 7 years ago I remember reading a quote from Oracene when asked about things Venus and Serena didn't like to do during training when they were coming us as kids. And she stated things they didn't like to do and one of the things she said that Serena didn't like to do was to keep hitting on the run because sooner or later her balls would go into the net or she'd hit them out because she was tired. She said that would frustrate Serena as a kid and like a mother she'd tell her to just keep on trying.


I understand how that feels because I had a friend who was tall like Venus and she could just take a few strides in any direction and she'd be there, whereas I had to take so many smaller steps and it does tire you out. If you looked at Venus and Serena standing next to each other at Wimbledon, you could see just how much longer Venus' legs were over Serenas.


Some say that Serena has lost her desire to win. I don't think that's the case either. Serena loves to win; but does that mean she's gonna win alway, no. But she does love the game of tennis. If that wasn't the case then she would not have been disappointed with her FO or Wimbledon loss.


Serena is like all of the other athletes. No one can just stay on a high always because other players are doing everything in their power to perfect their games and find her weakness so they can exploit that and win.


Just look at Rafa. Roger has been on top for like 5 years and no one had even come close to challenging him. Well Rafa was hungry because the only place he could go was up to beat Roger and he came short last year at Wimbledon, but he sure learned Roger's weakness and exploited it. And he knew that Roger was tired and could not remain on a high forever.


Serena now has another goal, and that is to get back on top. So she'll do whatever she has to so she can reach that goal. That's what all athletes do no matter what sport their in.


No athlete will always be on top forever. They go through their winning and losing cycles just like everyone else. Serena is no different.


But one thing that is funny is people are wondering why Serena hasn't won a slam this year although the year isn't over. But they never wonder why Jelena and the other girls can't win their first slam, and they play tournament after tournament.


Serena has 8 slams and they can't even get one. Ana just got her first one this year, and she's not the clear #1 or favorite to win the USO.

Geisha
Jul 11th, 2008, 08:26 PM
serena's serve and slice backhand are great.....

Serena's serve is the best in the game, but her slice backhand sucks tomatoes.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 11th, 2008, 09:26 PM
...In the past, Capriati, Clijsters, Hingis, and Venus all moved her fom side to side to side to side, and she got there and hit offensive shots from defensive positions.

Agreed. Her strokes simply aren't as immaculate as they were back then. I believe that is due to an inability to spend the time necessary to groove them.