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View Full Version : Sad Serena statistic - Bartoli is the only top tenner she has beaten in last 6 slams!


StephenUK
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:57 AM
Best wins in slams for Serena in last 6 slams

French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska

Hardly stellar stuff, is it?

santhuruu
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:01 AM
I don't care about that statistic, even if that stat would be for an other player. As long as they keep winning titles and what is even more important as long as they stay healthy I am happy with it.

mckyle.
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Well if you look at how draws work, 6 of the top 8 seeds don't play another top 10 player until the quarterfinals. So in USO 2007, Serena just happened to be one of those two top 8 seeds to draw a top ten player in the 4th round. She always played Henin in the quarters and couldn't get past her, so the fact that she's only defeated one top-ten player isn't shocking. French Open - don't know what happened there. Wimbledon - Agnieszka became a Top 10 player the next week, and beat #4 in her previous match.

You have to look at the story behind it, and not just the numbers.

vettipooh
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Best wins in slams for the Brits. Oh wait. The Brits can't even win their own slam,Wimbledon much less for any slam, And that's Male or female. :haha:
Hardly stellar stuff, is it? :tape: :wavey:

jimbo mack
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:13 AM
serena has wins over venus, kuznetsova, jankovic and sharapova this year :) i dont think she has to prove she can beat top players lol

Just Do It
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:15 AM
:tape:

Mikey.
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:15 AM
:eek:

Shvedbarilescu
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Best wins in slams for Serena in last 6 slams

French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska

Hardly stellar stuff, is it?

In fairness, Safina, Hantuchova and Radwanska are all top 10 standard players. Some people would even argue Vaidisova was a top 10 standard player. Whatever, however you cut it Serena has beaten a top 12 player in 5 of her last 6 slams and that doesn't sound so bad. I don't imagine too many other players could say the same.

Cp6uja
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:17 AM
French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova
lose against #1 Henin

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova
lose against #3 Jankovic

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad
lose against Srebotnik

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska
lose against #7 Venus (champion)


So in last 6 slams Serena have just one match with "sad" result (against Srebotnik RG/08).

StephenUK
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:20 AM
serena has wins over venus, kuznetsova, jankovic and sharapova this year :) i dont think she has to prove she can beat top players lol

I'm not denying that for a minute, but I am pointing out that she has not been able to reproduce this in a slam for some time. Personally I think that her strangely unconfident performance in the Wimbledon final is connected to this poor sequence.

jimbo mack
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:22 AM
I'm not denying that for a minute, but I am pointing out that she has not been able to reproduce this in a slam for some time. Personally I think that her strangely unconfident performance in the Wimbledon final is connected to this poor sequence.

how could she have re-produced it at wimbledon when radwanska and zheng took out the top ten players she was meant to face?

Tennisation
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:36 AM
French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova
lose against #1 Henin

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova
lose against #3 Jankovic

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad
lose against Srebotnik

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska
lose against #7 Venus (champion)


So in last 6 slams Serena have just one match with "sad" result (against Srebotnik RG/08).ouch! those losses to Justine gotta hurt still:lol:

vettipooh
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:45 AM
ouch! those losses to Justine gotta hurt still:lol:

I doubt it!:lol: That recent loss to Serena 6/2 6/0 is what's hurting.:lol: Hurting so bad she's gone!!!:lol:

Mashafaaaaan
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:53 AM
I doubt it!:lol: That recent loss to Serena 6/2 6/0 is what's hurting.:lol: Hurting so bad she's gone!!!:lol:

I was sure someone will say that:lol::lol:

StephenUK
Jul 9th, 2008, 11:54 AM
French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova
lose against #1 Henin

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli
lose against #1 Henin (champion)

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova
lose against #3 Jankovic

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad
lose against Srebotnik

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska
lose against #7 Venus (champion)


So in last 6 slams Serena have just one match with "sad" result (against Srebotnik RG/08).

Compare her to the other top 10 + Henin over that period

7 wins: Ivanovic and Venus
6 wins: Henin
4 wins: Sharapova
3 wins: Safina
2 wins: Jankovic, Radwanska
1 win: Kuznetsova
0 wins: Serena, Dementieva and Chakvetadze

Her results are not really bad, but bowing out as soon as the tough opposition hits your path is more Maleeva than Williams, don't you think?

It's no surprise that the last 4 winners of slams are the top 4 in this group as well....

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Hmmm...interesting. She used to be so good against top 10-ers.
And all in straight sets lately. Not good.

pittsburghsteely
Jul 9th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Best wins in slams for Serena in last 6 slams

French Open 2007
last 16 beat #11 Safina

Wimbledon 2007
last 16 beat #12 Hantuchova

US Open 2007
last 16 beat #10 Bartoli

Australian Open 2008
last 16 beat #12 Vaidisova

French Open 2008
1r beat #61 Harkleroad

Wimbledon 2008
qf beat # 11 A Radwanska

Hardly stellar stuff, is it?

well if the top ten players stop getting a can of whoop ass on them ,by players ranked #140 and #80, then serena can play them.

jonny84
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM
Its just the way the seeding goes - not Serena's fault!

chris whiteside
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:00 PM
I don't really understand where you are coming from with this.

In those 6 events she lost to a higher ranked player on 4 of them and once to Venus ranked 1 place lower which can hardly be described as "sad". Serena had no control over whom her opponents would be at any stage.

Why begin arbitrarily at RG 2007 anyway? It would be more logical to start at the beginning of a season i.e. A/O 2007.

Cp6uja
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Compare her to the other top 10 + Henin over that period

7 wins: Ivanovic and Venus
6 wins: Henin
4 wins: Sharapova
3 wins: Safina
2 wins: Jankovic, Radwanska
1 win: Kuznetsova
0 wins: Serena, Dementieva and Chakvetadze

Her results are not really bad, but bowing out as soon as the tough opposition hits your path is more Maleeva than Williams, don't you think?

It's no surprise that the last 4 winners of slams are the top 4 in this group as well....Actualy, if we count AO/07 since 2007 she have 3 TOP10 GS wins (Sharapva, Petrova and Bartoli) and she is never ranked like TOP4 seeds at all of this last 7 GS tournaments (since 2007) and at last 6 she is 5-8 seed which is worst option for colecting TOP10 wins because your first TOP10 opponent is almost always some of TOP4 seeds and in Serena case she draws three time in the row Henin in her career best season in QF round where Serena is traditionaly most vulnerable. Like i say, her only "sad" result since 2007 is her lose against Srebotnik at RG/08 (i think her fans is also upset with her JJ lose at AO, but Jelena is TOP3 player whole 2008). She lose at 4 of this 6 tournaments against #1 or eventual champions... so it's just happen and that is explanation. She will probably plays in 2009 like TOP4 seed at slams and i'm sure that she will improve her TOP10 stats at slams. More reason for worry have her sister Venus which 5 years in the row have disaster W/L record at "slower" slams AO and RG. At last 5+5 AO&RG Venus beat just one TOP20 - that i call "Sad statistic".

ladydiana
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:14 PM
In regards to statistics of a lower ranked opponent, it doesn't even matter because these lower ranked opponents are knocking out these top ranked players in these grand slam finals.


All of these players are professionals and each player has a 50-50 chance of winning when they meet. We just saw Maria, Ana, Jelena, Kutzy and all the top ranked players get bounced by lower ranked players. So all of this is irrelevant. Regardless if it's Serena, Venus or whomever, they just have to get out there and win the match, no matter what the ranking of the player is.


No player is can control who they will meet in each round of a grand slam. That's not their job. Their job is just to go out there and play their game and win. Besides it's no more for Serena or Venus to get the opportunity to play lower ranked players. God knows Maria has been getting cakewalk draws to the finals, but these lower ranked players have been bumping her off left and right. :lol:

Dawson.
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Best wins in slams for the Brits. Oh wait. The Brits can't even win their own slam,Wimbledon much less for any slam, And that's Male or female. :haha:
Hardly stellar stuff, is it? :tape: :wavey:

what does this have to do with anything? this thread is about serena, not the brits

In The Zone
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Well if you look at how draws work, 6 of the top 8 seeds don't play another top 10 player until the quarterfinals. So in USO 2007, Serena just happened to be one of those two top 8 seeds to draw a top ten player in the 4th round. She always played Henin in the quarters and couldn't get past her, so the fact that she's only defeated one top-ten player isn't shocking. French Open - don't know what happened there. Wimbledon - Agnieszka became a Top 10 player the next week, and beat #4 in her previous match.

You have to look at the story behind it, and not just the numbers.

Exactly. Someone with brains.

This thread is incredibly misleading and stupid.

In The Zone
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Compare her to the other top 10 + Henin over that period

7 wins: Ivanovic and Venus
6 wins: Henin
4 wins: Sharapova
3 wins: Safina
2 wins: Jankovic, Radwanska
1 win: Kuznetsova
0 wins: Serena, Dementieva and Chakvetadze

Her results are not really bad, but bowing out as soon as the tough opposition hits your path is more Maleeva than Williams, don't you think?

It's no surprise that the last 4 winners of slams are the top 4 in this group as well....

6 Slams. 3 were Henin, one was Venus. The two losses that are bad were Srebotnik and Jankovic. And Serena was out of it for both of those. The 4 losses (Henin and Venus) are not bad losses. Considering Serena was a tank at the USO, one handed at Wimbledon, and RG is CLAY .. and Venus was on grass.

Give me a break.

We're arguing between "elite" and "great". Stop being a hater and trying to cause confrontation.

vwfan
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:45 PM
More reason for worry have her sister Venus which 5 years in the row have disaster W/L record at "slower" slams AO and RG. At last 5+5 AO&RG Venus beat just one TOP20 - that i call "Sad statistic".
I knew someone had to bring Venus into this. I think you can defend Serena's record without disparaging Venus. ;) We all know that Venus performs best in the last two slams of the year. . .no news there.

Anyway, take heart Serena fans. The last time Venus beat Serena in a Grand Slam final, she went on to win the next four in a row. That defeat was the best motivator that Serena could ever have.

I wouldn't be surprised if she drops out of most of the summer hardcourt tournaments and focuses on improving fitness and footwork. Serve and return game are there! If she doesn't take the U.S. Open, she will reign again at the Aus Open 2009 (though I sooooo want Venus to win it finally)

Dave.
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Best wins in slams for the Brits. Oh wait. The Brits can't even win their own slam,Wimbledon much less for any slam, And that's Male or female. :haha:
Hardly stellar stuff, is it? :tape: :wavey:

what the hell? :o

StephenUK
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:35 PM
6 Slams. 3 were Henin, one was Venus. The two losses that are bad were Srebotnik and Jankovic. And Serena was out of it for both of those. The 4 losses (Henin and Venus) are not bad losses. Considering Serena was a tank at the USO, one handed at Wimbledon, and RG is CLAY .. and Venus was on grass.

Give me a break.

We're arguing between "elite" and "great". Stop being a hater and trying to cause confrontation.

I am not trying to cause confrontation, I am just trying to analyse a trend I have noticed. I never said her losses were bad, they are just like a number 8 in the world of the Chakvetadze or Maleeva level, not that of a great champion. There isn't one match in the last 6 slams that you could call a big win - it's all been routine.

Noticing Serena's losses in recent slams, there is this trend of losing in straight sets in subdued matches, like something is missing mentally. Her Wimbledon final against Venus fitted this trend - she doesn't seem to be able to fight back when another top player gets the upper hand. I think something is up with her.

Compare this grand slam drought to her previous ones, 2003-5 and 2005-7 and there is a big difference. She missed many of these slams via injury and indeed was barely fit at all at some of them eg 2005 Wimbledon. In fact she has now played her eighth consecutive slam at Wimbledon, a record for her, as she has never played more than six in a row without pulling out.

I don't think this thread is nonsense, I'm just pointing something out that her fans don't want to hear.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:41 PM
why start from RG 07?? oh that's right...because then your point wouldn't be valid....but as usual you always try to start something about the sisters :rolleyes:

StephenUK
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:46 PM
What do others think? Do you think this is just a blip or something more serious? Her general performances have improved greatly this year; it's her slam performances that have not caught up.

The US Open should be a good test as it is on her best surface; maybe she just needs one big match to turn things. Even though she is far from my favourite player, I do believe that she does deserve a slam out of 2008, it would seem wrong otherwise.

There is some good news for Serena fans - the last time she lost in six consecutive slams, she went on to win the next four..the Serena Slam.

Doc
Jul 9th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Interesting.

supergrunt
Jul 9th, 2008, 04:42 PM
But she has beaten top 10 players elsewhere. I could see that this would be a problem if that were not the case but it isn't. Federer has not beaten a top ten player in his last three slams either.

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 10th, 2008, 03:59 AM
I doubt it!:lol: That recent loss to Serena 6/2 6/0 is what's hurting.:lol: Hurting so bad she's gone!!!:lol:


:lol::bounce::wavey:

vettipooh
Jul 10th, 2008, 04:38 AM
Exactly. Someone with brains.

This thread is incredibly misleading and stupid.


Plus is was started by a Serena hater with bad intentions to assasinate her accomplishments....hence my response about the Brits to StephenUK with the British flag. Note the ending line"hardly stellar stuff, is it?" No offence to the Brits...3 are my favs, but he took a malicious dig at Rena.

starin
Jul 10th, 2008, 04:45 AM
she has 5 top ten wins this year. they jsut were all outside the slams. And so far she's beaten:
Henin, Sharapova, Venus, Kuznetsova, Jankovic. The only major name she's missing is Ivanovic who she hasn't faced.

Record against top 10 this year is : 5-2. Not bad imo. She's just underperformed at the slams.

DimaDinosaur
Jul 10th, 2008, 05:01 AM
I doubt it!:lol: That recent loss to Serena 6/2 6/0 is what's hurting.:lol: Hurting so bad she's gone!!!:lol:

LOL, stop being delusional. As if Serena caused Justine to retire. :haha: x 1000000

ASP0315
Jul 10th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Wow this an idiotic thread. i'm not even a big fan of serena but this is downright idiotic.
First of all why did you start from RG 2007.? :lol: Should i jog your memory that she won Australian open by ass whopping Sharapova.? :lol: (Wait a minute she also crushed sharapova pretty badly in miami with the similar scoreline and won that event which is aka 5th uofficial slam and it has most of the top ten players were in it. BTW she beat henin in the finals to win that one. :wavey: )
the second point is made by ChrisHorse and Cpjula, i won't repeat that again.
the third thing is look at the overall record and count the number of top ten players she had beaten and frankly speaking she did not get to face many number of top ten players in slams beacuse she did not get past the QF for the last 5 out the 6 slams.

fourth stop being a hater and grow up.


she has 5 top ten wins this year. they jsut were all outside the slams. And so far she's beaten:
Henin, Sharapova, Venus, Kuznetsova, Jankovic. The only major name she's missing is Ivanovic who she hasn't faced.

Record against top 10 this year is : 5-2. Not bad imo. She's just underperformed at the slams.

exactly correct.

Harvs
Jul 10th, 2008, 06:44 AM
well it was almost always henin... so thats understandable

StephenUK
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:11 AM
What do others think? Do you think this is just a blip or something more serious? Her general performances have improved greatly this year; it's her slam performances that have not caught up.

The US Open should be a good test as it is on her best surface; maybe she just needs one big match to turn things. Even though she is far from my favourite player, I do believe that she does deserve a slam out of 2008, it would seem wrong otherwise.

There is some good news for Serena fans - the last time she lost in six consecutive slams, she went on to win the next four..the Serena Slam.

It looks like I hit a raw nerve with the likes of ASP and vettipooh :lol: :lol:

Pity they didn't bother to read this part of the thread...:help:

StephenUK
Jul 10th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Another thing, I love the way that Serena fans are now saying that Serena's losses to Henin at Wimbledon and the US Open are somehow good results, when at the time, they were droning on about how Justine would be trashed. Maybe the memory is so horrific that it has had to be suppressed!!! :lol: