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sunsfuns
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I was wondering how well success in juniors correlates to success on the main tour. Obviously there have been many "failures" among junior GS winners (Salerni, Flipkens, Smashnova, Widjaja etc), but how about the other way around? How good were current top stars in their junior days? Here are data for current top 20 with all notable results (SF or better in GS or Orange Bowl):

Ivanovic - 2004 W RU
Jankovic - 2001 AO W
Sharapova - 2002 AO RU, 2002 W RU
Kuznetsova - 2001 RG RU, 2001 USO RU, 2001 OB RU, 2002 RG SF
S. Williams - didn't play
Dementieva - 1997 OB SF, 1998 RG SF, 1998 OB W
V. Williams - didn't play
Chakvetadze - 2003 W RU
Safina - 2001 W RU
Radwanska - 2005 W W, 2006 RG W
Zvonareva - 2000 OB W, 2001 OB W
Hantuchova - no notable results
Schnyder - no notable results
Szavay - 2005 AO RU, 2005 RG W, 2005 W SF
Bartoli - 2001 USO W, 2001 OB SF
Azarenka - 2004 W SF, 2004 USO SF, 2005 AO W, 2005 W SF, 2005 USO W
Petrova - 1998 RG W, 1998 OB RU, 1999 AO SF, 1999 USO RU
Kirilenko - 2002 W SF, 2002 USO W
Schiavone - no notable results
Cornet - 2007 AO SF, 2007 RG W

NeeemZ
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:25 AM
I wouldn't call Smashnova a failure. She was a Top 20 player, unlike any of the others mentioned.

LeonHart
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:05 AM
Yeah Smashnova did pretty well for her height.

rated_next
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:12 AM
How can you call Smashnova's career a failure?? :rolleyes: . Most players dream of having her career.

Salerni has done alright as well, but she's always is injured.
Flipkens been injured but she is coming back nicely.
and Widjaja's entire career was an injury.

OsloErik
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:15 AM
Everyone knows that Kuznetsova is my favorite player, but she was the queen of runner-ups even as a junior!

sunsfuns
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:21 AM
Sorry about Smashnova - I forgot about her being in the top 20.
Some folks here are really quick to call others idiots, though :rolleyes:

Some other more appropriate examples - Aniko Kapros, Barbora Strycova, Tara Snyder...

LeonHart
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:24 AM
Sorry about Smashnova - I forgot about her being in the top 20.
Some folks here are really quick to call others idiots, though :rolleyes:

Some other more appropriate examples - Aniko Kapros, Barbora Strycova, Tara Snyder...

Hmm how did Kapros do as a Junior? I know she had a horrid serve that would never translate into the professional tour. Strycova was a surprise, I really expected her to do better, but she had a good result last week in Wimby so maybe it's coming together :)

ASP0315
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:28 AM
honarable mention:
Amelie Mauresmo: 1996 RG and Wimby juniors champ (10 years later he won AO and Wimby. ;) )

sunsfuns
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:29 AM
Hmm how did Kapros do as a Junior? I know she had a horrid serve that would never translate into the professional tour. Strycova was a surprise, I really expected her to do better, but she had a good result last week in Wimby so maybe it's coming together :)

2000 AO champion.

sunsfuns
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:30 AM
honarable mention:
Amelie Mauresmo: 1996 RG and Wimby juniors champ (10 years later he won AO and Wimby. ;) )

Also Lindsay Davenport: 1992 USO girls' champion. I've heard she had a decent career as well ;)

Chunchun
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:35 AM
so Maria went from a junior runner-up to a ladies GS champ in 2 years :eek: What happened? :confused:

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:36 AM
An interesting and useful thread for a change. Thank you sunsfuns.

Judging from your list, Radwańska and Azarenka achieved more than the other girls as Juniors by being the only ones who won two Junior grand slams, Agnieszka -- the classic ones: Roland Garros & Wimbledon, Victoria -- the New World ones: Australian & US Open.

It would be interesting to know who won both Roland Garros and Wimbledon as a Junior besides Radwańska.

ASP0315
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:39 AM
Also Lindsay Davenport: 1992 USO girls' champion. I've heard she had a decent career as well ;)

decent career.? :lol:
it was a fanstastic career for her. ;)
former world number #1 and won slams on all surfaces except RG. (not to mention, she was runner up at Wimby(x2), USO , AO.)

mckyle.
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:39 AM
An interesting and useful thread for a change. Thank you sunsfuns.

Judging from your list, Radwańska and Azarenka achieved more than the other girls as Juniors by being the only ones who won two Junior grand slams, Agnieszka -- the classic ones: Roland Garros & Wimbledon, Victoria -- the New World ones: Australian & US Open.

It would be interesting to know who won both Roland Garros and Wimbledon as a Junior besides Radwańska.

How is US Open "new world"? It's only a few years younger than Wimbledon :lol:

sunsfuns
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:43 AM
It would be interesting to know who won both Roland Garros and Wimbledon as a Junior besides Radwańska.

Zvereva, Hingis and Mauresmo

Reuchlin
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:58 AM
I'd think that Hanutchova would have had a better junior career-- Her lack of results may be due to her turning pro relatively early. She was, after all, Indian Wells champ at 17 (still a technical 'junior.').

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:39 AM
How is US Open "new world"? It's only a few years younger than Wimbledon :lol:

Check the meaning of the phrase New World in a dictionary.

Mynarco
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:44 AM
How come williames did so well without junior?
impressive indeed.

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:44 AM
Zvereva, Hingis and Mauresmo

Thank you. Are these three plus Agnieszka and Victoria, the only ones in the history of Junior grand slams?

By the way, when 'Girls' and 'Boys' started competing in grand slams?

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:49 AM
How come the Williames did so well without junior?
impressive indeed.

'Homeschooling'.;)

Sometimes homeschoolers are the best. For example, the best student at the University of California is a homeschooler (in fact, he didn't spend a single day of his life in school).

weary
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:44 AM
:hearts: Marion 2001 USO winner :yeah:

Shepster
Jul 8th, 2008, 09:50 AM
I was wondering how well success in juniors correlates to success on the main tour.
Mmm, I did the same thing (but looking at finals in slams), but evened it out to the top 30. It's an almost identical pattern (7 of the top 10, 13 of the top 20 and 19 of the top 30 got to the final of a junior slam).

From 21-30 :

Vaidisova made the final of the Aussie
Davenport won the US Open
Peer won the Aussie
Srebotnik won Wimbledon and made the final of the US Open
Razzano won the Aussie and the French
Wozniacki won Wimbledon and made the final of the Aussie

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 8th, 2008, 11:20 AM
I'd think that Hanutchova would have had a better junior career-- Her lack of results may be due to her turning pro relatively early. She was, after all, Indian Wells champ at 17 (still a technical 'junior.').

she won Indian Wells in 2002, a month short of her 19th :wavey:

Nina.
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Does anybody know where I can find some stats about the junior rankings of the top players?

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Does anybody know where I can find some stats about the junior rankings of the top players?

http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/
put players name in and see profiles

Nina.
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:55 PM
http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/players/
put players name in and see profiles

Thank you :wavey:

A'DAM
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Smashnova a failure?!?!?! She was a great player (top 20) with many titles and long carrere!!!

eck
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Wow Justine had a pretty average career. :o

pancake
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:22 PM
decent career.? :lol:
it was a fanstastic career for her. ;)
former world number #1 and won slams on all surfaces except RG. (not to mention, she was runner up at Wimby(x2), USO , AO.)

He/she was probably talking about her JUNIOR career;).

Ksenia.
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Another stat: current top 20 by their highest ranking in juniors

1 Azarenka
1 Jankovic
1 Kuznetsova
1 Radwanska
2 Bartoli
2 Kirilenko
2 Szavay
3 Petrova
3 Zvonareva
4 Dementieva
6 Sharapova
8 Cornet
9 Safina
13 Hantuchova
19 Ivanovic
22 Chakvetadze
35 Schiavone
130 Schnyder

$uricate
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Wow, I just checked and Nastya only got to number 48 in the Junior rankings, yet reached number 2 and won a slam on WTA!

Chakvetadze wasn't too great either.

Cp6uja
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Looking at current TOP20, most bizzare for me is fact how many more success GS junior runnerups (Ana, Maria, Sveta, Elena, Anna, Dinara) have than GS junior champions (Jelena, Aga, Agnes, Marion, Vika, Nadia, MaKiri, Alize). But i'm sure that this curse will be changed in near future because almost all junior GS champions after Wimbledon 2004 looks more talented than runerups without title in same period.

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:22 PM
Looking at current TOP20, most bizzare for me is fact how many more success GS junior runnerups (Ana, Maria, Sveta, Elena, Anna, Dinara) have than GS junior champions (Jelena, Aga, Agnes, Marion, Vika, Nadia, MaKiri, Alize). But i'm sure that this curse will be changed in near future because almost all junior GS champions after Wimbledon 2004 looks more talented than runerups without title in same period.

Wait, wait!

For the comparison to be valid the girls would have to play on the WTA tour for the same period of time.

This is clearly not the case.

Agnieszka and Alizé won their Junior trophies quite recently.

As a matter of fact, Agnieszka who just reached Top 10, did it faster (counting from the moment she turned a pro) than any of the girls you mentioned, including Sharapova.

Optima
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:29 PM
I find it pretty remarkable Jelena didn't pick up tennis until she was 9/10 years old and still won the junior Aussie Open, and has made it as high on the main tour as she has.

thetennistimes
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:22 PM
This is a pretty good list. Womens tennis does depend alot on junior tennis, because there is not much difference in age between the juniors and top players in the world.

Cp6uja
Jul 8th, 2008, 05:35 PM
Wait, wait!

For the comparison to be valid the girls would have to play on the WTA tour for the same period of time.

This is clearly not the case.

Agnieszka and Alizé won their Junior trophies quite recently.

As a matter of fact, Agnieszka who just reached Top 10, did it faster (counting from the moment she turned a pro) than any of the girls you mentioned, including Sharapova.If you read carefuly my post you will see that i notice that trend (runnerups>>>winners at jrGS 1998/2004) is change since 2005.

I create yesterday Girls at 14 Winning JUNIOR slam (last 10 WTA cases) (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=349615) thread here where one my post is also related on this juniors RUNNERUPS/WINNERS subject:
"JUNIORS CHAMPIONS CURSE":

In last 10 years nobody of Junior Slam Champions not reach any Grand Slam title in senior competition, and i think only Marion Bartoli reach some final. Which is more bizzare, in same time 4 of their opponents in all that finals (runnerups girls) Maria Sharapova, Kim Clijsters, Svetlana Kuznetsova and Ana Ivanovic already won 6 slams of their 15 slam finals so far . So we will see who will broke first this unbelivable "curse" (last Juniors winner which won GS in seniors is Juniors Roland Garros 1997 winner Justine Henin).So what we have last 10 years in juniors finals it's more than clean "runnerups>>>winners" phenom which is very hard to be explained.

netimka
Jul 8th, 2008, 06:37 PM
An interesting and useful thread for a change. Thank you sunsfuns.

Judging from your list, Radwańska and Azarenka achieved more than the other girls as Juniors by being the only ones who won two Junior grand slams, Agnieszka -- the classic ones: Roland Garros & Wimbledon, Victoria -- the New World ones: Australian & US Open.

It would be interesting to know who won both Roland Garros and Wimbledon as a Junior besides Radwańska.

Her younger sis ULA, future TOP 10:angel:

Malva
Jul 8th, 2008, 09:21 PM
If you read carefuly my post you will see that i notice that trend (runnerups>>>winners at jrGS 1998/2004) is change since 2005.

I noticed that. Still my objection holds as the two groups involved girls with vastly different experience on the WTA tour. I was objecting to 'methodology' if you like.



So what we have last 10 years in juniors finals it's more than clean "runnerups>>>winners" phenom which is very hard to be explained.

Not necessarily so. I can imagine that the runner up may have a very similar talent to the winner's. Yet getting to the Final, and not winning the trophy may provide a far stronger motivation to an increased effort in the transitional period to the WTA circuit.

Cp6uja, I take this opportunity to thank you for your informative posts filled with facts. I enjoy reading them even though occasionaly I may differ in some points of interpretation.

Nicolás89
Jul 8th, 2008, 10:33 PM
Most of them had big potential in juniors and they kept that in tour, awesome. :yeah:

Nicolás89
Jul 8th, 2008, 10:36 PM
How is US Open "new world"? It's only a few years younger than Wimbledon :lol:

Europe is called the "old world" and America the "new world".