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vwfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 01:17 PM
attacking her strengths, rather than focusing solely on her weaknesses.

Serena's strengths:

serve: Venus put so much pressure on Serena's serve; she attacked the second serve (supposedly the "best in women's tennis") mercilessly and I think Serena won only five points on her second serve whereas Venus won 56% of her second serves.

return game: Venus minimized this advantage by serving repeatedly into the body; this prevented Serena from whacking it back (which she did often enough anyway); she also varied her serve placement and speed and threw Serena off. Despite all the break points, she only broke Venus twice. Venus broke four times, despite all of Serena's aces.

mental toughness: by going after Serena's strengths, she was able to win the mental battle and she showed Serena at that point 2-1 in the first set that you come after me, but I'm standing tough. "Bring it!"

at the same time, Serena went after Venus' weakness on the forehand, but Venus was ready and the forehand held up.

If Venus can continue this approach, not only will their matches be more competitive but big Sis might actually win a few more. :lol:

vwfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 03:07 PM
oh yeah, and she's the best grasscourt player of her generation. and she just surpassed Steffi Graf in career W/L on grass.:eek:

Infiniti2001
Jul 7th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Yep on point... If I were a player on tour, I'd keep watching the video of the final and parts of the 2nd set Zheng semi final in the future.

sweetpeas
Jul 7th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Yes,but can the others player"s do it? Watching is another thing!

ladydiana
Jul 7th, 2008, 04:40 PM
VW fan,
You're analysis is right on. She did beat Serena by attacking her strengths. Serena thought she was gonna attack the Venus second serve and hit the cross court winners, and then come back with an ace. Serena should have know that aces can't win a match.


Venus didn't even go for that many aces. Like Mary Carillo stated in their doubles match that Venus pounded Serena with those body serves. Serena was more frustrated because Venus was pushing her behind the baseline and Serena can't hit behind the baseline. She has to be inside the baseline so she can throw her weight into the shots because she doesn't have the strength to go the longer distance on the run.


Even with that 23 stroke rally showed how Venus was hitting that ball hard and Serena was just sending air shots back, but strategically Venus began to run her side to side and the shots started going deeper and that pushed Serena further behind the baseline and all Serena could do was an air ball out to end the point because she was tired and couldn't run anymore. Then Venus strategically came back with another body blow.


You're right, Venus didn't beat Serena by exploiting her weakness, she just prevented Serena from using her strengths. That was an excellent tactic to use against Serena.


Venus totally devastated Serena because she not only didn't let Serena use her strengths, Venus knew how to play in the gusty winds and she adapted her game and like Mary Carillo stated her long arms and legs allowed her to get to those funky bounces and balls that the wind had blown and she would make those shots, whereas, Serena couldn't because she doesn't volley that well.

tennnisfannn
Jul 7th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I also imagine all the men will also be watching how to take down Federer on grass.

T-GIRL87
Jul 7th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.

Infiniti2001
Jul 7th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start.

This is exactly what I told another friend. Like at the US Open 2001, Venus again showed her mental fortitude and superior athleticism. For every blazing shot of depth and speed that Serena fired toward her, the reply would have even greater depth and higher speed. She simply forced Serena to go for too much, just as she's done other players in the past :shrug: The match was not great, but basically good--- I'm pleased that it was not as pathetic as some of their previous meetings .

harloo
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:04 PM
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.

:worship::worship::worship: Agreed.

I didn't see any alarming strategy from Venus in this match besides serving to her body. The problems that Serena is having during big matches didn't start with the Wimbledon final. When she wants something badly her game becomes tentative and she begins to self-destruct. Not only was this trend present in some of the matches she won this year, but came full circle at the French Open.

In my opinion, she did a better job at Wimbledon with controlling her nerves but fell short in the finals after starting out well. But I imagined that getting back to another Wimbledon final after five years would weigh more heavily on her so the result was expected. This is something that Serena needs to work on and the best way is to play more. :)

Tennisstar86
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Venus beat Serena by simply playing smart consistent from the baseline, and waiting for Serena to self destruct. This match in my opinion is very similiar to the one they played in the U.S open in 2001. Serena started out playing really well, but then suddenly dropped her level after getting off to a good start. Serena needs to find the form and mentality she had against pova at the australian open last year, and even in Miami against Justine this year. In those matches she was able to maintain a level of focus and consistency up unitl the last shot, hitting hard deep returns, winning most of the baseline rallies with controlled agression, as well as finding the angles. Posters have claimed that it has been Serena's lack of movement which has impacted her play, despite the fact that she won in australian not being her fittest. This match in my opinion could have gone the other way around had Serena been able to keep her concentration on the big points and capatalize on her on break points chances. Serena I think in grand slam matches just needs to find the zone, and stay in it for an entire match, instead getting so down and out on herself and becoming too emotional.

Venus was too tough for Serena IMO... Serena relies heavily on that one shot winner play... Against Venus that doesnt work cause shes so fast..... IMO for Serena to have beaten Venus saturday she would have needed to have a net game... which she doesnt.... Serena can hit a reflex volley fine, but from what ive seen she cant hit a good put away volley to save her life..... Everytime she tried (which was rare, but Serena looked akward and uneasy everytime she went up to the net) she dink it into the court and Venus being the fastest player on tour got their easily to hit the winner....

But yeah Venus did beat her by doing what Shriver/ carillo always say when they comment on a williams match "If (opponent) would just hit it at them and make them get out of their own way they'd prolly fair better..

Serena talked about the body serves and how now she knows what to expect.... but I just dont see how shes gonna prepare for this... 129 mph serves into the body.... good luck with that Serena (For some reason i dont think Venus will let Serena practice returning them on the practice court...)

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Venus' own weaknesses were aided by this grass surface. Her slice second serve was very effective on the grass, and it was harder for Serena to attack it whereas on hardcourts those serves would have been pummeled. Serena's kick serve to the backhand is really not as effective on grass as it would be on hardcourts, it just sat up high in Venus' strikezone and she pummeled it. Serena was attacking Venus' forehand down in the beginning of the match, pummeling it with shots with a lot of spin, and she was able to attack the short reply from Venus. Serena knew exactly where and how Venus would serve every time, she knows Venus' game. Venus does not know Serena's game as well, and Venus employed no clever strategy to beat Serena besides serving into the body. Then, as Venus began to serve more intelligently and into the body she stopped doing that and began engaging in backhand to backhand encounters with Venus, which puts Serena at a disadvantage. On grass, Serena didnt have as much time to adjust to an into the body serve from Venus as she can on any other surface. Then when she tried to attack the forehand again towards the end of the match, not only was Venus confidence in the shot so high at that point, but Serena wasn't throwing a lot of junk at Venus' forehand and making her come up with a shot. She really just started rallying with the forehand hoping it would break down, but down 5-7, 5-4 in a Wimbledon final against Venus, thats not going to happen. And even with all of Venus' advantages, her serve, her superior athleticism and speed, her net game, Serena kept it extremely competitive and only lost because she played the big points horribly. How many return errors on second serves did she make when she had break point? Purely mental lapses. As much as the grass neutralizes Venus' weaknesses, the hardcourts are not as merciful. I cant wait for a match on the hardcourts.

Infiniti2001
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:19 PM
Venus was too tough for Serena IMO... Serena relies heavily on that one shot winner play... Against Venus that doesnt work cause shes so fast..... IMO for Serena to have beaten Venus saturday she would have needed to have a net game... which she doesnt.... Serena can hit a reflex volley fine, but from what ive seen she cant hit a good put away volley to save her life..... Everytime she tried (which was rare, but Serena looked akward and uneasy everytime she went up to the net) she dink it into the court and Venus being the fastest player on tour got their easily to hit the winner....

But yeah Venus did beat her by doing what Shriver/ carillo always say when they comment on a williams match "If (opponent) would just hit it at them and make them get out of their own way they'd prolly fair better..

Serena talked about the body serves and how now she knows what to expect.... but I just dont see how shes gonna prepare for this... 129 mph serves into the body.... good luck with that Serena (For some reason i dont think Venus will let Serena practice returning them on the practice court...)

If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:24 PM
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.The body serves and the surface. Dont forget the surface.

Tennisstar86
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.

Did you read my post...... lol

anyways... people talk about how serena rarely plays a match from start to finish anymore where she is just on fire... but when has she ever done it when her opponent hasnt just rolled over? This isnt a new problem... yeah she blitzed Sharapova and henin but in both of those matches neither girl showed Serena anything different or any fight.... so it was easy for her to stay "in the zone"

Bounty Hunter
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Geeze you people.......... we all knew coming into this match it was a family decision that it was Venus' turn to beat Serena in a Grand Slam. Now quit trying to make it look like Venus outplayed Serena..

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

harloo
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
If anyone thinks Venus won only because of the body serves, they're simply deluded. She kept Serena behind the baseline , her serves were on, the double faults were down, her errors were relatively tame, and her usual mental fortitude won out in the end.

I'm just refuting the claims that Venus implored some great tactical strategy to beating Serena in this match. She played consistent baseline tennis as she usually does at Wimbledon. The big flat serve, volleying, and using deep flat shots and her movement is what gives her an advantage over most players on this surface. Even with her gameplay Serena still had numerous chances to win this match. :confused:

Slumpsova
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:37 PM
stop it already. she won 75 64 the world knows it :rolleyes:

Tennisstar86
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:37 PM
I'm just refuting the claims that Venus implored some great tactical strategy to beating Serena in this match. She played consistent baseline tennis as she usually does at Wimbledon. The big flat serve, volleying, and using deep flat shots and her movement is what gives her an advantage over most players on this surface. Even with her gameplay Serena still had numerous chances to win this match. :confused:

she won because shes the queen of grass and is a better player than Serena on grass..... Serena had 0 chances to win this match.. numerous chances or 1 chance = a match point... which Serena never had....

Direwolf
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:42 PM
what a retarded thread....

Venus always almost plays to her opponents strength...

and she won because
she had low unforce error...
cuz she usually makes a lot...

and she played the big points better...

Its all in the unforce errors..

Calypso
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Body serves did a great job. Serena was killing Venus' serve in the first few games! Venus 2nd serve surprised me with its depth and pace, regularly in the 90s. I kept waiting for the double faults, and thankfully they didn't appear!

T-GIRL87
Jul 7th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Well in my opinion, even with the way Venus was serving in this match, I still believe that if Serena had held it together mentally, she could have easily taken at least a set off Venus. Venus, before the final was pushed to several tie- breakers to low ranked players, including Dementieva, who doesn't have a strong serve. Now if these players were able to push the reigning champ, I can't see why Serena Williams, a two champion isn't capable herself. Serena may be a few steps slower and a bit older, but she still pocesses the serve, ground strokes, and athleticism to hang with anybody, including Venus. She just needed to impose herself more, hit freely and cleanly and taken every opportunity that came to her. Odviously against Venus, this is easier said than done, but it's still very doable, it simply takes composure and mental fortitude, something which she needs to improve upon in the grand slams.

sfselesfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 07:23 PM
(1) Employing the body serve.

(2) Out moving Serena...by far.

(3) Exploiting Serena's uncomfort at the net.

(4) Solid returns, particularly on second serves.

(5) Utilizing deep, flat shots.

(6) Reading Serena's serve better than Serena was able to do against Vee.

SF

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Because I'm feeling lazy, here are my thoughts.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=13571796&postcount=17

vwfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Well in my opinion, even with the way Venus was serving in this match, I still believe that if Serena had held it together mentally, she could have easily taken at least a set off Venus. Venus, before the final was pushed to several tie- breakers to low ranked players, including Dementieva, who doesn't have a strong serve. Now if these players were able to push the reigning champ, I can't see why Serena Williams, a two champion isn't capable herself. Serena may be a few steps slower and a bit older, but she still pocesses the serve, ground strokes, and athleticism to hang with anybody, including Venus. She just needed to impose herself more, hit freely and cleanly and taken every opportunity that came to her. Odviously against Venus, this is easier said than done, but it's still very doable, it simply takes composure and mental fortitude, something which she needs to improve upon in the grand slams.I know that you're not trying to say that it was all mental. :confused:

Because when Venus fans say (or said) the boards shut down! :lol:

The reality is that in the later stages of a slam, the mental part of the game is critical. This is especially true for sisters and the mental aspect played its part for all their encounters (and no I'm not saying its the total story because sometimes Venus was just outplayed in at least two of the five Slam finals).

Serena had the mental edge for the finals in 2002-3 (competitiveness and wanting it more), but Venus has recently shown more willingness to play aggressively against Serena, thus her improved head to head in the last four matches and winning 3 out of the four times they've played.

Anyway, I do agree that the surface makes a difference.

They are currently 1-1 in slam finals at the U.S. Open (Venus won in 2001 without dropping a set the entire tournament including a straight sets win over Serena and Serena won in 2002 beating Venus without dropping a set for the entire tournament).

Let's hope we get to see the tie-breaker this summer. :bounce:

bandabou
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Hmmmm..Venus won the MENTAL battle this time. Serena just deflated from all those missed bp's. Specially that volley she missed to go 5-4 up in the first.

court70
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:29 PM
Yep on point... If I were a player on tour, I'd keep watching the video of the final and parts of the 2nd set Zheng semi final in the future.

One problem you have to be able to serve big like Vee, and no one on the tour can serve big like her.

supergrunt
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Serena played bad.

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I know that you're not trying to say that it was all mental. :confused:

Because when Venus fans say (or said) the boards shut down! :lol:That only because the Venus fan tendency is to excuse away 5 slam finals and some great tennis played by Serena Williams by saying Venus was too weak mentally to beat Serena in a big match. Which is generally perceived as being disrespectful and delusional, especially when Venus beat Serena mercilessly and without any qualms in several big matches from the beginning of their careers until Miami 2002.

sfselesfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:54 PM
That only because the Venus fan tendency is to excuse away 5 slam finals and some great tennis played by Serena Williams by saying Venus was too weak mentally to beat Serena in a big match. Which is generally perceived as being disrespectful and delusional, especially when Venus beat Serena mercilessly and without any qualms from the beginning of their careers until Miami 2002.

Venus has stated that she was burnt out after 2001 and Serena was more hungry (having not won a major since 1999 - and only making the final once since).

Take it for what it's worth...but I share that sentiment. Also, people seem to forget Venus's injuries (wrist, knee, and abdominal) in 2002-03. Serena was definitely the better player...then. I think Venus has summed up why.

SF

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Venus has stated that she was burnt out after 2001 and Serena was more hungry (having not won a major since 1999 - and only making the final once since).

Take it for what it's worth...but I share that sentiment. Also, people seem to forget Venus's injuries (wrist, knee, and abdominal) in 2002-03. Serena was definitely the better player...then. I think Venus has summed up why.

SFThat makes more sense than Venus somehow couldnt play aggressively against Serena because of some mental blocked wrapped around beating her.

Tennisstar86
Jul 7th, 2008, 08:59 PM
That only because the Venus fan tendency is to excuse away 5 slam finals and some great tennis played by Serena Williams by saying Venus was too weak mentally to beat Serena in a big match. Which is generally perceived as being disrespectful and delusional, especially when Venus beat Serena mercilessly and without any qualms in several big matches from the beginning of their careers until Miami 2002.

did you see those finals? lol Serena did not play some spectacular tennis... Venus just played worse.... lol you prolly didnt even see them as ive learned most of the diehard serena fans who talk about how great she is didnt even start watching tenni till 2004..... and dont even know the form she brought in 2002...

Anyways... the only mental issue Serena suffers from is thinking shes the 1000X better than everyone else including Venus, and thats just not the case...

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 09:06 PM
did you see those finals? lol Serena did not play some spectacular tennis... Venus just played worse.... lol you prolly didnt even see them as ive learned most of the diehard serena fans who talk about how great she is didnt even start watching tenni till 2004..... and dont even know the form she brought in 2002...

Anyways... the only mental issue Serena suffers from is thinking shes the 1000X better than everyone else including Venus, and thats just not the case...You obviously know nothing of what you speak, arrogant Veetard. Move around.

SV_Fan
Jul 7th, 2008, 10:04 PM
mhm

vwfan
Jul 7th, 2008, 10:12 PM
That only because the Venus fan tendency is to excuse away 5 slam finals and some great tennis played by Serena Williams by saying Venus was too weak mentally to beat Serena in a big match. Which is generally perceived as being disrespectful and delusional, especially when Venus beat Serena mercilessly and without any qualms in several big matches from the beginning of their careers until Miami 2002. Well, I don't know any Venus fans that say Venus should have won all their encounters, but some of us think that Venus should have won some of them.

Venus was outplayed in the Wimbledon 2002 final (though Venus did have a shoulder injury) and the U.S. Open 2002.

Venus was severely injured in the Wimbledon 2003 final, was generally playing better than Serena throughout most of the tournament, but still took Serena to three sets. She probably would have won otherwise. But that's speculation.

Now for the other two finals, I'd say: French 2002, Serena wanted it more, hadn't won a slam in gazillion years, and Venus took her foot off the pedal. She had a better clay court season and during the height of their domination was clearly a better clay court player than Serena. Think: Venus with the camera.

Aus Open 2003. Venus was playing better (Serena was almost beaten twice in the tournament and Venus went into the final, not having dropped a set and schooling Henin along the way, I might add). Venus took it to three sets and I believe again took her foot off the pedal. Had there been anyone else on the other side of the net and had Serena not been about to complete her Serena slam, she would have found a way to win that match. I believe that. We can disagree and that is what discussion boards are for!

Anyway, just glad that Venus won the mental battle this time.

ladydiana
Jul 7th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Geeze you people.......... we all knew coming into this match it was a family decision that it was Venus' turn to beat Serena in a Grand Slam. Now quit trying to make it look like Venus outplayed Serena..


Oh please, give it a rest. Serena just thought she was gonna stand behind the baseline and hit aces and then hit cross court winners. She only beat Ji Zheng because of her serve. Ji Zheng finally figured out too late that Serena can't hit on the run.


Just look at Justine. She's half the size of Serena and she's beaten her at the USO last year, and at Wimbledon and at the FO. Serena's screaming and pumping her fist and just hitting aces don't scare people anymore. They've figured her out.

And to be honest, Maria would have beaten her again had not her serve let her down and she hit all those weak second serves for Serena just to stand in the baseline and pound, and then follow it up with an ace and a fist pump.

But if you run her little butt from side-to-side she loses every point. Justine was good at serve up the tee on the add side and serving to her backhand on the add side. She always prevented Serena from hitting the cross court winner and yelling "come on".


Serena hasn't been past a quarter final in two years, since she won the Australian Open. And she's lost to other lower ranked players because the ran her from side-to-side.


The players are use to Serena's game, just like the men are use to Andy's fast serve. Both of these players have built their games around their serve, and once the players get a read on it, they can take them down because the other parts of their games are weak.


Jennifer Capriati was the best at returning Serena's first and second serves, but most of all she wasn't afraid of Serena because she didn't think Serena was all of that.


Jennifer lost a lot of those games because she never perfected her first serve. But inspite of having a bad first serve, their matches would always go to three sets.

T-GIRL87
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:12 PM
In my opinion, I didn't believe that Serena's mental laspe in this match had anything do with her playing her sister, rather it's more of a mental battle she faces with her self. In australian and the french, she went down in two sets to players whom she has beaten in the past before. And with this straight sets loss to her sister, although it was in the finals, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern forming in Serena's game when it comes big matches in a grand slam. As far those finals that Serena won in 2002 through 2003, I just think that for those brief two years, Serena's game had gone up to a different level, in terms of using her serve, big ground strokes and athlectism to consistently win majors, as well utilizing her weapons to expose the weaknesses in Venus's game, that level however she can only display every once in a while. In my opinion, this match doesn't really seal the deal for me of who's the better player. Their head to head is pretty even, as well as their slam count. I think that both players will have their share of win's and losses to one another in the next couple of years.people make the claim that when both sister's are playing at peak level, Venus is the better player, however I've always felt their very evenly matched, and are both capable of beating the other soundly or getting blown away by the other soundly, depending on who's off that day. If they are both on, their matches can be competive, just like in australia in 2003. Neither sister I think will be dominant in the head to head.

Il Primo!
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:16 PM
Well, I don't know any Venus fans that say Venus should have won all their encounters, but some of us think that Venus should have won some of them.

Venus was outplayed in the Wimbledon 2002 final (though Venus did have a shoulder injury) and the U.S. Open 2002.

Venus was severely injured in the Wimbledon 2003 final, was generally playing better than Serena throughout most of the tournament, but still took Serena to three sets. She probably would have won otherwise. But that's speculation.

Now for the other two finals, I'd say: French 2002, Serena wanted it more, hadn't won a slam in gazillion years, and Venus took her foot off the pedal. She had a better clay court season and during the height of their domination was clearly a better clay court player than Serena. Think: Venus with the camera.

Aus Open 2003. Venus was playing better (Serena was almost beaten twice in the tournament and Venus went into the final, not having dropped a set and schooling Henin along the way, I might add). Venus took it to three sets and I believe again took her foot off the pedal. Had there been anyone else on the other side of the net and had Serena not been about to complete her Serena slam, she would have found a way to win that match. I believe that. We can disagree and that is what discussion boards are for!

Anyway, just glad that Venus won the mental battle this time.

Spot on:worship:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:38 PM
...Serena can't hit on the run.


...Serena's screaming and pumping her fist and just hitting aces don't scare people anymore. They've figured her out.

And to be honest, Maria would have beaten her again had not her serve let her down...

But if you run her little butt from side-to-side she loses every point...

The players are use to Serena's game, just like the men are use to Andy's fast serve...




Lady D', as usual, you sound like an idiot. You haven't learned ANYTHING since your days at venusserenafans forum. You and Dallas have shown up here because you were hoping you could run your mouth and spew venom at Serena.

Your analysis (if you can call it that) above sounds like a whining child who simply had her candy taken away too many times.

EVERY single one of those statements above are FLAT OUT DUMB. They lack any attachment to reality and merely reflect your wishful thinking.

Pathetic, mindless droning as usual.

Brooks.
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:40 PM
seriously when will Venus fans ever learn?

Il Primo!
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:43 PM
seriously when will Venus fans ever learn?

You're so mad that you hate on Venus :haha:

I really feel you though :hug:

Brooks.
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:45 PM
Well, I don't know any Venus fans that say Venus should have won all their encounters, but some of us think that Venus should have won some of them.

Venus was outplayed in the Wimbledon 2002 final (though Venus did have a shoulder injury) and the U.S. Open 2002.

Venus was severely injured in the Wimbledon 2003 final, was generally playing better than Serena throughout most of the tournament, but still took Serena to three sets. She probably would have won otherwise. But that's speculation.

Now for the other two finals, I'd say: French 2002, Serena wanted it more, hadn't won a slam in gazillion years, and Venus took her foot off the pedal. She had a better clay court season and during the height of their domination was clearly a better clay court player than Serena. Think: Venus with the camera.

Aus Open 2003. Venus was playing better (Serena was almost beaten twice in the tournament and Venus went into the final, not having dropped a set and schooling Henin along the way, I might add). Venus took it to three sets and I believe again took her foot off the pedal. Had there been anyone else on the other side of the net and had Serena not been about to complete her Serena slam, she would have found a way to win that match. I believe that. We can disagree and that is what discussion boards are for!

Anyway, just glad that Venus won the mental battle this time.

excuses excuses excuses

Serena has won all four slams for a reason. Her game is effective on ALL surfaces.

The Daviator
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:45 PM
Well, I don't know any Venus fans that say Venus should have won all their encounters, but some of us think that Venus should have won some of them.

Venus was outplayed in the Wimbledon 2002 final (though Venus did have a shoulder injury) and the U.S. Open 2002.

Venus was severely injured in the Wimbledon 2003 final, was generally playing better than Serena throughout most of the tournament, but still took Serena to three sets. She probably would have won otherwise. But that's speculation.

Now for the other two finals, I'd say: French 2002, Serena wanted it more, hadn't won a slam in gazillion years, and Venus took her foot off the pedal. She had a better clay court season and during the height of their domination was clearly a better clay court player than Serena. Think: Venus with the camera.

Aus Open 2003. Venus was playing better (Serena was almost beaten twice in the tournament and Venus went into the final, not having dropped a set and schooling Henin along the way, I might add). Venus took it to three sets and I believe again took her foot off the pedal. Had there been anyone else on the other side of the net and had Serena not been about to complete her Serena slam, she would have found a way to win that match. I believe that. We can disagree and that is what discussion boards are for!

Anyway, just glad that Venus won the mental battle this time.

Serena was up 4-2 in Saturday's final and took her foot off the pedal :shrug: She was pwning Venus but Vee hung tough and the tide turned.

Anyway, it's still 5-2 in GS finals, Venus has some catching up to do but she was definitely the better player this time.

Bounty Hunter
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Lady D', as usual, you sound like an idiot. You haven't learned ANYTHING since your days at venusserenafans forum. You and Dallas have shown up here because you were hoping you could run your mouth and spew venom at Serena.

Your analysis (if you can call it that) above sounds like a whining child who simply had her candy taken away too many times.

EVERY single one of those statements above are FLAT OUT DUMB. They lack any attachment to reality and merely reflect your wishful thinking.

Pathetic as usual.


:lol: We are just missing plato....

When Serena beat Venus, it's because Venus felt sorry for her... :lol: When Venus beat Serena, it's tactical and blah blah blah... the Venuts are just like the commentators of ESPN and NBC..... They are so far up Vee's a$$ as the comentators are of MS, it's too funny.

Grow up Venuts. Venus won this one... her first title of the year to Serena's 3... Serena still has more GS than Venus... When Venus win the FO or and the AO, then you can talk crap, until then, shut up.

Brooks.
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:47 PM
You're so mad that you hate on Venus :haha:

I really feel you though :hug:

it's not that I hate Venus or anything. i've always preferred Serena but Venus' fans have just rubbed me the wrong way since Wimbledon began:tape:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:51 PM
:lol: We are just missing plato....

:lol: Oh man, I'd forgotten all about that bonehead. Well, I'm sure Dallas and Lady D' will go running off to find her, if she's not here already.

It's amazing how true happiness for Vee can get tainted by the smell of SOME of these Vee-only posters.

Stamp Paid
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Rena fans dont laugh too hard..the true gag is that since coming back from injury in 2004, Venus has more slams than Serena.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:57 PM
Rena fans dont laugh too hard..the true gag is that since coming back from injury in 2004, Venus has more slams than Serena.

...and she's earned each one- including this one! She deserves them.

Il Primo!
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:57 PM
it's not that I hate Venus or anything. i've always preferred Serena but Venus' fans have just rubbed me the wrong way since Wimbledon began:tape:


Oh, I'm experiencing this feeling too ...

Infiniti2001
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:15 AM
it's not that I hate Venus or anything. i've always preferred Serena but Venus' fans have just rubbed me the wrong way since Wimbledon began:tape:

Oh the feeling is mutual :tape: the only difference is that it's been way before Wimbledon :shrug:

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:39 AM
Lady D', as usual, you sound like an idiot. You haven't learned ANYTHING since your days at venusserenafans forum. You and Dallas have shown up here because you were hoping you could run your mouth and spew venom at Serena.

Your analysis (if you can call it that) above sounds like a whining child who simply had her candy taken away too many times.

EVERY single one of those statements above are FLAT OUT DUMB. They lack any attachment to reality and merely reflect your wishful thinking.

Pathetic, mindless droning as usual.

Double minded folk are unstable in all of their ways, so just by your name "Doublefist", you don't even matter.


And the thread is about Venus and Serena's match, and I have a right to express my analysis just like you and everybody else. But I don't make comments about what you think because it's just your opinion and at the end of the day, it still doesn't matter because Venus has the trophy and not Serena.


Just face it, Serena hasn't been on a roll in five (5) years. You guys are living in the 2002 and 2003 glory days of Serena and they are gone. Just like the glory days of Venus' 2000 and 2001 days are gone because of other activities and committments.


This is Serena's and Venus' first grand slam in 5 years. Serena's last grand slam was in 2005. What happened in 2006 and 2007? There was no sister standing in her way and preventing her from winning as many titles as she did in 2002 and 2003?


Oops, there was someone preventing her in at least three other titles, and her name was Justine Henin. :lol:


I do think that Serena is a great player and I do think that Serena will win more grand slams. And I do think she will win against Venus, but unlike you, I've never believed that she would win them all. And even when Venus was winning over Serena, I would always say that she would not always win over Serena. I've always held that position and I still do.


I never believed that Kim would always have the advantage over Justine, even when she was winning them all. But Justine finally figured it out and she started winning. That's just how it is in sports.


Only one of Serena's grand slam losses over the past 5 years have come from the hands of Venus. She's been beaten the other 4 years by other players.


Now one thing I have to say is that on Sunday, she sure went out there like a bat outta hell to defeat Venus, but that same Serena didn't even fight Maria that hard to win the Wimbledon title when she faced her. And her knee wasn't bothering her because she had made it to the finals, and well all know that Serena hates to lose to "anybody".


Maria just walked out there and out hit Serena from the baseline and she served just as well. And Serena stood right there and showed all 32 teeth when she accepted that runners up trophy, and she wasn't acting like a sour puss either. She ate her humble pie well :lol:


These other players are use to playing Venus and Serena. They've studied their games and they've been exercising and beefing up their games and they can hang with the sisters till the end. And that's a good thing for tennis.


Just like with Roger. He couldn't have thought that nobody would ever beat him. Roger couldn't stay on top forever. And the same with Raffa. Sooner or later someone on the tour is gonna beat him.


So it's no more than people to show Serena's mistakes, just like it is when we've criticized Venus for not correcting certain flaws in her game.


But on Saturday, Venus played the most important points better. It didn't matter that Serena hit over 12 aces, if the aces didn't come at a time that mattered.


Venus hit at least 5 aces, but she hit them when Serena had break point. She hit her aces at the right time in the game. :lol:

winone23
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Venus and Serena fans can't we all just get along??? :lol::lol::lol: What is boils down to is whether you are a Venus, Serena, or Williams fan we are all connected through the Williams sisters. Let's play nice and be thankful that Venus and Serena saved Wimbledon and won SLAMS over the weekend. Plus the Olympics is coming up and we all need to support the two top Americans! Anyway We should be fighting with Maria, Justine, and Hingis fans :lol::lol::lol:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:10 AM
Double minded folk are unstable in all of their ways...She hit her aces at the right time in the game. :lol:

but unlike you, I've never believed that she would win them all. Once again, "mindless droning." Why don't you do a search, look at ALL my post and find ONCE where've I've said that. Once!

As I said before, "wishful thinking."

If you'd do the search, I think you'd find I've said NEARLY the opposite, but you see what you want to see Lady D', as always. You're delusional.

:yawn:

"Just keep droning droning droning. Just keep droning..." That's why people laughed at you on VSF forum.

...but, for the moment, let's look at your idiotic statements one by one.

1. "Serena can't hit on the run."

That is an all time, hall of fame, stinker. Yes. Venus hits on the run BETTER than Serena (and better than everyone else on tour, for that matter), but no expert out there has or, for that matter, will ever say that about Serena. In fact (since you like to cite Carillo so much), MC was quick to say that the only one better on the move than Serena was Venus. So, you sound like and idiot when you make a sweeping statement like that.

2. "...Serena's screaming and pumping her fist and just hitting aces don't scare people anymore. They've figured her out."

Another DUMB statement. Players have said as recently as this year that their is STILL the "aura" factor when they face the Williams. Further, if I'm not mistaken, Serena has the second best record of the season. So, if that's figuring someone out..., than you're a genius- :rolleyes: .

3. "And to be honest, Maria would have beaten her again had not her serve let her down..."

Maria's serve went away because Serena's return game was devastating. That put ENORMOUS pressure on Maria's serving and she crumble.

4. "But if you run her little butt from side-to-side she loses every point..."

This idiocy doesn't warrant a response.

5. "The players are use to Serena's game, just like the men are use to Andy's fast serve..."

Oh, I see. And how many majors has Rodick won in the last few years?


Your overstated criticisms are moronic and have no basis in reality, but, like I said before, that doesn't concern you.

Tennisation
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:12 AM
Venus beat Serena by a coin toss

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:20 AM
Doublefist,


It doesn't matter what you or I say. In sports or in life nobody wins all of the time. Nobody stays at the top all of the time.


It doesn't matter what I say or what you say because at the end of the day, Venus nor Serena gives a ratz azz about anybody on this board. They are the ones who walked away with $2.5M on Saturday.


Everyone on this board are fans and everyone has a favorite. I don't care that Serena is your favorite, and I don't mind that you have your opinion because it doesn't matter to me.


I don't care what site you use to post on or not because at the end of the day, it's just how we see things. I don't expect you to agree with everything I say and vice versa.


Don't get all bent outta shape over what people express on this board. People have a right to their opinions even if I don't agree with them. But I ain't mad at ya. You're too funny to be mad at. :lol:


Take a chill pill and don't get so offensive over people opinions that will make no difference in your life at the end of the day. I'm quite sure that's how Venus and Serena sees it too. ;)

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:28 AM
I really don't understand Venus' "mentally tired" comment.

She didn't play any tennis after the US Open 2001. Her first tournament after that was 2002 Gold Coast. Yes Venus played about five tournament before Miami (which is a lot for her) but still "mentally tired"? Serena thrashed her in Miami and just carried that confidence on for the remainder of the year.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:30 AM
People have a right to their opinions even if I don't agree with them.

No one said you don't have a right to your opinion. I'm just pointing out the fact that it has no basis in reality.

...of course that's just my opinion- which I have a right to. Right?



Take a chill pill and don't get so offensive over people opinions...Believe it or not I'm quite chill. I find it enjoyable laughing at your same ol' tired, delusional, lunacy.

"Just keep droning, just keep droning., just keep droning, droning droning..." :wavey:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:33 AM
3. "And to be honest, Maria would have beaten her again had not her serve let her down..."

Maria's serve went away because Serena's return game was devastating. That put ENORMOUS pressure on Maria's serving and she crumble.



Thank you!! Sharapova didn't start serving badly in the final. She missed two first serves in her first service game and both of those second serves were smacked away for winners by Serena. Instant pressure on there.

Before the final, Sam Smith said that Sharapova was practising her body serve a lot.

In Sharapova's second service game on the break point she served a first serve into Serena's body. Serena quickly moved out of the way and hit a forehand winner down the line to go up 4-0.

It was Serena's impressive returning that messed over Sharapova's serve in that match. Hell in Japan the week after, it was all about Sharapova's hamstring injury. The shoulder excuse only came about when she was getting beaten in Indian Wells and Miami.

Bounty Hunter
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:39 AM
Venus beat Serena by a coin toss


:lol:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:50 AM
excuses excuses excuses

Serena has won all four slams for a reason. Her game is effective on ALL surfaces.ok. ReeRee fan. Serena is a great player.

We will just have to disagree about whether she was so much a better player than Venus that Venus should lose five grand slam finals to her, including two on grass where even you probably would admit that she is the better player.

They are even in h2hs now and practically even in Grand Slams.

You'll have a heart attack, if Venus catches up in slams. I'll pray for you. :lol:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:53 AM
Lady D', as usual, you sound like an idiot. You haven't learned ANYTHING since your days at venusserenafans forum. You and Dallas have shown up here because you were hoping you could run your mouth and spew venom at Serena.
Really! Are you outing Ladydiana? So pray tell, what was his/her username and what ever happened to the venussernafans site anyway.

sure do miss it, but talk about some knock down drag down fights during the Serena-Venus dominating years. :lol:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:03 AM
excuses excuses excuses

Serena has won all four slams for a reason. Her game is effective on ALL surfaces.
I am not making excuses for Venus. She lost, whatever the reason. No need to overstate your argument. Venus has a pretty good game on ALL surfaces too, since she was in every single slam final that Serena was in from 2002-3.

Anyway, you can't rewrite history, but you can try to explain what happened with just a little bit of perspective and objectivity. Try it, you might like it.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:04 AM
Really! Are you outing Ladydiana? So pray tell, what was his/her username and what ever happened to the venussernafans site anyway.

sure do miss it, but talk about some knock down drag down fights during the Serena-Venus dominating years. :lol:

:lol:

Indeed. :lol:

Ladydiana was Ladydiana over there. There were DEFINITELY some knock down drag down fights over there. The "Venus only" fans over there HATED Serena. That's why I've like it over here so much. The Venus fans here, while arguing strongly for their fave, generally speaking, don't hate on Serena worse than the worst of Juju fans or Sharapova fans. The ones from venusserenafans do.

That's why I just don't want to see LadyDiana start that crap over here, but that's probably not realistic. :shrug:

btw, I think Richie (the site owner) couldn't keep paying the bills. Last I saw, he was asking for donations to keep the site up. But, I think it folded, then came back for a bit then folded again.

Tennisstar86
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:09 AM
I really don't understand Venus' "mentally tired" comment.

She didn't play any tennis after the US Open 2001. Her first tournament after that was 2002 Gold Coast. Yes Venus played about five tournament before Miami (which is a lot for her) but still "mentally tired"? Serena thrashed her in Miami and just carried that confidence on for the remainder of the year.

I think it was a backhanded comment to Serena who refused to say Venus played Great tennis... claiming she played horribly when she (serena) didnt have many unforced errors...so it was a oh you dont want to admit i beat you while you were playing well today ok fine...

That said it was clear FO 2002 Venus didnt want that title...

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:13 AM
I think it was a backhanded comment to Serena who refused to say Venus played Great tennis... claiming she played horribly when she (serena) didnt have many unforced errors...so it was a oh you dont want to admit i beat you while you were playing well today ok fine...

That said it was clear FO 2002 Venus didnt want that title...

:lol:

You have to understand that losing = horrible play to Serena. It's just that simple. Now, whether a person agrees with that is a different story and has no bearing on whether Serena BELIEVES it to be true.

Tennisstar86
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:18 AM
I am not making excuses for Venus. She lost, whatever the reason. No need to overstate your argument. Venus has a pretty good game on ALL surfaces too, since she was in every single slam final that Serena was in from 2002-3.

Anyway, you can't rewrite history, but you can try to explain what happened with just a little bit of perspective and objectivity. Try it, you might like it.

what i find funny about the reetards and proclaiming Serena's greatness on all surfaces... she only made the finals of the French 1 time... just like Venus.....

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:19 AM
I think it was a backhanded comment to Serena who refused to say Venus played Great tennis... claiming she played horribly when she (serena) didnt have many unforced errors...so it was a oh you dont want to admit i beat you while you were playing well today ok fine...

That said it was clear FO 2002 Venus didnt want that title...Well, I don't think she didn't want it; I just don't think she wanted it as much as Serena and she probably thought that there would be other RG finals. Wrong!
She also probably had no idea what pandora's box she was opening as a result of Serena winning that match. :tape:

She was like a deer caught in the headlights during the 2002Wimbledon final that followed. There, she was simply outplayed. It would be hard to argue otherwise. Just fastforward to her face after the match was over. The saddest I've ever seen Venus on court. :sad:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:21 AM
:lol:

Indeed. :lol:

Ladydiana was Ladydiana over there. There were DEFINITELY some knock down drag down fights over there. The "Venus only" fans over there HATED Serena. That's why I've like it over here so much. The Venus fans here, while arguing strongly for their fave, generally speaking, don't hate on Serena worse than the worst of Juju fans or Sharapova fans. The ones from venusserenafans do.

That's why I just don't want to see LadyDiana start that crap over here, but that's probably not realistic. :shrug:

btw, I think Richie (the site owner) couldn't keep paying the bills. Last I saw, he was asking for donations to keep the site up. But, I think it folded, then came back for a bit then folded again.yeah, who could forget Plato. Boy, was she ever a veenut.

And what was the guys name who was the Serena nut, always going back a recounting Serena's accomplishments with statistics? Drove me crazy!:lol:

Those were the days, though!

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:29 AM
what i find funny about the reetards and proclaiming Serena's greatness on all surfaces... she only made the finals of the French 1 time... just like Venus.....

She has also reached the semifinal there, unlike Venus.

V-MAC
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:39 AM
Isn't it better to completely master one surface like Vee has on grass and totally own every one on it rather than be fairly good on all surfaces? :confused: :shrug:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:48 AM
She has also reached the semifinal there, unlike Venus.

shall we count clay court titles: 7 to 3

clay court finals: 5 to 1

rank on clay court career rankings: top ten (9 to be exact) vs. 15

how about win/loss career percentage: 78% vs. 77%

RG doubles titles: 2 vs. 1

So Venus leads by every standard in clay court credentials, except winning RG and that one I am contesting. Remember the visual: Venus with a camera. :lol:

Seriously though, I am just messing with the Serena fans who want to join the other Venus haters by diminishing her accomplishments outside of grass.

Serena has already proved that she is great on every surface. She has got a big sister who is pretty darn good on every surface too.

Bounty Hunter
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:19 AM
yeah, who could forget Plato. Boy, was she ever a veenut.

And what was the guys name who was the Serena nut, always going back a recounting Serena's accomplishments with statistics? Drove me crazy!:lol:

Those were the days, though!


:lol::lol: dang, I forgot about him.. We called him the Stat Man...:lol: When we read all his stats, we were like :scratch::lol: I can't recall his name at the moment, but he gave me free DVDs of Serena's matches.. :)

That place was Venus fans vs Serena fans.... like what is happening with your dumb thread :lol::lol:

Stamp Paid
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:22 AM
Laj was a visionary. Miss him. :sad:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:25 AM
:lol::lol: dang, I forgot about him.. We called him the Stat Man...:lol: When we read all his stats, we were like :scratch::lol: I can't recall his name at the moment, but he gave me free DVDs of Serena's matches.. :)

That place was Venus fans vs Serena fans.... like what is happening with your dumb thread :lol::lol:watch it! :tape:

I was really trying to understand what was different about this match than all the other Grand slam finals they played. But any comparison or analysis of the two gets the fanatics in the respective fanbases :eek:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:26 AM
Laj was a visionary. Miss him. :sad:oh yeah! Laj. What a crazy!!!:lol:

Bounty Hunter
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:27 AM
Laj was a visionary. Miss him. :sad:


Yeah, that's him... thanks Just ;)

Bounty Hunter
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:28 AM
watch it! :tape:



:hug::lol:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 11:59 AM
So Venus leads by every standard in clay court credentials, except winning RG and that one I am contesting. Remember the visual: Venus with a camera. :lol:

:lol: good points, but I have my theories about "Venus with a camera." But, it's for grown ups and probably wouldn't do well in this thread. But at some point, vwfan, I'd like to share it with you.

Seriously though, I am just messing with the Serena fans who want to join the other Venus haters by diminishing her accomplishments outside of grass.
Yeah, when Serena fans start sounding like SpencerCarlos and Venus fans start sounding like Mother Majorie ( :scared: ) You KNOW things have gone too far.

Serena has already proved that she is great on every surface. She has got a big sister who is pretty darn good on every surface too.

Whole heartily agreed! :yeah:

btw, Laj! That was him. I always found his stats dizzying, but awesome. Of course as a fan who leans (ever so slightly) toward Serena, I always appreciated Laj's input! ;)

azinna
Jul 8th, 2008, 12:52 PM
Hey guys. Yes, I agree there was a dynamic to this match comparable to their US Open 2001 final. Except Serena played tons better last Saturday. As did Venus. Which seemed to force Serena to try to find that Aussie Open '07 final level. Except Venus isn't Maria and this last match wasn't on a slow hard court. There are several reasons why Serena has found it hard to re-find and maintain that level anywhere and against anybody (she did it again in Miami against Maria). Reason #1 is that she's human. And may not realize that she didn't win her 2002-03 titles that way.

When I re-watch full matches from that period, three things stand out: (a) she actually used top spin quite a bit, hitting aggressively deep and near the corners, asking that her opponents try to hit winners off that shot; (b) when she went for power, which was often, it was at 80-85%, with her slightly flattened shots landing several inches from either line, she could do that 3-4 times without worrying about errors, she also knew how to come in and knock off the floater efficiently; and (c) she was hopping on the balls of her feet, practically dancing, after every damn stroke. This last point has nothing to do with her knee injury, and everything to do with her movement/mobility and slightly extra weight. I saw that lightness of foot come back for a little while in Berlin. But it was gone by May.

She needs to get all these elements of her real A game back if she wants to feel comfortable against players who admittedly absorb power and hit better than ever before. Meanwhile, I think Venus' "tactics" was to become an even better player than her 2002-03 form.

Chance
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:19 PM
this thread is straight from venusserenafans.com :o Half of me finds it amusing the other half :rolleyes:
As for why Venus won, to state the obvious- V converted her break points! On those big points V's second serve was solid, she was mentally tougher and was more willing to go to the net.
I don't think it's due to some wonderful gameplan that exploited Serena's weaknesses that got the win...

The Dawntreader
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:23 PM
The thing that impressed me with Venus is she competed so ferociously with Serena, she never let points go by with errors and had such belief in her shots. Stark contrast to the other Slam finals, where Venus could lose games in a blink of an eye. She stuck at it on Saturday and it paid off.

Amazing how Venus's second serve was actually more effective than Serena's on the day. She was actually being aggressive with the second delivery and always changing it up. That second serve ace shows just how confident she is with her serve on grass:worship:

Ultimately as well, her movement troubled Serena. Serena, especially in that second set did not seem to be patient enough to work the points, and who can blame her when Venus is tracking every ball back with such interest. It made Serena a little hesitant on her shots too, which was evident on the point to set up 2 match points for venus. Serena had Venus on the run, and could've come to net but didnt and allowed Venus to create a short-ball oppurtunity which she took.

Overall, it was a super match from Venus IMO, one of her best tactically:D:worship:

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Ladydiana was Ladydiana over there. There were DEFINITELY some knock down drag down fights over there. The "Venus only" fans over there HATED Serena. That's why I've like it over here so much. The Venus fans here, while arguing strongly for their fave, generally speaking, don't hate on Serena worse than the worst of Juju fans or Sharapova fans. The ones from venusserenafans do.

That's why I just don't want to see LadyDiana start that crap over here, but that's probably not realistic. :shrug:

btw, I think Richie (the site owner) couldn't keep paying the bills. Last I saw, he was asking for donations to keep the site up. But, I think it folded, then came back for a bit then folded again.

Doublefist, you might as well just suck it up. Serena will not return to the Serena of 2002 and 2003, no more than Venus will return to the Venus of 2000 and 2001. That's just the way it is in sports.


You just have to face the fact that like Venus, Serena will do good to win one or two grand slams a year, if that. Venus hasn't been standing in Serena's way for the past five years. And Serena wasn't injured those years. Now she hurt her thumb at last years Wimbledon, but Justine reaffirmed that win by beating Serena and Venus at the USO on hardcourts.


I'll say it again, Venus nor Serena is gonna just keep making it to all of the grand slam finals because the other women can match them in these tournaments.


And it doesn't matter what I, you, or anybody else says on this board. Venus won and over the years no one will be talking about how she won, but they will give her credit for winning. Just like people kept saying that when Justine didn't acknowledge that she held up her hand at Wimbledon, that it caused Serena to lose that match. Serena fans got mad and stated that it did, but it was Oracene stated that one little wrong call did not cause Serena to lose that match considering she was winning the match.


And this day, nobody talks about that hand incident. They just mention all of the total amount of grand slams that Justine won. After awhile people don't care about the little particulars that occured, they just remember that person getting the title. Well, the same with the sisters. People will just talk about what they've achieved at the end of their careers.


So after their tennis life is over, Venus will be given credit for all of her grand slams and Serena will be given credit for all of her grands slams.


Doublefist you just keep having a baby over what I've stated and I've made statements about Venus too. Not only her, I've made statements about Maria, Justine and Kim.


But unlike you, I'm not gonna go crazy over what you say about any tennis player because it's just your opinion and it matters to no one but you. :lol: :lol:


That's the great thing about an opinion; we all have on :lol:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:33 PM
this thread is straight from venusserenafans.com :o Half of me finds it amusing the other half :rolleyes:
As for why Venus won, to state the obvious- V converted her break points! On those big points V's second serve was solid, she was mentally tougher and was more willing to go to the net.
I don't think it's due to some wonderful gameplan that exploited Serena's weaknesses that got the win...ok. there was no gameplan; she just bumped into that strategy after losing five grand slam finals in a row. way to prepare Venus.:rolleyes:

look Venus approached the match differently than she has in the past and that's why she won. I was merely trying to determine what made the difference. I don't think her winning was as accidental as you seem to think and it sure wouldn't show a lot of respect for Serena's game if all she did was show up and hope for the best.

Besides my point was just the opposite of what you took away: I said she went after Serena's strengths, not that she "exploited Serena's weaknesses." Breathe and read!

And also, it's not hating on Serena to analyze the match. That is just plain ridiculous.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2008, 01:54 PM
:rolleyes:

Chance
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:06 PM
ok. there was no gameplan; she just bumped into that strategy after losing five grand slam finals in a row. way to prepare Venus.:rolleyes:

look Venus approached the match differently than she has in the past and that's why she won. I was merely trying to determine what made the difference. I don't think her winning was as accidental as you seem to think and it sure wouldn't show a lot of respect for Serena's game if all she did was show up and hope for the best.

Besides my point was just the opposite of what you took away: I said she went after Serena's strengths, not that she "exploited Serena's weaknesses." Breathe and read!

And also, it's not hating on Serena to analyze the match. That is just plain ridiculous.

After reading the entire thread, I didn't direct my post at you:)
I've rewatched the final a couple of times and I can completely understand why you would want to analyse the match, but a couple of posters are acting like V totally outplayed Serena... Personally I feel the match was decided by a few points..
At the end of day I'm thrilled Venu's forehand and second serve was solid , that V went to the net and she fought dayum hard!:D
IMHO Vee's game has definitley improved from 2003.

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 02:21 PM
After reading the entire thread, I didn't direct my post at you:)
I've rewatched the final a couple of times and I can completely understand why you would want to analyse the match, but a couple of posters are acting like V totally outplayed Serena... Personally I feel the match was decided by a few points..
At the end of day I'm thrilled Venu's forehand and second serve was solid , that V went to the net and she fought dayum hard!:D
IMHO Vee's game has definitley improved from 2003.


Chance you are right. What made the difference is Venus converted on her break points and Serena only converted on one of hers. And it was the second serves that won the match and not the first serves.


We all know that Serena will hit a lot of aces and if she gets a good first serve, Venus is not gonna be able to return all of them. That's a given.


And we know that if Venus hits aces and if she consistently serves booming first serves that Serena will not be able to return all of hers either. That's a given.


But the difference was the second serve. On grass Serena's kick serve sat up high into the air for Venus to attack easily. And Venus had been hitting second serves in the 90's and 100's all that week and she made a statement in her semifinal interview that she was gonna add a lot of spin to them. And the spin that she added kept them low and out of Serena's strike zone.


That's what made the difference in the match. It was just the few big points that mattered, Venus exploited them better and she won the game. It wasn't a blow out, it was a close match with Venus winning by a break in each set.

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:03 PM
After reading the entire thread, I didn't direct my post at you:)
I've rewatched the final a couple of times and I can completely understand why you would want to analyse the match, but a couple of posters are acting like V totally outplayed Serena... Personally I feel the match was decided by a few points..
At the end of day I'm thrilled Venu's forehand and second serve was solid , that V went to the net and she fought dayum hard!:D
IMHO Vee's game has definitley improved from 2003.No harm. No foul. We're cool.

Infiniti2001
Jul 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
this thread is straight from venusserenafans.com :o Half of me finds it amusing the other half :rolleyes:
As for why Venus won, to state the obvious- V converted her break points! On those big points V's second serve was solid, she was mentally tougher and was more willing to go to the net.
I don't think it's due to some wonderful gameplan that exploited Serena's weaknesses that got the win...

Unlike yours truly, the OP is a fan of both sisters and I don't think his/her intention was to make it about Venus fans vs her sisters fans :shrug:The thread is about how Vee won. I'm just so tired of paranoid posters who blame Venus fans for shit :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Jul 8th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Venus beat Serena because Venus stayed calm and focused and continued to play up to her strengths. Venus kept her shots hard and deep to the corners. Just kept the ball moving deep during each shot. She also beat Serena because Venus has a much much better NET game. Venus won some crucial points due to her volleying. She also beat Serena becuase she played better thru the wind. Venus just took it to Serena. She really wanted the title more than baby sis. She attacked Serena's first and second serve. She also moved Serena around and didn't give her many short balls.
Venus USED MORE ANGLES IN THIS MATCH! She played the angle and then went up the line.

Venus continued to remain POSITIVE and played her strengths and continued to ATTACK Serena's STRENGTH'S

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Doublefist,...

:yawn: droning, droning, droning, droning, STUPID STATEMENT, droning, droning, droning, DUMB REMARK, droning, droning droning, DELUSIONAL STATEMENT, droning, droning, etc etc :yawn:


....we all have on(sic) :lol:

As you can see, above, I've taken the liberty of TRANSLATING your, otherwise, disjointed lunacy.

Same ol' Lady Diana. :rolleyes: arguing with the wind- an imbecile then and now. :haha: I would have thought the years had taught you better. :wavey: Anyway, do please keep posting. Comedy is essential around here.

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 07:19 PM
As you can see, above, I've taken the liberty of TRANSLATING your, otherwise, disjointed lunacy.

Same ol' Lady Diana. :rolleyes: arguing with the wind- an imbecile then and now. :haha: I would have thought the years had taught you better. :wavey: Anyway, do please keep posting. Comedy is essential around here.


Doublefist it doesn't matter if you trash me or not, it doesn't change the fact that Venus won because she played the points that matter.


VENUS EBONY STARR WILLIAMS THE 2008 WIMBLEDON CHAMPION!!!!!!


Now I'll watch Venus win the Olympic Gold in the Singles and Doubles with Serena for the second time.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2008, 07:37 PM
VENUS EBONY STARR WILLIAMS THE 2008 WIMBLEDON CHAMPION!!!!!!


Now I'll watch Venus win the Olympic Gold in the Singles and Doubles with Serena for the second time.

This is the only sensible thing I've ever seen you write. Congratulations..., and, indeed, good luck to Vee. ...and for the record, I wouldn't change the results of Wimby if could (except for wanting to see a third set). Venus played better and deserved the win. You see I have no problem with that, as I love BOTH sisters and wouldn't trash one at the expense of the other or accuse the family of corruption (as you used to both publicly and privately on vsf forum)- an inference even Venus finds abhorrent.

So, congratulations to your first sensible post, and good luck to BOTH girls come the Olympics. :wavey:

Infiniti2001
Jul 8th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Check out some of the points Vee won :p

QBdpIFT_v2U
feolYWPAr0o
5Tmu6McEAyw
ePLlCCQH9Eg
g7Fkr9mNyGI
lCIkXGGL5bA
ghV8-UsoUB0

geoepee
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the points Infiniti :D

ladydiana
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:03 PM
First of all Doublefist, I wasn't critizing Serena. I just agreed with vwfan and the analysis he/she gave and I gave my thoughts on the match as well.


You are the one that had the bee stuck up your butt and went all off and pushed a baby out your butt. You act like no one can critique Serena's game, but I can just like I critique Venus', Maria's, Jelena's, Dementieva's, Ana's and everyone elses game. I thought the match was a good match but I did see where Venus capitalized on the important points and Serena didn't. That's just the bottom line.


And if you don't like it you know you can kiss me where the sun don't shine because I am gonna continue to critique Serena, Venus and anybody else if I want to. It's just sports.

Destiny
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Venus won :banana:

serenus_2k8
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:05 PM
First of all Doublefist, I wasn't critizing Serena. I just agreed with vwfan and the analysis he/she gave and I gave my thoughts on the match as well.


You are the one that had the bee stuck up your butt and went all off and pushed a baby out your butt. You act like no one can critique Serena's game, but I can just like I critique Venus', Maria's, Jelena's, Dementieva's, Ana's and everyone elses game. I thought the match was a good match but I did see where Venus capitalized on the important points and Serena didn't. That's just the bottom line.


And if you don't like it you know you can kiss me where the sun don't shine because I am gonna continue to critique Serena, Venus and anybody else if I want to. It's just sports.


:haha: Oh wait :spit: Peace shattered!

harloo
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:27 PM
Well, I don't know any Venus fans that say Venus should have won all their encounters, but some of us think that Venus should have won some of them.

Venus was outplayed in the Wimbledon 2002 final (though Venus did have a shoulder injury) and the U.S. Open 2002.

Venus was severely injured in the Wimbledon 2003 final, was generally playing better than Serena throughout most of the tournament, but still took Serena to three sets. She probably would have won otherwise. But that's speculation.

Now for the other two finals, I'd say: French 2002, Serena wanted it more, hadn't won a slam in gazillion years, and Venus took her foot off the pedal. She had a better clay court season and during the height of their domination was clearly a better clay court player than Serena. Think: Venus with the camera.

Aus Open 2003. Venus was playing better (Serena was almost beaten twice in the tournament and Venus went into the final, not having dropped a set and schooling Henin along the way, I might add). Venus took it to three sets and I believe again took her foot off the pedal. Had there been anyone else on the other side of the net and had Serena not been about to complete her Serena slam, she would have found a way to win that match. I believe that. We can disagree and that is what discussion boards are for!

Anyway, just glad that Venus won the mental battle this time.




The only one slam I thought Venus deserved and was on the verge of winning was Wimbledon 2003. She played excellent tennis in the final despite having the groin injury. However, the other slams finals you mentioned all went to the better player during that time. The fact that leading up to those slams Serena was playing excellent and aggressive tennis can't be denied. Today she's a shadow of that player so a loss on grass to Venus is expected.

harloo
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:34 PM
:lol:

Indeed. :lol:

Ladydiana was Ladydiana over there. There were DEFINITELY some knock down drag down fights over there. The "Venus only" fans over there HATED Serena. That's why I've like it over here so much. The Venus fans here, while arguing strongly for their fave, generally speaking, don't hate on Serena worse than the worst of Juju fans or Sharapova fans. The ones from venusserenafans do.

That's why I just don't want to see LadyDiana start that crap over here, but that's probably not realistic. :shrug:

btw, I think Richie (the site owner) couldn't keep paying the bills. Last I saw, he was asking for donations to keep the site up. But, I think it folded, then came back for a bit then folded again.

:haha::haha::lol::help:

I remember Ladydiana's rants about Serena, she hated her with a passion. But so did the majority of the board members on that site. Remember when it got so bad that Ritchie split the board up in two fan sections? I'm just surprised after all these years of silence Lady Dye has come out to wreck havoc on WTAWORLD. :tape:

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2008, 10:03 PM
The only one slam I thought Venus deserved and was on the verge of winning was Wimbledon 2003. She played excellent tennis in the final despite having the groin injury. However, the other slams finals you mentioned all went to the better player during that time. The fact that leading up to those slams Serena was playing excellent and aggressive tennis can't be denied.Ok. We disagree. Fair enough.

However, it can be said that Serena was not "playing excellent and aggressive tennis" during the Australian Open 2003 or even in the clay court events leading up to RG 2002, certainly not in comparison to Venus.

Venus entered the Aus Open final not having dropped a set and beating JH decisively in the semi-final matchup. Any other player in that final, I believe that even if she wasn't playing well, she would have found a way to win. Period. My opinion, but think Wimbledon 2005.

Venus was undefeated during the clay court season leading into RG and then withdrew from one event after she injured her hand/wrist picking up luggage. She had far more experience and success on clay than Serena did at the time; Serena having one only one clay court title at the time, I believe. Venus didn't let Serena win, like some imply, but she did take her foot off the pedal and didn't fight as hard. Again, anyone else on the other side of the net: TOAST!

But even if I concede you all the slam finals that they played, and we agree on Wimbledon 2003 that means that Venus would have more slam titles and Venus would be even more established as the best grasscourt player of her generation. The only thing that would be separating them then would be the # of weeks at number one though Venus does have the Olympic gold in singles. Their career accomplishments would be pretty close, h2hs slightly favoring Venus 9-8, so it would be pretty hard to say that Serena was consistently the better player. Right.

azinna
Jul 8th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks for the points, Infiniti. Serena played well and quite aggressively for most of the match. Venus has just improved her game from 2003 -- at least on grass -- with a better 2nd serve, forehand, net game and consistent power and placement. She's now very comfortable against the hardest of hitters, on defense, offense, in neutral. Serena is far from a shadow of her 2002-03 self, but she needs to develop -- as Venus has -- a greater variety of ways to win points. Bottom line.

Infiniti2001
Jul 8th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the points, Infiniti. Serena played well and quite aggressively for most of the match. Venus has just improved her game from 2003 -- at least on grass -- with a better 2nd serve, forehand, net game and consistent power and placement. She's now very comfortable against the hardest of hitters, on defense, offense, in neutral. Serena is far from a shadow of her 2002-03 self, but she needs to develop -- as Venus has -- a greater variety of ways to win points. Bottom line.

Anytime :wavey: Do you know some fucktard bad repped me for posting them? :haha::help:

Il Primo!
Jul 8th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Anytime :wavey: Do you know some fucktard bad repped me for posting them? :haha::help:

:lol::help:

Stamp Paid
Jul 9th, 2008, 12:29 AM
Anytime :wavey: Do you know some fucktard bad repped me for posting them? :haha::help:Yes I did. But hell, you've bad repped me for saying Venus' hair looked a mess! So dont act like you aren't just as silly, gal.

BTW Venus said its time for annual post-Wimby Brazilian wax. Time for you to get cracking, eh?

ikarinokami
Jul 9th, 2008, 12:55 AM
Doublefist, you might as well just suck it up. Serena will not return to the Serena of 2002 and 2003, no more than Venus will return to the Venus of 2000 and 2001. That's just the way it is in sports.


You just have to face the fact that like Venus, Serena will do good to win one or two grand slams a year, if that. Venus hasn't been standing in Serena's way for the past five years. And Serena wasn't injured those years. Now she hurt her thumb at last years Wimbledon, but Justine reaffirmed that win by beating Serena and Venus at the USO on hardcourts.


I'll say it again, Venus nor Serena is gonna just keep making it to all of the grand slam finals because the other women can match them in these tournaments.


And it doesn't matter what I, you, or anybody else says on this board. Venus won and over the years no one will be talking about how she won, but they will give her credit for winning. Just like people kept saying that when Justine didn't acknowledge that she held up her hand at Wimbledon, that it caused Serena to lose that match. Serena fans got mad and stated that it did, but it was Oracene stated that one little wrong call did not cause Serena to lose that match considering she was winning the match.


And this day, nobody talks about that hand incident. They just mention all of the total amount of grand slams that Justine won. After awhile people don't care about the little particulars that occured, they just remember that person getting the title. Well, the same with the sisters. People will just talk about what they've achieved at the end of their careers.


So after their tennis life is over, Venus will be given credit for all of her grand slams and Serena will be given credit for all of her grands slams.


Doublefist you just keep having a baby over what I've stated and I've made statements about Venus too. Not only her, I've made statements about Maria, Justine and Kim.


But unlike you, I'm not gonna go crazy over what you say about any tennis player because it's just your opinion and it matters to no one but you. :lol: :lol:


That's the great thing about an opinion; we all have on :lol:


I have to disent from this opinion. it is certainly true that 2001-2002 venus was more consistant, but there is no way ever, that 2001-2002 venus is as good as the venus who destroyed maria sharapova in the 2007 wimby or played the 2008 wimby final. the 2007-2008 venus, moves better, serves harder and volleys better. The only advantage the younger 2001-2002 venus has over the old is she was not as prone to tanking on lesser competetion, and was more patient.

My personal opnion is that the two sisters are going to dominate for awhile. As a the commenters from johnny mac, tracy, chrissy, martina have said they are head and shoulders better than anyone else. I think what has held them back is desire, venus only seemed to show it at wimbledon, and serena only when she has maria in front of her.

I think now though, serena has a huge chip on her shoulder, because for the first time, she got beat, by a better player. I think she will be on a mission to prove that she is the best.

I think venus will also be on a mission to be in the same class as her hero billy jean.

Marshmallow
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Thanx for the vids Infiniti. (Bad repped :tape:) Seriously though, I actually forgot how well Venus played. Holistically speaking I thought serena could have played a bit better, but Venus was pretty amazing. Just so solid at everthing. Damn rain delay :sobbing: If it wasn't for the rain delay that allowed Fed to find his serve, that match could have ended in 3 sets and people would be hailing this as a great final. They are, but it's been overshadowed :bigcry:

Still best wimbledon ever. :D

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:21 AM
Ok. We disagree. Fair enough.

However, it can be said that Serena was not "playing excellent and aggressive tennis" during the Australian Open 2003 or even in the clay court events leading up to RG 2002, certainly not in comparison to Venus.

Venus was undefeated during the clay court season leading into RG and then withdrew from one event after she injured her hand/wrist picking up luggage. She had far more experience and success on clay than Serena did at the time; Serena having one only one clay court title at the time, I believe. Venus didn't let Serena win, like some imply, but she did take her foot off the pedal and didn't fight as hard. Again, anyone else on the other side of the net: TOAST!


I don't agree with that. In the lead up to RG 2002 Venus won Amelia Island and lost the Betty Barclay Cup final to Clijsters. Serena reached the QF of Amelia and Charleston (I think that's right, she lost to Petrova and Schnyder during those two events). She then went to Germany and lost in the final to Justine, 7-6 in the third and then she won in Rome.

So I think Serena did have the better build up to RG. That being said, Venus was still the better clay court player leading up to that slam and imo really should have won that title at least once already (2001 :sobbing: )

harloo
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Ok. We disagree. Fair enough.

However, it can be said that Serena was not "playing excellent and aggressive tennis" during the Australian Open 2003 or even in the clay court events leading up to RG 2002, certainly not in comparison to Venus.

Fair point.
I remember Serena having difficulty in the first round of the AO 2003 and playing her way into the tournament from there on out and almost losing to Kim Clijsters in the semis. Everyone thought her level was going to be poor in the final but she raised it tremendously. In my opinion, the AO 2003 final was one of the sisters best match-ups yet. At the time Serena could shake off a bad performance and show up the next match but nowadays that's not the case.

RG 2002- I thought Serena played decent leading up to RG 2002. I remember the buzz surrounding her play and most tennis experts felt like it was her year to win the French. I thought Venus played well also, the injury was unfortunate but didn't prevent her from playing. For some reason that tournament felt like Serena's after she defeated Capriati for the first time in a slam.


Venus entered the Aus Open final not having dropped a set and beating JH decisively in the semi-final matchup. Any other player in that final, I believe that even if she wasn't playing well, she would have found a way to win. Period. My opinion, but think Wimbledon 2005.


I would argue that Venus has never been that successful at the AO. She played well during those two weeks but in the final Serena was able to raise her level. In my opinion, it could have went either way. I've watched that match a few times and I thought both played well, it was just the serve in the end that helped Serena come out on top.

Venus was undefeated during the clay court season leading into RG and then withdrew from one event after she injured her hand/wrist picking up luggage. She had far more experience and success on clay than Serena did at the time; Serena having one only one clay court title at the time, I believe. Venus didn't let Serena win, like some imply, but she did take her foot off the pedal and didn't fight as hard. Again, anyone else on the other side of the net: TOAST!

I admit that Venus might have taken her foot off the pedal, at least you're one of the few Venus only fans who doesn't attribute Serena's wins to Venus giving them to her. I understand you're position as you thought maybe Venus could have been a bit more aggressive in her match-ups with Serena. Agreed. I just thought after Serena's win over Capriati in the semis their was no way she was going to lose the final.


But even if I concede you all the slam finals that they played, and we agree on Wimbledon 2003 that means that Venus would have more slam titles and Venus would be even more established as the best grasscourt player of her generation. The only thing that would be separating them then would be the # of weeks at number one though Venus does have the Olympic gold in singles. Their career accomplishments would be pretty close, h2hs slightly favoring Venus 9-8, so it would be pretty hard to say that Serena was consistently the better player. Right.
[/quote]

I've never refuted that Venus wasn't the best grass court player of her generation. It would be foolish for me to state otherwise. However, until Venus consistently win titles outside of Wimbledon I feel Serena is a better overall player. Honestly, I didn't expect Serena to defeat Venus at Wimbledon this year considering her footwork and the problems with her groundstrokes. :)

azinna
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:04 AM
Anytime :wavey: Do you know some fucktard bad repped me for posting them? :haha::help:

What??? This is really getting outta hand.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:25 AM
...You are the one that had the bee stuck up your butt and went all off and pushed a baby out your butt...
:weirdo: :lol: the images your sick mind comes up with. :lol:

...And if you don't like it you know you can kiss me where the sun don't shine because I am gonna continue to critique Serena, Venus and anybody else if I want to. It's just sports.

:haha: Now who's the one who's gettin' all worked up and needs to chill. Poor baby, :hug: . Lady Di' please do continue to criticize Serena, because you are straight COMEDY! I guess it's probably good you haven't changed since VSF forum days. Your vacuous, mindless drivel never ceases to disappoint. So, by all means, please continue to critique whomever you like...

..., just don't be surprised your inept, asinine drivel you call a critique gets duly blasted.

:haha::haha::lol::help:

I remember Ladydiana's rants about Serena, she hated her with a passion. But so did the majority of the board members on that site. Remember when it got so bad that Ritchie split the board up in two fan sections? I'm just surprised after all these years of silence Lady Dye has come out to wreck havoc on WTAWORLD. :tape:

:lol: Yeah..., "She's baaaAAACK!" :scared: :lol: . Yeah, I remember when Richie split up the board (something many of us asked him to do long before it got so bad). Even after that, "Venus Only" fans would come into the Serena forum and spew their bile. :rolleyes:

Just when we thought that Vee and Serena fans could get along, shake hands and celebrate Lady Diana shows up and starts all sorts of mess. :help:

VS Fan
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:31 AM
Ladydiana said:
This is Serena's and Venus' first grand slam in 5 years. Serena's last grand slam was in 2005. What happened in 2006 and 2007? There was no sister standing in her way and preventing her from winning as many titles as she did in 2002 and 2003?
----------------------
Let me explain what happened in 2007: Serena WON the Australian Open Beating the #1 player 6-1, 6-2 while ranked #81. Venus WON Wimbledon seeded something like #23 , knocking off Maria along the way. (Fourth Round)
Note: 2004 and 2006 are the only calender years since 1999 that either Venus or Serena did not hold at least ONE slam title.
1999: Serena One
2000: Venus Two
2001: Venus Two
2002: Serena Three
2003: Serena Two
2005: Serena One, Venus One
2007: Serena One, Venus One
2008: Venus One
Not bad for a couple of sisters!
Update: They have actually HELD a Grand Slam title(s) in every year since 1999, only WON titles in years mentioned above!

Karsten Braasch
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:32 AM
This is bullshit.

Venus beat Serena because Richard said so and made a big bet on Venus.

VS Fan
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:50 AM
This is bullshit.

Venus beat Serena because Richard said so and made a big bet on Venus.
:confused::confused::confused:
If this is true, you would have to say that they are much better than Pro Wrestling at putting on a convincing show.
If they can hit serves, returns and winners with so few errors in a fixed match, there would be NO WAY any other WTA player could EVER win a match from either sister.:bounce:

vwfan
Jul 9th, 2008, 02:53 AM
I don't agree with that. In the lead up to RG 2002 Venus won Amelia Island and lost the Betty Barclay Cup final to Clijsters. Serena reached the QF of Amelia and Charleston (I think that's right, she lost to Petrova and Schnyder during those two events). She then went to Germany and lost in the final to Justine, 7-6 in the third and then she won in Rome.

So I think Serena did have the better build up to RG. That being said, Venus was still the better clay court player leading up to that slam and imo really should have won that title at least once already (2001 :sobbing: )I stand corrected. I usually have Venus career in my heads--the ups and downs. I am probably confusing her 2002 clay season with her 2006 season where she was undefeated and then got injured. I just recall being concerned about her injury when she had an otherwise good season and that all the commentators talking about how Venus had a better track record on clay.

I completely agree that it is so sad and too bad that Venus never cracked RG. I hope that it's not to late, but if it is I'll certainly take "best grass player of her generation."

vwfan
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:01 AM
Fair point.
I remember Serena having difficulty in the first round of the AO 2003 and playing her way into the tournament from there on out and almost losing to Kim Clijsters in the semis. Everyone thought her level was going to be poor in the final but she raised it tremendously. In my opinion, the AO 2003 final was one of the sisters best match-ups yet. At the time Serena could shake off a bad performance and show up the next match but nowadays that's not the case.

RG 2002- I thought Serena played decent leading up to RG 2002. I remember the buzz surrounding her play and most tennis experts felt like it was her year to win the French. I thought Venus played well also, the injury was unfortunate but didn't prevent her from playing. For some reason that tournament felt like Serena's after she defeated Capriati for the first time in a slam.



I would argue that Venus has never been that successful at the AO. She played well during those two weeks but in the final Serena was able to raise her level. In my opinion, it could have went either way. I've watched that match a few times and I thought both played well, it was just the serve in the end that helped Serena come out on top.


I admit that Venus might have taken her foot off the pedal, at least you're one of the few Venus only fans who doesn't attribute Serena's wins to Venus giving them to her. I understand you're position as you thought maybe Venus could have been a bit more aggressive in her match-ups with Serena. Agreed. I just thought after Serena's win over Capriati in the semis their was no way she was going to lose the final.




I've never refuted that Venus wasn't the best grass court player of her generation. It would be foolish for me to state otherwise. However, until Venus consistently win titles outside of Wimbledon I feel Serena is a better overall player. Honestly, I didn't expect Serena to defeat Venus at Wimbledon this year considering her footwork and the problems with her groundstrokes. :)[/QUOTE]

great post and thanks for a thoughtful and far discussion of the serena/venus matchups.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:01 AM
I completely agree that it is so sad and too bad that Venus never cracked RG. I hope that it's not to late, but if it is I'll certainly take "best grass player of her generation."

I don't think it's too late at all.

My only concern for her on clay has always been her body being fit enough to grind and her forehand holding up. If, at RG '09, she plays anything like she did Saturday, she should be in the final. She has the movement (if not the over vaunted slide). She has the strokes- if she stays consistent. Yes, her strokes aren't classic dirtballer topspins, but that's not absolutely necessary on the Women's side of things to win RG- perhaps to dominate, alla Juju- but not to manage one title. If it was, Kuz and Momo would have won by now. Well, maybe not Momo, as she is a bit of a head case.

harloo
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:06 AM
I've never refuted that Venus wasn't the best grass court player of her generation. It would be foolish for me to state otherwise. However, until Venus consistently win titles outside of Wimbledon I feel Serena is a better overall player. Honestly, I didn't expect Serena to defeat Venus at Wimbledon this year considering her footwork and the problems with her groundstrokes. :)

great post and thanks for a thoughtful and far discussion of the serena/venus matchups.[/quote]

No, thank you. I think we should be proud of what they both accomplished. I keep thinking the sisters only have a few more years left so hopefully they keep reaching finals and challenging each other. ;) It's been an interesting ride so far.

harloo
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:17 AM
:lol: Yeah..., "She's baaaAAACK!" :scared: :lol: . Yeah, I remember when Richie split up the board (something many of us asked him to do long before it got so bad). Even after that, "Venus Only" fans would come into the Serena forum and spew their bile. :rolleyes:

Just when we thought that Vee and Serena fans could get along, shake hands and celebrate Lady Diana shows up and starts all sorts of mess. :help:

:lol: When I saw Ladydiana pop up on WTAworld it was like the dead had risen. All the memories of the members on venusserenafans fighting came back.:o And now she's back......and the sad fact is that Lady Dye hasn't changed one bit. :eek: A big mess.:lol:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 9th, 2008, 03:45 AM
:lol: When I saw Ladydiana pop up on WTAworld it was like the dead had risen. All the memories of the members on venusserenafans fighting came back.:o And now she's back......and the sad fact is that Lady Dye hasn't changed one bit. :eek: A big mess.:lol:

and apparently neither are the people she stirs up. :wavey::help: