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Cp6uja
Apr 9th, 2008, 06:13 PM
©laycourt ®anking

This Ranking is based on 3 best claycourt results in last 12 months + bonus 50% of best 2005-2006 claycourt result + 30% of career best claycourt result.

Exception Rule:
If 50% of players 2nd best 2005-2006 result is better than 3rd 2007 best result they will replace 3rd best 2007 result.


©laycourt ®anking after 2007 season CLUB 500+
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 270-Warsaw07win, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 430-Berlin07win, 125-AI07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1575
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Charleston07win, 430-Rome07win, 195x0.50-Berlin05sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1542.5
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Berlin07ru, 300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1410
5. Nadia Petrova (190-Amelia07ru, 110-Berlin07qf, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 875
6. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 65-Istambul07sf, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 872.5
7. Serena Williams (250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, *450x0.30-RG03sf, 70x0.50-Amelia05, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 830
8. Dinara Safina (300-Charleston07ru, 140-RG07r4, 110-Berlin07qf, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 300x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 765
9. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, *250x0.30-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
10. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Venus Williams (195-Charleston07sf, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 717.5
12. Elena Dementieva (140-Istanbul07win, 110-Rome07qf, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 300x0.50-Charleston05ru, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 680
13. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
14. Tatiana Golovin (275-Amelia07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 90x0.50-RG05r3, 195xCharleston05sf, 275x0.30-Amelia07win) - 610
15. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5
16. Anabel Medina (140-RG07r4, 140-Strasbourg07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 140*0.50-Strasbourg05win, 140*0.30-Strasbourg05win) - 502




UPDATED 2008 VERSION (CLUB 500+)
NR. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 60-Berlin08r3, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2360
1. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Rome08win, 430x0.50-Rome07win, 430x0.50-Charleston07sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1445
1. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 195-Berlin08sf, 430x0.50-Berlin07win, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1445
3. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 275-Amelia08win, 195-Rome08sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1180
4. Serena Williams (430-Charleston08win, 250-RG07qf, 110-Rome08qf, 110x0.50-Rome07qf, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 1145
5. Svetlana Kuznetsova (250-RG07qf, 60-Rome08r3, 300x0.50-Berlin07ru, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1020
6. Dinara Safina (430-Berlin08win, 140-RG07r4, 300x0.50-Charleston07ru, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 430x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 974
7. Elena Dementieva (300-Berlin08ru, 195-Charleston08sf, 140-Istanbul07win, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 915
8. Alize Cornet (300-Rome08ru, 195-Charleston08sf, 125-Amelia08sf, 43x0.50-Acapulco07qf(q), 300x0.30-Rome08ru) - 731.5
9. Vera Zvonareva (300-Charleston08ru, 140-Prague08win, 60-Rome08r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 300x0.30-Charleston08sf) - 687.5
10. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 680
11. Venus Williams (90-RG07r3, 110-Rome08qf, 195x0.50-Charleston07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 632.5
12. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
13. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 195-Rome08sf, 90x0.50xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 627.5
14. Nadia Petrova (35-Berlin08r2, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 610
15. Patty Schnyder (110-Rome08qf, 140-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 587.5


2008 END RANKINGS (CLUB 500+)
1. Ana Ivanovic (1000-RG08win, 195-Berlin08sf, 700x0.50-RG07ru, 430x0.50-Berlin07win, 1000x0.30-RG08win) - 2060
2. Dinara Safina (700-RG08ru, 430-Berlin08win, 300x0.50-Charleston07ru, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 700x0.30-RG08ru) - 1615
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG08sf, 430-Rome08win, 430x0.50-Rome07win, 450x0.50-RG07sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1455
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (450-RG08sf, 60-Rome08r3, 300x0.50-Berlin07ru, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1220
5. Serena Williams (430-Charleston08win, 90-RG07r3, 110-Rome08qf, 250x0.50-RG07qf, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 1055
6. Elena Dementieva (250-RG08qf, 300-Berlin08ru, 195-Charleston08sf, 140x0.50-Istanbul07win, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 1025
7. Maria Sharapova (140-RG08r4, 275-Amelia08win, 195-Rome08sf, 450x0.50-RG07sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 970
8. Alize Cornet (300-Rome08ru, 195-Charleston08sf, 125-Amelia08sf, 43x0.50-Acapulco07qf(q), 300x0.30-Rome08ru) - 731.5
9. Vera Zvonareva (300-Charleston08ru, 140-Prague08win, 60-Rome08r3, 140-RG08r4, 300x0.30-Charleston08sf) - 730
10. Patty Schnyder (250-RG08qf, 110-Rome08qf, 140x0.50-RG07r4, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 670
11. Victoria Azarenka (195-Berlin08sf, 140-RG08r4, 80-Prague08ru, 80x0.50-Estoril07ru, 195x0.30-Berlin08sf) - 513.5

Slutiana
Apr 9th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Whatever. I don't see why people can't just do the clay ranking from the 2007 point of view and stop being extra. That's just my take on it. :o

дalex
Apr 9th, 2008, 07:12 PM
WTF? :spit:

Lovin' this formula! :haha:

Bruno71
Apr 9th, 2008, 07:16 PM
WTF? :spit:

Lovin' this formula! :haha:

The "Ana" formula ;) So now we just need the "Sveta" formula, the "Venus" formula, the "Serena" formula, and the "Lindsay" formula :lol:

Slutati
Apr 9th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Oh, please that's so wrong.
The real number 1 is Tatiana Golovin.

goldenlox
Apr 9th, 2008, 07:19 PM
I like seeing Nadia ahead of Maria Serena and Venus. Good system :rocker2::music::drive:

Expat
Apr 9th, 2008, 07:38 PM
nadia and maria at 5 and 6
wtf

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:27 AM
nadia and maria at 5 and 6
wtfNadia is player in big slump right now without doubt, but this ranking is based on players claycourt performaces in past, especialy in near past and Nadia played last season final of Amelia Island, in 2006 she won 2 tier-I at clay (and twice beat Henin!) and in 2005 she played semifinal at RG...

BTW... difference between some players is not so big, so we have actualy couple groups players here:


"ABOUT 2500": Justine Henin - Class for herself at clay.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"ABOUT 1500": Ivanovic, Jankovic and Kuznetsova - The Contenders.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"ABOUT 850": Petrova, Sharapova and Serena - The Big Expectations.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"ABOUT 750": Safina, Vaidisova, Schnyder - The Dark Horses.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"ABOUT 666": Venus, Dementieva, Mauresmo and Golovin - WTH
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"ABOUT 500": Chakvetadze and Medina - Good Try


But dont forget how bad is clay-ranked before last season two Serbian girls or Sveta before 2006 claycort season - but before 2008 this three is right after Henin. New season - new opportunities!

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:40 AM
This Ivanovic is good

Dan23
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:53 AM
I like seeing Nadia ahead of Maria Serena and Venus. Good system :rocker2::music::drive::lol: doesnt happen often

Wacky ranking system this is....maybe career win/loss or total ranking pts divided by matches or tournaments might be better.

Mikey.
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:31 AM
How convenient for you that Ana ended up #2 :o

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:33 AM
:lol: doesnt happen often

Wacky ranking system this is....maybe career win/loss or total ranking pts divided by matches or tournaments might be better.I dont see nothing strange here with Nadia clay#5 position. Atleast it's not Penneta like Eurosport calculate :tape::tape::tape:. BTW in last 3 years (since 2005) Petrova is RG semifinalist, winner of Charleston, Berlin and Amelia Island and Runner-up of Berlin and Amelia Island. On other hand in same time Maria Sharapova, Serena Williams and Venus Williams in last 3 years (since 2005) TOGETHER reach one RG semifinal and only one claycourt title in Istanbul (minor tournament) without any other finals.
This Ivanovic is goodHow convenient for you that Ana ended up #2 :oIf truth about Ivanovic is so painful for you - simple ignore all good facts about her.

LudwigDvorak
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:36 AM
Elena lost in the QF of Rome '07...not SF. Just wanted to say.

Tennisstar86
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:50 AM
I love it... maria cant win a tourny on clay yet shes top ten in the "clay rankings"

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Elena lost in the QF of Rome '07...not SF. Just wanted to say.Thanks... this my typo give Elena only 85 pts more (195 instead 110) but that is enough to move her from #12 (real ranking) to #8 (b/c too many players have about 700pts).

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:47 AM
.
If truth about Ivanovic is so painful for you - simple ignore all good facts about her.

Are you :cuckoo: Serbia ?

Read again what I wrote

Il Primo!
Apr 10th, 2008, 03:01 AM
All i say is im suprised you did not find the good combination of stats which ranks ana first :)

Mikey.
Apr 10th, 2008, 03:03 AM
I dont see nothing strange here with Nadia clay#5 position. Atleast it's not Penneta like Eurosport calculate :tape::tape::tape:. BTW in last 3 years (since 2005) Petrova is RG semifinalist, winner of Charleston, Berlin and Amelia Island and Runner-up of Berlin and Amelia Island. On other hand in same time Maria Sharapova, Serena Williams and Venus Williams in last 3 years (since 2005) TOGETHER reach one RG semifinal and only one claycourt title in Istanbul (minor tournament) without any other finals.
If truth about Ivanovic is so painful for you - simple ignore all good facts about her.

No I do believe that Ana is a very good clay-courter... but somehow your stats always end up with Ana doing really really well, usually better than Jelena. And what a coincidence that she is your favourite player, no? I'd go all out and say Jelena had a better clay court season last year than Ana. If Ana had Jelena's French Open draw and Jelena had Ana's, then I'm sure Ana would have lost to Justine in the semi and Jelena would have been in the final. :shrug:

Buitenzorg
Apr 10th, 2008, 03:04 AM
Justine is clearly the best claycourt player at the moment ;)

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 04:07 AM
All i say is im suprised you did not find the good combination of stats which ranks ana first :)No I do believe that Ana is a very good clay-courter... but somehow your stats always end up with Ana doing really really well, usually better than Jelena. And what a coincidence that she is your favourite player, no? I'd go all out and say Jelena had a better clay court season last year than Ana. If Ana had Jelena's French Open draw and Jelena had Ana's, then I'm sure Ana would have lost to Justine in the semi and Jelena would have been in the final. :shrug:I dont know is clay favorite surface of Ana Ivanovic or not, but fact is that in 2 of her 3 full professional seasons (2005 and 2007) she have (by far) best results at clay. BTW, she is currently #2 at official WTA ranking so i dont understand why is so many people in this thread so surprised if very relevant criteria like this give her same #2position at her best surface???

It's not serious to give Jankovic extra points b/c she must to play against Henin in RG07sf or "punish" Petrova b/c she is in 2008 obvious slump. If i give JJ extra pts b/c her RG draw, why not to give extra pts to Ana b/c (for example) she must to withdraw from Rome b/c injury or whatever. And BTW if i realy accept here all sugestions to not talking about things where Ana is one of better WTA girls - that will means about 10 years autocensure for me about mostly WTA subjects... so i dont give sh*t about all this comments. 2008 claycourt season just started this week, so of course that this surface deserve priority now in my analysis (not b/c my favorite player have good results at clay). I create this list b/c Eurosport create theys retarded "Claycourt Ranking" (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/08042008/58/wta-tour-claycourt-rankings.html) (we have already 2 threads about that here at GM) where criteria is so stupid that for example Sequera for her last season win vs Wozniak at 145K Fes (Maroco) tournament final reach same number of 3 "Eurosport claycort ranking pts" like for example Golovin or Henin for tier-II wins (Amelia and Warsaw) in 2007 or Kuznetsova for 2006 Roland Garros final :tape::tape:... That is reason why Penneta promoted by Eurosport like current TOP5 claycourt player... etc... So this list is my reaction on that whole list which iritate me (not b/c Ana is ranked "only" like #3 or Nadia like #7 - no big mistakes for this two) to prevent all confusion which Eurosport produce. This list much better value players 2007 results (use official ranking points), theys claycourt achivments in near past (2005 and 2006 seasons) and give them smarter extra bonus for theys career-best achivment.

Serenidad.
Apr 10th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Boy. I wonder how Ivanobitch stumbled upon being number 2.

And how Sharapova, 0 clay titles is ranked higher than Serena who has won RG and other clay titles.

Nikkiri
Apr 10th, 2008, 07:35 AM
No I do believe that Ana is a very good clay-courter... but somehow your stats always end up with Ana doing really really well, usually better than Jelena. And what a coincidence that she is your favourite player, no? I'd go all out and say Jelena had a better clay court season last year than Ana. If Ana had Jelena's French Open draw and Jelena had Ana's, then I'm sure Ana would have lost to Justine in the semi and Jelena would have been in the final. :shrug:

This is getting really boring :o It didn't happen that way and you don't know she would have made the final.. so get over it.

Everyone knows by know how his stats favor Ana so if you don't like them don't read them, simple.

cecilija
Apr 10th, 2008, 10:37 AM
Nadia is player in big slump right now without doubt, but this ranking is based on players claycourt performaces in past, especialy in near past and Nadia played last season final of Amelia Island, in 2006 she won 2 tier-I at clay (and twice beat Henin!) and in 2005 she played semifinal at RG...

No, she didn't.

Dodoboy.
Apr 10th, 2008, 10:43 AM
You guys are harsh!

I appreciate your work Cpuja :hug:

Shoulderpova
Apr 10th, 2008, 10:45 AM
your stats are totally :bs:
as usual :yawn:

Medina
Apr 10th, 2008, 11:29 AM
lol anabel Has heaps of points to defend so all i can say is :tape:

Matt01
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:27 PM
You guys are harsh!

I appreciate your work Cpuja :hug:


Same here :)

theDreamer
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:27 PM
The "Ana" formula ;) So now we just need the "Sveta" formula, the "Venus" formula, the "Serena" formula, and the "Lindsay" formula :lol:

How convenient for you that Ana ended up #2 :o

All i say is im suprised you did not find the good combination of stats which ranks ana first :)

No I do believe that Ana is a very good clay-courter... but somehow your stats always end up with Ana doing really really well, usually better than Jelena. And what a coincidence that she is your favourite player, no? I'd go all out and say Jelena had a better clay court season last year than Ana. If Ana had Jelena's French Open draw and Jelena had Ana's, then I'm sure Ana would have lost to Justine in the semi and Jelena would have been in the final. :shrug:

Boy. I wonder how Ivanobitch stumbled upon being number 2.

And how Sharapova, 0 clay titles is ranked higher than Serena who has won RG and other clay titles.

your stats are totally :bs:
as usual :yawn:

Come on guys!
No need to give the dismissive Ana comments just because
c6puja is an Ana fan.
If there's something deliberately skewed in the formulas,
then point it out - if not, then accept that Ana really
is as good as her real ranking suggests, and *maybe* discuss
the stats sensibly or just avoid the thread.


btw- Given their results and head to head, Ana is overall currently a better player than Jelena so its not that surprising that stats usually back this up.

goldenlox
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Of course it's skewed. Serena has a FO title and she's behind Nadia.

Vamos.
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Did you make this formula and then find Ana was #2?

Or did you deliberately make some extremely bizarre formula so that Ana was #2?

For me, Svetlana is undoubtedly #2 on clay. :shrug:...this year, that could change. But as things stand she is the second best player on clay, I think. This formula is just your opinion of how who is the best should be formulated.

It is NOT the real ranking, by any means.

hayleytrotter
Apr 10th, 2008, 12:57 PM
Uuuuugggghhhh.
Sorry, but how about we just lose the "Real" rankings and wait and see what happens this season.
We all know who is good/bad/okay/has potential on clay.

I dont like Serena, but i will admit she has done well on clay before and is a HUGE threat at RG. And Nadia above Serena.... Are you kidding me?

And maria, one of my favourites, at number 5. One RG semi final and she is in front of williams? a former french open champ?

Riiiiiiiight.

Right now, its pretty obvious who will probably go well on clay.

Past rankings can be pretty useless. Henin is in a slump, will she come back? who knows. Noone.
Sharapovas shoulder is still nagging her. Will she make it to the semis again? noone knows.

Lets just wait and see shall we?

Ballbasher
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I think they're god but Jankovic belongs above Ivanovic it's close between them anyways good work :)

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:31 PM
©laycourt ®anking

This Ranking is based on 3 best 2007 claycourt results + bonus 50% of best 2005-2006 claycourt result + 30% of career best claycourt result.

Exception Rule:
If 50% of players 2nd best 2005-2006 result is better than 3rd 2007 best result they will replace 3rd best 2007 result.


©laycourt ®anking after 2007 season CLUB 500+
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 270-Warsaw07win, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 430-Berlin07win, 125-AI07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1575
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Charleston07win, 430-Rome07win, 195x0.50-Berlin05sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1542.5
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Berlin07ru, 300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1410
5. Nadia Petrova (190-Amelia07ru, 110-Berlin07qf, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 875
6. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 65-Istambul07sf, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 872.5
7. Serena Williams (250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, *450x0.30-RG03sf, 70x0.50-Amelia05, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 830
8. Dinara Safina (300-Charleston07ru, 140-RG07r4, 110-Berlin07qf, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 300x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 765
9. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, *250x0.30-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
10. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Venus Williams (195-Charleston07sf, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 717.5
12. Elena Dementieva (140-Istanbul07win, 110-Rome07qf, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 300x0.50-Charleston05ru, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 680
13. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
14. Tatiana Golovin (275-Amelia07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 90x0.50-RG05r3, 195xCharleston05sf, 275x0.30-Amelia07win) - 610
15. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5
16. Anabel Medina (140-RG07r4, 140-Strasbourg07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 140*0.50-Strasbourg05win, 140*0.30-Strasbourg05win) - 502

*PROTECTING RANKING: In two cases (Serena Williams and Nicole Vaidisova) b/c they simple not playing enough clay tournaments last season or in 2005-2006 one of results which will counting by this rules worth 1pts or less. Instead this two results i count 30% of theys career 2nd best result.




UPDATED 2008 VERSION (CLUB 500+)
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 270-Warsaw07win, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 430-Berlin07win, 125-AI07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1575
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Charleston07win, 430-Rome07win, 195x0.50-Berlin05sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1542.5
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Berlin07ru, 300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1410
5. Nadia Petrova (190-Amelia07ru, 110-Berlin07qf, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 875
6. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 65-Istambul07sf, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 872.5
7. Serena Williams (250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, *450x0.30-RG03sf, 70x0.50-Amelia05, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 830
8. Dinara Safina (300-Charleston07ru, 140-RG07r4, 110-Berlin07qf, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 300x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 765
9. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, *250x0.30-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
10. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Venus Williams (195-Charleston07sf, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 717.5
12. Elena Dementieva (140-Istanbul07win, 110-Rome07qf, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 300x0.50-Charleston05ru, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 680
13. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
14. Tatiana Golovin (275-Amelia07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 90x0.50-RG05r3, 195xCharleston05sf, 275x0.30-Amelia07win) - 610
15. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5
16. Anabel Medina (140-RG07r4, 140-Strasbourg07win, 110-Charleston07qf, 140*0.50-Strasbourg05win, 140*0.30-Strasbourg05win) - 502

***IN RED - 2007 results which will be replaced next week after 2008 new event (which will be added). Also 2005 results from 2005-2006 50% category from same event will be deleted (and 2007 tournament will be added).I just update starting post with "UPDATED 2008 VERSION". That means i will every week add current claycourt tournament instead theys last season results. Next week for example all Amelia Island 2007 results will be removed and that for sure will means for last season finalists which not compete this season in Amelia (Golovin and Petrova) that Golovin name will be deleted from "Club 500+" players list and Sharapova, Serena and maybe Safina will overtake Petrova. Same thing i will do after Charleston08, Berlin08, Rome08...etc

ElusiveChanteuse
Apr 10th, 2008, 01:32 PM
How about Flavia?Isn't she #5 in some ranking?:p

theDreamer
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Of course it's skewed. Serena has a FO title and she's behind Nadia.

These rankings like the real rankings give more weight to recent results.
I like Serena, but that FO title was ages ago, and in the last 3-4 yrs, she
hasn't done enough at the FO.

Nadia is in front of serena in the list because she played more than
serena during the last clay season and thus could amass more points overall - No big deal.

What would you change in the formula to rectify this "skew"?

goldenlox
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:14 PM
There can't be a good clay ranking system because the season is too short.
Serena doesn't need to play Berlin and Rome, then she drew Justine in a QF when Justine was in her top form.
Ivanovic was in the other half. Who says she beats Serena if they are in the same quarter?

These rankings ar meaningless. Use the regular rankings to seed tournaments, then we'll see who wins.

mure
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Ivanovic was in the other half. Who says she beats Serena if they are in the same quarter?

she beated the invincible,amazing,fantastic russians :hearts:

thus serena would be a walk in the park for her :)

theDreamer
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:31 PM
There can't be a good clay ranking system because the season is too short.
Serena doesn't need to play Berlin and Rome, then she drew Justine in a QF when Justine was in her top form.
Ivanovic was in the other half. Who says she beats Serena if they are in the same quarter?

These rankings ar meaningless. Use the regular rankings to seed tournaments, then we'll see who wins.

Serena should play more.

Rankings don't take draws into account, only results. I was hoping you'd point out
something that was actually wrong with the logic behind c6puja's rankings.
Nobody said there can be a good clay ranking system - it's just c6puja's opinion
on a better system than eurosport's system.

These rankings are meaningless. Match predictions are also meaningless.
We should just wait for the matches.

Its just something to talk about mate. :shrug:

theDreamer
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Did you make this formula and then find Ana was #2?

Or did you deliberately make some extremely bizarre formula so that Ana was #2?

For me, Svetlana is undoubtedly #2 on clay. :shrug:...this year, that could change. But as things stand she is the second best player on clay, I think. This formula is just your opinion of how who is the best should be formulated.

It is NOT the real ranking, by any means.

Of course, its not the real ranking - as you said, "This formula is just your opinion of how who is the best should be formulated". But it seems to me to be pretty logical/consistent and fair.

What do you have to back up your claim about Sveta?
Who did Sveta lose to in Berlin last yr?
Who did she lose to in FO last yr?
Sveta is not as "undoubtedly" #2 on clay as you claim.

Dan23
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Cp6uja can you please do an equivalent Rebound Ace/Plexicushion ranking list too ;)

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 02:47 PM
How about Flavia?Isn't she #5 in some ranking?:pUsing this point system she reach 140+140+50 points for her 3 best results in last 12 months (2 of this 3 is from 2008), 0.50x140 bonus for her best 2005-2006 result and 0.30x140 bonus for her career-best claycourt result. Because 140+140+50+70+42=442 that is not enough for her to be part of "CLUB 500+" list.


And when we talking about this formula, rules is very simple:
This Ranking is based on 3 best 2007 claycourt results + bonus 50% of best 2005-2006 claycourt result + 30% of career best claycourt result.

Exception Rule:
If 50% of players 2nd best 2005-2006 result is better than 3rd 2007 best result they will replace 3rd best 2007 result.I dont see any reason why some posters call this formula "ANA FORMULA" :confused:. Her best 2005-2006 result (50% bonus) is not impressive and 30% bonus for career-best result much more is helpful for players which have best claycourt results long time ago (Serena, Venus, Dementieva...). Also "Exception Rule" which protect players which not played enough clay tournaments last season means nothing for Ana which have full 2007 claycourt shedule and dont have some good 0.50x"2nd best" 2005-2006 to be counted for her... so this rule is helpful for 10 of this 16 girls (but not for Ana). If we talking about Serena atleast 3 rules in this formula favorize this type of players with great results in deep past but with nothing in near past. Her last claycourt final is in 2002 and in last 3 years she played only 1 of 3 RG (reach QF) and only 3 of 21 tier-I, tier-II and tier-III claycourt events (reach one QF) but people expect to see her higher than #7 (#6 since next week)!?!?

Nothing is "bizzare" in formula which is [1] based on players results in last 12 months, [2] Rate tournaments results using current official WTA points system (for wins 1000-GS, 430-tierI...etc), [3] Limited number of counted tournaments (3 is optimal for claycourt season) and give players two extra bonuses for best result in last 3 years and in whole career.

BTW this "Claycourt Rankings" is not calculate chances of players at clay for FUTURE. Only rate theys results in (near) past and that will be maybe helpful for some predictions and maybe not. For example with any "Claycort Rankings" system before start of 2007 claycourt season two Serbians must be out of TOP10 but they finish 2007 like #2 and #3 2007 claycourt players (no mater in which order) reaching RG final and semi and won all 3 clay tier-I titles last season... So if this formula is fair and have good logic - for me is most interesting thing will be to compare all changes of "CLUB 500+" list and order before start of 2008 claycourt season and after 2008 clay season is finished (after RG/08).

SAEKeithSerena
Apr 10th, 2008, 03:02 PM
okayyyyyy, righttttttt

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 03:16 PM
Cp6uja can you please do an equivalent Rebound Ace/Plexicushion ranking list too ;)I see of course Irony in your request, but when you mentoned this subject - one of most serious "private investigations" which i have in this forum is about differences between Rebound Ace (former AO surface) and Plexicushion (new surface)! So if you realy interested about this subject visit my Australian Open NEW SURFACE - very interesting results of comparations (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=329375) research-thread.

But i'm afraid that when you will notice that Ana Ivanovic is involved in about 10 of 960 WTA and ATP matches which match-stats i use for this deep analysis - you will not accept results and conclusions about new AO surface :p and that whole thread will be pointless for you, even if you realy very interested about this subject...

Vamos.
Apr 10th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Of course, its not the real ranking - as you said, "This formula is just your opinion of how who is the best should be formulated". But it seems to me to be pretty logical/consistent and fair.

What do you have to back up your claim about Sveta?
Who did Sveta lose to in Berlin last yr?
Who did she lose to in FO last yr?
Sveta is not as "undoubtedly" #2 on clay as you claim.

"For me" she is.

"For me," as in the words I used in my original post. So, in my mind, Svetlana is undoubtedly #2 on clay. I know, and completely understand, other people will disagree.

:shrug:

theDreamer
Apr 10th, 2008, 05:23 PM
"For me" she is.

"For me," as in the words I used in my original post. So, in my mind, Svetlana is undoubtedly #2 on clay. I know, and completely understand, other people will disagree.

:shrug:

Fair enough.

But I don't think your post was helpful/contributed to the thread.
I understand Sveta is your favourite, but you pretty much
accused cp6uja of using a "bizarre formula" purposely to benefit
Ana's position in the ranking - and you never gave a logical
reason (backed up with facts) for this accusation.

Cp6uja
Apr 10th, 2008, 06:37 PM
"For me" she is.

"For me," as in the words I used in my original post. So, in my mind, Svetlana is undoubtedly #2 on clay. I know, and completely understand, other people will disagree.

:shrug:Sveta's fans realy dont have any reason to complain against this ©® points system. Her career best result is RG final two years ago and that achivment is involvent in her both bonuses (with 50% for 2005-2006 best result and with 30% of her career-best). That is still not enough for her to overtake one of two Serbians which have way better clacourt results in 2007, but give her "same class" status which she IMO deserve. If we look only claycourt points which players defending from last season, "official" WTA ranking is:

1. Jelena Jankovic 1680
2. Justine Henin 1470
3. Ana Ivanovic 1315
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova 975
5. Dinara Safina 730
6. Maria Sharapova 515
etc...

According to this "official" WTA 2007 claycourt list Sveta is also #4, but she is more part of Safina-like class of clay players than with Jankovic, Henin and Ivanovic league.

But this WTA list not show us that Jankovic played 7 claycourt tournaments last season, and Ivanovic and Kuznetsova only 4, Henin only 3 and Sharapova only 2... Also, we not see nothing of theys results before 2007 here... So i created "smarted" Claycourt Rankings where:

1. Justine Henin 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic 1575
3. Jelena Jankovic 1542.5
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova 1410
5. Nadia Petrova 875
6. Maria Sharapova 872.5
etc...

So dont tell me that:
1) I favorize Serbian players - Jankovic is 3rd instead 1st, and Ivanovic is one place better ranked but on other hand (which is more important) have 1000 pts less than leader insted 360. But even if i'm Ivanovic fan i think that she deserved to be outclassed by Henin in fair Claycourt Ranking right now.
2) I underrate Svetlana - which is outclassed by 3 players according WTA and only with Justine Henin by my ranking formula. She is in same league here with Serbians and much, much better than #5 or Safina...

PLP
Apr 10th, 2008, 11:25 PM
1. Justine
2. Serena
3. Ana
4. Jelena
5. Venus
6. Mauresmo
7. LenaD
8. Sveta
9. Anna C (maybe?)
10. Maria

Wiggly
Apr 10th, 2008, 11:37 PM
Cp6uja can you please do an equivalent Rebound Ace/Plexicushion ranking list too ;)

I bet she would still be ranked #2 wi th her 2005 Canberra Title and A0 final. Some "smart formula".


According to this "official" WTA 2007 claycourt list Sveta is also #4, but she is more part of Safina-like class of clay players than with Jankovic, Henin and Ivanovic league.


2007 : Rome and Berlin finals, French Open QFs.
2006 : Berlin QFs, Rome SFs and French Open final.

She had MP's against Myskina and Henin the year they won RG.

Ivanovic only has a Berlin Title and a French Open final.

:wavey:

Cp6uja
Apr 13th, 2008, 08:07 PM
UPDATED 2008 VERSION (CLUB 500+)
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 270-Warsaw07win, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 430-Berlin07win, 125-AI07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1575
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Charleston07win, 430-Rome07win, 195x0.50-Berlin05sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1542.5
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Berlin07ru, 300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1410
5. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 275-Amelia08win, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1082.5
6. Serena Williams (250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, *450x0.30-RG03sf, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 795
7. Dinara Safina (300-Charleston07ru, 140-RG07r4, 110-Berlin07qf, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 300x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 765
8. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, *250x0.30-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
9. Nadia Petrova (110-Berlin07qf, 60-Rome07r3, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 745
10. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Venus Williams (195-Charleston07sf, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 717.5
12. Elena Dementieva (140-Istanbul07win, 110-Rome07qf, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 300x0.50-Charleston05ru, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 680
13. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
14. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5


***IN RED - 2007 results which will be replaced next week after 2008 new event (which will be added). Also 2005 results from 2005-2006 50% category from same event will be deleted (and 2007 tournament will be added).After first claycourt tournament (Amelia Island 2008) this season we have some changes here. Two players is removed from "CLUB 500+" list b/c dont have enough (500) points. It's last season AI champion Golovin and quarterfinalist Anabel Medina. Last season runner-up Petrova lose her AI 2007 points and now she is #9 (last week - #5!). Of course player which most improve this week is Maria Sharapova. Not b/c that one spot (#5 insted #6 last week) but in number of overall points.

Next week is bigger, tier-I Charleston tournament. Defending champion is Jelena Jankovic and runner-up is Dinara Safina. All Charleston 2007 results after next week will be counting with 50% value (if they enough good) and Charleston 2005 result will be deleted from 2005-06 part...

Cp6uja
Apr 20th, 2008, 10:01 PM
©laycourt ®anking
is updated after Charleston 2008

This Ranking is based on 3 best claycourt results in last 12 months + bonus 50% of best 2005-2006 claycourt result + 30% of career best claycourt result.

Exception Rule:
If 50% of players 2nd best 2005-2006 result is better than 3rd 2007 best result they will replace 3rd best 2007 result.


UPDATED 2008 VERSION (CLUB 500+)
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 270-Warsaw07win, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2570
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 430-Berlin07win, 125-AI07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1575
3. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Berlin07ru, 300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1410
4. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Rome07win, 125-Warsaw07sf, 430x0.50-Charleston07sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1355
5. Serena Williams (430-Charleston08win, 250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, **450x0.30-RG03sf, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 1225
6. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 275-Amelia08win, 110-Charleston08qf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1095
7. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, **250x0.30-RG07qf, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
8. Nadia Petrova (110-Berlin07qf, 60-Rome07r3, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 745
9. Elena Dementieva (195-Charleston08sf, 140-Istanbul07win, 110-Rome07qf, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 725
9. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
12. Dinara Safina (140-RG07r4, 110-Berlin07qf, 300x0.50-Charleston07ru, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 300x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 615
13. Venus Williams (90-RG07r3, 70-Warsaw07qf, 195x0.50-Charleston07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 592.5
14. Vera Zvonareva (300-Charleston08sf, **250x0.30-RG03qf, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 300x0.30-Charleston08sf) - 562.5
15. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5
16. Alize Cornet (195-Charleston08sf, 125-Amelia08sf, 100-Acapulco08ru, 43x0.5-Acapulco07qf, 195x0.30-Charleston08sf) - 500



Latest Changes:

Last season Charleston champion b/c bad 08 result lose #3 position (Sveta overtake her). Biggest improvment in points of course this week have Serena (instead 795 - 1225) and she overtake Maria at #5. Last season Charleston runnerup Safina down from #7 to #12 (biggest down this week). Dementieva with Charleston SF improve her positions on this rankings from #12 last week to #9 next week. Since next week two new girls is part of this Claycourt Ranking: CHA runnerup Vera Zvonareva (despite fact that she not played any Red Clay event last season) is #14 (with one empty place) and young Alize Cornet after 2nd SF at green clay reach exactly 500 points and current #16 place.

** - one empty place in this CR of players which dont have all 5 qualify results is replaced with 30% of theys 2nd best career result (Serena, Vaidisova, Zvonareva), but Vera and Nicole have two empty places b/c not played enough on clay last season so one place stay empty.


NEXT REAL Claycourt Ranking ©® will be presented after Berlin 2008 (that means cut-off for Berlin/07 and Warsaw/07 results and add for Berlin/08).

Cp6uja
May 12th, 2008, 01:42 AM
Latest updates (from post#1) after Berlin/08:

©laycourt ®anking

This Ranking is based on 3 best claycourt results in last 12 months + bonus 50% of best 2005-2006 claycourt result + 30% of career best claycourt result.

Exception Rule:
If 50% of players 2nd best 2005-2006 result is better than 3rd 2007 best result they will replace 3rd best 2007 result.


UPDATED 2008 VERSION (CLUB 500+)
1. Justine Henin (1000-RG07win, 65-Berlin08r3, 1000x0.50-RG06win, 1000x0.50-RG05win) - 2365
2. Ana Ivanovic (700-RG07ru, 195-Berlin08sf, 430x0.50-Berlin07win, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG07ru) - 1445
3. Jelena Jankovic (450-RG07sf, 430-Rome07win, 110-Berlin08qf, 430x0.50-Charleston07sf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1340
4. Svetlana Kuznetsova (300-Rome07ru, 250-RG07qf, 300x0.50-Berlin07ru, 700x0.50-RG06ru, 700x0.30-RG06ru) - 1260
5. Serena Williams (430-Charleston08win, 250-RG07qf, 110-Rome07qf, **450x0.30-RG03sf, 1000x0.30-RG02) - 1225
6. Maria Sharapova (450-RG07sf, 275-Amelia08win, 110-Charleston08qf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 450x0.30-RG07sf) - 1095
7. Dinara Safina (430-Berlin08ru, 140-RG07r4, 300x0.50-Charleston07ru, 250x0.50-RG06qf, 430x0.30-Charleston07ru) - 974
8. Elena Dementieva (300-Berlin08win, 195-Charleston08sf, 140-Istanbul07win, 140x0.50-RG05r4, 700x0.30-RG04ru) - 915
9. Nicole Vaidisova (250-RG07qf, **250x0.30-RG07qf, 140x0.50-Strasbourg06win, 450x0.50-RG06sf, 450x0.30-RG06sf) - 755
10. Patty Schnyder (195-Rome07sf, 140-RG07r3, 300x0.50-Rome05ru, 300x0.50-Charleston06ru, 300x0.30-Charleston02ru) - 725
11. Vera Zvonareva (300-Charleston08ru, 140-Prague08win, **250x0.30-RG03qf, 195x0.50-Rome05sf, 300x0.30-Charleston08sf) - 702.5
12. Nadia Petrova (35-Berlin08r2, 60-Rome07r3, 430x0.50-Charleston06win, 450x0.50-RG05sf, 450x0.30-RG05sf) - 670
13. Amelie Mauresmo (100-Strasbourg07ru, 90-RG07r3, 195x0.50-Berlin06sf, 430x0.50-Rome05win, 430x0.30-Berlin01win) - 631.5
14. Venus Williams (90-RG07r3, 70-Warsaw07qf, 195x0.50-Charleston07sf, 250x0.50-RG05qf, 700x0.30-RG02ru) - 592.5
15. Anna Chakvetadze (250-RG07qf, 70-Warsaw07qf, 90xRG06r3, 125x0.50-Warsaw06sf, 250x0.30-RG07qf) - 502.5


***IN RED - 2007 results which will be replaced next week after 2008 new event (which will be added). Also 2005 results from 2005-2006 50% category from same event will be deleted (and 2007 tournament will be added).

Changes: this season finalists Safina and Dementieva improve on list. Last season finalists Ivanovic and Kuznetsova lose many points, but stay at same positions b/c Jankovic and Serena dont have some better result there.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
May 12th, 2008, 02:11 AM
This Ivanovic is still good