PDA

View Full Version : Williams Sisters and Indian Wells


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:38 PM
I know this topic has been posted a million times but I just want to re-open them and discussed 2009 Indian Wells.
By next year IW would be mandatory just like Miami. Do you think the William sisters would play?
I would for myself think they will play. I think the wounds have healed and its time to move on. Both sisters are one of the pillars of American tennis and I think IW organizers has been working this out for years with them. I also think Venus and Serena would have been wanting to play this event ( come on! its been years ) and its just the ego/pride of standing by their word never to play here again thats keeps them distant to this tournament.
Making IW mandatory for me is not really to force williams sister to play but rather giving them a reason to change their decision not to play IW ever. After-all they are professional tennis players and is committed to Tennis as a whole. Besides, I would think that their california fans deserves to see them back in the desert.
I for one feels that IW has been missing a lot without them.

Paneru
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Dream on honey.

The only way they'll play IMO is
if the tournament were moved from
Indian Wells.

John.
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:45 PM
They will never play there again.

I think the reason they don't play should be pinned at this time of year to the main forum page, so no-one asks why they aren't there :angel:

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Dream on honey.

The only way they'll play IMO is
if the tournament were moved from
Indian Wells.

Its not like their life has been threatened like Monica Seles boycotting Germany.

serenus_2k8
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:51 PM
The WTA knows they cant touch them, I mean a fine or something is hardly gonna hurt either sister.

I wish they did play, because it would be great to see them playing but not in IW.

Destiny
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:51 PM
Don't think they will !!!!!!

Hope they won't, need to stand by their words and if they feel they will be uncomfortable then they shouldn't.

venus_rulez
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:52 PM
I could see both things happening. I could see them saying we'll support the tour anf play since it was a long time ago and I could also see them putting the WTA tour in a very tough spot by not playing. Do they get fined or suspended? even if ti was years ago, what happened to them was highly uncalled for, and the tour basically did nothing. It could get ugly.

Demska
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:58 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 05:59 PM
I think they made their statement already by not playing for years now. Do you really want to put bitterness until the day they retire?
I just really feel that they already let bygones be bygones.

Destiny
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty

o it means that the don't want to be in that kind of situation or event where they are made to feel horrid>:o

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty
We both know that Williams sister not playing one of the biggest tennis event in USA would rather hurt the tournament and WTA than hurting their careers.

Direwolf
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:11 PM
its not like indian wells is an important event...
they love miami
they love the green court....

let sharapova and some other ...
ermm...
palyer take the title...

disco_rage
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:15 PM
I understand why they didn't play at first, but think they need to get over it. It happened a LONG time ago.

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Not playing Indian Wells is like staying in the back of the bus. It would be better if they return and make a stand rather than support this cowardly segregation.

bandabou
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Not happening...last time IW saw either sister was when Serena walked off with the trophy. How sweeter than that can it be? Only thing that saddens me is that Serena certainly could've had like 4 or 5 IW titles by now.

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:26 PM
I don't understand why everyone want them to play IW so bad. There are plenty of Tier I tournaments that the Venus and Serena never play, yet I don't hear anyone coming out and demanding that they play there either. And lets be honest about the situation, the tournament directors/owners pressured Larry Scott/WTA into making IW mandatory specifically because of the Williams Sisters. For years Capriati, Mauresmo and Henin never played there and yet there was no out cry. I believe the Williams Family said last year that if the tour took adverse action against them for not playing IW (ie, stopping them from playing Miami) then they would take legal action against the tour. Now that will be ugly: in the media and in the public.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:26 PM
its not like indian wells is an important event...
they love miami
they love the green court....

let sharapova and some other ...
ermm...
palyer take the title...
When your starting ur career, its should always be whats best for you.
But when you already won multiple slams and part of history, I think its time to think what you can give back to the sport that made you.
Its not always about you!

bwahahahahaha
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Serena has already won the event twice. She wants to give others a chance :angel:

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
When your starting ur career, its should always be whats best for you.
But when you already won multiple slams and part of history, I think its time to think what you can give back to the sport that made you.
Its not always about you!
Are you implying that Venus and Serena haven't given back to the game of tennis? Or are you suggesting that Venus and Serena should be good little slave girls and do exactly what the tour tells them to do?

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
I don't understand why everyone want them to play IW so bad. There are plenty of Tier I tournaments that the Venus and Serena never play, yet I don't hear anyone coming out and demanding that they play there either. And lets be honest about the situation, the tournament directors/owners pressured Larry Scott/WTA into making IW mandatory specifically because of the Williams Sisters. For years Capriati, Mauresmo and Henin never played there and yet there was no out cry. I believe the Williams Family said last year that if the tour took adverse action against them for not playing IW (ie, stopping them from playing Miami) then they would take legal action against the tour. Now that will be ugly: in the media and in the public.
That is not the point.
The three biggest tournament in USA are US Open, Miami and Indian Wells.
If one, well two of your country's perenial stars are not showing up in anyone of this, Its a shame!
Capriati, Mauresmo and Henin did played there except for some un avoidable circumstance that hinders them.

Talula
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
They don't want ot need to play Indian Wells. Monica never returned to Germany even when the end of year champs were moved - briefly - there. I admire them for standing by their principles. Yes, both could have won the event several times and added extra loot to their bank balances, but they stood by their principles.

SAEKeithSerena
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
fines won't hurt them.

them standing to their word is very amazing.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:31 PM
They don't want ot need to play Indian Wells. Monica never returned to Germany even when the end of year champs were moved - briefly - there. I admire them for standing by their principles. Yes, both could have won the event several times and added extra loot to their bank balances, but they stood by their principles.

Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!
Williams was just booed!!

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:32 PM
fines won't hurt them.

them standing to their word is very amazing.
Dont you think they already proved their point?

bandabou
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM
I think this is a war that the WTA really doesn't wanna start.

VishaalMaria
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!
Williams was just booed!!

It's about principles. They both have principles and the Williams sisters are never playing in Indian Wells again. And it wasn't just "booing" they were racially abused too. It goes deeper than that.

woosey
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Not playing Indian Wells is like staying in the back of the bus. It would be better if they return and make a stand rather than support this cowardly segregation.

venus and serena are exercising the rights gifted to them by people who fought segregation. that is the right to choose where and when and if you go someplace.

so in fact, they have not merely moved to the front of the bus, they have in fact gotten off of it and are driving a benz or better yet, are being driven around because they do not need the bus.

VishaalMaria
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Dont you think they already proved their point?

To be honest they arent making a point per se. They were racially abused there and would rather not go back. Simple.

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:37 PM
That is not the point.
The three biggest tournament in USA are US Open, Miami and Indian Wells.
If one, well two of your country's perenial stars are not showing up in anyone of this, Its a shame!
Capriati, Mauresmo and Henin did played there except for some un avoidable circumstance that hinders them.
Well it actually is the point. Plus there are not the only 3 USA tournaments on the tour. There's Stanford, San Diego (if it still exist), the Los Angeles tournament, Memphis, Amelia Island, New Haven and Charleston. And Venus and Serena consistently play these tournaments. And IW never "fit" into Henin's and Mauresmo's schedule over the years and have rarely played there. And Capriati rarely played there as well. Face the facts, Venus and Serena not playing there makes the IW tournament and WTA have to answer questions about it every year they don't play and they hate having to answer those questions. The tour and IW should just get over it and focus on the players who do show up and play it every year.

LudwigDvorak
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:37 PM
They don't need to play IW. It's one of my favorite tournaments, but in the long run, it's really nothing special. Miami is where the gold's at and that's where they both flourish.

I'd have liked to see Venus walk away with the title, but what the crowd did to Serena was uncalled for. I'm glad they're sticking to their guns--good to know some people left in this world have some figurative balls and will continue to stand up for themselves.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Are you implying that Venus and Serena haven't given back to the game of tennis? Or are you suggesting that Venus and Serena should be good little slave girls and do exactly what the tour tells them to do?
I never said that. Your point is extremely fight provoking and is never intended to discuss the issues I raised.

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!
Williams was just booed!!
You, my friend are an IDIOT.

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM
Its not like their life has been threatened like Monica Seles boycotting Germany.Actually, it's EXACTLY as if they're lives have been threatened. A screaming white mob is surrounding a very few Black people was a very common occurrence in American history. Too often followed by someone being burned alive.


However, Monica Seles didn't boycott Germany because she was stabbed there. She boycotted Germany because they let Gunther Parche walk away with no jail time.


In other words, she was threatened, there was no penalty, so she wouldn't go back. It's hardly a perfect analog, but that's pretty much the situation for Venus and Serena at IW. There was certainly no penalty on the crowd. How could there be? And the tournament directors public position has always been they had nothing to apologize for. Why should Venus or Serena return to a place where they were threatened? And of cours, being the top TV draws on the tour, they were actually in a position to hurt Indian Wells, just by not being there to increase their TV ratings. Lower ratings, less ad revenue.


Surely a better question would be why the tournament directors didn't make a public and profuse apology. They have only themselves to blame for the situation.

Dodoboy.
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM
They should!

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM
You, my friend are an IDIOT.
You really think your self making anysense at all? Does it make you point get across??

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Actually, it's EXACTLY as if they're lives have been threatened. A screaming white mob is surrounding a very few Black people was a very common occurrence in American history. Too often followed by someone being burned alive.


However, Monica Seles didn't boycott Germany because she was stabbed there. She boycotted Germany because they let Gunther Parche walk away with no jail time.


In other words, she was threatened, there was no penalty, so she wouldn't go back. It's hardly a perfect analog, but that's pretty much the situation for Venus and Serena at IW. There was certainly no penalty on the crowd. How could there be? And the tournament directors public position has always been they had nothing to apologize for. Why should Venus or Serena return to a place where they were threatened? And of cours, being the top TV draws on the tour, they were actually in a position to hurt Indian Wells, just by not being there to increase their TV ratings. Lower ratings, less ad revenue.


Surely a better question would be why the tournament directors didn't make a public and profuse apology. They have only themselves to blame for the situation.
Or better yet, why they just don't drop the issue and stop forcing them to play so that every year the ugly subject isn't brought up again.

Dave.
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:43 PM
It would be great if they did play it again. Indian Wells is one of the most important tournaments in tennis and everyone should be there. But I hate the idea of mandatory tournaments. At the end of the day, it's the player's decision where they want to go, and punishing them for not going is wrong.

spartanfan
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:43 PM
You really think your self making anysense at all? Does it make you point get across??
Yes, I believe that it does.

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!I thought Seles was alive. Really.


And not only was her injury not life threatening, it wasn't that severe, physically. The estimate I've read said the physically injury healed in six weeks. Parche claimed that he was only trying to injure her. I don't put much stock in that, but it is what he said. At any event, I think she wouldn't have been out nearly as long if Parche had gotten jail time. It's one thing to get attacked. It's another to know the person who attacked you is walking around free.

Beny
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM
They will never play there again... :shrug:

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:52 PM
venus and serena are exercising the rights gifted to them by people who fought segregation. that is the right to choose where and when and if you go someplace.

so in fact, they have not merely moved to the front of the bus, they have in fact gotten off of it and are driving a benz or better yet, are being driven around because they do not need the bus.

No, they let themselves get chased away... succumbing to the will of the white man just like in the days of slavery

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Actually, it's EXACTLY as if they're lives have been threatened. A screaming white mob is surrounding a very few Black people was a very common occurrence in American history. Too often followed by someone being burned alive.


However, Monica Seles didn't boycott Germany because she was stabbed there. She boycotted Germany because they let Gunther Parche walk away with no jail time.


In other words, she was threatened, there was no penalty, so she wouldn't go back. It's hardly a perfect analog, but that's pretty much the situation for Venus and Serena at IW. There was certainly no penalty on the crowd. How could there be? And the tournament directors public position has always been they had nothing to apologize for. Why should Venus or Serena return to a place where they were threatened? And of cours, being the top TV draws on the tour, they were actually in a position to hurt Indian Wells, just by not being there to increase their TV ratings. Lower ratings, less ad revenue.


Surely a better question would be why the tournament directors didn't make a public and profuse apology. They have only themselves to blame for the situation.
Well, that could be a point. WTA and Organizers could have made a move and did some public apology. But do you really think it would made any difference?
I'm not sure how booing you could be life threatening. Honestly I dont see any point to bring the racism back into this equation. Well maybe because I'm not of the same color that I would never understand this issue the way you do.
But going back to the issue, Its been more than 5 years!!!! Forgiveness is the word! Is it really on the level of letting your stabber out of the prison so soon?

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:53 PM
What I think is going to happen is that they won't play there next year, and Larry Scott is going apply the current rule, which I don't think will be re-worked, and not let them play Miami. In fact, noting that Richard was saying Serena needs to take six months off, Serena may stop playing after the US Open, and not return til clay season, bypassing the whole problem.


However, I completely support whatever decision Venus and/or Serena choose to make. If they play, fine. If they don't, fine.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:55 PM
I thought Seles was alive. Really.


And not only was her injury not life threatening, it wasn't that severe, physically. The estimate I've read said the physically injury healed in six weeks. Parche claimed that he was only trying to injure her. I don't put much stock in that, but it is what he said. At any event, I think she wouldn't have been out nearly as long if Parche had gotten jail time. It's one thing to get attacked. It's another to know the person who attacked you is walking around free.

The mere fact that a person litterally try to stab and kill you is the deal here. Even if the guy did'nt kill her, its almost like a frustrated murder!

John.
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Every year this argument occurs :lol:

If they don't want to play it, they won't. Regardless if it is mandatory or not.
They feel strongly enough to boycott it after all this tim, then that is up to them.

AcesHigh
Mar 11th, 2008, 06:58 PM
I'm happy they aren't playing at Indian Wells. 1) The tournament isn't that important anymore. 2) They don't owe the tour or that tournament anything and 3) The way they were abused there, they are justified in never returning again.

Like someone said, it's about principles.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Every year this argument occurs :lol:

If they don't want to play it, they won't. Regardless if it is mandatory or not.
They feel strongly enough to boycott it after all this tim, then that is up to them.
Exactly, its up to them.
I only opened this issue again because I personally wants them to play Indian Wells. They are a big factor when they show up in tournaments and its been a big loss eversince.

sweetpeas
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:03 PM
understand why they didn't play at first, but think they need to get over it. It happened a LONG time ago

What!!!!!!!!!!Read the new papers.Nothing change!Until you walk in there shoe,don"t speak on it!Specially the way,you just did.......

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!
Williams was just booed!!


Wow! I guess it'll be fun to see her corpse dancing on TV

in the coming weeks.

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Well, that could be a point. WTA and Organizers could have made a move and did some public apology. But do you really think it would made any difference?I have no idea. But the whole dynamic of the situation would have been different. That all happened BEFORE the 'Serena Slam', before either of them had ever been ranked #1, before they were the two dominant players in the game. A lot of tennis fans were MUCH more hostile toward them, players and commentators were openly accusing them of felonies (match-fixing IS a felony), and on top of that they were 20 and 21 years old. American fans routinely cheered for anybody against them. Their fan-base was watching on television. Tournament sell just as many if not more tickets without them, but TV ratings drop dramatically.
I'm not sure how booing you could be life threatening. Honestly I don't see any point to bring the racism back into this equation. Well maybe because I'm not of the same color that I would never understand this issue the way you do.I know plenty of white folks who have no trouble seeing the racial aspect of the situation.
But going back to the issue, Its been more than 5 years!!!! Forgiveness is the word! Is it really on the level of letting your stabber out of the prison so soon?It's a completely different issue. Being surrounded by several thousand people screaming at you, at a time, and in an environment that was already hostile vs actually being physically attacked, but by only ONE person.

What's more threatening? Thinking one person might come out of a crowd and attack you, or thinking the whole crowd might attack you. AOL shut down there tennis boards in 1999 becasue the rape and violence threats against Venus and Serena were so bad. Yes, it's been a long time, but the key here is, Venus and Serena have moved on. They both have other careers. If they skip Indian Wells, they get to home for two weeks, and then have a short trip to Miami. Easy recovery from jet lag, time to see family, attend to business, heal up a little. They're schedules are built around NOT playing tennis for these two weeks. What do they have to GAIN by playing? They don't need the money. There are other California tournaments. And there's always the chance that the crowd will react the same way. Why bother? It's meaningless.

It's like Lindsay Davenport blew off Miami a couple times to hang with her Mom in California for a couple weeks. That was a more valuable use of the time, for her.

I also think making it mandatory decreases the odds of them playing.

calabar
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:19 PM
understand why they didn't play at first, but think they need to get over it.

Here's a bit of news flash, the Willaims sisters have gotten over IW!!. Trust me they have. Wanna know how I know this? Because you don't hear them talking ad nauseum about IW like some of their fans who really need to get a life.
One more thing folks, please stop comparing what happened to Monica in Germany to V&S experience at IW. Burying a knife in someone's back is hardly the same as booing. Monica was justified for not wanting to go back to Germany, and so are V&S, but for vastly different reasons.
More power to both.

kyk710
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Well, that could be a point. WTA and Organizers could have made a move and did some public apology. But do you really think it would made any difference?
I'm not sure how booing you could be life threatening. Honestly I dont see any point to bring the racism back into this equation. Well maybe because I'm not of the same color that I would never understand this issue the way you do.
But going back to the issue, Its been more than 5 years!!!! Forgiveness is the word! Is it really on the level of letting your stabber out of the prison so soon?
I am not black, but I do not find anything about this issue hard to understand. Venus and Serena were treated cruelly and maliciously because of the color of their skin. Change that out with any factor that makes you different that isn't under your control and maybe you will understand why they have taken such a strong stance against playing at a tournament where they were treated so disrespectfully. To top it all off, the tournament itself has made no effort whatsoever to even express remorse for what happened. If Venus and Serena went back and played at Indian Wells, it would be like them saying that what happened to them (racism and discrimination) is trivial and less important than a silly tennis tournament. The fact that they still refuse to play there shows how strongly they feel about this issue and how important it is to them. Nobody will remember who wins Indian Wells this year, but people will remember that Serena and Venus are and always will be noticeably absent from the tournament.

sweetpeas
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:26 PM
KYK710

NICE...Just love you!:wavey::worship::bounce::kiss::cool::):D

sweetpeas
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Posted by sweetpeas
understand why they didn't play at first, but think they need to get over it.

Go back to that pages...You"ll just jumping all over this place!

sweetpeas
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:29 PM
What!!!!!!!!!!Read the new papers.Nothing change!Until you walk in there shoe,don"t speak on it!Specially the way,you just did.......


This is sweetpeas statement!

kyk710
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:29 PM
KYK710

NICE...Just love you!:wavey::worship::bounce::kiss::cool::):D

Thanks. Love you too!:wavey:

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Top-ranked Martina Hingis, who didn't attend the Indian Wells final, said she likes the sisters but discounted Richard Williams' allegations.

"I think it's total nonsense," Hingis said. "I don't feel like there is any racism on the tour. It's a very international sport, and I even would say because they may be black, they have a lot of advantages. ... They can always say it's racism."

Martina showing wisdom beyond her years

pav
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:31 PM
All boiled down to the bones it is simple:
One: Willy family playing their tricks.
Two: Crowd wise to it and responded
Three: Willys were caught out and acted with defiance to cover it up and turned it into bad crowd behaviour so they spat the dummy.
Four: As happens when crowds get a bit fired up there were some arseholes amongst them who turned it into a race issue, but to say this was the main issue is not correct:
Five: the tournament is going along alright without them,so no one is indispensable.

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:32 PM
You know, this would be a non-story is, when V&S said they'd never play their again, people had just said 'that's understandable, given the circumstances', and just moved on. There weren't endless threads about Seles not playing in Germany. She wasn't going to, everyone accepted it, and that was the end of it.


This would all be a footnote by now, instead of a recurring chapter.
__________________

Helen Lawson
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I just read in that other thread that Serena was doing a fahion show at Indian Wells, there were pictures and everything. So I assume she's playing if she's there for a fashion show.
I hope the crowds are nice to her and we can put that awful episode behind us.
On TV, the booing looked awful, so I can only imagine how bad it was in person. I'd never go back if it was me, but Serena is a bigger person than I am.

Volcana
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:34 PM
All boiled down to the bones it is simple:
One: Willy family playing their tricks.
Two: Crowd wise to it and responded
Three: Willys were caught out and acted with defiance to cover it up and turned it into bad crowd behaviour so they spat the dummy.
Four: As happens when crowds get a bit fired up there were some arseholes amongst them who turned it into a race issue, but to say this was the main issue is not correct:
Five: the tournament is going along alright without them,so no one is indispensable.
Six: Tournament almost went bankrupt, had to be bought out by WTA.
Seven: Venus wins Wimbledon and US Open again, becomes #1
Eight: Serena goes onto hold all four slam titles simultaneously.
Nine: IW goes from network TV to bigtime cable to small time cable as TV ratings dropped and dropped.
Ten: Willys go on to VERY nice careers, both be #1 in the world, win six and eight slams respectively, while having nice side careers as designers.

Everybody wins.:)

AcesHigh
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:37 PM
I just read in that other thread that Serena was doing a fahion show at Indian Wells, there were pictures and everything. So I assume she's playing if she's there for a fashion show.
I hope the crowds are nice to her and we can put that awful episode behind us.
On TV, the booing looked awful, so I can only imagine how bad it was in person. I'd never go back if it was me, but Serena is a bigger person than I am.

You mean... a fashion show in India :confused: b/c that's where it was

Marcell
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:37 PM
I just read in that other thread that Serena was doing a fahion show at Indian Wells, there were pictures and everything. So I assume she's playing if she's there for a fashion show.
I hope the crowds are nice to her and we can put that awful episode behind us.
On TV, the booing looked awful, so I can only imagine how bad it was in person. I'd never go back if it was me, but Serena is a bigger person than I am.

I already responded to your post yesterday that Serena was not doing a fashion show at Indian Wells. Serena was in India, Indian Wells in in California.

Cp6uja
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Maybe tournament directors will do anything what they need for sisters to play. This 2009 event will be first IW WTA mandatory in tournament history and field without sisters will be with unnecessary shadow.

BTW in 2009 new USA president will be probably Afroamerican or Woman so nobody (i mean of tournament directors :devil:) dont want to have problems with famouos Afroamericans or Womans like Williams sisters :armed: :lol:.

kiwifan
Mar 11th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty

I think they made their statement already by not playing for years now. Do you really want to put bitterness until the day they retire?
I just really feel that they already let bygones be bygones.

It isn't bitterness, its a decision not to entertain people like some of the posters here in WTAworld who seem to think with their asses. ;)

Celebrities make these kind of decisions all the time, weak minded/greedy/unprincipled people can be forced into caving in on those decisions.

There's absolutely no reason to let bygones be bygones, so there you have it. ;)

kiwifan
Mar 11th, 2008, 08:00 PM
I don't understand why everyone want them to play IW so bad.

They want them to play so they can ultimately treat it as a negative to the Williams Sisters.

Declare their boycott "a waste of time since they just ended up going back anyway", or something similar. :rolleyes:

I can go to Indian Wells for free (the last 5 years) and haven't - so I would have a vested interest in them ending the boycott but I hope they never do...

...well unless there is some serious ass kissing involved by the entire town - they'd have to have special tributes to the Williams Sisters - parades - parties - and then maybe...:lol: :devil:

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 08:07 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty


Guilty of What. They did nothing wrong.

kiwifan
Mar 11th, 2008, 08:07 PM
No, they let themselves get chased away... succumbing to the will of the white man just like in the days of slavery :help:

I could have sworn they hung around long enough to win the title :p and left with the title and their heads held high...

...riding off into the sunset never to return. :angel: :angel: :angel:

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 08:36 PM
Not playing Indian Wells is like staying in the back of the bus. It would be better if they return and make a stand rather than support this cowardly segregation.

What's cowardly about standing up to an injustice? I think just
the opposite is true.

They have given up possibly millions of $$ and a ton of ranking pts.

But they have hurt the tournament very badly. It's a shadow of what
it used to be.

Thanx4nothin
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:03 PM
What's cowardly about standing up to an injustice? I think just
the opposite is true.

They have given up possibly millions of $$ and a ton of ranking pts.

But they have hurt the tournament very badly. It's a shadow of what
it used to be.

:worship: Exactly.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:10 PM
I understand why they didn't play at first, but think they need to get over it. It happened a LONG time ago.

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm...Oh yeah people have been saying that about slavery for years now... Interesting word choice.

I hope they never play. They are in effect independent contractors, and should only play where they feel appreciated.

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:18 PM
All boiled down to the bones it is simple:
One: Willy family playing their tricks.
Two: Crowd wise to it and responded
Three: Willys were caught out and acted with defiance to cover it up and turned it into bad crowd behaviour so they spat the dummy.
Four: As happens when crowds get a bit fired up there were some arseholes amongst them who turned it into a race issue, but to say this was the main issue is not correct:
Five: the tournament is going along alright without them,so no one is indispensable.


I don't think the tournament is going right along without them.

They are making a point of touting record attendance every year
since the incident. Then why did they nearly go bankrupt.

Their Prize money used to be equal to Miami, Now its over a
million and a half behind.

8 or 9 of the top 20 are missing, The big networks have dropped them,

FSN is broadcasting 40hrs, compared to the 100+ hrs that was shown

on bigger networks back when the Sisters played. Larry Scott

has revamped the whole WTA tour in an attempt to force the Sisters back

next year. ( Good Luck with that Larry).

So yes. IW is hurting.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:25 PM
The mere fact that a person litterally try to stab and kill you is the deal here. Even if the guy did'nt kill her, its almost like a frustrated murder!

I agree, but look at it from the sisters point of view. That was a racist hostile crowd, and they got out w/out being physically harmed (With the winners check and trophy:worship::worship::worship:), but why should they "risk" going there again? What do they have to gain?

Tennis is a sport, a game, and I don't know anyone that plays on a regular basis that doesn't have a passion for it; why should anyone play anywhere they have negative vibes?:help:

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:27 PM
What's cowardly about standing up to an injustice? I think just
the opposite is true.

They have given up possibly millions of $$ and a ton of ranking pts.

But they have hurt the tournament very badly. It's a shadow of what
it used to be.

And why? Because of a handful of losers who yelled racist remarks. Rather than roll their eyes at the idiocy of a small minority they had to blow it up into this huge racist ordeal, tarnishing the reputation of a perfectly fine tournament. Rather than ignore these outdates sentiments they let their actions be dominated by them.

Turning everything into a racial issue is weak and cowardly and the kind of behavior that maintains apartheid in the US.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:40 PM
And why? Because of a handful of losers who yelled racist remarks. Rather than roll their eyes at the idiocy of a small minority they had to blow it up into this huge racist ordeal, tarnishing the reputation of a perfectly fine tournament. Rather than ignore these outdates sentiments they let their actions be dominated by them.

Turning everything into a racial issue is weak and cowardly and the kind of behavior that maintains apartheid in the US.

You lack the sufficient brain cells to properly evaluate this situation, so it would be wise for you to hush on up,:tape: read and try and learn something. Your igonorance is glaring. touting Martina Hingis as wise beyond her years is laughable considering her current circumstances. :tape:

The reputation fo the tournament was tarnished by the racist crowds that attended the event. It's a testatment to Serena's upbringing and mental fortitude that she could not only face that crowd, but also win in the face of unrelenting booing; contrast that to Hingis losing 99 French and not wanting to return to the court to pick up her RUNNERS UP trophy.

Dodoboy.
Mar 11th, 2008, 09:59 PM
I do feel sorry for the tournament (on the women's side)

It has AMAZING facilities but as many people has said it has suffered from the loss of the William Sisters!

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:09 PM
You lack the sufficient brain cells to properly evaluate this situation, so it would be wise for you to hush on up,:tape: read and try and learn something. Your igonorance is glaring. touting Martina Hingis as wise beyond her years is laughable considering her current circumstances. :tape:

The reputation fo the tournament was tarnished by the racist crowds that attended the event. It's a testatment to Serena's upbringing and mental fortitude that she could not only face that crowd, but also win in the face of unrelenting booing; contrast that to Hingis losing 99 French and not wanting to return to the court to pick up her RUNNERS UP trophy.
There was not a racist "crowd", that's what the Williams family wants you to believe. The crowd was robbed of an exciting semi final and that's why they were pissed, especially amidst (unfounded) allegations that all Serena vs. Venus matches were fixed. Was the crowd's reaction bad and uncalled for? Absolutely. Did the tournament directors and everyone attending it deserve to be called racists because the crowd vented their disappointment and frustration in an unsportsmanlike way? Definitely not.

hotandspicey
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:15 PM
The wta and IW has an even bigger shock and slap in the face coming, when both sisters announce their retirement from the tour simultaneously, one week before IW. :o :lol: They'll be almost 28 and 29 then. Time to move on. No mandatory nothing. No fines. No Miami punishment. No nada. The sisters never have to go back there where they were treated so badly. They have stood their ground on principle and self- respect. Kudos to them. They don't need IW and IW certainly can do without them..they have for the past few years.

-VSR-
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:33 PM
Why is it such a big deal, they were treated incredubly horrible and should never go back. They haven't and that's too bad for the crowd.

They don't even acknowlegde Serena as a past champion there, enough said, no respect from Indian Wells equals no play from the Williams Sisters.

venus_rulez
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:36 PM
Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself it is not for anyone else. Also, they have "forgiven" the tournament they've moved on and are better for it. It doesn't mean they have to go back and play if they don't want to.

Of course Indian Wells wants them to return they'd get a lot more out of it than either Venus or Serena would. But people saying to get over it is ridiculous.

Oh and whoever said Martina Hingis and her wise words of wisdom :lol: Where were those wise words when she called Mauresmo half a man or she lost a match she was leading because of a line call. Interesting that the poster who said Venus and Serena should come back and fight used Hingis. She surely did fight those drug allegations :tape:

Expat
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:39 PM
booing even if racist does not equal stabbing from any angle
having said that the williams sisters are absolutely justified as was monica to not play in a tournament that they are not comfortable with
i dont see why this is even an issue
bottomline its the williams sisters wish if they want to play or not
b

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:47 PM
And why? Because of a handful of losers who yelled racist remarks. Rather than roll their eyes at the idiocy of a small minority they had to blow it up into this huge racist ordeal, tarnishing the reputation of a perfectly fine tournament. Rather than ignore these outdates sentiments they let their actions be dominated by them.

Turning everything into a racial issue is weak and cowardly and the kind of behavior that maintains apartheid in the US.


All those Boo's I heard did not come from "just a handful of losers"
We would not have heard " just a handful of losers "

Players have had injury withdrawals thousands of times in the WTA.
Its part of the game. One could not help but believe it wasn't
racially motivated when that happens to two black players, especially
when the injury was confirmed by the doctor and trainers. When
a crowd acts like that and the officials don't even attempt to do
anything, it is not a " perfectly fine tournament "

The Williams Sisters entered the WTA as young,strong Black women
that the WTA had to accept on their terms. They have shown in
incidents previous to, and subsequent to, IW, that they will
not accept that type of behavior. They demand the same respect
afforded to every other player.

Their is nothing weak or cowardly in that.

A crowd of thousands berating 2 young back girls and their father,
for doing nothing wrong, is the the ultimate cowardly act.

kwilliams
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:48 PM
They don't have to play and tournament they do not wish to play. Simple as that. Hopefully they'll both be "injured" that week next year, unfortunate but it happens. If not they can pay the fine but excluding them from Miami is bad for them, the tour and that event and I can't imagine that the organisers of the Miami event would be too happy having their two most successful players (who also happen to live locally) excluded from the event.

bandabou
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:54 PM
You lack the sufficient brain cells to properly evaluate this situation, so it would be wise for you to hush on up,:tape: read and try and learn something. Your igonorance is glaring. touting Martina Hingis as wise beyond her years is laughable considering her current circumstances. :tape:

The reputation fo the tournament was tarnished by the racist crowds that attended the event. It's a testatment to Serena's upbringing and mental fortitude that she could not only face that crowd, but also win in the face of unrelenting booing; contrast that to Hingis losing 99 French and not wanting to return to the court to pick up her RUNNERS UP trophy.

Exactly...Serena's biggest statement: walking away with the trophy and never play again.

mirzalover
Mar 11th, 2008, 10:57 PM
If the tournament said they were sorry I'm sure that might help a little but I dont care if they go or not. If they show up its just like any other tournament, and if they dont then I'll enjoying watching someone else play.

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:01 PM
They don't have to play and tournament they do not wish to play. Simple as that. Hopefully they'll both be "injured" that week next year, unfortunate but it happens. If not they can pay the fine but excluding them from Miami is bad for them, the tour and that event and I can't imagine that the organisers of the Miami event would be too happy having their two most successful players (who also happen to live locally) excluded from the event.

Right. Miami had nothing to do with the IW incident. And they stand
to lose big time because of it. They need to stand up and be counted.
Show Larry that he is not GOD.

Cause according to Venus, God is the only one who can get them
to play IW again.

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:02 PM
All those Boo's I heard did not come from "just a handful of losers"
We would not have heard " just a handful of losers "

Players have had injury withdrawals thousands of times in the WTA.
Its part of the game. One could not help but believe it wasn't
racially motivated when that happens to two black players, especially
when the injury was confirmed by the doctor and trainers. When
a crowd acts like that and the officials don't even attempt to do
anything, it is not a " perfectly fine tournament "

The Williams Sisters entered the WTA as young,strong Black women
that the WTA had to accept on their terms. They have shown in
incidents previous to, and subsequent to, IW, that they will
not accept that type of behavior. They demand the same respect
afforded to every other player.

Their is nothing weak or cowardly in that.

A crowd of thousands berating 2 young back girls and their father,
for doing nothing wrong, is the the ultimate cowardly act.
The reaction would've been the same to any two siblings. RACE had nothing to do with it. As long as African Americans keep abusing their status as a racial minority there will never be racial equality in the US. The way the Williams family handled this affair is nothing to be proud of.

Renalicious
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:05 PM
You know, I wish with all my heart they did play. It's been 7 years, it's time to get over it and move on. But sadly, I think the WS will just skip IW and Miami all together. :sad:

Slutati
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Indian Wells is all about Daniela Hantuchova.Nobody else matters.Go Danka:hatoff:

Renalicious
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:16 PM
http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:

danieln1
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:21 PM
I´ve heard somewhere that they were trying to make a rule if a player doesn´t play a mandatory event for a real reason, they woundn´t be allowed to play in the next tournament or lose ranking points, but it must be a rumor...

Kworb
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:25 PM
http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:
She too was wise beyond her years. :hearts:

Melly Flew Us
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:29 PM
Not playing Indian Wells is like staying in the back of the bus. It would be better if they return and make a stand rather than support this cowardly segregation.
not playing indian wells is like boycotting south african products pre-mandela.

Melly Flew Us
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:31 PM
The reaction would've been the same to any two siblings. RACE had nothing to do with it. As long as African Americans keep abusing their status as a racial minority there will never be racial equality in the US. The way the Williams family handled this affair is nothing to be proud of.i haven't been on there a lot recently; but it seems like you've transitioned to tool status.

gmokb
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:38 PM
I for one hope that they never play there again. What if they did and it happened again? Also, some posters are sayijng it was a long time ago and they should let it go. Well, some things do not go away with time. Time will lessen the pain but some scars are there for life.

rjd1111
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:40 PM
The reaction would've been the same to any two siblings. RACE had nothing to do with it. As long as African Americans keep abusing their status as a racial minority there will never be racial equality in the US. The way the Williams family handled this affair is nothing to be proud of.

Any two siblings? You can't say that at all. When in the WTA has
any other Siblings been scheduled to play the Semi-finals of a Major.
If its happened before please enlighten me. Certainly not in modern times

Thats one of the things that make the Sisters so extraordinary.
Its also the reason for racial envy. Instead of being praised for
accomplishing something thats never been done in the history of
Tennis, or any other sport that I know of they are castigated for
unfounded allegations of match fixing.

Its because they are two Black Siblings, that are great at what they do.

So now Blacks are to blame for Racial inequality. I have experienced
Racism many times and surprise! It wasn't another Black who did it.

My great Ancestors did not volunteer to leave their cultures and come
here to pick cotton for nothing.

gmokb
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:44 PM
When your starting ur career, its should always be whats best for you.
But when you already won multiple slams and part of history, I think its time to think what you can give back to the sport that made you.
Its not always about you!

You have got to be kidding if you think the Williams sisters haven't given back tenfold to tennis what they got from it. Lets not forrget about the equal prize money women are now receiving. besides, refusing to play ONE out of several tournaments sure can't be viewed as not willing to give back.

Melly Flew Us
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:46 PM
I know this topic has been posted a million times but I just want to re-open them and discussed 2009 Indian Wells.
By next year IW would be mandatory just like Miami. Do you think the William sisters would play?
I would for myself think they will play. I think the wounds have healed and its time to move on. Both sisters are one of the pillars of American tennis and I think IW organizers has been working this out for years with them. I also think Venus and Serena would have been wanting to play this event ( come on! its been years ) and its just the ego/pride of standing by their word never to play here again thats keeps them distant to this tournament.
Making IW mandatory for me is not really to force williams sister to play but rather giving them a reason to change their decision not to play IW ever. After-all they are professional tennis players and is committed to Tennis as a whole. Besides, I would think that their california fans deserves to see them back in the desert.
I for one feels that IW has been missing a lot without them.
why do you give a fuck?
leave it alone.

SV_Fan
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:51 PM
They said they might never come back. I wish they would but they want.

venus_rulez
Mar 11th, 2008, 11:55 PM
She too was wise beyond her years. :hearts:

If by wise you mean being bitter because she caught a beatdown 6-3, 6-0 in the quarters then you would be correct. :)

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:05 AM
why do you give a fuck?
leave it alone.
Why do you give a fuck that I give a fuck?

venus_rulez
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:08 AM
Why do you give a fuck that I give a fuck?

They don't know that we know they know we know.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:10 AM
They don't know that we know they know we know.:worship: classic!

Kworb
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:21 AM
Any two siblings? You can't say that at all. When in the WTA has
any other Siblings been scheduled to play the Semi-finals of a Major.
If its happened before please enlighten me. Certainly not in modern times

Thats one of the things that make the Sisters so extraordinary.
Its also the reason for racial envy. Instead of being praised for
accomplishing something thats never been done in the history of
Tennis, or any other sport that I know of they are castigated for
unfounded allegations of match fixing.

Its because they are two Black Siblings, that are great at what they do.

So now Blacks are to blame for Racial inequality. I have experienced
Racism many times and surprise! It wasn't another Black who did it.

My great Ancestors did not volunteer to leave their cultures and come
here to pick cotton for nothing.
Exactly; never before have two sisters reached the upper pinnacles of tennis so who's to say that these allegations of match fixing have anything to do with the color of their skin? All we know is that the crowd wasn't pleased that the all Williams semi final wasn't played, and that the discussion about match fixing would not have even existed if they weren't related. The issue of race was brought in only by the few bigots who yelled the N word and the Williams camp blowing that incident out of proportion.

The sisters are not praised? They are widely recognized as legends in tennis history. Every great athlete faces criticism, but it is wrong to always bend this criticism to make it a racial issue, which was clearly done by the Williams camp at IW.

Racial inequality works both ways. Of course racial majorities should not treat racial minorities differently, that is always the main source of inequality and is totally wrong. But racial minorities should not keep emphasizing the color of their skin as a means to make the majorities feel indebted because of wrongdoings in the past. Sometimes it can get to a point where a person can't even be criticized without the critic being accused of racism. Not every argument revolves around race.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Exactly; never before have two sisters reached the upper pinnacles of tennis so who's to say that these allegations of match fixing have anything to do with the color of their skin? All we know is that the crowd wasn't pleased that the all Williams semi final wasn't played, and that the discussion about match fixing would not have even existed if they weren't related. The issue of race was brought in only by the few bigots who yelled the N word and the Williams camp blowing that incident out of proportion.

The sisters are not praised? They are widely recognized as legends in tennis history. Every great athlete faces criticism, but it is wrong to always bend this criticism to make it a racial issue, which was clearly done by the Williams camp at IW.

Racial inequality works both ways. Of course racial majorities should not treat racial minorities differently, that is always the main source of inequality and is totally wrong. But racial minorities should not keep emphasizing the color of their skin as a means to make the majorities feel indebted because of wrongdoings in the past. Sometimes it can get to a point where a person can't even be criticized without the critic being accused of racism. Not every argument revolves around race.


Sorry I"m so late with this guys but here goes anyway.

The poster quoted here is an IDIOT. Sorry I didn't ring the IDIOT ALERT sooner. For the record any of you could have flipped the switch.

Dave.
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:37 AM
Exactly; never before have two sisters reached the upper pinnacles of tennis so who's to say that these allegations of match fixing have anything to do with the color of their skin? All we know is that the crowd wasn't pleased that the all Williams semi final wasn't played, and that the discussion about match fixing would not have even existed if they weren't related. The issue of race was brought in only by the few bigots who yelled the N word and the Williams camp blowing that incident out of proportion.

The sisters are not praised? They are widely recognized as legends in tennis history. Every great athlete faces criticism, but it is wrong to always bend this criticism to make it a racial issue, which was clearly done by the Williams camp at IW.

Racial inequality works both ways. Of course racial majorities should not treat racial minorities differently, that is always the main source of inequality and is totally wrong. But racial minorities should not keep emphasizing the color of their skin as a means to make the majorities feel indebted because of wrongdoings in the past. Sometimes it can get to a point where a person can't even be criticized without the critic being accused of racism. Not every argument revolves around race.

Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions before and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.

The people that were booing were acting immaturely, but you can understand that people were angry and suspicous when Venus pulled out minutes before. If she withdrew at the proper time, there wouldn't have been so many of these allegations of match fixing.

gmokb
Mar 12th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions before and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.

The people that were booing were acting immaturely, but you can understand that people were angry and suspicous when Venus pulled out minutes before. If she withdrew at the proper time, there wouldn't have been so many of these allegations of match fixing.

You haven't being following the blacks involvement in tennis for you to make such a statement. Former black tennis players have always faced and have to deal wth racism, its just that time has changed a lot more since then and blacks are more vocal about unfair treatment. The earlier tennis players paved the way for the Williamses, by making demands for equal treatment but they were limited in power. However, with civil rights movement blacks have the right to refuse being treated less than others and are more vocal about unfair treatment, especially Papa Williams. Don't think the earlier black players didn't face racism, they went through hell, just that they had less power than now to make changes.

Dave.
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:07 AM
You haven't being following the blacks involvement in tennis for you to make such a statement. Former black tennis players have always faced and have to deal wth racism, its just that time has changed a lot more since then and blacks are more vocal about unfair treatment. The earlier tennis players paved the way for the Williamses, by making demands for equal treatment but they were limited in power. However, with civil rights movement blacks have the right to refuse being treated less than others and are more vocal about unfair treatment, especially Papa Williams. Don't think the earlier black players didn't face racism, they went through hell, just that they had less power than now to make changes.

I don't know as much as you do about this clearly.

I should have said I have never heard of a situation in which spectators were booing a player because they are black. I just think that in the 21st century, if a whole crowd in genera was against a player due to their skin colour, something would have happened (like in Miami last year with Serena). That is why I don't think the crowd were being racist (just a couple of people). The only reason for the booing from most people was due to the match fixing allegations.

pov
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:30 AM
Venus and Serena should be good little slave girls and do exactly what the tour tells them to do?

*I* think Venus and Serena should be "good little slave girls" and do exactly what the tour deems mandatory.

Then again I think every player on the tour should be a "good little slave girl" and do what the tour deems mandatory.

I mean wtf - if you're part of an organized body of sport, you follow their guidelines.

LightWarrior
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:34 AM
The horrible French crowd at Roland Garros(I am French) is mostly racist and Serena have often been booed and treated unfairly there. Does she boycott the French Open ? No.

AcesHigh
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:35 AM
The horrible French crowd at Roland Garros(I am French) is mostly racist and Serena have often been booed and treated unfairly there. Does she boycott the French Open ? No.

It was not the same situation. The French boo everyone. :lol:

ghost world
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:39 AM
This thread mirrors why race relations are so horrible in the US. Telling people "boo, hoo!! Get over it" is simply not going to work.

pov
Mar 12th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions before and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.


Correction - racism has been an issue before. And the Williams sisters have encountered racism. However, IMO it is definitely true that many of their fans blow it way out of proportion. These fans act as if any dis, criticism or unfavorable comment about either sister is, by default, based on race.

The IW thing is a great scenario.

Q: They boycotted the event because of racism? What's the point of that?
A: Because so many tennis fans want to see them play it hurts the WTA and the event.
Q: If so many tennis fans want to see them play, then ???

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:01 AM
...its just the ego/pride of standing by their word never to play here again thats keeps them distant to this tournament.
That might be one of the most FOOLISH statements regarding this issue I've EVER heard.

You should never speak on this topic again, because you understand nothing of your own ignorance, and frankly, I'm sure many here are tired of trying to explain it to the likes of you.

DaMamaJama87
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:04 AM
Only in a sport like tennis would people think that the Williams are at fault for not wanting to eagerly return to a place where they suffered racial harrassment. Only in tennis. SMH.

Natash.
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:10 AM
It was not the same situation. The French boo everyone. :lol:

:lol:

Serena's past comments on the French don't help much either but IMO, it's their decision if they want to play or not. Shouldn't be forced to play. :shrug:

pov
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:23 AM
This thread mirrors why race relations are so horrible in the US. Telling people "boo, hoo!! Get over it" is simply not going to work.

The thread does. Thing is I think it's the fact that so many people don't want to get over it that helps strain the relations. It's gotten to the point where it's often like whining.

Someone booing you because you're whatever ethnicity/creed/flavor is just - deal with it. Big deal. Tune them out. Someone threatening you - now that's a whole 'nother thing. Your rights infringed on in anyway? Yep - step up and challenge that.

People saying stuff? Get over it!!! Back in the day when ethnic/racial insults started they were painful because "Black" folk back then didn't have many options or successes to look to. That is not case now!

ghost world
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:41 AM
The thread does. Thing is I think it's the fact that so many people don't want to get over it that helps strain the relations. It's gotten to the point where it's often like whining.

Someone booing you because you're whatever ethnicity/creed/flavor is just - deal with it. Big deal. Tune them out. Someone threatening you - now that's a whole 'nother thing. Your rights infringed on in anyway? Yep - step up and challenge that.

People saying stuff? Get over it!!! Back in the day when ethnic/racial insults started they were painful because "Black" folk back then didn't have many options or successes to look to. That is not case now!

Again, LOL.

You say "get over it" as if white privilege and white supremacist policies aren't still staples of American society.

StarDuvallGrant
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:51 AM
The Williams Sisters have gotten over Indian Wells. They don't play there, they don't bring Indian Wells up. The only ones who don't usually are people who don't even support either sister. Those who have an objection over the sisters not playing are the ones who should accept, and move on.

V-MAC
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:55 AM
http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:

Kim's comments on the other hand were just classy, but you'd expect nothing less from her :)

darrinbaker00
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:12 AM
There was not a racist "crowd", that's what the Williams family wants you to believe. The crowd was robbed of an exciting semi final and that's why they were pissed, especially amidst (unfounded) allegations that all Serena vs. Venus matches were fixed. Was the crowd's reaction bad and uncalled for? Absolutely. Did the tournament directors and everyone attending it deserve to be called racists because the crowd vented their disappointment and frustration in an unsportsmanlike way? Definitely not.
The crowd deserved to be called racists because they yelled racial epithets at the Williams family. Even more disappointing to me is the fact that the Indian Wells tournament director, Mr. Charlie Pasarell, was a close personal friend of Mr. Arthur Ashe. Of all people, he should have sensitive to the situation and done everything in his power to diffuse it. Sadly, he didn't, and we now have.....this.

woosey
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:18 AM
No, they let themselves get chased away... succumbing to the will of the white man just like in the days of slavery

they have not succumbed to the will of the white man. and they did not allow themselves to be "chased" away.

they went away because they had choices. that is what the civil rights movement was about. the right to exercise your choices.

and partly as a result of them refusing to play, the tournament suffers - economically.

and what you fail to understand is that the boycott of the buses succeeded because black people refused to ride them. :smash: they boycotted the buses which made the bus operators/companies suffer financially.

venus and serena are boycotting indian wells. indian wells probably suffers more because of their absence.

sounds like the same tactic to me.

darrinbaker00
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions before and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.

The people that were booing were acting immaturely, but you can understand that people were angry and suspicous when Venus pulled out minutes before. If she withdrew at the proper time, there wouldn't have been so many of these allegations of match fixing.
I took the liberty of bolding what I feel is the key phrase of your post. I strongly suggest you buy and read two books: "Born to Win" by Frances Clayton Gray and Yanick Rice Lamb, and "Venus Envy" by Jon Wertheim. After reading those two books, you should understand where Venus and Serena are coming from.

ghost world
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:26 AM
I took the liberty of bolding what I feel is the key phrase of your post. I strongly suggest you buy and read two books: "Born to Win" by Frances Clayton Gray and Yanick Rice Lamb, and "Venus Envy" by Jon Wertheim. After reading those two books, you should understand where Venus and Serena are coming from.

Listen to this poster.

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:27 AM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out!
Williams was just booed!!
:eek:

mykarma
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:41 AM
:help:

I could have sworn they hung around long enough to win the title :p and left with the title and their heads held high...

...riding off into the sunset never to return. :angel: :angel: :angel:
:lol::lol::lol:

DA FOREHAND
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:43 AM
To the bone heads saying they should get over it, i suggest you take your own advice. It appears to me that V & S have done just that.

spartanfan
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:49 AM
[quote=DA FOREHAND;12685613]You lack the sufficient brain cells to properly evaluate this situation, so it would be wise for you to hush on up,:tape: read and try and learn something. Your igonorance is glaring. touting Martina Hingis as wise beyond her years is laughable considering her current circumstances. :tape:

The reputation fo the tournament was tarnished by the racist crowds that attended the event. It's a testatment to Serena's upbringing and mental fortitude that she could not only face that crowd, but also win in the face of unrelenting booing; contrast that to Hingis losing 99 French and not wanting to return to the court to pick up her RUNNERS UP trophy.

aaaahhhh, SNAP. Oh, no you didn't :haha:

Volcana
Mar 12th, 2008, 03:57 AM
The reaction would've been the same to any two siblings. RACE had nothing to do with it. As long as African Americans keep abusing their status as a racial minority there will never be racial equality in the US. The way the Williams family handled this affair is nothing to be proud of.And yet, millions of people ARE proud of how they handled it. Win, go on to be the best in the world, and don't give the tournament the benefit of your presence again. That's exactly how you play a situation like that. Win, AND walk away.

Volcana
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:01 AM
I´ve heard somewhere that they were trying to make a rule if a player doesn´t play a mandatory event for a real reason, they woundn´t be allowed to play in the next tournament or lose ranking points, but it must be a rumor...No, that's the rule, starting in 2009.http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:Yep. She's never taken it back, either. But if she actually believes that, why should she?

spartanfan
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:01 AM
*I* think Venus and Serena should be "good little slave girls" and do exactly what the tour deems mandatory.

Then again I think every player on the tour should be a "good little slave girl" and do what the tour deems mandatory.

I mean wtf - if you're part of an organized body of sport, you follow their guidelines.
Well the ATP has "mandatory" tournaments as well, but you just lose points for that tournament that a player cannot make up, they don't try and prevent them from playing the next tournament. The WTA is so transparent, this "new:" rule is a direct result of Venus and Serena skipping IW every year and playing (and generally winning) Miami, plus the fact that Miama is just a more popular tournament. Basically the tour is telling Venus and Serena that if you don't play Indian Wells than you can't play Miami, like they do. I think it would really be fierce if Venus and Serena said "well FUCK YOU then" and not played IW and didn't play Miami. Imagine what kind of Shit storm that would start, especially with the owners of the Miami tournament!!

Volcana
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:08 AM
Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions beforeOh really? Name them. and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.After you name them, tell me which one's say racism has never been an issue in tennis.

No doubt the fact that the West Side Tennis Club, that used to host the US Open, didn't even admit Blacks for most of the time they hosted it would be news to you. The fact that Althea Gibson was denied entry to the slams for most of her career would be news to you. Try reading Arthur Ashe's biography.

If ignorance is bliss you must be pretty damn happy.

Volcana
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:12 AM
The horrible French crowd at Roland Garros(I am French) is mostly racist and Serena have often been booed and treated unfairly there. Does she boycott the French Open ? No.Serena mocked the French for failing to follow the US into Iraq. BEFORE they booed her. You notice you did NOT say the French reaction was racially motivated. She knew it was her own mouth that got her into that situation.

Volcana
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:19 AM
Lindsay Davenport made a great point about this six years ago. She said the players were independent contractors, and if they don't want to play, they don't have to play.

Let's face it. The same people don't even OWN Indian Wells. The WTA itself owns a chunk of it, or at least they did last year. So those people have moved on. Venus and Serena have moved on. I'm sure the people in the crowd who were booing are perfectly happy NOT them. Virtually the only people in the world who give a flying fuck about this are posting in this thread. And Larry Scott.

Perhaps we all, me included, need to follow the lead of the principals in the matter and move on.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Exactly; never before have two sisters reached the upper pinnacles of tennis so who's to say that these allegations of match fixing have anything to do with the color of their skin? All we know is that the crowd wasn't pleased that the all Williams semi final wasn't played, and that the discussion about match fixing would not have even existed if they weren't related. The issue of race was brought in only by the few bigots who yelled the N word and the Williams camp blowing that incident out of proportion.

The sisters are not praised? They are widely recognized as legends in tennis history. Every great athlete faces criticism, but it is wrong to always bend this criticism to make it a racial issue, which was clearly done by the Williams camp at IW.

Racial inequality works both ways. Of course racial majorities should not treat racial minorities differently, that is always the main source of inequality and is totally wrong. But racial minorities should not keep emphasizing the color of their skin as a means to make the majorities feel indebted because of wrongdoings in the past. Sometimes it can get to a point where a person can't even be criticized without the critic being accused of racism. Not every argument revolves around race.

:weirdo:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:31 AM
Oh really? Name them.After you name them, tell me which one's say racism has never been an issue in tennis.

No doubt the fact that the West Side Tennis Club, that used to host the US Open, didn't even admit Blacks for most of the time they hosted it would be news to you. The fact that Althea Gibson was denied entry to the slams for most of her career would be news to you. Try reading Arthur Ashe's biography.

If ignorance is bliss you must be pretty damn happy.

:worship:

maddogz48
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:38 AM
Fuck y'all bitches who say Serena & Venus should return to Indian Wells. No one should ever be asked to compromise their principles.

The tournament never gave a flying fuck about Serena & Venus in 2001 so why should they ever return. Serena & Venus certainly don't need Indian Wells, but it's obvious Indian Wells needs them to return.

I guarantee you Serena & Venus will NEVER EVER return to that tournament and I support them 100% in their decision.
Why didn't the WTA or anyone else jump on Sania Mirza's back about skipping the Bangalore tournament last week.

Serena & Venus are getting their point across very effectively every year Indian Wells comes around on the WTA calendar. I hope that tournament continues to suffer until it is removed from the WTA calendar or better yet relocated to a more suitable & friendlier location.

The WTA will have to work out some sort of compromise for the Williams sisters nest year. More and likely the Williams' will be asked to play other tournaments to make up for the fact that they will not play Indian Wells next year.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:39 AM
The Williams Sisters have gotten over Indian Wells. They don't play there, they don't bring Indian Wells up. The only ones who don't usually are people who don't even support either sister. Those who have an objection over the sisters not playing are the ones who should accept, and move on.

:worship: as well

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:41 AM
You lack the sufficient brain cells to properly evaluate this situation, so it would be wise for you to hush on up,:tape: read and try and learn something. Your igonorance is glaring. touting Martina Hingis as wise beyond her years is laughable considering her current circumstances. :tape:

The reputation fo the tournament was tarnished by the racist crowds that attended the event. It's a testatment to Serena's upbringing and mental fortitude that she could not only face that crowd, but also win in the face of unrelenting booing; contrast that to Hingis losing 99 French and not wanting to return to the court to pick up her RUNNERS UP trophy.

good Lord!! :haha: :haha:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:43 AM
i think i pretty much summed up how i feel about this with my quotes lol

-VSR-
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:48 AM
Move on. Why do you people care? Seriously, let it go. They will not change their mind and rightfully so. You all need to stop complaining.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:51 AM
Since I live in LA (not far from Indian Wells), I hope they play so that I can see them! LOL But only if they get some public love down there.

If not, they should absolutely commit to Carson. Last year, neither played as I recall (Serena definitely didn't, as I was about to buy tickets when I found out she wasn't showing due to the usual -- injury).

Dave.
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:11 AM
I took the liberty of bolding what I feel is the key phrase of your post. I strongly suggest you buy and read two books: "Born to Win" by Frances Clayton Gray and Yanick Rice Lamb, and "Venus Envy" by Jon Wertheim. After reading those two books, you should understand where Venus and Serena are coming from.

Oh really? Name them.After you name them, tell me which one's say racism has never been an issue in tennis.

No doubt the fact that the West Side Tennis Club, that used to host the US Open, didn't even admit Blacks for most of the time they hosted it would be news to you. The fact that Althea Gibson was denied entry to the slams for most of her career would be news to you. Try reading Arthur Ashe's biography.

If ignorance is bliss you must be pretty damn happy.

gmokb took me up on this already and I corrected what I meant to say. But, thanks for the advice.

LudwigDvorak
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:18 AM
http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:

She's also accused Venus of faking injuries as recently as '04. :hearts:

When Elena made her one good slam run back in 2000, she was asked who she thought would win between Hingis and Venus, and she said she thought Hingis would win since she's a lot better and had a better game anyway.

I think Elena beating Venus in their first match got to her head for a couple of years, thinking she could hang with either of them. :lol:

Serenidad.
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:24 AM
She's also accused Venus of faking injuries as recently as '04. :hearts:

When Elena made her one good slam run back in 2000, she was asked who she thought would win between Hingis and Venus, and she said she thought Hingis would win since she's a lot better and had a better game anyway.

I think Elena beating Venus in their first match got to her head for a couple of years, thinking she could hang with either of them. :lol:


Slamless forever. :wavey:

LudwigDvorak
Mar 12th, 2008, 09:40 AM
Your point being? I'm not exactly praising Elena or saying she's better than either. :unsure:

Second time in a couple of days I've had some feeble "lena aint got no slam!1" response after discussing the Williams in some format on here.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 12th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Your point being? I'm not exactly praising Elena or saying she's better than either. :unsure:

Second time in a couple of days I've had some feeble "lena aint got no slam!1" response after discussing the Williams in some format on here.

First time shame on them second time shame on you...

Yeah Elena, and a few others used to run their mouths about the Williams sisters(family) quite often, not knowing they were revealing more about their lack of character, than anything they said about the sisters.

"I don't know maybe it's a lack of formal education?" damn I love that quote!!:worship::worship::tape::lol::drool:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 04:35 PM
^nothing will ever trump that quote lol :lol:

serenus_2k8
Mar 12th, 2008, 06:39 PM
:haha: You gotta be crazy to try and take on the WS over the media, they're too fearless to lose! :lol:

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Surely boycotting the tournament due to what happened is just saying they're guilty

This has to be the stupidest statement made this year and that's saying a lot. :weirdo:

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 07:29 PM
*groan* No, they won't ever play there again. They won't be pressured by the WTA and it's not about segregation, it's not about being cowardly, it's not about the fact that it happened eons ago, it's about principal. It's about letting people (the organizers of the tourney and the WTA) know, that they won't be abused or mistreated for any reason or any amount of money. It's about pride. So forget it. It ain't gonna happen.

[I wonder if this subect will continue to resurface every year until they both retire?] :awww:

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Monica was stabbed to death and the killer gets out! Williams was just booed!!

:spit:

:haha: :haha: :haha: Monica's dead???!!! I thought she was on Dancing with the Stars this season?? :confused:


:haha: *dead* My staff hears me laughing hysterically in my office and thinks I've officially lost it. :haha: :haha:

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Well, that could be a point. WTA and Organizers could have made a move and did some public apology. But do you really think it would made any difference?
I'm not sure how booing you could be life threatening. Honestly I dont see any point to bring the racism back into this equation. Well maybe because I'm not of the same color that I would never understand this issue the way you do.
But going back to the issue, Its been more than 5 years!!!! Forgiveness is the word! Is it really on the level of letting your stabber out of the prison so soon?

Well, now I understand why you don't get it. You don't understand why they boycotted the tournament in the first place and even if you did understand, you don't believe their accusations of racially derogatory rants, statements and boos they had to endure during the final of that match between Serena (then 17 years old) and Kim. If you don't understand or believe the genesis of why this all occured, you'll never understand why they will never go back. Therefore, you will continue to be frustrated by this situation. In a way, I feel sorry for you and those in your shoes. :sad: :hug:

eugreene2
Mar 12th, 2008, 07:48 PM
I believe them when they say they were more than booed ... good for them for standing up to what they believe. I still have that match on tape and it was a disgrace. They booed Serena THROUGHOUT the match and she had done NOTHING to them. You can say what you will but there was an atmosphere of racism in that stadium. I wouldn't return either. I loved it when she regrouped after that 1st set & kicked Kim's butt to get even more under their racist skin.

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:03 PM
The reaction would've been the same to any two siblings. RACE had nothing to do with it. As long as African Americans keep abusing their status as a racial minority there will never be racial equality in the US. The way the Williams family handled this affair is nothing to be proud of.

:spit: Notice how everything seems to be black people's fault in his eyes? :haha:

OMG What a :weirdo:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:08 PM
This thread has gone on for too long.

Let me have the closing line:

"F*ck Indian Wells!"

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:10 PM
http://tennis.about.com/library/weekly/aa031801.htm

^^ Interesting article...I didn't know Dementieva said that. :unsure:

Back then, those girls, including Lindsay thought they could say whatever they wanted about the WS without any repurcussion. I think one of the most important things that the WTA tour learned since V&S have been on tour was respect for fellow players.

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Agreed. The racism thing is blown out of proprtion. Tennis has had many black champions before and racism has never been an issue as far as I know.

.

:spit: Oh my. I don't think I've ever seen so many ignorant posters in one place in my life.

:haha:

VishaalMaria
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:22 PM
:spit: Oh my. I don't think I've ever seen so many ignorant posters in one place in my life.

:haha:


Looks like you're having fun :P :P :P

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Looks like you're having fun :P :P :P

I am, I am. :p I think my favorite of all was that Monica was stabbed to death and they let the killer go free.

:haha: I'm still laughing at that one.

Dave.
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:34 PM
:lol::haha::spit::rolls:

:easily amused: :lol::o

Denise4925
Mar 12th, 2008, 08:35 PM
:lol::haha::spit::rolls:

:easily amused: :lol::o

Not really ;)

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:20 PM
seems you had as much fun as me going through this thread denise :lol:

Kworb
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:20 PM
:spit: Notice how everything seems to be black people's fault in his eyes? :haha:

OMG What a :weirdo:
When did I say that? :weirdo: Paranoid defensiveness is only emphasizing the difference between races. All people have done is ridicule me rather than refute my points constructively. :help:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:22 PM
When did I say that? :weirdo: Paranoid defensiveness is only emphasizing the difference between races. All people have done is ridicule me rather than refute my points constructively. :help:

you had a point???? :scratch:

Kart
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:23 PM
They're not going to play there ever again.

Quite rightly given how they feel they were treated.

Kworb
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:27 PM
you had a point???? :scratch:

:eek: Please work on your reading comprehension! :)

hotandspicey
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:32 PM
When did I say that? :weirdo: Paranoid defensiveness is only emphasizing the difference between races. All people have done is ridicule me rather than refute my points constructively. :help:


All you did was set up yourself to be ridiculed. :o You made no points.:tape: And the nerve of you to have Venus and Serena in your sig..:help: :rolleyes: :fiery:
however small.

dynamoRockstarr
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:37 PM
if the WTA r doing this mandatory thing just to pick up Indian Wells, they can do it. The Williams sisters are sticking to their words, meaning what they said and showing it. Like some other poster said, get Maria. Justine is the #1 player currently and its said that she's not playing, isnt that a big loss as well for the tournament?

Venus and Serena's reason for not going to IW is so simple. Which is why i dont understand sum posters r really over-analyzing it. The Sisters are over it - its a done deal - Never will IW have the Sisters play there -PERIOD!

Expat
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:39 PM
All you did was set up yourself to be ridiculed. :o You made no points.:tape: And the nerve of you to have Venus and Serena in your sig..:help: :rolleyes: :fiery:
however small.
so the only people who can support venus and serena and add them to their siggys are those who agree with them at every thing they do?
ps: i do support them over their refusal to play indian wells but i dont support serena constantly withdrawing from 3 out of 4 tournaments she puts in her schedule

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:44 PM
so the only people who can support venus and serena and add them to their siggys are those who agree with them at every thing they do?
ps: i do support them over their refusal to play indian wells but i dont support serena constantly withdrawing from 3 out of 4 tournaments she puts in her schedule

two different situations though...i agree with you about not being a fool behind them, but this situation a true fan would never be blind to, particularly when the said players don't ever bring up this topic

rjd1111
Mar 12th, 2008, 10:47 PM
When did I say that? :weirdo: Paranoid defensiveness is only emphasizing the difference between races. All people have done is ridicule me rather than refute my points constructively. :help:


People have done that. You just can't see it.

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:06 AM
All you did was set up yourself to be ridiculed. :o You made no points.:tape: And the nerve of you to have Venus and Serena in your sig..:help: :rolleyes: :fiery:
however small.

I like to watch them play, that's why they're in my sig. :)

People's reactions to me are just affirmation that the US still has a long way to go to reach European levels of racial equality. Then again, our problems are more of a religious nature; sadly people will always have preconceived notions of others.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:26 AM
I like to watch them play, that's why they're in my sig. :)

People's reactions to me are just affirmation that the US still has a long way to go to reach European levels of racial equality. Then again, our problems are more of a religious nature; sadly people will always have preconceived notions of others.
Hasn't there been racial issues in Europe in the past couple of years, specifically Germany, where during the World Cup some players of African descent were told not to go into certain towns and areas. And I guess the world has just forgotten what happend in the Paris suburbs two or three years ago. Racism is not an issue unique to the USA, its a world wide issue. And again if someone had threatened to LYNCH MY FATHER IN THE STANDS I WOULD NOT GO BACK TO IW EITHER!!! It's not only an issue about atmosphere and treatment, but its also an issue about safety.

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:33 AM
I think they won't play because they don't want to be admittedly guilty of what they did. Serena was not booed because she was black, she was booed because of what happened in the semifinal. Not only did Venus retire from there semi, but she retired 2 minutes before the match was to begin. The spectators were seated, the umpire/linespeople/ballpeople were ready to go and the match was about to go to air, and then Venus pulls out. No courtesy for what's going on in everybody elses life, except their own - and thats why the crowd was infuriated.

I have no doubt in my mind that it was not injury that forced this retirement, it was purely a personal decision by either Venus, or the entire Williams entourage, that Serena would be the one in the final.

I'm absolutely positive that if the Radwanska sisters or the Bodarenko sisters had pulled a stunt like that in the semifinals of Indian Wells, the sister in the final would be booed aswell. I know I would have been booing for all those spectators that gave up their day, and paid a lot of money for a ticket, to watch a quality semifinal and were faced with that sort of situation.

Sorry Williams fans. BTW - I know the Williams' sisters have matured alot since then, I quite like them, and it was great to see them square of in Bangalore last week.

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:36 AM
Here the problems are more socio-economic.

Safety? There are racists everywhere. I guess he should just not appear in public if he is that scared.

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:40 AM
To those who think the Williams sisters decision is somehow noble. If you go to a mall and someone harasses you, will you never shop there again? And if you take that course how are you addressing what happened?

They can chose to do whatever they want but I don't see it as noble or "right" or standing up for any sort of cause.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:44 AM
I think they won't play because they don't want to be admittedly guilty of what they did. Serena was not booed because she was black, she was booed because of what happened in the semifinal. Not only did Venus retire from there semi, but she retired 2 minutes before the match was to begin. The spectators were seated, the umpire/linespeople/ballpeople were ready to go and the match was about to go to air, and then Venus pulls out. No courtesy for what's going on in everybody elses life, except their own - and thats why the crowd was infuriated.

I have no doubt in my mind that it was not injury that forced this retirement, it was purely a personal decision by either Venus, or the entire Williams entourage, that Serena would be the one in the final.
I'm absolutely positive that if the Radwanska sisters or the Bodarenko sisters had pulled a stunt like that in the semifinals of Indian Wells, the sister in the final would be booed aswell. I know I would have been booing for all those spectators that gave up their day, and paid a lot of money for a ticket, to watch a quality semifinal and were faced with that sort of situation.

Sorry Williams fans. BTW - I know the Williams' sisters have matured alot since then, I quite like them, and it was great to see them square of in Bangalore last week.
BULLSHIT! Players pull out of matches all the time with injuries. Just prior to a match, one game into a match or after the first set and are never subjected to what they had to go thru. Much less days later. And when was the last time a players coach was threatened with bodily harm and DEATH? Would you like for you mother or father to experience something like that? Why is it so difficult for "certain people" to give Venus and Serena the benefit of the doubt? Venus made a last minute decision that her injury prohibited her from playing a match. Would the crowd have been happy to see Venus limping from side to side of the court just so "they" could get their moneys worth? Give me a break

darrinbaker00
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:45 AM
When did I say that? :weirdo: Paranoid defensiveness is only emphasizing the difference between races. All people have done is ridicule me rather than refute my points constructively. :help:
We're just giving your points the responses they deserve, my friend.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:46 AM
To those who think the Williams sisters decision is somehow noble. If you go to a mall and someone harasses you, will you never shop there again? And, if you take that course how are you addressing what happened?

They can chose to do whatever they want but I don't see it as noble or "right" or standing up for any sort of cause.
You're joking right? "What if" there were two dozen other malls you could shop at, why be bother with one that you had a horrible experience at and where death and bodily harm was threatened against your family??

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:47 AM
Serena was not booed because she was black, she was booed because of what happened in the semifinal. Not only did Venus retire from there semi, but she retired 2 minutes before the match was to begin. The spectators were seated, the umpire/linespeople/ballpeople were ready to go and the match was about to go to air, and then Venus pulls out. No courtesy for what's going on in everybody elses life, except their own - and thats why the crowd was infuriated.

I have no doubt in my mind that it was not injury that forced this retirement, it was purely a personal decision by either Venus, or the entire Williams entourage, that Serena would be the one in the final.

I'm absolutely positive that if the Radwanska sisters or the Bodarenko sisters had pulled a stunt like that in the semifinals of Indian Wells, the sister in the final would be booed aswell. I know I would have been booing for all those spectators that gave up their day, and paid a lot of money for a ticket, to watch a quality semifinal and were faced with that sort of situation.

Sorry Williams fans. BTW - I know the Williams' sisters have matured alot since then, I quite like them, and it was great to see them square of in Bangalore last week.

Tahts it!!!Thanks Mr Dokic. I think you have assessed what happened accurately. 'Course the "Williams sisters are always right" folks won't accept it. And, it is possible that the sisters really haven't reflected on this being the cause.

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:49 AM
BULLSHIT! Players pull out of matches all the time with injuries. Just prior to a match, one game into a match or after the first set and are never subjected to what they had to go thru. Much less days later. And when was the last time a players coach was threatened with bodily harm and DEATH? Would you like for you mother or father to experience something like that? Why is it so difficult for "certain people" to give Venus and Serena the benefit of the doubt? Venus made a last minute decision that her injury prohibited her from playing a match. Would the crowd have been happy to see Venus limping from side to side of the court just so "they" could get their moneys worth? Give me a break

No I won't give you a break. I have never before seen a player withdraw from a match 2 minutes before it is scheduled to begin. Sure, an hour, even half an hour before the match, but 2 minutes before the match is unbelievably ridiculous. Injured or not, it shows blatant disrespect to the tournament and to tennis fans, in particular their own.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:54 AM
No I won't give you a break. I have never before seen a player withdraw from a match 2 minutes before it is scheduled to begin. Sure, an hour, even half an hour before the match, but 2 minutes before the match is unbelievably ridiculous. Injured or not, it shows blatant disrespect to the tournament and to tennis fans, in particular their own.
So you've been aware of the timing of EVERY match on both the ATP and WTA where a player has pulled out due to an injury in the history of professional tennis??? Again, and let me get the quote right, "BULLSHIT!".

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:56 AM
I like to watch them play, that's why they're in my sig. :)

People's reactions to me are just affirmation that the US still has a long way to go to reach European levels of racial equality. Then again, our problems are more of a religious nature; sadly people will always have preconceived notions of others.

that just ended it for me there.... this one seriously shows how little you know about the world you live in :weirdo:

DA FOREHAND
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I think they won't play because they don't want to be admittedly guilty of what they did. Serena was not booed because she was black, she was booed because of what happened in the semifinal. Not only did Venus retire from there semi, but she retired 2 minutes before the match was to begin. The spectators were seated, the umpire/linespeople/ballpeople were ready to go and the match was about to go to air, and then Venus pulls out. No courtesy for what's going on in everybody elses life, except their own - and thats why the crowd was infuriated.

I have no doubt in my mind that it was not injury that forced this retirement, it was purely a personal decision by either Venus, or the entire Williams entourage, that Serena would be the one in the final.

I'm absolutely positive that if the Radwanska sisters or the Bodarenko sisters had pulled a stunt like that in the semifinals of Indian Wells, the sister in the final would be booed aswell. I know I would have been booing for all those spectators that gave up their day, and paid a lot of money for a ticket, to watch a quality semifinal and were faced with that sort of situation.

Sorry Williams fans. BTW - I know the Williams' sisters have matured alot since then, I quite like them, and it was great to see them square of in Bangalore last week.

LOUD AND WRONG!!
The onsite trainer, and later a Dr. checked Venus out and suggested she not play, and yes it was a personal decision, do I play this match and further injury myself, or do I pull out and live to play another day. Venus did the right thing in pulling out.

It's up to the WTA tour and the tournament officials to appease those who paid to see the match. The WTA has since gotten much better at addressing situations such as this.

For those posters that don't understand why some are calling the incident racist let me say this. Why is it so easy for you to believe that the Williams sisters would fix a match? Where is the evidence? Had this been the Maleava's(s/p), the Radwanska's(s/p) we wouldn't be having this conversation now, nor would anyone ever accuse them of fixing matches.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I think they won't play because they don't want to be admittedly guilty of what they did. Serena was not booed because she was black, she was booed because of what happened in the semifinal. Not only did Venus retire from there semi, but she retired 2 minutes before the match was to begin. The spectators were seated, the umpire/linespeople/ballpeople were ready to go and the match was about to go to air, and then Venus pulls out. No courtesy for what's going on in everybody elses life, except their own - and thats why the crowd was infuriated.

I have no doubt in my mind that it was not injury that forced this retirement, it was purely a personal decision by either Venus, or the entire Williams entourage, that Serena would be the one in the final.

I'm absolutely positive that if the Radwanska sisters or the Bodarenko sisters had pulled a stunt like that in the semifinals of Indian Wells, the sister in the final would be booed aswell. I know I would have been booing for all those spectators that gave up their day, and paid a lot of money for a ticket, to watch a quality semifinal and were faced with that sort of situation.

Sorry Williams fans. BTW - I know the Williams' sisters have matured alot since then, I quite like them, and it was great to see them square of in Bangalore last week.

:weirdo: as well

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:58 AM
So you've been aware of the timing of EVERY match on both the ATP and WTA where a player has pulled out due to an injury in the history of professional tennis??? Again, and let me get the quote right, "BULLSHIT!".

You're being ridiculous. If it has happened it's very rare and if it happens with one of the main attractions people are going to be pissed!

You may not agree that was the case but at least be real.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:01 AM
I belive Justine Henin pulled out of the A.O. final because she was having a lesbian affair with Amelie and wanted her to win a Grand Slam championship. The affair ended shortly after the 06 Us Open.

I believe this because lesbians espcially white lesbians cannot be trusted. :rolleyes:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:02 AM
I belive Justine Henin pulled out of the A.O. final because she was having a lesbian affair with Amelie and wanted her to win a Grand Slam championship. The affair ended shortly after the 06 Us Open.

I believe this because lesbians espcially white lesbians cannot be trusted. :rolleyes:

gafaw!!!!!!!!! :haha: i can't rep you so soon....stop it :haha:

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:03 AM
So you've been aware of the timing of EVERY match on both the ATP and WTA where a player has pulled out due to an injury in the history of professional tennis??? Again, and let me get the quote right, "BULLSHIT!".

No, of course not, and sarcasm noted also :rolleyes: Tell you what, if you can inform me of one professional WTA/ATP match, just one, where an opponent has withdrawn 2 minutes before it's scheduled beginning I will animorph into a pig and fly myself, and that doesn't include the Williams-Williams semi at Indian Wells of course. Look forward to your reply, no doubt there will be one full of sarcasm and immaturity.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:03 AM
You're being ridiculous. If it has happened it's very rare and if it happens with one of the main attractions people are going to be pissed!

You may not agree that was the case but at least be real.
Well I suggest you go back and watch the AO Womens Final between Mauresmo and Henin from just a couple years back where Henin FUCKIN RETIRED in the FINALS of a MAJOR with a fuckin "TUMMY ACHE"!!!! And yet, no one screamed to hang her or her father or her coach!!!! NOW GO FUCK YOURSELF!

darrinbaker00
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:04 AM
I belive Justine Henin pulled out of the A.O. final because she was having a lesbian affair with Amelie and wanted her to win a Grand Slam championship. The affair ended shortly after the 06 Us Open.

I believe this because lesbians espcially white lesbians cannot be trusted. :rolleyes:
I believe that all 80 matches between Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova were fixed. I mean, it can't be coincidence that they both wound up winning 18 singles majors, right? ;)

cellophane
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:05 AM
Well I suggest you go back and watch the AO Womens Final between Mauresmo and Henin from just a couple years back where Henin FUCKIN RETIRED in the FINALS of a MAJOR with a fuckin "TUMMY ACHE"!!!! And yet, no one screamed to hang her or her father or her coach!!!! NOW GO FUCK YOURSELF!

:spit: :cuckoo:

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:07 AM
I believe that all 80 matches between Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova were fixed. I mean, it can't be coincidence that they both wound up winning 18 singles majors, right? ;)

me and you never see eye to eye but this time LOL i'll call a truce for this one LOL

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:07 AM
I belive Justine Henin pulled out of the A.O. final because she was having a lesbian affair with Amelie and wanted her to win a Grand Slam championship. The affair ended shortly after the 06 Us Open.

I believe this because lesbians espcially white lesbians cannot be trusted. :rolleyes:

I'm not basing my perception of the incident on the people involved, and their ethinicity. I'm basing it on the situation. Two very close sisters are scheduled to play eachother in the semifinal of a fairly high-profile tournament, and one withdraws before a point is played, 2 mins before matchs beginning, and the other goes through to the final.

Whether the sisters were white, black, asian or purple, it would have no bearing on my perception whatsoever.

brickhousesupporter
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:08 AM
I don't know as much as you do about this clearly.

I should have said I have never heard of a situation in which spectators were booing a player because they are black. I just think that in the 21st century, if a whole crowd in genera was against a player due to their skin colour, something would have happened (like in Miami last year with Serena). That is why I don't think the crowd were being racist (just a couple of people). The only reason for the booing from most people was due to the match fixing allegations.
That is exactly why the Williams sisters will not play in Indian Wells. The officials did nothing. They just allowed it to occur.

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:10 AM
:spit: :cuckoo:

Yea, I know RACISM a bitch ain't it and either you "get it" or you're the cause of it.

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:11 AM
I respect that this thread is about the Williams sisters but many here are acting as if this kind of thing only happens to them which is to use spartanfan's term - "bullshit"

---
Maria Sharapova stood midcourt on Sunday, smiling and blowing kisses to the crowd that was booing her.
The stadium rumbled with jeers as she exited, after beating Patty Schnyder in a tense, fourth-round match, 3-6, 6-4, 9-7. Over 2 hours 37 minutes, she courageously saved two match points. Still, the fans seemed to see nothing but a villain in a clingy blue tennis dress.
--

Crowd jeers as Safin quits Montreal Masters

MARAT SAFIN has been booed off the court after quitting with a knee injury when trailing
Frenchman NICOLAS ESCUDE 6-4 5-2 in the first round of the Montreal Masters tennis tournament.

The Russian second seed says there was no point carrying on when the knee injury flared.
----------

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:14 AM
Well I suggest you go back and watch the AO Womens Final between Mauresmo and Henin from just a couple years back where Henin FUCKIN RETIRED in the FINALS of a MAJOR with a fuckin "TUMMY ACHE"!!!! And yet, no one screamed to hang her or her father or her coach!!!! NOW GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Thanks for the suggestions.

darrinbaker00
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:17 AM
me and you never see eye to eye but this time LOL i'll call a truce for this one LOL
Truce? When were we fighting? :confused:

darrinbaker00
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Does your ridiculousness get more intense as you keep posting?
No more or less so than yours, I would imagine.....

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:19 AM
I respect that this thread is about the Williams sisters but many here are acting as if this kind of thing only happens to them which is to use spartanfan's term - "bullshit"

---
Maria Sharapova stood midcourt on Sunday, smiling and blowing kisses to the crowd that was booing her.
The stadium rumbled with jeers as she exited, after beating Patty Schnyder in a tense, fourth-round match, 3-6, 6-4, 9-7. Over 2 hours 37 minutes, she courageously saved two match points. Still, the fans seemed to see nothing but a villain in a clingy blue tennis dress.
--

Crowd jeers as Safin quits Montreal Masters

MARAT SAFIN has been booed off the court after quitting with a knee injury when trailing
Frenchman NICOLAS ESCUDE 6-4 5-2 in the first round of the Montreal Masters tennis tournament.

The Russian second seed says there was no point carrying on when the knee injury flared.
----------

how is getting booed the same as having racial slurs being chanted :weirdo:

but following the lead of my faves...they ignore this topic and so shall i :wavey: (except to laugh at the comments Da Forehand makes :angel: )

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:19 AM
Yea, I know RACISM a bitch ain't it and either you "get it" or you're the cause of it.
What's a "bitch" is people who think that every time someone Black get some flak, it's racism. And are so offended when others don't agree.

No Name Face
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:19 AM
Not playing Indian Wells is like staying in the back of the bus. It would be better if they return and make a stand rather than support this cowardly segregation.

dot...dot...dot...

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:20 AM
Truce? When were we fighting? :confused:

lol never....i said i just never see eye to eye with you lol and i never quote you to agree with you that's all :lol:

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:22 AM
how is getting booed the same as having racial slurs being chanted :weirdo:

but following the lead of my faves...they ignore this topic and so shall i :wavey: (except to laugh at the comments Da Forehand makes :angel: )

Oh yeah jeering crowds are shouting sweetest things. Good for you to follow your favs. Could you get District Attorney Forehand to follow along with you?

Wait - your handle is "Team Williams" No doubt you bring an open, unbiased view. :haha:

Judging Amy
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Well I suggest you go back and watch the AO Womens Final between Mauresmo and Henin from just a couple years back where Henin FUCKIN RETIRED in the FINALS of a MAJOR with a fuckin "TUMMY ACHE"!!!! And yet, no one screamed to hang her or her father or her coach!!!! NOW GO FUCK YOURSELF!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! I PRESUME THAT'S A JOKE? :spit: :help::tape:

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:33 AM
"When Venus and I were walking down the stairs to our seats, people kept calling me ******," Williams said in the newspaper.

"One guy said, `I wish it was '75; we'd skin you alive.' That's when I stopped and walked toward that way. Then I realized that (my) best bet was to handle the situation nonviolently. I had trouble holding back the tears. I think Indian Wells disgraced America."

Charles Pasarell, director of the Indian Wells tournament, told the paper he was "cringing when all that stuff was going on. It was unfair for the crowd to do that." Of the racial taunting, he said, "If Richard says someone yelled something, maybe they did, but I know that's not Indian Wells people."

So who here was actually there? How many people were "chanting" racial slurs? Why do the few bad seeds represent all of Indian Wells? You should only judge the individual and not the group to which they belong.

pov
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:33 AM
No more or less so than yours, I would imagine.....
What, did he lose the ability to respond for himself?

LDVTennis
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:40 AM
Six: Tournament almost went bankrupt, had to be bought out by WTA.
Seven: Venus wins Wimbledon and US Open again, becomes #1
Eight: Serena goes onto hold all four slam titles simultaneously.
Nine: IW goes from network TV to bigtime cable to small time cable as TV ratings dropped and dropped.
Ten: Willys go on to VERY nice careers, both be #1 in the world, win six and eight slams respectively, while having nice side careers as designers.

Everybody wins.:)

Stop misrepresenting the facts already.

The tournament was NOT EVER on the verge of bankruptcy. Certain revenues promised to the tournament by an outside marketing agency never materialized. When this happened, the original tournament owners recapitalized by selling a share of the tournament to IMG.

Eventually, IMG sought to sell its stake in the tournament. (Before you ask, IMG sought to sell its stake because it was no longer keen on owning stakes in tournaments as a way of promoting the interests of its clients.) The original owners of the tournament had two options at this point: (1) a repurchase of IMG's stake or (2) a joint sale of their stake along with IMG's to some other party. For a while, IMG was aggressively pushing the second option because the profit from selling the tournament to a Chinese promoter, for instance, was rumored to be quite large.

What eventually happened, however, was that the USTA (not the WTA) stepped in and bought out IMG, thus insuring that the tournament stayed in the US. At the same time, the original owners of the tournment reached an aggrement with the city on selling some of the adjacent land. With the proceeds of that, they were able to pay down the principal on the loan they took out to build the stadium, thus lowering their principal commitments and interest.

Today, the tournament is in very good financial shape.

As to the rest, you keep perpetuating the myth that the vagaries in TV coverage at IW have somehow been the result of the absence of the William's sisters. This is simply not supported by the facts. I've tried to tell you this once before.

To be sure, ESPN ended coverage of Indian Wells because of unsatisfactory performance. But, it did the same thing at Key Biscayne, an event the Williams' sisters have always supported. So, what gives?

There just is no commercial rational for tennis coverage outside of the Grand Slams. That is what gives. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the Williams' sisters. If it did, ESPN would still be covering the tournament at Key Biscayne.

Here is something more to think about: Under its former agreement with ESPN, Indian Wells never received compensation for the rights to broadcast the tournament. As compensation, it simply received the rights to sell commercial time on ESPN's broacasts in the local markets, local market meaning the coverage area of the local cable provider in Indian Wells/Palm Springs. With Fox, I'm sure it will receive the same rights. So, really nothing lost, nothing gained.

Moreover, most of Indian Wells' revenue comes from ticket sales, particularly season ticket packages. With Indian Wells, we are talking about a tournament that is very well supported by the local community. I think this explains in large part why the tournament organizers never admonished the crowd for their behavior that day. They risked alienating the people who really pay the bills.

Now, I was there that day. The booing was loud and disruptive, but there was never any indication that the crowd would resort to violence. No one threw anything onto the court, a prelude one would think to further action on behalf of the crowd.

I remember reading later that Richard said he was threatened with violence on the way to his seat. Richard was sitting in the boxes on the opposite side from me. He sat there the whole time. No one caused him any harm.

I can understand how uncomfortable it had to have been for Serena to play with all the animosity from the crowd and for Richard and Venus to sit through it. Understanding this, I began cheering for Serena as loud as I could. And, I am not even a fan of hers.

Having said all this, when the booing began, I turned to the man sitting in the box next to ours to ask him what was happening. From him, I learned that the crowd was upset with Venus's withdrawal from the semifinal match. (There apparently had also been an article in the local paper that day suggesting that the withdrawal had been staged.) Now, if the crowd used this withdrawal as a pretext for venting their latent racist feelings, none of us will ever know for sure. I was there. And, even I can't say anything more than that the crowd was upset with what had happened the round before. Had I heard the gentleman who explained all of this to me use a racial epithet when describing the Williams' sisters, I might have reached a different conclusion. But, he didn't. I never heard anyone say anything of a racist nature about the Williams' sisters that day.

Serena'sboo
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:32 AM
YOU KNOW I HAVE BEEN WRITTING EDITORIALS THATS HOW LONG MY RESPONSES HAVE BEEN LATLEY TO TOPICS ON HERE'S MY NEW SIGNATURE THING AND ITS CALLED THE BOTTOM LINE:

BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THEIR FATHER WAS RACIALLY TAUNTED AND THEY WERE TOO!!!! EVERYBODY WANTS TO NEGLECT TO REMEMBER THEY WERE CALLED NAMES TOO!!!! IF YOUR MOTHER OR FATHER WENT SOMEWHERE AND THEY WERE RACIALLY TAUNTED YOU WOULD NEVER GO BACK, AND IF YOU WERE TOO WHY GO BACK. ITS NOT ABOUT BEING STUCK IN A MINDSET, ITS ABOUT STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES AND NOT PUSHING SIDE THE FACT THAT THE OFFICIALS AND ORGANIZERS DID NOTHING !!! BOTTOM LINE IF YOU WERE IN THAT SITUATION YOU WOULDN'T GO BACK TO !!!


now i did think about them getting over it and just playing but I'm black too and i know if i was targeted by called racial taunts and my mother or father was taunted too i wouldn't go back either.!!!

OsloErik
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:42 AM
Oh yeah jeering crowds are shouting sweetest things. Good for you to follow your favs. Could you get District Attorney Forehand to follow along with you?

There's a HUGE difference between being booed because of something that's happened (Schnyder was the underdog and got a couple rough calls; the French crowd loves underdogs and hates rough calls) and being booed because of speculation, and then having that jeering turn racist. Basically, the Williams believe (and fairly, I should add) that the Indian Wells crowd treated them in a completely unfair manner for absolutely no reason. Venus was legitimately injured. That's not something anyone can really refute. And then the crowd got incredibly ugly at the final, and the tournament didn't do a damn thing to stop it. At Miami last year, the tournament ejected the pig yelling at Serena. Indian Wells didn't do anything in 2001.

Serena's been booed before, but she's smart enough to know when she's done something to warrant booing. The French Open debacle was clearly not her fault entirely, but given the statements she made to the press before the tournament I don't think she sees the French crowd as racist.

And ultimately, I think the are correct to boycott Indian Wells. They know full well that Larry Scott isn't going to keep them out of Miami as punishment, because it does no good to deny two major tournaments big-name players when you are guaranteed to lose revenue at one already.

Melly Flew Us
Mar 13th, 2008, 03:15 AM
Why do you give a fuck that I give a fuck?
because, as the thread starter, you are subject to higher expectations of sense, understanding and comprehension. and you failed miserably.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 13th, 2008, 03:40 AM
I'm not basing my perception of the incident on the people involved, and their ethinicity. I'm basing it on the situation. Two very close sisters are scheduled to play eachother in the semifinal of a fairly high-profile tournament, and one withdraws before a point is played, 2 mins before matchs beginning, and the other goes through to the final.

Whether the sisters were white, black, asian or purple, it would have no bearing on my perception whatsoever.



So exactly what would Venus have needed other than the onsite trainer and a Dr. (Are you a Dr? did you examine her) telling her she's not fit to play to prove to you(as if she needs to) that she withdrew for legitimate reasons?

Rocketta
Mar 13th, 2008, 03:52 AM
I can't even believe, QL asked this question AGAIN? :haha:

-VSR-
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:10 AM
:yawn:

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:21 AM
So exactly what would Venus have needed other than the onsite trainer and a Dr. (Are you a Dr? did you examine her) telling her she's not fit to play to prove to you(as if she needs to) that she withdrew for legitimate reasons?

I'm not saying she should have played if she was legitamately injured. But couldn't she have been examined by the trainer and doctor an hour or two before, like any other competitive WTA player? Instead she made her decision 2 minutes, and it was 2 minutes, before they were expected on court. This, in my opinion, is what would tick me off if I were a spectator in the crowd, just a complete disregard for her fans, and it would be her fans in the crowds - who else would turn up to a Williams - Williams match other than either a Serena or Venus fan? :scratch:

Paneru
Mar 13th, 2008, 11:36 AM
I'm not saying she should have played if she was legitamately injured. But couldn't she have been examined by the trainer and doctor an hour or two before, like any other competitive WTA player? Instead she made her decision 2 minutes, and it was 2 minutes, before they were expected on court. This, in my opinion, is what would tick me off if I were a spectator in the crowd, just a complete disregard for her fans, and it would be her fans in the crowds - who else would turn up to a Williams - Williams match other than either a Serena or Venus fan? :scratch:

:lol:

Yeah, because we've never heard of players waiting til' the
last minute to decide because they are trying to see if at all
possible they could play. Ah, but these are the WS so ofcourse
something is up. :yawn:

And yeah, only WS fans were their to watch the match.

I swear, do people ever listen to themselves
before they open their mouths.

The WS have moved on, and yet every year it's the same....
that bring this bs up and whine about it! GET OVER IT! :p

Golovinjured.
Mar 13th, 2008, 11:57 AM
:lol:

Yeah, because we've never heard of players waiting til' the
last minute to decide because they are trying to see if at all
possible they could play. Ah, but these are the WS so ofcourse
something is up. :yawn:

And yeah, only WS fans were their to watch the match.

I swear, do people ever listen to themselves
before they open their mouths.

The WS have moved on, and yet every year it's the same....
that bring this bs up and whine about it! GET OVER IT! :p

No player has waited until the last 2 minutes to withdraw, in any given circumstance. I remember in the quarterfinals of the Australian Open when Amelie Mauresmo was scheduled to play Fabiola Zuluaga. Amelie knew she was injured, had a short hitout in the morning, and made the decision whether to play or not hours before the match was scheduled to begin, even though it was a Grand Slam. You either can or cannot play, and if you can't play 2 hours before the match, then you won't be able to play 2 minutes before either, and I think Venus should have withdrawn sooner.

Yeah it is the same every year, every week infact. A chance to discuss a certain event on the WTA circuit arises, including one or both Williams' sisters, and fans of either Venus or Serena go on and have a whinge everytime someone doesn't 100% agree with the actions of either sister. You don't have to get so defensive every time an interesting conversation comes up and all people don't agree with your opinion, keep it a bit mature yeah?

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 12:49 PM
What's a "bitch" is people who think that every time someone Black get some flak, it's racism. And are so offended when others don't agree.
Well when you turn black, and have racism directed towards you, come back to me and then we can have a real conversation. Until then you have no credibility on the topic.

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Well when you turn black, and have racism directed towards you, come back to me and then we can have a real conversation. Until then you have no credibility on the topic.
Everyone gets discriminated, whether it's their race or gender or sexuality or weight or height or physical appearance or religion or character or clothing etc. etc. It's just the way it is. You don't have to be black to understand the situation. :rolleyes:

mariahdg
Mar 13th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Haha,like a thread on Non-tennis
I agree Racial inequality works both ways

DA FOREHAND
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I'm not saying she should have played if she was legitamately injured. :

The only thing you've said in this thread that makes any sense. Are you saying the trainer and Dr that examined Venus prior to the scheduled match weren't legitamate?

Fast forward to Wimbledon. Venus injurs her abdominal muscles, in the semifinal, and still beats Kim(i'd rather fuck and make babies) down to make the final. Moments before the final she made her decision to risk further injury to play Serena; because it's WIMBLEDON!!! Not piddly little IW. If you can't see the diff.

WIMBLEDON... The greatest and most coveted title in tennis






IW Defending champ Daniela Hantu.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:33 PM
The only thing you've said in this thread that makes any sense. Are you saying the trainer and Dr that examined Venus prior to the scheduled match weren't legitamate?

Fast forward to Wimbledon. Venus injurs her abdominal muscles, in the semifinal, and still beats Kim(i'd rather fuck and make babies) down to make the final. Moments before the final she made her decision to risk further injury to play Serena; because it's WIMBLEDON!!! Not piddly little IW. If you can't see the diff.

WIMBLEDON... The greatest and most coveted title in tennis






IW Defending champ Daniela Hantu.

:lol: :lol: :lol: you really should stop :lol: :lol: :lol:

kiwifan
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:48 PM
Yeah it is the same every year, every week infact. A chance to discuss a certain event on the WTA circuit arises, including one or both Williams' sisters, and fans of either Venus or Serena go on and have a whinge everytime someone doesn't 100% agree with the actions of either sister. You don't have to get so defensive every time an interesting conversation comes up and all people don't agree with your opinion, keep it a bit mature yeah?

Actually it is you and the rest of the detractors "having a whinge" :nerner:

Most Williams fans are quite happy with the status quo. ;)

Sucks to be Indian Wells :lol:

Rocks to be a fan of the Williams Sisters. :cool:

Proud of them for taking a stand. :angel: No other crowd has behaved like that since then, since they know the consequences; booing is fine but that was fucked up and those fans and that tournament deserve to pay the price.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Actually it is you and the rest of the detractors "having a winge" :nerner:

Most Williams fans are quite happy with the status quo. ;)

Sucks to be Indian Wells :lol:

Rocks to be a fan of the Williams Sisters. :cool:

Proud of them for taking a stand. :angel:

:rocker2:

serenafan08
Mar 13th, 2008, 02:58 PM
No one has ever experienced anything like what the Williams sisters went through at IW in 2001. I'm really glad that Serena was able to overcome the jeers and win the title, but obviously it left a scar behind because neither one of them wants to ever play that tournament again. And really, it's great to see them sticking to their guns. Like my boy kiwi said, it's good to see them taking a stand. Serena and Venus are legends, and that's why this is such a big deal because they bring fans, and fans bring the $$$. You can put Maria Sharapova and Ana Ivanovic on any big stage, and they still won't draw the crowd that Serena and Venus would. I bet that even if Indian Wells was the only tournament on the calendar, Serena and Venus still wouldn't play it.

hablo
Mar 13th, 2008, 03:00 PM
The Williams sisters should just stick to their principles...
I pity the Miami tournament organizers though.

I belive Justine Henin pulled out of the A.O. final because she was having a lesbian affair with Amelie and wanted her to win a Grand Slam championship. The affair ended shortly after the 06 Us Open.

I believe this because lesbians espcially white lesbians cannot be trusted. :rolleyes:

:haha:

frontier
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:18 PM
I watched this match on tv Venus was a wearing a white top and a floral red and white skirt,they came in to sit in the stands and the crowd sitting near them went ballistic they were so intense and started booing and taunting Richard and Venus .It was so embarrassing to see the old red faced seniors ranting and raving.Unfortunately thats the ugliness of America that is renowned around the world.

Matt01
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:30 PM
No one has ever experienced anything like what the Williams sisters went through at IW in 2001.


Exaggerating much, eh?

Pureracket
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:34 PM
Damn, Matt. I haven't been over in GM for weeks and come see you're STILL trolling Williams threads. LOL!

Let go....let go.

Matt01
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Damn, Matt. I haven't been over in GM for weeks and come see you're STILL trolling Williams threads. LOL!

Let go....let go.


:lol:

I wish you would have stayed where you were, GM was a much better place without you :wavey:

Paneru
Mar 13th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Exaggerating much, eh?

Maybe in wording.

Yet, none of us know exactly how they felt and how
deep it ran for them. Yes, others have been through
similar stuff, but it has a different effect on everyone.

They have moved on. For them, this is a non-issue.
They have said their piece and it's been done.
Is it really so hard to honor their words and
just move on?

spartanfan
Mar 13th, 2008, 05:05 PM
I watched this match on tv Venus was a wearing a white top and a floral red and white skirt,they came in to sit in the stands and the crowd sitting near them went ballistic they were so intense and started booing and taunting Richard and Venus .It was so embarrassing to see the old red faced seniors ranting and raving.Unfortunately thats the ugliness of America that is renowned around the world.
Thank you. And why would anyone want to potentially re-expose their family to that?

bandabou
Mar 13th, 2008, 05:17 PM
Stop misrepresenting the facts already.

The tournament was NOT EVER on the verge of bankruptcy. Certain revenues promised to the tournament by an outside marketing agency never materialized. When this happened, the original tournament owners recapitalized by selling a share of the tournament to IMG.

Eventually, IMG sought to sell its stake in the tournament. (Before you ask, IMG sought to sell its stake because it was no longer keen on owning stakes in tournaments as a way of promoting the interests of its clients.) The original owners of the tournament had two options at this point: (1) a repurchase of IMG's stake or (2) a joint sale of their stake along with IMG's to some other party. For a while, IMG was aggressively pushing the second option because the profit from selling the tournament to a Chinese promoter, for instance, was rumored to be quite large.

What eventually happened, however, was that the USTA (not the WTA) stepped in and bought out IMG, thus insuring that the tournament stayed in the US. At the same time, the original owners of the tournment reached an aggrement with the city on selling some of the adjacent land. With the proceeds of that, they were able to pay down the principal on the loan they took out to build the stadium, thus lowering their principal commitments and interest.

Today, the tournament is in very good financial shape.

As to the rest, you keep perpetuating the myth that the vagaries in TV coverage at IW have somehow been the result of the absence of the William's sisters. This is simply not supported by the facts. I've tried to tell you this once before.

To be sure, ESPN ended coverage of Indian Wells because of unsatisfactory performance. But, it did the same thing at Key Biscayne, an event the Williams' sisters have always supported. So, what gives?

There just is no commercial rational for tennis coverage outside of the Grand Slams. That is what gives. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the Williams' sisters. If it did, ESPN would still be covering the tournament at Key Biscayne.

Here is something more to think about: Under its former agreement with ESPN, Indian Wells never received compensation for the rights to broadcast the tournament. As compensation, it simply received the rights to sell commercial time on ESPN's broacasts in the local markets, local market meaning the coverage area of the local cable provider in Indian Wells/Palm Springs. With Fox, I'm sure it will receive the same rights. So, really nothing lost, nothing gained.

Moreover, most of Indian Wells' revenue comes from ticket sales, particularly season ticket packages. With Indian Wells, we are talking about a tournament that is very well supported by the local community. I think this explains in large part why the tournament organizers never admonished the crowd for their behavior that day. They risked alienating the people who really pay the bills.

Now, I was there that day. The booing was loud and disruptive, but there was never any indication that the crowd would resort to violence. No one threw anything onto the court, a prelude one would think to further action on behalf of the crowd.

I remember reading later that Richard said he was threatened with violence on the way to his seat. Richard was sitting in the boxes on the opposite side from me. He sat there the whole time. No one caused him any harm.

I can understand how uncomfortable it had to have been for Serena to play with all the animosity from the crowd and for Richard and Venus to sit through it. Understanding this, I began cheering for Serena as loud as I could. And, I am not even a fan of hers.

Having said all this, when the booing began, I turned to the man sitting in the box next to ours to ask him what was happening. From him, I learned that the crowd was upset with Venus's withdrawal from the semifinal match. (There apparently had also been an article in the local paper that day suggesting that the withdrawal had been staged.) Now, if the crowd used this withdrawal as a pretext for venting their latent racist feelings, none of us will ever know for sure. I was there. And, even I can't say anything more than that the crowd was upset with what had happened the round before. Had I heard the gentleman who explained all of this to me use a racial epithet when describing the Williams' sisters, I might have reached a different conclusion. But, he didn't. I never heard anyone say anything of a racist nature about the Williams' sisters that day.

Interesting. So what you think should the sisters play again?
And if they play, how would the reaction be?

Serenita
Mar 13th, 2008, 05:28 PM
screw IW...wta should have punished that tourny. let them pay a penalty...wta dont have any balls in protecting theire players.

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 13th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Stop misrepresenting the facts already.

The tournament was NOT EVER on the verge of bankruptcy. Certain revenues promised to the tournament by an outside marketing agency never materialized. When this happened, the original tournament owners recapitalized by selling a share of the tournament to IMG.

Eventually, IMG sought to sell its stake in the tournament. (Before you ask, IMG sought to sell its stake because it was no longer keen on owning stakes in tournaments as a way of promoting the interests of its clients.) The original owners of the tournament had two options at this point: (1) a repurchase of IMG's stake or (2) a joint sale of their stake along with IMG's to some other party. For a while, IMG was aggressively pushing the second option because the profit from selling the tournament to a Chinese promoter, for instance, was rumored to be quite large.

What eventually happened, however, was that the USTA (not the WTA) stepped in and bought out IMG, thus insuring that the tournament stayed in the US. At the same time, the original owners of the tournment reached an aggrement with the city on selling some of the adjacent land. With the proceeds of that, they were able to pay down the principal on the loan they took out to build the stadium, thus lowering their principal commitments and interest.

Today, the tournament is in very good financial shape.

As to the rest, you keep perpetuating the myth that the vagaries in TV coverage at IW have somehow been the result of the absence of the William's sisters. This is simply not supported by the facts. I've tried to tell you this once before.

To be sure, ESPN ended coverage of Indian Wells because of unsatisfactory performance. But, it did the same thing at Key Biscayne, an event the Williams' sisters have always supported. So, what gives?

There just is no commercial rational for tennis coverage outside of the Grand Slams. That is what gives. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the Williams' sisters. If it did, ESPN would still be covering the tournament at Key Biscayne.

Here is something more to think about: Under its former agreement with ESPN, Indian Wells never received compensation for the rights to broadcast the tournament. As compensation, it simply received the rights to sell commercial time on ESPN's broacasts in the local markets, local market meaning the coverage area of the local cable provider in Indian Wells/Palm Springs. With Fox, I'm sure it will receive the same rights. So, really nothing lost, nothing gained.

Moreover, most of Indian Wells' revenue comes from ticket sales, particularly season ticket packages. With Indian Wells, we are talking about a tournament that is very well supported by the local community. I think this explains in large part why the tournament organizers never admonished the crowd for their behavior that day. They risked alienating the people who really pay the bills.

Now, I was there that day. The booing was loud and disruptive, but there was never any indication that the crowd would resort to violence. No one threw anything onto the court, a prelude one would think to further action on behalf of the crowd.

I remember reading later that Richard said he was threatened with violence on the way to his seat. Richard was sitting in the boxes on the opposite side from me. He sat there the whole time. No one caused him any harm.

I can understand how uncomfortable it had to have been for Serena to play with all the animosity from the crowd and for Richard and Venus to sit through it. Understanding this, I began cheering for Serena as loud as I could. And, I am not even a fan of hers.

Having said all this, when the booing began, I turned to the man sitting in the box next to ours to ask him what was happening. From him, I learned that the crowd was upset with Venus's withdrawal from the semifinal match. (There apparently had also been an article in the local paper that day suggesting that the withdrawal had been staged.) Now, if the crowd used this withdrawal as a pretext for venting their latent racist feelings, none of us will ever know for sure. I was there. And, even I can't say anything more than that the crowd was upset with what had happened the round before. Had I heard the gentleman who explained all of this to me use a racial epithet when describing the Williams' sisters, I might have reached a different conclusion. But, he didn't. I never heard anyone say anything of a racist nature about the Williams' sisters that day.
This is a very intersting post.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Mar 13th, 2008, 05:59 PM
I respect that this thread is about the Williams sisters but many here are acting as if this kind of thing only happens to them which is to use spartanfan's term - "bullshit"

---
Maria Sharapova stood midcourt on Sunday, smiling and blowing kisses to the crowd that was booing her.
The stadium rumbled with jeers as she exited, after beating Patty Schnyder in a tense, fourth-round match, 3-6, 6-4, 9-7. Over 2 hours 37 minutes, she courageously saved two match points. Still, the fans seemed to see nothing but a villain in a clingy blue tennis dress.
--

Crowd jeers as Safin quits Montreal Masters

MARAT SAFIN has been booed off the court after quitting with a knee injury when trailing
Frenchman NICOLAS ESCUDE 6-4 5-2 in the first round of the Montreal Masters tennis tournament.

The Russian second seed says there was no point carrying on when the knee injury flared.
----------


What the hell is the point of mentioning that? Serena was booed even worse when she played Justine at the FO, and if memory serves me right, didn't she play there last year?

DA FOREHAND
Mar 13th, 2008, 06:06 PM
What the hell is the point of mentioning that? Serena was booed even worse when she played Justine at the FO, and if memory serves me right, didn't she play there last year?

WRONG!!

At IW Serena was booed from beginning of the match all the way through the trophy presentation. I'm so proud of the way she handled things, and even prouder that she beat them all by winning the match.:worship::worship:

Had it been me I would have had the black glove on and a raised fist.

Groenefelder25
Mar 13th, 2008, 06:07 PM
you can see the reason in action!

if you watch this vid (from 3.37 onwards) its mainly about kim ;) but it has the crowd booing serena at the end

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OAX9970X7R0

~Cherry*Blossom~
Mar 13th, 2008, 06:13 PM
WRONG!!

At IW Serena was booed from beginning of the match all the way through the trophy presentation. I'm so proud of the way she handled things, and even prouder that she beat them all by winning the match.:worship::worship:

Had it been me I would have had the black glove on and a raised fist.

How is what I said wrong?

I was talking about Serena FO 03 (that's why I mentioned her match against Justine) which was even worse than what Sharapova got at the French Open.

eugreene2
Mar 13th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Let me say this - Being that venus doesn't ever wanna play there again, I take them at their word. Venus is a very gracious young lady. There was obviously some very derogatory things said to her regarding an injury that was real. The racial tension surrounding these girls was so high back then & the accusations of staged matches so strong that I completely understand their stance. Go on Williams!!! Stand for something or fall for anything. You two obviously chose to STAND!!!

winone23
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
To those who think the Williams sisters should get over it and go back to IW this is analogy is for you: Would you patronize the same restaurant if you found a rat in your food? If the answer your answer is no, Now can you understand why the Williams sisters don't want to go back to IW???

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:14 PM
To those who think the Williams sisters should get over it and go back to IW this is analogy is for you: Would you patronize the same restaurant if you found a rat in your food? If the answer your answer is no, Now can you understand why the Williams sisters don't want to go back to IW???
If I found a rat in my food I would sue them. :p But if someone at the restaurant called me a ****** who oughta be lynched then I certainly wouldn't say the people running the restaurant and everyone who goes there are a bunch of racists.

BuddaofVIRadio
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Blame the morality of the hagglers at Indian Wells for the Williams Family's choice not to participate in a professional tennis event where they were assalted for an extended period of time and still today there is no apology for the behavior. If disappointment causes this much dismay then why target this particular family? I'm sure these fans have experienced other disappointments while attending a sporting event or any other event in their lives. Shoot I'm still sobbing over Bush's electorial win (the first one)but I have no malicious thoughts towards his family. The attack crossed many lines and I fully support the Williams' decision to never play this event again. In fact I commend them for sticking to their guns.

The organizers of the event should have put a halt to this rowdy behavior and discouraged any future incidents. But did this occur?

I never imagined World Class Tennis could be thought of as a venue where its spectators lacked dignity and sophistication. Perhaps its all just a sign of the times. I think they refer to it as "Hell on Earth"

HippityHop
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Oh God, not this crap again. :rolleyes:

Destiny
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:20 PM
:o

rjd1111
Mar 13th, 2008, 07:24 PM
If I found a rat in my food I would sue them. :p But if someone at the restaurant called me a ****** who oughta be lynched then I certainly wouldn't say the people running the restaurant and everyone who goes there are a bunch of racists.


What if nearly everyone in the Restaurant called you those names

and the people running the restaurant just laughed and did nothing

Kworb
Mar 13th, 2008, 08:04 PM
What if nearly everyone in the Restaurant called you those names

and the people running the restaurant just laughed and did nothing
I don't know, that's not a realistic scenario, unless it was like a meeting of white supremacists.

rjd1111
Mar 13th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Stop misrepresenting the facts already.

The tournament was NOT EVER on the verge of bankruptcy. Certain revenues promised to the tournament by an outside marketing agency never materialized. When this happened, the original tournament owners recapitalized by selling a share of the tournament to IMG.

Eventually, IMG sought to sell its stake in the tournament. (Before you ask, IMG sought to sell its stake because it was no longer keen on owning stakes in tournaments as a way of promoting the interests of its clients.) The original owners of the tournament had two options at this point: (1) a repurchase of IMG's stake or (2) a joint sale of their stake along with IMG's to some other party. For a while, IMG was aggressively pushing the second option because the profit from selling the tournament to a Chinese promoter, for instance, was rumored to be quite large.

What eventually happened, however, was that the USTA (not the WTA) stepped in and bought out IMG, thus insuring that the tournament stayed in the US. At the same time, the original owners of the tournment reached an aggrement with the city on selling some of the adjacent land. With the proceeds of that, they were able to pay down the principal on the loan they took out to build the stadium, thus lowering their principal commitments and interest.

Today, the tournament is in very good financial shape.

As to the rest, you keep perpetuating the myth that the vagaries in TV coverage at IW have somehow been the result of the absence of the William's sisters. This is simply not supported by the facts. I've tried to tell you this once before.

To be sure, ESPN ended coverage of Indian Wells because of unsatisfactory performance. But, it did the same thing at Key Biscayne, an event the Williams' sisters have always supported. So, what gives?

There just is no commercial rational for tennis coverage outside of the Grand Slams. That is what gives. It has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the Williams' sisters. If it did, ESPN would still be covering the tournament at Key Biscayne.

Here is something more to think about: Under its former agreement with ESPN, Indian Wells never received compensation for the rights to broadcast the tournament. As compensation, it simply received the rights to sell commercial time on ESPN's broacasts in the local markets, local market meaning the coverage area of the local cable provider in Indian Wells/Palm Springs. With Fox, I'm sure it will receive the same rights. So, really nothing lost, nothing gained.

Moreover, most of Indian Wells' revenue comes from ticket sales, particularly season ticket packages. With Indian Wells, we are talking about a tournament that is very well supported by the local community. I think this explains in large part why the tournament organizers never admonished the crowd for their behavior that day. They risked alienating the people who really pay the bills.

Now, I was there that day. The booing was loud and disruptive, but there was never any indication that the crowd would resort to violence. No one threw anything onto the court, a prelude one would think to further action on behalf of the crowd.

I remember reading later that Richard said he was threatened with violence on the way to his seat. Richard was sitting in the boxes on the opposite side from me. He sat there the whole time. No one caused him any harm.

I can understand how uncomfortable it had to have been for Serena to play with all the animosity from the crowd and for Richard and Venus to sit through it. Understanding this, I began cheering for Serena as loud as I could. And, I am not even a fan of hers.

Having said all this, when the booing began, I turned to the man sitting in the box next to ours to ask him what was happening. From him, I learned that the crowd was upset with Venus's withdrawal from the semifinal match. (There apparently had also been an article in the local paper that day suggesting that the withdrawal had been staged.) Now, if the crowd used this withdrawal as a pretext for venting their latent racist feelings, none of us will ever know for sure. I was there. And, even I can't say anything more than that the crowd was upset with what had happened the round before. Had I heard the gentleman who explained all of this to me use a racial epithet when describing the Williams' sisters, I might have reached a different conclusion. But, he didn't. I never heard anyone say anything of a racist nature about the Williams' sisters that day.


Not making the expected big bucks that prompted building a new Stadium
and the Unsatisfactory Performance had nothing to do with losing
the top two draws in Tennis and the several other top players who
followed them not playing the event?

You spoke to ONE person who didn't use a racial slur and you were
on the other side. What about all the other thousands of people
and the ones sitting near Richard and Vee.