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View Full Version : Why is Davenport's H2H so miserable against Serena Williams?


bwahahahahaha
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Serena leads 10-4 :spit: I don't know any other player who has such a one sided H2H against Lindsay. Even Graf is 8-6. How do you explain that?

GoDominique
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Lindsay has mental issues when playing Serena.

Slumpsova
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:24 PM
and Henin :o

Dodoboy.
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Serena H2Hs against the majority of Grand Slam winners:drool:

V.Melb
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:33 PM
I dont think that there are any mental issues about it.

Serena moves faster than Davenport and hits more or less just as hard. Many of these wins came during Serenas peak period as well, when people were labelling her 'unbeatable' at her best.
Davenport has many qualities in her game that make her so tough, her accuracy, power, and serve. But at the time of many of these wins, Serena was a much tougher player than she is today, even if the game has advanced. Serena posseses the neccessary qualities to beat Davenport. And imo at her best, is slightly better, because of her speed and tenacity, two qualities that Lindsay is not known for.

Serenas excellent movement countered Davenports accuracy. Davenport would have to be painting lines continuously.
Serena hit juts as hard so no big advantage for one or the other in the power department. However Serena is more explosive in her power imo.
They both have increadable serves, Serena with extra points for her second serve.

Losing record 4-10 against Serena is nothing to be ashamed of though. Davenport might be able to get a few back if she stays on the tour a few more years.

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Movement

S Williams, in peak condition - is such a fine damn mover around a tennis court.

Lulu.
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I dont think that there are any mental issues about it.

Serena moves faster than Davenport and hits more or less just as hard. Many of these wins came during Serenas peak period as well, when people were labelling her 'unbeatable' at her best.
Davenport has many qualities in her game that make her so tough, her accuracy, power, and serve. But at the time of many of these wins, Serena was a much tougher player than she is today, even if the game has advanced. Serena posseses the neccessary qualities to beat Davenport. And imo at her best, is slightly better, because of her speed and tenacity, two qualities that Lindsay is not known for.

Serenas excellent movement countered Davenports accuracy. Davenport would have to be painting lines continuously.
Serena hit juts as hard so no big advantage for one or the other in the power department. However Serena is more explosive in her power imo.
They both have increadable serves, Serena with extra points for her second serve.

Losing record 4-10 against Serena is nothing to be ashamed of though. Davenport might be able to get a few back if she stays on the tour a few more years.


That pretty much sums it all up.

henree
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:45 PM
I think it is more mental than anything. Davenport doesn't do as well against mentally tough players. Like Henin, Sharapova, and Serena.

kwilliams
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I think every player has at least one other player who they are just week against despite how brilliant they might otherwise be.

Henin 9 - 0 Jankovic
Venus 7 - 2 Henin

I'm sure there are many other examples.

Although in saying that Serena has a really impressive H2H record against a lot of great and good players. In the following list Sanchez Vicario and Jankovic are the only players with a winning head to head and Venus, Henin, Graf and Farina Elia are all tied with Serena. Her records against Davenport, Clijsters and Mauresmo are all quite impressive.

Serena 1-1 Graf
Serena 4-1 Seles
Serena 3-4 Sanchez Vicario
Serena 1-0 Novotna
Serena 2-1 Tauziat
Serena 5-0 Martinez
Serena 5-1 Pierce
Serena 10-7 Capriati
Serena 10-4 Davenport
Serena 7-6 Hingis
Serena 2-0 Kournikova
Serena 1-0 Ruano Pascual
Serena 1-0 Suarez
Serena 2-0 Raymond
Serena 9-2 Mauresmo
Serena 6-6 Henin
Serena 7-1 Clijsters
Serena 4-1 Zvonareva
Serena 4-2 Sharapova
Serena 3-1 Kuznetsova
Serena 6-1 Hantuchova
Serena 6-1 Petrova
Serena 5-0 Myskina
Serena 4-1 Dementieva
Serena 1-0 Ivanovic
Serena 2-0 Vaidisova
Serena 4-0 Peer
Serena 3-2 Jankovic
Serena 2-0 Golovin
Serena 6-2 Schnyder
Serena 2-0 Safarova
Serena 3-0 Sugiyama
Serena 3-1 Schiavone
Serena 1-1 Farina Elia
Serena 2-0 Srebotnik
Serena 2-0 Molik
Serena 1-0 Li
Serena 3-0 Safina
Serena 7-7 Venus

spartanfan
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Movement and better player. Not really a brain-teaser.

Dave.
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Serena is the one player that has troubled Lindsay the most during her career that Lindsay hasen't been able to impose her will as much. Serena is the one who really got to Lindsay. Even in the late 90's when Lindsay was at her best, Serena still got most of the wins.

It's not because Serena is necessarily better than Lindsay as a tennis player (IMO Lindsay has a better game), but I think the sheer athletiscm and willingess to fight got to Lindsay. Lindsay has been able to deal with the other strong wills in the game (Justine, Venus, Maria), but Serena had the strongest will. Some of their matches have been close though, it's not as if Lindsay was being thrashed all the time.

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:49 PM
I think every player has at least one other player who they are just week against despite how brilliant they might otherwise be.

Henin 9 - 0 Jankovic
Venus 7 - 2 Henin

I'm sure there are many other examples.

Although in saying that Serena has a really impressive H2H record against a lot of great and good players. In the following list Sanchez Vicario and Jankovic are the only players with a winning head to head and Venus, Henin, Graf and Farina Elia are all tied with Serena. Her records against Davenport, Clijsters and Mauresmo are all quite impressive.


Serena 3-2 Jankovic


Hoping for H2H 3-3, at the end of the week. :cool: :angel:

RJWCapriati
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I think every player has at least one other player who they are just week against despite how brilliant they might otherwise be.

Henin 9 - 0 Jankovic
Venus 7 - 2 Henin

I'm sure there are many other examples.

Although in saying that Serena has a really impressive H2H record against a lot of great and good players. In the following list Sanchez Vicario and Jankovic are the only players with a winning head to head and Venus, Henin, Graf and Farina Elia are all tied with Serena. Her records against Davenport, Clijsters and Mauresmo are all quite impressive.

Serena 1-1 Graf
Serena 4-1 Seles
Serena 3-4 Sanchez Vicario
Serena 1-0 Novotna
Serena 2-1 Tauziat
Serena 5-0 Martinez
Serena 5-1 Pierce
Serena 10-7 Capriati
Serena 10-4 Davenport
Serena 7-6 Hingis
Serena 2-0 Kournikova
Serena 1-0 Ruano Pascual
Serena 1-0 Suarez
Serena 2-0 Raymond
Serena 9-2 Mauresmo
Serena 6-6 Henin
Serena 7-1 Clijsters
Serena 4-1 Zvonareva
Serena 4-2 Sharapova
Serena 3-1 Kuznetsova
Serena 6-1 Hantuchova
Serena 6-1 Petrova
Serena 5-0 Myskina
Serena 4-1 Dementieva
Serena 1-0 Ivanovic
Serena 2-0 Vaidisova
Serena 4-0 Peer
Serena 3-2 Jankovic
Serena 2-0 Golovin
Serena 6-2 Schnyder
Serena 2-0 Safarova
Serena 3-0 Sugiyama
Serena 3-1 Schiavone
Serena 1-1 Farina Elia
Serena 2-0 Srebotnik
Serena 2-0 Molik
Serena 1-0 Li
Serena 3-0 Safina
Serena 7-7 Venus

Williams leads Schnyder 6-3

Dave.
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Hoping for H2H 3-3, at the end of the week. :cool: :angel:

Jelena leads 3-2 so you're hoping for 4-2, no?

Elldee
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Lindsay BUMS the Williamses.

I think her game matches up worse against players like Clijsters as she gets lots and lots back and be consistent rather whilst S and V do that but also like to be very aggressive which may or may not result in errors.

kwilliams
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:55 PM
Hoping for H2H 3-3, at the end of the week. :cool: :angel:

Sorry, it's actually 3-2 in Jankovic's favour! But I hope it's 3-3 at the end of the week too!!!

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Jelena leads 3-2 so you're hoping for 4-2, no?

:D

misael
Mar 5th, 2008, 08:56 PM
I dont think that there are any mental issues about it.

Serena moves faster than Davenport and hits more or less just as hard. Many of these wins came during Serenas peak period as well, when people were labelling her 'unbeatable' at her best.
Davenport has many qualities in her game that make her so tough, her accuracy, power, and serve. But at the time of many of these wins, Serena was a much tougher player than she is today, even if the game has advanced. Serena posseses the neccessary qualities to beat Davenport. And imo at her best, is slightly better, because of her speed and tenacity, two qualities that Lindsay is not known for.

Serenas excellent movement countered Davenports accuracy. Davenport would have to be painting lines continuously.
Serena hit juts as hard so no big advantage for one or the other in the power department. However Serena is more explosive in her power imo.
They both have increadable serves, Serena with extra points for her second serve.

Losing record 4-10 against Serena is nothing to be ashamed of though. Davenport might be able to get a few back if she stays on the tour a few more years.THANK YOU FOR GIVING AN INTELLIGENT AND THOUGHTFUL ANSWER

bwahahahahaha
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:04 PM
I'm sorry but Jelena's H2H vs. Serena is not impressive at all. She's never played a peak Serena. I know it's not an excuse but it just doesn't impress me. Don't hate, just my opinion. :angel:

Slumpsova
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:13 PM
I'm sorry but Jelena's H2H vs. Serena is not impressive at all. She's never played a peak Serena. I know it's not an excuse but it just doesn't impress me. Don't hate, just my opinion. :angel:
agreed. the fans are making a big deal out of Serena's lose to Jankovic in 2006(?) come on! Serena just came back playing during that period while Jankovic's form is over the moon :tape:

but what can i say? the Bammer Boomers are still talking about Sybille beats 2007 Serena until this week :o

tobe
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:15 PM
and neither is the Venus-Henin H2H as they only played once during Henin's time

Il Primo!
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Because everything Linds does, Reena does it better. Reminds me Seles/Venus lopsided H2H.

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:22 PM
I'm sorry but Jelena's H2H vs. Serena is not impressive at all. She's never played a peak Serena. I know it's not an excuse but it just doesn't impress me. Don't hate, just my opinion. :angel:

Well, that is an argument that might have some validity. We could also say that Rena has never faced a "peak" Jankovic. :angel:

Now can we quit this side-track waffling and return to the thread please.
Why is Davenport so miserable?

The Daviator
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Hoping for H2H 3-3, at the end of the week. :cool: :angel:

:haha: :o

Their match in Sydney (I think) when Lindsay led 6-1 5-1 and held mps only to lose 1-6 7-5 7-5 :weirdo: is what immediately put her on the back foot in their rivalry, that was one of their early matches, and Serena has dominated ever since, except in 2004, when Linds had a 5-0 record versus the sisters :cool:

kwilliams
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:32 PM
and neither is the Venus-Henin H2H as they only played once during Henin's time

Henin might not have been at her 2007 best when they met but she did win their very first meeting on clay when she was ranked 18th. All their subsequent meetings took place between 2001-2003 when they were both ranked inside the top 10 and then Henin notched another victory last summer. I really think Venus just has an edge over Henin. When they are both at their best I would lay odds on Venus. In their head to head it seems that all their matches have been on a relatively even/equalising playing field.

Jakeev
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:32 PM
I think many have been right in their answers about Linds' record against Serena. Williams was the first I think that knew exactly how to play Davenport and then Justine came along and did the same thing.

It's not surprising two of the fastest players on tour could not only move better than Linds but even outhit her times.

However, I also have to believe that mentally, Serena got into Linds' head. I can't remember the sources but I think Lindsay kinda admitted she went on court against her not liking her chances.

When you do that you are bound to lose matches. Still, Lindsay got four wins against Serena and regardless of how she did it, 10 loses don't seem to matter much anymore.

bwahahahahaha
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:38 PM
Well, that is an argument that might have some validity. We could also say that Rena has never faced a "peak" Jankovic. :angel:

Now can we quit this side-track waffling and return to the thread please.
Why is Davenport so miserable?

OK :angel:

I think the answer is not just better movement. Venus moves even better than Serena but Davenport used to own her. At one point Lindsay led 8-1 :o Serena has better technique and more importantly a better serve then Venus. I think the answer is SERVE. Justine for example. She was always very quick but when she got stronger and changed her serve she beat Lindsay seven times in a row. I think the key to beat Lindsay consistently is a very good serve. Sharapova is another example.

Tennisstar86
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:39 PM
because....once Serena figured her out, it became hard for Davenport to beat her... (Much like with Venus...) this difference is that Venus and Davenport meet so much more than Serena Davenport that once Venus wasnt playing as well (2004- 2005) lindsay got a few more wins in the head to head....whereas she never really played Serena...

If you looke, from 2004 onward Lindsay is 4-1 against Venus and 2-1 against Serena....

LindsayRulz
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:53 PM
Because everything Linds does, Reena does it better. Reminds me Seles/Venus lopsided H2H.

Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

Dave.
Mar 5th, 2008, 09:54 PM
this difference is that Venus and Davenport meet so much more than Serena Davenport that once Venus wasnt playing as well (2004- 2005) lindsay got a few more wins in the head to head....whereas she never really played Serena...

If you looke, from 2004 onward Lindsay is 4-1 against Venus and 2-1 against Serena....

The Lindsay vs Venus rivalry is neck and neck, there's nothing in it. Venus was 3-0 against Lindsay in 02-03 which was a bad time for Lindsay.

The Daviator
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:02 PM
Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

The W/O isn't counted :p If it was it would be 11-4 :o

Renalicious
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:05 PM
I think every player has at least one other player who they are just week against despite how brilliant they might otherwise be.

Henin 9 - 0 Jankovic
Venus 7 - 2 Henin

I'm sure there are many other examples.

Although in saying that Serena has a really impressive H2H record against a lot of great and good players. In the following list Sanchez Vicario and Jankovic are the only players with a winning head to head and Venus, Henin, Graf and Farina Elia are all tied with Serena. Her records against Davenport, Clijsters and Mauresmo are all quite impressive.

Serena 1-1 Graf
Serena 4-1 Seles
Serena 3-4 Sanchez Vicario
Serena 1-0 Novotna
Serena 2-1 Tauziat
Serena 5-0 Martinez
Serena 5-1 Pierce
Serena 10-7 Capriati
Serena 10-4 Davenport
Serena 7-6 Hingis
Serena 2-0 Kournikova
Serena 1-0 Ruano Pascual
Serena 1-0 Suarez
Serena 2-0 Raymond
Serena 9-2 Mauresmo
Serena 6-6 Henin
Serena 7-1 Clijsters
Serena 4-1 Zvonareva
Serena 4-2 Sharapova
Serena 3-1 Kuznetsova
Serena 6-1 Hantuchova
Serena 6-1 Petrova
Serena 5-0 Myskina
Serena 4-1 Dementieva
Serena 1-0 Ivanovic
Serena 2-0 Vaidisova
Serena 4-0 Peer
Serena 3-2 Jankovic
Serena 2-0 Golovin
Serena 6-2 Schnyder
Serena 2-0 Safarova
Serena 3-0 Sugiyama
Serena 3-1 Schiavone
Serena 1-1 Farina Elia
Serena 2-0 Srebotnik
Serena 2-0 Molik
Serena 1-0 Li
Serena 3-0 Safina
Serena 7-7 Venus

9-2 against Mauresmo :tape::lol::worship:

Anyway, I feel as though Lindsay is a good player but has no weapon that is better than Serena's. For example, Davenport's serve and ground strokes are great but not better than Serena's. Serena's movement and mentality is better too, and she had more variety and net and other things. It's not that mind baffling really...

bwahahahahaha
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:08 PM
Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

It's 10-4 without the W/O ;)

Thanx4nothin
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Serena is the one player that has troubled Lindsay the most during her career that Lindsay hasen't been able to impose her will as much. Serena is the one who really got to Lindsay. Even in the late 90's when Lindsay was at her best, Serena still got most of the wins.

It's not because Serena is necessarily better than Lindsay as a tennis player (IMO Lindsay has a better game), but I think the sheer athletiscm and willingess to fight got to Lindsay. Lindsay has been able to deal with the other strong wills in the game (Justine, Venus, Maria), but Serena had the strongest will. Some of their matches have been close though, it's not as if Lindsay was being thrashed all the time.

LOL I know it is your own opinion and Lindsay is fabulous but I can't imagine Lindsay would even say she has a BETTER Game than Serena Williams :lol:

Il Primo!
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:12 PM
Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

Yep my bad you're actually true!:) I should have said "Reena is better overall", that would make sense:p

Thanx4nothin
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

Lindsay has a cleaner strike not necessarily a batter one
She isn't anymore consistent than Serena on a day where they are both playing OK, they both have awful days
Serena's best strikes are better, harder and have EVEN more weight than Lindsay's
Serena has a better first serve
Serena has a better second serve
Serena has better movement
Serena has more mental fortitude
Serena has a better winning mentality
Lindsay has cleaner strikes
Lindsay more frequently gets into a better rhythmn
Serena was and is just generally a better player, but Lindsay is an all time great so I am surprised the H2H is not closer.:confused:

Dave.
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:17 PM
LOL I know it is your own opinion and Lindsay is fabulous but I can't imagine Lindsay would even say she has a BETTER Game than Serena Williams :lol:

hmm, I think Lindsay is a better ball striker and is more accurate. Her forehand is better than Serena's (yes Serena can hit some great ones but awful ones too). Backhands are pretty much even. Serve, well Serena's is more powerful, Lindsay's more accurate. Volleys are even. Serena's movement is better.

What I meant was that Lindsay has a better technique, her shots are more reliable than Serena's. For me, Serena has a good record over Lindsay more to do with her fighting spirit and willingness to hang in there rather than because she has better strokes.

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Venus in full-stride is certainly faster. But when it comes to movement: the small-steps, coordination, change-of-direction - Serena has no peers (only Henin perhaps) and she is quick. A facet of the game at the top level often overlooked and underrated imo. It reminds me when I watch Serena play Vaidisova. Nowhere near as gifted or consistent as Davenport: big serve, first strike - slow movement. The comparison in mobility when S Williams is down the other end in these type of match-ups is stark - there is always only going to be one winner. There could also be a case perhaps, of Rena having got into Lindsay's head.

serenafan08
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Serena is the fitter player of the two, hence she's won almost all the three-set matches that they've played. She's only lost one three-setter against Lindsay. Serena is tougher mentally, and she can hang in there and work through the bad patches during a match, whereas we've all seen how Lindsay can just go away when things start to go wrong.

LindsayRulz
Mar 5th, 2008, 10:28 PM
Yep my bad you're actually true!:) I should have said "Reena is better overall", that would make sense:p

I agree :)

Lindsay has a cleaner strike not necessarily a batter one
She isn't anymore consistent than Serena on a day where they are both playing OK, they both have awful days
Serena's best strikes are better, harder and have EVEN more weight than Lindsay's
Serena has a better first serve
Serena has a better second serve
Serena has better movement
Serena has more mental fortitude
Serena has a better winning mentality
Lindsay has cleaner strikes
Lindsay more frequently gets into a better rhythmn
Serena was and is just generally a better player, but Lindsay is an all time great so I am surprised the H2H is not closer.:confused:

I was just saying that in some departments, Lindsay is better. But yeah, overall Serena is a more complete player than Lindsay for sure.

henree
Mar 5th, 2008, 11:16 PM
Serena is the fitter player of the two, hence she's won almost all the three-set matches that they've played. She's only lost one three-setter against Lindsay. Serena is tougher mentally, and she can hang in there and work through the bad patches during a match, whereas we've all seen how Lindsay can just go away when things start to go wrong.
Yep mentally Serena >>>> Lindsey

franny
Mar 5th, 2008, 11:42 PM
Serena is the one player that has troubled Lindsay the most during her career that Lindsay hasen't been able to impose her will as much. Serena is the one who really got to Lindsay. Even in the late 90's when Lindsay was at her best, Serena still got most of the wins.

It's not because Serena is necessarily better than Lindsay as a tennis player (IMO Lindsay has a better game), but I think the sheer athletiscm and willingess to fight got to Lindsay. Lindsay has been able to deal with the other strong wills in the game (Justine, Venus, Maria), but Serena had the strongest will. Some of their matches have been close though, it's not as if Lindsay was being thrashed all the time.

Um..how has she dealt better with Henin and Maria? Since 02, before Henin found her game, Henin has won 7 straight matches against Lindsay. The Henin of 2002 and before didn't have the same strong will of the one post 2002. And I ain't even gonna talk about Maria. 1-5 is an even worse percentage than 4-10. And the fact that a lot of their matches went to three sets, and Lindsay still couldn't pull it out is a testament to the fact that she does struggle against players with strong will and big games who can match her. You need BOTH.

Nicolás89
Mar 5th, 2008, 11:52 PM
9-2 against Mauresmo :tape::lol::worship:

Anyway, I feel as though Lindsay is a good player but has no weapon that is better than Serena's. For example, Davenport's serve and ground strokes are great but not better than Serena's. Serena's movement and mentality is better too, and she had more variety and net and other things. It's not that mind baffling really...

Mauresmo has more weapons than Serena but has a miserable record against her too, as you just noticed.

Lindsay had the best ground strokes ever on tour, everybody believe that, players, commentators, fans, wtaworld posters, except you. :D

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 12:24 AM
Um..how has she dealt better with Henin and Maria? Since 02, before Henin found her game, Henin has won 7 straight matches against Lindsay. The Henin of 2002 and before didn't have the same strong will of the one post 2002. And I ain't even gonna talk about Maria. 1-5 is an even worse percentage than 4-10. And the fact that a lot of their matches went to three sets, and Lindsay still couldn't pull it out is a testament to the fact that she does struggle against players with strong will and big games who can match her. You need BOTH.

Winning matches is dealing with a player. Lindsay imposed her will very strongly against Maria before (IW 05) and as for Justine, 2 of those wins are retirements, and Lindsay wasen't at her best at start of 2004 and also in 2006 (where she lost to Justine) so you're argument doesn't work. Justine was playing better tennis in 2001/2002 than Lindsay was in 2006, plus she wasen't injured. What I was saying is that where Lindsay has found it hardest to impose her will as such against Serena. Serena has always been the most difficult for most players to get on top of.

BuTtErFrEnA
Mar 6th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Yep my bad you're actually true!:) I should have said "Reena is better overall", that would make sense:p

LOL LOL

starin
Mar 6th, 2008, 01:46 AM
If Davenport had played Serena more from 2004-present this H2H would def. be more even. Davenport plays Serena when she was up and coming and when she was playing her best tennis. There was nothing she could do about that then.

WIMBLY2004
Mar 6th, 2008, 03:24 AM
Winning matches is dealing with a player. Lindsay imposed her will very strongly against Maria before (IW 05)

You are contraditing yourself, how can you say she was dealing with Maria when she could only won one match out of 6 meetings? And she didn't imposed her will strongly against Maria before, she lost their first match in Wimbledon 04, again, she imposed her will strongly agaist Maria only once

supergrunt
Mar 6th, 2008, 03:57 AM
Lindsay is a better ball stricker and hit the ball with more accuracy and constancy than Serena.


And it's a little unfair to consider the H2H as 10-4 because it includes a W/O :angel:.

No it does not :angel: .

njnetswill
Mar 6th, 2008, 04:00 AM
Serena is the better mover.

SAEKeithSerena
Mar 6th, 2008, 04:03 AM
Serena is simply the better mover and better fighter.

faboozadoo15
Mar 6th, 2008, 04:10 AM
Serenas excellent movement countered Davenports accuracy. Davenport would have to be painting lines continuously.


Not true. In Lindsay's wins over Serena, she utilized her consistent heavy groundies up the middle of the court to push Serena back, get a lot of errors, and keep Serena from executing her game.

Lindsay has even admitted to this tactic.

Sir Stefwhit
Mar 6th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Some of my all time favorite Serena matches come from her rivalry with Lindsay. They've had some major battles through the years and if they were both on, there wasn't a lot between them- except that Serena was somehow able to will herself to win. Their H2H is like one of the matches that's 6-3,6-3 and looks pretty routine, but in reality the score doesn't show how truly competitive they were with one another.

Favorite Lindsay vs. Serena matches:

-1999 US Open SF Serena def. Davenport 6-4 1-6 6-4 1hr 52mins
-2000 L.A. Serena def. Davenport 4-6 6-4 7-6 (7-1) 2hrs 40mins
-2001 US Open QF Serena def. Davenport 6-3 6-7 (7-9), 7-5 2hrs 10mins

Serenidad.
Mar 6th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Mobility? The way Serena served. Lindsay's negative mentality.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:24 AM
That pretty much sums it all up.

yeah just about...except the slightly better than Davenport comment. :rolleyes:Serena is more than slightly better than Lindsay.:wavey:

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:46 AM
LD simply can't stay in points with them. To beat a Williams you either A) have to out run and backboard defend them, and that ain't happenin' for LD or B) have to be able to hit with power CONSISTENTLY throughout the course of a match AND be athletic enough to stay in the point and get that "first strike." LD just can't do that often enough. She is, however, crafty enough to discover weaknesses and exploit them. It was she who first championed and successfully exploited the whole "center the ball" strategy that worked sporadically. The problem there is the Sisters have to give you balls that will ALLOW you to exploit what ever weakness you might think exists- and they're (at their best) are not always that generous.

LindsayRulz
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:52 AM
LD simply can't stay in points with them. To beat a Williams you either A) have to out run and backboard defend them, and that ain't happenin' for LD or B) have to be able to hit with power CONSISTENTLY throughout the course of a match AND be athletic enough to stay in the point and get that "first strike." LD just can't do that often enough. She is, however, crafty enough to discover weaknesses and exploit them. It was she who first championed and successfully exploited the whole "center the ball" strategy that worked sporadically. The problem there is the Sisters have to give you balls that will ALLOW you to exploit what ever weakness you might think exists- and they're (at their best) are not always that generous.

It's a thread about Serena vs Lindsay not Williams vs Lindsay ;). And I think Lindsay was able to stay in points with Venus as she leads their H2H 15-14 :p.

Serenidad.
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:58 AM
Venus sucks. :)

Sir Stefwhit
Mar 6th, 2008, 08:15 AM
It's a thread about Serena vs Lindsay not Williams vs Lindsay ;). And I think Lindsay was able to stay in points with Venus as she leads their H2H 15-14 :p.
You're absolutely right and it's just further proof that tennis is an individual sport about match-ups.

Lindsay is a player that feels a lot more comfortable playing Venus and she's got a winning record over her. Whereas with Serena it a lopsided H2H. I think on the surface that confuses people. 'Why is it she can go toe to toe with Venus, but doesn't match-up well with Serena.' Just because you match up well against one sister, doesn't mean that'll hold true with the other- different players, with different games.

markhingis
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:25 AM
Serena's fast and furious!!! That explains everything.

*Jool*
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:29 AM
4-10 is not THAT miserable either ...
V.Melb told it all anyway ;)

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
yeah just about...except the slightly better than Davenport comment. :rolleyes:Serena is more than slightly better than Lindsay.:wavey:


Err...no, she isn't :wavey:

bwahahahahaha
Mar 6th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Err...no, she isn't :wavey:

Hi fanboy Matt. :) How are you? Still hating on Serena Williams? :o

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 01:44 PM
Hi fanboy Matt. :) How are you?

Hello.
I'm fine, thank you :)



Still hating on Serena Williams? :o


I don't hate Serena Williams. In fact, I like her and her game :wavey:

DA FOREHAND
Mar 6th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Hello.
I'm fine, thank you :)





I don't hate Serena Williams. In fact, I like her and her game :wavey:

And that game is better than Davenport's, and not just slightly. Me thinks you need to check their resumes.

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:02 PM
And that game is better than Davenport's, and not just slightly. Me thinks you need to check their resumes.


Then how come that Lindsay has spend so much more weeks as #1 player and how come that Lindsay has won so many more tournaments than Serena? :wavey:

Lulu.
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Then how come that Lindsay has spend so much more weeks as #1 player and how come that Lindsay has won so many more tournaments than Serena? :wavey:

Because she plays more? But that has nothing to do with their games.

VishaalMaria
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Then how come that Lindsay has spend so much more weeks as #1 player and how come that Lindsay has won so many more tournaments than Serena? :wavey:

Serena hardly plays, and you should know because your rotten ass somehow ends up in her withdrawal threads. And when Serena does play, she is the better player as evidenced by the fact that she has eight single competition slams, to Lindsays three, and the 10-4 head to head.

bwahahahahaha
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Then how come that Lindsay has spend so much more weeks as #1 player and how come that Lindsay has won so many more tournaments than Serena? :wavey:

:o

What about five more grand slams? :o

Il Primo!
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Then how come that Lindsay has spend so much more weeks as #1 player and how come that Lindsay has won so many more tournaments than Serena? :wavey:

What about the win/loss ratio?:wavey:

slamchamp
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:19 PM
I don't hate Serena Williams. In fact, I like her and her game :wavey: oh please

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Because she plays more? But that has nothing to do with their games.


Why does Lindsay play more?
Because Serena doesn't play a lot.

Why doesn't Serena play a lot?
Because she is often injured.

Why is Serena often injured?
One reason is because of the style of her game.

So actually it does have something to do with their games :wavey:

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:23 PM
:o

What about five more grand slams? :o


That's why I said that Serena's game is slightly better than Lindsay's at her best. (even though I like Lindsay a bit more than Serena)

I know the stats.

DA FOREHAND
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Why does Lindsay play more?
Because Serena doesn't play a lot.

Why doesn't Serena play a lot?
Because she is often injured.

Why is Serena often injured?
One reason is because of the style of her game.

So actually it does have something to do with their games :wavey:

I guess you also think Roddick's game is slightly less than Federer's

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:27 PM
I guess you also think Roddick's game is slightly less than Federer's


You're guessing wrong, honey.

bwahahahahaha
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:28 PM
That's why I said that Serena's game is slightly better than Lindsay's at her best. (even though I like Lindsay a bit more than Serena)

I know the stats.

Five more grand slam titles indicate a more-then-slight difference.

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Five more grand slam titles indicate a more-then-slight difference.


Slam titles aren't everything. For further explaination read my posts above in this thread. I won't explain everything again for you.

VishaalMaria
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Talk about a lynch mob......

DA FOREHAND
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:34 PM
Slam titles aren't everything. For further explaination read my posts above in this thread. I won't explain everything again for you.

You think LIndsay's still playing to pick up Memphis titles? I know she still loves the game but it's all about beating the best at the biggest events, and Serena has done that more than Lindsay.

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Serena hardly plays, and you should know because your rotten ass somehow ends up in her withdrawal threads.


I rarely post in Serena-withdrawal-threads. :wavey:

Il Primo!
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Slam titles aren't everything. For further explaination read my posts above in this thread. I won't explain everything again for you.

Not always but when you got one person who gets 8GS and annother who won 3..well, do the math

Lulu.
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Slam titles aren't everything. For further explaination read my posts above in this thread. I won't explain everything again for you.

Yes they are. I know Lindsay would love to have 5 of Serena's Slams and at the end of the day who is gonna be remembered as being greater and the better player? Lindsay with her 3 Slams or Serena with her 8 (and more to come) Grand Slams. There you go.

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:40 PM
:zzz:

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:53 PM
This thread was interesting to begin with but some people couldn't resist trying to turn it into a 'Serena is much better than Lindsay' thread. Serena has won more Grand Slams. Grand Slam titles may be the most important, but not the only factors that can be taken into consideration. If you look at her H2H, in 13 of their 14 matches Lindsay was ranked in the top 5 over the years they have played. Lindsay having better rankings than Serena may be because she has played more, but she has had her injuries aswell yet that hasen't stopped her from playing. It is Serena's fault she couldn't play enough to maintain a top ranking over many years, and that certainly makes her look bad compared to other all-time greats. Look at anything else. Titles? Year-End Rankings? Prize Money? Consistency? Overall, yes I would say Serena has had a more successful career, but only because of her amount of slam titles, and Lindsay puts Serena to shame in alot of other aspects of their careers. Serena has by no means had a much more successful career.

kwilliams
Mar 6th, 2008, 03:08 PM
This thread was interesting to begin with but some people couldn't resist trying to turn it into a 'Serena is much better than Lindsay' thread. Serena has won more Grand Slams. Grand Slam titles may be the most important, but not the only factors that can be taken into consideration. If you look at her H2H, in 13 of their 14 matches Lindsay was ranked in the top 5 over the years they have played. Lindsay having better rankings than Serena may be because she has played more, but she has had her injuries aswell yet that hasen't stopped her from playing. It is Serena's fault she couldn't play enough to maintain a top ranking over many years, and that certainly makes her look bad compared to other all-time greats. Look at anything else. Titles? Year-End Rankings? Prize Money? Consistency? Overall, yes I would say Serena has had a more successful career, but only because of her amount of slam titles, and Lindsay puts Serena to shame in alot of other aspects of their careers. Serena has by no means had a much more successful career.

This doesn't really support your argument. Lindsay was in the top five all those years but still lost to Serena whose ranking varied from 1 - 96 (in the matches she WON against Davenport) then that only goes to show Davenport's success and consistency didn't matter all that much when she played against Serena.

I'm not saying Serena is far and away the better player but to date she has certainly had an edge over Davenport.

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 03:23 PM
This doesn't really support your argument. Lindsay was in the top five all those years but still lost to Serena whose ranking varied from 1 - 96 (in the matches she WON against Davenport) then that only goes to show Davenport's success and consistency didn't matter all that much when she played against Serena.

I'm not saying Serena is far and away the better player but to date she has certainly had an edge over Davenport.

I used that just to illustrate how long Lindsay has patrolled the top of the rankings. I fully agree Serena has an edge over Lindsay in their matches, but that doesn't translate into Serena having had a much more successful career than Lindsay.

The Daviator
Mar 6th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Why are Serena and Lindsay fans fighting? :confused:

Destiny
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:15 PM
Serena must have loved to play Lindsay

And put her game face on :woohoo:

Serenidad.
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:34 PM
This thread was interesting to begin with but some people couldn't resist trying to turn it into a 'Serena is much better than Lindsay' thread. Serena has won more Grand Slams. Grand Slam titles may be the most important, but not the only factors that can be taken into consideration. If you look at her H2H, in 13 of their 14 matches Lindsay was ranked in the top 5 over the years they have played. Lindsay having better rankings than Serena may be because she has played more, but she has had her injuries aswell yet that hasen't stopped her from playing. It is Serena's fault she couldn't play enough to maintain a top ranking over many years, and that certainly makes her look bad compared to other all-time greats. Look at anything else. Titles? Year-End Rankings? Prize Money? Consistency? Overall, yes I would say Serena has had a more successful career, but only because of her amount of slam titles, and Lindsay puts Serena to shame in alot of other aspects of their careers. Serena has by no means had a much more successful career.

Serena has by no means had a more success career? :spit:

Who will go down as the greater player. There is no argument you can make to place Lindsay Davenport higher than Serena Williams in the tennis hierarchy. Serena won 3 slams in ONE year. Lindsay won 3 slams her whole career. Get out of here. Her MICKEY Mouse titles and prize money don't mean shit.

bwahahahahaha
Mar 6th, 2008, 05:59 PM
This thread was interesting to begin with but some people couldn't resist trying to turn it into a 'Serena is much better than Lindsay' thread. Serena has won more Grand Slams. Grand Slam titles may be the most important, but not the only factors that can be taken into consideration. If you look at her H2H, in 13 of their 14 matches Lindsay was ranked in the top 5 over the years they have played. Lindsay having better rankings than Serena may be because she has played more, but she has had her injuries aswell yet that hasen't stopped her from playing. It is Serena's fault she couldn't play enough to maintain a top ranking over many years, and that certainly makes her look bad compared to other all-time greats. Look at anything else. Titles? Year-End Rankings? Prize Money? Consistency? Overall, yes I would say Serena has had a more successful career, but only because of her amount of slam titles, and Lindsay puts Serena to shame in alot of other aspects of their careers. Serena has by no means had a much more successful career.

You can keep living in denial if it makes you happy :)

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Serena has by no means had a more success career? :spit:

Who will go down as the greater player. There is no argument you can make to place Lindsay Davenport higher than Serena Williams in the tennis hierarchy. Serena won 3 slams in ONE year. Lindsay won 3 slams her whole career. Get out of here. Her MICKEY Mouse titles and prize money don't mean shit.

OMG can you even read?? :o

Overall, yes I would say Serena has had a more successful career

I said she has had a more successful career, just not by as large a margin as some people are making out. Believe me, Lindsay has achieved huge amounts on tour that do mean something so get out of here thanks.

Dodoboy.
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Matt- 8 > 5:wavey:

I just think that Lindsay was quite unlucky with this H2H because most of those matches Serena was up for it!

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:03 PM
You can keep living in denial if it makes you happy :)

No I'm happy with the facts.

I've already said on a few occasions now that Serena has had a more successful career. I don't know why you have to keep pushing to make out Serena is sooo much better than Lindsay because that's not the case.

pav
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:08 PM
It is not easy to have a good HtoH against a Goddess:fiery:

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 6th, 2008, 06:19 PM
It's a thread about Serena vs Lindsay not Williams vs Lindsay ;). And I think Lindsay was able to stay in points with Venus as she leads their H2H 15-14 :p.

Yes, but that simply goes to my point. Venus tends to be more "generous" than Serena. However I do believe the same criteria/challenge for LD in beating Serena exists while playing Venus, just by lesser degrees. Venus doesn't take as good care of her serve as Serena, and LD takes advantage of that.

bandabou
Mar 6th, 2008, 08:33 PM
Just bad matchup..and the main difference: It's not often than Lindsay plays against a player that's a better serve.

OsloErik
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:27 PM
I think it has mostly to do with the 2nd serve. Serena's 2nd serve is very difficult to set up against, and she maintains control of the point. Davenport relies on holding serve consistently and breaking frequently. She can't do that against Serena (or Henin, or Sharapova, actually) while she can against Venus.

When Sharapova is on, her 2nd serve is tough to get a read on, and she doesn't give you a lot of them either. Henin is the same way; she hits a hard, if less accurate, 2nd serve. Look at Lindsay's record against those three players and you'll see the same trend. She started out with an edge (although not really in Sharapova's case, but nothing about their head to head is normal) and gradually lost it.

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:43 PM
Yes, but that simply goes to my point. Venus tends to be more "generous" than Serena. However I do believe the same criteria/challenge for LD in beating Serena exists while playing Venus, just by lesser degrees. Venus doesn't take as good care of her serve as Serena, and LD takes advantage of that.

I think that Venus just matches up better with Lindsay. They both are tall figures who love a flat hitting match. They both hit with the same pace and their matches are normally beautiful flat-hitting affairs. :drool:

Serena's power is more explosive and she doesn't match up well for Lindsay. Serena uses more injections of pace. With Venus, Lindsay can at least build a rhythm, but it's harder to do against Serena, who can just pummel one from nowhere.

Il Primo!
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:50 PM
I think that Venus just matches up better with Lindsay. They both are tall figures who love a flat hitting match. They both hit with the same pace and their matches are normally beautiful flat-hitting affairs. :drool:

Serena's power is more explosive and she doesn't match up well for Lindsay. Serena uses more injections of pace. With Venus, Lindsay can at least build a rhythm, but it's harder to do against Serena, who can just pummel one from nowhere.

There's a huge difference between Serena's and Venus's baseline game. While Venus only or almost only relies on power and flat groundies, Serena exploits Lindz's footwork with short CC BH/FH or short inside out BH/FH. Venus never does that.

Stamp Paid
Mar 6th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Serena normally read and returned Davenport's serve really well. See IW 1999 and Charleston 2003 for the clearest examples.

Serenidad.
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:08 PM
Serena normally read and returned Davenport's serve really well. See IW 1999 and Charleston 2003 for the clearest examples.

Who can't read Fatport's serve? Especially against a Williams Sister.

Forehand Forehand Forehand .......
.....
.........

Oooh, I think I'll hit a flat one to her backhand. :confused:

Maybe you mean those matches Serena forehand return was really really REALLY on, but you don't need to read Lindsay's serve.

LindsayRulz
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:18 PM
Who can't read Fatport's serve? Especially against a Williams Sister.

Forehand Forehand Forehand .......
.....
.........

Oooh, I think I'll hit a flat one to her backhand. :confused:

Maybe you mean those matches Serena forehand return was really really REALLY on, but you don't need to read Lindsay's serve.

Lindsay has one of the best services on tour. She probably serves something like 8-10 MPH slower than the Williams but she can serve about the same number of aces by matches, why? Because her serve is hard to read and well placed.

And it's not a smart strategy to play on you're oppenent weaker side? :scratch:

friendsita
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:21 PM
I'm sorry but Jelena's H2H vs. Serena is not impressive at all. She's never played a peak Serena. I know it's not an excuse but it just doesn't impress me. Don't hate, just my opinion. :angel:

:worship:

The Daviator
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Who can't read Fatport's serve? Especially against a Williams Sister.

Forehand Forehand Forehand .......
.....
.........

Oooh, I think I'll hit a flat one to her backhand. :confused:

Maybe you mean those matches Serena forehand return was really really REALLY on, but you don't need to read Lindsay's serve.

Maybe the players that she always beats :weirdo:

Dave.
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Who can't read Fatport's serve? Especially against a Williams Sister.


It's so pathetic when people do this! Lol just 2 months ago there were threads about Lindsay being thinner than Hantucova! With immature, childish and sad remarks like this, it's impossible to take your posts seriously.

Serenidad.
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=dav_6789;12655387]It's so pathetic when people do this! Lol just 2 months ago there were threads about Lindsay being thinner than Hantucova! With immature, childish and sad remarks like this, it's impossible to take your posts seriously.[/QUOTE

She still moves like a 18 Wheeler stuck in the mud. Thusly, Serena spanks her.

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:42 PM
montreaux, you are a sad hater. Please go away :bigwave:

slamchamp
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Montreax you really like to fight..damn!

LindsayRulz
Mar 6th, 2008, 11:47 PM
She still moves like a 18 Wheeler stuck in the mud. Thusly, Serena spanks her.



:weirdo:

dwynn10
Mar 7th, 2008, 02:15 AM
Serena is simply the better mover and better fighter.

Yeah, that about sums it up. The one thing that frustrates a Davenport fan like me more than anything is her apparent readiness to fold first against an opponent with a stronger will, like Serena, Venus, Henin, and Shriekapova. Will see if this year is more of an even field for Davenport when it comes to playing a now-subpar Serena and Venus.

bandabou
Mar 8th, 2008, 02:06 PM
just shows that Serena and Venus are different players.

tonybotz
Mar 9th, 2008, 04:57 AM
sorry to be so frank, but lindsay feared the girls because they were black and "ghetto", and Davs, being from upscale Orange County, innately feared both V and Serena. lots of girls fell prey to this racial stereotype because the majority of them have led segregated lives. The myth and folklore of the "inner-city black" psyched them out. Richard knew what he was doing.

Sir Stefwhit
Mar 9th, 2008, 06:40 AM
sorry to be so frank, but lindsay feared the girls because they were black and "ghetto", and Davs, being from upscale Orange County, innately feared both V and Serena. lots of girls fell prey to this racial stereotype because the majority of them have led segregated lives. The myth and folklore of the "inner-city black" psyched them out. Richard knew what he was doing.

Yeah, Lindsay was so frightened that she beat Venus 10 out of 11 times when they first played one another. :tape:

You can't lump Vee with Serena to make her record against Lindsay more impressive. As it's already been stated in this thread, Lindsay feels much more comfortable playing Venus than she does playing Serena. That's probably why she has a winning record over Venus and a losing one against Serena.

And for those of you quick to dismiss Lindsay in her matches with Serena I'd like to point out that Lindsay was one of the players that somehow would always bring the best out of Serena. When Serena has beaten her, it's was usually with Serena stepping up her game. At their respective bests it's obviously no contest (Serena of course), but day in and day out their rivalry is a lot closer than it appears on paper. They've had some classics through the years.

mboyle
Mar 9th, 2008, 06:46 AM
I dont think that there are any mental issues about it.

Serena moves faster than Davenport and hits more or less just as hard. Many of these wins came during Serenas peak period as well, when people were labelling her 'unbeatable' at her best.
Davenport has many qualities in her game that make her so tough, her accuracy, power, and serve. But at the time of many of these wins, Serena was a much tougher player than she is today, even if the game has advanced. Serena posseses the neccessary qualities to beat Davenport. And imo at her best, is slightly better, because of her speed and tenacity, two qualities that Lindsay is not known for.

Serenas excellent movement countered Davenports accuracy. Davenport would have to be painting lines continuously.
Serena hit juts as hard so no big advantage for one or the other in the power department. However Serena is more explosive in her power imo.
They both have increadable serves, Serena with extra points for her second serve.

Losing record 4-10 against Serena is nothing to be ashamed of though. Davenport might be able to get a few back if she stays on the tour a few more years.

Everything you said could apply to Venus.

Serena beat Lindsay in Sydney in 1998 right after Lindsay had beaten Venus. Rick Macci analyzed the differences and concluded:

Serena can hit hard, sharp angle shots. So could, say, Monica Seles, but few other power players can. Lindsay can usually get to the ball and hit an on the run would be winner down the line. Seles would not get to the ball or would throw up a put a way shot for Lindsay, but Serena would reach the ball and hit it back cross court--out of Lindsay's reach. Venus does not have those sharp angles, so Davenport is rarely thrown way out of position with Venus. She can control the court.

I don't know how to explain Sharapova's domination of Lindsay except to point out that all but one of Maria's victories have been close third set affairs--suggesting that Maria's huge mental advantage came into play.

bwahahahahaha
Mar 9th, 2008, 10:21 AM
sorry to be so frank, but lindsay feared the girls because they were black and "ghetto", and Davs, being from upscale Orange County, innately feared both V and Serena. lots of girls fell prey to this racial stereotype because the majority of them have led segregated lives. The myth and folklore of the "inner-city black" psyched them out. Richard knew what he was doing.

:weirdo::weirdo::weirdo:

OsloErik
Mar 9th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Everything you said could apply to Venus.

Serena beat Lindsay in Sydney in 1998 right after Lindsay had beaten Venus. Rick Macci analyzed the differences and concluded:

Serena can hit hard, sharp angle shots. So could, say, Monica Seles, but few other power players can. Lindsay can usually get to the ball and hit an on the run would be winner down the line. Seles would not get to the ball or would throw up a put a way shot for Lindsay, but Serena would reach the ball and hit it back cross court--out of Lindsay's reach. Venus does not have those sharp angles, so Davenport is rarely thrown way out of position with Venus. She can control the court.

I don't know how to explain Sharapova's domination of Lindsay except to point out that all but one of Maria's victories have been close third set affairs--suggesting that Maria's huge mental advantage came into play.

That's really what it comes down to. Most players nowadays are up and down players, and Lindsay hit hard enough and accurate enough that she can win almost any of those matches unless someone hits as hard, as accurate, and has a better day. Serena's a side and side player, and she was the fastest player on tour for a couple years, which combine to make her game Monica Seles on acid.

danieln1
Mar 9th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Lindsay handed one of the worst losses to Serena in that 2004 LA Final, unfortunately she wasn´t able to repeat that because she used to have a mental block against Serena. For her to beat Serena, Lindsay has to play the way she did in the 2004 summer, because Lindsay has the game to beat Serena, but she must forget her mental issues when playing Serena