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Gonzo Hates Me!
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:36 PM
You can take any given thread about Kim, Monica, Maria Sharapova for all I care--WHOEVER!! And it WILL turn into a thread about Venus & Serena. In fact, that is not even necessarily a bad thing. They have so much power. Their haters will turn any thread into trashing the sisters--SOMEHOW! LOL! But it's just hilarious to me because that is giving them more power and showing just how powerful they are.

Just a thought! LOL!

persond
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:45 PM
:D :D Mrs_Guga,

You're absolutely right! I too, find it soooo funny!!!:D :D

Beige
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:50 PM
Mrs Gee, I love it! :D The more Venus and Serena dominate, the more their success exposes a lot about their non-fans. The racists I don't give the time of day because it's a no-brainer. It's the non-fans, who claimed to be all liberal (read: accepting just as long as the black player didn't pose a serious challenge), that are having the toughest time coping with the reality of the 2002 tennis season and I revel in their "dissatisfaction". LOL For every title, it's yet another figurative puncture in their already tortured soul. :D

GO TEAM WILLIAMS! AS KEITH SWEAT (AND MARIAH, MORE RECENTLY) SANG:

"MAKE IT LAST FOREVAH"!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Gonzo Hates Me!
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Beige
For every title, it's yet another figurative puncture in their already tortured soul. :D
[/I]

LOL!

Omigod, Keith Sweat... I forgot he existed-- lol

Beige
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Mrs_Guga

LOL!
Omigod, Keith Sweat... I forgot he existed-- lol

You're too young to remember him. Oh wait...you probably know "Twisted" his crossover hit, hehe.

Rocketta
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:57 PM
Beige---The fact that you mentionend Keith Sweat is a riot! I concurr completely! :wavey:

Playa
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:20 PM
I couldn't agree more !!
every thread i've been reading these last week,Venus and Serena had to be brought in by HATERS .
every single day !! there must be a thread mentioning,comparing ,denigrating and finally BASHING the Williams by Haters.

ktwtennis
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:25 PM
Yes, it turns into a thread about Venus or Serena not just because of the haters, but more of the lovers!!! They have to bring their pity stories in every thread. And this trend of Venus/Serena being in every thread doesn't give Venus or Serena more power because whether you like it or not, they don't even know what's going on in this forum!

Jericho
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Yes, it turns into a thread about Venus or Serena not just because of the haters, but more of the lovers!!! They have to bring their pity stories in every thread. And this trend of Venus/Serena being in every thread doesn't give Venus or Serena more power because whether you like it or not, they don't even know what's going on in this forum!

You just proved whoever started this thread was right...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ktwtennis
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:40 PM
oliver--That's the second time you've been stupid and COMPLETELY misinterpreted my reply. I DID NOT prove the starter of the thread right, but wrong b/c the starter said it was b/c of the HATERS that Venus/Serena are brought into threads and I said it was b/c of the LOVERS(or fans) of Venus/Serena that they are brought into threads!! Thank you jp for the support.

Jericho
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
oliver--That's the second time you've been stupid and COMPLETELY misinterpreted my reply. I DID NOT prove the starter of the thread right, but wrong b/c the starter said it was b/c of the HATERS that Venus/Serena are brought into threads and I said it was b/c of the LOVERS(or fans) of Venus/Serena that they are brought into threads!! Thank you jp for the support.

yeah just keep on telling yourself that...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ktwtennis
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:46 PM
Yeah, that made sense...

Jericho
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
Yeah, that made sense...

made more sense than your "i have to say something about a pro williams thread" reply...

irma
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:51 PM
mrs_guga you are right, they took over Steffi and Monica's place, when I came on the board 2,5 years ago(well the other board) it always ended in a fight about them:)

ktwtennis
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:54 PM
My reply made plenty of sense...You just can't stand that I put you in your place! Your last reply also made no sense...I think you should shut up now before you make a fool of yourself...I can say whatever I want to say about a pro-williams thread...

Dawn Marie
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:55 PM
Right on MRS GUGA.. and did I hear something about Keith Sweat?

OMG love his very first cassette it's awsome! I still jam that one. I LOVE the cut "Make it last Forever", "I want her" and Ooh I forgot, something about "Deep is your Love" or something. I got the beat but not the title. Help Beige.:)

Anyway, MRS GUGA your on point and I agree with you and find it hilarious as hell.:)

Jericho
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by ktwtennis
My reply made plenty of sense...You just can't stand that I put you in your place! Your last reply also made no sense...I think you should shut up now before you make a fool of yourself...I can say whatever I want to say about a pro-williams thread...

yup, you're so right about us lovers bringing up the williams in any post, why dont you tell me what "williams lover" brings up the williams in this thread...http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32185

ooohh nooo...was that you...oopps... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

who should shut up now???:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

P.S - Thanks for putting ME in my place!!!!

ktwtennis
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:21 PM
I meant the MAJORITY of the threads are brought to a Williams topic by the lovers...That's one out of my 480+ posts...

smygelfh
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:23 PM
Let's remember three things here.

1. Venus & Serena is dominating now. Like it or not, it's true. They will inevitable be something to measure thing against, so they will get drawn into many discussions.

2. It's not only the 'haters' who draw the sisters into discussions, far from, see the point above.

3. According to some fans, you worship or hate. There is no between. Of course there'll be plenty of 'hate' comments about the sisters when you can't discuss them objectively without being a 'hater'.

So, please, face the facts. The dominating players will dominate the threads too, for good or bad. Fighting a real 'hater' is useless. Labeling every non-worshipper 'hater' will not make this forum better. Give objective answers to objective statements, ignore the rest or you will only lure more wannabe 'haters' into the discussions.

servenrichie
Aug 1st, 2002, 08:12 AM
quote:
---------------------------------------------
originally posted by smygelfh:

3. According to some fans, you worship or hate. There is no between. Of course there'll be plenty of 'hate' comments about the sisters when you can't discuss them objectively without being a 'hater'.
-----------------------------------------------------

I have to disagree with you here smygelfh. There are quite a lot of objective posters on this board, who are not exactly Williams fans, but you'd hardly see them bashing them unneccessarily or making inflaming remarks, because they'd criticise, but give credit where it is due. Then you have others, who look for the slightest chance to insult and belittle them wherever and whenever they can. I will go as far as mentioning names: Objective posters:Josh, disposable, Vivala, Mark35, Snuffkin, Josh, Griffin, there are still more.
Then watch out these posters for some days and make your opinion:
O000O alias RocksteadyModernstrokes, Treufreund, Mslively, Vanity, Queenlindsay to mention but a few and tell me if your above quote still holds.

It seems to me that the general emergency exit here for some people is saying that Williams fans label everybody who is not a fan a hater. That is bullshit. I know a lot of Williams fans who discuss intelligently with other posters who are not Williams fans.
For christssake, you can dislike a player without making an ass of yourself or is that too much to ask for?

smygelfh
Aug 1st, 2002, 08:18 AM
That's why I said 'some'. There's plenty of objective posters here, no doubt about it, and I agree that it's sad that so many people can't discuss objectively. However, it won't help if those who read the really objective opinions threat them as bashings no matter what they are.

Julie
Aug 1st, 2002, 08:35 AM
Servenrichie you are right :) but what i will say in defense of smygelfh is he did say "according to SOME fans". He didnt make it about all of the williams fan base, because as you rightly say, it is just a small number of this large group of fans which seem to cause some problems. You are also right when oyu say that its not just isolated to that small number of williams fans, because posters from other fan bases do just as much damage.

For christssake, you can dislike a player without making an ass of yourself or is that too much to ask for?

I wish it wasnt, but again for some, it apparently is :sad:

Julie
Aug 1st, 2002, 08:37 AM
smygelfh, you're too quick for me ;) :p

Williams Rulez
Aug 1st, 2002, 08:47 AM
I agree with Julie and serverichie... I wish we had more objective posters... :)

servenrichie
Aug 1st, 2002, 09:06 AM
Excuse me smygelfh, i know you said some :) , but i have read countless times on this board how Williams Fans are hypersensitive, and how they label everybody who does not worship Venus and Serena a hater and a racist. I say hogwash. Some people really og out of their way to say things that for any human being who thinks logically, there is no other way else to interprete what was was said.

Echoing you Julie and Williams Rulez, i wish there are more objective posters. It would make this board a treasure.

Beige
Aug 1st, 2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Right on MRS GUGA.. and did I hear something about Keith Sweat?

OMG love his very first cassette it's awsome! I still jam that one. I LOVE the cut "Make it last Forever", "I want her" and Ooh I forgot, something about "Deep is your Love" or something. I got the beat but not the title. Help Beige.:)

Anyway, MRS GUGA your on point and I agree with you and find it hilarious as hell.:)

Hey DM! :wavey: That would be "How Deep Is Your Love", the Teddy Riley penned tune, not to be confused with the Brothers Gibb's hit song. "I Want Her" is an 80's R&B classic! Love it! Reminds me of when I first moved to NYC in '88. Later Keith Sweat faves were "Merry Go Round", "Keep It Comin" and "Twisted"with Kut Klose.

Volcana
Aug 1st, 2002, 11:44 AM
Why is it sad?

In baseball, every conversation about hitting sooner or later brings the names Ichiro and Bonds into it. Every basketball discussion sooner or later mentions SHaq, at least in passing. Can you have a conversation about high level rugby without mentioning the All-Blacks? Golf/Tiger Woods? F1/Michael Schumacher? Cycling/Lance Armstrong?

That's professional sports.

Julie
Aug 1st, 2002, 12:11 PM
Volcana, i agree - oyu think of womens tennis and whether oyu like them or not you think of venus and serena. If you did a poll of the general population and asked them to name an active female tennis player - id say venus or serena would be high up there, maybe only faultering in popularity to Anna K. And quite frankly hats off to them, they deserve to be there, with what they've achieved :) So its natural for them to be brought into the topic of conversation as you rightly say.

But my interpretation of Mrs Guga's post was that, whether you are for or against the williams, most of the threads started for other players, can lead to comments about the sisters, that sometimes trigger arguments/debates/insults etc (depending on the poster) I agree that if that could be done by raising valid points and conducting things in an adult like manner then it wouldnt be sad at all (and it does happen sometimes :) ). But the fact is that on certain occasions and with certain posters it doesnt, insults to players and posters abound, and in the way i interpreted this thread, that for me is what makes it sad.

Pureracket
Aug 1st, 2002, 12:35 PM
Ok, who keeps talking about, my boy, Keith Sweat?

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 12:46 PM
Here's an article talking about tennis players popularity!

Venus' star shines brightest among fans
Section: Sports, Pg. 01c

Venus Wiliams topped her sister Serena in a survey asking women's tennis fans age 12 and up to name their favoirte player. The top five:

Venus Williams23.6%

Serena Williams11.9%

Jennifer Capriati10.4%

Anna Kournikova 6.5%

Martina Hingis 4.9%

(c) USA TODAY, 2002


Keith Sweat is my boy! "How deep is your love" is my favorite! :wavey:

Ntosake
Aug 1st, 2002, 02:52 PM
I see what you are talking about Mrs Guga, and I agree!

No matter what the discussion was supposedly about, someone will bring in the Sisters, lol!!!

There is an active thread about two ATP players, Roddick and Lappenti and the mess their match created, and guess what---YEP, you got it!...several ppl brought the Williams into it!

Go figure. LOL. Too funny, and so so sad.

sherry
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:11 PM
servenrichie,
Your post was on-point. I don't post often but I come here pretty regularly and read what has been posted --- as I did the sanex site. I was not here for a while because after the sanex site went down; I did not find this site until a few months ago. But some of the folk you mentioned, I remember from the sanex site too. And you were dead-on about those who can be objective and those who seem hell-bent on negativity concerning V & S. Good job.;)

o0O0o
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:34 PM
Rocketta, that poll means nothing.

It asked WOMEN to name their FAVORITE. If the poll was done including men, the Kournikova Factor of it would be way up. And remember, everyone knows Anna but I know of ZERO women that actually like her.

Anyway, you can blame this on "haters" (what a stupid word), but once you are branded a hater, it doesn't matter what you say, the Williams Wolf Pack will pounce on you for it. Like when I said there was a Venus fan bashing someone in a chat, the Williams Wolf Pack jumped on me saying I made it up and I'm biased etc. etc.

It's just that with Hingis out, Venus and Serena have the most fans on these boards right now. That also means a large diversity of fans, and that means a lot of them are going to be very nice, but a lot of them are going to be rude and defensive. And if you don't praise the sisters, the defensive, outspoken Williams fans yell at you. They ruin the reputation of the whole fan base.

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
Rocketta, that poll means nothing.

It asked WOMEN to name their FAVORITE. If the poll was done including men, the Kournikova Factor of it would be way up. And remember, everyone knows Anna but I know of ZERO women that actually like her.


Typical if a poll doesn't reflect what you think it is useless! :rolleyes:

The funny thing is that you stuggle with Reading comprehension. It doesn't say it is a poll of women who like women's tennis! It is a poll about women's tennis, read it again it reflects boys and girls!

Infiniti2001
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:48 PM
I'm in agreement with with you Mrs. Guga... What I find especially pathetic, is the need for "certain" posters to make up names to spew their venom... They fail to realize that they will be picked in a line up at the drop of a hat... :rolleyes:

o0O0o
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:50 PM
Lacking 'Reading comprehension' (by the way, when correcting someone's reading/writing don't make grammar mistakes of your own) is not the case, I just didn't see the 's. Honest mistake.

Pureracket
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:52 PM
OooOooo,
Referring to us as "wolfpack" does not help your cause any. I went to grad school to the University of North Carolina, and I resent being referred to anything with a wolf attached to it. :(

safinfan
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:57 PM
The Williams are great players and all but I think the reason everyone dislikes them is because they come off as dishonest and arrogant.

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by clocker
OooOooo,
Referring to us as "wolfpack" does not help your cause any. I went to grad school to the University of North Carolina, and I resent being referred to anything with a wolf attached to it. :(

omg, Clocker tell me your not a Tarheel?? Yuck!! ;) I'm of course a true Wolfpacker!!! NCSTATE Class of 93' :p

I guess its ok, if you are my sister is one too and I like her! :p

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by o0O0o
Lacking 'Reading comprehension' (by the way, when correcting someone's reading/writing don't make grammar mistakes of your own) is not the case, I just didn't see the 's. Honest mistake.

Maybe if you take time to read things, you wouldn't make those mistakes made in haste? I didn't know you couldn't make grammer mistakes when pointing out that someone didn't comprehend what they read because their post was DEAD wrong! Thanks for letting me know that. :wavey:

Pureracket
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:03 PM
Rocketta,
I received a Master's Degree from there in '96. I had a ball. I had wanted to go to Chapel Hill for undergrad, but Univ. of Alabama in Tuscaloosa gave more of an incentive. LOL!!!!!

You went to NCState?!?!?!? All this time I'm thinking you're cool. Now I find out that you are one of those jaded wolves. LOL!!!!!

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by clocker
Rocketta,
I received a Master's Degree from there in '96. I had a ball. I had wanted to go to Chapel Hill for undergrad, but Univ. of Alabama in Tuscaloosa gave more of an incentive. LOL!!!!!

You went to NCState?!?!?!? All this time I'm thinking you're cool. Now I find out that you are one of those jaded wolves. LOL!!!!!

LOL, jaded?? That's funny! I thought you were cool! Now I found out you're one of those stuck up Tarheels! :p Yeah I got my BA from there! Wolfpacker with all my heart and soul!

I really didn't care for either school when I was in High School. It was UVA all the way! However, my mother informed me that going to school out of state was not an option. :( I didn't want to go to Chapel Hill because my sister was there already. I was tired of being the little sister all the time. So I went to State and fell in Love! :)

Pureracket
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:14 PM
Rocketta,
That's a nice story. Well, if you fell in love, I can forgive you. :) Maybe the "Da' Pack" ain't all that bad. . . . nah. LOL!!!!!

Did you pledge?

irma
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:17 PM
still the days when all threads ended in steffi/monica fights where much better, we even ruined the nav thread on cnn that time:)

Nimi
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
Here's an article talking about tennis players popularity!

Venus' star shines brightest among fans
Section: Sports, Pg. 01c

Venus Wiliams topped her sister Serena in a survey asking women's tennis fans age 12 and up to name their favoirte player. The top five:

Venus Williams23.6%

Serena Williams11.9%

Jennifer Capriati10.4%

Anna Kournikova 6.5%

Martina Hingis 4.9%

(c) USA TODAY, 2002


Keith Sweat is my boy! "How deep is your love" is my favorite! :wavey:

On a poll on this board Jenn came 1st, Venus was like 4th, & Serena was not top 10

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by clocker
Rocketta,
That's a nice story. Well, if you fell in love, I can forgive you. :) Maybe the "Da' Pack" ain't all that bad. . . . nah. LOL!!!!!

Did you pledge?

Nah, I'm definitely not a pledging kinda girl! My sister is an AKA does that tell how different we are? LOL!!

Hey you were at UNC I had a couple of classmates there, I'll PM you there names and see if you know them?

ktwtennis
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:22 PM
That's a poll talking about ppl. who know ABOUT them, not ppl. who like them as ppl. and players...

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Niminator


On a poll on this board Jenn came 1st, Venus was like 4th, & Serena was not top 10

That only proves that if their name comes up a lot on this board its their detractors not their fans doing it. Since people on this board prefer others, right?

irma
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:25 PM
polls are the least thing I take serious and I really don't why other people do? :confused:
and yeah I also said this when my fav won some poll a while ago!

Pureracket
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:26 PM
I may have known your sister. I'm an ALPHA!!!!!

(You should re-consider your decision. LOL!!!!!)

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by clocker
I may have known your sister. I'm an ALPHA!!!!!

(You should re-consider your decision. LOL!!!!!)

Which decision? Never to say I went to UNC-CH or not to pledge? ;)

My sister graduated in 89' with a BA.

Beige
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by safinfan
The Williams are great players and all but I think the reason everyone dislikes them is because they come off as dishonest and arrogant.

I know what you mean, safinfan. I mean, c'mon how dare these Black girls behave so uncharacteristically??!! Don't they know their place. The audacity!!! :fiery:

http://www.markscollection.com/gwtw/images/holdon.jpg

:cool:

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:46 PM
Beige---Hehehe, too funny!!!

irma
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:48 PM
dishonest? Venus and Serena? LMAO:D

Infiniti2001
Aug 1st, 2002, 05:06 PM
You go on with your bad self Mr Beige hehehehehehe!!!:wavey: Some folk so want to put Vee and her sister in their collective places grrrrrrrr. The distance of their perception from reality never hit those people. :fiery:

Beige
Aug 1st, 2002, 05:15 PM
Hehe, Infiniti and Rocketta. ;)

It's language like safinfan's that I was referring to. The proverbial Freudian slips are popping up everywhere...including on this board. LMAO. They're finding it harder and harder to conceal their displeasure-- and that's putting it mildly!!!

http://www.millan.net/anims/giffar/giffar2/evilputer1.gif

safinfan
Aug 1st, 2002, 05:16 PM
Sorry Beige I was just stating my opinion. Nothing I said was intended to be racist but what you posted certainly was.

safinfan
Aug 1st, 2002, 05:25 PM
Thank you jp I totally agree with you.

o0O0o
Aug 1st, 2002, 06:02 PM
Here goes the "it's 'cause their black" excuse again. Hasn't that crutch been leaned on one too many times? If anything the Williams sisters are treated with, as Navritalova said, 'kid's gloves' because they're black.

Oh, and "grammer"? Cute.

Ntosake
Aug 1st, 2002, 06:40 PM
Hmmm...some ppl say how peaceful it is over in the atp world so here's a question for objective thinkers and non-bashers:

If a confident, brash James Blake had a brother and they together were beating everybody's favorite, and became 1 and 2 in the world....do you think some ppl would still be having as much fun there?

Some might. But some would act...well, see WTA.

irma
Aug 1st, 2002, 06:42 PM
well he has a brother and he plays tennis too if I am right , they are only not number 1 and 2 yet:)
Go Blake brothers :bounce:

griffin
Aug 1st, 2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by jp


And why when it concerns Venus and Serena people must be so politically correct? No one is afraid to "hate" Roddick for example, to say that he fakes injury, etc ; and most of his fans don't even care. The same for Hewitt and others.



Oh please, there are plenty of people who have no problem dumping all over Venus and Serena for petty and often imagined offenses (which is not to say all the criticism is petty or imagined). And if you think ATP players' partisans can't get vocal defending or maligning the boys, you've missed a lot of threads on this board - including one going on right now.

Ntosake
Aug 1st, 2002, 06:50 PM
But if they were 1 and 2, do you think the dynamics would mess up the peace? (grin)

Ntosake
Aug 1st, 2002, 07:03 PM
Well, actually, there may not be as much peace over there, either;) maybe more camaraderie? I dunno.

Rocketta
Aug 1st, 2002, 07:12 PM
I think some people doth protest too much! ;) Makes you kind of wonder?

griffin
Aug 1st, 2002, 07:19 PM
jp, saying "no one is afraid to "hate" " ATP players suffests that people are afraid to "hate" the sisters. That simply isn't true, imo.

But you're right - people on all sides should not be over-sensitive. I tend to think the problem is less how posters feel about the players, however, than how we feel about each other: that some people seem to react as much to who's posting as to WHAT they're posting.

As for the atpworld, I'm going to have to take your word for it, as I don't spend time there and don't plan to. I should point out, however, that when this board first got up and running, people said the same thing about wtaworld - esp. in relation to the Sanex board: that it was a kinder, calmer place. The atpworld may well change as it gets larger.

Dawn Marie
Aug 1st, 2002, 09:15 PM
Beige trhat picture you posted in response to that lame reply is so spot on. Beige keep it up!!:)

Anyway, I thought that Keith Sweat song was How deep is your Love, but then kept thinking I was wrong because I was thinking I was remebering the Bee Gee's instead. A classic, I too like Twisted.

"you know you got me twisted over you", the video was sweet too.

Anyway, I think people hold Venus and Serena to a higher standard because they are black. It's a fact and it is too be understandable (even though some people are so damn ignorant and I feel like pimp smacking them for their ignorancy) but tennis is so behind the times, that it is too be expected.

Go Venus and Serena keep beating up on players because I know it makes people seethe with anger. And I like seeing people who don't like people for the color of their skin seethe with anger.:)

Williams Rulez
Aug 2nd, 2002, 07:18 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Niminator


On a poll on this board Jenn came 1st, Venus was like 4th, & Serena was not top 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That only proves that if their name comes up a lot on this board its their detractors not their fans doing it. Since people on this board prefer others, right?

I must really agree with this... :)

Beige
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by safinfan
Sorry Beige I was just stating my opinion. Nothing I said was intended to be racist but what you posted certainly was.

I didn't say YOUR comments were racist. I was just poking fun at the following assessment--

Originally posted by safinfan
The Williams are great players and all but I think the reason everyone dislikes them is because they come off as dishonest and arrogant.

-- especially the arrogant part. White tennis fans had become accustomed to the low key presence of Zina, Lori and Chanda, all respected players who occasionally beat the likes of arrogant stars like Martina N, Chrissie, Steffi and Monica BUT were never a serious threat. Then in the mid 90's a pair of black sisters with raw talent join the tour. In an effort to alleviate the duress of being "different" on the tour, their quirky dad mouths off, takes focus away (and heat) off his kids and the tour has never been quite the same. Safinfan, it's interesting that Steffi and Monica, for example, were both arrogant in their own ways but tennis fans didn't have the same disdain for them (if they had any at all) as they do for the Williamses. A double standard if there ever was one!!

jp, if you're NOT one of THOSE non-fans that I spoke of-- the ones who are having a trying time dealing with their prejudice that they were too arrogant (and delusional) to think they would ever have-- then you, jp, have nothing to worry about.

It does NOT have to revolve around race...BUT where you don't impress me is that you appear to be the type that is more quick to yell "race card" to the Williams fans THAN to acknowledge that many white tennis fans hate Venus and Serena because they're black. If you prove to me that you can do BOTH, then you have my respect.

Dawn Marie, keeping it real as usual. :D The "funny" thing is that with so much available these days on the internet if I really wanted to I could dig up several examples OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS of articles that criticized the Williamses in a manner they wouldn't other players.

For all Williams sisters fans: What really cracks me in the past 2 years is that the best the MEDIA and NON-FANS can do to "hate" on our girls is the LAME dual effort of:

1. They don't play enough :rolleyes:

2. They're always injured. :rolleyes:

ROTFLMAO! :D

"MAKE IT LAST FOREVAHHHHH..."

http://www.millan.net/anims/giffar/gomed.gif

:cool: Go Team Williams! :cool:

Raisin
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:17 PM
Spit it out Beige:wavey:

Make it last forever, I love keith Sweat.

Pinkie
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:54 PM
Venus and Serena are simply the best players on the tour. Nobody seems to come even close to beating them. But that doesn't mean you can't criticize them. If only Serena could stop calling herself a great champion (hence the arrogance claims). If only she could stop coming up with lame excuses every time she loses. If only Venus would stop pulling out of tournaments Serena really wants to win. If only they could play a match against each other that was remotely interesting to watch. They are not the only players who display a lack of intelligence and personality (think Capriati), but to label any kind of criticism racist is really dumb. Just like Monica and Steffi in their time, these girls were raised to be tennis champions and now find themselves struggling to create a personality for themselves as individuals.

Beige
Aug 2nd, 2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Pinkie
Venus and Serena are simply the best players on the tour. Nobody seems to come even close to beating them. But that doesn't mean you can't criticize them. If only Serena could stop calling herself a great champion (hence the arrogance claims). If only she could stop coming up with lame excuses every time she loses. If only Venus would stop pulling out of tournaments Serena really wants to win. If only they could play a match against each other that was remotely interesting to watch. They are not the only players who display a lack of intelligence and personality (think Capriati), but to label any kind of criticism racist is really dumb. Just like Monica and Steffi in their time, these girls were raised to be tennis champions and now find themselves struggling to create a personality for themselves as individuals.

Pinkie, we, Williams fans, know that NOT every criticism is racist; you telling us that is NOT revolutionary.

What's occurring on this thread, for me, is that I'm calling out the non-fans who delude themselves into thinking that V&S' race is a non-factor in their dislike for the Williamses. Am I able to distinguish criticisms of Venus? Yes. Am I able to decipher when an opinion is based, albeit subliminally, on race? Yes. The subliminal part is the trickiest because many non-fans aren't even aware of it.

Pinkie, we're on opposing sides and it's important for BOTH our voices to be heard. In my mind, the reality is that the tennis world (media and many fans) DO have a problem with 2 black girls dominating the WTA! No one can convince me otherwise because the truth is clear. Crystal clear.

tennischick
Aug 2nd, 2002, 01:27 PM
bec i prefer men's tennis, i hope that atpworld never becomes affected by the kind of acrimony that often characterises this board. i have long been a fan of James Blake and talked about him long before others even heard about him and knew of his potential. and if he and his frequently injured brother were to dominate the atptour, i for one would be thrilled. and i'd like to think that most atp fans would be as well. but the handful that would be against them bec of their race or whatever i would have no use for anyway. the "ignore" button on that board would serve the same purpose it does for me on this one...

o0O0o
Aug 2nd, 2002, 01:48 PM
Wow Beige, I'd love to know how you tapped into the psyche of millions of white tennis fans, perhaps one day you can lend me your crystal ball.

Beige
Aug 2nd, 2002, 03:10 PM
I don't need to, o000o. Your signature is all the proof that I need. The Williamses' domination prompted YOU to do that. See how much power they have over YOU?! :D Good luck on your hunt for more LAME swipes at the #1 and #2 player in the world! :wavey:

Pureracket
Aug 2nd, 2002, 04:13 PM
jP,oooOoo,Pinkie, etc,
You all ever think that, instead of cringing in fear and repulsion whenever the dreaded "r" word comes up that maybe there is a valid explanation for the discussion and suspicion of it? Just like "some" (it's weird how we can use the word "some" but really mean "all") Williams fans often brings up race, it seems like "some" fans have a guilt complex and can never discuss it. Would it happen to be you?

deftman
Aug 2nd, 2002, 05:32 PM
Though it's very easy to blame things on racism ,the main reason for the Williams slandering is :-

1) Coz they always beat their fave players .Ofcorse :p

2)Richard Williams

3) They have muscles which is considered "un-feminine" ,and their general appearance , (yes maybe their skin in included ,as it doesnt really flatter their features) including their clothes which are considered pretty odd,and in general ,their rarther odd look ( among blacks only the Naomi Campbell black look is accepted in general ;) ,and among whites too ,the muscular look doesnt seem to be accpeted)

4) Past confusion .Comments made by Venus in 1998 about her predicting ,being the next No.1,many people concieve her and Serena to be arrogant.

I dont think anyone hates them because of their "race" as such.Very very few maybe.
However the "color of the skin" ,may play a role. You get what I mean? That actual "community" feeling exists only among blacks.White people usually dont consider either "white" or "black" players as their own.So "race" doesnt really matter to whites.Maybe if you go to the average white guy ,he'd be puzzled if you asked him about " support for the fellow race" while that wouldnt be the case with blacks. So it's more about their physical appearance (this is where the color of the skin comes into mention) ,and their dominance ,continually beating their fave players ,that has drawn some negative reaction IMO.

mentos
Aug 3rd, 2002, 12:24 AM
3) They have muscles which is considered "un-feminine" ,and their general appearance , (yes maybe their skin in included ,as it doesnt really flatter their features) including their clothes which are considered pretty odd,and in general ,their rarther odd look ( among blacks only the Naomi Campbell black look is accepted in general ,and among whites too ,the muscular look doesnt seem to be accpeted)

Spare us the psychobabble. You're not speaking from experience, it's evident by the ignorance of your post.

Read!

Crazy Canuck
Aug 3rd, 2002, 12:25 AM
More than half the time it turns into Venus and Serena, it is because one of their so called fans brought it up.

Williams Rulez
Aug 3rd, 2002, 02:21 AM
And the other times, who brings them up? :p

Pureracket
Aug 3rd, 2002, 02:57 AM
I guess their anti-fans bring it up. :) Venus and Serena fans bringing up the topic of Venus and Serena. Go figure. LOL!!!!!

the cat
Aug 3rd, 2002, 05:47 PM
I don't think any threads I've created that excluded the Williams sisters, have turned into Williams bashing. I think you are exxagerating a little, Mrs_Guga. But the Williams sisters are discussed alot because they are great and they dominate!

And Dawn, "How Deep Is Your Love" is the Beee Gee's classic! ;)

tennischick makes some great points about the acrimony here and there.

Gonzo Hates Me!
Aug 3rd, 2002, 05:50 PM
Mentos, who the hell wrote that?! LOL! It's ridiculous, I am sorry!!! Only the "Naomi Campbell" look is accepted?! WTF!!! lol! Um?!?!

Williams Rulez
Aug 4th, 2002, 02:17 AM
Excatly... they whine about everything... even their 'muscles' :rolleyes:

Pinkie
Aug 4th, 2002, 05:44 PM
To Beige et al...

There is no denying there is a race factor to any discussion about the Williams sisters. I am sure there is a lot of racial bias underlying the criticism of the sisters. I know all too well the prejudice that people of other cultures, colors, etc face every day. On the other hand, Monica got a lot of the same criticism (lack of personality, tennis robot, parents from hell, etc) before she got stabbed. Same with Steffi before that. Any kind of comment on the Williams sisters seems to first have to go through a racism filter (which could even be justified; people often don't know they're bing racist until confronted with it). But I think it is sad that we're unable to have a real discussion about the sisters without the r word being tossed around withing 5 minutes. Just as we have to admit that there are racist elements to the criticism, we have to admit the racism has been used as an excuse not to answer to criticism.

Petersmiler
Aug 4th, 2002, 06:23 PM
Hi everyone!

I haven't posted on this board for a little while because of this very topic.

I personally cannot understand why any tennis fan can hate a particular tennis player! I understand them being a little annoyed or upset when their fave is beaten by another player, but some of the things said on this board are so over the top and filled with venom!

I enjoy watching and talking about womens tennis. I have my favourites, but I enjoy watching all of the top players and appreciate why they are there. Venus and Serena are dominating and I love the way they play and I think it's great for the game. They're not my faves, but I don't comprehend anyone hating them!

Eventually someone else will take over domination and that's the fascinating thing! You never know what's round the corner!

:wavey: