PDA

View Full Version : Pay Attention: How To Beat A Williams (or come close)


Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2002, 01:01 AM
Q. We all know that Serena has a tremendous power in her shot, but you seemed to be finding the way to combat that pretty regularly. Did you have a clear strategy for that before the match began?

ELS CALLENS: Yes. The first strategy was to play serve and volley the whole time against her, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that because she has a very good return. I was going to mix it up. So she didn't know what to expect. If I was maybe doing it all the time, she would regulate herself on that. But sometimes from the back it was tough and I had to play deep and play fast, also maybe back behind her. In the first set, she even fell a couple of times because the court was slippery. That was the strategy from the back, to try and get her out of balance on this grass court, not give her time, because if you give her time, then of course it's me that's running. Also keep the ball low with the slice. She was having a lot of trouble on that. That was also the strategy to play, if I could, a lot of slices, then come in.

Volcana
Jul 31st, 2002, 01:50 AM
[quote]"....not give her time, because if you give her time, then of course it's me that's running."[quote]

And if you can't keep your slice low, what do you give Serena when the ball slows down because of the slice? Time.

This is a strategy for fast players who can hit a good approach shot with a slice. Three names come to mind immediately. Patty Schnyder, Justine Henin and Venus Williams. Two because they CAN do this, one because she can't. In fact, I'm not sure there are even five players in the top hundred who can. The slice is almost purely a defensive or rallying shot these days. Few attack with it. Fewer go to net behind it.

R. DIS
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:18 AM
i think the best way to beat venus and serena is to make them run. Everyone says hit up the middle but that doesn't work anymore, that's what lindsay tries to do everytime and gets whipped. The way to beat them is to go for your shots like Jen did last year or like seles did at the AO this year.

"Topaz"
Jul 31st, 2002, 03:31 AM
Wait a minute, R. DIS! Making the Williams sisters run side to side has not been a successful strategy. They hit tremendous shots on the run with pace, angle and accuracy. Besides, Venus can deliver debilitating winners even from a defensive position. Just recall her merciless two-fisted BH DL shots against Kim last Sunday.

Now, when you consider that centering the ball doesn't work anymore, you're left with what Els Callens proposed above, that is, wrong footing, slices, serve & volley, mixing up, ... in other words, the rest of the bag, if you have time to execute.

The real feeling I have is that people are currently at a loss (no pun intended) when it comes to playing the sisters.

I think Davenport probably had it right when she said "you just have to hope they make mistakes".

Deira
Jul 31st, 2002, 03:33 AM
Are you kidding R. Dis? Both Venus and Serena are superb on the run.

Jericho
Jul 31st, 2002, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by jp
I think the title should be "how to beat Serena (or come close)". Venus is not a factor anymore. No GS, no tier 1; I expect her to lose on a regular basis now.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jovon
Jul 31st, 2002, 03:52 AM
and just who will beat Venus on a regular basis jp:rolleyes:

I cant even say Serena will do that :rolleyes:

R. DIS
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:36 AM
i'm not saying venus and serena aren't good on the run but if you look at the people who have beaten them in the last years Jen and Monica and even Kim and Justine they did it by hitting all out and making the winners before the venus or serena hit them. As a result it puts more pressure on venus and serena causing them to spray a lot of balls.

Williams Rulez
Jul 31st, 2002, 10:27 AM
Well, you can overpower them, but hardly anyone has the tools to do that.

Alternatively, throwing junk at them might work... :)

Jakeev
Jul 31st, 2002, 11:18 AM
Doesn't mean Els will be as successful in being close to Serena on hard courts the way she was on Grass.

We forget the bounces are different folks. I can guarantee whatever Els may have been able to get away with on grass will not happen say at the US Open.

Kudos to Els for being the one challenger to Serena the past several months but I would like to see how she would do on a harder surface.

Weevee
Jul 31st, 2002, 11:43 AM
It's quite a statement when we have to look to a straight sets loser for a strategy to beat Serena. It is even more remarkable when we have to dig up performances by Jen, Monica and Kim for help. Those players were themselves not able to repeat their winning strategies. They can't or won't -- that says it all.
The formula for beating the Williams: Get fit, chase down those balls, and wait for the errors.

lukehingis
Jul 31st, 2002, 01:54 PM
It's hard for power hitters to beat the sisters simply because they are the best of the powerhitters, they hit harder and are much faster and atheletic. The best way to play them is to play a counterpunching game, hit deep to the centre and mix up the shots. Hitting deep to the centre is very important as they would destroy any short ball. By hitting to the centre, angles are cut out for them and they'd make the error. At their best I've only seen Hingis come close to beating them (US Open SF 2000 and Wim 2000).

nander
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:09 PM
Suggest to the WTA that they are men!!! It wil take years to settle all the lawsuits and by then who will care?

The Crow
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:10 PM
Weevee, having a strategy and executing a strategy are two very different things. It's not as simple as saying that you win every time if only you have the right strategy. You're still talking about the number 1 and 2 in the world...

Uhm actually I'm probably just saying the same thing as you ;)

babsi
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:14 PM
If Hingis goes to the net, nine times out of ten it is through a slice approach shot.

GATORSHORT
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:29 PM
I think you have to come up with a game plan ,that will let you see how they are playing and adjust to it. What that plan will be i don't know.

Nimi
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
[quote]"....not give her time, because if you give her time, then of course it's me that's running."[quote]

And if you can't keep your slice low, what do you give Serena when the ball slows down because of the slice? Time.

This is a strategy for fast players who can hit a good approach shot with a slice. Three names come to mind immediately. Patty Schnyder, Justine Henin and Venus Williams. Two because they CAN do this, one because she can't. In fact, I'm not sure there are even five players in the top hundred who can. The slice is almost purely a defensive or rallying shot these days. Few attack with it. Fewer go to net behind it.

obviously you dont know grass courts

btw if someone made a comment about that already im sorry, i couldnt be bothered to read the rest of this thread..

bis2806
Aug 1st, 2002, 04:04 AM
Still, Lindsay, Jennifer and Monica have the best chances of beating the Williams sisters... All of them are big powerhitters with Lindsay in particular.... and I think Lindsay can beat the Williams now with her recent comeback having new looks, confidence and everything!

R. DIS
Aug 1st, 2002, 05:47 AM
Out of Lindsay, Monica, and Jen I think Monica has the best game to hurt the Williams sisters. If she was fit enough she'd beat them. If Jen had a better serve she'd beat them a lot. Lindsay has the power but i don't see her beating them. Jen and Monica have the best chances but they need to get much fitter and work on their serves.

Williams Rulez
Aug 1st, 2002, 09:43 AM
That's right RDIS... and if Venus or Serena were more consistant they'd be undefeatable.

TSequoia01
Aug 1st, 2002, 01:57 PM
I give credit to Callens for playing a good match. But imo what made the match close, was Serena's footing. When your footing is unsure in your mind (she fell three times at least) it affects your overall game. She scaled back on her aggression. Thus giving Callens time to execute. Of course hitting behind a quick player is always a good strategy. :cool:

moon
Aug 1st, 2002, 11:28 PM
I'm still waiting on jp to tell us who will be beating Venus on a regular basis.:rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by moon
I'm still waiting on jp to tell us who will be beating Venus on a regular basis.:rolleyes:

Oh please, that just Vanity taking shot at the sisters...she has no idea what she is talking about...I think a fitter Monica has the best chance to beat both Venus and Serena and only on her VERY BEST DAY...

Cybelle Darkholme
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:14 AM
Venus wont be remembered? wow such a commment reveals you dont know much, do you? at least when it comes to tennis history.

Cam'ron Giles
Aug 2nd, 2002, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by jp
hum ok lol i just said that i expect serena to win at least 3 of the next 5 slams and i'm taking shot? Tennis history won't remember Venus, just deal with it. Her tier 2 titles mean nothing, and it will be more and more difficult for her in the future to win them.

ROTFLMAO...Tennis history will not remember Venus...get the hell off the board you idiot...:rolleyes:

GogoGirl
Aug 2nd, 2002, 01:54 AM
Els played a very good game against Serena. Hitting behind her was a good strategy - but she just couldn't close it out.

I'd say the best way to beat the Sisters is to try to hit behind them and hit the balls dead in a corner.

If anyone wants to learn how best to beat Venus - they need to put in the tape of the Wimby final. To beat Serena - they need to try to use the strategy Els used.

I think the main thing about it though - is for a player to attack the shorts balls. That about sums it up in a nutshell - IMO.

Jericho
Aug 2nd, 2002, 02:09 AM
IMO, the best chance to beat the sisters is by:
1) Meeting for the first time or being winless against them
2) Playing them between R1 to R16
3) V&S being off of their games particularly their serve/ being injured.
4) Going for shots, hitting deep, hitting body serves...
5) Being nice so they dont have anything to motivate them to hit the ball so hard

fhkung
Jan 7th, 2003, 02:12 AM
serve and volley vs the Williams on grass......
that may just be the way to do it......:)

Hawk
Jan 7th, 2003, 02:26 AM
I have to agree that Callen's strategy would only really work on grass, however she put in a great performance against Serena so she was doing something right.

So making them run isn't a good idea cause they they'll kill you with angles and up the middle does really work either as they can often create angles..i'm thinking next on the list for Williams opponents is the ability to fly :D I'm sure that'll work ;)