View Full Version : Venus can play with the men

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:39 PM

Foolish admission: Venus can play with the men

Betting Fool, SF Gate Tuesday, July 30, 2002


I have a history of piggish behavior. I've never been too kind to the Williams sisters and have been fairly brutal on women's sports in general.

But as I watched highlights of Venus Williams powering to victory in the Bank of the West tennis tournament over the weekend -- it hit me. Like a surprise punch to the point of the shoulder, it startled me.

Venus Williams (Serena, too) is the first female athlete who can beat a man playing at a pro level. Don't even mention Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs.

What I'm talking about is beating a lower level pro men's player, maybe the 231st-ranked player in the world. It would not happen in any other sport, not even close. But I think Venus/Serena could win, and would certainly be competitive.

There was talk of Venus playing John McEnroe. She might wipe the court with him. She might lose, too. But it would be competitive. In no other sports -- real sports, ones we watch -- are women close to being able to win, or even compete.

But Venus is changing the way this ol' Fool thinks about women's sports.

Will there ever be a female kicker in the NFL? No. A position player? That's very funny.

I keep getting the WNBA rammed down my throat because the NBA's marketing snakes continue to get this league some major TV time.

Not one player in the WNBA would be competitive in men's college basketball, let alone the NBA. The best of the WNBA might make a good high school team. Maybe.

Baseball? Well, there is an argument that any good women's softball player could play outfield for the Giants right now. But they couldn't hit a 93 mph fastball, a slider or a changeup. Other than maybe a few lucky foul balls.

I can already hear the name Mia Hamm being uttered by you feisty chicks out there. She could play in MLS, you think.

One ESPN columnist even went so far as to say that she could play second base in the majors. He also said that "If Richard Williams were a Dodgers fan, Serena would be hitting .280 now and the Dodgers would be winning the division."

Uh, wrong. On both counts.

Hamm may have very good ball-control skills, but her lack of speed and toughness would prevent Mia from being a decent MLS player. She'd get knocked over and off the ball in most open-field battles. She could play for a decent men's college team -- maybe.

Anyway, soccer is not a sport we watch. And the Williams sisters -- even if they had played baseball every waking moment of their lives -- would not be able to play for the Dodgers.

I guess I should mention hockey. There, I did.

Auto racing? We've seen the results. Just getting a place on the starting grid is not competing. Especially when you don't finish the race, or are out after 10 laps.

Golf? Annika Sorenstam wouldn't make any cuts playing from the same tees as PGA Tour pros. Laura Davies might if she could putt. But she doesn't care. Karrie Webb? Again, lack of length would kill her.

Tennis needs to set up the match: Venus against an average male pro. Everyone would watch. And Venus could get the last laugh.

While we're on the subject of equality, or whatever this is, I'd like to publicly wonder why I'm not allowed into WUSA and WNBA locker rooms. Hundreds of women are allowed to watch naked men in NFL, NBA and MLB locker areas.
Would I look? Yes, Do women sportswriters look? No doubt about it. I'm not saying it'd be all that pretty, but I want a credential and I want one soon.

I've thought long and hard about Lance Armstrong and his place in sports history. I could not watch the Tour de France for any length because it wasn't all that much different than watching a marathon. I have no idea how there could possibly be team strategy in bike racing and the guy does the same motion over and over again and there's no ball involved and they don't really keep score and I don't care if his resting heart rate is the same as a frozen panda. But millions of Europeans can't be wrong. Lance rules.

It's amazing that a week ago the Giants seemed headed for the dumper and the A's were the pretty boys of the Bay Area. At this moment -- and it could change by the weekend -- the Giants are in much better position to make the playoffs than Oakland.
San Francisco is only a game out of the wild card and after watching the Dodgers and their bogus collection of slap hitters for the last few days, it seems that LA will fall away in September. Their pitching isn't *that* good.

Once the Giants get everyone back, they have a much better offense. Oh, but the Reds and Mets are still in the wild-card hunt. No, they are not.

Laboring through the four-hour abomination of Monday night, it's clear the A's have a horrible pre-Koch bullpen and their streaky power hitters can really look bad at times. I got a lot of e-mail about Chad Bradford last week and "how in the hell" could I possibly not know that he was the No. 1 setup man in baseball. I mean, Peter Gammons said it. It must be true. Check Bradford's last few outings. Strikingly mediocre, I must say.

Also, the A's "Big Three" is rapidly becoming the "Big Two." Tim Hudson is not getting the job done consistently.

A reminder: NFL preseason football is the biggest ripoff in sports. Don't watch it, don't attend games and don't talk about it. Is it better than the WNBA? Much.

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:43 PM
Yes! I even think that Venus can beat Leytton Hewitt in a tennis match. She'd even knock him out in a boxing match!

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:46 PM
Lleyton is as powerful if not more powerful than Venus it just doesn't show because Venus and Serena overpower everybody where as Lleyton seems average when it comes to power!

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:48 PM
Where do u get those articles from?
I mean, why should you post this article here?

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:49 PM
I expect this thread to get bombarded the same way Fingon's thread got (unfairly) bombarded when he brought up the same subject :(

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:50 PM
LMAO @ Venus can beat Lleyton!!!!

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:50 PM

Forgive me all for giving Venus her props again with this post - but I just love the way the writer wrote this. And especially, the first pargraph.



Not much opposition for classy Williams

Bruce Jenkins, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, July 29, 2002

THE BATTLE ends so quickly for Venus Williams. One last punishing shot,

an earnest handshake at the net, and then she's an entirely new person.

With graceful, carefree waves to the crowd, she looks like an upscale socialite about to embark on a Caribbean cruise. The rest of us stand dockside,

hoping she has a wonderful time.

To catch her in that moment, you couldn't imagine the single-minded destruction that preceded it. In a vintage Sunday performance that humbled Kim Clijsters, brought gasps of appreciation from the crowd and earned her the Bank of the West title at Stanford, Venus gave everyone a taste of big-time power tennis -- for now and the foreseeable future.

Because the outcome seems so inevitable (against anyone but her sister, Serena), and because she's too classy to spice up a match with obscenities or broken rackets, the mind tends to wander while watching Venus. It drifts into the past, and an era of tennis that makes a 30-year gap seem like a century.

Before the Jimmy Connors-led crew came along and changed everything, crushing the two-handed backhand and fostering an attitude of relentless baseline aggression, the game was played in relative slow motion -- and that's the men's game we're talking about. Watching the old films, it is not merely obvious that players used wooden rackets and an infinite variety of shots. They didn't think like Venus Williams or the other big names in women's tennis today. Even fiery competitors like Pancho Gonzales and Tony Trabert didn't unload a full-power laser beam on every single shot.

"When you're playing Venus," Clijsters said afterward, "you feel like every shot has to be perfect. She hits the ball so hard and has so much range, you just can't make any mistakes."

So how good is the women's game, relative to the men? Watching Venus against Andre Agassi might not be a pretty sight, but what about the John McEnroe challenge that seems to surface every few months? The purists scoff, and without question, the thing could turn into a circus, but it might not be long before the women's tour runs out of legitimate opposition and McEnroe seems a worthy alternative.

Even at 43, McEnroe could confound Venus with his big-bending, left-handed serve. At close range, trying to catch up to her fearsome groundstrokes, he might not be so quick to belittle Venus or any other female player. Still, he'd throw a little imagination into the match, with his volleys and touch and general court sense. Martina Hingis is a thoughtful player when healthy, but nobody else offers the Williams sisters any kind of strategic challenge -- and even at that, Hingis stays mostly at the baseline.

What McEnroe could do, if not win the match outright, is provide a spark. There would have to be somebody out there to recognize the inherent genius in McEnroe's game. Maybe a 12-year-old prospect who looks beyond the baseline, who would rather hit her backhand with slice and topspin, with force and touch,

instead of turning loose the same shot every time. Then the sport would move forward.

Not that Venus doesn't have a few ideas. At 5-3 and 30-all in the first set,

she suddenly rushed to the net behind a forward-moving groundstroke. This amounted to Shaquille O'Neal shooting an underhand free throw, or Tiger Woods using Bernhard Langer's putter; you just don't see it.

Clijsters screamed as her passing shot was sent back, decisively, but in fact it was a lunging, backhanded volley winner from Venus -- a fleeting meteor for now, but perhaps a sign of the future. She also surprised everyone with an exquisite forehand drop shot, from just inside the baseline, so perfect that even Clijsters' quick reaction wasn't enough.

Such moments are telling when it comes to Venus' staying power in the public eye. Commissioners argue for parity but the fans know better; they enjoy great teams and truly dominant athletes. The brand of appeal comes from all directions: style (Muhammad Ali), humility (Derek Jeter), arrogance (Pedro Martinez), well-timed emotion (Woods). There is great beauty in Venus' stoicism, but if her game takes on additional depth and creativity, there will be a freshness to her command. And for Serena's, as well.

So there was Venus after Sunday's win, chatting comfortably with the press and reiterating that Stanford, and the whole Bay Area, is one of her favorite places. "I always have a great time here," she said. "Went to Pier 39 and Chinatown, did a lot of things. But not Alcatraz. That's always sold out."

Not to worry. At day's end, there's a cruise ship waiting for Venus. It's a very private line, with destinations fit only for her.

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:52 PM
GogoGirl, do u have a mind of your own or is your mind an article-searching computer?

Jul 30th, 2002, 10:58 PM
This whole thread is ridiculous :rolleyes:

Jul 30th, 2002, 11:35 PM
I just want to know why the thread is ridiculous...I don't really care but i don't see anything wrong with the articles Gogogirl is posting.

Jul 30th, 2002, 11:40 PM
whats wrong with posting an article???

Jul 30th, 2002, 11:43 PM
I like the point the journalist made about equality as far as him NOT being allowed in the women's locker rooms. I think it's very unfair that women journalists are allowed access to both locker rooms but men journalists are not. Other than that point, I think the article's just some guy's opinion, but it made for a good read though, because it kind of shows that Venus and Serena are changing a lot of people's minds about their abilities.

Jul 30th, 2002, 11:48 PM
Keep on doing what you're doing Gogo.
I like reading the articles. :)

some of you really need to lighten up!

Shuji Shuriken
Jul 31st, 2002, 12:11 AM
You rock GoGoGirl...Keep them articles coming and leave them hatersfuming. I wonder what makes this thread ridiculous. Rock on Venus. You know you're my fave.

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:28 AM
I liked the second article, thanks for posting the articles GoGoGirl.

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:34 AM
I don't think people realize the difference between the men's and women's game.

Women hit it hard.
Men hit it harder. With topspin.

Women hit some down the line shots. Inconsistently.
Men hit half of their shots a foot from each line. Consistently.

The top women run fast.
The slowest male runs faster. (Definitely the biggest difference between the sexes is foot speed).

Women (V&S) serve at 120 mph. Second serves around 80 mph.
Men serve at 120 mph, with a kick, and on the lines. Second serve above 100 mph.

I'm not going to go into the difference in volleys, touch, etc.

A top-ranked high school player (as in, one of the best in the state) could beat either Williams sister. Even Wertheim (::shudders::) agrees.

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:39 AM
uhh...I hate those men vs women sport comparisons. Why don't people see them as two different sports? why compare them? It's like comparing cricket vs baseball. I happen to enjoy women's tennis, men's soccer, mens/womens track&field and men's basketball and dislike men's tennis, womens soccer, women's basketball and mens/womens/juniors baseball. I don't care how players from one of those sport do on another. Who really gives a damn and why?

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:45 AM
Love the articles GoGoGirl.....
Keep em coming

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:58 AM
Serena spoke about entering a men's tournament - I say let her. She is currently a more complete player than Venus basically because there are no evident weaknesses. I think she would fair a lot better than most people would give her credit for. Her serve is the best on the tour - her movement is only matched by Venus and her determination is simply unmatched. If anyone could take on a good pro mens player and beat him it would be Serena.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2002, 01:38 AM
Love the articles since I've never read them before. As far as the whole men vs women tennis players go. Fine, I agree that no woman in the top 100 is going to beat a man in the top 100 unless he was having a very very very bad day.

However, a woman tennis player did beat a man tennis player. BJK vs Bobby Riggs, how do you explain that? Obviously a woman can beat a man because it happened.

Jul 31st, 2002, 01:54 AM
I love this line:

"To catch her in that moment, you couldn't imagine the single-minded destruction that preceded it."

And this:

"Because the outcome seems so inevitable (against anyone but her sister, Serena), and because she's too classy to spice up a match with obscenities or broken rackets, the mind tends to wander while watching Venus."


Cam'ron Giles
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:02 AM
I think the idea of men playing against women is stupid... Venus and Serena are WOMEN...why dont they say JC and Momo (bigger girls) can beat men?....STUPID...

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2002, 02:07 AM
I think lindsay would have the best chance.

Jul 31st, 2002, 02:15 AM
this is such a load of crap, venus nor serena, or any woman can ever beat a man. This guy thinks because she beat kim that she can beat a man. What a joke, venus might win a couple games but that's it.

Jul 31st, 2002, 02:49 AM
:D I can't for the life of me understand why more people don't exercise their "free will" and not enter posts they find obnoxious or ridiculous!!:( :( There are plenty of threads I "choose" not to enter and keep my comments on those threads to myself.

The posters who dislike the articles posted by GogoGirl should move on and find the threads more to their liking. It's as simple as that!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

BTW, thanks Gogo for the articles. I, as usual, found them quite entertaining.:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Niminator
GogoGirl, do u have a mind of your own or is your mind an article-searching computer?

LMFAO!!!! :D :D :D

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:18 AM
Keep doin' what cha doin' GogoGirl. If the articles were more about their favs, they'd be eating it up. :kiss:

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:21 AM
Oh yeah, and maybe some of them got the ass 'cause nobody is writing about their favs. ;)

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:22 AM
Lindsay is too slow. Venus has the best chance of any female player, because she tends to be more of a retriever than Serena, doesn't always try and hit a winner right away. That means longer rallies, which means a better chance that the male player might get injured. If the male player doesn't get injured, it ain't gonna happen.

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:25 AM
hey Guga is still recovering from hip surgery. maybe she can beat him! :eek: :eek:

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 31st, 2002, 03:25 AM
Dont get me wrong GOGOGIRL, I love the articles that you post. I just find the idea of women playing men stupid...

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:37 AM
Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Justine, any girl can play against a man.

The question is, can they win?

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:52 AM
Okay, guys! Are you subliminally suggesting that the Williamses are a breed in between, that is, too good for the women and not quite good enough for the men? Ahhh those sisters! They keep some people sleepless!

This is a real phenomenon we all should be glad to be witnessing.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:42 AM
Leytton Hewitt may be the best tennis player in the world, but VENUS is a God! And a God can never be beaten....plus, she's also NOT from this planet!

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by TennisPower
Okay, guys! Are you subliminally suggesting that the Williamses are a breed in between, that is, too good for the women and not quite good enough for the men? Ahhh those sisters! They keep some people sleepless!

This is a real phenomenon we all should be glad to be witnessing.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! Venus only has 4 slams, Serena only 3 there are many more women with more slams then 4 or 3. Just because serena has won the last two slams doesn't mean she's better than all the women. They are not even close to being the best ever so why does everyone think they are too good. Steffi won tournament after tournament slam after slam did poeple say she was too good for the women? It's absurd to think venus and serena are too good for the other women when they only have a couple slams.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:59 AM
I love your threads and articles Go go girl:wavey:

Don't read the usual assholes of this board:rolleyes: :p ;)

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:28 AM
thanks GogoGirl for the articles, keep them coming :)

I agree with eta psi, why can't we just appreciate the differences between the womens and mens game
and just enjoy both the womens and mens tennis- instead of making it a battle of the sexes.

Like Vee said u can't compare oranges to apples....

Jul 31st, 2002, 07:40 AM
Of course she can play with the guyz, but she will never have an ATP title after her retirement.:o

Jul 31st, 2002, 10:31 AM
I'm sure Justine would kick Agasi's ass ;)


Williams Rulez
Jul 31st, 2002, 10:46 AM
Well, Venus can beat players below the ermm... 400th rank maybe?

But it is gonna be tough.

Jul 31st, 2002, 12:05 PM
the top Boys U18 would win pretty easy over any women

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:43 PM
Anytime i read topics of this kind, i feel like posting a s tory Gianni Clerici usually tells on Telepiu' (italian satellite tv)

During winter 2000, the first "rumours" about the Williamses being able to beat a man were already spreading out.
Serena ingenously caught them and declared: "i'm ready to challenge anyday mens' n░200"
It happened to be Karlsten Braasch, who happened to be there and happened to have listened to the interview.
Karlsten immediately sent her back a "challenge" message: "Ok, i'm ready, too"
The "friendly" match was somewhat organized:
Braasch easily won, without pushing it too far, 6.1
Venus, who was there watching, proposed to replace her sister for the second set.
Braasch accepted and beat her, too, 6.2

I don't know whether this is true or not, urban myth or Clerici's upteenth extravaganza, but for what it's worth i think it is likely to be real.

I mean, i definitely agree with TheBoiledEgg: any second category could easily beat a top ten woman, let alone Clerici's story.

Had anyone else heard about it?

Jul 31st, 2002, 03:55 PM
Definitely. In bed, not on tennis court..

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:03 PM
way...it is not myth, it IS true. It was during the Australian Open, and I saw the footage on TV.

Braasch toyed with Serena and she was like a rag doll, scrambling from side to side. For her credit though, she matched him in power but he had the answers for everything and answered all of her shots effortlessly. She just couldnt handle the heavy spin etc...Venus looked on and even though the match was played out in high spirits, Serena was very focused and determined but just couldnt keep up. Didnt see footage of Venus, but I imagine it was the same thing.

Oh and I should mention, Karsten was no spring chicken, and also was fairly low ranked at the time.

Bright Red
Jul 31st, 2002, 04:06 PM
I could care less about them being able to beat a man. Why should they? They accomplish more than enough by beating other women.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
However, a woman tennis player did beat a man tennis player. BJK vs Bobby Riggs, how do you explain that? Obviously a woman can beat a man because it happened.
No one doubts that some women can beat some men. That is not the issue. We're discussing how far removed from the top a guy needs to be in order to lose to a world-leading female like Serena Williams.

Battle of the Sexes didn't tell us much. Or perhaps it did. Bobby Riggs was 55 and in fairly poor shape. Not 35 or 45. But a full 55 years old. BJK was 29 and trimmed. She won Wimbledon that year - 1973.

But Riggs - who had beaten Margaret Court (she was around 30 a the time) a devastating 6-1 6-2 some months earlier - was still fairly competitive and pushed her in the first set. He eventually tired and was defeated 6-4 6-3 6-3. Not a squeezer by any strech.

You could argue that she should have dismantled him easier.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:13 PM
What Bright Red said.
I don't care if they can or cannot beat a man. as long as they keep beating all the women, i'm happy.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:14 PM
Karsten Braasch's declined rapidly after injuries in 1997, and he lost in the 1st Round of the 1998 Australian Open. He was aged 30 at the time.

His best days were in the middle of 90s when he reached the Top 40.

Here is his own personal account of what happened when he met both Williams sisters in one afternoon:


Karsten Braasch
Sunday September 2, 2001
The Observer

It was the 1998 Australian Open and the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena, had seen some of the male players practising. On the basis of what they saw, they were convinced that they could beat a man ranked around 200 in the world and wanted to set up a game. At the time I was ranked 203 so the men's tour manager mentioned the possibility of a challenge to me, thinking that I was the perfect candidate. I didn't take much persuading, it seemed like a fun thing to do.

My advice if you're ever in a position to play a match of this nature is be patient - don't be annoyed or surprised if your match against the Williams sisters is cancelled, as they both have very busy schedules. My game against them had to be re-organised at least a couple of times.

Preparation is crucial. Remember that a game like this is light-hearted - taking it too seriously would be a mistake. My training regime consisted of a leisurely round of golf in the morning followed by a couple of shandies. I turned up on court feeling suitably laid-back.

My first game of the afternoon, just a one-set match, was against Serena. A hint: try and play your match somewhere quiet, where you're not going to be pestered by big crowds or lots of press - we were out on one of the back courts at Melbourne Park, No 17 I think it was. I felt so relaxed that I didn't even warm up properly. We started playing and I raced into a 5-0 lead.

At this point Venus turned up to watch. She had just finished a press conference after a quarter-final loss against Lindsey Davenport. In the end I won my game against Serena 6-1 but by the time we were at the net shaking hands, Venus was on court, ready to have a go against me as well. The game against Venus was very similar. I ended up winning 6-2.

Both sisters are great tennis players and hit the ball extremely well. However, if you've been playing on the men's tour there are certain shots you can play that are going to put them in difficulty. Try and put a lot spin on the ball - I was hitting the ball with a degree of spin they don't face week-in, week-out. Another key is to chase down every shot. In our match, they were putting shots into the corners that on the women's tour would be winners but I was able to return them.

In the end I won, but neither myself, nor Venus or Serena took the game too seriously - we were just having a bit of fun.

Apparently, after the game, Serena and Venus immediately told the press they wanted to challenge a male player again. This time they revised the ranking of the man they wanted to face, to 350 in the world. I informed the journalist who told me this that in the next week I was set to lose a lot of ATP points and drop down to 350 in the rankings. I told him that if Venus and Serena waited just one week they could challenge me all over again!

That never came about, but when I saw Venus a few months later at the French Open she came up to me with a big smile on her face and said, 'You know that thing in Australia - it never happened!'

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:18 PM
Nice story. Hilarious.LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:28 PM
hehe, thanx Iconoclast :)

Just like I remembered it ;)...just cant believe it was over 4 years ago!

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:47 PM
I agree w/many. Although - I wouldn't mind seeing some exhibitions between some.

1. Momo against Guga
2. Henin against Federrer
3. Hingis against Hewitt
4. Jennifer against Andy
5. Serena against Blake
7. Venus against Andre
8. Lindsay againt Gambill or - Petey

Of course - they could be traded off - but I think the matches would rock and pull in many spectators.

On a professional level though - it will never happen - so why obsess? I think the author was trying to give Venus a compliment by stating that when she is in a zone/her zone/her galaxy/her universe - she appears to be in the best shape to win ova many lower ranked men and win a few games off the higher ranked ones.

And so - this begs the question then. Why can the men wipe up the court ova the women? Is it their physical upper body strength that they possess ova the females - or is it their wit and court sense and savvy?

I mean - how long was it before women were allowed to join the Armed Forces - or the fire department - etc. I think there is a very fair chance that many of the females could win a few games against the men. And let's not forget that in a mixed doubles match - the women also contribute much to the winning team's effort.

Now in boxing - the man would probably knock out a lady in the first round - and mainly because that is what he would choose to do - in order to teach her a lesson. But - I remember in the 8th grade - me and a boy named Chris went toe to toe during homeroom before the teacher arrived - and I handled my business. Of course - we both got sent to the principal's office for it - but I hurt 'em.

Btw - thanks to you all that appreciate the articles. Again - that is what the WTA Fans website provided. IMO - that is the least I can do. Some folks know that I could care less whether they like me or my articles - and can talk to the hand.

Jul 31st, 2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by GogoGirl
Btw - thanks to you all that appreciate the articles. Again - that is what the WTA Fans website provided. IMO - that is the least I can do. Some folks know that I could care less whether they like me or my articles - and can talk to the hand.
"Joining in on the Ricki Lake jargon": You go, girl!

I didn't agree with much of the content of this particular article, but that is more than a few kilometers besides the point. It was on-topic and an interesting read. And it certainly spurred discussion.

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:00 PM
Gogogirl is a bully :eek: ( i bet he was a dweeb ;) ) j/k

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:06 PM

Although I found the articles entertaining, the recurring theme of playing against men annoys me. The WTA does not need a tour member to play well or beat an ATP player for legitimacy.

The amount of media coverage, ratings at Grand Slams, and growing endorsement money speak to the growing popularity of the WTA.

Anyway, thanks for the articles. :)

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 31st, 2002, 05:16 PM
Cute article, its nice to know they didnt take it seriously at all. Hmm maybe they should ask him for a rematch with the 2002 version of serena and venus? maybe they can get a few more games.

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:19 PM

I always appreciate your articles. You are able to find stuff that I'm completely unaware of. Thanks and keep 'em coming.

And by the way, I like the fact that Venus is changing the minds of some folk - not that that's her purpose or her responsibility.

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:31 PM
please, be realistic:rolleyes:

Jul 31st, 2002, 05:34 PM
Concerning Karsten Braasch:

In all fairness, it has to be said that Karsten Braasch was not an 'average' top 200-player. OK, he is famous for chain-smoking and beer-drinking, but his best ranking was 39 after all. In 1995, he pushed Pete Sampras to 4 close sets in Wimbledon.
He also has an unusual game. He's left-handed, plays serve-and-volley, plays with lots of slice and spin. And, as many will know, his service-motion is quite extra-ordinary as well. ;) So no shame to get trounced by him.
Considering a re-match. Actually Braasch is still playing ! He's now 35 but has won at least one ATP-doubles-title this year with Olhovski (who is even older). And he plays in the German Bundesliga (team-competition). Actually I might have the chance to check him out there on friday, so after that I can predict the outcome of the re-match. ;)

Jul 31st, 2002, 07:35 PM
Thank you, iconoclast and iva's fan, now Clerici's stroy has a solid ground to lay on.
And an article (i'm gonna send it to him) to support his story.

Williams Rulez
Aug 1st, 2002, 09:29 AM
Interesting story Iconolast... :)