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View Full Version : Im sorry but Jelena does not belong in top10


kay
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:31 AM
The only reason she's there is because she plays an excessive amount of tournaments. Now, Im not saying that she doesnt have the potential of becoming a true top 10 player because I think she does. But, she really needs to take some time off and try to figure out what she's doing. She's wearing herself out playing in all of these tournaments. I dont know what she's going to do but she needs to do something. New coach, maybe? Maybe her fans have some suggestions?

Crazy Canuck
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:34 AM
Being in the top ten, means that you have acquired a certain amount of points, that is exceeded by no more than nine other people.


Thus, Jelena belongs in the top ten, unless she is surpassed.

;)

Philbo
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:40 AM
Jelena is just a slave to Damir, and their need for money to fight their court case..

Its her own fault, she continues to let her fathers influence undermine a potentially succesful career...

I couldnt care less, the girl is a loser.

SM
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:41 AM
i think she does.

If you look at her performances this year shes been very consistent in beating those ranked outside the top ten..her worst loss was to Schnyder(24) but she retired injured and her slam results are QF and 4TH RD.

shes definately been more consistent than others like Henin,Kim etc and well even if she hasnt beaten too many people ranked above her shes certainly done well against those below her.

I dont think she should be at no5, its true the amount shes played has put her a little above where she is..but for now shes a top ten player! at the end of the year we'll see tho cos jelena is defending alot and shell drop to about ten IMO

kay
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:41 AM
No. Really? Uh, uh!

My point is that she has to play alot of tournaments just to stay in the top10. She should be looking for quality instead of quantity. I just think she has so much potential and it is ruined because she's playing way too much. The last few times Ive watched her play it has been very frustrating because she should have won against Capriati and Lindsay. How can Lindsay come back after 9 months and not even get a challenge from Jelena, 6-2,6-2. That's pitiful. She should take some time off, even if her ranking slips and maybe think about getting a new coach or something.

kay
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:43 AM
My above post was directed to Rebecca, thanks for your input everyone else.

moon
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:48 AM
Jelena is #5? Well wonders never cease.
After the fall, I expect her to fall down to her rightful place, 9 or 10 at best.

Jericho
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:54 AM
the ranking reflects what you do over a year in tournament play, which i think she deserves to be there cause she plays alot...if the ranking was based on talent, then she wouldnt be top ten on my list...

Berlin_Calling
Jul 29th, 2002, 04:11 AM
I agree kay, it quantity not quality for a top ten ranking which is not right

TS
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:04 AM
I agree that #5 is too high. She really hasnt performed as a top 5 player at Grand Slam level.

Playing so many events also gives her somewhat of an advantage because if she falters in one event, she pretty much has a 'second chance' to make amends the next week...whereas someone who plays 17 or less, has pretty much one shot at it (to count in their rank).

Richie77
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:08 AM
Rather than state my opinions, I'll let her last 52 weeks speak for themselves:

Event, Tier, Result, Points

Moscow I WIN 339
Tokyo (Princess Cup) II WIN 298
Roland Garros Grand Slam QF 264
Zurich I FINAL 262
Paris II ($585K) FINAL 230
Birmingham III ($170K) WIN 186
Linz II FINAL 174
Bahia II FINAL 160
Sarasota IV WIN 157
Hamburg II ($585K) SF 156
U.S. Open Grand Slam 4th 146
Amelia Island II ($585K) SF 135
Strasbourg III ($170K) FINAL 134
Sanex Chps. Sanex QF 132
Wimbledon Grand Slam 4th 132
New Haven II QF 100
Toronto I 3rd 69

Remaining tournamnets not counted in Best of 17:
Stanford II ($585K) QF 65
Rome I ($1.224M) 3rd 61
Berlin I ($1.224M) 3rd 40
Miami I ($2.1M) 3rd 38
San Diego II 3rd 36
Los Angeles II 3rd 36
Indian Wells I ($2.1M) 3rd 36
Leipzig II 2nd (BYE) 1
Tokyo (Pan Pacific) I ($1.224M) 2nd (BYE) 1
Antwerp II ($585K) 2nd (BYE) 1
Charleston I ($1.224M) 2nd (BYE) 1
Eastbourne II ($585K) 2nd (BYE) 1

So...29 events, 15 quarterfinals or better, and the result that sticks out in my mind - only five first-match losses.

Jelena does deserve to be in the Top 10.

JeffD
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:16 AM
It doesn't take a genius to arrive at the conclusion that a top 10 ranking is gained as a result of beating other top-ranked players more consistently than lower ranked players...

If you do not have the talent, athleticism and sheer will to achieve that, it doesn't matter how often you play - you will never reach that level.

It's like tossing a coin, if you do it a few times, you might get lucky and be able to predict the outcome a high percentage of the time. But, the more you toss the coin, the more likely it is that the law of averages will catch up with you and your true ability of guessing heads or tails will become apparent - that is, that you're going to be right about 50% of the time.

The same goes for tennis matches. You might get lucky and catch a better player on a bad day when they're sick or injured. You might do this several times and achieve some victories that you might not otherwise have achieved. BUT, as with coin tossing, the more matches you play, the more likely it is that your true ability will be revealed and you will achieve the ranking that you truly deserve.

Now, explain to me again how it is that Jelena is only in the top 10 because she plays more matches...

(Actually there IS an answer but let's see how many of you lamebrains - who generate a sense of superiority by criticizing people who are infinitely better at what they do than the criticizers- know what it is....)

And - talking of quality v quantity - here's another question (especially for Chrispy) - how many bouncing frogs does a post have to contain before someone notices that you exist....?

Answer (especially for Chrispy) - none if you have something useful and intelligent to say......

Jeff

Berlin_Calling
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:41 AM
smart Jeff, but that whole first part of the post was kinda unneccesary :rolleyes:

And ill' explain to you how Jelena's in the top ten. Since she plays more tourneys than other top players almost only half of her results actually count towards the ranking. So say she makes the quarters consistently, which a #5 ranked player should make every tourney, it will take those results and the few semis, finals, and titles she has won, (most of them coming when no other top 10 player was playing last year) when she is ranked. Says a top player that plays 17 or less tournaments loses in the first round of a tourney for whatever reason (ie, Henin, getting injured) this actually goes into the ranking of the player. Jelena should not be ranked ahead of Justine, Kim, Lindsay and maybe Martina. All these other players have had better results at the GS and had wins over other top players when they were at their peak. (ie. Kim beating Venus this year, Justine beating Serena this year). Half the time when Jelena plays week in and week out, she doesnt even have to face a Williams sister or Capriati thus winning the tournament of getting far.

SM
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:50 AM
Why dont u look at it on the other side of the fence. sure Jelenas played alot and has back up events, but what if she did play a concentarted schedule and perhaps 'luckily' picked the events she performed best in over the past 52 weeks?

or...what if she does get more quality thru less quantity...

as others have said her dads just milking her for every penny..thats gonna limit her player development and in the end she might never get to the elite top 5 level(i mean on a permanent basis)..

THE NET
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:04 AM
I do think she belongs to TOP 10. She often lose easily to those TOP 5 girls. I mean she can play real well one day, and the other day, she plays bad enough to lose to anybody.

She needs to improve on many things.


:o

Rollo
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:10 AM
She "deserves" her top ten IMO-but there's no doubt her rank is inflated by the system.

I see Kay's point. She's in danger of turning into a Manuela Maleeva. The first(and best) Maleeva had the talent to go further but rarely took a break to develop her game. Like Jelena, Maleeva had a habit of turning up at lower tier events.

Moon's 9 or 10 is a better reflection of where she's at than a computer ranking she'll have (#5 or 6) going into the US open.

rhz
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:14 AM
i think anybody has the right to play as many tournament as she wishes! if you think players ranked below her should be on top of her, then why not she/they play more tournament aswell.

personally i do believe she belongs up there, although 5 is too high. but hingis and davenport are injured, clijsters is not playing as good as last year, so does justine. and we are not seeing anybody who could pass her outside the top 10 real soon. Except maybe Hantuchova, but not in a few months!

so just except the reality! the ranking system is not the best, but that is the one we have.

Rollo
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:22 AM
The "others" who could play more events don't because it's the slams they are after rhz. It's the slams that" count", not rankings.
For all the WTA babble, slams are the bottom line.

Jericho
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:31 AM
if hingis doesnt play the US Open, hantuchova will be in the top ten...

AjdeNate!
Jul 29th, 2002, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by IndyRichie
Madrid III ($170K) FINAL 134


I thought Monica beat Chanda at Madrid....

She does belong in the top 10. If she plays 30 tournaments a year or 17...she's proven over the past 52 weeks, she's a top 10 player.

irma
Jul 29th, 2002, 07:25 AM
she is in the top 10 so she belongs there
I think if she would concentrate more on quality as on quantity, it would help her more though!

bello
Jul 29th, 2002, 07:30 AM
Im not a Dokic fan, however to saqy they she doesnt deserve to be in top 10 is unfair. While her excessive tournament play is a bit much, it can work nearly as much in her disadvantage as much as in her advantage, she is constantly setting herself up with heaps of points to defend. She is also quite consistent and although maybe i think no.5 is a bit too high, she is definately deservant of around 8-9 in the world.

per4ever
Jul 29th, 2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by rhz
but hingis and davenport are injured, clijsters is not playing as good as last year, so does justine.

euhm I think Henin is playing as well as last year, probably even better.

Amanda
Jul 29th, 2002, 07:46 AM
Jelena deserves her ranking. She is definitely a top 10 player.

King Lindsay
Jul 29th, 2002, 09:06 AM
I would just like to say that Dokic's worst loss ranking wise this year wasn't to Schnyder. Whoever posted that is going on the CURRENT rankings, not by where the player who beat her was ranked when she did. Anne Kremer (who beat Dokic three consecutive times with EMBARASSING ease), and Anna Smashnova were both below #24 in the rankings when they took her out. Probably Anastasia Myskina too.

Of course Jelena deserves to be in the top ten. But she isn't nearly as good a player as Hingis or Davenport, and I'd even put Clijsters and Henin as a cut above her, but she's closer to their level.

vutt
Jul 29th, 2002, 10:16 AM
Yeah! She reached her dream goal for 2002 and got pretty much destroyed here. What a cruel world.

Statistics is emotionless and #5 is #5 whether or not someone was injured or played more tournaments.

Good job Jelena!

King Aaron
Jul 29th, 2002, 10:44 AM
yup !! Good job Jeca !! :D

and I think she belongs there. Indy's post says it all !!

Williams Rulez
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:00 PM
She definitely deserves the ranking... what's more she deserves to be commended for her immense support of the tour by playing so much.

Go Jelena! :D

tennischick
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:04 PM
what will impress me is if she can defend most of these points next year and improve her ranking as a result. that would be incredible.

sartrista7
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:09 PM
It's not Jelena's quantity which is inflating her points total. Only her best 17 results count anyway, so if she hadn't played those other 13 tournaments she'd still have the same point total. It's because she has 13 events she can discount which makes her seem worse than she is: if she has 13 opening round losses, it's not going to show on the computer. But the fact is she does have enough good tournament sto put her at #5. (People have said that #5 is too high, whereas #8 or #9 is a more accurate reflection; probably true, but Dokic, Henin and Clijsters have very close point totals, and they're essentially playing musical chairs with those spots. And Hingis and Davenport are #8 and #9 cos they've been injured.)

tennisfun
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:13 PM
She is a top ten player only on paper. I mean when you look at the draw of a tournament, you see her name and what's your thought? Most people would consider whoever has her in her quarter get a good draw. It's just as simple as that. You can't say that about kim, justine. The real top ten should be the other 9 players plus Daniela at the moment. Pick Dokic against anyone of the real top ten players in a match, you would favour the other player. Pure and simple. But she is a top ten on paper.

Sam L
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:22 PM
It seems some people have blurred and biased opinions of Jelena because of her latest arguments/catfights with their favourites.

Look, I'm not a fan of Jelena, but if you're #5. You're #5. She deserves it. She did play the tennis to be here and has worked hard to be here.

-Sonic-
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:32 PM
I think by this time of year, people have forgotten the results of the previous autumn, post US Open.

Tier 1 win
Tier 2 win
Tier 1 final
Tier 2 final
Tier 2 final

This year's results aren't stunning, but add slam QF/4th round, Tier 3 win, tier 3 final (strasbourg, not madrid as stated above) to the results stated above and its a pretty high point earning total.

If she had gotten 1 or 2 of those high results this year instead of at the end of last year I doubt there'd be as much talk.

Because rankings are a 52 week system, points u earned 30 weeks ago still count. Therefore she belongs in the top 10.

The only 'rankings' you'll get which reflect up to the minute form are the subjective ones, such as ones in Volcana's recent thread.

tennisfun
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:34 PM
How do you know people consider Dokic's tennis level because of her arguments with their favorites? Are you a mind reader or psychic? I don't know she had any arguments/catfights with anyone except Martina.

-Sonic-
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:35 PM
She may not be playing like a top 10'er right this second, but IMHO last autumn she must have been playing top 5 tennis to get those results.

If you say its because of weak draws etc, then its not jelena's fault. She turned up at tier 1's when others didn't, and she beat the people who did turn up.

Hulet
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:45 PM
Yup, she worked hard for her #5 ranking and she definetly deserve it. Who said that a ranking has to be based solely on "quality but not quantity"? If you don't like her name listed at #5 in the ranking, don't blame Jelena but the rest of the top 10 players who are ranked below her; if they weren't so inconsistent, may be she wouldn't have been ranked as high as #5.

Williams Rulez
Jul 29th, 2002, 12:51 PM
I'm worried for her though... she's got a truckload of points to defend this fall...

She better hope that Lindsay is in the opposite half all the time... ;)

Bezz
Jul 29th, 2002, 01:36 PM
I agree with the thread starter she doesnt deserve to be in the top 5 or maybe top 10 on ability, but cos she plays so much of course she is gonna be in the top 10. She loses to the top players most of the time. This is similiar to when Martina Hingis was at the top of the rankings, most would agree she was there for so long cos she gained alot of points from being consistent and not for winning GS's. Jelena needs to cut out the lower events and concentrate more on the bigger events and beating the rest of the top 10 more times than she does.

babsi
Jul 29th, 2002, 02:04 PM
Dokic was one of the biggest beneficaries of the pull-outs of tournaments after September 11th where the bulk of her points come from.

Bahia - no pull-outs but must have been one of the weakest tier 2's in history.

Tokyo - Serena, Capriati and Monica all pulled out due to September 11th (not 100% sure that was the reason with Monica though).

Leipzig - when she draws a good player like Daniela she goes out.

Moscow - Venus and Davenport both pull out, and Hingis really out of sorts.

Zurich - no Serena and Hingis out with an injury sustained in Filderstadt. Both Davenport and Capriati in the bottom half.

Linz - Venus pulls out, a weak tier 2.

Yes Dokic showed up and took advantage of what happened and others didn't, but let's see if she gets similar results this year when the fields are much stronger, imo she will end the year at the bottom end of the top 10 or she could slip outside.

You can really say that she had only 2 good quality wins in that period, Kim in Tokyo and Elena in Moscow.

But just ask yourself this can you see Dokic as a threat for the title in San Diego or any of the events in the US hardcourt season?

Philip
Jul 29th, 2002, 02:24 PM
Jelena deserves to be in top 10 full stop.
Only the best 17 tournaments go towards your rank, so the other excess tournaments she plays are worth nothing, therefore in my eyes jelena is worthy of where she is now.

It doesn't matter if she got those points from weak tier 2's or from players pulling out, she still made those results.

Weldone Jelena :)

selesfan
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:38 PM
I'm not a big Jelena fan but she deserves to be in the top ten as much as any other player in the top ten, she won two tier 1 touranments last year and a couple of smaller tornaments this year.

Hermione
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:48 PM
I'm definitely not a Jelena fan in fact I'm quite the opposite and I have to agree no way is she superior to any of the top ten or some players ranked behind her *cough* Daniela *cough* and if she was truly deserving of the #5 spot then she would have a winning record agaibst at least 1 PLAYER in the top ten and even some below (Daniela again but there's more) I think that Kim's been hurt by the ranking systen this year and Jelena has undoubtedly been helped

Volcana
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:52 PM
Jelena is a top ten player. Only ten players on tour average over 100 points for every tournament they entered. Jelena is #10 on that list. Next is Hantuchova at 85 ppt. Not close. Jelena plays more, but she also earns more each tournament. And remember, she'd already won TIer I titles BEFORE Sept 11th. But check out the points per tournament.

#T - Number of tournaments played
Name - Name
ppt - Points per tournament

12 Serena Williams 479 ppt
14 Venus Williams 351 ppt
09 Lindsay Davenport 293 ppt
16 Jennifer Capriati 247 ppt
12 Martina Hingis 235 ppt

19 Monica Seles 206 ppt
20 Kim Clijsters 154 ppt
22 Justine Henin 137 ppt
18 Amelie Mauresmo 127 ppt
29 Jelena Dokic 106 ppt

14 Chanda Rubin 92 ppt

(Courtesy of Brian Stewart, natch. This is not
a surprise, Chanda is a former top ten player.)

25 Sandrine Testud 85 ppt
23 Daniela Hantuchova 85 ppt
25 Elena Dementieva 68 ppt
28 Silvia Farina Elia 60 ppt
27 Anastasia Myskina
25 Magdalena Maleeva
27 Daja Bedanova
22 Anna Smashnova
24 Meghann Shaughnessy

29 Anne Kremer
30 Tatiana Panova
22 Iva Majoli
23 Patty Schnyder
24 Nathalie Dechy
26 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
26 Tamarine Tanasugarn
20 Lisa Raymond
26 Ai Sugiyama
24 Alexandra Stevenson
24 Eleni Daniilidou
18 Paola Suarez
24 Barbara Schett
26 Elena Likhovtseva
25 Nicole Pratt
29 Rita Grande
18 Clarisa Fernandez
10 Nathalie Tauziat
21 Amanda Coetzer
24 Janette Husarova

Also note, she doesn't play a lot more than most players. She's plays more than most TOP TEN players. So is she ranked a bit, high? Probably. BUt she's solidly a top ten player. The players ranked below her simply haven't played as well. Hantuchova has a nice head-to-head vs Jelena, but Jelena plays the rest of the tour better.

sherry
Jul 29th, 2002, 04:30 PM
I believe Jelena has the talent to be in the top five consistently but the poor thing is going to burn herself out. She plays way too much. I watch her play and it looks as if she has the weight of the world on her shoulders. I could be wrong; hopefully it is just a look of intensity and concentration on her face. But, methinks her face is showing the signs of too much stress on someone far to young for all of that.

vutt
Jul 29th, 2002, 04:33 PM
hm, Volcano, interesting angle!
and I agree...

Beat
Jul 29th, 2002, 04:34 PM
who should be above her?
kim, justine, amelie: too inconsistent this year
lindsay, martina: injured

and that's not really jelena's fault, now is it?

i think she's a top 10 player, because i don't see anyone outside the top 10 who must be considered "definitely better than jelena".

TSequoia01
Jul 29th, 2002, 04:36 PM
Nice Stats Volcana! :cool:

BK4ever
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:28 PM
She deserve to be their because she earned the points, but I understand where ur cominf from. I find it insane that she plays that amount of tournaments. She will undoubtedly burn out soon if she continues. There is just no logic to her playing this much.

She has the talent base, but she needs a COACH to help her put it all together and then she will become a true FORCE. When I watch her play now, I feel she only has Plan A...hit hard hard harder. Anyway, only time will tell.

Fedcup
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by rhz
i think anybody has the right to play as many tournament as she wishes! if you think players ranked below her should be on top of her, then why not she/they play more tournament aswell.

personally i do believe she belongs up there, although 5 is too high. but hingis and davenport are injured, clijsters is not playing as good as last year, so does justine. and we are not seeing anybody who could pass her outside the top 10 real soon. Except maybe Hantuchova, but not in a few months!

so just except the reality! the ranking system is not the best, but that is the one we have.

Justine is not playing as good as last year? She beat Clijsters,Capriati, Seles and Serena Williams this year. SF at WI
5 finals against a williams sister. And now you. Are Dokic her performances better?

Aloysius
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:46 PM
I'll bet Jelena thinks she deserves the No. 5 ranking. Who gives a shit what the rest of you think? And if you truly care whether she burns out or not, why use that as a disguise to discredit everything she's earned in her tennis career?

Fedcup
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Sam L
It seems some people have blurred and biased opinions of Jelena because of her latest arguments/catfights with their favourites.

Look, I'm not a fan of Jelena, but if you're #5. You're #5. She deserves it. She did play the tennis to be here and has worked hard to be here.

Indeed she did play tennis. But I would not saying she did play THE tennis. I would ssay she did play tennis ALOT

Volcana
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:55 PM
I agree she needs to play way less. However, she needs to be WILLING to play less.

Notice that players 1-5 have fewer tournaments than player 6-10. Of course, Martina and Lindsay are so low because of injuries, but neither of them ever plays 20 tours a year. 18 is usually it.

Notice that the six multi-GS winners are ranked one though six. (I wish Arantxa was here to be #7.)

Playing LESS than the minimum clearly has benefits. IF you're already better than most of the tour. I don't think playing 15 tours a year will help Tatiana Panova make it to #1.

Fedcup
Jul 29th, 2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Beat
who should be above her?
kim, justine, amelie: too inconsistent this year
lindsay, martina: injured

and that's not really jelena's fault, now is it?

i think she's a top 10 player, because i don't see anyone outside the top 10 who must be considered "definitely better than jelena".

Justine too inconsistent? Oh what the hell. Compare her results with those from DOkic and you'll see the difference. If Justine did like Dokic playing every week you got many tournemants to win because the top players won't be there. You'll stay in your rithm etc.
Dokic should take it easier and do like the other top players do. Only playing with each other on the big events. Kim former coach said it all "The wta should reconsider the ranking system, there are some players who are playing every tourney possible to gain as much points as they can. It's not fait to the other players who plays better but less"

In my eyes they should consider an event like many sports do. A sort of World championship where the top players can only play in 16 tourneys a year. With the same points for every tourney with teh except of the GS where other players (outside top 30) may compete too

Brian Stewart
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:13 PM
You need to adjust your list, Volcana. Chanda has 92 ppt. And if you throw out that loss in Rome qualifying (which is a direct result of playing 19 sets in 6 days in her 1st tourney back from 6 months+ injury layoff), it rises to 99 ppt. Not too shabby when you consider she was never healthy last year, and hasn't been seeded this year until this week. :)
</salespitch>

Getting back to Jelena, she's where she is because she got the points. Medusa (the WTA rankings computer) is very cold-blooded. She doesn't care who was injured or absent or going through emotional trauma or whatever. She's a totally bottom line oriented system.
I do think Jelena's overplaying is having a detrimental effect on her game. When she made her breakthrough in upsetting Hingis at Wimbledon, she had more variety in her game. She came to net more, she served better. The excessive week-to-week grind has seemingly turned her into a more one-dimensional player. With so little time off, she only has time to work on the very basic elements of her game. Thus, other elements which could be added or improved have fallen by the wayside. She has more game than what she's been showing. It's just a shame that whoever's guiding her career isn't allowing her to develop fully.

kay
Jul 29th, 2002, 06:55 PM
Thanks for your comments.

babsi
Jul 29th, 2002, 08:26 PM
We will see what happens in the indoor season with Jelena this year.

IMO she won't win a tier 2 or above title this year, the best chances have past eg.Eastbourne.

If Jelena wins a tier 1 or 2 event this year beating at least 2 top 10 players then I am making a complete fool of myself here;)

Italian Open last year who did she really beat? The only notable player was Mauresmo in the final. Serena won the Italian Open this year and she beat Capriati and Henin.

She does take advantage of the opportunities given to her which some players didn't in the autumn season last year.

And her game won't change, that needs time and she won't be taking a break until the end of the year, and what changes did she make in the off-season last year and she had more time off than most of the other players.

I think the US Open match last year against Hingis summed up Dokic (and I watched the match and Hingis raised her level and I am not taking that whole Octagon represenative in the box story).

Richie77
Jul 30th, 2002, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by Seles


I thought Monica beat Chanda at Madrid....

She does belong in the top 10. If she plays 30 tournaments a year or 17...she's proven over the past 52 weeks, she's a top 10 player.


Whoops! That should be STRASBOURG, which was the same week as Madrid.

:rolleyes: at myself...it's corrected now.

Richie77
Jul 30th, 2002, 05:54 AM
Meanwhile, RE: Jelena at No. 5:

I actually think her being at No. 5 isn't so far-fetched.
First, consider her indoor season last year. She reached five finals, winning two. After Lindsay, she was the best player on the tour, in my opinion.
Now let's take a look at those ranked above her. Have they had spectacular years?
Serena - Duh.
Venus - Not as big a "Duh" as Serena, but still pretty good.
Jennifer - Australian Open winner, Roland Garros semis, Wimbledon QF...not bad
Monica - a couple wins, SF at Oz, QF at Wimbledon and RG. Also very consistent...no first-match losses.
As for those ranked below Jelena:
Henin - Win at Berlin, over Serena no less, SF at Wimbledon. But: bad loss at RG. She's the only player who I think would have a legitimate claim to the Top 5 before Jelena.
Kim - SF at Oz, but after that, has kind of gone away. Bad losses at both RG and Wimbledon, only one win, a couple of other bad losses at Tier I events.
Hingis - great start to the year, but injured ever since. Maybe, based on January-February results, she could claim a Top 5 spot. But you can't base an entire year on two good months alone.
Lindsay - can't count her in yet.
Amelie - SF at Wimbledon, one Tier II win, so not a bad year. But she, too, has some bad losses.

It is true that once the fall season kicks in, Jelena will have some trouble keeping No. 5, and will probably lose it. But as of right now, for the summer months, Jelena is deserving of the spot.

Jericho
Jul 30th, 2002, 07:12 AM
for now jelena is #5, but consider this...only 8/17 of her tourneys played this year were counted in her best of 17...the other 9 came from the US Open and autumn tournaments (w/ the exception of pilot pen) which most (not all) americans skipped because of sept. 11 and that accounts for half the top ten...she took advantage of the depleted fields and since this year more of the top ten are playing the post US Open tournaments we will see jelena's year end ranking and that will count the most...

dokic_rocks
Jul 30th, 2002, 07:19 AM
You are right jelena does not belong in top 10 she belongs top 5!!!:)

dokic_rocks
Jul 30th, 2002, 07:21 AM
You are right jelena does not belong in top 10 she belongs in top 5!!!

~RedRose~
Jul 30th, 2002, 07:33 AM
Some of you are saying Jelena cannot beat the top players ... but Jelenas quality points total higher than Justines and just below Kims. She is also ahead of Martina Amelie & Daniella who is about 300 points behind her.

Beat
Jul 30th, 2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Fedcup


Justine too inconsistent? Oh what the hell. Compare her results with those from DOkic and you'll see the difference. If Justine did like Dokic playing every week you got many tournemants to win because the top players won't be there. You'll stay in your rithm etc.


I didn't say justine had a bad year. she had some amazing results. but she had some bad losses as well, and since she doesn't play as much as jelena, that shows in her ranking points. that's all I tried to say.

Williams Rulez
Jul 30th, 2002, 09:50 AM
Volcana is right... she plays a lot more, but it doesn't matter, cause she does earn alot more a tournament than the rest of the tour outside the top 10.

And mind you, it is not easy to play THAT many tournaments a year and still do well at so many of them

King Aaron
Jul 30th, 2002, 12:35 PM
yup Volcana is right !!