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View Full Version : A really subjective top ten that makes slightly more sense


Volcana
Jul 28th, 2002, 12:57 PM
01 5742 Serena Williams 12 tournaments
02 4976 Venus Williams 14 tournaments

03 3947 Jennifer Capriati 16 tournaments

The concensus third-best player
in the world. Then Amelie
dropped the bomb on her at Wimbledon.
Well, Amelie's a top ten player.

04 2859 Kim Clijsters 20

She should have shut it down two
months ago. Every indication is
she's still in pain and its
affecting her play. She's beaten
ONE top ten player since Hamburg.
Sandrine Testud.

QF 's-Hertogenbosch
32 Roland Garros
64 Wimbledon

Do we need to draw you a map, girl?

Beat Lindsay at Stanford. I'll shut up now.
That's the top 4. Here's the rest. A lot of these players have had some inexplicable loss dropped on them.
05 2592 Lindsay Davenport 9 tournaments

Stanford Kim d Lindsay at Stanford
4-6 6-4 6-2.
Nice return to action for LD thought.

06 2814 Hingis 12

The Hantuchova loss at IW.
On top of all the other losses to top ten
players in the last year.
Three wins over Monica
Hope she plays the US Open.

07 3005 Justine Henin 23

Illness and injury. But two
of her last three four tournaments
have been 1st round losses.
Just beat Monica so I have to put her ahead
of her.

08 3898 Monica Seles 19

I didn't see Lisa Raymond coming.
3 wins over top ten players in 2002.
8 losses to top ten players in 2002.
2 losses to NON-top ten players in 2002.
1 win over Hantuchova

09 3048 Jelena Dokic 29

Three losses to Kremer
Two losses to Hantuchova
Loss to Farina-Elia
Loss to Smashnova
Loss to Myskina
Loss to Bedanova

You all are right, and I'm wrong.
All my defenses of her at #5 was marginal.

10 2285 Mauresmo 18

Suspending judgement til I get
over what she said at Wimbledon.
The QFs of a GS is the QFs, though.

11 1951 Hantuchova 23

I can't take away Indian Wells.
The record since

Miami 64 L BLACK 6-4 4-6 2-6
Amelia Island 32 L HUSAROVA 4-6 6-3 1-6
Charleston 32 L PIERCE 3-6 4-6
Hamburg QF L HINGIS 5-7 4-6
Berlin QF L SMASHNOVA 6-1 2-6 3-6
Rome 64 L MYSKINA 4-6 4-6
Roland Garros 16 L SELES 4-6 5-7
Eastbourne SF L MYSKINA 2-6 1-6
Wimbledon QF L WILLIAMS 3-6 2-6

12 1711 Dementieva 25

Can beat virtually anyone on tour.
Can't win a tournament.
No threat to win a GS.
A threat to near anyone.

irma
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:07 PM
I agree with this list only I am not so sure about Martina right now, she would probarly be up there if she would play but she doesn't so I would put her below Justine and Monica at this moment!

Mark43
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:10 PM
This doesn't make any sense to me.

Volcana
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:12 PM
I think my #5-#8 could be safely re-arranged in almost any order.

-Sonic-
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:14 PM
Well it takes some time for the slower among us.

Volcana, I think its great how you can change ur opinions with the results as they come, and not be stuck into one frame of mind (e.g. she's better than her..... forever) that many people have.

Volcana
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:15 PM
If the previous thread not only made no sense, but actively increased confusion, it wold be possible for THIS thread to make MORE sense, and still make NO sense. Perfectly 'sensible', eh? :)

babsi
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:16 PM
What bad losses has Davenport had this year?

Also Kim beats Davenport in Stanford but her bad form is forgotten because of this, when Dokic's and Justine's are still mentioned.

Mauresmo has a tier 2 title to her name, and also one semi, one quarter and a 4th round in Grand Slams this year. Wins over Monica and Capriati, I would put her over Dokic.

Mark43
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:22 PM
Yes, and it usually takes just a wee bit longer for the fatter among us as well.
Putting Monica Seles at number 8 when she has made the quarters or better at every slam this year doesn't gel...like the way fat gels.

-Sonic-
Jul 28th, 2002, 01:45 PM
i had forgotten for momo it was a W'don SF.

Volcana
Jul 28th, 2002, 02:35 PM
Mark35 - Here's Monica's record in 2002. All the wins over players on this list vs All 2002 losses

Australian Open QF W V.WILLIAMS 6-7 6-2 6-3
Australian Open SF L HINGIS 6-4 1-6 4-6
Toray Pan Pacific FR L HINGIS 6-7 6-4 3-6
Paris QF W HENIN 6-4 6-3
Paris SF L DOKIC 3-6 6-3 4-6
Dubai SF L MAURESMO 4-6 3-6
Indian Wells SF L HINGIS 3-6 2-6
Miami QF W CLIJSTERS 4-6 6-3 6-3
Miami SF L CAPRIATI 6-4 3-6 6-7
Charleston 16 L FORETZ 4-6 6-7
Roland Garros 16 W HANTUCHOVA 6-4 7-5
Roland Garros QF L V.WILLIAMS 4-6 3-6
Wimbledon QF L HENIN 5-7 6-7
Stanford QF L RAYMOND

Venus won the last time they played
Jennifer won the last time they played.
Justine won the last time they played.
Jelena won the last time they played.
Martina won the last time they played
Amelie won the last time they played.

Monica beat Kim the last time they played, but Kim is in the Stanford final now, Monica lost in the QFs to a player outside the top 20.
She beat Daniela the last time they played, and I ranked her ahead of her.
Maybe Lindsay shouldn't be ahead of her.
If Monica was in the Stanford final right now, I'd probably have her #3.
If Kim wins Stanford, I'll probably make he co-#2 with Venus.

It's not cast in stone. More like badly cured concrete.

disposablehero
Jul 28th, 2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by babsi
What bad losses has Davenport had this year?


Well, I mean seriously we know that Lindsay hasn't had half a dozen bad losses this year, but she hasn't had half a dozen quality wins either. Her year basically consists of a win over the world #6 and a loss to the world #5.

babsi
Jul 28th, 2002, 02:48 PM
So shouldn't Davenport be up there with a question mark?

You can't judge her on only one tournament back.

But I was saying that about Davenport because Volcana put her in the bad loss group.

treufreund
Jul 28th, 2002, 04:38 PM
Hingis beat Clijsters earlier this year and had four match points in a Grand Slam, won Tokyo and was in the finals of Indian Wells. Why is Clijsters ahead of her especially given her early round losses this year? I mean if you are basing it on injuries then fine but for the time that Hingis was physically able to play she did better than Kim. Davenport I would not necessarily put ahead of Hingis either just yet since she did lose to Kim and has only played one tournament. I am not saying Davenport is not deserving of being a subjective #5 but it's too early to say. She basically has not played. Also Justine made it to the Wimbledon SEMIS, beat Serena in the finals of a Tier 1, made it to the finals of another Tier 1, had Venus totally on the ropes at Amelia Island, made it to the FINALS of two other tournaments and EASILY BEAT CLIJSTERS in their last match. So I don't see how she could be behind CLIJSTERS. Several of her losses have been do to a seriously high fever or a broken finger, etc.


Sorry Volcana about picking your SUBJECTIVE list to death. It just shocks me given the facts that you would put Kim ahead of Justine or Martina. For that matter Monica beat her the last time they played and has had better results at all three of the Grand Slams and at the Ericsson.

treufreund
Jul 28th, 2002, 04:46 PM
I find your thinking a little strange. Clijsters had not great results in the Grand Slams or at the Tier I's so far this year. You would make her possibly #2??? I guess I just don't understand the concept of having some "bad" losses as being the main criterion.

Hopefully you are not taking this personally Volcana. Just find your thinking a bit strange on first Dokic and now Kim. And I really really like Kim. I like Kim more than Monica actually but would still put Monica ahead. Yes Monica has had some bad losses but has done better at the bigger events and has accumulated more points. Hingis and Henin have outperformed kim also (when they have been able to play.)

Monica_Rules
Jul 28th, 2002, 04:52 PM
I'd say

1.Serena
2.Venus
3.Jenny
4.Lindsay
5.Kim(she might have beaten lindsay but bar that has had a crap year)Monica should be above her but after Stanford pfffffff
6.Monica
7.Henin
8.Hingis
9.Mauresmo
10.Dokic

DEETHELICK
Jul 28th, 2002, 05:01 PM
As Volcana said, his list is purely subjective.

It is based on his perception of results, performances, etc. You can argue with his reasoning, but the bottom line is that it is 'his' list.

The whole point of this thread is to debate and maybe create your own Top 10. It always interesting to see how people would rank today's players.

Anyways my Top 10:

1) Serena
2) Venus
3) Jennifer
4) Martina
5) Monica
6) Justine
7) Lindsay
8) Kim
9) Amelie
10) Jelena

I have revised my list in comparison to the earlier post of Top 12. Acura Classic will have a HUGE impact on this Top 10.

irma
Jul 28th, 2002, 05:03 PM
Kimmy had a crap wimbledon and french open.
she was in the semis in australia, won hamburg and reached two other semis so it's not that stanford is her first good result this year!
afterall she was still in the year top 10 even before stanford!

disposablehero
Jul 28th, 2002, 05:21 PM
Truefreund, why does it SHOCK you to have Kim ahead of Justine? Because Justine won Berlin? I really don't see anything else big in her favour. Certainly the difference between Kim and Justine is a matter of opinion, not at all a matter of "shock".

Jericho
Jul 28th, 2002, 06:01 PM
If everyone were healthy and played the same number of tournaments...
1 - Serena
2 - Venus
*Everyone below will beat most of the people under them for the exception of maybe one player
3 - Lindsay
4 - Monica
5 - Justine
6 - Jennifer
7 - Hingis
8 - Kim
9 - Daniela
10 - Amelie
*Dokic somewhere between 11-20, because she doesnt have winnig record against anyone in the top ten...

treufreund
Jul 28th, 2002, 07:22 PM
dh,

don't get your panties in an uproar over the word "shocked". Maybe not the right word but it's a matter of opinion like you said and there's no need to nitpick my post. Justine made it to the semis of Wimby and has been in more finals I believe. She also beat Kim the last time they played, has a win over Serena, two wins over Capriati and a win over Seles. Kim has not beaten any of those players.

disposablehero
Jul 28th, 2002, 07:53 PM
truefreund, didn't you yourself admit to nitpicking Volcana's list?

Kim has beaten Lindsay twice, Martina once. Justine never and never. Justine had a lot more shots at Monica than Kim did, and finally got her on the most advantageous surface. Plus of course we can talk about Kim's winning head to heads against Justine and Jelena.

treufreund
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:44 AM
yes i was nitpicking so I wasn't aware that you needed to point that out to me again or be sarcastic about my word choice.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 29th, 2002, 03:54 AM
You guys are too funny. It's like Abbot and Costello.

Williams Rulez
Jul 29th, 2002, 10:54 AM
I agree with dh... Kim has better than Justine in 2 slams this year, of 3. And don't you worry, after the hardcourt season, Kim will definitely be ahead of Justine. And not to mention, Justine has lost how many matches to Venus this year? At least Kim won 1 match. And if it were that shocking, then Justine wouldn't be a measely one ranking spot ahead of Kim in the real rankings.

lukehingis
Jul 29th, 2002, 11:55 AM
I agree with DEETHELICK....

Hingis for sure ahead of Kim, Monica, Justine and Lindsay (who hasn't played more than 1 tournment in 2002)...the top 4 players based on performance shd be based on grandslam finalish which are Serena, Venus, Jenn then Martina. Actually Jenn shd be 2 since she won a slam. Serena will be the no. 1 unless she loses every match for the remainder of 2002 which is unlikely. Monica has 1 SF and 2 QF and slams which beat Kim and Justine. Top 5 based on mainly on slam performances but not totally counting out other events:
AO FO Wim
1. Serena - W W plus 2 tier 1 and
2. Venus QF F F No tier 1 but 3 tier 2
3. Jenifer W SF QF no other title hence 3 despite winning AO
4. Martina F - - 1 tier 1
5. Monica SF QF QF 2 tier 3
6. Justine QF 1r SF 1 tier 1 with win over s williams
7. Amelie QF 4r SF won dubai (consistant slam performer
8. Kim SF 3r 3r 1 tier 2 with win over venus
9. Daniela 3r 4r QF 1 tier 1 beat martina
10.Lindsay - - - didn't play any GS and only 1 tournament but ended 2001 #1 so based on that she is 10

lukehingis
Jul 29th, 2002, 11:56 AM
I agree with DEETHELICK....

Hingis for sure ahead of Kim, Monica, Justine and Lindsay (who hasn't played more than 1 tournment in 2002)...the top 4 players based on performance shd be based on grandslam finalish which are Serena, Venus, Jenn then Martina. Actually Jenn shd be 2 since she won a slam. Serena will be the no. 1 unless she loses every match for the remainder of 2002 which is unlikely. Monica has 1 SF and 2 QF and slams which beat Kim and Justine. Top 5 based on mainly on slam performances but not totally counting out other events:
AO FO Wim
1. Serena - W W plus 2 tier 1 and
2. Venus QF F F No tier 1 but 3 tier 2
3. Jenifer W SF QF no other title hence 3 despite winning AO
4. Martina F - - 1 tier 1
5. Monica SF QF QF 2 tier 3
6. Justine QF 1r SF 1 tier 1 with win over s williams
7. Amelie QF 4r SF won dubai (consistant slam performer
8. Kim SF 3r 3r 1 tier 2 with win over venus
9. Daniela 3r 4r QF 1 tier 1 beat martina
10.Lindsay - - - didn't play any GS and only 1 tournament but ended 2001 #1 so based on that she is 10

but everyone is subjected their own views but I think my ranking is quite clear and based on 2002 performances

by the way notice how daniela is improving after each slam...she'll prob get SF of US Open...

lukehingis
Jul 29th, 2002, 11:58 AM
sorry for posting 2 times...pressed wrong button

bello
Jul 31st, 2002, 06:24 AM
Here is my version. You are all being too harsh on Monica..a month or two ago she was flavour of the week and everyone was giving her no.3! Anyway, kinda understand i guess, anyway here's mine...

1. Serena Williams
2. Venus Williams
3. Jennifer Capriati
4. Lindsay Davenport
5. Monica Seles
6. Martina Hingis (prob higher but has not played for so long)
7. Justine Henin
8. Kim Clijsters (It was Lindsays first tournament back for goodness sake!)
9. Amelie Mauresmo
10. Jelena Dokic (only cos she is slumping a bit)
11. Daniela Hantuchova
12. Chanda Rubin
13. Anastasia Myksina (or maybe Elena D, close gap here)
14. Elena Dementieva
15. Iva Majoli, Silvia Farina, Maggie Maleeva, Anna Smashnova???

bis2806
Aug 1st, 2002, 03:11 AM
lukehingis, you can't just rank Lindsay in the 10th position?! That's ridiculous.... i mean... she's made a great comeback at Stanford beating Jelena in straight sets and was virtually winning the semis up at 4-2 in the 2nd set... and also u have to base your predictions on the players' performance last year.... you can't just say oh this player has only played so and so tournaments and therefore is not capable of achieving better results... I think Lindsay's looking strong now.... in fact, very much...

anyways... this is my predicition.... i should be roughly reflected by october/november:

1. Serena
2. Venus
3. Lindsay
4. Capriati
5. Seles
6. Henin
7. Clijsters
8. Martina H.
9. Daniela
10. Jelena D.

disposablehero
Nov 12th, 2002, 02:51 AM
bump

WhatTheDeuce
Nov 12th, 2002, 04:02 AM
My top ten:

1) Serena
2) Venus
3) Lindsay
4) Monica :)
5) Jenn jenn
6) Kim Clijsters
7) Mauresmo
8) Henin
9) Dokic :)
10) Hingis / Hantuchova

COMING SOON....KOURNIKOVA