View Full Version : For Sale: Tier I Tournament

Jul 24th, 2002, 04:34 PM

Looks like another German tournament is going down the toilet...

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:03 PM
WOW! MONICA WILL BE SOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY! To me, this is great news (though not as awesome as Hamburg being cancelled). I wonder where it will go? Maybe they can have it in the US, but it will probably go to Spain or Portugal.

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:04 PM
OMG thats like 3 already this year...

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:36 PM
all German events are in real deep trouble

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:37 PM
Maybe to Antwerp.

It had the greatest tennis indoor attendance last year. And that was only on its debut. The organizers said then to make it bigger

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:38 PM
They are in trouble but these are just rumours yet.

Officials try to safe the 2 top-events (men-Hamburg and women-Berlin).

Berlin can go either way as it seems. :(

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:39 PM
I hope someone from Spain buys the tournament, because clay courts are so numerous there, and there really isn't a big women's tournament in Spain. They could probably hold it in Barcelona, where there was a big tournament before.

Jul 24th, 2002, 05:40 PM
The way I read it, they're just looking for a new sponsor. I highly doubt they'll move the tourney.

Jul 24th, 2002, 06:54 PM
Vanity :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: I hope it comes to Barcelona

mboyle - to Portugal? :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jul 24th, 2002, 06:58 PM
Hmm....it doesn't look like the sponsor is in trouble, but that the tournie is going bye-bye.

Spain or Belgium seem the most probable candidates. My vote's for Spain :)

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 24th, 2002, 08:20 PM
I think Berlin should move to Antwerp

Hamburg should move to the USA :D

Frau Antje
Jul 24th, 2002, 08:30 PM
nooooooooooooooooooooo, please :confused:

Jul 24th, 2002, 09:24 PM
What about Greece? Clay Tier I for another couple of years before Olympics could be helpful.. Or Kiev, Ukraine. St-Peterburg. Prague.

Jul 24th, 2002, 09:44 PM
Do the Eastern European countries have the money to buy a tier 1? If germany can't keep it i'm doubting the ukraine can.

Spain is in desperate need for a big WTA event. best they have is a tier 3. Although when things like the fed cup final draw crowds of about 12, maybe theres a reason why they don't have any bigger.

the usa has more than enough already. some people's answers to everything is make it american. i would say germany also had more than enough, so its good theres some re-shuffling.

Jul 24th, 2002, 09:46 PM
I think it'll go to spain to Barcelona where they play that big mens event.

Jul 24th, 2002, 09:49 PM
Spain is a good idea -- also St. Petersburg if there's money enough to pay for it, and interest enough to justify it. But there's so many good Russian players there should be more than one tournament there.
But for a clay Tier I -- Spain or Portugal are good ideas.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:08 PM
Yes, certainly, the USA has got enough already. Maybe Spain, it deserves a bigger profile WTA tournament than the two it has now.
Personally, I think it's bad that the African continent doesn't have a full WTA tournament. So I'd like to see South Africa get one.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 24th, 2002, 10:16 PM
USA needs more events where there are none right now --

for example:

New Orleans
Kansas City
St. Louis

even the Canadians need some --

All these events would do well, as most US events sell out.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:26 PM
Not for North America, that's for sure. They have a Slam, Masters and 4 Tier Is. I.e. 6 big events out of 14. That's already too many.

No African country , including South Africa, have money for Tier I., leave alone the fact that the only reasonable timeslot for a South African event would be somewhere around IW, Miami.

I am pretty sure that if there will be an available high tier event, China would be eager to buy it. But who'd go to China in May?

Spain looks a logical choice, but the question is - why didn't they ever try to get a high tier event? The biggest claycourt country in tennis has no big event neither in ATP nor in WTA. I suspect, it is not a problem of getting it, it is probably a problem of making it profitable..

Portugal, I think it is out of question, not enough interest.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:33 PM
If you want more USA diversity, move the many california ones around the country.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:40 PM
How about Switzerland? That'd be good. increasing interest overall with Casanova, MGM, Hingis, Schnyder, and Federer on the mens. And with teh Austrian Fed Cup team doing so well.

I think that one could work really well.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:43 PM
oooh austria. . .

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:44 PM
I'm still bitter about Advanta moving away from Philly.

But I agree, the US tournaments need to move away from SoCal.

Jul 24th, 2002, 10:56 PM
How about Switzerland? That'd be good. increasing interest overall with Casanova, MGM, Hingis, Schnyder, and Federer on the mens. And with teh Austrian Fed Cup team doing so well.

Switzerland is not a big country. And they already have a Tier I. That's enough.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 24th, 2002, 10:59 PM
ys - it's not about divying out the tournaments to make it fair for all, it's about putting the tournaments where they are most profitable.

Right now, I only see Belgium and the USA (and maybe Canada) the 3 countries that could really do a Tier I justice. :)

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:04 PM
Ahh but why should the USTA get all the profit from these tournaments?

How does Japan do crowd-wise?

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:16 PM
Switzerland or Belgium would be the best place in terms of having players who go far into a tournament (Switzerland with Hingis and Casanova; Belgium with Henin and Clijsters). The German events are suffering because there isn't a German player who can go far in a Tier 1 or II event consistently. And the same can now be said for Spain. So would Spain be a good place to hold a Tier 1 event?

I think the US could use a women's red clay event (like the men have in Houston.)

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by spiceboy
Vanity :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: I hope it comes to Barcelona

mboyle - to Portugal? :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What are the portugese not fans of tennis? I really don't know anything about their tennis program except that (yes I realize how ignorant this sounds) Portugal is close to Spain. Thus they must be at least slight tennis fans and must have mostly clay courts. Belgium already has two events. What about having a joint event in Monte Carlo the week of the Women's German Open, and a joint event the next week in Rome? I would like that arrangement! Also, you could change the Tokyo Tier One to a Tier Two, and Upgrade Antwerp to a Tier One. Finally, Sydney should be upgraded to a Tenth Tier One.

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:28 PM
Maybe they should move it to AUSTRALIA!!! :kiss:

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:32 PM
ys - it's not about divying out the tournaments to make it fair for all, it's about putting the tournaments where they are most profitable.

If it would be the case, all events would be divided between NYC and California. Zurich is doing just fine as Tier I. Moscow is the biggest indoor combine event with 18K crowd for last three days. Rome is doing just fine. Tokyo's only problem is that they are being ignored by Williamses and Capriati. But they have no problem filling the stands.. The only Tier I reporting problems is Berlin, and only because there are no prominent German players at this moment.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 24th, 2002, 11:50 PM
I agree with everything you said ys.

Japan does fill the stands at the tournaments, so perhaps it could use another Tier I. And I think they can handle all the advertising, television, etc. it takes to run one of those.

I don't think Switzerland, Russia, or even Italy could handle another Tier I. It would be neat to see them try, but I think it would be MUCH more successfull if it went to USA or Belgium.

BTW - I think more tournaments should be in the USA...but again, just a biased opinion from me. :)

Jul 24th, 2002, 11:51 PM
Oh About the US having "too many" events, I say North America (on the Women's side at least) should have around half the events. This being because the top 4 are American, the past 12 Grand Slam Winners I consider in some way American (Mary Pierce grew up in and learned tennis in the US, and speaks English as her first language) and most US Events sell out wheras not all the European ones do. My Ideal Tier One/GS/Championship schedule would be:
Miami- Mid January (Rebound Ace after resurfacing)
Sydney- Early February (Rebound Ace)
Melbourne- Mid February (Rebound Ace)
Rome- Mid March (Clay)
Switzerland (any city)- Early April (Clay)
Brussels- Early May (Clay)
Paris- Mid May (Clay)
Halle/s'Hertogenboesh (sp?)- Mid June (Grass)
Wimbledon- Late June (Grass)
Houston- Mid July (Hard Court)
Toronto- Early August (Hard Court)
New York- Mid/Late August (Hard Court)
Chicago- Mid September (Indoor)
Denver- Early October (Indoor)
Los Angeles- Mid October (Indoor)

I don't think that players like Indian Wells anymore, so I dropped it from my list. Other notable events:
Seattle, San Francisco, Saddlebrook (as so many players live there), Montreal, Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Hong Kong, Bali/Jarkarta (Angie Widjaja should make it real big over there in a couple of years) I just don't understand why there are not more US events. It is mind boggling!

Jul 25th, 2002, 12:04 AM
The events in southern California do a hell of a lot of business, because that area is a tennis hotbed with lots of wealthy people! Basically it's all about money. However, with Steffi Graf and Anke Huber retired, the German tournaments are losing money. Personally I think Spain would be the best and most logical choice, because it's had bigger WTA tournaments before and there have been some great Spanish players in recent years (even if they're past their primes now). Barcelona would be the best choice as I'm sure they already have a good tennis facility. My question for them though is this: why didn't it work before? I think a tournament in Belgium could do decently, but only when Henin and Clijsters are playing. Since both have many years left, this could be a worthwhile investment.

Jul 25th, 2002, 12:05 AM
You can't expect players not from the US to spend half their year in America, just as you can't expect US players to be in Europe half their lives.

Jul 25th, 2002, 12:47 AM
I don't understand the logic of giving a big event to Belgium just because Justine and Kim are currently hot and in the top ten. What happens 10 years from now when there is no Justine or Kim and possibly no other Belgians to fill their shoes? Are we just going to keep shuffling tier 1s around Europe until we land in a country that has a hot player at the moment?

Many other countries have sustained large tournaments even if their national players aren't popular and/or highly ranked. It's truly a shame that Germany can't seem to do the same. Just a few years ago, Germany was responsible for something like 75% of all tennis broadcasts in the world and now they can't even sell tickets to their own events. The dropoff after Steffi's retirement is really astounding! Good luck, if Germany is waiting around for another Steffi to revive interest in the sport.

And don't be so quick to pull events out of southern California. All the events do quite well here, particularly the Acura here in SD, which continues to break attendance records each year and is repeatedly voted by the players as one of their favorite tournaments. Plus, California (especially SoCal) has produced and/or developed some of the greatest players of all time: Ashe, Connors, Sampras, McEnroe, Billie Jean King, Tracy Austin, Lindsay Davenport, Venus and Serena...you get the idea. So, I think we're deserving of a couple of large events. Of course, I'm not at all biased on the subject. ;)

Jul 25th, 2002, 01:28 AM
We must consider that if Berlin goes, the replacement should be on clay, and in Europe.

Considering that they wanted to have two two weeks events like Indian Wells/Key Biscayne in Europe, they need to choose a place with the capacity for that, both financially and with the facilities.

I think that Rome will be one of the events to be held jointly with the ATP, the options to replace Berlin would be then, IMO Spain, France or maybe Vienna (although I don't think it's big enough).

If it's just a tier 1 but not a joint event, they could hold it in Monaco, they have the facilities but they are not big enough for a joint event, but it would be perfect for the women alone.

I agree that many eastern european countries, though they deserve it, wouldn't be able to finance it.

About the US, they have way too many tournaments and if they get another tier 1 would be like making the WTA an exclusively american federatation, if they do that, I can see the WTA splitting with the European players making a league on their own, 1 GS, the year end championship, 3 tier 1's and 6 tier 2's is already abusive.

Jul 25th, 2002, 01:41 AM
I say they give Spain the Hamburg event, make Rome the two-week event they're talking about, and put the tier one in France(after all, every other Slam has lead up events in its country).

Jul 25th, 2002, 06:43 AM
For Sale? I'll give you 7 dollars Canadian for it.

Jul 25th, 2002, 06:49 AM
Actually, if they are talking about a "2 week" event like the American ones, keep in mind that they are actually more like a week and a half.

My suggestion:

Somehow, some way, convince Rome to have a Tuesday Final. There has to be some way to sell that. Wipe out the Madrid and Strasbourg events, and have Madrid or Bacelona replace Berlin in the week previous to Rome. You could have the Rome Semis on Sunday, and lots of Doubles on Monday. Would be radical, but sometimes you need to take chances to try and grow the game.

Jul 25th, 2002, 01:15 PM
Well I'll certainly miss Berlin, I have many happy memories from my 2 trips there in recent years :(

Jul 25th, 2002, 01:21 PM
Move it to Belgium, people there seem to care about their tennis

Jul 25th, 2002, 02:10 PM
People are forgetting Rio :cool: :wavey:

Jul 25th, 2002, 03:47 PM
I think that USA should have a red clay event, but not as addition, but rather as a replacement. Green Clay should go. It is an awkward, slippery surface with a lot of injuries coming on it. ATP finally got rid of it. WTA should do the same. And have a red clay Tier I instead of Charlestone. Amelia Island and Sarasota should also move to red clay, just like Houston did.
Tier I on grass as a replacement for Berlin would be ideal. For instance, upgrade of Eastbourne.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 25th, 2002, 04:55 PM
Yes, I have long thought Eastbourne should be a Tier I....

And I have hated green clay until this year (when Venus won on it) ;)

Jul 25th, 2002, 05:13 PM
I was thinking about monaco as well. it's pretty close to spain. and it could attract all the french fans (I assume here that france produces good players consistently), but crucially it is NOT france, where they have a slam.
as for switzerland: of course zurich is a big tournament, and they failed with the tournament in basel, so obviously there is no space for a 2nd tournie. but maybe that just concerns the german speaking part of switzerland, meaning that a city like geneva (french speaking part) could be a good idea.

Williams Rulez
Jul 26th, 2002, 10:18 AM
Spain should buy it... they need a huge tournament... :)

Jul 26th, 2002, 02:05 PM
I agree Williams_ Rulez

Jul 26th, 2002, 02:18 PM
I think they should relocate it to the Barnet Tennis Club (new members always welcome) which is up the road from my garage ! :p

Jul 26th, 2002, 06:10 PM
Eastbourne is a very good idea though...tennis is coming home--on grass!