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Volcana
Jul 22nd, 2002, 06:33 PM
Werthiem's om a roll this week. LMAO

My friends and I long have been fans of your columns, until recently. We all want to ask you this question, and please don't feel obligated to respond. How much does the Williams family pay you every month to defend them publicly time and time again? Please don't take this the wrong way, but recently you come across as one of their obsessed fans rather then a respected journalist.

P.S. I'll understand if this question doesn't make it into the column next week.
óDavid, Virginia

Again, this is an equal opportunity 'Bag. You don't have to agree with me to get your communique published. The raft of Williams fans who often accuse me being too critical of Venus and Serena will get a kick out of your submission. (Just this week, Cynthia Yost of Page, Ariz., labeled me a "racist," adding, "I'm sorry you find the Williamses so boring. Personally, I'd pay good money to watch one of them chase you around the court with a racket.")

In the past I've taken my shots at the House of Williams, particularly for the dubious withdrawals and for Richard's hostile comments and conduct. But overall it's pretty hard to take serious issue with Venus and Serena lately. Their tennis has been unimpeachable. Even the diehard Jennifer Capriati fans seem to have conceded that, at the moment, the sisters are a cut above the field. They've gone to great lengths to dial back their perceived arrogance, and their on-court behavior is pretty much beyond reproach. With Richard (thankfully) under the radar and their mother, Oracene, projecting class and calm, they have steered free of controversy. (If saying all that makes me an obsessed fan, so be it.)

Also, anyone else amused by the arc of the criticism against them? First, They're not as good as they think they are (Martina Hingis, inter alia, Key Biscayne 1997; Anna Kournikova, Wimbledon 1997.). Then, They're good, but, man, they're arrogant (1998-99). Then, They're good but they don't play enough to be considered great (2000-01). Now that they're indisputably the dominant forces in the women's game, They've suddenly become boring. And, by the way, Their matches might be fixed.

I'm not prepared to make the blanket statement that it's because of race, but, at least among Mailbag readers, I get a distinct sense that they're held to a higher standard of conduct and decorum. Consider questions like this (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32555):

Ryan
Jul 22nd, 2002, 06:38 PM
Really interesting how different people can see such different sides of someone.

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 22nd, 2002, 06:41 PM
How right you are Ryan...Kinda make you think ugh?

Bella
Jul 22nd, 2002, 06:44 PM
In 1997, 'They're not as good as they think they are' would have been correct. It's silly to try to apply that to 99 on and hold someone up to ridicule or criticism for saying something that was true at the time. Same with some of the other statements.

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 06:48 PM
Well, what with his picking a Williams to win every Slam since 2000 and his constant criticism of every other top player not named Lindsay Davenport, it makes you think. I would say he has American favoritism, but I don't remember him ever saying anything glowing about Capriati or Seles. As much as he likes to deny it (and I should point out, his response wasn't an outright denial), I challenge anyone to find the last mailbag where he didn't defend the Williams sisters. It will take you a little while. He usually gets one of these "pro-Williams" letters every few months. Notice no one ever accuses him of being pro-Hingis or pro-Capriati or pro-Seles? That's because he said Hingis is a doubles specialist who can't compete, Capriati is a spoiled brat with a bad mouth and additude, and Seles has as much chance of doing well at a Grand Slam as Glitter winning an Oscar.

I mean, he even found a way to defend Orecene Williams' hair! Saying Wertheim is pro-Williams is like saying the sky is blue or the Pope is Catholic: it's a no-brainer. I guess we'll just have to accept the fact that everyone, even (ahem) "journalists", have their biases.

Volcana
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:02 PM
Bella - They WERE as good as they thought they were. They said one day they'd be #1 and #2 and playing against each other in GS finals.

Wertheim isn't holding those people up to ridicule. Those people made THEMSELVES ridiculous. Those people made fools of THEMSELVES. In 1997, statements like 'They're not as good as they think they are', seemed motivated, AT BEST, by fear and jealousy. In 2002, wow, nothing seems to have changed in the motivation department. But the fortunes of their tennis playing critics have faded. There's a good reason for this. A player who loses a match and then whines about her opponent is a loser.

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:08 PM
This is so funny because I have always thought that this guy was against the William's sisters. I still dont think he is in favor of them, but you cant deny results, at least honest people cant. I mean even if you dont like someone you have to admit when they are good. For some of the people who dont like Venus and Serena they just cant seem to give them any credit. At first they criticized their game, then their attitudes, then their clothing, now their closely watching every action on court to see if they try to hit someone with the ball so they can label them rude or classless. It's pretty pitiful and sad, but what else can you expect from sick, sad, and sorry individuals.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:18 PM
Well said Volcana and Kay!

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:31 PM
Volcana, for someone who seems to be intelligent, I can't believe you don't understand the concept here. The Williams sisters thought they were great in 1997 but they clearly weren't. So anyone who said "they think they are better than they really are" was right. It's like saying Lindsay Davenport was overweight. She was. If I said that, back in 1997, she was overweight, only a fool would hold me accountable for that now, when she clearly isn't.

Ms. Lively
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:33 PM
He shows favoritism to Williams. He is biased. What happened to objective journalism?

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:34 PM
How do you know what they thought? They only stated that they were good enough to be the #1 in the world. But , why dont you go and post some of their comments just to prove your point.

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:37 PM
Ms. Lively, are you serious? What happened to objective journalism? It flew out the window once Serena and Venus entered the tour. Please, spare me. They get accused of everything but murder by journalists who are obviously biased and you ask NOW what happened to objective journalism......LMAO.

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:38 PM
Yes, I'll just go to www.WhatVenusSaidIn1997.com.

:rolleyes:

But if it pleases you so, I'll search for old interviews.

Dawn Marie
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:45 PM
LMAO@kay. Mrs Lively is so funny.

Werthim is like Lindsay trying to play both sides of the fence.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:47 PM
Being overweight can be proved by meausrements of height weight, body fat, etc etc. in otherwords a fact.

believing you are a great player is subjective and an opinion and thus cannot be claimed to be wrong unless you set some objective standards.

Like Venus always said, she believed she was the best in her mind and it didn't matter what the rankings were. In her mind she was the best.

tennischick
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:49 PM
i always thought too that Wertheim was anti-Williams. i think he has learnt to be politically correct and is now saying consistently nice things about them now -- it's become the thing to do to avoid being called a racist. also, i don't think he has any original compliments -- almost all of the nice statements he is now making could have been excerpted straight off this board, including the glowing comments about Oracene's hair...:o :o he is so derivative it's not even funny.

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:54 PM
If he's making those statements to keep from being called a racist...........uh.........it aint working.

Just this week, Cynthia Yost of Page, Ariz., labeled me a "racist," adding, "I'm sorry you find the Williamses so boring. Personally, I'd pay good money to watch one of them chase you around the court with a racket.")

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:58 PM
How is giving someone a compliment being derivative? Unless he knows the two ladies personally, which I somehow doubt, then all he has to go on is how they play their game and conduct themselves. The same behavior everyone elses sees as well, unless he's got some spy cam in the locker room.

Ugh it so sickinening to see people attack others for complimenting someone! Sheesh whats next, a bitch slap for shaking their hands?

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 07:59 PM
No, you dont have to go to there to please me, but if you want anyone to believe anything youre saying, at least have some quotes from her to prove your point. No, dont do that, I'll just take your word for it. You said it, it must be true.

tennischick
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:01 PM
Kay:
i saw that. and yes it isn't working

Cybelle:
he's derivative IMO bec he seems to steal most of his ideas from messageboards. that's my impression and i know that i am not alone in this. i am NOT saying that paying someone a compliment is derivative. re-read what i said and put away the gun. :p

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:03 PM
"a bitch slap for shaking their hands?"

Cybell, bitch slapping is good. As a matter of fact, I would love to bitch slap all those who said Venus and Serena would never do well at the French Open, but it's too late. It's true, the early bird gets all the worms.

Weevee
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:06 PM
People who have a change of heart when staring at the facts should be complimented for their honesty and when they write news columns they should be respected for their courage!

Pureracket
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:07 PM
ooo0ooo,
I'm sure Wertheim isn't the only one who picked the Williams sisters to win almost every slam since 2000. They've won 6 since then, so I'm not sure he is being as biased as he is objective and sensible.

You're right. He's not necessarily pro-Seles or pro-Capriati, but does that fact guarantee that he is Pro-Williams? In fact, check the archives of the Mailbag, and you will see where Wertheim has come out against the sisters for late withdrawals and poor interviewing etiquette.

There seems to be a segment of tennis fans who seem to think they are entitled to ownership of the sport of tennis as they are entitled to own everything else in this country, including the media.

From what you have written, it only seems that Wertheim might not be the biggest fans of some of the other players on the tour. What does that have to do with the Williams sisters?

Volcana
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:12 PM
o0O0o - Thank you. I'd really appreciate you posting some of those old interviews where Venus siad she was better than she was at the time. However, I should warn you that there was a whole thread called "Venus said it" devoted to all the negative things Venus had said about other players, and all the abusive and arroant things Venus had ever said. All people had to do was provide sources.

Not one single thing was posted.

So please, post something that shows VENUS saying something arrogant. Not some player who just got her head handed to her SAYING she's arrogant. But something she actually said. With source.

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:16 PM
TC, I understand exactly what you were saying. He does seem to lack originality. He also seems to dog the players when theyre down. Example, Hingis. This man only had nice things to say about Hingis before she began to slump, and now he is kicking her along with everyone else, with the exception of me becuase I kicked her constantly whether she was up or down.

But as far as Venus and Serena go, in the beginning he was critical because they didnt have the results, now that they have the results he is writing glowing reports. Personally, I have no respect for journalists, that's just me.

TSequoia01
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:19 PM
Boy I have been reading alot of symptons on these boards lately. They have been poping up on this thread and that thread. Venus said this in 97. Serena did this in 98. They did not thank this person in 94. Translation of what is really ailing folks, "Venus and Serena are winning everything and there is nothing that can be done. There is really no one on the horizon who can stop this. They are just too good and it's stressing me out. Help me please, help me please!" People get a grip. :cool:

Infiniti2001
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:26 PM
Truer words have NEVER been spoken Mr Sequoia :) The continued Williams victories seem to rob "some" folk of material every week.
They just don't seem to know what to criticize. Some are even falling back into auto mode and screeching about them not having any talent:rolleyes:

"Topaz"
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:27 PM
Also, anyone else amused by the arc of the criticism against them? First, They're not as good as they think they are (Martina Hingis, inter alia, Key Biscayne 1997; Anna Kournikova, Wimbledon 1997.). Then, They're good, but, man, they're arrogant (1998-99). Then, They're good but they don't play enough to be considered great (2000-01). Now that they're indisputably the dominant forces in the women's game, They've suddenly become boring. And, by the way, Their matches might be fixed.
Let's pay real attention to the text. Here, Wertheim is only presenting the arc, the path, the curve, the parabola that opinions have followed over the years about the Williams sisters. It may well be that each opinion was right at the time it was made, but one thing you can't fail to notice is that at each stage bitterness is at play, even when the sisters are universally accepted as superb.

Isn't that curve obvious to all of us? I see objectivity here, not favoritism.

ys
Jul 22nd, 2002, 08:54 PM
He does not know sport very well, he is not a tennis expert by any means, and his opinion/prediction/anything should not be taken seriously. He is not even a great journalist. He is not even a decent person ( how decency can be combined with regular plagiarism?). He is just what he is - a well informed insider who was given a priviliege of writing about a popular sport. But he is not biased.

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:00 PM
Regardless of whether or not those things were said with "bitterness", every statement made is true (except for the 'fixing matches' statement). So basically, Wertheim is bitching that his girls are criticized. :rolleyes:

Cry us all a river. Any player who has ever been good will be criticized. Martina Hingis has taken in more criticism than the sisters combined. So what? Why is this such a big deal to everyone? I say Venus Williams was arrogant in 1997, a virtually undeniable fact, and people freak out. Someone says that Hingis was arrogant in 1997, a virtually undeniable fact, and I say "yes, no kidding, so?".

I'm amazed at how high-strung some of you people are. Hell, if there was a tennis journalist that so obviously and blatantly liked my favorite player, I would be happy. Why does it upset some of you that Wertheim so obviously and blatantly likes your favortie player? :confused:

Volcana
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:05 PM
I deny Venus was arrogant in 1997, or any other time. You said you'd provide quotes. Provide some. Otherwise "Venus is kicking the stuffing out of my favorites and I'm whining like a wounded water buffalo" is about all what you wrote really means. And THAT'S undeniable.

Vanity
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:18 PM
Venus isn't a threat to anyone's favorite player.... don't you mean Serena???

and why do people always act like it's because someones favorite player lost?? I don't think any sane person would lose sleep just because someone beat their favorite player....

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:34 PM
"I deny Venus was arrogant in 1997, or any other time. You said you'd provide quotes. Provide some."

Unlike you (I'm sure), I don't write down everything Venus Williams says. I did a Yahoo search for old Venus Williams interviews, but found nothing. www.hingiszone.com has tons of old Hingis interviews, but I don't know of a Williams' website that has the same. So if anyone will be so kind to link me to such a site, then I will find old quotes from Venus. Until then, I can't produce a quote of any kind -- arrogant or not -- out of thin air. By the way, I'm not surprised that you are, as you admit, in denial. You would deny the Earth being round if it meant promoting your favorites, right?

"Otherwise "Venus is kicking the stuffing out of my favorites and I'm whining like a wounded water buffalo" is about all what you wrote really means. And THAT'S undeniable."

Sorry, but Venus isn't "kicking the stuffing" out of my favorites. Martina Hingis lost, yes, but Kim Clijsters rocked Venus off the court in their last match. Yes Volcana, your intelligence shines through when you can't conduct a discussion without resorting to name-calling and issues that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. "Damn, I've been backed into a corner, let my call him a name and bring up old matches! Then I will childishly play it off as a fact! I know it has nothing to do with anything, but I'm out of options!" Heh, it's okay Volcana. I feel for you, really.

LOL at this thread. As though Wertheim showing favoritism to the Williams sisters is the worst thing that could happen to them!

Hulet
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:53 PM
he he he, o0O0o, that was too funny:)...looking for venus' interview. Try this site: http://asapsports.com/archives.html

Weevee
Jul 22nd, 2002, 09:59 PM
I am wondering what kind of person would say everybody knew Venus was arrogant without being able to quote a single instance of this arrogance.
I think everybody knows what kind of person that is!

Ryan
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:07 PM
Sorry, but Venus isn't "kicking the stuffing" out of my favorites. Martina Hingis lost, yes, but Kim Clijsters rocked Venus off the court in their last match. Yes Volcana, your intelligence shines through when you can't conduct a discussion without resorting to name-calling and issues that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. "Damn, I've been backed into a corner, let my call him a name and bring up old matches! Then I will childishly play it off as a fact! I know it has nothing to do with anything, but I'm out of options!" Heh, it's okay Volcana. I feel for you, really.


Very nicely said o0O0o. I see Jon Werthless as showing favoritism to the player at the otp of the game. So he changes his favorite whenever there's a new "dominator".

o0O0o
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:39 PM
Yes Ryan, I heard he even favored his now-hated-Hingis when she was on top. :confused:

Bleh. He should stick to basketball journalism. Besides, every mailbag of his is the same: some praise for the Williams, the future of American male juniors, and some good ol' bashing of tennis greats like MacEnroe or Navirtalova.

Bright Red
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:46 PM
Werthein is TOO cool! But nothing I've read makes me feel he's a fan of the Williams (not that it would be a bad thing if he were). It just shows that he's objective enough to acknowledge sheer talent. And we all know that the Sisters are talented.

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:51 PM
Cry me a F'ing river. MY GOD. WHEN WILL IT STOP? You will all have to deal with the fact that Venus and Serena Williams are the two best players in the worlds and there is nothing you can do to stop it. If they start losing on a regular basis then you can all talk stuff. Untill then, just deal with it. It is that simple. Who cares what a bunch of cry babies on a message board thinks? GEESH...

BigTennisFan
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:53 PM
It's inevitable that both Venus and Serena will eventually lose a match against someone besides each other. When that happens we can then spend our time in threads such as: "See, she was nothing but hype all along" and "At last, someone has finally put her arrogant ass in her place" and "Ha! they think that they are so good but (insert player here) really showed her what the real deal is".

Trust me, it'll happen.

Then again they'll win a bunch of other tournaments in a row and we'll be back to this kind of drivel.

'Twas ever thus.:(

persond
Jul 22nd, 2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Freethinker82
Cry me a F'ing river. MY GOD. WHEN WILL IT STOP? You will all have to deal with the fact that Venus and Serena Williams are the two best players in the worlds and there is nothing you can do to stop it. If they start losing on a regular basis then you can all talk stuff. Untill then, just deal with it. It is that simple. Who cares what a bunch of cry babies on a message board thinks? GEESH...

:D You tell'em Freethinker!!! My sentiments, exactly!!!:D :D :D :D

kay
Jul 22nd, 2002, 11:19 PM
In the future if youre going to criticize a player because of something they said be sure to have the proof that they actually said it. You dont have to write down everything they say(that is a good defense though) but at least be able to point us to the subject matter of which you are criticizing. That way, we wont question the validity of your argument.

Infiniti2001
Jul 22nd, 2002, 11:22 PM
It looks like ModernRockstrokes is back with yet another name... Keep trying dude ... LMAO

Volcana
Jul 23rd, 2002, 12:47 AM
eta psi rocks! What a great website! And o0O0o will have no trouble finding his quotes there. Maybe he'll do a whole thread of negative comments by Venus! Can you post an empty thread?

-Sonic-
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:00 AM
I was under the impression that a certain amount of arrogance was needed to be a lasting champion in tennis these days.

Informative
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:57 AM
o0O0o is nothing but a liar and a moron who makes empty threats and accusations that he/she is incapable of backing up with any EVIDENCE and a number of other denial-addicted posters on this board still act as though Venus and Serena are not the top two palyers in the world. How delusional and stupid can people be? (it's a rhetorical question of course). As Volcana, kay, freethinker, TSequoia, TennisPower, Infiniti2001 and many others have eloquently pointed out on this thread it's time to wake up and deal with reality and not your ignorant biases for once. Whether Wertheim or any other bandwagon journalists cop to this fundamental fact is irrelevant. The proof is in the fact that for example that NO ONE aside from Serena has beaten Venus more than ONCE in the last three years, and that between them Serena and Venus have lost only 32 matches COMBINED in the past 30 months, while winning 239 matches, 30 out of their last 57 tournaments, and 6 GS majors in singles, and 4 in doubles. So it's pretty clear that, with or without Wertheim, both the widespread vicious racism against Venus and Serena AND their masterful domination of the WTA will continue. Some things will never change no matter what anyone says...

o0O0o
Jul 23rd, 2002, 04:51 AM
Sorry everyone, I went out tonight, but now I'm back and I will find some nice quotes for you. But first...

"o0O0o is nothing but a liar and a moron who makes empty threats and accusations that he/she is incapable of backing up with any EVIDENCE"

o0O0ops! Bight your tounge on this one buddy! :wavey: Your evidence, as you call it, is further down in this post.

"and a number of other denial-addicted posters on this board still act as though Venus and Serena are not the top two palyers in the world. How delusional and stupid can people be? (it's a rhetorical question of course). "

If you are going to call us "stupid", make sure you stop using words like 'palyers'. Now, far be it from me to call anyone stupid, however, was reading comprehension your strong point? This thread has absolutely, positively, NOTHING to do with whether or not Venus and Serena are the best women's tennis players on tour right now. So before putting up your defenses and rambling on about the same nonsense every time the name 'Williams' isn't said with a holy reverence, take time to read the posts in each thread.

"As Volcana, kay, freethinker, TSequoia, TennisPower, Infiniti2001 and many others have eloquently pointed out on this thread it's time to wake up and deal with reality and not your ignorant biases for once. Whether Wertheim or any other bandwagon journalists cop to this fundamental fact is irrelevant. "

Again, the purpose of this thread was to discuss what bandwagon Wertheim jumped on. Yet you call it irrelevant, and yell at me (so it seems)? Blame Volcana for that one, he created the thread.

Anyway, before I search for quotes, let me point out that arrogance is usually seen in actions (as in, the big white turkey bump incident) and additude. But nevertheless, here are some quotes from 97-99 supporting an old, well-known fact. It will get me into trouble, but hey, I'm only doing this at the request of a select few Williams fans.

1997 US Open:

"Well, I'm not having any injuries from that bump...it's not really a big thing to me" --Venus on the bump incident. Quite apologetic.

"I don't think about pulling tennis together, holding women's tennis up, whatever. That's your job. You guys say that. That's your job. It's not mine to think about." --When asked if she can help promote a young generation of tennis. Responsible!

"She must not have heard me say it, I guess (laughter). I mean, I'm going to get the dropshot, that's all there is to it. I love people that hit dropshots on me." --Do I need to elaborate on this one? Pretty easy to figure out.

"I just said that for the end of the year." --Asked, at the 1997 Tour Championships, when she predicts she will be #1. Referring to the end of 1998.

1998 Quotes:

Here's a funny exhange after her US Open loss to Lindsay

Q. Would you say she's a better player than you this year, Lindsay?

VENUS WILLIAMS: I would say she's had better results than what I have, have had. I haven't won a tournament since March.

Q. Am I supposed to translate that as a yes, she is a better player, or just she's had better results?

VENUS WILLIAMS: She has had better results this year.

If anyone requests more quotes to drag out this subject, I'll get them tomorrow. I looked at about four interviews, since most of the interviews of that website were of men's tournaments, and I didn't take the time to look at every daily interview from each tournament. In fact, I usually just went to late US Open interviews. Happy, Volcana?

I should point out that it doesn't bother me at all that Venus was arrogant; arrogance is fun among athletes. It causes rivalries and makes things interesting. Hell, my favorite is as cocky and candid as they come!

Amanda
Jul 23rd, 2002, 06:21 AM
...Venus reach the finals of the last two grand slam tournaments....just thought I'd remind some people.

kiwifan
Jul 23rd, 2002, 06:40 AM
I feel sorry for anyone who remembers the bump incident as somehow being Venus' fault.
Spirlea intentionally bumped a girl in her first US Open and laughed about it as she sat down.
In the press conference she referred to Venus using an explitive and clearly admitted that she felt she was representing the players who are sick of hearing about "Venus f___king Williams".
If Venus was my daughter, I would have called Spirlea a lot worse than a "Big White Turkey".
I think the Williams family let the tennis play put Spirlea in her place ultimately.
I don't have a quote but I do recall Spirlea complaining that promoters always stuck one of the Williams sisters early in her draw because of that incident and so she stopped advancing very far in the big tournaments.
Last time I heard there was no longer any bad blood between Spirlea and Richard or Venus but revisionist history painting Venus as the bad person there is pretty much evil (she was a tour rookie getting abused by a "respected" veteran).
Don't go there. :fiery: :fiery:

As far as arrogance, they all are (even Monica - who cried when she realized that she couldn't beat Agassi as a little girl, she wouldn't admit he was better than her-cute story but still evidence of a future champion's swagger).

Raisin
Jul 23rd, 2002, 09:42 AM
All this arguments people won't get you anywhere, I say let your favorites or the ones you cheer for do the TALKING ON THE COURTS, and right now that's what my WILLIAMS GIRLS are doing:kiss:

Volcana
Jul 23rd, 2002, 12:21 PM
o0O0o - I'm happy, because there's not one arrogant word in any of that.

"Well, I'm not having any injuries from that bump...it's not really a big thing to me" - Okay, where's the arrogance? And what is there to apologize for? Irina Spirlea herself said she deliberately walked into Venus because she felt Venus should move out of the way.

"I don't think about pulling tennis together, holding women's tennis up, whatever. That's your job. You guys say that. That's your job. It's not mine to think about." - First, please post the question. Second, where's the arrogance? That's a perfectly good answer from a 17 year old pro. The girl couldn't even vote yet! She WAS the 'younger generation' in tennis at the time. Why on earth would she be worried about promoting tennis?

"She must not have heard me say it, I guess (laughter). I mean, I'm going to get the dropshot, that's all there is to it. I love people that hit dropshots on me." - Where's the arrogance? Venus is fast. She runs down most drop shots. Is this news to you?

"I just said that for the end of the year." - Please post the question. The answer doesn't make sense out of context. But being wrong doesn't make you arrogant OR not as good as you think you are. She certainly wasn't #1 at the end of 1998. Venus had NEVER been year end #1 at all. However, since she's won 4 GS titles and has made #1 her assessment of her talent was correct. Again, no arrogance there.

That entire exchange after playing Lindsay is irrelevent to arrogance. And since Venus is 8-5 since that interview, "She has had better results this year." is also a factual statement.

So yeah o0O0o, I'm happy. It's always nice when one of Venus's detractors proves again that the attacks on her are baseless. Thanks.

Bright Red
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:07 PM
Ditto to what Volcana said.

Incidentally, I am not one of the posters who requested to see any quote by Venus being arrogant. However, I was still curious to see what people could find.

If that is all you could find, o000o, then you need to go back and do a bit more research.

servenrichie
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:30 PM
Wertheim at the beginning stuck me as anti-Williams, just like a lot of journalists as well as retired players. As soons as one gets to see how they (Williamses) conduct theirselves in and out of the court, opinions are bound to change. Wertheims opinion of them changed. Big deal, he is human. The man actually became Werthless on these boards as soon as his opinion of them changed -positively. He has been geting a lot of flak from all sides, but i say kudos to him for saying what he sees and standing firm on his opinion.
It never changes does it?
Personally i found the arc of cristicisms of the Williams as he traced it quite amusing and right on the point. When the drug accusations fade away, without any of the Williamses testing positive, there shall be the next accusation. Their detractors are getting quite desperate trying to explain how they could be this good.
Good always triump over evil and that is the way it has always been!

Rubylips
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:47 PM
Just deal with it,the girl are doing they'RE thing.God bless them.Can"t we all get along?. lol

Infiniti2001
Jul 23rd, 2002, 01:50 PM
Hey ModernRockStrokes, you provided nothing persuasive...
P.S. if you're really interested in reading Venus's interviews, you are invited to visit Planet Venus where there are interviews from as far back as 1996 :P

o0O0o
Jul 23rd, 2002, 04:53 PM
Volcana, there is arrogance in truth. Yes, you would be quick to call Hingis arrogant when she said she wins all her rivalries and she is better than anyone else. She was arrogant when she said her doubles partner was old and slow. She was arrogant when she said "wow, was that easy" at the net after crushing Kournikova.

It was all arrogant, but it was all true. So whether or not Venus was telling the truth in what she said (which wasn't always the case) there was clearly arrogance there. Venus was clearly impressed with how fast she was, and anyone who hit a dropshot against her must not have heard her! It's nice to see she is so impressed with herself. And yea, it's not her responsibility to promote the tour at all! I mean, she is only a player, a person that without, the tour would be nothing. Yea, even though Lindsay had a far better year and beat her in every match-up, no CRUSHED her in every match-up, Venus certainly wasn't at all stuck-up by not being able to admit Lindsay was better. And hell, saying you're going to be the best player in less than a year? No, there is no arrogance in that at all! :rolleyes:
And commenting on how weak your opponents serve is before being crushed 6-4 6-2, or commenting on how you and your sister will be the two best in the world -- Venus was totally humble about those things! :rolleyes:

Please, volcana, you look silly when you can't admit Venus Williams had an air of arrogance around her when she was young on tour. Virtually every player on tour was arrogant at one point or another, but you are so convinced that your girl was a little angel who could do no wrong. The lengths you will go to, just to defend your favorite...

...and Infiniti, I won't acknowledge you until you recognize that I'm not someone else on these boards, RockSteady. Hell I don't even know what you called me in your last post.

Infiniti2001
Jul 23rd, 2002, 05:04 PM
...and Infiniti, I won't acknowledge you until you recognize that I'm not someone else on these boards, RockSteady. Hell I don't even know what you called me in your last post.

Right;)