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View Full Version : Is it a WILLIAMS Domination or..............


Bezz
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:34 PM
is it just a william domination. People have gone on about how its both the sisters that have dominated but i think the truth is Serena is the only one really dominating at the moment. Venus hasnt has been losing to players she normally beats (seles,Clijsters,testud), and has no answer to serena's game at all, she has lost the last 3 times they played in straight sets.

It seems that just because they are sisters we should talk about them as a couple, but when yu look at there record this year and seen the players they have beat and lost to only serena's record looks impressive to me. If martina, lindsay,monica or jennifer (etc) lose a number of times in a row to each other or to the williams the williams are 'dominating' them, but if venus loses to serena 3 times in a row they are still on equal level??:confused:

Bezz
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:39 PM
oops made a mistake, take away the 'hasnt' from the 3rd line down after venus :-)

Robbie.
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:40 PM
Bezza, exactly my sentiments :D

In another thread after Wimby I made a comment that this was Serena domination and that in truth Venus's past 52 weeks bears much more resemblance to Jenn's than to her sisters. Of course, I had my head promptly bitten off. People have to stop looking at them as a pair. Serena is dominating at the moment, and like all the others Venus is being domainated by her at the moment. And before someone says Venus reached two slam finals blah blah well arantxa reached 4 GS finals in six grandlams in 95/96, (losing them all to steffi). No one said it was Steffi/ASV domination and rightfully so. It was just steffi domination. Just like it is Serena domination now.

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:32 PM
i dont know what to say, but ill say this, when serena had her mental problems last year, venus didn't say "i have a sister, what sister?"

mishar
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:42 PM
On the other hand, Venus has won the most matches on the tour so far this year, and she has won 4 out of the last 9 slams. And she has only lost to three players not named Serena this year -- which if not total domination is pretty darn good (and better than any other player on the tour besides SW)

However, your point is interesting.

QUEENLINDSAY
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:42 PM
GOOD POINT!!!!!!!

TSequoia01
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:44 PM
Well lets see what is going to happen in the next 8 weeks. You do know the Sisters will be playing at least 8 weeks straight right? Lets see what occurs. Probably what has occurred for the last 2 years. 6 Grandslams, numerous tier I's and II's. Call it banana if you want but impressive none the less. :cool:

ziggy
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:51 PM
:rolleyes:

Geesh, will it ever stop?

DD
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:51 PM
BEZZA

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

WHY DONT YOU CONCENTRATE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON YOUR FAVES
AND STOP COMING WITH THESE THREADS.

Volcana
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:32 PM
I think the USOpen will provide an answer to that.

jay_k
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:40 PM
Will it be the beginning of the end ...;) ?

Becool
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:18 PM
Serena can win US Open as well Volcana

VenusSerena
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:37 PM
oops Bezza, you did it again, you are making it sound like Venus "has been loosing to players she normally beats" as if she has consistently lost to them. Monica, injured, Testud Injured, and please someone don't come in here and tell me that she wasn't cuz if you were at the match like I was, you would notice that she was injured, and not moving well, and also when you have the players, Monica, and Testud, state that "she was a little injured" what does that tell u? Anyway, and against Clijsters, she was making too many errors, Venus has not been beaten by these players, she has beaten herself. If you look at the Scorelines, againt Clijsters, Testud, and Monica, when she was playing well and healthy she easily won the sets, 6-1, 6-1, 6-2 for monica I belive. So really don't pull none of that BS with me that she has been lossing to players she never lost to. Also you are putting down the players she lost to by saying this. These are good players. Venus was injured in one, got injured during the testud match, and with Clijsters, she won the first set easily, and Like Clijsters said, all she could do was hope venus started to make errors, and she did, and that is what really won the match fo her. I would say that Serena is dominating the tour right now this year. But for the past couple of years. It has been all Venus Williams, with lil sis right behind. The past couple of months its been the other way around!

VenusSerena
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:45 PM
also, i think when you are talking about "domination" you should be thinking about what happend during the year. Serena could very well dominate the Clay court season and wimbledon, but when the hardcourt season starts, Venus has more tournies on her schedule before the US Open, so if they both when all their tourneis, Venus would be considered the one that dominated the hardcourts, and then if Venus wins the US Open, personally I think they would be tied. I only say this b/c Serena didn't play at the beginning of the year. And venus one all her titles so far at the beginning. Last year Venus one the Nasdaq at the beginning of the year, and then after that is was Wimbled, 3 other tournies and the US Open. Lets just wait till the US Open ends to determine who has been doing the dominating. Right now from the clay court season to the end of wimbledon it was Serena. And at the beginning of the year it was Venus. Also one thing you should know, is that Venus has been playing more that Serena, and she has stayed consistent in her showings. I I think the quarters is at the Australian is her worst performance so far this year in her tournies. She has played so much. I give her all the credit. I think she is a little tired. But hey, everyone can't win everything.

ModernAge
Jul 19th, 2002, 08:33 PM
Is it like a Williams fan to make excuses or what? Venus was not injured when she lost to Seles or Testud, because (in her match against Seles) the only time she appeared to be sluggish was in the set she won! Besides, when you go on to the court, you declare yourself healthy and able to win, and Testud and Seles took it to Venus and played better that day. It's like Serena's "food poisoning" deja vu (yea Serena, food poisoning was the cause of all those Capriati forehand's flying by you?).

When Hingis lost to Venus in her last match, her ankles were falling off her body and she could barely move, but you did not hear her complain. Martina would not have stepped on the court if she didn't think she could win. So enough of this "injury" BS, it's a tired, desperate excuse that has no room on a tennis court.

Now, back to the topic, Serena is dominating, Venus isn't, period. Let's look at how many top 10 players Venus has beaten in the Slams this year:

Two. Seles and Henin, the two she beats all the time anyway.
She's lost to two top 10 players in Slams. Seles and Serena. Two she doesn't normally lose to.

She's beaten four top 10 players this year:

Seles
Mauresmo
Henin
Hingis

With the sole exception of Hingis, she played top 10 players she should beat any day of the week. She's lost to four top 10 players this year:

Seles
Clijsters
Serena
Testud

So she is 4-4 against the top players this year, and her matches against Serena have not been close. She doesn't have a Tier I title nor reached a Tier I final. I think she has one Tier II and some very easy Tier III tournaments. Her last victory was a choke-fest from Justine Henin. The only two top 10 players she has beaten en route to her titles are Amelie Mauresmo and Justine Henin, the two biggest headcases on tour. In fact, Mauresmo had a match point in one of her matches against Venus, but that's besides the subject.

So what does this prove? Venus is having a good season, a great season by most peoples standards, but she is certainly not dominating...not at all. It is Serena's domination this year, Venus is just a level or three below her. We often group them together, but that should not be the case here, because one sister is doing good while the other is doing great.

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 08:57 PM
just few comments... I think that its going to be kind of hard to make it to the finals if you only have one chance to (at Miami), she played FIVE tier 2 tournaments winning 3 of them making the final in 1 and the semis of the other...
The semifinal loss was to Sandrine Testud who was not in the top ten during that time but ranked 11...
She only played ONE tier 3 event and won...
Your 4-4 record about Venus makes no sense...she has met a person in the top ten 14 times and won 9 of them (without walkover 8/13)...
I love serena and i think she deserves to be number one but, the fact that she played 4 (supposed to be 5) tier one's helped alot, because
1) She didn't have to play more
2) she got more quality points and round points
In my opinion Amelie and Justine are very talented so there is no need to say bad things about them because its happened to the best...by the way didn't justine beat serena??
Serena beat the same top players that venus did w/ the exception of jennifer...

Infiniti2001
Jul 19th, 2002, 09:03 PM
ModernAge aka Rocksteady aka Thestrokes-- you can deny it all you want and it won't wash... Your obsession with Venus always shines through... :rolleyes: Try harder my man...

Anyway, it's not Venus's fault who she plays, she has no control over the draws... She's lost to 2 Top 10ers this year --- Kim and Monica, no shame in that... Like someone else said Sandrine was not a Top 10er at the semi finals in Dubai, so she shouldn't be counted as one... If you get a chance to talk to Venus , I bet she would tell you that she would rather lose 9 times out of 10 to her sister rather than lose to any other player on the tour. So logic falls short....

P.S . the contents of your signature sell you out like hot cakes with EVERY new name :P

Amanda
Jul 19th, 2002, 09:57 PM
Venus has made it to the finals of 2 grand slams....beating everyone except Serena. What's your point. Both Venus and Serena are dominating...Especially after the RG finals.....they proved they are the dominating force in women's tennis.

Kart
Jul 19th, 2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by VenusSerena
oops Bezza, you did it again, you are making it sound like Venus "has been loosing to players she normally beats" as if she has consistently lost to them. Monica, injured, Testud Injured, and please someone don't come in here and tell me that she wasn't cuz if you were at the match like I was, you would notice that she was injured, and not moving well, and also when you have the players, Monica, and Testud, state that "she was a little injured" what does that tell u? Anyway, and against Clijsters, she was making too many errors, Venus has not been beaten by these players, she has beaten herself. If you look at the Scorelines, againt Clijsters, Testud, and Monica, when she was playing well and healthy she easily won the sets, 6-1, 6-1, 6-2 for monica I belive. So really don't pull none of that BS with me that she has been lossing to players she never lost to. Also you are putting down the players she lost to by saying this. These are good players. Venus was injured in one, got injured during the testud match, and with Clijsters, she won the first set easily, and Like Clijsters said, all she could do was hope venus started to make errors, and she did, and that is what really won the match fo her. I would say that Serena is dominating the tour right now this year. But for the past couple of years. It has been all Venus Williams, with lil sis right behind. The past couple of months its been the other way around!

'Also you are putting down the players she lost to by saying this. '

???

What exactly were you doing in your post by saying :

'Venus has not been beaten by these players, she has beaten herself. '

There are better ways to express yourself.

For example ...

Originally posted by Infiniti2001

Anyway, it's not Venus's fault who she plays, she has no control over the draws... She's lost to 2 Top 10ers this year --- Kim and Monica, no shame in that...

In answer to this thread - at the start of the year, Martina Hingis and Venus Williams and Jennifer Capriati were dominating the latter stages of tournaments.

Since Miami it's been Serena all the way. Venus comes a close second though and if you ignore Serena's record Venus is still pretty far above the rest.

HAIL-VENUS
Jul 20th, 2002, 12:37 AM
In other words Kart, "it's a Williams Domination". Hell, if it was only Serena dominating, then she'd be meeting a variety of opponents in the finals. Yet, we're only seeing VENUS and Serena making it, or better yet, playing so much better than the rest of the tour, that THEY are the only faces we see in recent finals. That's what I call a Williams Domination. Bezza, once again, you've created a thread that's worth just about as much as a pile of shit.

Kart
Jul 20th, 2002, 12:43 AM
That last sentence ... has anyone ever told you you have a real way with words Hail-Venus ??? :p

HAIL-VENUS
Jul 20th, 2002, 12:52 AM
Why, yes. Many times over.:p

Julie
Jul 20th, 2002, 12:56 AM
I actually think bezza makes a good point, and she is just stressing her opinion and doing so in a non insulting, non inflammatory way. So lets try to keep this thread constructive and just a non heated debate :D

My personal view is that the two of them are dominating the tour, but that at the current time serena is in a league of her own,

Although as Volcana says, you have to wait for the US open to actually see whether Serena is dominating Vee, 2 results really isnt enough to go on, and can only give you an idea, at the us open or whenever they meet again - that trend could well be broken - lets wait and see ;)

tennischick
Jul 20th, 2002, 01:16 AM
go Serena!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Weevee
Jul 20th, 2002, 02:37 AM
What domination? Lisa Leslie is better than either Williams and don't even talk about Marion Jones.

kay
Jul 20th, 2002, 03:33 AM
It is so silly to talk compare people who play different sports. Please.

Anyway, if it will make you all feel better let's just say that Serena is dominating the entire tour, while Venus is only dominating the entire tour with the exception of Serena. Like I said theyre on a level of their own and clearly Serena is in the driver's seat. Why even bring the rest of the tour into the picture theyre irrelevant at the moment. Just compare Venus and Serena and yes, point well taken of the two Serena is dominating, for now.=

J_Migoe
Jul 20th, 2002, 04:28 AM
The Williams sisters are better than Marion Jones and Lisa Leslie combined!:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :p :p :p :p

Amanda
Jul 20th, 2002, 06:07 AM
The greatest female athletes are those women who compete in the World's Strongest Women contests. I promise you, none of the WTA players can compare.

topspin
Jul 20th, 2002, 07:39 AM
viewpoint from a Serena fan who also happens to be a fan of Venus

Isn't it ironic that this theory about Venus shouldn't be included as part of the Williams domination when the same idea was applied to Serena about the same timeframe last year? Isn't it also strange as to sudden influx of "new" Serena fans?

The questions are:

Where were these new Serena "fans" when she was struggling in closing out matches she could have won? Where were they when the prospects of Serena's future looked gloomy after a number of tournment withdrawals? Where were they when Serena was losing to Venus and Jennifer consistently? Where were they when Serena was not winning tournament after tournament? Where were they when Serena was booed during the Indian Wells final? In fact, it wouldn't be a surprise to say some of her new "fans" probably stated she and Venus brought it on themselves with their match-fixing.

The most telling "where were they' is how often do you see the "new" or "supportive" fans of Serena when her name and reputation are being slandered or when her game is said to be having a detrimental affect on the tour. In fact, some of these Serena fans or supporters ( selerules, Queenlindsey. and others )have posted unfavorable remarks about SERENA and Venus in the past. There is one poster in this thread who claims to be a Serena fan but previous posts in the last couple of months show this poster to be more agreeable of negative opinions about SERENA and Venus.

Venus fans don't fall for the bait of posting negative responses or a feeling of animosity towards Serena. You know some posters are so desperate to downplay the accomplishments of a Williams sister they will go so far as acknowledging the acheivements of or cheering for one Williams Sisters with the purpose of demeaning the accomplishments of the other sister.

bezza, the previous paragraph was not in reference to you.

Harju.
Jul 20th, 2002, 08:29 AM
:rolleyes:

Bezz
Jul 20th, 2002, 12:33 PM
One thing i want to clear up is i am male:wavey:

I agree with some posts on here and yes i made this post knowing full well it was gonna get some peoples backs-up but i didnt care cos i have an opinion and i wanted to write it:p .

If martina Hingis or Lindsay Davenport lost 3 times in a row in the latter stages of events and GS finals to Serena williams, would the williams fans be putting martina or lindsay on the same level as serena?-i dont think so. Would they say its williams-Hingis domination?-i dont think so again.Venus is having a medioca year compared to last year, where as serena is beating EVERYONE and has 2 GS titles for her efforts. Also i dont remember williams fans a few weeks ago saying'lets wait until we get to the US open to see if the williams are dominating',cos yu were pretty sure they were already doing that, so why the change?

I think reading the reply's has shown most of yu put serena on a different level to venus, IMO that means serena is dominating cos nobody can beat her, venus might be a close 2nd but thats all she is, a close 2nd. I wouldnt want to be dominating something in 2nd place i would rather be 1st.:)

Experimentee
Jul 20th, 2002, 02:26 PM
Venus is also consistently beating every other player on the tour so in my view its pretty obvious that shes dominating too. Thats why everyone is expecting an all-Williams final for the US Open, they wouldnt be thinking that if Venus wasnt dominating everyone in her potential half of the draw.

azinna
Jul 20th, 2002, 02:34 PM
First off, I like to say someone is dominating, without having to add qualifiers like "right now" or "between October and Dec." For me, domination conjures images of Lendl, Navratilova, Court, perhaps Sampras. You need to look at what they've been able to sustain, at least for the bulk of a single season.

Without a doubt it is a Williams Sisters domination. Women's tennis hasn't seen two multiple repeat slam finalists for a while. And to see them racking up trophies in other events is more proof.

When Seles and Graf were going at it, when Martina and Chrissy were locked in battle, many in the game considered the tour dominated by both.

There have been three solo-dominating periods since 1980:
1984-6: when Martina ruled with a rippled arm.
1988: when Steffi gave first folks whiplash
1993, then 95-6: when the Forehand returned, letting up only when her back went out of whack
1997: when the Swiss Miss brought Delicacy back to the table

Serena's 2002 hasn't gotten there yet. Not yet, but the girl is damn close. What she has done is incredible, but please keep in mind that she just broke a serious slam drought in June. Her loss to V at the USO is still less than a year away (which is probably why some folks are saying let's wait), and as Lindsay proved last year, the fall season is nothing anyone should dismiss (and I am waiting to see what my girls will be designing come September: forehands or frocks, sets or set pieces, match points or matching shoes?).

Still, I'm with folks that see Serena as the one in contention for a memorable season. Note that Venus' 2000 and 2001 just barely missed the list. If V or (gasp) JanCap wins the USO.........

Bella
Jul 20th, 2002, 04:21 PM
I think we'll see in the next tournament. Will Venus go all the way to and through the final with her serve on?