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ModernAge
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:10 PM
...is called "the top 10".

Let's compare her to the top two players, Serena and Venus Williams.

Hantuchova has a weaker first serve, but a better second serve than Venus and Serena. (Maybe her and Serena have equally as good second serves). She covers court almost as well as them, but better than most players. She has a wingspan greater than Serena, almost equal to that of Venus. She volleys better than both of them. She returns better than both of them. She is perhaps a little less consistent and mentally tough. She has a better backhand than Serena, a better forehand than Venus. She has better feel than both of them (she can mix it up well).

So on paper, Hantuchova is right up there, if not better than virtually any player on tour, including the top two. So what is holding her back from becoming the best in the world?

As I said before, the top ten.

It takes time to fill out your potential. Hantuchova has beaten Dokic, Henin, and Hingis. But Dokic is barely a "top" player (only on paper is she one) and Hingis and Henin don't play games like the rest of the top 10. What Daniela needs is a win over a power player, a big-babe. It would do wonders for her confidence to beat Venus, Jennifer, Serena, Monica, or Kim. As soon as she starts winning these matches and gaining confidence, she could become, very quickly, the player on tour to beat.

So what do you think? When, if ever, will Daniela break through?

Infiniti2001
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:18 PM
What's up Rocksteady?? Try harder my man hehehehehehehe!!!

ModernAge
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:23 PM
I'm sorry?

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:26 PM
Daniela is very young & getting better all the time. I don't think the "Top Ten" is a problem, so much as a Fun Challenge.

TSequoia01
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:26 PM
Daniela is extremely talented. Many call her a young Venus. Power, speed, and finesse. At Wimbledon she played Serena tough and hit some amazing winners. Still Serena was a bit much for her at this time. Give her some time, let her develop. I believe she will have a definite impact before the year is out. Daniela just needs to play Clijsters, Henin, Seles, and Davenport to round out her experience. Is she playing Stanford? :)

Jericho
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:27 PM
shes got potential..but lets try not to jump to conclusions and say that shes as good as the sisters because she cant beat the top ten and if the top ten can barely get any wins against the sisters than it makes no sense at all...

GrandSlammed
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:28 PM
Damn... the very thought at the existence of the Williams is sure to drive some of you to an early grave.

Worried.. worried ... worried.

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:30 PM
She has wins over top ten players & she's a whole lot younger then most, besides Kim & Jelena.

ModernAge
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:31 PM
I never said she is better than the Williams sisters! I said she might be as good or better on paper. There is a huge difference there. And GrandSlammed, are you looking for trouble? Because you won't find it anywhere in my post, I said nothing bad about the Williamses, I only used them as the measuring stick, which is a compliment. Lighten up people!

Jericho
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Freefall
She has wins over top ten players & she's a whole lot younger then most, besides Kim & Jelena.

...age aint nothing but a number...go ask seles, capriati, and davenport

Dokicfan17
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:35 PM
Dude , thats so wrong

Dokic is not barely a top player, she IS a top player
she is ranked number 6 in the world and not too many points away from being in the worlds TOP 5!

She must be extremely talented and play very well to get to number 6, so she has been beaten this year, but she has great wins, and she is extremely good

Listen Daniela aint even in the top ten and Dokic is number 6 almost 5, and ur callin Daniela a top player and not Dokic one?

Please, Daniela is very good I do admit, but Dokic deserves A LOT of credit for where she is and everything she has to deal with ( ex. dad and australia) , she is number 6 and has 5 titles and is very good, so its not fair that you give ALL the credit to daniela who isnt even in top ten and leave Dokic hanging with "barely a top player"
well hate to burst your bubble but she must be no fluke to be number 6, she cant just suddenly get there cuz of luck, she been in top 10 for quite a long time , so she is a TOP player, daniela is talented and i see her in the top ten, but Jelena Dokic deserves credit!
People dont like her cuz of her dad and attitude, well I love Jelena she is my favorite player, I met her at last years Pilot Pen , she is soooo nice, she deserves credit u all, lol


Sorry to run on and on, but Jelena Dokic RUles!!
Good Luck Girl

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:42 PM
Age IS a facter when you're a teen & still Growing into you're game. I wasn't dissing Seles, Jencap & Davenport for being old. Try to understand the point next time.


Serena DIDN'T suck last year, she was just still growing into her game & figuring out what worked & what didn't etc. etc. Daniela is going through that now. Serena is about 2 years older, a very good player & she just came into her own the last couple months. It's only a matter of time before Daniela is challenging for #1 also.

Jericho
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:44 PM
im sure dokic wouldnt want us to give her the benefit of the doubt because of problems in her life, tennis isnt about what happen off-court but what happens in court...dokic hasnt beaten hantuchova yet (that, i do feel sorry for her)...of course she is talented in playing tennis that why shes playing tennis, right...i dont want to bring up certain names or discredit her from her accomplishments, but if some certain players played in post us open tournaments then she would've been outside top ten...if the wta would limit how many tournaments a player could play then she would be in trouble...remember quality over quantity...

Jericho
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Freefall
Age IS a facter when you're a teen & still Growing into you're game. I wasn't dissing Seles, Jencap & Davenport for being old. Try to understand the point next time.


Serena DIDN'T suck last year, she was just still growing into her game & figuring out what worked & what didn't etc. etc. Daniela is going through that now. Serena is about 2 years older, a very good player & she just came into her own the last couple months. It's only a matter of time before Daniela is challenging for #1 also.

i admit that sometimes age can be a factor and im sorry that i didn't understand your post...

that thing about serena trying to "growing into her game" i dont think that was the reason why because she did win the 99' US Open at just i think the age of 17...i think it was just a mental thing

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:04 PM
Yes, you're right, Serena was more mental. That was the best example I could think of at that second.

I think for VERY tall players like Daniela, Venus & Lindsay. It takes a bit longer to grow into your game, because you tend to stop growing MUCH later then most people. I'm very tall myself & I know a few inches can really change how you feel on your feet.

I think hight is partly why shorter players like Martina, Jelena, Serena, Justine or Kim, seem to have success faster then tall girls like Daniela, Venus or Lindsay.

In Lindsay's case, she also had to get in a good playing shape too, when she was younger.

Jericho
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Freefall
Yes, you're right, Serena was more mental. That was the best example I could think of at that second.

I think for VERY tall players like Daniela, Venus & Lindsay. It takes a bit longer to grow into your game, because you tend to stop growing MUCH later then most people. I'm very tall myself & I know a few inches can really change how you feel on your feet.

I think hight is partly why shorter players like Martina, Jelena, Serena, Justine or Kim, seem to have success faster then tall girls like Daniela, Venus or Lindsay.

In Lindsay's case, she also had to get in a good playing shape too, when she was younger.

well said, i agree, a very good analysis...

ModernAge
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:21 PM
To Dokicfan...

...I never called Daniela a 'top' player, although I think she will be. And no, I don't dislike Dokic, nor do I like her, I don't really care much about her (not to sound rude). But I can't help but think that she might not be in the top 10 if she didn't play so many tournaments. And let's face it, who has the least chance of beating Martina, Serena, Venus, or Jen in the top 10? IMO it is Dokic, but who knows, perhaps I'm overlooking her accomplishments.

villa
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:05 AM
Iam sorry but age is nothing but a number, serena at daneilas age had already won a grandslam and many other titles.
Venus had been a grandslam finalist, several semi's, and many titles including several teir ones.

Danelia has great game, however she has only reached 1 grandslam quater final and one 1 waterdowned tier 1 title.

ModernAge
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:22 AM
Just because a few women won Slams as teens, it's now a normal thing to do?

Just accept that some reach their peak at 17 (Hingis), some at 26 (Capriati), and some in-between! Daniela is a rookie compared to Clijsters and Dokic, despiter their age similarities.

It's like comparing a straight-from-HS basketball player who has been in the league for four years to a college grad in his rookie year. What's the point of saying "they are the same age but the first guy has done so much more with his pro career". Well no duh.

Dokicfan17
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:08 AM
I think DOkic has a much better chance than beating any of the players than Clijsters

I mean you make it sound like Dokic doesnt deserve to be in the top 10, well guess what she is and shes there to stay

Look at CLijsters, what has she done this year, lost 2nd round at wimbledon, lost early

she has some nasty losses and you can say the same thing about her ,

point is Dokic is in the top ten and deserves to be there

hantuchova_rulez
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Freefall
Yes, you're right, Serena was more mental. That was the best example I could think of at that second.

I think for VERY tall players like Daniela, Venus & Lindsay. It takes a bit longer to grow into your game, because you tend to stop growing MUCH later then most people. I'm very tall myself & I know a few inches can really change how you feel on your feet.

I think hight is partly why shorter players like Martina, Jelena, Serena, Justine or Kim, seem to have success faster then tall girls like Daniela, Venus or Lindsay.

In Lindsay's case, she also had to get in a good playing shape too, when she was younger.

Nice hypothesis Freefall, that's one thing I hadn't considered. ;)

Yes, Hantuchova is relatively inexperienced compared to other players, and she does have the talent to go far...I just hope she doesn't do a Anna/Coetzer and let it get to her head, which I stress I think will not happen, because you can see that she purely concentrates on her tennis.

However you look at it, Hantuchova will surely be a major threat in years to come!

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Dokicfan17
I think DOkic has a much better chance than beating any of the players than Clijsters

I mean you make it sound like Dokic doesnt deserve to be in the top 10, well guess what she is and shes there to stay

Look at CLijsters, what has she done this year, lost 2nd round at wimbledon, lost early

she has some nasty losses and you can say the same thing about her ,

point is Dokic is in the top ten and deserves to be there

clijsters did beat venus this year and she does have an injury...but i guess she is pretty deserving to be in the top ten after all 30 of those tournament she plays, not to be mean but shes pretty desperate...

*roddicksinme*
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:08 AM
I think she can def. get to #1 and she has taken Jen and Venus to 3 sets already

ys
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:17 AM
Daniela just needs to play Clijsters, Henin, Seles, and Davenport to round out her experience.

It is as if it takes Williams sisters, Seles or Capriati to beat her. Before trying to be a giankiller, she first has to figure out how to beat bedanovas and smashnovas of WTA.

I don't know why you all are convinced that Dani is destined for big future. She played ONE great tournament , that's it. Yes, it is Tier I that she won, but this year, Iva, for instance, won even stronger Tier I. So, is Majoli also expected to break into Top 10 soon?

ModernAge
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:25 AM
Because not only is Daniela young, and not only does she have a big serve/groundstrokes and great speed & touch, but she has pushed all the top players. She made the quarterfinals of Wimbledon, and the fourth round of the French. She is currently ranked, what, #11, and quickly moving up. She has beaten Henin, Dokic, and Hingis.

Keep in mind that she has only been on the radar screens for about six months.

treufreund
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:28 AM
Daniela has a better backhand than Serena and a better forehand than Venus? And better returns than both??? I am a Dani fan but I think that this is at least debatable.

ModernAge
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:31 AM
It certainly is debatable, but in my opinion...

BACKHAND

1) Daniela/Venus
2) Serena

FOREHAND

1) Serena
2) Daniela
3) Venus

And about her return, I think she has the best power return in the game, and I think when people see more of her over the next year, they will start to agree.

ys
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:37 AM
Because not only is Daniela young, and not only does she have a big serve/groundstrokes and great speed & touch

I do not think I would subscibe by this description. When did she show all that consistently?

she has pushed all the top players
Whom she has pushed? Injured Venus in AO? Whom else? It's nothin' compared to how, say, Myskina was pushing Williams and Capriati this year.

She is currently ranked, what, #11, and quickly moving up. She has beaten Henin, Dokic, and Hingis.

On a strength of a couple of good results. She beat Henin on the hardcourts - surface Henin dislikes very much. She beat slumping Hingis who needed surgery. She beat Dokic twice, who has a tendency of losing to the same players ( see Kremer ). Other than that she did nothing.

She made the quarterfinals of Wimbledon

Stevenson and Lucic once went even further. Wimbledon is the flukiest GS, because no one knows how to play on grass any more.



Keep in mind that she has only been on the radar screens for about six months.

At least 10 month, since the start of indoor season last year.
And even then, first 10 monthes of careers of Kournikova/Dementieva/Lucic were even more impressive. Meant nothing.

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:11 AM
i think its a little too premature to talk about her in the sort of fashion some people doing so right now. I mean she has losing streak against dementieva, schiavone, myskina, schnyder....and KOURNIKOVA!!!Oh yeah sure she hasnt lost agianst dokic, but in my opinion i dont think dokic top ten material. Until she starts showing consistency and wins against players below her level, then its all just hype...

vs1
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:30 AM
I think that Daniela is a great talent. I hope that she develops well because there have been many great talents who hadn't developed to their potential.

She needs to be consistent. She has big wins but also early losses. She needs to consistently go deep into tournaments. She needs to also consistently win over players ranked lower than her. That's what (most) of the top ten players do well.

Daniela has the game and the weapons. She needs to build her confidence and mental strength. That will come from more experience and more wins (or going deeper consistently in each tourney).

I agree that age is relative. Look, Daniela is just a year (I think even less than a full year) younger than Serena. But Serena has the mental edge because she has played the big games more and have been more consistent, allowing her to build her confidence.

I wish Daniela well. I hope that she continues to focus on playing better and better, and I hope she continues to enjoy her tennis. She is very nice to watch and I hope to see more of her on the main courts!

Volcana
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:31 AM
About her age relative to the tour

20 year olds - Williams, Henin, Dementieva
19 year olds - Dokic, Hantuchova, Clijsters

I admit that clay is a slower surface that requires patience, a lot of different shots, and the ability to build points. However, the fact that Daniela hasn't come close to winning another event makes her win at IW look more and more like a fluke cause by the absence of the three best players in the world. Yes, it was clay court season. You can't expect a pure power player to do well on clay. So we'll wait and see how she does back on hard courts. But hard courts are the best surface for most of the top ten.

Right now, I see a Dokic-like career in her future.

ModernAge
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:36 AM
...what exactly does Dokic do better than Daniela, out of curiosity?

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
About her age relative to the tour

20 year olds - Williams, Henin, Dementieva
19 year olds - Dokic, Hantuchova, Clijsters

I admit that clay is a slower surface that requires patience, a lot of different shots, and the ability to build points. However, the fact that Daniela hasn't come close to winning another event makes her win at IW look more and more like a fluke cause by the absence of the three best players in the world. Yes, it was clay court season. You can't expect a pure power player to do well on clay. So we'll wait and see how she does back on hard courts. But hard courts are the best surface for most of the top ten.

Right now, I see a Dokic-like career in her future.

i disagree w/ you because she playing 7 less tournaments than dokic even though she plays a lot, thats still a big difference.

In my opinion, she doesn't just hit the ball hard but also well placed, and has a good first and second serve, unlike dokic. However too much pressure is placed on her right now about breaking into the top ten, maybe top five, or even number one, which isn't realistic.

Im not saying it wont happen, im just saying dont expect her to do things other have and compare her to say venus or hingis because it was a completely different scene back then...

ys
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:04 AM
...what exactly does Dokic do better than Daniela, out of curiosity?

Fight.

ys
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:11 AM
So we'll wait and see how she does back on hard courts. But hard courts are the best surface for most of the top ten.

You know what Hantuchova's record on US hardcourts is? 7-6. And out of those 7 wins 6 were at IW. SO at 6 events other than IW her record on US hardcourts is 1-6. I do not think her record would remind Dokic's one. Dokic is not the best in the world, but she is very steady. I'd rather think that her career could be somewhat Pierce's like, only, prehaps, on smaller scales. From time to time, at some tournaments, she will get very hot, but then she'll be cooling down as quickly.

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:12 AM
yeah she fought all right...like against hantuchova when she was down a set and had a lead in the second..she's such a fighter...oh wait she didn't win that one or the other matches against hantuchova

Freefall
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:15 AM
vs1: You're about a year off with their ages. Daniela is closer to 2 years younger then Serena, then one, let alone under one.

Dawn Marie
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:20 AM
Tennis is mental more than anything and right now she is not there yet. ALOT of players have all the shots and volleys, it's how the head works with them.

Also Dokic is mentally tough imho and deserves respect, even thought she has a mouth.

Dani is good, but not COMPLETE, if she were she would be #1 and the holder of many grandslams. Her breakthorugh will come over Jennifer Capriati or maybe Lindsay Davenport.

Dokicfan17
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:51 AM
yeah Dokic is a WAY better fighter than Daniela, u all dont think so, Dokic is ranked 6, eat ur hearts out

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Dokicfan17
yeah Dokic is a WAY better fighter than Daniela, u all dont think so, Dokic is ranked 6, eat ur hearts out

davenport hasnt played for 6 months, she number #9, sandrine is pregnant she's #11...martina was #1 without winning a slam for a year...your point is??? Everyone knows the ranking is a joke until everyone in the top 20 even 10 plays at east 17 tourneys...by the way i didnt know your ranked by being a fighter

vertiklychalengd
Jul 19th, 2002, 07:11 AM
why are u comparing hantuchuva wif jelena? jelena's better FULL STOP all though she did lose to her 3 time but i think jelena was exhausted.

jd4eva
Jul 19th, 2002, 07:17 AM
vertiklychalengd - in all fairness, hantuchova's wins (except maybe berlin) have been deserved. Jelena's game just doesn't match up to Daniela's...........does that make Daniela better.......I think not

Freefall
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:51 PM
With a 3-0 record, I'd have to say Daniela is at least a little better, then Jelena. I like Jelena too & she is a very good player also.

Daniela is JUST breaking through now, when Jelena did over a year ago. So Jelena has a better record over time vs other players, then Daniela right now.

Jericho
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:37 PM
i think that we should stop comparing them, because some players have problems w/ certain people, for example dokic vs. hantuchova and serena and callens..some styles suit others games...

adlysha babalu
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:48 PM
Well, it's kinda obvious that daniela will definately be in the top 10!! and i am very confident that she will be in the top 5 by next year i guess..she is such a talented player..powerfull groundstrokes!! hope she plays well in the future!!! :bounce: