View Full Version : Bezza (Is this Dominating Also?)

Jul 18th, 2002, 02:14 PM
I was just checking a few head-to-heads and realised how dominant martina and lindsay were, they met 16 times in a row at ONLY the final stage, this spanned from 1997 Philidelphia to tokyo 2001 (4 years ) Martina won 6 times and Lindsay won 10. People are going on about the domination of the williams sisters, there domination doesnt even come close, i dont think they will ever reach this kind of record.

I am not trying to start and argument about how good players were back then, i just thought it was an interesting stat and puts into perspective the so called domination of the current players

I wouldn't call that dominant in any way if you have two people meeting 16 times in a row or whatever to the finals, if one of them didn't have the consistent record of never loosing or only loosing just a couple times against the other person, maybe that is somewhat dominant. Venus and Serena are dominating the tour, you don't have to be considered dominating if you are meeting in the finals only. Besides, dominating the players is also another thing you should look at. Like i posted earlier. Ever since the williamses started their dominance on the tour (end 1999-present), Lindsay and Martina, well everyone has struggled, especially lindsay, who is 2-7 against Serena, and Venus has a better record with her also. How do you expect Venus or Serena to play Lindsay or Martina in the finals if they are always put ont he same sides of the draw? they didn't play enough to get there ranking to where it is right now. And really if you want to go by your standards of dominance through the years. what is Martina and Lindsay's record in Finals against Venus and Serena from end of 1999 to the present? I am picking that Venus and Serena started to dominate the tour from the end of 1999 to the preesnt b/c they have consistenly one slams and tournies from that span. Oh here you go. I found the stats.

end of 99- to the present, Lindsay and Martina against Venus and Serena in finals.

Venus vs. Lindsay (Finals)
1999- Stanford Hardcourt Lindsay Davenport (USA) 7-6(1) 6-2
1999- New Haven Hardcourt Venus Williams (USA) 6-2 7-5
2000- Wimbledon Grass Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 7-6(3)
2000- Stanford Hardcourt Venus Williams (USA) 6-1 6-4
2000- U.S. Open Hardcourt Venus Williams (USA) 6-4 7-5
2000- Linz Indoor Carpet Lindsay Davenport (USA) 6-4 3-6 6-2
2001- New Haven Hardcourt Venus Williams (USA) 7-6(6) 6-4

Serena vs. Lindsay (Finals)
1-0 (which shows you that her ranking is really why they never played in the final)
Since 1999 they have played:
RD32 1-Serena Won
Quarters 3- Serena 2-1
Semis 2- Serena 2-0
Finals 1- 2000- Los Angeles Hardcourt F Serena Williams (USA) 4-6 6-4 7-6

Serena vs. Martina (Finals)- played in the Quarters A LOT
1999-08-30 U.S. Open Hardcourt F Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 7-62000-08-14 Montreal Hardcourt F Martina Hingis (SUI) 0-6 6-3 3-0 ret (really not a win)

Venus vs. Martina(Finals)
1-1 (matches really 1 sided when they played)
1999- San Diego Hardcourt F Martina Hingis (SUI) 6-4 6-0
1999- Zurich Indoor Hardcourt F Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-4
But since 99' Venus is 7-4 againast Martina, and they played basically in the Semis nonstop!

So basically this shows that Venus and Serena are dominating. I could've showed you their matches against other players, but I just choose these two b/c you compared them from the start. But I can tell you that their record is also good against Cappy and Seles, and basically everyone else. So when you look at this, you still don't consider them dominating? You have to realize. Martina and Lindsay were 1 and 2 at the time I believe, that is how they were able to reach the finals. When Venus and Serena played them in the Finals, Semis, Quarters and even Round of 32 from 99 to now, there rankings up to this year were venus 3 and serena between 5-9. That is why they hardly ever played in the Finals. But also, when they did play in the Finals, they won against them. But really you don't have to look at it from winning in Finals. Winning all together they are Venus 7-4 with Martina since 99. 8-4 agaginst Lindsay. Serena is 7-4 against Hingis and is 6-1 against LIndsays since 99. This shows you that not only have they beaten them in finals, but they have been beating them and everyone else consistetnly since then. They are dominating. And now with Their rankings at 1-2 they are playing eachother in the Finals more, not Linday and Martina. Themselves. Does their Dominace come close yet?

Jul 19th, 2002, 01:15 PM
VenusSerena - OTOH, Martina won nine tournaments in 2000, including five Tier I's. Maybe her performance wasn't 'dominant', byt by definition, no on else's could have been either. To my mind, Venus and Serena really started being the TWO best players just about twelve months ago. That's when Serena really picked her game up.