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Infiniti2001
Jul 17th, 2002, 09:51 PM
will be a guest on CNN's Connie Chung Tonight on Cnn

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/connie.chung.tonight/

kay
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:11 PM
Yeah, it has something to do with some anti-American comments she made after 9-11 or at least that's what I heard. I dont know what she said, but she will soon find out the hard way to think before she speaks.

Sonja
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:13 PM
Ten dollars says whatever she said was either misquoted or misinterpreted.

joneg2
Jul 17th, 2002, 11:32 PM
Looking forward to watching a squirm her way out of this.:eek:

Zummi
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:07 AM
It was comments she made last month in "Die Zeit" and not after 9/11. And they weren't anti-American comments, mainly anti-Republican...

disposablehero
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Zummi
And they weren't anti-American comments, mainly anti-Republican...

From what we hear up here, that's the same thing. :cool:

ZAK
Jul 18th, 2002, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero


From what we hear up here, that's the same thing. :cool:
well its not:angel:

Lisbeth
Jul 18th, 2002, 01:37 AM
Martina is lovely and I'm not listening to any criticism :)

But I think I heard that what she said had something to do particular US politicians trying to stifle free speech regarding their actions while criticising other nations for doing the same thing. From down here in Aus, that looks like a position which very much supports true American values.

joneg2
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:02 AM
Anyone see it? Basically Martina has an agenda...her lifestyle being one of them; and she wants to be able to convince people to take up her causes. That's pretty American... however, she never really addressed a few of the tough questions that was asked her like, "I left one supressive regime for another". Connie repeated, "were you quoted correctly here?" To which Martina stammered, squirmed and danced around the proverbial bush!

Whatever you say Martina... you were a great, great player. Leave it at that!:rolleyes:

Hulet
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:21 AM
sorry, I didn't watch this show since I don't like CNN. But, can anyone elaborate what was the 'anti-american' comment she made? Is it just "I left one supressive regime for another"? If that is it, it's pathetic. But, if more, someone else describe it or provide a link. thanks.

Zummi
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:35 AM
That was the quote that got all the right-wingers all worked up.

I watched the interview and I didn't see where Martina "stammered, squirmed and danced around the proverbial bush". Connie asked her if she was or was not misquoted. This is what Martina said, and I'm quoting her "EXACTLY":

Martina: I don't think I said it exactly in that context. I certainly didn't mean that I'm here in a Communist country and that I can't be what I want to be. However, when it comes to personal freedom, as a lesbian, I am getting more squished here than I would be in Europe or...

Connie: Czechoslovakia?

Martina: Well, Czechoslovakia, in a Communist country... hello, they send you to the assylum.

Connie: There you go...

Martina: This is a whole different story.

Mark43
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:51 AM
Martina is, along with Billie Jean King and Arthur Ashe, one of the most intelligent and thoughtful public sports figures of the past several decades. She speaks her mind. She is forthright and brutally honest. She does not censor herself, yielding to sponsors or public opinion. Basically, she is a smart cookie who doesn't give a rat's ass what people think.

From her comments about Magic Johnson in 1991 to this recent controversy, I applaud Martina for speaking her mind. And what a lovely mind it is!

Okay, what's up with Connie Chung? She has gone downhill since chasing Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan all over the globe in 1994. I thought her interview skills were horrible and I think Martina should have simply interviewed herself. This was the first time I watched her show and unless someone on the board alerts me that another tennis player will be making an appearance, this will be the last. Connie spent about 30 mins talking to some Orange Co. policemen and then closed with a quote from the missing girl...'I am as strong as Hercules'...blah blah. It was embarrassing.

polishprodigy
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:56 AM
"Well Martina, if you don't like America, why don't you go back to Czechoslovakia?"

...Ahh.. a classic American and Republican remark. :rolleyes: (Might I add that Czechoslovakia seized to exist a decade ago)

It is so sad to see Connie Chung (who I have long respected prior to this interview with Navratilova) stoop to this low level of media sensationalization. Martina's well justified remarks (and yes even the one about the regimes) were idiotically perceived as "anti-American" and "anti-patriotic".

You know, as soon as I realized that Americans somehow elected George W. Bush (yet another Bush, oh god) as president of the U.S. (might I add Gore wouldn't have been much better, but atleast more tolerant), I knew a travesty had occurred. For after 9/11 and even before 9/11, Bush's republican policies were deemed to be ignorant, idiotic and full of a complete disregard for any non-economic concerns. The free speech of the average citizen been squashed in this ultra-right-wing REGIME. (might I add that I am conservative) For fear of being labelled "anti-patriotic", particularly after 9/11, Americans have been forced to keep their mouths shut. Bush has selfishly used this tragedy as a weapon against the American people, using it to deter criticism of his "controversial" policies, as he has falsely convinced the media that anti-Bush remarks are Anti-American and Anti-patriotic remarks.

As a Canadian, I am sad to see America in such a sad state of affairs under this silly and prejudicial administration, as I know my country (Canada) will continue to be bombarded and heavily influenced negatively by the American "world power". (ie. Alaska pipeline, softwood lumber) It is mind-boggling to ssee how Bush has managed to bring about a manipulative and false sense of American patriotism that restricts freedom of speech and ignores VALID world concerns. I feel deeply sympathetic towards the the families of those who died in 9/11, but this tragedy does not justify Bush's horrible policies. For it was quite evident they would come into effect prior to 9/11. I CONGRATULATE Martina on taking a stand in trying to offer some suggestions to improve her adopted homeland of America. I encourage more Americans to take a similar stance regardless of background, religion or race (Czech-born, who cares, does that mean her opinion is worth less?) For the world and Americans must stop giving into the growing trend of hypocrisy, stupidity and disregard for other cultures and conflicting concerns, which exists in American policies and government, most particularly under the Bush administration. I hope this ridiculous sensationalization by the media of Anti-bush remarks will stop immediately. Again, THANKYOU Martina for your brave and insightful remarks. :kiss:

To Connie Chung and CNN: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

R. DIS
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:33 AM
Maritna is just spoiled and being a baby. Because she's unhappy and not getting what she wants, she has to make a big deal about it. Sorry Martina but that's life.

I also love how all the Canadians have to get involved and say stuff about Bush and his policies. He's done more for the US then any president has in years.

lleykifan
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:39 AM
I did not watch the show but she is American (i.e one of us unless dissent now autmatically means one is unAmerican) and she has the right to say whatever she wants without fear of retribution. It's in the Bill of Rights. Also, last time I checked the Republicans were not all that concerned about the welfare of women or the gay community.

- Proudly registered Independent in New York
- Dems and Reps can kiss my ****

Jakeev
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:42 AM
I take it every American person that posted in here agrees with every single thing we do as a country?

If you do, not only are ya just plain stupid, but you are more un-American than you seem to think Martina is.

Martina is probably one of the greatest supporters of our country. Heck, she is more educated about our society than probably 90 percent of everyone that even posts on this board.

Don't like what she has to say? That is your problem and I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror and decide what being American really means to you.

Alley
Jul 18th, 2002, 06:10 AM
Martina is a sorry excuse for an American. If she thinks the republicans are as bad as a communist regime, then I would be more than willing to buy her sorry behind a one way ticket to cuba or china so she can remember what communism is really like. Maybe then she will shut her trap.

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 06:13 AM
Martina said nothing wrong or anything even remotely unpatriotic. She merely spoke her mind about the current climate in america which stifles dissent and equates support for George Bush with support for the countrywhich couldn't be farther from the truth. However, in this climate saying anything even remotely critical is a recipe for disaster. I have to read european newspapers on the net if I want to know what is going on with myh country since American media will not print anything negative about Bush.

As for Connie Chung, she has gone to hell in a handbasket. Her show is the worse on t.v. and keeps getting worse each week. She looks like she is sedated and seems completely unprepared for her show. The show has gotten such bad reviews and poor ratings that I am hoping that it will mercifully be cancelled sometime soon. I am embarrassed for her. :eek:

R. DIS
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:16 AM
I think people have the Democrats and Republicans mixed up. Deomcrats are for more government power while Republicans are for less govern power. I don't belong to either party, I go for who is better.

anton
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:28 AM
at least she finally got some endorsements (lucy.com, Suburu, nike, puma, etc) after years of nothing.

Jakeev
Jul 18th, 2002, 08:13 AM
I stick to what i had to say after reading what Alley had to say........Another one who just doesn't get it......

essielewis
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:25 PM
(lucy.com, Suburu, nike, puma, etc)

When did she get these endorsements? Last time I saw her play tennis (at Eastbourne) she was wearing a "non-name" outfit. And that Suburu commercial has stopped running.

Martina has a right to say anything she wants to say about anything but she should realize she will be criticized by some people for saying it. It is the right of people who don't agree with her to say they don't agree with her.

And if she goes on Connie Chung then she should be prepared to stand up for what she believes. She made her comments in a German magazine/newspaper. Why didn't she do her talking in an American newspaper? Translations are not always reliable. If she wanted to say something about America she should have had it printed in English.:rolleyes:

I don't like Bush either but he's the elected President of the United States. He doesn't run the country by himself. He can't pass laws by himself. Besides, if everybody in the country dislikes him then they can vote him out of office in a couple more years.:p That's how it works in America. Nobody stays around forever.

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:41 PM
[i]
I don't like Bush either but he's the elected President of the United States. He doesn't run the country by himself. He can't pass laws by himself. Besides, if everybody in the country dislikes him then they can vote him out of office in a couple more years.:p That's how it works in America. Nobody stays around forever. [/B]

Hello? we tried that already(not voting for him) but he managed to wind up in the White House anyway. ;)

joneg2
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:42 PM
Essielewis...great post! And btw, about the translation thing... that's exactly what Martina was trying to rely on when she got a bit uncomfortable with one of her quotes. "That's not exactly what I meant....things get lost in the translation" Martina is outspoken and knew exactly what she was saying. And that is her right as an American....and mine to criticize! :wavey:

Mark43
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:29 PM
She looks like she is sedated and seems completely unprepared for her show.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Connie looks unprofessional and quite frankly, scared. Maybe she finally realized she IS actually married to Maury Povich!

tennischick
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Mark35
I was thinking the exact same thing. Connie looks unprofessional and quite frankly, scared. Maybe she finally realized she IS actually married to Maury Povich!

LMFAO!!! you crack me up. :eek: :eek:

barmaid
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:46 PM
polishprodigy, Thanks for your very intelligent post re: Martina Navratilova and her interview with Connie Chung. I agree with your analysis of the Bush administration and the U.S. policies.
I guess thats why you're a "prodigy";)


barmaid:wavey:

Andromeda
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:07 PM
How about that freudian slip Martina made regarding Jodie Foster?

griffin
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Jakeev
I take it every American person that posted in here agrees with every single thing we do as a country?

If you do...you are more un-American than you seem to think Martina is.



Well said!

It never fails to amaze and sadden me that we tout how great America is because we have "freedom" and "rights" but then as soon as someone tries to excercize one of those freedoms - like freedom of speech, or the right to (non-violently) dissent, they are labeled "unAmerican"

It's one thing to say she's wrong, it's another to call her a traitor of suggest she go back to Czechoslovakia (and honey unless your native tongue is Navajo or Algonquin...:rolleyes: )

GogoGirl
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:23 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/stories2/2002-07-18-2002-07-18-navratilova_x.htm



07/18/2002 - Updated 01:17 AM ET



Navratilova critical of Bush, policies

By Don Cronin, USA TODAY


Tennis great Martina Navratilova, a U.S. resident for 27 years, isn't happy with what she sees as an oppressive Bush administration and compared it to her native Czechoslovakia. Navratilova was quoted in a German newspaper as saying, "The most absurd part of my escape from the unjust system is that I have exchanged one system that suppresses free opinion for another. The Republicans in the U.S. manipulate public opinion and sweep controversial issues under the table. It's depressing. Decisions in America are based solely on the question of how much money will come out of it and not on the questions of how much health, morals or environment suffer as a result."




By Brian Snyder, Reuters
Martina Navratilova, left, remains outspoken.

Asked about the statement Wednesday on CNN's Connie Chung Tonight, Navratilova stuck by her comment.

"Well, that's pretty accurate," she told Chung. "I was talking about the Bush administration making a lot of environmental decisions ... based on money, pandering to the people that perhaps help put Bush in the office."

Asked by Chung if she believed she was trading one regime for another, Navratilova again was critical of the president.

"Obviously, I'm not saying this is a communist system, but ... after (Sept. 11 terrorism), there's a big centralization of power," she said. "Bush is having more and more power. ... Americans are losing their personal rights left and right."

"When it comes to personal freedom as a lesbian, I am getting more squished here than I would be in Europe. ... As a woman, as a lesbian, as a woman athlete, there is a whole bunch of barriers that I've had to jump over, and we shouldn't have to be jumping over them any more. I may run for office one of these days and really make a difference."

Navratilova, a winner of 167 singles titles on the WTA Tour, also expresses a dislike for overbearing parents of young athletes. "If Richard Williams (father of Nos. 1 and 2-ranked Serena and Venus Williams) had danced in front of me after I had lost to one of his daughters in a match, I probably would have hit him."

irma
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:25 PM
since nav doesn't like Bush(and for once I agree with her). did that idiot really start a campagne against condoms last week? what an incredible stupid idiot :fiery: )(okee this is off topic but I need to get rid of it)

Zummi
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:28 PM
Martina didn't talk to an American newspaper b/c she wasn't asked to. I doubt many American newspapers would carry an article such as the one Martina wrote in "Die Zeit". As Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman warned them, "You need to watch what you say, watch what you do..."

And Martina's comment about exchanging one oppressive system for another, in terms of gay rights, was nothing new. She made that "EXACT SAME COMMENT" on Larry King Live in August 1999 during a show on gay marriage rights and there was no controversy about it then.

P.S. for the visually challenged, Martina is playing in "Puma" outfits. The Puma logo is clearly visible on her tennis outfits.

Hulet
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:42 PM
woohoo....martina for president.

Sonja
Jul 18th, 2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by R. DIS
I also love how all the Canadians have to get involved and say stuff about Bush and his policies. He's done more for the US then any president has in years.

I need an example, cause I'm not seeing that he's done anything...

griffin
Jul 18th, 2002, 04:16 PM
He made Paul Cellucci ambassador...oh wait, that was doing Massachusetts a favor (unless you count the bookies in Toronto)

http://www.tnfj.com/Images/Smilies/biglaughA.gif

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by R. DIS

I also love how all the Canadians have to get involved and say stuff about Bush and his policies. He's done more for the US then any president has in years.

I can honestly say without reservation that this is the most hysterical thing I have ever heard. I don't ask much. Just give me ONE example of how Bush has done more for the US then any president has in years. Just ONE!

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 04:56 PM
I never got a check from the Government due to a tax cut before even filing the next tax return. I never got that with Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, or Clinton.

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Helen Lawson
I never got a check from the Government due to a tax cut before even filing the next tax return. I never got that with Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, or Clinton.

That $300 or $600 rebate will cost you much more than thatin the long run. Trust me you will be giving it back. Thanks to that cut we went from being flush in surplus from the fiscally sound policies of the Clinton administration to a 165 billion dollar deficit. And please don't blame 9/11 for the deficit. Bush had already spent the money with the tax cut that we could have used on the military actions we are undertaking around the world. Oh and Reagan cut taxes like crazy too thus running up unprecedented deficits thereby dooming the presidency of Bush I.

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:08 PM
Now you're arguing. You wanted one thing. I gave it to you. Whether it was fiscally sound or not is up in the air. But no President has given money back to tax payers in that fashion before. Never. Whether I pay for it down the line is arguable. I could die tomorrow! Even if I pay for it down the line, I would rather have it now and pay later than never have it.

Mark43
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:19 PM
How about that freudian slip Martina made regarding Jodie Foster?
I am glad someone else caught that! It made me laugh how Connie Chung suddenly saw RATINGS and HUGE SCOUP dancing in front of her eyes as soon as Martina grouped Jodie in with herself and Rosie. She wanted to jump all over it but Martina realized what she had said and didn't let Connie get her headlining scoup du jour! Poor Connie!

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:25 PM
could someone please tell me what Martina said about j. foster?

To Helen Lawson:

touche. I don't agree with you but you are right I just asked for one thing. Not a debate.;)

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 05:34 PM
I am not a fan of Bush. With Reagan and the rest, the tax payer never saw the money from all that spending. At least with Bush, normal tax payer individuals got cold hard cash in the mail unsolicited. Whether it was buying votes or not or whether he really cared or not, who cares. I did not. I like cash. No president has ever done that for me before! Wise or not, who cares. Reagan's ways were not wise AND I never saw a cent of it. If Bush made a mistake, at least I got the temporary benefit.

darinls
Jul 18th, 2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Helen Lawson
I am not a fan of Bush. With Reagan and the rest, the tax payer never saw the money from all that spending. At least with Bush, normal tax payer individuals got cold hard cash in the mail unsolicited. Whether it was buying votes or not or whether he really cared or not, who cares. I did not. I like cash. No president has ever done that for me before! Wise or not, who cares. Reagan's ways were not wise AND I never saw a cent of it. If Bush made a mistake, at least I got the temporary benefit.

I believe this is one of the things Martina was talking about...greed. How does it affect me...and only me? So the Republicans wish to oppress others. No big deal. It doesn't affect me. As long as I've got my check, I'm happy.

I agree with Martina.

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 06:26 PM
I have not amassed $20 million plus in my career either so maybe Martina's thoughts on greed are a little skewed due to her own past earnings. If I had $20 million in career earnings I would be Mother Theresa Miss Charity. I do not have that option.

Dawn Marie
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:11 PM
Just because you don't agree with everything about America does not mean someone is ANTI-American.

Hell I can mention alot of things about this country I don't like, but I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Every other place and country has their problem, yes CANADA too, and I prefer at the moment to stick with America.

harloo
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:13 PM
Helen Lawson I got the rebate, but I was dismayed when they deducted it from my tax payment this year. I really didn't realize it was to be given back. In reality, that mean's it's nothing but a loan.

I agree that Bush is now abusing his power by using 9/11 as a defense for his ridiculous policies. But in reality, all President's have used war as a vehicle to get their agenda flowing. They have the benefit of having a high approval rating, which allows them to manipulate the public in a sense. Bush's Policies on the enviornment are being compromised in order for Bush to please his coporate sponsers. It's shameful, and while I am independent, I see the manipulation is only going to increase.
And look at the whole Enron scandal, I don't see the Bush administration taking action fast enough, which leads me to believe they have some part in the scandal.

Martina has a right to speak out, but she she should expect to be heavily criticized. I maybe don't agree with and like some of the things she has to say, but she is not fake. I don't think what she had to say was anti-American, but the right will certainly spin it that way. Now as far as the lesbian thing, I don't understand what she is saying. She has to realize that everyone doesn't accept the gay community in the U.S. Now if she moved to San Francisco or something, he lifestyle might be more accepted. However, she can't expect everyone to accept her being gay. It's a sad truth, but it's just reality.

Hidden Stillness
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:18 PM
Every time I hear or read Martina Navratilova's opinions, my opinion of her only goes up. This thing with Connie Chung was so weird, I have to agree with Mark35 and midora that this relates more to her than to Martina. Recently, Phil Donahue came back to TV (now on MSNBC) after being off for 6 years, and many people, myself among them, were thrilled with that. Donahue is now on opposite C.C., and I think she is getting trounced. (They never like to let liberals get on the media, because as soon as you hear a liberal express opinions, conservatives by comparison really sound like the assholes they are.) All of Martina's opinions sounded commonsensical and pretty typical for her, so I don't know what the reaction was about. The corporate media is an "oppressive regime." When do you ever hear anti-corporate, feminist, labor union, consumer activist, environmental, middle-class or poor, pro-government social programs, etc. opinions--95% of the country? Weirdly, Connie Chung at least twice suggested that Martina go "back" to "Czechoslovakia" (?). Martina is an American. She was also too classy to suggest that Connie Chung go "back" to "China."
Just after the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, our attention distracted, Bush raided the Social Security fund and gave it to the biggest, most fascist corporations in the country, as part of a "tax credit" bill that further shifts all taxes from the rich onto all of us. The surplus that Clinton's policies had built up, after Reagan/Bush's debt, has now been destroyed--already!--and we are now a debtor nation again. Bush has destroyed the stock market, now collapsing, and along with Cheney is starting to be exposed as a corporate insider-stock-trading criminal, but was unpunished at the time because Bush's father was President! (By the way, how many innocent people have been killed by drunk-driving Bushes?) Every time a Bush scandal is exposed, we get more "terrorist attack" alerts--a crude, cynical thing to do to frightened New Yorkers, for example. One Federal dept. after another has been destroyed by Bush...And we elected Gore and Lieberman.
(About Canadians and their instant criticism; Remember the protests at the G7/G8 conference a few years ago in B.C.? The Canadians violently kept all the peaceful protesters away from the site, sprayed pepper spray in their faces, shot rubber bullets at them, and then there was supposed to be an inquiry to get to the bottom of it, and the inquiry all just...went away. Then just now the Jewish male in Toronto, stabbed to death by a male who hates Jewish people? Yes, Canadians are so "different."... Why don't you ever criticize yourselves?)
I wish the archconservative, corporate male media would ever give Navratilova a chance to express herself unimpeded.

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:33 PM
I am aware it was deducted but I got it many, many months early. That is better than waiting and is unprecedented. I was also simply giving a sarcastic response to a somewhat sarcastic question. I am not suggesting that Bush's administration should be hailed as one of the best because of the rebate. People wanted know one good thing he did and I responded. I think it was great. I have never seen so many people so "mad" about getting money early from the Government. If Clinton did these rebates I think many of you would think it was the best thing ever, but because Bush did it it was silly and foolhearty.

kay
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:34 PM
Hidden Stillness you are so right about the Bush family and the way Bush is handling his administration and spot on about the election.

I dont think that what Martina said was so bad, but she really has to realized that she is going to be heavily criticized. But you know, I think she's going to be criticized whether she speaks out or not, so she may as well express herself. I for one dont have a problem with her being gay, it's actually none of my business. However, I dont believe in homosexuality and you will never hear me say that I think it's right, but I also dont think that people should be discriminated against because they are homosexual. They should have the same rights and opportunities as everyone else in this country. Martina cant expect everyone in this country to agree with her on gay issues, it's just not going to happen. But good for her for speaking her mind about the Bush Admin. they are a big part of the problem with regard to the downfall of corporations like Enron, etc.

Mark43
Jul 18th, 2002, 08:14 PM
Weirdly, Connie Chung at least twice suggested that Martina go "back" to "Czechoslovakia" (?). Martina is an American. She was also too classy to suggest that Connie Chung go "back" to "China."
LOL!
Yeah, Hidden that seemed so prefabricated to me. I felt Connie was trying to be controversial to beef up her ratings and compete with O'Reilly, but it was painfully obvious that she was acting when she said that crap to Martina. They were both smiling, as if Connie or her producers approached Martina beforehand and let her know Connie was going to say these things. Donahue's initial ratings are much higher than CC's and I think her show is headed to the guillitine.

CC needs to stick to entertainment based 'news'.

Back to Martina, the main thing I took away from the interview last night was how refreshing her honesty and candor are. Martina intelligently states her views as if she were sitting in a cafe talking over coffee and bagels with a friend. She doesn't act like she is on 'tv', she is herself and I admire her for that.

Mark43
Jul 18th, 2002, 08:20 PM
I almost forgot...
midora, Martina grouped herself with Rosie O'Donnell and Jodie Foster when she was talking about how difficult it is for a famous lesbian to adopt kids and see that they are not affected by the media. Now we all know Jodie is gay but she didn't adopt her kids. It seemed natural to hear this and have the 3 women grouped together so it took Connie a few seconds to realize what Martina had just said. CC seemed to want to pounce on this as a whole new topic of discussion the outing of Jodie Foster by fellow dyke, Martina but Martina quickly realized what she had said and she back pedaled a bit and said Jodie didn't adopt.

Bella
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:27 PM
Helen, did you hear about the 65 billion dollar deficit and counting he just announced. Uh, he'll have it under control in about three years, after he and his cronies run another false energy crisis and sack us for trillions of unrecoverable monies again. Do you know when he took office in Texas it had a record surplus and he left it mired in debt after he gave a tax cut to the more affluent Texans? Gee, he's doing it again. Who would of guessed? The average family got about 60 cents a day–not enough to cover the increased energy bills.

Helen Lawsons and R. Dises and Alleys and election fraud and a complicit Supreme court are why George is in office. We have to live with the typical Republican massive business fraud and skyrocketing debt while he is there. He hasn't done one positive thing. As far as his bullshit about "corporate business fraud", he's the reason the exec's feel free to loot and are doing so. Do you see Ashcroft doing anything about it? Predictable.

Did you notice, R. Dis, who is trying to create a huge new government bureaucracy as well as get a police force to answer to him? Republicans politicians always say "less goverment" and always create more. Republican voters believe what they are told by their leaders and not what is in front of their faces.

I see Connie is still a crappy journalist.

Jody Foster, huh? :eek:

Weevee
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:36 PM
I am from Canada but please don't blame Canada for anything I say.
I don't know what Martina said. I was very disppointed by some comments she made about V/S but I believe she is an intelligent woman and would not make unreasonable comments about America.
I believe that America has swung to the far right since 911. Bush who started out badly and under whose aedministration the US has lost trillions of dollars in assets and millions of jobs has been praised because somebody got a check in the mail.
Ontario/Canadians rejected tax cuts (according to polls) but their government gave them checks in the mail anyway. A check in the mail is not an acceptable substitute for good government.
The democrats say that the problems in America's economy are because of the tax cuts. I agree with that. Government is not free. Giving a few millionaires a few more millions is the reason why Republican administrations and to a little less extent Democratic administrations don't have the resources to keep their country secure.
I doubt that 911 would have happened if the security arm of government had been better funded and better run.
I've lived in America, New York is my favourite city in the whole world (lots of blacks) but I have been in places that I consider better than America. The UN rates Toronto above any city in America.

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:48 PM
Bella how do you know whom I voted for? Contrary to popular belief, some Democrats like money. If you think Enron and the rest turned dirty over the last 18 months, think again. It takes years for a company to crash like it did. The budget crisis is hardly due to his tax cut. I said this before and I will say it again. When you lose half or more of your income to taxes and get virtually nothing in return in terms of health care and the like as is enjoyed elsewhere you become much more aware of taxes and appreciate tax cuts more. Call me Satan. Call me whatever you like. If you live in America and lose half or more of your pay and do so with a smile on your face, you are a bigger person than me, but I am not.

Bella
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:04 PM
"Call me Satan". Nice tactic. Exaggerate my statements and play the victim.

Yes, the budget crisis is due to the tax cuts. The energy crisis I referred to did not have anything to do with the Enron accounting scandal–that came long after the false energy crisis. Energy crisis. Accounting and business fraud. Two things. No it doesn't take years for a company to crash like that. Do you read the papers?

Helen Lawson
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:22 PM
Do you? "Call me Satan" was a general reference. You did not call me Satan. I am certainly not a victim and do not wish to be viewed as such. Just because people are in favor of lower taxes does not make them mass-media idiots who fall prey to Republican jargon as you seem to suggest. Contrary to some popular belief, many "educated" and "rational" people cast votes for Bush. Just because they do not share your political views and goals does not make them stupid or should subject them to scorn. I do not pejoratively reference those who have different goals and interests than myself. Some make voting decisions based on tax cuts. This does not make them stupid or "conned." My point here is that until you lose half your paycheck to federal income taxes do not be so quick to criticize those who dislike it.

Bella
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:42 PM
And, by the way, it was just about 18 months. From one deal in 1999, to another in 2000, (Condor and Raptor deals) to the collapse in 2001. Executives made money on deals and mortgaged a company and then, yea, did make off with a lot of California's money in 2000. (Once, again: Separate scandal.)

Well, if I didn't know before who you voted for, we all do now. The only thing I said that could offend (unless you just didn't like my politics and are mad about that) was "Republican voters believe what they are told by their leaders and not what is in front of their faces." You translated that into stupid. I call it illusion. And don't put "conned" in quotes when it is not a quote. You paraphrased. (Accurately, I might add, and I stand by that statement. I believe it is absolutely accurate.)

You are right: I've never paid half. Stop bragging about your tax bracket. We all pay and the belt-tightening isn't being done by your bracket. Less spending on luxuries, by the way, isn't how families are fighting the increase in overhead and the decrease in their investment accounts.

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:35 PM
Helen Lawson,

RDis claimed in his post that Dubya was the best president this country has had in years. I asked him, without sarcasm mind you to name ONE thing good that Dubya had done. You responded with the tax cut and followed that up with an acknowledgement on your part that 1) the cut was not what you thought it was and 2) it might have detrimental long term effects. IMO, by your own admission this cannot be a good thing and cannot be something good that Dubya has done.

True YOU might like the short term gain (tell me do you remember what you did with the money), but if it hurts the country in the long run, it cannot be a good thing. I do not argue that people who voted for or support Bush are stupid or naive but I am curious about thier thinking. I personally see NO benefit whatsoever to his presidency and in fact see only bad things. In the less than two years he has been president he has

1. evicerated the federal surplus
2. undermined American credibility in the Internationl arena
3. conducted a dubious and at times dangerous foreign policy
4. presided over an administration that has obliterated civil rights in this country including the Patriot Act,the new TIPS program, and the proposal of various other measures that are downright unamerican and unconstitutional
5. attempted to destroy any meaningful environmental and energy policy including trying to substantially weaken the Clean Air Act, repealed Clinton Administration regulation regarding the amount of allowable arsenic in drinking water, refused to sign onto the Kyoto Treat and preposterously proposed that we allow companys to SELF regulate when it comes to environmental compliance
6. presided over the most secretive administration since Richard Nixon including his refusal to turn over Energy task force documents and his refusal to allow the SEC to release the full record of its investigation into his chicanery and crimes involving Harken Energy.
7. embarrassed this country with his constant malapproprisms and total inability to understand the fundamentals of domestic and international policy
I could go on but you have got the picture.

R. DIS
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:51 PM
I can't see too many presidents that would have gotten US thru 9/11 like Bush has. You people really have to get over the fact that Gore lost quite being such sore losers. You all need to grow up because he's gonna be our prez for years to come.

Midora, you and your friends around here are obviously in the minority because Bush has a 70% approval rating. LOL you sound like an idiot trying to bring him down with no good evidence.

midora
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by R. DIS
I can't see too many presidents that would have gotten US thru 9/11 like Bush has. You people really have to get over the fact that Gore lost quite being such sore losers. You all need to grow up because he's gonna be our prez for years to come.

Midora, you and your friends around here are obviously in the minority because Bush has a 70% approval rating. LOL you sound like an idiot trying to bring him down with no good evidence.

Uh, anyone can drop bombs on a backward country.Bush didn't do anything anyone else couldn't have done. By the way, Where's Osama?

Hmm. I sound like an idiot. I gave you 8 fact specific reasons why he sucks. All you have are insults. But based on my reading of your other posts this is just par for the course. You are the PERFECT Bush supporter. Keep up the good work!

R. DIS
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:11 AM
Well Clinton who was in office for 8 years couldn't do anything about Osama or the country. And we all know Gore would naver have done anything, he wanted peace with the country.

midora
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by R. DIS
Well Clinton who was in office for 8 years couldn't do anything about Osama or the country. And we all know Gore would naver have done anything, he wanted peace with the country.

okay clearly you are at a disadvantage because your statement tells me you know not from whence you speak. Bill Clinton presided over the most prosperous era in this country's history. When he entered office after the disaster that was Bush I, the country was saddled with crippling deficits, high interest rates and a general malaise. Clinton evicerated the deficit and instituted sound fiscal policy that even the Repubs can't argue about. He also restored credibility,fairness and intelligence to our foreign policy all over theworld. And if you want to know about his effectiveness regarding terrorist thugs, ask Slobodan Milosevic who is on trial in the Hague because of Clinton's Serbian campaign. And point of edification, George Bush tried to make peace with Afghanistan(I am assuming that is the country you are referring to). His administration was set to send 100s of millions of dollars to the Taliban just before 9/11.

Read a newspaper and a book and get a clue please. The stakes are too high not to.

Bella
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:27 AM
Midora, m'dear, good points.

R. DIS
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:27 AM
I see you and the other democrats still believe Clinton did some thing those eight years. Bush I did all the hard work but Clinton took credit for it. And I don't give a F*** what you say becuase Bush II will be elected again and be prez for many more years. Your the PERFECT democrat supporter. Keep up the good work!!!! But it won't help.

Mark43
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:07 AM
Now this is getting embarrasing...many evil doers on this board...the bad guys are here!

polishprodigy
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by R. DIS

I also love how all the Canadians have to get involved and say stuff about Bush and his policies. He's done more for the US then any president has in years. [/B]

Ahh, another arrogant Republican remark. Excuse me, but Mr. George W. Bush who managed to get himself "elected" as president (Hmm...what a coincidence, his brother Jeb Bush is the governor of Florida, the state that gave him the electoral votes to win the election after intense recounts) has done nothing but bad things for America, as already mentioned by many. About this Canadian thing, well let me explain some of the American hypocrisy. Ok, Republicans have long proposed an oil pipeline to be built in Alaska, which Canada objects to as it would disturb caribou migration. A staunch Republican told Canada "I would like to tell our good friends up north ( :rolleyes: ) to mind their own business." Well when Canada was continuing to have relations with Communist Cuba, the same Republican senator made a statement that Canada should follow the U.S.' stance on Cuba, through an embargo that is only hurting the Cuban people. Well shouldn't AMERICA "mind their own business" ???? :rolleyes: HYPOCRISY! :rolleyes: And about this Jewish man who was killed by a White man in Toronto, it has not been concluded that this was a hate crime, so don't jump to any conclusions like the media (especially the American one) does. :rolleyes:

Thankyou Barmaid for recognizing the stupidity, ignorance and hypocrisy existing in Bush's policies and the American system and government in general. :)

Its so sad how a brother and father helped get this idiot into office. :rolleyes:

R. DIS
Jul 19th, 2002, 03:29 AM
I guess that's why our country's a world super power and your's isn't.

earthcrystal
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:35 AM
R.DIS you define MORON. (Guess that's why you so vehemently defend the one that was "selected" to occupy the Oval Office). That said, I can move on to discussion with people that actually possess a working brain.

polishprodigy, midora, and Hidden Stillness - excellent posts. I've little to add as far as content, but I wanted to say that I'm encouraged to see that there are people here on these boards who see the current state of affairs in the U.S. as they really are.
I join you in applauding Martina in vocalizing what most of the intellectuals (the majority of whom are incidentally NOT repugnicans-(sic)) in the U.S. are saying to each other behind closed doors.

Bush Part II is just an extension of Bush Part I, (with an all too brief respite) in using every trick in the book to further their dubious agendas. That this administration would stoop to exploit the tragic events of 9/11 and the resulting surge in patriotism by critisizing everything not in alignment with their agendas as UnAmerican is not at all surprising. But it certainly is sickening.

Kudos, kudos and more kudos to Martina for being courageous enough to speak the truth in a time when most people who feel the same as she does remain tight-lipped for fear of the UnAmerican label, most pointedly some of the "liberal" politicians. Waving the flag and calling for a salute to all "they" stand for - with dissention resulting in that label...does this remind anyone of a past era in a American history?

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" makes the negative responses to Martina's comments (both here and in the media) all the more frightening.

There is, however, reason for hope. 1) Phil is back! 2)Dubya's approval rating of 70% might be frightening, but Americans are a fickle lot. Daddy had 90% after the Gulf war--and still ended up a very lame duck. Let's hope Junior continues to follow in his footsteps.

Dawn Marie
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:50 AM
Excellent post earthcrystal:) You tell em!

I for one think Bush will not get re-elected I like to think the average American voter is alot smarter then what the damn poll suggest.:)

R. DIS
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:15 AM
earthcrystal, you can call me names all you want. It says more about you then it does about me. Typical democrats always ganging up and resorting to name calling.

earthcrystal
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:29 AM
Hi Dawn, and thanks. :D

I just located the transcript for this. Some of Connie Chung's comments and questions were positiviely disgusting! I had no idea! But Martina handled them with perfectly...making Chung look like a fool (they way it reads anyway) in process.


For those who didn't read it, or see show:

CHUNG: We wanted to ask her about the controversy, so we asked the tennis legend and now TNT tennis analyst to join us tonight, and she agreed. Welcome, Martina. It's so good to see you.

NAVRATILOVA: Thank you very much. Nice to be here.

CHUNG: All right. I'm going to read what was said, a quote from that German newspaper. Quote: "The most absurd part of my escape from the unjust system is that I have exchanged one system that suppresses free opinion for another. The Republicans in the U.S. manipulate public opinion and sweep controversial issues under the table. It's depressing. Decisions in America are based solely on the question of how much money will come out of it and not on the questions of how much health, morals or environment suffer as a result."

So, is that accurate?

NAVRATILOVA: Well, that's pretty accurate. I mean, I was talking about the Bush administration making a lot of environmental decisions, again, based on money pandering to the people that perhaps help put Bush in the office. I was talking about a particular amendment that I know about. There was a vote that was about education. It was a good bill. And then they try to sneak in that Alaska Wildlife Refuge drilling. It's like, by the way, we're going to drill but we don't really need to know that we're going to do it.

CHUNG: All right. So, all of these things are things that you are passionate about?

NAVRATILOVA: Absolutely. And I think, you know -- and also what I said was that I wish people would make their decisions based on their hearts, not on their wallets. Now, the translation, keep in mind that I said this in English, then it's translated into German and then it's translated back into English again. And one of the translations that I got that was in a English newspaper said that I wish people would make their decisions based on their hearts, not on their diaries, OK. So, this is -- some of it gets lost in the translations. A lot of this stuff gets lost in the translation.

CHUNG: But what about that one key sentence, I think, "the most absurd part of my escape from the unjust system is that I've changed one system that suppresses free opinion for another?" You're trading one regime for another. I mean, that's I think one of the main quotes that raised so much ire.

NAVRATILOVA: Well, obviously, I'm not saying this is a communist system, but I think we're having -- after 9/11, there's a big centralization of power. President Bush is having more and more power. John Ashcroft is having more and more power. Americans are losing their personal rights left and right. I mean, the ACLU is up in arms about all of the stuff that's going on right now.

CHUNG: So you were or weren't misquoted in that particular -- you know, regarding that particular sentence of trading one regime for another?

NAVRATILOVA: I don't think I said it exactly in that context. I certainly didn't mean that I'm here in a communist country and that I can't be what I want to be. However, when it comes to personal freedom as a lesbian, I am getting more squished here than I would be in Europe or in...

CHUNG: In Czechoslovakia.

NAVRATILOVA: Well, Czechoslovakia, in a communist country, they sent you into the asylum. This is a whole different story.

CHUNG: Can I be honest with you? I can tell you that when I read this, I have to tell you that I thought it was un-American, unpatriotic. I wanted to say, go back to Czechoslovakia. You know, if you don't like it here, this a country that gave you so much, gave you the freedom to do what you want.

NAVRATILOVA: And I'm giving it back. This is why I speak out. When I see something that I don't like, I'm going to speak out because you can do that here. And again, I feel there are too many things happening that are taking our rights away.

CHUNG: But you know what? I think it is, OK, if you believe that, you know, then go ahead and think that at home. But why do you have to spill it out? You know, why do you have to talk about it as a celebrity so that people will write it down and talk about what you said?

NAVRATILOVA: I think athletes have a duty to speak out when there is something that's not right, when they feel that perhaps social issues are not being paid attention to. As a woman, as a lesbian, as a woman athlete, there is a whole bunch of barriers that I've had to jump over, and we shouldn't have to be jumping over them any more.

CHUNG: Got you. But sometimes, when you hear celebrities saying something, do you ever say to yourself, I don't care what so and so thinks, you know. Yes, go ahead and say whatever you want to say. But you're not a politician. You're not in a position of government power or whatever.

NAVRATILOVA: No. And I just might do that. I may run for office one of these days and really do make a difference. But...

CHUNG: Are you kidding me?

NAVRATILOVA: No, I'm not. One of these days, hopefully. But when you say go back to Czech Republic, why are you sending me back there? I live here. I love this country. I've lived here 27 years. I've paid taxes here for 27 years. Do I not have a right to speak out? Why is that unpatriotic?

CHUNG: Well, you know the old line, love it or leave it.

NAVRATILOVA: I love it and I'm here and I'm trying to do my best to make it a better place to live in, not just this country, but the whole world. And, you know, I'm doing my little part. And I'm just a tennis player.

CHUNG: All right. Let's go on to another subject. And it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart because we adopted. You had indicated that you were thinking of adopting. But you were talking about it for a long time. But just recently, you talked about adoption and, you know, it was all over -- it was headlines again.

NAVRATILOVA: Right. Well, I think I'm making headlines more now because I played singles in one tournament. I've been playing more tennis. And so I'm more in the public eye.

CHUNG: After a seven-year...

NAVRATILOVA: But after seven years of not playing singles, but I just played this one little tournament. But I've been talking about perhaps adopting for 20 years. And all of a sudden, it became news, and it's now again the quote was changed. I said, one day I might adopt. I would like to adopt. And out of that comes I'm adopting right now.

And I'm getting kids writing to me, they want to be adopted by me because they don't like their parents. I'm getting adoption agencies telling me, yes, we get a newborn for you right away. I'm having surrogate mothers calling me saying they're ready to bear my child, whatever. I'm like, whoa. And, you know, that really made me realize these poor kid or kids would be under so much scrutiny that I don't really want to do this.

CHUNG: Oh, no.

NAVRATILOVA: Yes. No, I think I can...

CHUNG: You mean that has caused you to say you're not going...

NAVRATILOVA: I think it's really made me rethink the whole thing. I think it would be better that I help kids along the way as I have done over the years. I had (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in that youth foundation that helped underprivileged children, et cetera, et cetera.

I think I would rather just do my work from a distance and spend time with my friends' and family's kids. My sister has a baby, you know, and take care of my animals and take care of the environment and help from a distance. But what I would have to go through with this kid to protect him or her from the media scrutiny as Rosie O'Donnell has to do, Jodie Foster, I mean, these women, you know, have to go to the earth's lengths to protect these kids from that kind of scrutiny. So, I don't really know.

CHUNG: Forgive me. You mentioned Jodie Foster, but forgive me, I'm not aware that she has...

NAVRATILOVA: Well, single mothers. I'm talking about single mothers. I'm not talking about just lesbians.

CHUNG: OK. So you honestly think you're not going to adopt? I mean, you know, that breaks my heart because I think that, you know, because adoption is wonderful. We wouldn't have our son if we didn't adopt.

NAVRATILOVA: Absolutely it is, but I'm rethinking it. And I'm certainly -- if I ever do do it, I'm not going to say it to anybody because, you know, private life is private and it needs to be kept that way.

CHUNG: All right. Well, if you call me, I appreciate it anyway, just to tell me privately, because I'd be happy for you.

NAVRATILOVA: Thank you.

CHUNG: Thank you so much, Martina. Appreciate it.

NAVRATILOVA: All right. Thank you.

CHUNG: Well, you know the old line, love it or leave it.

:eek: I can't believe she actually dredged up that old tired cliche' used so often against anyone who dares to critisize! Does Connie even possess a vague idea of how our system of government works?!

Historically, if people thought like that, can you imagine? Women wouldn't be voting, we'd still have segregation, no strike that, we'd still have slavery! I could go on and on, I'm so steamed.

Hey, Connie, news flash! Your "love it or leave it" when out with McCarthyism. Intelligent, motivated, dedicated, and courgeous people have a new way:

Love it or FIX it!

*ec steps down off her soapbox* ;)

earthcrystal
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:33 AM
uR.DISgusting: Careful, your ASSumptions are making an ASS out of you per usual.

I'm not a Democrat. Here's a hint: I belong to the party that is the same color you turn with envy whenever you read posts of intelligent people. (Because you're too brainwashed and/or ignorant to actively engage in intelligent dialogue.)

R. DIS
Jul 19th, 2002, 05:44 AM
Your making a fool out of yourself with all these cheap insults, and you think you can engage in intelligent dialouge, please!!!!!!!!

earthcrystal
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by R. DIS
Your making a fool out of yourself with all these cheap insults, and you think you can engage in intelligent dialouge, please!!!!!!!!

I never said a word about engaging in "dialouge"...since I haven't a clue what that would be (sounds perverted, probably right up your alley!)

uR.DISturbed: Want to place a small wager on where the votes would fall on who's a fool in this exchange? Oh never mind, you're absolutely not worth the finger exercise I get in typing these responses.

Sorry, people for the digression, sparring with IT is good for a few laughs now and then. It's just such easy pickins I can't resist. ;)


:kiss: for Martina, I'm off to bed.

Philbo
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:03 AM
Oh god I lOOOOOOOVE martina!!!!

Guys, you may agree or disagree with what she has to say, I dont care, but at least she says SOMETHING and stands up for what she beleives in...This is the essence of Martina and why I admire and love her...

I especially love the quote "CHUNG: Well, you know the old line, love it or leave it.

NAVRATILOVA: I love it and I'm here and I'm trying to do my best to make it a better place to live in, not just this country, but the whole world. And, you know, I'm doing my little part. And I'm just a tennis player.


You are more than 'just a tennis player' to me a nd many many others Martina, you are an inspiration, and example of how to be true to yourself, and you are an example of what a 'true american' is all about...

Dawn Marie
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:08 AM
I read the interview and I understand what Navratilova is talking about. I like her more and more these days. She is telling it like it is, and I am a bit embarressed for Connie Chung. Who by the way is my favorite journalist. Martina is talking the way, I would prefer alot of people who can get to the masses to talk. She is speaking from her heart and not with her wallet. Go Martina, and Connie piss poor interview from your end of things.


rolling eyes at R DIS

Freefall
Jul 19th, 2002, 07:15 AM
Navratilova > chung

treufreund
Jul 19th, 2002, 08:46 AM
Martinaaaaaaaa you are 100% spot on. Down with the evil corrupt Bush administration. Down with corporate pandering, fraud, racism, homophobia, hypocrisy, jingoism, environmental destruction, warmongering, censorship, dishonesty, bribery, irresponsible fiscal and taxation policies, arrogance and ignorance that characterize Bush and his cronies. Let's stop America's dangerous march to the loony right wing and massive deficits.

midora
Jul 19th, 2002, 11:42 AM
R.Dis

We are all still patiently awaiting your piercing and cogent analysis about the success of the Bush administration. And while you are at it, since you think that the Clinton administration's success was only based on the foundation laid down by Poppy Bush, please give us some examples of the success of the Bush I administration.

Examples , examples. Your public is anxiously waiting. :bounce:

Bright Red
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:25 PM
I like Senior Martina's style nothwithstanding that I often disagree with her opinions.

WOW!, (and to borrow a phrase from Forest Gump), opening a thread is like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get until you look inside. ;)

polishprodigy
Jul 19th, 2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by R. DIS
earthcrystal, you can call me names all you want. It says more about you then it does about me. Typical democrats always ganging up and resorting to name calling.

HYPOCRISY! :rolleyes: You Republicans so annoy me, as you get EVERYTHING WRONG! I am right-wing, yet I still disagree with Mr. Bush's policies.

Oh, and why isn't Canada not a world power like the U.S.?

1) We don't stand up for ourselves against the American government's selfish intimidating and stupid policies.
2) We do not resort to stupidity, ignorance and cowardly policies.
3) We don't have presidents who were "elected" into office because of family politicians (ie. father and brother)
4)We don't stoop to a low level of disregard for others, the environment, non-economic concerns and other cultures.
5) We don't make up silly reasons to punish another country for their success (ie. Potato warts in Canada and soft-wood lumber levy on Canadian goods)
6) We don't create a false sense of patriotism and democracy, and then criticize other nations for not doing the same. Bush's Capitalistic stance has gone to ultra-fanatic yet he has brainwashed so many Republicans and Americans that it is possible that his dad will guide him into power in the next election.
UNLESS AMERICANS LIKE MARTINA CONTINUE TO TAKE A STAND AND LET THEIR FREE SPEECH BE HEARD! :)
And you wonder why Bush's rating is 70%? Because most Americans do not want to criticize his policies for fear of being labelled "anti-american" or "anti-patriotic". Bush has manipulated the American public and media by selfishly using the 9/11 tragedy to prevent anyone from criticizing his policies, by creating this false sense of American patriotism. :rolleyes: So GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! I bet you were the first one to believe China, when they said there was a 98% approval ranking for the Olympics, where in other nations it was barely 65%. But you would believe the exaggerated number despite many indicators that proved otherwise. :rolleyes: The numbers do not always tell the story, and often they are not the true sense of the people!