PDA

View Full Version : Dokic sites shut down


MartianJoeyWinson
Jul 15th, 2002, 02:48 PM
The websites dokicnews.co.uk and jelena-online.com have effectively shut down as of now. dokicnews is no longer in operation, and jelena-online will cease from being updated further.

TS
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:13 PM
How come? Was jelena-online the one run by the poster Jay (and others)??

Nikola
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:16 PM
yes, it was Iva's #1 Fan

TS
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:19 PM
tx Nicola. Sorry to hear that.

Nimi
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:48 PM
why are they all shutting??

Jay
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:26 PM
They are shutting down because myself and Matt (webmaster of www.dokicnews.co.uk) feel that if we continue with the sites it will compromise our integrity.

selesrules
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:31 PM
In what sense... Did Dokic do something that I missed?

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:56 PM
What's going on? What would happen to make you feel that you would compromise your integrity?

katrientje
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:08 PM
Can't you go on for the sake of all your readers?
IMO jelena-online is THE best site dedicated to a player. You guys were doing such a great job!!!

Nikola
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:15 PM
sorry katrientje, but it wasn't my decision, if it was to me, I would still be there doing what I know the best

Come-on-kim
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:39 PM
What happened?

Russianfan
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:42 PM
There is a huge discussion about all of it going on on the message board of Jelena-dokic.com

http://www.jelena-dokic.com/board/

Be sure to read until the end or at least Jay's clarifications towards the end, as may things were said but I think it's important to hear from the boss of jelena-online.com in person:) It's on the third or fourth page of the topic..

mboyle
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:55 PM
What did Jelena/ or the Lilijana lady say? (I assume Lilijana is Jelena's Mom right?) So now do you not like Dokic Jay?

joneg2
Jul 15th, 2002, 06:46 PM
Jay...what happened?:eek:

Mark Spruce
Jul 15th, 2002, 07:14 PM
This is all SAD news, it was such a great site.

regards

Mark:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

joneg2
Jul 15th, 2002, 07:37 PM
I hope there is some news on this thread later...I have to go teach now.

Yeah...sad news. :confused:

nysaga
Jul 15th, 2002, 07:56 PM
I'm not surprised at all. Damir Dokic is one crazy man and the worst tennis parent of all time. The family came to Australia and Australia welcomed them and look at what happened in the end.

Hulet
Jul 15th, 2002, 08:22 PM
nysaga, so "what happened in the end"? Jelena and her family moved to a country where they feel comfortable living in; that is all that happened. It happens all the time. Nothing spectacular or a crime. I hate it when people harp on the personal decision of athlets. Live Damir Dokic alone. Jelena feels he has been and is still a good father to her. If you are her fan, that is all that matters.

Nikola
Jul 15th, 2002, 08:42 PM
Very soon there will be another new Jelena Dokic site.;)

pixy75
Jul 15th, 2002, 09:53 PM
Nikola, I expect new great site such as jelena-online!
Yep, Jelena online was incredible wonderful site.No doubt this is best tennis player site as official site. Jelena is so nice girl, cuz she has admitted this is her official site.

However, Jelena-online never update. But our fan spirits never fade out!
I bet I will post message to new site, Nikola:)

Go Jelena! you will get much better result than wimbly at next tournament(stanford)

CB
Jul 15th, 2002, 11:52 PM
ohh no! that's such a pity!
jelena-online is one of the best personal websites for sure ;)

venusfan
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:22 AM
can someone just stop beating around the bush and just tell us why the site is shutting down. I must admit, I've been to the site a couple of times. Just please tell us why the site is down, not tell us to go to message boards and checked. I'm at work and somehow my company blocked that site.

Greenout
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:46 AM
A pity!!


Sad to hear about the turmoil at the website.
Jelena-Online.com was one of the best tennis
player website around. It was full of facts,
interviews, observations, opinions and humour.


Too bad.

I hope everything goes well with Jay and the Crew.



P.S Nikola I'll look forward to the new site and
the brave new crew to come forth.

Cheers and Salutes to all!

nysaga
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:15 AM
Damir wanted Jay to write a negative story about Martina Navratilova and Jay refused. Bottomline, Damir Dokic is no good ..lol

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:19 AM
Is this true? Was DAmir paying Jay anything? If not how can he decide what is on that site and what is not?

venusfan
Jul 16th, 2002, 04:31 AM
We'll I'm not sure where that site is based, but so long as you don't make a profit off the site; A person can make a website on any person who's a public figure.

Dawn Marie
Jul 16th, 2002, 04:37 AM
So is this the real reason or what?

I mean you post a topic then say nothing!

I like Jelena sure she says some silly things and she is working herself into a serious injury but still she has got moxy!
So what happened???

Nikola
Jul 16th, 2002, 05:01 AM
Well I'm not sure Damir asked that, but EVEN IF HE DID, that was a private conversation, and I can't tell you what happened, but will try to bring these updates to Ljiljana today.
About our new site, well it will take some time to be as good as Jelena Online was.

Mattographer
Jul 16th, 2002, 05:55 AM
I already know it but I don't want tell you for what happened... it was really bad, actually.

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 06:02 AM
jay how did you get that WImbledon pass??? I'm jealous and may hack your JElena site!!:eek: :wavey:

Jay
Jul 16th, 2002, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Nikola
Well I'm not sure Damir asked that, but EVEN IF HE DID, that was a private conversation, and I can't tell you what happened, but will try to bring these updates to Ljiljana today.
About our new site, well it will take some time to be as good as Jelena Online was.

Nikola

don't you even dare for one second suggest that I have betrayed the Dokics or that I am at fault in this mess in any way or else there is going to be an eruption.

I will put my integrity up against that of the Dokic family any day of the week.

Yes it was a private conversation that I had with Damir, the contents of which that idiot wanted to me to publicise to the BBC and the press.

And on the eve of Wimbledon !

There are a lot of Jelena fans out there who are so desperately unhappy at what has happened that you are clutching at straws and trying to find excuses or some glimmer of hope that what has happened hasn't.

One fan said to me "It's always been that way with Jelena fans, they look for something that suggests Jelena is the person they want her to be and then they do their best to believe it."

You can shoot the messenger but it doesn't change the message.

Jay
Jul 16th, 2002, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by anton
Is this true? Was DAmir paying Jay anything? If not how can he decide what is on that site and what is not?

No one was paying anything to anybody. I have said it before and I will say it again. The total revenue of Jelena Online is ZERO.

The outgoings are huge by fan site standards and at no time did we ask or receive money from anyone including those large Yugo sites and Head who we are banner linked with. (admittedly I was considering going to them cap in hand if our bandwidth consumption continued to rise)

Can I remind you all that it is TWO websites that have shut down. The other site www.dokicnews.co.uk was an excellent site. Although it wasn't as large as jelena online it was fresh, had good content and was always updated in a timely fashion. You can't ask more than that from a site. It's title was "Unofficial but damn good !" which is a perfect description.

Myself and Matt are not prepared to continue on grounds of integrity.

Russianfan seems happy to carry on though.

Williams Rulez
Jul 16th, 2002, 08:47 AM
? :sad:

joneg2
Jul 16th, 2002, 10:32 AM
O.K. Jay... that explains a little bit more; although we are left to read much between the lines. Somehow this seems to be linked with the lawsuit involving Octagon. Is this true... can you comment on that? Thanks... and good luck!:wavey:

King Aaron
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:20 AM
..:sad:

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:21 AM
cant you just separate Jelena and her dad??? Steffi Graf's dad did some bad things too but her fans sites did not shut down.

Jay
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by joneg2
O.K. Jay... that explains a little bit more; although we are left to read much between the lines. Somehow this seems to be linked with the lawsuit involving Octagon. Is this true... can you comment on that? Thanks... and good luck!:wavey:

If you mean the WTA/Brixi/Octagon article that I wrote the answer is no. I think that was an important article and I have no regrets about publishing it even though it exposes me to the possibility of legal action. I did my very best to publicise that article to the press etc. but no one else (apart from one of the large Yugo sites) were prepared to take the risk that I did. That article is still on our site.

However Damir was very displeased with me that no one else was willing to publish that article. He couldn't understand that no one else was prepared to take the risk unless they had a direct quote from Jelena about it which Damir wouldn't allow (probably the only bit of good sense that Damir has shown in this whole affair).

I also have to point out that when I was first contacted by the Dokics they had no idea that I had contacts in the BBC etc. They were happy enough to have the Octagon story just on our website. They only became aware of my contacts some time later.

Russianfan has already posted a thread to his message board http://www.kousa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=819 which pretty much explains everything (well, about 50% of it but that's more than enough) and it isn't pretty reading.

As I said people can clutch at straws and look for holes or excuses in anything and come up with outlandish reasons as to why this is happening but I know the truth.

I even had a fan e-mail me with the suggestion that I am doing all this because I tried to hit on Jelena at Wimbledon and got rejected. Yeah sure, a young good looking tennis player who is currenty going out with a F1 driver (who was present at Wimbledon) is going to be interested in this middle aged balding mechanic who is married and has a 3 year old daughter.

Truth is truth and I know the truth. I don't care if some of the evidence I have is not good enough for a court of law. This is not a court of law. The evidence that I have along with what was told to me in person is more than good enough for me to know that I cannot and will not continue with the site.

And Nikola, as for getting a response from Ljiljana, I know what you are trying to do.

If you can't shoot the messenger then the next best thing is to discredit him in some way and that will discredit the message.

As I said I will put my reputation and integrity up against anyone in the Dokic family and I have no doubt that I will win everytime.

Penne1
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:27 AM
Steffi Graf's dad never inteferred with the content of websites that forced the webbies to question their integrity.

Making an official site is a great experience BUT you have to be strong about where you stand on it and be prepared to draw the line. YOU HAVE TO.....Jay and co. have made the right decision.

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:38 AM
so Damir asked Jay to publish lies????

irma
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:40 AM
Steffi Graf's dad never inteferred with the content of websites that forced the webbies to question their integrity.

LMAO when internet serious came of the grounds he was put away. Everybody knows that idiot tried to influence the german media and if internet would have been big that time, he would have wanted to have influence on that too.

irma
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:42 AM
but when Damir said something then what has Jelena to do with it?
It seems like something is missing!

Jay
Jul 16th, 2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by irma
but when Damir said something then what has Jelena to do with it?
It seems like something is missing!

Jeezz

It's already been posted twice. Here it is again.

http://www.kousa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=819

and again

http://www.kousa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=819

there's about 5 or 6 pages explaining what is 'missing'.

Penne1
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:40 PM
Irma,

Peter Graf influencing the German media??

Puulease :rolleyes:

That guy had shit for brains - he couldn't have done that even if he wanted to!

and the argument is not about whether Damir wanted to really it is about what you do when he does......

irma
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:17 PM
I didn't say it was a big succes but he tried :rolleyes:

joneg2
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:36 PM
Jay, thanks for your answers and patience. I'm headed over to the suggested threads to have a read. After that...I'm sure I will have all I need to know.

Btw, glad to see your still posting!:wavey:

mboyle
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:16 PM
OK if anyone read my post about my favorite players, Dokic goes to join her dad in tier five. .................................................. .............
Wait, make that challengers! There is no way I can possibly compare her family and Justine (who I don't hate, just don't like) in an equal sense. WHAT A JERK! So what that Martina and Amilie are gay? Why do you want Jay to post negative news articles about such things all over the British press? Thus angering the Brits and embarassing Martina (I don't care about her embarassing herself anymore). Come on Jelena get some class.

Lord Chips
Jul 17th, 2002, 08:14 AM
A new Jelena Dokic site will be opening in September on the sportnetwork.net system.

The message board is running and can be found at the following URL:
http://www.sportnetwork.net/boards/list/s155?f=153

I hope you will all vsit and enjoy the site, when it is finished

Hamster

Jay
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by mboyle
OK if anyone read my post about my favorite players, Dokic goes to join her dad in tier five. .................................................. .............
Wait, make that challengers! There is no way I can possibly compare her family and Justine (who I don't hate, just don't like) in an equal sense. WHAT A JERK! So what that Martina and Amilie are gay? Why do you want Jay to post negative news articles about such things all over the British press? Thus angering the Brits and embarassing Martina (I don't care about her embarassing herself anymore). Come on Jelena get some class.

It wouldn't have been confined to just the British Press. Such an article would have started on the front pages of the British tabloids and they would have been on sale inside the Wimbledon grounds.

The Press Centre at Wimbledon is massive. I don't know exactly how many journalists there were but it was hundreds and they were from all over the world.

As you all know that tournament is at the centre of the World's attention and it wouldn't have been long before headlines like 'Mad Dad Damir attacks tennis legend as "dirty old lesbian" would have been screaming around the World.

I should point out that this incident happened on the eve of Wimbledon and yet I still travelled to Wimbledon as a guest of Jelena Dokic.

I did this because I had never met Jelena before and if things had turned out in that I was satisfied that Damir's 'views' had no bearing on Jelena's personality then I would have been prepared to continue with the site and simply put Damir 'on block'.

Although Jelena was nice to me and never displayed any attitude towards myself I felt that I could not carry on. It took me a while to come to terms with this. The issue that finally settled it was their 'non effort' to send the promised signed tennis racquet to the winner of our Wimbledon competition.

There's still a small possiblity that this racquet will be sent but but it's looking more and more unlikely as each day goes by. The site will no longer be updated regardless of whether the racquet is sent or not.

There have been many crazy accusations (most of them sent to me by e-mail or PM on various message boards) as to why things have gone bad between myself and the Dokics (the attempt to hit on Jelena for example) and I am not going to waste my time replying to those who can't accept reality because it is too ugly and destroys their hopes and dreams.

I lived the dream, I went to Wimbledon as the guest of one of the top players in the world, something that a lot of fans would die for. The dream turned into a nightmare and there was nothing I could do about it. I wasn't prepared to pretend it didn't happen. I had to face reality.

It's a shame other people can't face reality and attempt to make up excuses or discredit me in some way just to keep their dream alive. It's much better to live in the real world no matter how ugly it might be then to live in a fantasy world.

mishar
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:02 PM
Good on ya, Jay.
It's mad what the Dokics are doing to themselves, just feeding a cycle of bad publicity and then feeling like victims all the time.
Smart to just step aside.

Experimentee
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:14 PM
Thats pretty sad. I know how much you supported Jelena and it looks like her and the Dokics really dont deserve such fans as yourself and many others. My opinion of them was already low, but now having read those threads you posted its hit absolute rock bottom. I dont know the full story but something really bad must have happened for all those fans to turn on her, and i am saddened that such things could happen.

joneg2
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:21 PM
Hey Jay... maybe it's just the nature of this type of outlet, that lends itself to "posters" being unable to accept reality. Without a doubt you are not only believable...but credible as well. Anyone with even a remote connection to the tour knows how many of the girls act and think. It's too bad, but true.

Then again many are really nice as well.

Sam L
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:22 PM
I'm deeply embarassed by what happened here :o

Hulet
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:28 PM
oh..please..I would have more respect and give more credence to this Jay fella if he hadn't took advantage of Jelena and romed through the wimbledon ground as her guest. As he admits now, the "comments" by Damir were before start of wimbledon; so, if the reason Jay was closing "his" site was because he was offended by those comments, why accept the invitation to wimbledon?

Hulet
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:33 PM
and why smeer the name of the Dokic family, further? Why not say, "I am not updating the wp b/c of some unfortunate occurences" and end it there? Why go all over message boards and accuse the Dokics of homophobia without any evidence? Why should we take the word of this Jay fella? Ofcourse, everyone else is allowed to believe what he is saying, but not me; show me the evidence before I follow the wolfs and attack the Jelena and her family.

gentenaire
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by eta psi
and why smeer the name of the Dokic family, further? Why not say, "I am not updating the wp b/c of some unfortunate occurences" and end it there?


That's what Jay did at first! But people were asking for details. And people started accusing HIM. He has a right to defend his decision if he feels it's necessary.

TS
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:58 PM
Thats the thing eta psi...you dont have to believe Jay. But I really dont think he cares whether you do or not. He has stated the case, it's up to us to interpret it as we see fit.

For the record, I (and many others) do believe him (why would he lie? :confused: )...and I admire him for sticking by his convictions.

Jay
Jul 17th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by eta psi
oh..please..I would have more respect and give more credence to this Jay fella if he hadn't took advantage of Jelena and romed through the wimbledon ground as her guest. As he admits now, the "comments" by Damir were before start of wimbledon; so, if the reason Jay was closing "his" site was because he was offended by those comments, why accept the invitation to wimbledon?

Can't you read ?

What did I say in my last post you moron ?

this a classic example of someone trying to discredit me and only believing what they want to believe.

This is what I said in my last post. Read it slowly and if you can't understand the words use a dictionary or ask someone to spell it out for you.

"I should point out that this incident happened on the eve of Wimbledon and yet I still travelled to Wimbledon as a guest of Jelena Dokic.

I did this because I had never met Jelena before and if things had turned out in that I was satisfied that Damir's 'views' had no bearing on Jelena's personality then I would have been prepared to continue with the site and simply put Damir 'on block'. "

Hulet
Jul 17th, 2002, 02:30 PM
heh:)...jay, what about that evidence?

Besides, call me naive but an honest and offended person ( as you claim to be b/c of damir's comments) would have never accepted an invitation to wimbledon by a "homophobic" family. IMO, you probably asked the dokics some financial contribution to maintain the site and such, and they refused and you balked and closed the site. May be that makes me delusional (and "moron") but that for me accounts for the sudden reversal of a fan to anti-fan.

selesfan
Jul 17th, 2002, 02:38 PM
heh...jay, what about that evidence?


How much more evidence do you need? If this thread were about Amelie you wouldn't have asked for any evidence.;)

babsi
Jul 17th, 2002, 02:52 PM
Just a question, Jay when did you find out that Damir's views influenced Jelena's personality?

Jay
Jul 17th, 2002, 03:14 PM
oh my god

read the previous posts and you will see that no one was asked for any finiancial contribution. I was only considering asking Head and the 3 large Yugo sites if the bandwidth continued to sky rocket to impossible levels. If I had of gone to them with the begging bowl it probably would have been in the region of a couple of hundred quid from each of them if that.

It's no secret that I have been known to win and lose hundreds of pounds (sometimes thousands) betting on ATP tennis and maintaining the site at it's current level was never a problem or anywhere even approaching a problem for me.

In any event I would never have asked the Dokics.

As for evidence, as I said before this is not a court of law. However Glyn's third post in http://www.kousa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=819 should confirm to you that I have irrefutable proof of the conversation that Damir wanted me to make public.

And don't ask me to provide it to everyone here on the board, it aint gonna happen.

Jay
Jul 17th, 2002, 03:26 PM
I thought you didn't want to have any contact with me Babsi. I thought the answer should be obvious. I have never met Jelena before Wimbledon and I have never met or spoken to her since, nor do I really want to for that matter.

I am getting a bit tired of explaining my actions and replying to ridiculous accusations.

I have said everything that I have had to say on the matter. Make of it what you will. If you believe it then fine, if not then that's fine as well. I am not going to answer any more questions on the matter regardless of whether it's to confirm something or to deny it.

joneg2
Jul 17th, 2002, 03:39 PM
Jay...stick to your guns! Not only has this been hard for you but now fanatics are taking pot-shots at you.
To the sensible and informed; which is the majority on this board, you have our backing. I'm sorry that you had to go through this.:wavey:

tennischick
Jul 17th, 2002, 03:42 PM
what joneg2 said. ;) ;)

Nikola
Jul 17th, 2002, 03:42 PM
yes, and through this as well. Why starting the topic like this? What was the purpose? But I must say your decision not to post anymore here is overwhelming.

Come-on-kim
Jul 17th, 2002, 08:14 PM
But, what happened, can someone resume it for me

JeffD
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:23 PM
I have just spent a couple of very frustrating hours trying to make sense of this saga as a result of an email I received.

I have read all the messages and am left with the following impressions:

1 Jay could not even get out of bed in time to keep appointments with the person on whose behalf he has expended a considerable amount of time and energy.
2 He then spends days wandering aimlessly around the Wimbledon player facilties taking some of the the lamest photographs I have ever seen posted on a web site.
3 He admits to knowing nothing of tennis and can recognize practically none of the people surrounding him - he could not name any one of the three Russian players he photographed (including Elena Dementieva.. He watched one match to its conclusion but could not name Jelena's opponent...
4 He spends significant time time with Jelena, her Mom and others and has nothing to say about them or their conversations. He has not one word to say about Jelena's thoughts, hopes, feelings about her matches; the tournament, life, the weather; anything! What exactly is he doing here? What we hear about is lining up for free food with Steffi Graf; constantly bumping into his "buddy" Stefano Capriati - who, of couse, always gives a huge smile to his "friend" - the re-evaluation Tim Henmans's total personality on the basis of him apologising for running into him with his bag; etc. etc.
5 A week into the tournament, he sudddenly announces that he cannot continue with the web site and rambles on about his "integrity" but little else of substance apart from some incident involving Venus Williams jumping a line for an Internet computer on a rainy day; coaches arguing with players; players not being nice to other players; etc. etc.
6 Then, after wading through enumerable further ramblings I finally get a little substance - Damir has asked him to write something that refers to Matina Navratilova as a lesbian. At least that's what I think it said. I've read that bit a few times but it's still not clear. Well, what shock, horror is this??? An accusation that Martina is a lesbian? How dare anyone suggest that such a thing should be printed. She would sue them for slander immediately....! Hang on a minute... Isn't this all common knowledge? And since when has being a lesbian been a liability; a surprise; newsworthy or even interesting - especially in women's tennis.
7 So there has to be more. I read on. Finally, something about a racquet promised to the winner of competition not being delivered. Aha! the story of the rich tennis player being too mean to give one of her old raquets away. Much better. But wait... It seems that it was agreed between Jay and the Dokic familiy that, as the winner lived in Jugoslavia and they were heading home there after the tournament, they would be taking it with them and delivering it from there. So, another "reason" bittes the dust. But no! Jay says this is the real thing! As of July 7, the raquet hasn't been delivered - AND he has had to remind them SEVERAL TIMES and STILL it hasn't been delivered. Am I missing something here? IS he really complaining that the racquet - that they are DONATING and PAYING FOR DELIVERY - hasn't been delivered within a few days of their arrival home? Is he really saying that he has actually sent them "several reminders" within those few days. If it was me, I'd be more inclined to wrap the racquet around Mr Prout's head. By the way, emind me again who it was that provided teh free pass to the whole Wimbledon tournament and provided access to the players; the players facilities and free strawberries and cream? There are tens of thousands who would think they had dies and gone to heaven if such an opportunity came their way. And Jay's expression of gratitude? "I don't like the dokic's any more...." Ungrateful brat!
8 So what do we have here? Damir wants Jay to write about Martina Navratilova being a lesbian. So what? If Jelena-online has been accorded the staus of the "official site of Jelena Dokic" what's wrong with the family wanting to be permitted for it to be an outlet for their thoughts and opinions? Isn't that what an "official" site should be about - direct contact and some "from the horses mouth" kind of stuff? If Damir or Jelena want to make their views public, let them! And, if it's controversial, so much the better, just enjoy the fame as you watch the hit counter go off the scale as the World clamours to read about it. Isnt that a webmasters dream? And Damir's comment was made BEFORE THE START OF WIMBLEDON! But it took Mr Prout a week of enjoying the Dokic hospitality to decide he didn't like what Damir had said and could associate with any member of teh family further...??? Please!!! Next topic... The racquet....! After all the innuendo, Jay finally says in his post of July 14, "they are still agreeing to send the raquet..." So there's actually no controversy here at all - except in the befuddles ming of Mr Prout who continues... "If I was to bet on it I would say it's unlikely that they will carry out their promise but I could be wrong..." So, all this controversy over his feeling that the racquet will not be delivred - which he could be wrong about???? Are you serious????
9 Jay Prout seems to have brought suspicion and dislike to Jelena Dokic as the result of pure innuendo and total lack of fact and substance. For example, his post of July 14 says that he has no evidence that Jelena is a racist - therefore she should be given the benefit of the doubt. The Doubt? What doubt. Either there is evidence of her being a racist or there is no doubt to be given - or written about!!! However, he DOES have knowledge of something that happended in the locker room at Eastbourse. Knowledge? Well actually, no, Just something somebody told him at Wimbledon... And no, he is not going into the details of that conversation.... Then he has information about views on Amelie Mauesmo - but he is not going into any detail about that either. AND there have been "other issues" with the Dokic's - but, of course, he is going to "remain quiet" on them too ... But, as a result of all of the above, he will not be contributing to the Jelena-Online site. And from all of the above detailed information, we are to understand and applaud his defence of his "integrity" and welcome the abandonment of this site...
I have never read such complete nonsense in my life. I have heard not one word of substance that in any way detracts from the respect I have for Jelena Dokic as a talented athlete and fine tennis player. She deserves better than to be represented on the Internet by Mr Prout and his campaign of innuendo characterised by his "I know but I'm not telling" brand of hypocrisy.
If he doesn't want to contribute to the site, then he should pass it to someone who will make good use of it rather than let it remain as a memorial to a distateful saga.
I really liked the site - I thought it was well-designed and vibrant and am dismayed that it should now fall by the wayside because of such trivial and petty hostility.
Be a man! End this nonsense and take pride in your accomplishments rather than your disappointments - and be big enough to pass on your work to someone who will be proud to represent Jelena on the Internet.
Jeff

Jay
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:52 PM
Below is an earlier reply to someone. And that is my FINAL statement on the affair. The only thing that would make me say anymore on the matter is if the Dokics themselves make any counter accusations. I am not going to respond to anyone else especially you JeffD.

btw JeffD, I agree with you on points 1 to 4 ;)


However I am only willing to provide titbits as Brandon would say because believe it or not I bear no malice to any of the Dokics especially the children. The Dokics are a very close knit family and have been through a lot. They were forced to flee their homeland when the bombs were dropping all around them and when they settled in Australia they could hardly be described as 'well off'. With none of them able to speak the lingo they struggled to survive for several years with both parents working in menial jobs in order to put food on the table. Despite being poor the parents were willing to spend what little spare cash they had by supporting Jelena's ambition of being a tennis player. That was a tremendous risk for them. However this closeness also has its drawbacks in that the father's strong personality filters down to the children in all matters. I think that if any of us were to be born into that family we would also turn out the same way.

However, Jelena is now a young woman and she has to learn to make her own path in life. There's still time and hopefully one day, it may be years, but hopefully she will follow the example of Mary Pierce.

So in view of all this I do not wish to make known details of any conversations that I had at Wimbledon.
I feel that the fathers actions in this affair have been, or are going to be, damaging enough. The only good that may come out of all this is that is shortens the time it will take for Jelena to follow Mary Pierce.

What I will tell you is that I was aware of the incident at Eastbourne that Brandon has referred to as well as another similar incident. Again, I am not going to go into details for the reason that I have just given.

I can however clarify the 'dirty something lesbian' comment by telling you what I said in a statement that was asked of me by the BBC who have now got wind of this. I am surprised that the BBC are interested in this. It's usually the tabloids who go in for this sort of thing. Although the BBC have a statement from myself (and a short one from Matt) it remains to be seen if the BBC will go ahead and publish. I've been informed that there are some legal issues that they have to avoid but they don't think it will be a problem but again, they might decide not to publish because it's too tabloid for them.

This is my statement and you will notice that I make no reference to anything that was said at Eastbourne or even Wimbledon. I have only stated what Damir asked me to publicise (incidently the BBC have 'heard' what was said and are in no doubt as to its authenticity)

Jay Prout, main webmaster of Official Jelena Dokic Website www.jelena-online.com

I can confirm that following Jelena Dokic's defeat at Eastbourne I had a telephone conversation with Damir Dokic (via his son Savo acting as translater) the contents of which they wanted me to publicise on the website and pass on to the media. The nature of the intended article was to attack the Eastbourne organisers decision to give Martina Navratilova the Centre Court on the basis that Martina Navratilova is a 'dirty old lesbian'.

I can also confirm that I gave a detailed arguement as to why we shouldn't publish such an article on the grounds that it would more than likely result in the worst publicity the Dokics had ever suffered. None of my arguements were based on any moral issues as I felt they would be unsuccessful. However, my arguements that were based on the PR aspect were also unsuccessful because they failed to comprehend why it would lead to bad publicity if we were to follow this course of action that was being demanded of me. In any event I made it clear to them that I would not be writing the article and to this they were unhappy about.

As a result of this and many other issues that I am not prepared to go into, the website will no longer be updated and the webhost contract will not be renewed when it expires in 4 months.


A statement by Matt Morelli, webmaster of 'Unofficial but damn good!' www.dokicnews.co.uk

Our staff have been informed of this situation and we have shut down. We are considering our options and may reopen but this is unlikely.

nysaga
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by JeffD
I have just spent a couple of very frustrating hours trying to make sense of this saga as a result of an email I received.

I have read all the messages and am left with the following impressions:

1 Jay could not even get out of bed in time to keep appointments with the person on whose behalf he has expended a considerable amount of time and energy.
2 He then spends days wandering aimlessly around the Wimbledon player facilties taking some of the the lamest photographs I have ever seen posted on a web site.
3 He admits to knowing nothing of tennis and can recognize practically none of the people surrounding him - he could not name any one of the three Russian players he photographed (including Elena Dementieva.. He watched one match to its conclusion but could not name Jelena's opponent...
4 He spends significant time time with Jelena, her Mom and others and has nothing to say about them or their conversations. He has not one word to say about Jelena's thoughts, hopes, feelings about her matches; the tournament, life, the weather; anything! What exactly is he doing here? What we hear about is lining up for free food with Steffi Graf; constantly bumping into his "buddy" Stefano Capriati - who, of couse, always gives a huge smile to his "friend" - the re-evaluation Tim Henmans's total personality on the basis of him apologising for running into him with his bag; etc. etc.
5 A week into the tournament, he sudddenly announces that he cannot continue with the web site and rambles on about his "integrity" but little else of substance apart from some incident involving Venus Williams jumping a line for an Internet computer on a rainy day; coaches arguing with players; players not being nice to other players; etc. etc.
6 Then, after wading through enumerable further ramblings I finally get a little substance - Damir has asked him to write something that refers to Matina Navratilova as a lesbian. At least that's what I think it said. I've read that bit a few times but it's still not clear. Well, what shock, horror is this??? An accusation that Martina is a lesbian? How dare anyone suggest that such a thing should be printed. She would sue them for slander immediately....! Hang on a minute... Isn't this all common knowledge? And since when has being a lesbian been a liability; a surprise; newsworthy or even interesting - especially in women's tennis.
7 So there has to be more. I read on. Finally, something about a racquet promised to the winner of competition not being delivered. Aha! the story of the rich tennis player being too mean to give one of her old raquets away. Much better. But wait... It seems that it was agreed between Jay and the Dokic familiy that, as the winner lived in Jugoslavia and they were heading home there after the tournament, they would be taking it with them and delivering it from there. So, another "reason" bittes the dust. But no! Jay says this is the real thing! As of July 7, the raquet hasn't been delivered - AND he has had to remind them SEVERAL TIMES and STILL it hasn't been delivered. Am I missing something here? IS he really complaining that the racquet - that they are DONATING and PAYING FOR DELIVERY - hasn't been delivered within a few days of their arrival home? Is he really saying that he has actually sent them "several reminders" within those few days. If it was me, I'd be more inclined to wrap the racquet around Mr Prout's head. By the way, emind me again who it was that provided teh free pass to the whole Wimbledon tournament and provided access to the players; the players facilities and free strawberries and cream? There are tens of thousands who would think they had dies and gone to heaven if such an opportunity came their way. And Jay's expression of gratitude? "I don't like the dokic's any more...." Ungrateful brat!
8 So what do we have here? Damir wants Jay to write about Martina Navratilova being a lesbian. So what? If Jelena-online has been accorded the staus of the "official site of Jelena Dokic" what's wrong with the family wanting to be permitted for it to be an outlet for their thoughts and opinions? Isn't that what an "official" site should be about - direct contact and some "from the horses mouth" kind of stuff? If Damir or Jelena want to make their views public, let them! And, if it's controversial, so much the better, just enjoy the fame as you watch the hit counter go off the scale as the World clamours to read about it. Isnt that a webmasters dream? And Damir's comment was made BEFORE THE START OF WIMBLEDON! But it took Mr Prout a week of enjoying the Dokic hospitality to decide he didn't like what Damir had said and could associate with any member of teh family further...??? Please!!! Next topic... The racquet....! After all the innuendo, Jay finally says in his post of July 14, "they are still agreeing to send the raquet..." So there's actually no controversy here at all - except in the befuddles ming of Mr Prout who continues... "If I was to bet on it I would say it's unlikely that they will carry out their promise but I could be wrong..." So, all this controversy over his feeling that the racquet will not be delivred - which he could be wrong about???? Are you serious????
9 Jay Prout seems to have brought suspicion and dislike to Jelena Dokic as the result of pure innuendo and total lack of fact and substance. For example, his post of July 14 says that he has no evidence that Jelena is a racist - therefore she should be given the benefit of the doubt. The Doubt? What doubt. Either there is evidence of her being a racist or there is no doubt to be given - or written about!!! However, he DOES have knowledge of something that happended in the locker room at Eastbourse. Knowledge? Well actually, no, Just something somebody told him at Wimbledon... And no, he is not going into the details of that conversation.... Then he has information about views on Amelie Mauesmo - but he is not going into any detail about that either. AND there have been "other issues" with the Dokic's - but, of course, he is going to "remain quiet" on them too ... But, as a result of all of the above, he will not be contributing to the Jelena-Online site. And from all of the above detailed information, we are to understand and applaud his defence of his "integrity" and welcome the abandonment of this site...
I have never read such complete nonsense in my life. I have heard not one word of substance that in any way detracts from the respect I have for Jelena Dokic as a talented athlete and fine tennis player. She deserves better than to be represented on the Internet by Mr Prout and his campaign of innuendo characterised by his "I know but I'm not telling" brand of hypocrisy.
If he doesn't want to contribute to the site, then he should pass it to someone who will make good use of it rather than let it remain as a memorial to a distateful saga.
I really liked the site - I thought it was well-designed and vibrant and am dismayed that it should now fall by the wayside because of such trivial and petty hostility.
Be a man! End this nonsense and take pride in your accomplishments rather than your disappointments - and be big enough to pass on your work to someone who will be proud to represent Jelena on the Internet.
Jeff


Blah Blah blah

achamber
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:23 PM
JeffD

Wow you have some nerve!!!! :eek: :eek: :mad: You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what went on at Winbeldon, only Jay himself does. Maybe you should give him the benefit of the doubt, and stop jumping to crazy, outlandish conclusions!! Jay was obviously a big fan of the Dokics' at one time, I am sure it took something pretty big to change that. Man, lay off. He tried to keep quiet about it but no one would let him. If you will remember, people like yourself kept prying and forced him to defend himself. So, just lay off and stop spouting off about things you don't know about.

JeffD
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:03 PM
Isn't this fun....?
First to Jay - you are doing the right thing by posting your final post.... Now, please confirm that you have no objection to someone taking over the content of your site to continue the good work as you have no further interest in it and have confirmed that you will simply let the hosting elapse. This will do much to demonstrate that you are not acting out of spite and do not wish to see Jelena hurt... And if you want to provide Damir Dokic' email address to me (privately), I will do my best to ensure that the whole truth is made available - which will surely be in your interests if you truly believe that an independant evaluation of the whole truth will vindicate your actions.
Next, to achamber: You accuse me of having no idea what went on at Wimbledon - and that only Jay does... That's the whole point. Only Jay does!!! He has spent many hours posting many messages on this and other forums - full of insinuations and innuendo but very short of fact. If he is not prepared to tell us the facts, why spend so much saying so much but but telling us so little. Why bother writing so much at all? He tried to keep quiet???? Have you counted how many posts he has made on this subject???? I, and others, forced him to defend himself??? Have you also counted the numbr of posts that criticize him and ask him to justify himself. I welcome your further post when you are ready with the numbers - and an apology.... Your last sentence sums up the problem - and the reason for my post - these are things that I don't know about and I prefer facts to vague insinuations when someone publishes reports that invite me to take an opinion about someone.

Jay
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:22 PM
Ok, I'll reply to some of this because it doesnt concern the 'incidents'.

There is nothing to stop anyone setting up another website and copying the contents of Jelena Online. Besides most of the pics are 'nicked' off the internet from Yahoo etc. Those pics that have a copyright notice on them such as Nicolas Meuniers, you will have contact the holder for permission. Those pics that have a copyright jelena-online.com can be used (not that you would want to Jeff cos they are a bit lame).

However the domain name www.jelena-online.com remains in my name until it expires and will not be re-directed to any other site.

As for e-mail addresses, I don't have them anymore. When the Dokics moved from Tampa to Belgrade they changed their internet provider and hence aquired new e-mail addys. I didn't bother asking for the new addys because all our communications were by phone or fax. I am not prepared to give out their phone numbers. Besides, if you were to phone them with what you have in mind they would be very annoyed and ungrateful.

vlado
Jul 19th, 2002, 12:35 AM
If it's true that this happened BEFORE Wimbledon, then I simply can not grasp the reason for accepting the invitation to Wimbledon?? That as you said, you wanted give Jelena a chance of showing that she wasn't influenced by Damir?? And how exactly would you have judged that?? Oh, please, that's a very lame excuse. It definitely sounds like you wanted to make use of that press card you were offered, but any decision on what to do and how to act seems to have been made beforehand.

Obviously whatever your pre-Wimbledon discussion was with Damir, it didn't escalate into an arguement like you suggested (the accusations of 'betrayal' you mentioned) or I seriously doubt they would have ever granted you the right to unrestricted access to the Wimbledon courts under their responsibility, and the photos with a smiling Ljiljana and Jelena didn't exactly show any traces of tension or hostility.

And, although I enjoyed reading your reports, now that I think of it (having read Jeff's reply), they didn't really had much at all to do with Jelena, strangely enough for someone supposed to be a real fan of Jelena. But then again, didn't you join the boat only as the webmaster of a site granted the "official" label while you admittedly hadn't even heard of Dokic before?? Who wouldn't have accepted to start off as a webmaster of a top 10 tennis player's official web site?? You don't even have to be a fan to accept such an offer...

If you had really experienced any moral dilemma's after what you had heard from Damir previously to Wimbledon, you for sure would and should have ended it there already, that would have been the only clean way out of it. This way, though, you got some nice publicity and succeeded in creating a controversy which I don't think would have been there with or without that "story" you mentioned if it hadn't been for this double dealing with the Dokic's a couple of weeks. Now, as it is, a "story" is in fact out by word of mouth together with some other not so related facts that you have "revealed". :rolleyes:

And, btw, couldn't BBC's "surprise" interest in this whole affair have something to do with the fact that you have bragged about your connections there?? Also, how does your contact with BBC (the letter you provided below) match your claim that you don't want to make a story out of this :confused: Just curious..

Notice I barely touched the controversial issue of your actual discussion with Damir, since that is only something you and Damir know and I don't even want to get into that issue...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

anton
Jul 19th, 2002, 06:24 AM
Jay, didnt you have any idea Jelena and her family might be "stuck up" because they are always saying the draw is fixed and accusing people of racism even more than the Williams family.

joneg2
Jul 19th, 2002, 08:23 AM
JeffD... maybe with your third post; after you receive Damirs phone number and email address, you could get Jelena's number so you can have a date with her!

And while we're at it... are there any other top ten player's numbers and email addresses you would like? :rolleyes:

We'll get right on that! LMAO

JeffD
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:26 PM
joneg2: It's moronic comments like yours that has always dissuaded me from contributing to these forums.
I have met Jelena (briefly) and many other top female tennis players - one was recently at my house for dinner...
So, I really don't need your help, thank you.
Now get back under the rock that you crawled from under and wallow in the slime that constitutes teh limits of your world.

Jay
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:09 PM
The BBC are not going to publish the story for the reasons that I have already said i.e. it's too tabloid for them.

This is not a surprise to me, those of you who have heard the convo in question will recall I said that "the BBC will never publish it in a million years "

Latest update on the racquet. It still hasn't been sent.

I'm sorry, but there's been more than enough time to send a tennis racquet from one town to another.

I am extremely busy and yet I sent out 5 signed Head posters to locations all around the world and everyone got them.

I wouldn't be surprised that they eventually do send out the racquet, but only to save some face, i.e. because they received some bad publicity.

I'm also sure that they will claim that racquets got lost in the post, or that Head didn't respond quickly enough, that they were very busy due to this, due to that blah blah blah.

They think that nothing is ever their fault.

I don't think even the die hard fans can argue with that.

JeffD
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:10 PM
I tried to post this response on the Tennisrulz message board after yet another post from Jay seeking to justify his behaviour.
Iwas informed that "this thread has been locked" - no doubt by Jay's friends on the board who want to stifle any further criticism of him and allow him to have the last word...
Let's see if I can post it here.....

Jay: Didn't you read JiMBO's post??? He made his point perfectly - or at least he did to me.
Stop acting like a spoiled brat and whining that no-one understands you.
Your continuation of this disgusting innuendo of something bad happening that would make everyone dislike the Dokic family if only they know what it was - but you're not saying - simply turns my stomach.
Now we have you trying to justify yourself by vague references to what others know - or have been told by you. 'They' believe you, so it must be true... Pathetic!
This isssue wold be dead - and I would not have been attracted to it - without your constant self-centered posts.
You ask us to "just deal with it". I'm dealing with it. I think you're a spineless brat who leeched off the hospitality of the Dokic family at Wimbledon AFTER deciding that one of the members of the family had done something that so offended you that you could no longer tolerate being assocaited with them and 'their' website.
As a result you have tried to bring scorn and derision on Jelena without as much as one word of rationale or any substance beyond sickening innuendo and gossip - much of it apparently gathered while you were smilingly enjoying the company of the Dokic family at Wimbledon. Don't even think about tryin to justify such disgusting behaviour.
Now try to be a man and end this nauseating attempt to justify your repulsive behaviour.
Jeff

griffin
Jul 19th, 2002, 02:24 PM
JeffD, I think you're the one who should take your own "be a man" advice and let this drop. At least don't ask someone questions (even if they have already gone to lengths to answer them repeatedly) and then get mad when they respond.

I had locked this thread, but opened it when Jay asked that someone who was disagreeing with him (at least in part) be given a chance to respond. That seems to have been a mistake.

Jay has explained himself and his decision (timing included) and there's been ample commentary. People are welcome to believe who and what they will but this thread and this subject is now officially closed.