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Volcana
Sep 21st, 2007, 10:44 PM
Interesting case.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20070920/46f1f040_3426_1335020070920-867117650 (http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20070920/46f1f040_3426_1335020070920-867117650)


Judge rules students can wear 'Hitler youth' buttons to protest school uniform policy

NEWARK, New Jersey - Two New Jersey students can wear buttons featuring a picture of Hitler youth to protest a school uniform policy, a federal judge ruled Thursday.
U.S. District Judge Joseph A. Greenaway Jr. sided with the parents of the students, who had been threatened with suspension last fall for wearing the buttons. However, the judge added in his ruling that the boys will not be allowed to distribute the buttons at school.

Citing a 1969 case in Iowa involving students who wore black arm bands to protest the Vietnam War, Greenaway wrote that "a student may not be punished for merely expressing views unless the school has reason to believe that the speech or expression will 'materially and substantially disrupt the work and discipline of the school.'"

The local Bayonne school district instituted mandatory uniforms last year for students from kindergarden through eighth grade. The buttons bear the words "no school uniforms" with a slash through them superimposed on a photo of young boys wearing identical shirts and neckerchiefs. There are no swastikas visible on the buttons, but the parties agreed that they depict members of Hitler youth.

After the suspension threat, the boys' parents filed a federal lawsuit claiming the district stifled the children's First Amendment free speech rights.
District lawyers asserted that the image of the Hitler youth was abhorrent because it conveyed intolerance and racial inequality represented by Nazism.

kiwifan
Sep 21st, 2007, 11:07 PM
My kinda of freedom of speech.

Especially the omission of the swastikas :bowdown:

Love it even more than General Be-tray-us :lol:

Kart
Sep 21st, 2007, 11:18 PM
After the suspension threat, the boys' parents filed a federal lawsuit claiming the district stifled the children's First Amendment free speech rights.


What an excellent example to set for their children in dealing with authority.

*JR*
Sep 21st, 2007, 11:24 PM
What an excellent example to set for their children in dealing with authority.
Just because you prigs would kick a kid out of school for wearing a button that said The Queen is a Whore. :p

Volcana
Sep 21st, 2007, 11:31 PM
What an excellent example to set for their children in dealing with authority.
Beats the hell out of mindless obedience.

Kart
Sep 22nd, 2007, 12:21 AM
Beats the hell out of mindless obedience.

Indeed.

However, I doubt that is the lesson these children are going to learn from this particular episode.

Kart
Sep 22nd, 2007, 12:22 AM
Oh and *JR* I think you'll find the Queen gets more respect outside of England than she does in it.

Though personally I have no strong feelings for or against her.

Scotso
Sep 22nd, 2007, 02:28 AM
So do these children share Hitler's views or are they attempting to equate the uniforms with Naziism? If it's the latter, they should find a better way to protest than displaying such hate. If it's the former, may they burn in hell.

Wigglytuff
Sep 22nd, 2007, 02:52 AM
Beats the hell out of mindless obedience.

listen if parents cared half as much about the EDUCATION their children are getting instead of what they wearing, the newark and nyc school system might not be the worthless pots of shit they are now.

yes i am saying that this is a waste of time, money and resources. wear the damn uniform and if you want to wear your own shit: do your work so that school systems dont have to resort to such things to get you to do your do! lazy bastards.

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 22nd, 2007, 03:10 AM
My kinda of freedom of speech.

Especially the omission of the swastikas :bowdown:

Love it even more than General Be-tray-us :lol:

Your lieberterian ideologies sometimes are baffling and scary.

Why can't they be like normal kids and wear the uniforms sloppy.

I think some parents get a satisfaction of not having to worry about their kids getting beat up for wearing the latest fashion while coming home from school.

Why does there have to be a fight for everything in this country.

It's not mindless obedience, it's just practical.

Maybe a more sensible fight might have been something that would have been an investment in a child's education, like up-to-date textbooks.

kiwifan
Sep 22nd, 2007, 03:32 AM
But they are wearing the uniforms just with "a little flair".

Without the swastikas you have to bring a little perspicacity to the situation to even get their point, seems like their point is even a little complex for some of the posters in this thread.

:)

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 22nd, 2007, 04:07 AM
But they are wearing the uniforms just with "a little flair".

Without the swastikas you have to bring a little perspicacity to the situation to even get their point, seems like their point is even a little complex for some of the posters in this thread.

As for the personal commentary, save it for someone who cares loser. :)

Sweetie, it's not what you're called, it's what you answer to.
I never called you anything in that post.
Maybe it has some truth to it though. Maybe it hit a nerve.

Then again if you weren't trying to fuck every bimbo you saw at the local universidad, you might be able to think straight.

It has nothing to do with being complex.
Maybe since you're use to rebelling just for the hell of it, you get these kids.
But this is not something to rebel about.
This is not going to start a path to nazism just because these kids are wearing uniforms.

These kids should be worrying about their NHS buttons than this.
People who want to be that different at this stage of their life are the ones who think that high school happens the best years of their life which is :bs:.
It's not like something like this is stifling their creativity.

Look at Tina Fey.
A women who wore uniforms most of her life, one who never really went out the box during this phase in her life.
She's now one of the funniest women in the business.

You showed solidarity for the kids in Jena 6.
What about the solidarity for a better society?

How do you think a poor kid feels about uniforms?
Many times it's a chance to fit in.
Even a kid showing "a little flair" can feed into an insecurity that poor kid has at vulnerable time in their life.
Maybe since you haven't been there you don't get that.

meyerpl
Sep 22nd, 2007, 04:52 AM
I'm rather torn on the issue of school uniforms but I don't have a problem with students expressing themselves in this manner.

Apoleb
Sep 22nd, 2007, 05:04 AM
I'm rather torn on the issue of school uniforms but I don't have a problem with students expressing themselves in this manner.

I agree. The state lawyers' response that 'they are encouraging racism and hate' or whatever is ridiculous. Either they didn't get the point, or they are really taking people for mentally retarded. Agreed with them or not, they have the right to express their opinions, and they used those Nazi uniforms to stress (in their opinion) on the negativity of uniforms so clearly Nazism here is used in a negative connotation. Unless ofcourse if some people want to sanction Nazi imagery however it's used (which would be ridiculous).

Scotso
Sep 22nd, 2007, 05:50 AM
I find it repulsive that people would NOT find it inappropriate for them to protest school uniforms by displaying the creation of a man responsible for millions of deaths.

kiwifan
Sep 22nd, 2007, 07:30 AM
I find it repulsive that people would NOT find it inappropriate for them to protest school uniforms by displaying the creation of a man responsible for millions of deaths.

And yet people still purchase and drive Volkswagens. ;)

Der Fuhrer had more to do with the Volkswagen Beetle than he did with the Hitler youth, discuss amongst yourselves. :smoke:

kiwifan
Sep 22nd, 2007, 07:36 AM
I agree. The state lawyers' response that 'they are encouraging racism and hate' or whatever is ridiculous. Either they didn't get the point, or they are really taking people for mentally retarded. Agreed with them or not, they have the right to express their opinions, and they used those Nazi uniforms to stress (in their opinion) on the negativity of uniforms so clearly Nazism here is used in a negative connotation. Unless ofcourse if some people want to sanction Nazi imagery however it's used (which would be ridiculous).

amazing how people don't get this. :lol:

*JR*
Sep 22nd, 2007, 12:39 PM
(Responding to Kiwifan)

Sweetie, it's not what you're called, it's what you answer to.
I never called you anything in that post.
Maybe it has some truth to it though. Maybe it hit a nerve.

Then again if you weren't trying to fuck every bimbo you saw at the local universidad, you might be able to think straight.

It has nothing to do with being complex.
Maybe since you're use to rebelling just for the hell of it, you get these kids.
But this is not something to rebel about.
This is not going to start a path to nazism just because these kids are wearing uniforms.

These kids should be worrying about their NHS buttons than this.
People who want to be that different at this stage of their life are the ones who think that high school happens the best years of their life which is :bs:.
It's not like something like this is stifling their creativity.

Look at Tina Fey.
A women who wore uniforms most of her life, one who never really went out the box during this phase in her life.
She's now one of the funniest women in the business.

You showed solidarity for the kids in Jena 6.
What about the solidarity for a better society?

How do you think a poor kid feels about uniforms?
Many times it's a chance to fit in.
Even a kid showing "a little flair" can feed into an insecurity that poor kid has at vulnerable time in their life.
Maybe since you haven't been there you don't get that.
OK, "he dissed you first". (He's done that to me many times in the past, though far less since the collapse of his own, err "thousand year reich", :p aka the West Coast Coalition, mainly during my '02 - '04 incarnation here. "Boo hoo", but he edited out that sentence half an hour B4 your last edit of the post quoted here, so I'd get ova it?

I happen to agree with your closing paragraph's take on school uniforms and "fitting in". (Though you shouldn't jump to conclusions that Mr. Kiwi is from a privileged background, I think he had a middle class upbringing in a suburb of Atlanta). And your remark about him "trying to fuck every bimbo (he) saw at the local universidad" is rather ironic, my Philly Phriend.

He almost never posts anything about his love life (and never did except in a very tame way about his affection for Brianna, even in his spoof ID of American Me) whereas you're one of the most sexually explicit posters on the board. (I'm not making a value judgment, just noting the irony here).
:confused:

As that famous philosopher Rodney King once said: "Can we all get along now?"
:shrug:

meyerpl
Sep 22nd, 2007, 02:20 PM
I find it repulsive that people would NOT find it inappropriate for them to protest school uniforms by displaying the creation of a man responsible for millions of deaths.
Well, if you can't wrap your brain around the concept that the students weren't in any way glorifying Hitler but rather using him as a symbol of something bad and dangerous, then go ahead and be repulsed. In a free country, they can express themselves in the manner of their choosing and you can be repulsed. Isn't that great?

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 22nd, 2007, 05:30 PM
OK, "he dissed you first". (He's done that to me many times in the past, though far less since the collapse of his own, err "thousand year reich", :p aka the West Coast Coalition, mainly during my '02 - '04 incarnation here. "Boo hoo", but he edited out that sentence half an hour B4 your last edit of the post quoted here, so I'd get ova it?

I happen to agree with your closing paragraph's take on school uniforms and "fitting in". (Though you shouldn't jump to conclusions that Mr. Kiwi is from a privileged background, I think he had a middle class upbringing in a suburb of Atlanta). And your remark about him "trying to fuck every bimbo (he) saw at the local universidad" is rather ironic, my Philly Phriend.

He almost never posts anything about his love life (and never did except in a very tame way about his affection for Brianna, even in his spoof ID of American Me) whereas you're one of the most sexually explicit posters on the board. (I'm not making a value judgment, just noting the irony here).
:confused:

As that famous philosopher Rodney King once said: "Can we all get along now?"
:shrug:

The only reason I edited my post was to add the things you happen to agree on in my the post.
I didn't want to make another post.
The other stuff was there a good 5-8 minutes after kiwi's post.

So I'm the most sexually explicit posters on here.
The fact remains that I was online on a friday night watching taped Davis Cup matches, such a whory thing to do (I probably would have gone out but I need new glasses, seems from afar I thought a lady was cute but when she got closer I noticed that she looked like something out of a Scooby Doo mystery, not a good way to go clubbing).
I obviously use the board as a sexual outlet.

Do I have to get along?
Could there be a paraell somewhere we're missing that could perhaps make us understand why a certain poster does what he does.
And I'm not talking about myself, btw. ;)

kiwifan
Sep 22nd, 2007, 09:52 PM
OK, "he dissed you first". (He's done that to me many times in the past, though far less since the collapse of his own, err "thousand year reich", :p aka the West Coast Coalition, mainly during my '02 - '04 incarnation here. "Boo hoo", but he edited out that sentence half an hour B4 your last edit of the post quoted here, so I'd get ova it?

I happen to agree with your closing paragraph's take on school uniforms and "fitting in". (Though you shouldn't jump to conclusions that Mr. Kiwi is from a privileged background, I think he had a middle class upbringing in a suburb of Atlanta). And your remark about him "trying to fuck every bimbo (he) saw at the local universidad" is rather ironic, my Philly Phriend.

He almost never posts anything about his love life (and never did except in a very tame way about his affection for Brianna, even in his spoof ID of American Me) whereas you're one of the most sexually explicit posters on the board. (I'm not making a value judgment, just noting the irony here).
:confused:

As that famous philosopher Rodney King once said: "Can we all get along now?"
:shrug:

:haha: I didn't even know "it" responded to my post. :lol: :tape:

and to think I thought I had a moment of compassion right after posting where I thought everyone can live in peace and discuss the merits of school uniforms or the brilliance of the rugged individualism that conformity just loves to stomp out of our youth." so I deleted the comment, it seemed only minutes after the initial post.

OH BUT I MEANT IT and still do and thus restate...

As for the personal commentary, save it for someone who cares [Eagle Fan]. :)

And now for Jolly's Record Keeping Purposes: Kiwi's background is quite multifaceted. :p

He knows what its like to be both the kid in school who couldn't afford Nikes and he knows what its like to be the King Jock of the private school campus strutting about in Polos and Docksiders. He's done the majority black inner-city schools and the majority white suburban schools in the north and the south and come to think of it violated dress codes both places. Kiwi has had less than most and now Kiwi has more than most. He knows that life isn't fair, but since he's taken the steps to assure that he's most likely "always on the winning side"; his life is good. :cool:

Kiwifan doesn't mind school uniforms as long as there's room for the uniform wearer to mock the fact that (s)he has to wear the damn thing.

Sort of like catholic school girls rolling up their conservative skirts and making minis out of them.

I do like rebellion for the sake of it (blame my family, I was raised in the Black Power movement) :lol:, as long as its clever and the instant case is quite clever. I don't believe Americans really know where they stand or what they stand for until they've been challenged...so I tend to help my fellow citizens get to know themselves better on an occasion or 5.

Then again if you weren't trying to fuck every bimbo you saw at the local universidad, you might be able to think straight. This was half true at one point in time. :lol: But in hind sight I think it was the sports/drinking that were more of an academic distraction after all the girls usually came with class notes as well as nice bodies. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can you tell its raining in Hollywood?

So to get slightly back on topic, why not be more offended by the Volkswagen than an anti-Hitler Youth button?

*JR*
Sep 22nd, 2007, 10:27 PM
And now for Jolly's Record Keeping Purposes: Kiwi's background is quite multifaceted. :p

He knows what its like to be both the kid in school who couldn't afford Nikes and he knows what its like to be the King Jock of the private school campus strutting about in Polos and Docksiders. He's done the majority black inner-city schools and the majority white suburban schools in the north and the south and come to think of it violated dress codes both places. Kiwi has had less than most and now Kiwi has more than most. He knows that life isn't fair, but since he's taken the steps to assure that he's most likely "always on the winning side"; his life is good. :cool:
You forgot the :drive: and to say:
DIGTBK :devil:

(Mr. Boi might still read this board now and then). :scratch:

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 23rd, 2007, 12:11 AM
Eagles fan. :yawn:
You must really think I care about the Eagles right now. :lol:

You know you would think someone who says they have the ability to help someone get to know themselves better on an occasion would not make a sexuality mistake as "it".

But since I don't apply to a definition you would like, I have to be "it".

Amazing, that you were able to show the ignorance of most of the country in one post, you topped yourself this time. :yeah:

I know who I am, I know where I came from, but thanks for offering whatever mindless interpretation you have.

You know, I really don't have an issue with the liberterian views.

It's the liberterianism with the homophobia that I continue to see through your posts (like this one), that makes me wonder, why can't people see this :bs:.
Is it not hypocritical?

I never said I didn't feel that the kids couldn't mock the uniforms.
I actually mentioned before they can wear it sloppy and I don't mind the girls skirts being hiked up.

This is going too far.
Maybe they can find somethng better to do with their time, like community service.
Or perhaps wear a button for breast cancer month which starts in just less than a week.
You know something that's different but actually helps others.
God Forbid those two things come together.

BTW, who says I don't have a problem with Volkwagons.

Here's the thing here. I'll make it simple.
Car companies have one of the biggest influences in DC.

There had to be laws made to put in seatbelts.
There had to be laws made to put to up the miles per gallon which is still incredibly low compared to other countries.
There had to be laws made to put in air bags.
There had to be laws made to put in better quality of gas.

If it was up to car companies we would still be driving 1970s gas guzzling air polluting crap, which btw we're not that far from right now to be honest.

Car companies could care less about what consumers think, if they did they would have never taken electric cars off the market in America.
So whatever I have to say against any car would have absolutely no effect.

kiwifan
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:13 AM
You forgot the :drive: and to say:
DIGTBK :devil:

(Mr. Boi might still read this board now and then). :scratch:

I was actually considering looking for the old "top down chrome spinning" smilie. But even though its raining in SoCal, watching a 4 hour Andy Warhol doc was (and a little college football) beats spending too much time here engaging in a half-hearted sparring session. :lol: that's so 2004. :p

kiwifan
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:22 AM
I'm so glad you took the bait, sucker!!! :nerner:

Eagles fan. :yawn:
You must really think I care about the Eagles right now. :lol:

You know you would think someone who says they have the ability to help someone get to know themselves better on an occasion would not make a sexuality mistake as "it". ain't about sexuality, Eagle Fan.

But since I don't apply to a definition you would like, I have to be "it". Yep, you're it see below, Eagle Fan.

Amazing, that you were able to show the ignorance of most of the country in one post, you topped yourself this time. :yeah:

I know who I am, I know where I came from, but thanks for offering whatever mindless interpretation you have.

You know, I really don't have an issue with the liberterian views.

It's the liberterianism with the homophobia that I continue to see through your posts (like this one), that makes me wonder, why can't people see this :bs:.
Is it not hypocritical? Not homophobia, Eagle Fan. We've never had a disagreement based on your sexual preference have we - come on be honest, sucker!!! In fact, no one on these boards has ever had a problem with me based on sexual preference because I don't give a damn. :p

I never said I didn't feel that the kids couldn't mock the uniforms.
I actually mentioned before they can wear it sloppy and I don't mind the girls skirts being hiked up.

This is going too far.
Maybe they can find somethng better to do with their time, like community service.
Or perhaps wear a button for breast cancer month which starts in just less than a week.
You know something that's different but actually helps others.
God Forbid those two things come together.

BTW, who says I don't have a problem with Volkwagons.

Here's the thing here. I'll make it simple.
Car companies have one of the biggest influences in DC.

There had to be laws made to put in seatbelts.
There had to be laws made to put to up the miles per gallon which is still incredibly low compared to other countries.
There had to be laws made to put in air bags.
There had to be laws made to put in better quality of gas.

If it was up to car companies we would still be driving 1970s gas guzzling air polluting crap, which btw we're not that far from right now to be honest.

Car companies could care less about what consumers think, if they did they would have never taken electric cars off the market in America.
So whatever I have to say against any car would have absolutely no effect.

"it" was a race relations comment.

I work in Hollywood and I ain't a movie star so I picked the wrong career if I didn't like gays, cross dressers, lesbians - since I work everyday with all the above. :lol: :tape:

I haven't cared about anyone's sexuality since I was chasing coeds in college...and even then I realized that the more good looking gay guys running around, the less competition for me.

Who you fuck don't matter.

Who you've defended in the past in WTAworld is the only measure I have of the content of your character and your character is pretty pathetic, oh Michael Richards defender (and consistent racial apologist).

You're an "it", cuz you sure ain't no brotha or sista...wannabe. :weirdo:

Cheers - :cool:

kiwifan
Sep 23rd, 2007, 02:29 AM
This is going too far.
Maybe they can find somethng better to do with their time, like community service.
Or perhaps wear a button for breast cancer month which starts in just less than a week.
You know something that's different but actually helps others.
God Forbid those two things come together.But back on the subject.

Why would they do something else when this is the issue that they have a problem with. That's like protesting China when your pissed at Argentina. :lol: Or the Philly media focusing on quote McNabb made before the season instead of their 0-2 start. :haha:

Breast Cancer, while a noble cause, doesn't mean shit to these kids, school uniforms do. What sense does it make protesting something unrelated to your original gripe? Is Breast Cancer going to tell the Principal to get rid of school uniforms? :lol: Perhaps once they have satisfaction on the Uniform issue they can channel their rebel energy to other causes.

Apoleb
Sep 23rd, 2007, 03:12 AM
They have filed a lawsuit for freedom of speech in public schools (not for the uniforms). Hardly a non-issue. It's irrelevent whether they were protesting about child abuse or the type of blackboards used in classes. This is about preserving the right to express their views.

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 23rd, 2007, 03:30 AM
They have filed a lawsuit for freedom of speech in public schools (not for the uniforms). Hardly a non-issue. It's irrelevent whether they were protesting about child abuse or the type of blackboards used in classes. This is about preserving the right to express their views.

No it isn't.
First of all freedom of speech is a privilege not a right.
If you're a criminal, your freedom of speech is compromised.

As a child, freedom of speech is also compromised, not to the point of a criminal but they can't express their views like an adult.

For example say one of these kids wanted to get a tattoo of this button.
Guess what, they can't do so at a certain age in a legal tattoo parlor without the consent of an adult.
That means they can't express their views the way an adult can.

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 23rd, 2007, 04:02 AM
I'm so glad you took the bait, sucker!!! :nerner:



"it" was a race relations comment.

I work in Hollywood and I ain't a movie star so I picked the wrong career if I didn't like gays, cross dressers, lesbians - since I work everyday with all the above. :lol: :tape:

I haven't cared about anyone's sexuality since I was chasing coeds in college...and even then I realized that the more good looking gay guys running around, the less competition for me.

Who you fuck don't matter.

Who you've defended in the past in WTAworld is the only measure I have of the content of your character and your character is pretty pathetic, oh Michael Richards defender (and consistent racial apologist).

You're an "it", cuz you sure ain't no brotha or sista...wannabe. :weirdo:

Cheers - :cool:

If that was really the case you wouldn't have added the sistah part.
Again just because I don't live my life as you do, does not make me any less of a man.
I really don't give a fuck how many people in the LGBT community you've associated with.
It seems you have an issue with a specific kind.
By the way, I also defended Michael Vick and still defend him but since it doesn't go with your theory of me it's overlooked right?

It's easier to deal with ostracizing a black man out of the community than having to deal with the knowledge that he can enjoy getting fucked without something drastic happening in his life, like molestation at an early life isn't it?
Homosexuality is a "white disease" right?
I'm not the west hollywood obcessed about being supremely fit black queens right?

Be honest
I know your type.
The macho guy who appears so comfortable about his sexuality but from time to time, slips up.

In your eyes you are probably right I'm not a brutha.

If I was on the West Coast and I had to trust my life with you or a mexican stranger, the 1/4 of my mexican blood would win out every time.

It's funny because I never had an east coast bias and still don't.
I always remember defending the West Coast against people who went there and came back thinking it was "different" and even thinking that we're different.
I would go, they can't be THAT different, they're just as black as us.

They were right. You are different and I wouldn't call it a good thing either.