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Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:09 PM
The list of players below is by age, starting with the oldest. The youngest is 19. This includes 9 of the top 15 ranked players. It's time, IMHO, to stop thinking of these players as 'up-and-coming'. They're here and a lot of them have already had some accomplishments of note.


04-13-79 Shaughnessy 2 titles
07-05-79 Mauresmo GS final
06-17-80 Williams, V GS 4
09-30-80 Hingis GS 5
12-15-80 Stevenson 0 titles
06-07-81 Kournikova 0 titles
07-08-81 Myskina 1 titles
09-17-81 Williams, S GS 3
10-15-81 Dementieva 0 titles
01-07-82 Tulyaganova 3 titles
06-01-82 Henin GS final, Tier I win
09-19-82 Danilidou 1 title
03-09-83 Bedanova 1 title
04-12-83 Dokic Tier I win (2)
04-23-83 Hantuchova Tier I
06-08-83 Clijsters GS final


The downside for a lot of them is, there's been so much accomplishment within the group. Dementieva has THIRTEEN players around her age who've had better careers to date. That's a lot. She may improve enough to transcend half a dozen of them. But ALL?

More to the point, the physical maturation of most of these players is complete. Or rather, the physical maturation of ALL of them is 95% complete. And most of them (Stevenson being a notable exception) don't let themselves get fat. THey pretty much are what they will be, physically.

We've seen how fast they all are.
We've seen how strong they all are.
We've seen all the shots they'll have without a great deal of off-season work.
At least half these players have the physical skills to win a GS title.
Only 3 of them have proven to also have the right mental/emotional mix to be GS champions.

Venus got her first GS title at 20. Serena got her first at 17, Martina at 16. Most players who win more than one GS title, win one by the time they are 20. (Martina Navratilova, however, won her first at 23.) So, I think it's fair to say that we've seen these players at their PHYSICAL best. We know what they're working with physically now.
Alexandra isn't going to to suddenly develop Justine-like speed.
Anastasia isn't going to develop Dementieva's forehand.

What we don't know is, who has the heart, the desire, the intellectual capacity, the emotional control and the mental focus to make themselves a GS champ?

But at this point, I think we can take a WYSIWIG approach to analyzing these sixteen players. Age isn't going to make any of them better. Training will. Emotional maturation might. Learning how to build points will help those that don't know how yet, if they bother to learn. But physical maturation won't. For these sixteen, what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

ys
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:15 PM
Take Virgos and Geminis from this list. Forget about others.

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:18 PM
bump

Jordan.
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:22 PM
*sigh*



:rolleyes:

Williams Rulez
Jul 16th, 2002, 08:29 AM
Oooo... *applause* another intelligent post from Jordan.

Gemini's:

Venus
Anna
Kim
Justine

Virgo's:

Serena
Danilidou

Hingis is 7 days away from being a Virgo...

Pretty much in line with all the players who have achieved great results... :)

conchita
Jul 16th, 2002, 08:40 AM
I believe this should be the correct list:

04-13-79 Shaughnessy 2 titles
07-05-79 Mauresmo GS final
06-17-80 Williams, V GS 4
09-30-80 Hingis GS 5
12-15-80 Stevenson 0 titles
06-07-81 Kournikova 0 titles
07-08-81 Myskina 1 titles
09-17-81 Williams, S GS 3
10-15-81 Dementieva 0 titles
01-07-82 Tulyaganova 3 titles
04-16-82 CONCHITA MARTINEZ 1 GS title, 2 GS finals, 32 other titles (including many tier 1's)
06-01-82 Henin GS final, Tier I win
09-19-82 Danilidou 1 title
03-09-83 Bedanova 1 title
04-12-83 Dokic Tier I win (2)
04-23-83 Hantuchova Tier I
06-08-83 Clijsters GS final

:)

Williams Rulez
Jul 16th, 2002, 08:51 AM
Conchita... up and coming? Might as well throw in Navratilova... or better yet... BJK

V.Melb
Jul 16th, 2002, 10:58 AM
Yes.... Williams Rulez.....

Conchita is up and coming to the senior tour!!!

LOL :D :p

Raisin
Jul 16th, 2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by V.Melb
Yes.... Williams Rulez.....

Conchita is up and coming to the senior tour!!!

LOL :D :p

LMAO, very funny:wavey:

conchita
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:12 PM
SHE IS NOT GOING INTO THE SENIOR TOUR! she is still very young and has thousands more tournaments that she can play in! And as if you would throw in old Natrav with the youth of conchita,pfffffffff.

:)

Cilla
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by conchita
And as if you would throw in old Natrav with the youth of conchita,pfffffffff

ROTFLMAO! :p

conchita
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:35 PM
:)

ys
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:58 PM
Virgo's:

Serena
Danilidou

Hingis is 7 days away from being a Virgo...


Sorry, correction. I didn't mean Virgo, I meant Libra. Virgo is not a tennis sign of Zodiac. Libra is. Really, what Virgo has to do with tennis..:) And Libra is a symbol of competition..:)

Williams Rulez
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:01 PM
Dementieva and Hingis are Libras...

Danilidou and Serena are within 7 days of being a Libra

Freefall
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:13 PM
I would say, Daniliidou, Bedanova & Hantuchova are VERY MUCH up & coming players. They're all still teenagers & have been moving UP, UP, UP this whole year. Myskina's a couple years older but you can put her in there too since she's been moving UP, UP, UP also.


As far as the others go, IMHO Meghann's a little bit of a late bloomer like Lindsay. Mauresmo, Venus, Martina & Serena are all fully mature. Anna & Alex should be but they've been having mental troubles. Justine is almost there. Elena D., Iroda, Jelena & Kim, I think are still refining their game & have a lot of room to still improve, but not so much up & coming anymore. They've been to the top ten or so & have been bouncing around the rankings for a while now.

ys
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:31 PM
Williams_Rulez - Serena IS Libra.:)

GogoGirl
Jul 16th, 2002, 04:28 PM
http://www.cincypost.com/2002/jul/16/tennis071602.html




Another tennis sister act
Molonys a force in Met tourney

By Marc Lancaster, Post staff reporter

You can't have the Met without the Molonys.

The green clay courts at Lunken Playfield will be crawling with them this week, as the three Molony sisters begin play in the Thomas E. Price Metropolitan Tennis Championship.

Monday night marked the beginning of a week that, if recent years are any indication, should feature Molonys galore when the later rounds of the tournament roll around this weekend. Kara Molony-Hussey and Lyndsey Molony got everything started well for the family, demolishing Christina Dausch and Ashley Jones, 6-1, 6-0, in their first doubles match Monday.

Today, those two and younger sister Molly will begin singles play. Kara, 22, is the top seed in the women's field, while Lyndsey, 20, is the No. 3 seed. Molly, 17, is unseeded.

The older sisters have had plenty of success, both together and separately, at the Met. They won the doubles tournament last year, were runners-up the year before that, and won it in 1999. Kara has lost in the singles final the past two years - both times beating Lyndsey in the semis en route to the final. Kara won the singles title in 1998 and '99.

Needless to say, they're comfortable on these courts, and they were happy to be back.

"This was our first match, singles or doubles, so I was just glad to finally get over here, look at the draw a little bit and just be a part of it,'' said Kara.

Despite the one-sided score, the Molonys were not at their best Monday. Kara couldn't quite harness her serve, and a sore rotator cuff forced Lyndsey to serve underhand at times during the match. But they didn't need to be terribly sharp to get by Dausch and Jones, and the match ended quickly.

Lyndsey's rotator cuff problem may make life more difficult for her in the singles draw. The injury has forced her to curtail her summer playing schedule a bit, and she said she'll probably get an MRI later this week.

"It's inflamed, so I've just been practicing for this tournament this past week, because I didn't know if I should push it or just get it better for fall season,'' said Lyndsey, who will be a junior at the University of Cincinnati this fall. "I couldn't serve, really. I served some out there because the underhand wasn't working very good. It kind of hurt.''

Pain has been the norm for Lyndsey in the past year. After playing No. 1 and No. 2 singles for UC during her freshman year, she was slowed by a stress fracture in her left leg last season. Her play suffered, and she spent the season playing mostly in the No. 4 slot. She said her leg isn't bothering her anymore, but she'll have to play through the rotator cuff injury, at least for the time being.

being.

Pain has been the norm for Lyndsey in the past year. After playing No. 1 and No. 2 singles for UC during her freshman year, she was slowed by a stress fracture in her left leg last season. Her play suffered, and she spent the season playing mostly in the No. 4 slot. She said her leg isn't bothering her anymore, but she'll have to play through the rotator cuff injury, at least for the time being.

Kara, meanwhile, is playing at least three or four times a week, including occasional U.S. Tennis Association pro circuit events. She won a couple of rounds at a Challenger tournament in Allentown, Pa., last month, and she's actually listed in the WTA world rankings. This week, Kara is No. 938 on the planet.

"It's something I just decided to commit to for a while and see how it goes,'' said Kara. "I just don't have all this competitiveness out yet. When I'm sick of it, I'll stop, but right now, it's pretty fun.''

When she's not traveling to USTA events, Kara also gives tennis lessons around town.

If it seems like the Molonys are always on the court, that's because they are. Molly will be a senior at Notre Dame Academy this year, and is already following in her sisters' footsteps. She reached the state semifinals in the spring as Notre Dame fell one point short of the Kentucky state title. Kara was an assistant coach on the team, and will take over head coaching duties next season.

This week, however, all three are focused on the Met, and the early returns are good.


Publication date: 07-16-02

Williams Rulez
Jul 17th, 2002, 09:12 AM
Serena is?

Thought Libra was from 24th Sept - 23 Oct?

Monica_Rules
Jul 17th, 2002, 09:52 AM
I didn't think of any of these as up and coming!

Robbie.
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
The downside for a lot of them is, there's been so much accomplishment within the group. Dementieva has THIRTEEN players around her age who've had better careers to date. That's a lot. She may improve enough to transcend half a dozen of them. But ALL?

How do you say that 13 players around her age have had better careers than her? Based on the fact that she hasn't one a title? A lot of those girls you ranked above her have one lower tier tourney, their careers in totality do not rank above elena's dual top 15 year end ranking (with occassional forays into the top 10), olympic silver medal, US Open semi-final, chase semifinal and numerous wins over top players. She has also reached the fourth round atleast of every major (a fine accomplishment by any player). Surely Shaughnessy, Myskina, Danilidou, Bedanova and even Hantuchova don't rate above her, in terms of career achievements, at this stage.

Williams Rulez
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:14 AM
Hantuchova has achieved more than Dementieva at this point IMO... she has wins over serveral top 10 players, and she has won a big title. If she ends the year in the top 10, then she decidedly has had a better career than Demetieva.

Robbie.
Jul 17th, 2002, 10:22 AM
I agree Williams rulez, again if a key word. At this point Hantuchova is on the rise fast, but her achievements in winning a sub-standard Tier 1 (even beating Martina), Wimby Quarterfinalist, IMO don't rank her above Elena. This year? yes. But career wise? no. Don't forget Dementieva has career wins over Hingis and Davenport. Hantuchova's main claim to fame is beating Marti for the IW title. Hantuchova hasn't even ended a year in the top 30 yet :eek:, let alone been in the top 10 (although she will prob get there soon, good luck dani :kiss: )

Also, career wise, Anna rates above the aforementioned girls as well. Before her injury in 2001 she had been a top 15 player for 4 years (including once in the top 10), plus a GS Semi finalist, and quarterfinalist and wins over players like Hingis, Davenport and Capriati.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2002, 01:54 PM
tennisaddict. - Winning a tournament takes a lot more than doing well in it. As Anna has proven. You can have the ability to make the semis in a GS and NOT have the ability to win a Tier IV. Players who know how to win tournaments have had better careers than players who can't.

If you ask me whether Myskina or Dementieva is more likely to take advantage of a draw opening up, and winning a Tier I title, I'll take Myskina. Elena D doesn't know how to win, and winning is what it all about, not 'doing well' and occasionally attaining high rank. Don't you think Martina Hingis would trade 52 weeks at #1 for another GS title?

DEETHELICK
Jul 17th, 2002, 04:58 PM
So far Dementieva hasn't shown what it takes to win a tournament. She has admitted that it has been a mental problem and is working on it with her coach.

Since RG, she has had a good run of victories and I think it is helping her confidence. She is learning and seeing her play Justine at Wimby and losing in 2 tiebreaks shows that Elena is making ground.

If Myskina is likely to take titles she had 2 successive opportunites during the garsscourt season and didn't convert on either.

With no points to really defend during the hardcourt season (by far Elena's best surface), maybe she could elevate herself to a title. Her goal is to win a touney and I think she will achieve it.

But I don't think her 1st title is going to be a Tier I or II.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2002, 05:21 PM
For most of these players, Clijsters, Henin, Mauresmo and Dokic will be more roadblock than they can consistently get past. Having Hingis and Willaims2X waiting after that isn't a roadblock, it's a mountain.

Seven of the current top ten are 22 or younger. Where's the space for their peers to advance? That's not counting the four OTHER mutli-GS winners under the age of thirty who are still active on tour.

That's why I say trhese aren't 'up and coming'players. They're here. They're GETTING results. But the tours so deep, you can't get an easy match against #11 - #20, unless you're top five yourself. Look at it this way. Against even 1998 level competition, Shaughnessy would have made it into the top ten, and Hantuchova would already be there. The tour's that much better. Venus, Serena, Jenn, Kim, Jelena, And Justine are all MUCH better than they were in 1999. And except Hingis and MAYBE Mauresmo, no one's any worse.

If Hantuchova improves as expected and Elena D learns to hit winners with something besides a forehand, you'd have a top twelve where 11 of the 12 players had at least a GS final or a Tier I win. With all but three of them 23 or younger.

Player development in the sport may not be well organized, but it's sure working.

DEETHELICK
Jul 17th, 2002, 11:39 PM
Just looking at the three with no titles (Alexandra, Anna and Elena) they all have the talent to defeat the roadblocks and on their day, maybe even defeat the mountains too. I mean that is where all great players start from.

Alexandra: Talented girl no doubt, but she just doesn't seem to have stellar and consistent results. 1 win over Jen earlier isn't gona help. Kuti Kis defeated Jen last year before the FO....look at Jen, look at Kuti Kis. I also can't see her defeating the 'roadblock' group.

Anna: I can see her defeating the roadblocks and the mountains. She is very talented but she needs to sort out that 2nd serve and her confidence.

Elena: She can defeat Justine, Kim, Jelena, etc. and has done so in the past. She, like Anna, has also defeated a few of the 'mountain' group too.

The best chance of these three to take the next step is Elena. Her ranking helps her, she gets opportunities to play the top players regularly and has consistent results. Elena hasn't made the transition from 'up and comer' to 'top tenner' which is where she should be IMO.

But at some point it has to happen. Yes it is difficult, but that is what tennis is about. Making progress into the elite. Not many make it, but the promise Elena has shown will help her! I know other girls her age are making it difficult, but take Dokic. Her game hasn't exactly grown, she might be riding high now, but could deteriorate in the future. Her year so far has been very erratic.

All these young girls will have to keep on developing (which isn't likely for all of them) whilst girls like Daniela, Elena and Anastasia are improving as they want Top 10 status and are hungry to knock a few of the top tenners out.

BTW Volcana, Elena does hit winners other than the forehand ;)

Lisbeth
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:20 AM
Very interesting.

I think we should remember though that Venus made her first GS final at roughly the same age as Kim did and then didn't make another for three years. At the time, many people were saying she was never going to reach the dizzy heights .... and look how wrong they were! My point isn't that I think anyone on your list will definitely be as successful as Venus, just that we won't know for a few more years.

ys
Jul 18th, 2002, 01:04 AM
Serena is?

Thought Libra was from 24th Sept - 23 Oct?


Right. And her birthday is? I thought any Williams fan should know that by heart, if I know that..;)

polishprodigy
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:12 AM
When was the last time Conchita won a tournament? How about a tier-1??? :rolleyes:

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:24 AM
Number1Kim - Exactly. Kim made the RG final last year. Lost 8-10 in the third or something. We're not waiting to see if Kim has what it takes. Most of us are convinced.

Conchi's last Tier I win was Berlin 2000.

disposablehero
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by tennisaddict.
I agree Williams rulez, again if a key word. At this point Hantuchova is on the rise fast, but her achievements in winning a sub-standard Tier 1 (even beating Martina), Wimby Quarterfinalist, IMO don't rank her above Elena. This year? yes. But career wise? no. Don't forget Dementieva has career wins over Hingis and Davenport. Hantuchova's main claim to fame is beating Marti for the IW title. Hantuchova hasn't even ended a year in the top 30 yet :eek:, let alone been in the top 10 (although she will prob get there soon, good luck dani :kiss: )

Also, career wise, Anna rates above the aforementioned girls as well. Before her injury in 2001 she had been a top 15 player for 4 years (including once in the top 10), plus a GS Semi finalist, and quarterfinalist and wins over players like Hingis, Davenport and Capriati.

A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title and a GS Semi? I think GS Semis are huge acheivements, but this one is Daniela in a walk.

ys
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:48 AM
A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title and a GS Semi? I think GS Semis are huge acheivements, but this one is Daniela in a walk.

Comparing to Kournikova - A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title, GS Semi, GS quarters, Chase semis and three Tier I finals, plus unique achievement of beating 4 Top 10 players in 4 days, 2 GSs, 2 Championships and 10+ titles in doubles, finishing year as #1 in doubles and Top 10 singles? No contest.

Comparing to Dementieva - A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title, GS Semi, Chase semis, making R16 at last 4 Slams (one of only three players on all Tour ), Olympic silver, 4 finals on 4 differnt surfaces, 2 Fed Cup finals, reaching Top 10. A bit closer, but still no contest. Plus 0:3 head-to-head.

Daniela is exactly what they say - up-and-coming player. She so far basically does nto have a career to speak off. She reached semis or better in only 5 tournaments out of 40+. Comparing her to Kournikova or Dementieva is simply not fair at this point.

Buitenzorg
Jul 18th, 2002, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by conchita
I believe this should be the correct list:

04-13-79 Shaughnessy 2 titles
07-05-79 Mauresmo GS final
06-17-80 Williams, V GS 4
09-30-80 Hingis GS 5
12-15-80 Stevenson 0 titles
06-07-81 Kournikova 0 titles
07-08-81 Myskina 1 titles
09-17-81 Williams, S GS 3
10-15-81 Dementieva 0 titles
01-07-82 Tulyaganova 3 titles
04-16-82 CONCHITA MARTINEZ 1 GS title, 2 GS finals, 32 other titles (including many tier 1's)
06-01-82 Henin GS final, Tier I win
09-19-82 Danilidou 1 title
03-09-83 Bedanova 1 title
04-12-83 Dokic Tier I win (2)
04-23-83 Hantuchova Tier I
06-08-83 Clijsters GS final

:)


Angelique WIDJAJA (December 1984)
with 1 WTA SINGLE & 1 DOUBLES Titles!

Please don't forgetting about her!

Lisbeth
Jul 18th, 2002, 08:10 AM
Oh thanks, I see what you mean now:wavey:

Williams Rulez
Jul 18th, 2002, 08:57 AM
You're right ys... Serena is born on the 26th... lol, I'm horrid at remembering dates... :p

Cassius
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:21 AM
Comparing to Kournikova - A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title, GS Semi, GS quarters, Chase semis and three Tier I finals, plus unique achievement of beating 4 Top 10 players in 4 days, 2 GSs, 2 Championships and 10+ titles in doubles, finishing year as #1 in doubles and Top 10 singles? No contest.

Comparing to Dementieva - A Tier I and a GS Quarter compared to no title, GS Semi, Chase semis, making R16 at last 4 Slams (one of only three players on all Tour ), Olympic silver, 4 finals on 4 differnt surfaces, 2 Fed Cup finals, reaching Top 10. A bit closer, but still no contest. Plus 0:3 head-to-head.

Daniela is exactly what they say - up-and-coming player. She so far basically does nto have a career to speak off. She reached semis or better in only 5 tournaments out of 40+. Comparing her to Kournikova or Dementieva is simply not fair at this point.
When everything is listed out like that, it's very clear that Daniela has some way to go before she matches both Anna and Elena:).

the cat
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:52 AM
Daniela has a ways to go to catch Anna and Elena? LOL! :D

While I prefer Anna and Elena to Daniela, when did Anna or Elena ever win a tier 1 tournament and destroy Martina Hingis in the final? :confused: I must have missed it! ;)

And if Anna and Elena had Daniela's serve, they would have won a few titles by now! :eek: Not just one.

Hantuchova isn't chasing Kournikova and Dementieva. She is chasing Clijsters, Henin and Dokic.

Robbie.
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:03 PM
Winning a tournament takes a lot more than doing well in it. As Anna has proven. You can have the ability to make the semis in a GS and NOT have the ability to win a Tier IV. Players who know how to win tournaments have had better careers than players who can't.

Volcana this is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. I can't believe you are suggesting it is more difficult to win a tier IV againt suspect opposition than to win 5 matches against the best players in the world to reach a GS semifinal. Look at the points allocation for the respective achievements, obviously the WTA agrees with you :rolleyes:. And I think you probabaly would have found that Anna could have one a Tier IV at her best, except she was always entering I's and II's during that period.

I guess Myriam Casanova is a better player than anna and elena as well, considering she just one her first title (tier IV). She's been on the tour for five seconds, and isn't even in the top 80 but hey she has that precious title :rolleyes:

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2002, 12:21 PM
Vince Lombardi said it a long time ago in another sport, but it sure holds true in tennis.

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

ys
Jul 18th, 2002, 01:56 PM
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

Is it a quote of the day that I see it everywhere on wtaworld today? Or is it a broken record? ANd who the hell is Vince Lombardi to think that he knows about life and sport more than the rest of the world?

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:23 PM
Well, Vince Lombardi prolly would know as much or more about sport then anyone ever.

TSequoia01
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:27 PM
When you talk up and coming players, the first thing that pops in my mind is who will enter the top ten this year? Then who will enter the top ten next year? This year Daniela for sure probably after the Open replacing Mauresmo. Next year I like Daniilidou! She needs to get fit but has the game. She is a young girl who can improve her movement. Dokic must improve if she hopes to hang on to her top ten position because she will be challenged by Mauresmo, Hantuckova, and Daniilidou this year and next. :cool:

the cat
Jul 18th, 2002, 02:45 PM
Who is Vince Lombardi ys? :confused: Only arguably the greatest coach in the history of team sports anywhere in the world! :D

Vince Lombardi treated his players like dogs! :eek: But they played hard for him and the won numerous NFL Championships.

Believe me ys, you wish you had a Vince Lombardi type coaching the Russian National soccer team the last ten years! They would have done alot better than they did.

And the Russian National hockey team was fortunate enough to have a Vince Lombardi type of coach in the brutally tough Viktor Tikhinov! And they won plenty of World and Olympic gold medals. Then they get rid of Tikhinov, and the Russian National hockey team falls apart! :( Sure his time had come and gone as a coach. But Tikhinov's remarkable coaching record remains etched in stone! :) And will never be duplicated!

Back to Daniela. This girl is heading for the top five. And when she adds another 10 to 15 pounds to her frame, I think she will be better than Clijsters and Henin! :D

ys
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:07 PM
The greatest coach in the history of team sports? NFL is not a sport, the cat, don't you know..

And you know as little about Tihkhonov ans Soviet hockey that you even misspel his name.. Tikhonov was not the greatest coach of Russian. Tarasov was..

Back to Daniela. This girl is heading for the top five.

And the indication is? Winning the weakest Tier 1 of the year? Whom did she beat there? Henin who has very little idea how to play on US hardcourts? Or Hingis who was out of form and already balancing between tennis court and surgeon knife? What other player of ANY significance did she beat this year? Only Dokic. And Dokic has a tendency of serial losing to players. That's it. Only few times she was defeated by players who outrank her, all other times she was beaten by someone a Top 10 player is supposed to beat. Apart from one single tournament, where she was quite lucky, she has no other big results to speak of. Yes she will be Top 10 soon. But have you heard of a Top 10 player with only two semifinals on her rankings? Soon there will be one..

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:11 PM
Given the average age elite players started performing at a near-elite level, the question I usually ask first, 'who's seventeen?'

Who's gonna be a champion is a complex question. The more variables I can get rid of, the better. Anyone who's seventeen and performing at a really high level will get stronger, and will get better endurnce just by growing up. Age will make them better, no matter how dim the tennis bulb. Once they're nineteen, they're probably as tall as they will be, and probably won't get much stronger or run much faster unless they weight train.

Conditioning can make improvement. Look at Danilidou's conditioning at OZ and look at it now.

By physically, these are grownups. The youngest player on the list is 19. These aren't juniors playing above their level. Now is when we start to split the headcases from the level-headed.

This group has athletes, tennis players and athlete/tennis players. The first two groups are going to have non-descript careers ranked #15 - #50, with a Tier II or III win, and if they're lucky, three weeks in the top ten.

I look for three things.

1) Who can get to net when Serena or Justine is hell bent on getting there first.

2) Who can get to net when Venus, Monica or Lindsay is hitting the groundstrokes.

3) Who can hit a baseline winner with Venus across the net.

Anyone who can do even one of those things consistently is pretty guaranteed at least flirting with the top ten. And if they can't, they have no shot.

Hantuchova, for example, has performed consistently like a player who should be ranked just barely in the top ten. But while she beat Martina, she's shown no sign of being any threat to the other five multi GS winners in the top ten. She's not getting to net on any of them. She's certainly not beating Venus from the baseline. I THINK she just hasn't adjusted to trying to build points at the speed the elite players play.

Dementieva, OTOH, can hit winners from the baseline against anyone on the tour. She's a head case, but as Jana Novotna proved, a headcase can get it together late-in-career.

the cat
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:32 PM
ys, I'm confused! :confused: The NFL isn't a sport? LOL! Don't think of it as Professional Wrestling!

And ys, there is no need to be petty about my spelling! :sad:

Back to Daniela. She beat Henin and Hingis in a tier 1 tournamnet. I know it wasn't a great tier 1 field. But that was a big breakthrough for Daniela. And ys, be fair. Do you think Kournikova and Dementieva have an upside as big as Daniela's? I don't.

ys
Jul 18th, 2002, 03:36 PM
Not that I dsiagree, Volcana.. But you are oversimpifying things.. Getting to the net, hitting winners are not the only ways to win points. Accuracy, placement and depth can do as much damage as
power. It is not that just Williams sisters improved, it is that Hingis is not the same either. In 2000 she was able to play very well against Venus without any power at all. And I believe that even with Williams sisters at their current level, Hingis would be able to give them a good run, if it was not for her own slump. And she is not the only player of that type. I'd say, Myskina is quite similar.

DEETHELICK
Jul 18th, 2002, 04:50 PM
As Volcana said it, Elena has mental problems, something that she is rectifying.

I agree, Daniela has a title, so this year for her has been great. Career-wise, Elena has shown that she has consistent performances to stay a Top 15 player. This is Daniela's first foray into the Top 20. I know she'll make Top 10, but how long will she hold onto it for?

Mauresmo, Dementieva and Myskina are all credible top tenners, as well as Chanda :)

I feel that Elena is gona have a great season on the hardcourts. Something has changed in her approach to tennis since RG. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Elena has the best game to challenge the Top 10. Its all there, power, speed and a dynamite forehand. As well as a great physique for tennis.

Elena is only stuck where she is because of her mind. Elena will have to make the next step - gaining a title. Once she gets one, she'll be over the hump (same for Anna).

Although results, etc indicate otherwise, Elena is in the same group as Clijsters, Henin, Dokic in regards to talent. Maybe even moreso than some of those girls. Once she makes that BIG step forward, she'll definitely move one of those girls out and herself into the Top 10.

Weevee
Jul 18th, 2002, 09:22 PM
Rebump

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 10:12 PM
IMHO Elena D. doesn't have "mental problems". I think someone somewhere labelled her that just because she doesn't have a title yet. One thing she happens to have in common with Anna & Alex, who really do seem to have a little mental trouble going on ATM.

DEETHELICK
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:17 PM
Elena herself has admitted she had mental problems. She was sick of losing leads in sets like 4-1, etc. so she is working on that.

Plus in big matches, she is learning to take each point at a time, rather than freaking out about the whole game. Something Justine is also doing.

Elena has no travelling coach, no fitness instructor, just her mum. And she is not a qualified or talented tennis coach. Just a supportive mother. Kim, Justine, Jelena and Daniela have what Elena doesn't, but even still Elena is a Top 15 player. Her coach is based in Moscow and she goes back in between tourneys.

That talent is still untapped, and as seen with the Williams, having an unorthodox regime isn't a bad thing.

Freefall
Jul 18th, 2002, 11:41 PM
I know Elena D. said she had mental troubles, but I think she's too nice & was just agreeing when asked if she did. :p

I think she's more like Justine. Can sometimes choke a little. When people say "mental problems" I think of Anna & Alex. They seem to have Real problems ATM, something much more then Elena D. or Justine.

I think all four can overcome their mental troubles & contend for a GS title.

Williams Rulez
Jul 19th, 2002, 01:22 PM
Elena has mental laspes if not problems. There are periods where she would miss shot after shot, and it may be the same shot too. And what's worse is that she doesn't compromise so that can cost her dearly in a match.

Elena has all the tools to be in the top 10, except for her serve maybe, and definitely her head. So once that is sorted out, I think she will be as good as Dokic, Henin and Clijsters.

DEETHELICK
Jul 19th, 2002, 10:35 PM
LOL Freefall! Its funny that you think Elena 'just' agreed she had mental issues.

Anyway, bottom line is, she is working on it.

What I've noticed is that Elena is improving in consistency, something she lacked last year. At the the last 4 GS, she has made the 4th rd. Hopefully she doesn't become a 3 step pony, get to the 4th rd and duly lose (like Sandrine).

Elena played Justine very tough in their match at Wimby, IMO even better than Seles played her.

Again, its about a breakthrough win for her. She needs some affirmation she can play with the best and feel confident enough to take them down. Her match against Justine and her match against venus at Miami (where both were playing horribly) showed me how good a player she is.

I think Elena and Justine are the most talented out of them two and Clijsters and Dokic. Elena's forehand and Justine's backhand are the best in the business.

Thing is, she ain't up and coming no more, other players are gunning for her. This year seems to show Elena is taking steps in the right direction. And her serve needs to be improved.

Elena and Daniela will both be vying for a Top 10 spot, so it'll be interesting to see who makes it.

Freefall
Jul 19th, 2002, 10:49 PM
I was kidding, notice the :p face

I'm just trying to say her mental problems aren't all that bad or as bad as some peoples mental problems. Maybe this time is easy enough to understand.

DEETHELICK
Jul 19th, 2002, 10:58 PM
Whoops....sorry! :)

Her mental problems have to be kinda dodgy, especially losing to Fernandez at the French and Eleni in the finals in Netherlands being up a set. Plus she hasn't won a title. All these things point to mental pressures and a dodgy serve!

Let's hope Elena lives up to the potential that she has shown. If her, Daniela, Amelie, Anastasia and Chanda REALLY get it together, the Top 15 players in the world are all credible contenders for the big titles. And yes, I believe every girl I've named can beat a Willaims sister.

fhkung
Jan 6th, 2003, 10:58 PM
it's surprising to see so many young and new faces in TOP 100
in a matter of one year, interesting........:)

*JR*
Jan 6th, 2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Vince Lombardi said it a long time ago in another sport, but it sure holds true in tennis.

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." Except on this board, where to a lot of posters: "Looking good isn't everything, it's the only thing."

disposablehero
Jan 7th, 2003, 02:32 AM
Conchita Martinez was born 4-16-72, not 4-16-82. I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this.