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View Full Version : Who is most likely to beat a Williams sister at the US Open?


sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:48 PM
Who is most likely to stop the Williams' parade continuing this summer? I think Seles or Davenport are most likely to cause an upset at Flushing Meadow!

Kart
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:52 PM
Any of Seles, Davenport, Belgian duo or Capriati have a chance but I think that they will have to be upset early on by a player they underestimated if they are going to be upset at all.

Otherwise the only person I can see beating a Williams sister is the other sister :eek:.

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:53 PM
Ahhh, those darn Williames are such a nuisance... Let's find someone to take them out -------- :rolleyes: :eek: :fiery:

sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:58 PM
Monica has a lot of points to defend over the next few weeks, she beat Hingis twice, Serena, Capriati and Henin on the hardcourts last summer, so she knows how to play against the best at this time of year. I can't see how Venus and particularly Serena can maintain such a high level of play - the problem is, nobody is challenging them - if it gets close, Serena's forehand can still go all over the court - I think the player most likely to beat her is Capriati. I think Seles has the best overall chance of beating either - we will have to wait and see!

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:13 PM
The only player that has stopped a Williams from reaching a grandslam final in the last year is MONICA SELES.

2001 US Open:
Serena: final
Venus: champion

2002 Australian Open:
Serena: not entered
Venus: LOST TO MONICA

2002 French Open:
Serena: champion
Venus: final

2002 Wimbledon:
Serena: champion
Venus: final

The only one who can stop them is MONICA. She's the ultimate champion. Go Monica! :wavey:

TeeRexx
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:15 PM
Oh yeah, Davenport and Seles will stop VENUS and SERENA for sure. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Bet your savings and house on that thought. :)

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:21 PM
Without Monica, Venus and Serena wouldn't do what they are doing today. They have copied Monica's style of relentless attacking from both sides, power tennis and grunting. Monica IS the one who's going to stop them. Monica created the style that we all see today and she will have the last laugh.

Jarrett
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:27 PM
What a funny post.

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:34 PM
It's not funny, it's reality. I'm sure that Venus and Serena will also influence other players in the future. Mary Corillo has even said that during Monica's absence everyone imitated her style. There's no denying it and it's not a bad thing, everyone is influenced by someone else.

kevijntje
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:39 PM
kim clijsters off course , what do ya need to beat the sisters : speed kim is the fastest



go kimmie go:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:39 PM
Yes, in the early nineties, the Seles-Capriati rivalry was the biggest talking point in women's tennis - two players who hit the ball aggressively, hard and deep all the time off both wings - the difference then was Monica's mental toughness. Now, the difference is Capriati's fitness. The Williams sisters are very similar to Monica in their approach to the game - hit every ball for a winner, as hard as you can, but they have superior fitness - fitness is the key these days - if tennis was purely about hitting the ball then Seles would be the best ever, as I think she hits the ball better than anyone when it is in her hitting zone and she can dominate the rally. No-one has been able to imitate her mental approach, I still think she is the best competitor out there, although in tight situations - especially tiebreaks this year - she does come unstuck more often! I still think she has a great chance to cause an upset on the hardcourts!

essielewis
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:39 PM
What a funny post.

Don't laugh. It must be painful being a Seles fan.:p

Without Monica, Venus and Serena wouldn't do what they are doing today. They have copied Monica's style of relentless attacking from both sides, power tennis and grunting. Monica IS the one who's going to stop them. Monica created the style that we all see today and she will have the last laugh.

They "copies Monica's style" did they? And "Monica is the one who's going to stop them." How interesting.

Monica did beat Venus at the Aussie Open this year. But, wasn't Venus injured and not playing at her best? It still took her 3 sets to do it but she did beat Venus. So congrats to Monica. However, Monica didn't win the AO, did she? :eek: That's what I thought.:rolleyes:

I agree with Kart. Venus and/or Serena will have to be upset very early on in the tournament by someone they take lightly and who plays the match of her life. Otherwise, as they get further and further into the tournament it will be impossible to beat them. Look what happen when Venus had to go three at Wimbledon against someone (can't remember her name). Venus was so annoyed with herself that she beat her next two opponents in about 40 minutes each.;)

It's a darn shame everybody seems to be trying to figure out who is going to beat Venus and Serena rather than just enjoying their fabulous play.:sad: Such a waste of energy.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:44 PM
Monica is a great champion and a great player, but really all you have to do is look at the head to head. She has two wins over the williams sisters, two!

I think she will win a few more, but venus and serena are getting better and better and monica is already 28, how much longer will she continue to play?

Bigkimfan
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:48 PM
Well, kim can beat venus or serena too!!!

c'mon kim!!!

sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:55 PM
Monica revolutionised women's tennis like only Navratilova and Graf had done before her - she took the game to another level and introduced power tennis. All the talk of how powerful the William's sisters are, who can beat them, etc., was around 10 years ago when Monica was at her best - the difference is that, naturally, the game has moved on and now players are hitting the ball even harder. I think you have to give credit to Monica, as she single handedly changed the face of women's tennis. Players had to hit the ball harder, be more aggressive to counter the early ball she hit. Now, it is the trend rather than the exception, and this all stems from Monica - that includes the William's sisters, as they freely admit themselves. There favourite shot, the drive volley, was brought to the game by Seles. Her influence can be found all over their backcourt game. The fact that Monica can compete against them shows just how good her game is. So credit where it is due please.

TSequoia01
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:05 PM
Monica did change the face of women's tennis and raised the bar with vicious groundstrokes. The sisters matched her groundstrokes, then added the serve and speed as well. So they have raised the bar another notch or two. :cool:

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:06 PM
I really respect Monica .. Infact she is right up there as one of my all time favourites... but I personally believe that "some" of her fans are in a permanent state of delusion.
They keep magically hoping the years will roll away and she will somehow recapture what she had ten years ago.
Why can't they just appreciate the Monica of today ?? My goodness, she's still in the game and doing wonderfully-- she's the #4 player in the world for crying out loud
:o

essielewis
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:12 PM
The fact that Monica can compete against them shows just how good her game is. So credit where it is due please.

As someone pointed out, Monica has beaten the Williams sisters TWO times . . . TWO times!!! And Kim has also beaten them once each. I believe Justine has also beaten Serena and so has Patty. No one is unbeatable so someone has to beat either Venus or Serena at some point during the year. Monica isn't any better at beating them than any of the other top players.

Monica's game WAS good and people have given her credit for upping the ante in womens' tennis. But the Williams sisters have raised the bar even higher and someone else will eventually come along and raise the bar even higher than that. In my opinion, nobody is "copying" anybody. Every generation someone comes along and raises the bar. You don't do that by copying, you do it by doing something different and better.

sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:26 PM
Essielewis you are wrong, the Williams sisters have raised the bar by hitting the ball harder - that cannot be classed as doing something different. Monica did something different because she came along and not only hit the ball harder, but off both wings. Previously, Graf had come onto the scene hitting the forehand, then Seles took it further by attacking off both sides. In this respect, the Williams sisters have copied her - yet they have brought something new because they not only hit the ball hard but they have great movement as well, a combination which no-one else has, so it is a combination of both things, copying success and raising the bar

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:40 PM
How dare them??? The evil sisters copied Monica and the nerve of them not to send her a check for credit :eek:

TeeRexx
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:03 PM
Yeah VENUS & SERENA copied Monica's two handed forehand as well, I guess. :rolleyes:

I had no idea that Monica invented the two hands backhand that the Williams utilize.

Did Monica invent the serve also?

Wow!

ktwtennis
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:19 PM
It's the arrogance of you Williams fans that drives us Seles fans crazy! First, you hardly give credit to Monica for beating Venus at the AO. Then you don't even recognize that Monica DID bring in the incrdible power off both sides to women's tennis. Venus and Serena DID copy her style. I mean Venus has REPEATEDLY said that Monica was her favorite player as a child! Finally, you can't even remember the name of the player that pushed Venus at Wimbledon, Maureen DRAKE to even give credit to her. PLEASE give credit where credit is due!

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:04 PM
ktwtennis , what arrogance??? I personally started a thread giving Maureen Drake credit for taking a set from Venus at Wimbledon... I don't have the time nor the inclination to go find it now. Where were you when "many" Monica fans claimed she was ill after her ¼ final loss at Roland Garros???

sixthjude
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:30 PM
How can anyone say that the Williams' sisters game is not a 21st century version of Monica's?! Monica CREATED power tennis, she was the first player tom use the drive volley, to take the ball early on every shot and to see every shot as a potential winner. IN this way, the Williams sisters are just like Monica. Monica is the original and I can't wait for her to bring the Williams sisters down a peg or two this summer.

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by sixthjude
How can anyone say that the Williams' sisters game is not a 21st century version of Monica's?! Monica CREATED power tennis, she was the first player tom use the drive volley, to take the ball early on every shot and to see every shot as a potential winner. IN this way, the Williams sisters are just like Monica. Monica is the original and I can't wait for her to bring the Williams sisters down a peg or two this summer.

FYI sixthjude -- most of the Williams fans on here are also Monica fans, so STOP trying to create a rivalry that is NOT:rolleyes:

tennischick
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:36 PM
OK back to the original question: who is more likely to beat a Williams sister at the USO?

the answer is simple: another Williams sister...:o ;)

TSequoia01
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by sixthjude
How can anyone say that the Williams' sisters game is not a 21st century version of Monica's?! Monica CREATED power tennis, she was the first player tom use the drive volley, to take the ball early on every shot and to see every shot as a potential winner. IN this way, the Williams sisters are just like Monica. Monica is the original and I can't wait for her to bring the Williams sisters down a peg or two this summer.

Previous posts have already agreed with you. The Sisters simply have raised the bar further. I have read nowhere anyone not giving Monica credit for being a pioneer. The Sisters simply have added serving, fitness, and speed to the mix. But in doing so they have created a new way of playing, a way that Monica simply cannot match. No disrespect intended just fact. As far as Monica bringing down the Sisters......she may win a match but that is about it. Monica is the past. The Sisters are the present and future. :cool:

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:58 PM
let us not also forget the "grunting imitation" too ;)

RockSteady
Jul 14th, 2002, 08:03 PM
A healthy Clijsters could beat both Williams sisters.
If Kim loses a match it's because of her errors. When she controls said errors, you are looking at a player with no weakness. Good serve and good return, fastest player other than Serena, best court movement on tour, great anticipation, good net play, and what separates her from the other dime-a-dozen power players is her fantastic touch.

Hopefully she will come back free of injury and improved from her last few tournaments, because her potential is through the roof.

Elleke
Jul 14th, 2002, 08:35 PM
yeah!!! come on Kim!!! i hope she will be better soon!!!!!!

R. DIS
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:50 AM
I think more than anything Venus and Serena copied Jen's game not Monica's.

persond
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by sixthjude
How can anyone say that the Williams' sisters game is not a 21st century version of Monica's?! Monica CREATED power tennis, she was the first player tom use the drive volley, to take the ball early on every shot and to see every shot as a potential winner. IN this way, the Williams sisters are just like Monica. Monica is the original and I can't wait for her to bring the Williams sisters down a peg or two this summer.

Sixthjude,
And if this doesn't happen, what??? I really don't see Monica performing much better than any of the other top players this summer, but, we'll just have to wait and see!! Why must certain Seles fans constantly pit Venus and Serena AGAINST Monica???? It's quite evident that the Sisters and Monica get on very well with each other, and only their rabid fans that can't seem to get along. It just doesn't make sense to contiually try and forge a rivalry between Monica and the Williamses. Most Williams fans are also fans of Monica as well, and this back and forth is just not necessary.

Monica and the Williamses have each brought something good and wonderful to womens' tennis and noone can deny them that!!

sixthjude
Jul 15th, 2002, 06:07 PM
This thread was not intended to create a rivalry between Monica and the sisters!!! As I have said, I think Seles or Davenport are most likely to cause an upset this summer, so I am looking forward to some good matches!!! I agree, there is great mutual respect between Monica and the Williams sisters!!! So let's put an end to this one, and all Monica, Venus and Serena fans can live harmoniously!!!

anton
Jul 15th, 2002, 08:28 PM
I dont know but I hope somebody beats Serena so Venus will have an easier time winning the title.

PamShriver
Jul 15th, 2002, 09:08 PM
Getting back on topic, I really think that the most likely chance of a Williams sister losing will be early rather than later. They are both the best in the world right now and bringing their game up a notch during the second week. That being said of the women most likely to face the sisters in the second week I would think that an in-shape Clijsters would have the best shot. She consistently goes toe to toe with them no matter the surface and she doesn't seem to go AWOL under pressure like her country woman. Cap always has a chance, though, I suspect that she would have a better shot against Serena than Venus. She knows she can beat Serena, she has yet to beat Venus. Further, I think that if Serena is going to have to prove that she can take the heat of being Number 1, she's done great so far, but she has been a wee bit chokey in the past so if either of the two aren't going to make it to the final, I would go with Serena.

Monica? Well, I just don't see her defeating either of them right now. Yes, I believe that the Willis are too good and Monica is not in good enough shape to challenge them. That being said, I think that if she doesn't have to face either of the sisters she has the best shot of winning the tourney over any other girl in the draw-kind of hard to believe, though that she wouldn't have to play at least one of them at some point-I would think that she will be able to take Cap, and Lindsey is a question mark. She still seems to have a pretty good handle on the Belgian girls (grass excluded) so if others take care of the Willis for her, than it's her tournament. A little far fectched, I know, but stranger things have happened, especially at the Open.

I, actually think that Dokic has a better shot at knocking out one of the Willis behind Cap and Clijsters. If she's on and Venus or Serena is not quite there, she could pull off a biggy.

I don't see Lindsey taking it to the sisters just yet, she's going to be rusty and the Willis have both had her number lately, that's a couple of hurdles that will be too hard to get over.

I think the most likely scenario, however, is for a younger player to take one of the sisters out. Maybe Zvonereva? That girl hits one hard ball and while she's streaky, that's what an upset artist is usually made of. I think that her game will be most potent on the hard courts of Flushing. Other options? Casanova seems like the real deal, I haven't seen her play yet, so not sure if she can match the Willis or handle their pace. Majoli gave Hingis a horrible scare last year, if she can take the pace she just might shock an off kilter Venus or Serena.

Still, I wouldn't count on not having a Venus/Serena final.

Elleke
Jul 15th, 2002, 09:19 PM
I hope that Kim can do it!!! hope she is back like she was last year.. cuz it's already three grand slams with a final serena-venus, i hope that there are players who can bring variation in that.. and especially i hope that kim will do that .. so come on every player do what you can against them cuz i really get sick of all the time serena-venus !!

Bright Red
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:14 PM
I think it will be All-Williams IV in New York. I can't see anyone beating them.


Go Venus!!!! Time for a 3-peat. Let NO ONE stand in your way (This includes any and all little baby sisters) :eek:

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:38 PM
sixthjude - Everyone here didn't see Monica in the early 90's. If they had, there'd be no need for you to write any of that, because they'd know. I've been writing that same thing for years. Monica IS the prototype of the modern baseline power player. THE prototype.

Forget that Monica has few victories over the Williamses. Rather, consider that Monica is older, slower, heavier, has less endurance, and her second set groundstrokes now land near the service line. For all that, she's still #4 in the world. I'm not going to say 1991 Monica could beat 2001 Venus, cause Venus is my one and only, and I won't even bother being objective. But if you saw the 1999 Wimbledon QF between Venus and Steffi, realize that Monica in 1991 was better than Steffi was in 1999. Not a little better. A LOT better.

And Monica is a player I've never really cared for. I'm not blind though. The United States has produced four multiple GS champs since Monica arrived. And they are all variations on the 'Monica' theme.

Baseline power, corner to corner, til you get something weak.

Lindsay will kill it, by just blasting a groundie right by the hapless foe.
Venus will kill it quicker, but miss more.
Serena MIGHT kill it, she might try to follow it to net.
Jenn will kill it off the forehand, otherwise she'll try to force you to hit to her forehand, THEN kill it.

Monica kill withthe short angle.

But its all, stay on the baseline, make them give you something weak, and abuse it.

Vanity
Jul 15th, 2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Bright Red
Go Venus!!!! Time for a 3-peat. Let NO ONE stand in your way (This includes any and all little baby sisters) :eek:

Only in her dreams. She won't 3-peat or win a slam ever again. It's done for Venus i'm afraid.....

Virginia Wade
Jul 15th, 2002, 11:14 PM
I'd love a crack at them...although it depends on my varacoise veins.

BigTennisFan
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:10 AM
World'sGreatestFanOf_______ is lying in bed at night just seething that the Williams sisters have fulfilled all of the predictions of a certain "crazy" father, who shall of course remain nameless.:o

Rather than enjoy this unique moment in Women's tennis, which shall never come again, World'sGreatestFanOf_____ says that had it not been for _________ there is no way that the Williams's sisters could have reached their pinnacle. O no, they had to "steal" their shots from ________.


I can't wait for the next theory that comes up to attempt to dinminish the accomplishments of V&S.

'Twas ever thus!;)

BigTennisFan
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Vanity


Only in her dreams. She won't 3-peat or win a slam ever again. It's done for Venus i'm afraid.....


Seems to me that these same words were spoken a few years ago after a certain younger Williams sister had only won the '99 US Open.

I guess it's human nature to not learn from experience.:D

Buitenzorg
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:17 AM
Lindsay DAVENPORT, Monica SELES, Martina HINGIS (if she's playing), Justine HENIN, Kim CLIJSTERS, Daniella HANTUCHOVA.

Playa
Jul 16th, 2002, 12:42 AM
That's funny how you can talk for hours about how Monica introduced power play in tennis and still ignore
The pionneer in that discipline, I mean the first and greatest Power player of all time was Stefi Graff

Jennifer, yes Jen was also a powerplayer and at a tender age of 14 please.
then Monica came along ...but Graf was the first player to mix femeninity , aggressiveness and power IMHO

and the Williams sisters took it a notch further.

oh yeah to answer this tread, No-one sorry....

regards.

playa

ktwtennis
Jul 16th, 2002, 01:19 AM
First, we're saying Monica introduced aggression on BOTH sides. Second, Steffi wasn't old enough to have influenced Monica's way of playing. She said herself that when she was young and learning how to play, she only knew two players--Evert and Navratilova. So you're wrong there Playa!

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:22 AM
vanity, choke on your hate!!!

Venus if she is playing her best will win again!! Hopefully Serena will lose early so Richard and Serena won't influence Venus' play.

I have a strong feeling Chanda Rubin or Alexandra Stevenson or Moshana Washingston will beat Serena.

Vanity
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:27 AM
Mashona Washington?!?!
you must be joking, LOL!
She can't even beat the Nathalie Vierin's of the world, let alone the world #1 Serena....

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:30 AM
yea, but her dad wont be telling her to ease up either!!!
Venus get a grip and LET IT RIP!!!!
R.I.P. SERENA!!
YOURE GOING DOWN!!!

persond
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by korn
I hope that Kim can do it!!! hope she is back like she was last year.. cuz it's already three grand slams with a final serena-venus, i hope that there are players who can bring variation in that.. and especially i hope that kim will do that .. so come on every player do what you can against them cuz i really get sick of all the time serena-venus !!

:D :D Too bad, you won't get sick of Kornikova in every final of the slams!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 02:48 AM
Anna making the final would be great for tennis!!
She played a 3 setter against Serena in Sydney so maybe Anna can take Seren to 3 sets again in New York!! I have tickets so GO ANNA!!

mboyle
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Oh yeah, Davenport and Seles will stop VENUS and SERENA for sure. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Bet your savings and house on that thought. :)

Tee, I believe I have said this, but please allow others to at least hope that Vee and Ree can be beaten (which they can) also, I don't see anywhere that anyone said that Monica and/or Lindsay were DEFINATELY going to beat the WIlliams Sisters, just said that in someone else's opinion they were the two most likely people. I personally think Vee and Ree CAN keep up their forms for at least another month or so, but I also think that these two ladies are capable of beating the Williams Sisters. As you have made quite clear throughout these threads, you think that Vee and Ree are never going to loose another match to anyone but eachother. I respect your opinion, but cannot see why you insist on mocking the opinions of others. Remeber, nothing in the future is 100% guranteed, and most importantly, please respect other people's opinions, and I will try hard to do the same (I admit my record on this topic has been bad over the past few months, but I intend to try hard to change this)

mboyle
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by anton
vanity, choke on your hate!!!

Venus if she is playing her best will win again!! Hopefully Serena will lose early so Richard and Serena won't influence Venus' play.

I have a strong feeling Chanda Rubin or Alexandra Stevenson or Moshana Washingston will beat Serena.

Hmmmmmmmm, I think you are racist for only thinking other black females can beat Serena :p (just kidding, I could not resist copying the oversensitivity and silliness of other people's comments of posters being racist for seemingly no reason! Don't kill me please) ANYWAY, Who is Mashona Washington (I assume she is black as everyone else you listed is)

mboyle
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by RockSteady
A healthy Clijsters could beat both Williams sisters.
If Kim loses a match it's because of her errors. When she controls said errors, you are looking at a player with no weakness. Good serve and good return, fastest player other than Serena, best court movement on tour, great anticipation, good net play, and what separates her from the other dime-a-dozen power players is her fantastic touch.

Hopefully she will come back free of injury and improved from her last few tournaments, because her potential is through the roof.

I respectfully disagree. A: Her weakness is her forehand. It repeatedly breaks down under pressure from what I have seen. (It can also be her biggest weapon) B: She has a good first serve (not as good as Vee, Ree, or Lindsay, not as good percentage or placement as Monica either) but just an average second serve. C: She has a good return but not a superb return like Monica or Jennifer D: Venus is faster than Kim E: Venus and Serena have better court movement F: She never EVER comes to the net so I would not know if her volley is any good G: I think her touch is about as good as Jennifer, Venus, and Serena
In Short: In my opinion, she does everything well, but Venus, Serena, and Jennifer do it better. Also, the errors thing is a HUGE if.

mboyle
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Volcana



Jenn will kill it off the forehand, otherwise she'll try to force you to hit to her forehand, THEN kill it.

But its all, stay on the baseline, make them give you something weak, and abuse it.

I think that Capriati's backhand is the most underrated shot in women's tennis. She can hit is just as hard as her forehand, and though she perfers the forehand, she can hit winners off the backhand side.

conchita
Jul 16th, 2002, 06:52 AM
Excuse me, this thread should be entitled, "who could beat Conchita Martinez at this years US Open"?

:)

Amanda
Jul 16th, 2002, 06:55 AM
...that's an easy one....just about all the top ranked players.

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 07:16 AM
Mashna Washington is the sister of Mal Washington and my listing only Black player only mocks that some people think that white players are the best and most "pleasant " or "artistic" players out there. Also dont know how many times I have heard Black players cant rally.

conchita
Jul 16th, 2002, 08:23 AM
excuse me-i believe conchita COULD HAVE easily beat dokic in 2 sets at the french open, testud in 3 at i think charleston and she should have beat raymond-not that she is necessarily a "tyop-ranked players".

Also, conchita has 11 more title than venus so she still has the ability! :)

cheeky
Jul 16th, 2002, 10:43 AM
yes,and most of those came when venus or serena weren't even on tour,venus or serena have won the US Open for the past 3 years,so whats to stop them from winning again!!!

(and,by the way could have,should have,would have,NEVER results to a win!!!!)