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Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:36 PM
These are all Martina's losses since Jan 2001. Rather a long list.
You can see why retirement is in the discussion, if you're unbiased. :)

OZ 2001 FR Jenn 4-6 3-6
Toray 2001 FR Lindsay 7-6 4-6 2-6
Indian Wells 2001 SF Kim 2-6 6-2 1-6
Miami 2001 SF Venus 3-6 6-7
Amelia Island 2001 QF Arantxa 2-6 4-6
Charleston 2001 FR Jenn 0-6 6-4 4-6
Berlin 2001 SF Amelie 6-2 0-6 4-6
Rome 2001 SF Amelie 4-6 6-7
Roland Garros 2001 SF Jenn 4-6 3-6

Wimbledon 2001 R1 Virginia RUANO-PASCUAL 4-6 2-6

San Diego 2001 SF Monica 3-6 4-6
Los Angeles 2001 SF Monica 3-6 6-1 4-6

U.S. Open 2001 SF Serena 3-6 2-6
Moscow 2001 QF Elena D 2-6 2-6
Stuttgart 2001 SF Lindsay 1-2 Retired

Australian 2002 FR Jenn 6-4 6-7 2-6
Scottsdale 2002 SF Serena 1-6 6-3 4-6
Indian Wells 2002 FR Daniela 3-6 4-6
Miami 2002 QF Serena 4-6 0-6
Hamburg 2002 SF Venus 5-7 3-6

BUT ... If you dig a little deeper, the picture changes.
Drop off all the losses to other GS winners. After all,
a GS winner is by definition as elite player, or was one.
What does that leave in the loss column?
Indian Wells 2001 SF Kim 2-6 6-2 1-6
Berlin 2001 SF Amelie 6-2 0-6 4-6
Rome 2001 SF Amelie 4-6 6-7

Wimbledon 2001 R1 Virginia RUANO-PASCUAL 4-6 2-6

Moscow 2001 QF Elena D 2-6 2-6
Indian Wells 2002 FR Daniela 3-6 4-6

That looks a bit more 'Hingis-esque'. Now drop off any GS finalists or Tier I winners.
Again, those are elite or near-elite players. No shame in losses there.

Wimbledon 2001 R1 Virginia RUANO-PASCUAL 4-6 2-6

Moscow 2001 QF Elena D 2-6 2-6

Well, quite a short list. If you're only losing to GS winners and finalists, you're not performing too badly.
So the true question is, can Martina's ego take not ever having a chance to be #1 again? Because there's certainly no reason for her to retire based on wins and losses.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:52 PM
recent is like yesterday or last week.

tennis moves so fast that this is ancient.

Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:35 PM
Yeah, that word 'recent' is kinda ambiguous. I changed the title of the thread so no one who didn't want to waste their time on old data from 2001 and 2002 would be misled.

Weevee
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:55 PM
The ancient history of a 21 year old

MartinaI
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:43 PM
You are hardly unbiased Volcana, nobody ever is! I ama huge fan of Martina and she will only retire if her injuries force her to. I think its your ego that is in danger of a bashing if Martina does come back, which she will. She is one of the most resilient players in the history of the sport. People have been putting her down since 1999 when she won her last GS title but she has never caved. A great lesson to all of us I think.

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:46 PM
I just still can't believe that Martina had 4 match points at this year's Australian Open and didn't win it. This in my opinion can prove to be a turning point, I doubt she will ever be the same.

Nimi
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:03 PM
"to anyone un-biased"

that came from Volcana :rolleyes:

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 02:36 AM
Of course I'm not unbiased. I did make the mistake of thinking that anyone who read the thread would realize that 'unbiased' was sarcasm. You'd have to be VERY biased to assume a player that only lost to players who made GS finals was washed up. I suppose that's why emoticons are popular.

RockSteady
Jul 15th, 2002, 02:48 AM
"Moscow 2001 QF Elena D 2-6 2-6"

Heh, this was her last loss in 2001, and it pretty much summed up the season for her. I mean, that had to be her lowest point. I thought the Serena loss was as bad as it gets, but...

Anyway, this year, her losses are nothing to cry about, except that one to Serena. But no, her record isn't terrible, and I think she can be #1 again. Why?

1) The top players don't play all 17 tournaments, not even Jen anymore.
2) She was #1 before she got injured in 2001. She can't POSSIBLY play worse than she did in 2001!
3) She had the most year-to-date rankings points before her injury.

But what do I know?

lrg bllt
Jul 15th, 2002, 06:02 AM
:rolleyes: are we gonna bring up the past 2 years of everyone on tour now..

saki
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:58 AM
The interesting thing about many of these losses is that Martina often manages to win or make very close, the second set of a match against a powerful player.

I have every confidence that Melanie and Martina will be thinking about that. They need to work out what it is that martina manages to do right in some of those second sets that she doesn't manage in the rest of the match. Martina said that she'd been following Wimbledon & with her tennis mind I'm sure she'll be thinking about how she can beat these players.

I'm sure that Martina will come back very strong. She always does start the season well & coming back from injury will be the same kind of fresh start. I don't know if she'll keep it up, but there we go.

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 12:27 PM
so_tred - We could, but most players last two years on tour don't look as good as Martina's. Actually, with exception of Jenn, Venus and Serena, NO ONE'S last two years on tour look better than Martina's. So sure, post anyone's results you like. I'M not doing all that work, but I'll sure support YOU doing it.

TSequoia01
Jul 15th, 2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by saki
The interesting thing about many of these losses is that Martina often manages to win or make very close, the second set of a match against a powerful player.

I think this has more to do with the power player than say Martina. They just tend to wear down a bit. Allowing Martina a chance to play. Sometimes when she plays a player like Serena, Venus, or Lindsay she is not allowed to play. She is on the defensive on their serve and hers. But once the power edge is off, Martina can then get into the rallies. :cool: