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View Full Version : So who is the best at their best? ((Williams fans get in here! >:()) Ju fans go away


supergrunt
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:16 AM
I guess I'm in the minority when I put Serena. :shrug: She hasn't really played all that well this year because of injuries and lack of play.

Expat
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:19 AM
cut it out
i am as big a fan of serena as you are
and yes peak serena still beats peak justine
but greatness also means being fit and able in addition to having talent
in my company theres a signboard
you dont get paid for what u know
you get paid for how u use what u know
same goes for tennis and for talent

supergrunt
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:21 AM
cut it out
i am as big a fan of serena as you are
and yes peak serena still beats peak justine
but greatness also means being fit and able in addition to having talent
in my company theres a signboard
you dont get paid for what u know
you get paid for how u use what u know
same goes for tennis and for talent

intersting :)

David55
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:25 AM
Tracy.

supergrunt
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:26 AM
Tracy.

:( active players ONLY

David55
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:30 AM
:( active players ONLY
Henin and Serena are tied for best of the post-Tracy era. I can't choose between them. :)

danieln1
Sep 11th, 2007, 04:32 AM
Davenport

ViennaCalling
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:01 AM
Mary (she is an active player) :armed:

Tennisstar86
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:05 AM
Seles......and i think thats a pretty much given...

IceSkaTennisFan
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:09 AM
Seles......and i think thats a pretty much given...
Especially given that after 9 posts, her name was only mentioned once.

Serena's 07 Australian Final was her best ever. Sure, she may be capable of more, but let's see it. Anyone want to top that performance? Go ahead :p

Juju4ever
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:14 AM
I guess Justine...
But if to be honest, nobody can play a perfect match. There are always gonna be mistakes, so nobody is at her best during the whole match.

PLP
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:15 AM
Venus.

DimaDinosaur
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Serena

Lulu.
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:20 AM
Serena of course.

gaggleguy
Sep 11th, 2007, 08:20 AM
Dementieva

Wayn77
Sep 11th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Graf - no question.

LudwigDvorak
Sep 11th, 2007, 09:42 AM
Dementieva

:weirdo:

I'll go with a Williams sister. Either one.

saint2
Sep 11th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Sharapova.

Kworb
Sep 11th, 2007, 10:50 AM
Justine

HenryMag.
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:22 AM
Justine

mckyle.
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:24 AM
stop it.

WhatTheDeuce
Sep 12th, 2007, 01:37 AM
I seriously think its Venus. I know I'm in the minority there, but when she's in top form I just feel like she's the most aggressive and hits the hardest, closes the net extremely well which makes her tough to pass, and she can get to more balls than anyone.

At the moment Henin is clearly in the best form, but I still like to think that Venus playing her absolute best would take down Justine's best. And Serena's too.

Mightymirza
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:05 AM
just 3 weeks ago the same poll would have given completely different results :o Anyways I think personally justine has the best game but she has issues with her nerves,concentration as well(Unlike serena who usually dint hav yipes while closing out matches back in 2002)..Atleast jujus honest enough to admit them most of times..

PLP
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:21 AM
I seriously think its Venus. I know I'm in the minority there, but when she's in top form I just feel like she's the most aggressive and hits the hardest, closes the net extremely well which makes her tough to pass, and she can get to more balls than anyone.

At the moment Henin is clearly in the best form, but I still like to think that Venus playing her absolute best would take down Justine's best. And Serena's too.

I am glad that somebody agreed with me, :wavey: !

I am quite surprised Venus is only at 10%..I know it just a silly poll though so I won't be too upset, LOL. :lol:

TSequoia01
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:39 AM
I have watched all in the modern era, Serena at her best was better than all of them by far. Her physical tools just were so much greater. Even Venus.

Summer_Snow
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:57 AM
Not a fan of her but I must have to say Venus as well, follow closely by Serena

Dmitry
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:31 AM
Clijsters I think

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:33 AM
Serena of course. :rolleyes: Not even a contest.

Nicolás89
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:58 AM
he is trying to bash justine everytime he can since serena is her bitch, and this poll proves it, besides this is at least the fifth time i see this topic thread. sorry it didnt work :tape:

brent-o
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:13 AM
I seriously think its Venus. I know I'm in the minority there, but when she's in top form I just feel like she's the most aggressive and hits the hardest, closes the net extremely well which makes her tough to pass, and she can get to more balls than anyone.

At the moment Henin is clearly in the best form, but I still like to think that Venus playing her absolute best would take down Justine's best. And Serena's too.

I completely agree. Venus is just devastatingly good at her best. Even Serena is not that unstoppable in my opinion. Problem is Venus is a little more streaky and her best does not come out as often as Serena.

annalu
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:32 AM
Justine without a single doubt

supergrunt
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:42 AM
Justine is in the lead at 53% :rolls:

frenchie
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:46 AM
Serena then Venus then Henin!

RJWCapriati
Sep 12th, 2007, 06:54 AM
S. Williams

Viktymise
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Venus and Serena definatley.

Can't believe Henin is leading the poll :o

austennis
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:36 AM
i picked venus but would have gone martina if there was button.. and i forgot other lol

Yasmine
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:42 AM
at their best: Serena. Not a doubt.

Yasmine
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:44 AM
cut it out
i am as big a fan of serena as you are
and yes peak serena still beats peak justine
but greatness also means being fit and able in addition to having talent
in my company theres a signboard
you dont get paid for what u know
you get paid for how u use what u know
same goes for tennis and for talent
I like this view :yeah:

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:20 AM
Justine is in the lead at 53% :rolls:

What goes around comes around.

Tennisaddict
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:31 AM
Venus at her best is an awesome sight to behold. I think she can beat Serena's best and Henin's best.

kittyking
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Well I thought Davenport was pretty good (im gonna get so many bad reps for saying that :o )

Out of Serena, Venus or Justine I think its clear who the best player is....
Justine, easily the best

SunriseSunset
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:50 AM
Serena.

Mr.Kardashian
Sep 12th, 2007, 12:12 PM
1.Serena
2.Venus
3.Justine
4.Mauresmo

darice
Sep 12th, 2007, 12:18 PM
I guess I'm in the minority when I put Serena. :shrug: She hasn't really played all that well this year because of injuries and lack of play.

no you're not! i picked rena, too. :wavey: she's just out of shape right now but what's great about her is that she can still win a slam when she's not 100%. :bounce:

Rollo
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Mary Pierce.

At her best she served big and returned bigger. She's put major whippings on all the top stars at one time or another.


All these "at their best" threads are sort of silly though. More championships are won by those who manage to win playing far below their best at times.

Mount Everst like "peaks" are 1 in 100.

Henin, Venus, and Serena all won majors this year. They got through many of those matches playing far below peak form.

The real question should be-who wins when they are less than 100%

DimaDinosaur
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Dementieva

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

I hate you for making me spit out my drink!

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:41 PM
Serena, obviously. People point out the AO final, but is that REALLY her peak?

Didn't she get 100% first serves in in a match against Hingis one year?

In the AO final, she served around 65%.

Hypotheticals aside, Serena's shown that in real life matches, she was (is) capable of more than any other female tennis player.

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Mary Pierce.

At her best she served big and returned bigger. She's put major whippings on all the top stars at one time or another.


All these "at their best" threads are sort of silly though. More championships are won by those who manage to win playing far below their best at times.

Mount Everst like "peaks" are 1 in 100.

Henin, Venus, and Serena all won majors this year. They got through many of those matches playing far below peak form.

The real question should be-who wins when they are less than 100%

See, I have a problem with this argument. You're saying that it's silly to ask who does better at 100%. But whenever someone picks a favorite for a tournament, or predicts the winner of a match, we are implicitly assuming that the players involved will be at a certain level.

With this argument, we just raise the level we expect the player to be at- from 75%, or 80%, to 100%.

homogenius
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Pierce

Emina.
Sep 12th, 2007, 02:51 PM
:speakles: ... :eek: ... :help:

Serena of course :)

---

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:01 PM
Mary Pierce.

At her best she served big and returned bigger. She's put major whippings on all the top stars at one time or another.


All these "at their best" threads are sort of silly though. More championships are won by those who manage to win playing far below their best at times.

Mount Everst like "peaks" are 1 in 100.

Henin, Venus, and Serena all won majors this year. They got through many of those matches playing far below peak form.

The real question should be-who wins when they are less than 100%

:worship: I totally agree, also with the first part about Mary Pierce :worship:

Craigy
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:01 PM
Aneres?

Renalicious
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Serena, obviously. People point out the AO final, but is that REALLY her peak?

Didn't she get 100% first serves in in a match against Hingis one year?

In the AO final, she served around 65%.

Hypotheticals aside, Serena's shown that in real life matches, she was (is) capable of more than any other female tennis player.

Yep, the AO final, I feel wasn't even Serena's peak. It was about 80%. I don't think we have seen Serena fully peak yet, nor do I think we are going to see her fully peak, because it's very hard to play a perfect match. 80% for her though is like 150% for Henin or some other player.

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm sorry to spoil the party, but Serena reached her peak years ago and will most likely never reach it again. :sad:

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:48 PM
I'm sorry to spoil the party, but Serena reached her peak years ago and will most likely never reach it again. :sad:

Your knack for stating the obvious rivals goldenlox's. Congrats.

+/-
Sep 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Iveta Benesova

Chrissie-fan
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:25 PM
All three of them are capable of beating the other two on the day, but at their peak I would say on clay peak Justine is best, on grass Venus and on hardcourt Serena. This is a diplomatic answer I know, but I think it's closer to the truth than saying that the peak version of any one of them would beat the peak versions of the other two one any surface.

Rexman
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:53 PM
I might actually agree with those who say Mary Pierce,even though I dislike her.

She has such sweet timing and can nail winners out of nowhere.

Mr. Magassi
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Jennifer of course... power, movement, accuracy ;)

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Your knack for stating the obvious rivals goldenlox's. Congrats.

I understand that as an insult.

jellybelly
Sep 12th, 2007, 06:42 PM
We're all tiptoeing around the obvious. Who's the best?
Serena of course.

Serena knows it. Richard knows it. The rest of the WTA knows it. Even most of the ATP probably knows it. It's a fact.

Henin is equivalent to a Sabatine of this generation, talent wise. Variety, one hand backhand, clay-court specialist, mannish demeanor. And we already know that Serena is better than Graf and Graf was sooooooo much better than Saba already. So there should be no debate. If Venus and Serena were not injured more, she would have won the same number of slams as Saba and been thankful. Unfortunately, the two best players of this generation were very unlucky.

Zaragojuju
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:22 PM
mannish demeanor.

?????????

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:26 PM
We're all tiptoeing around the obvious. Who's the best?
Serena of course.

Serena knows it. Richard knows it. The rest of the WTA knows it. Even most of the ATP probably knows it. It's a fact.

Henin is equivalent to a Sabatine of this generation, talent wise. Variety, one hand backhand, clay-court specialist, mannish demeanor. And we already know that Serena is better than Graf and Graf was sooooooo much better than Saba already. So there should be no debate. If Venus and Serena were not injured more, she would have won the same number of slams as Saba and been thankful. Unfortunately, the two best players of this generation were very unlucky.

:lol:

goldenlox
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:29 PM
Justine is #1, POY, and 4-0 vs the Williams at the majors.
So this year, there is a clear best player on the tour.

roger_maria4ever
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:30 PM
sharapova

Ferosh
Sep 12th, 2007, 08:41 PM
Justine without a single doubt

Exactly!

Rollo
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:17 PM
And we already know that Serena is better than Graf and Graf was sooooooo much better than Saba already. So there should be no debate.


Trash talk is just that if you can't back it up with results
If Serena was SO much better how come she was only 1-1 vs. Graf?

Forget "better than Graf"-Serena is barely best of her generation right now.

Serena's 1 slam better than Henin and two better than Venus.

Those are the facts-deal with them.

DA FOREHAND
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:27 PM
As a Venus fan I have to say Venus, but I voted for Serena.

I have never seen a female player play at the level she once achieved.

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:34 PM
Trash talk is just that if you can't back it up with results
If Serena was SO much better how come she was only 1-1 vs. Graf?

Forget "better than Graf"-Serena is barely best of her generation right now.

Serena's 1 slam better than Henin and two better than Venus.

Those are the facts-deal with them.

Definitions of better on the Web:
superior to another (of the same class or set or kind) in excellence or quality or desirability or suitability; more highly skilled than another; "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din"; "a better coat"; "a better type of car"; "a suit with a better fit"; "a better chance of success"; "produced a better mousetrap"; "she's better in math than in history"


If we were arguing most accomplished player, then of course it would be Graf. But we aren't are we?

We're arguing who's BETTER- at tennis. Not at winning grand slams, even though the two often go hand in hand.

Nice straw man, though.

Nicolás89
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:45 PM
graf didnt have to compete with the likes that serena had so the preparation was completely different, however i think graf would beat or will lose very close to serena if they were playing at their best, and again i think she would be number on this era, playing at her very best. ;)

justine&coria
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:53 PM
Serena knows it. Richard knows it. The rest of the WTA knows it. Even most of the ATP probably knows it. It's a fact.
Come on, either you're sarcastic or delusional.

But I have to agree with many Serena fans : Serena at her best could destroy an opponent like no one ever did, not even Justine. Does that mean she's the best ever ? I don't think so.
Ivanovic can ace, have impressive winners and seem unbeatable against top 20 players. But against the Williamses or Justine, it's not that easy.
I truly believe the same goes for Serena.

Why didn't Serena play her best against Justine in their last matches ? Not because she was injured, but because, to many people, she didn't have 10 aces, more than 50 winners, and less than 20 UEs. But with these stats, she'd destroy Federer too.
So as long as she doesn't have these stats, she's not playing her best. Quite an easy excuse, isn't it ?

In Justine's last matches, Justine showed she could return the Williamses' big serves, she showed she isn't bothered by their power etc.
So, I truly believe that Justine could beat anyone as long as she plays her A game and that Serena/Venus even at their best would have problems against Justine.

But Justine is not perfect, and someday she'll lose to the Williamses. I can already imagine some of the Wx2 fans saying that even when playing 70%, they beat (an 100% of course) Justine. Justine beat them 4 times recently, but one loss will be enough for them. :tape:

rottweily
Sep 12th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Stop http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8117/bitchloopeh7.gifing about peaks, it doesn't make any sense.

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:01 PM
Come on, either you're sarcastic or delusional.

But I have to agree with many Serena fans : Serena at her best could destroy an opponent like no one ever did, not even Justine. Does that mean she's the best ever ? I don't think so.
Ivanovic can ace, have impressive winners and seem unbeatable against top 20 players. But against the Williamses or Justine, it's not that easy.
I truly believe the same goes for Serena.

Why didn't Serena play her best against Justine in their last matches ? Not because she was injured, but because, to many people, she didn't have 10 aces, more than 50 winners, and less than 20 UEs. But with these stats, she'd destroy Federer too.
So as long as she doesn't have these stats, she's not playing her best. Quite an easy excuse, isn't it ?

In Justine's last matches, Justine showed she could return the Williamses' big serves, she showed she isn't bothered by their power etc.
So, I truly believe that Justine could beat anyone as long as she plays her A game and that Serena/Venus even at their best would have problems against Justine.

But Justine is not perfect, and someday she'll lose to the Williamses. I can already imagine some of the Wx2 fans saying that even when playing 70%, they beat (an 100% of course) Justine. Justine beat them 4 times recently, but one loss will be enough for them. :tape:

I think the main reason Serena lost at the USO was her speed, and her fitness. Serena, at her peak, is faster than Justine. She also has greater stamina. Serena was visibly tired i nthe second set. That simply didn't happen to Serena four years ago.

Justine not only had better footwork than Serena (which she always does), but she was outrunning her, too- which, again, wouldn't have happened to the Serena of 2002-03.

The one point where she displayed anything close to he rformer form was that long rally in the tiebreak- and after that, she seemed spent. An in form Serena would have won lots more of those points, and been ready for more.

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:01 PM
Stop http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8117/bitchloopeh7.gifing about peaks, it doesn't make any sense.

Why doesn't it make any sense?

Slutiana
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:05 PM
Venus.

AcesHigh
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:09 PM
These threads are ridiculous.... :shrug:
...but I would say Serena. Anyone who would disagree should just watch some tapes from 2002

Apoleb
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:17 PM
:rolls: @ this thread.

It has gone totally against supergrunt's expectations.

Rollo
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:21 PM
Definitions of better on the Web:
superior to another (of the same class or set or kind) in excellence or quality or desirability or suitability; more highly skilled than another; "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din"; "a better coat"; "a better type of car"; "a suit with a better fit"; "a better chance of success"; "produced a better mousetrap"; "she's better in math than in history"


If we were arguing most accomplished player, then of course it would be Graf. But we aren't are we?

We're arguing who's BETTER- at tennis. Not at winning grand slams, even though the two often go hand in hand.

Nice straw man, though.

Thanks for the definition. Now, where's your proof that Serena is "better"-or more skilled at a peak or on any level, than Steffi Graf (I'll leave Gunga Din out of it);)

Accomplishments, head to heads and slams are measurable.

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:22 PM
:rolls: @ this thread.

It has gone totally against supergrunt's expectations.

Supergrunt intentionally made this thread, knowing exactly how most people would vote.

Same with changing the name of the thread to single out "ju" fans- he's intentionally flamebaiting.

He/she isn't an idiot, as much as people here like to claim.

supergrunt
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:23 PM
:rolls: @ this thread.

It has gone totally against supergrunt's expectations.

Not really. I had a feeling people would say Henin.They were saying that after Miami this year.Then again, I guess threads like this are stupid because Henin fans are going to saa Henin.Vee fns are going to say Vee.Same for Ree fans.Same for Maria fans. Same for Monica fans etc, etc. If somebody truly had no preference for say ANY OF THE PLAYERS LISTED then they could pick the best I guess. But that isn't possible becasue everybody hates one of them! Oh well, arguing is funner :D !

Donny
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Thanks for the definition. Now, where's your proof that Serena is "better"-or more skilled at a peak or on any level, than Steffi Graf (I'll leave Gunga Din out of it);)

Surely Serena wasn't at her "peak' in 1999-but then neither was Steffi.

My proof is what I've seen of both Graf's and Serena's matches. No player in history has combined the amount of speed, skill, and power off of both wings that Serena at her peak did.

jellybelly
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the definition. Now, where's your proof that Serena is "better"-or more skilled at a peak or on any level, than Steffi Graf (I'll leave Gunga Din out of it);)

Surely Serena wasn't at her "peak' in 1999-but then neither was Steffi.

Proof is easier than it seems. Take Graf circa 88, take Serena circa 02.
Serve -> Serena
Forehand -> Serena. Graf 88 was never playing against an opposition that hit so hard or moved so well as Serena was.
Backhand -> Serena, more power, more accuracy, more versatility
Volleys -> Neither volleyed too much but Serena's passing shots and approaches in 02 made volleying essentially pointless.
Movement -> Graf was fast but Serena is a sprinter. Serena by a nose.
Mental -> Serena. Graf choked some leads even at her best like at Aussy final in 88.
Graf only comes close on movement.

It's simple really.

homogenius
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:04 PM
:lol:

Strange that you find these type of remarks funny.

homogenius
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:08 PM
We're all tiptoeing around the obvious. Who's the best?
Serena of course.

Serena knows it. Richard knows it. The rest of the WTA knows it. Even most of the ATP probably knows it. It's a fact.

Henin is equivalent to a Sabatine of this generation, talent wise. Variety, one hand backhand, clay-court specialist, mannish demeanor. And we already know that Serena is better than Graf and Graf was sooooooo much better than Saba already. So there should be no debate. If Venus and Serena were not injured more, she would have won the same number of slams as Saba and been thankful. Unfortunately, the two best players of this generation were very unlucky.

Your avatar shows a Serena very gracious and feminine.Congratulations.

Vamos.
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:19 PM
No doubt Serena, on her day. She would hit a winner every shot:shrug:..that is impossible to beat.

However, this thread, given recent events, was always going to be a disaster; it is the perfect place for people to hate on Serena; Justine was always going to be voted top.

A year ago, Serena would've won this poll. Fast forward a year and she might well be winning this poll again.