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View Full Version : Is the seeming disrespect for Justine due to a lack of American future prospects?


HippityHop
Sep 9th, 2007, 07:46 PM
As I wrote elsewhere in a thread that was "moved", Justine is clearly the best women's player in the world right now.

She takes tennis very seriously and probably (I'm guessing here) has no life outside of tennis.

Even though she does all of the things that the pundits :rolleyes: say that the Williams Sisters should be doing i.e. eating, drinking, and sleeping tennis, her accomplishments are still questioned.

Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.

HELLO????? Justine has been ranked number one for how many weeks?

And it seems that instead of celebrating the fact that Justine, who is a tennis machine a la Martina Navratilova, has won two majors in 2007, the big news is that she beat Serena everywhere except Miami and that she beat both Serena and Venus in this tournament.

Indeed there is so much made about her beating Serena and Venus in the same tournament that commentators make that seem more important than her winning the championship.

Is this because no matter what anyone accomplishes, the standard by which they will be forever judged is Venus and Serena?
Even despite Justine's accomplishments, I get the feeling that many people (not including the Williams and Henin fanbases) in the sport still believe that she's not the real deal. Kind of like Hingis was considered a bogus number one for a long time.

Almost every article mentions the Williams sisters who play very little yet are still able to step into the top ten and grab a major here and there with little or no preparation.

But it does show that no matter what the Willies do or don't do, they are still driving the story of women's tennis.
Frankly, I consider that disrepectful to Justine after all she's accomplished. :(

Again, maybe it's because everybody knows that after Vee and Rena leave that American women's tennis has practically no chance of a champion in the foreseeable future.
But it wasn't that long ago that they were considered bad for tennis.

Well, get over it. There was not an American in the US Open final this year. But hey, there was no Brit in the Wimby final, no Frenchwoman in the RG final and no Aussie in the AO final.

What the problem is? :confused:

franklinbouvier
Sep 9th, 2007, 07:53 PM
I think it's more a matter of unfortunate timing rather than thinly veiled xenophobia.
When the sisters burst onto the scene it was big news for a number of reasons.
Phenomenal talent, black, relatively impoverished background etc then they went and backed it up by winning loads of slams and kept their profiles up by courting the press.
People (not just tennis fans) are starting to take notice of Justine and she's achieved that through tennis alone.
It has taken a while and she's obv not a household name quite yet but that is arguably because she's yet to win Wimbledon.
I don't think anyone out there would even begin to try to take away from what she's achieved.

treufreund
Sep 9th, 2007, 08:08 PM
As I wrote elsewhere in a thread that was "moved", Justine is clearly the best women's player in the world right now.

She takes tennis very seriously and probably (I'm guessing here) has no life outside of tennis.

Even though she does all of the things that the pundits :rolleyes: say that the Williams Sisters should be doing i.e. eating, drinking, and sleeping tennis, her accomplishments are still questioned.

Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.

HELLO????? Justine has been ranked number one for how many weeks?

And it seems that instead of celebrating the fact that Justine, who is a tennis machine a la Martina Navratilova, has won two majors in 2007, the big news is that she beat Serena everywhere except Miami and that she beat both Serena and Venus in this tournament.

Indeed there is so much made about her beating Serena and Venus in the same tournament that commentators make that seem more important than her winning the championship.

Is this because no matter what anyone accomplishes, the standard by which they will be forever judged is Venus and Serena?
Even despite Justine's accomplishments, I get the feeling that many people (not including the Williams and Henin fanbases) in the sport still believe that she's not the real deal. Kind of like Hingis was considered a bogus number one for a long time.

Almost every article mentions the Williams sisters who play very little yet are still able to step into the top ten and grab a major here and there with little or no preparation.

But it does show that no matter what the Willies do or don't do, they are still driving the story of women's tennis.
Frankly, I consider that disrepectful to Justine after all she's accomplished. :(

Again, maybe it's because everybody knows that after Vee and Rena leave that American women's tennis has practically no chance of a champion in the foreseeable future.
But it wasn't that long ago that they were considered bad for tennis.

Well, get over it. There was not an American in the US Open final this year. But hey, there was no Brit in the Wimby final, no Frenchwoman in the RG final and no Aussie in the AO final.

What the problem is? :confused:

I think that most of what you wrote is true, however, we must recognize that more and more people are becoming Justine fans and that she is finally getting some recognition after numerous weeks at #1, an Olympic Gold medal, 7 Slams(the last two without dropping a set) and a YEC championship. She has won 7/11 events entered and is by far the #1 in the ranking WITHOUT 1 single point from the Aussie Open which she missed due to a divorce. It's hard for people to keep ignoring her talent, her accomplishments and her blossoming as a player and a person.

sportywoman
Sep 9th, 2007, 08:16 PM
I am a Justine fan but it is normal that she is compared to Serena or Venus to a lesser extent because she is the dominating force one coming after the williamses dominating era, just like the williamses were coming after Hingis, ect. So each time she beats them she add to the perception that she is ending the dominating williams period and is grounded firmly in her own.

You always measure the validity of your number one spot by challenging the previous one(s) who are still active. When Justine will clearly outnumbered Serena in terms of slams, if she adds the Wimbledon one, and keeps on beating her consitantly she will be the one PERCEIVED as the UNDOUBTEDLY number on dominant force who will be the reference to be beaten. Then her achievments would weight much more in that prospect cause she will be the one active player with the better CV and whose active players would want measure up to.

HippityHop
Sep 9th, 2007, 08:53 PM
I am a Justine fan but it is normal that she is compared to Serena or Venus to a lesser extent because she is the dominating force one coming after the williamses dominating era, just like the williamses were coming after Hingis, ect. So each time she beats them she add to the perception that she is ending the dominating williams period and is grounded firmly in her own.

You always measure the validity of your number one spot by challenging the previous one(s) who are still active. When Justine will clearly outnumbered Serena in terms of slams, if she adds the Wimbledon one, and keeps on beating her consitantly she will be the one PERCEIVED as the UNDOUBTEDLY number on dominant force who will be the reference to be beaten. Then her achievments would weight much more in that prospect cause she will be the one active player with the better CV and whose active players would want measure up to.

Interesting points. But as someone said elsewhere, Venus and/or Serena have not dominated since 2003. That's four years ago. And as I said, Venus and Serena are de facto part timers for several reasons. I'd think that the Russians would be the ones who she should be measured against.

But then again maybe it does say something about the talent of the WTA that Venus and Serena, who rarely play, are the yardstick by which all others are measured. :)

-Ph51-
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:11 PM
I don't think that the standard in Europe is the same as in the US.
Over here the sisters are not that important, and, at the French, Henin was never compared to them.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:16 PM
Interesting points. But as someone said elsewhere, Venus and/or Serena have not dominated since 2003. That's four years ago. And as I said, Venus and Serena are de facto part timers for several reasons. I'd think that the Russians would be the ones who she should be measured against.

But then again maybe it does say something about the talent of the WTA that Venus and Serena, who rarely play, are the yardstick by which all others are measured. :)

:worship: Beautiful post...

GoDominique
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Many people and Williams fans still believe that Justine is not able to beat the Williamses when they are "at their best".
For them it is just not comprehensible how a girl that small could be competitive with Venus and Serena. It can't be happening.
That's why they constantly need to be proven wrong by Justine beating them.

And even now it has happened again, they still won't accept it.

Monica_Rules
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:20 PM
I think now we know, at this moment in time Justine is the undesputed world #1. She has been the most consistent performer for the past couple of years and now shes going above that.

I'm not a huge fan of Justine but i can see shes a cracking tennis player, one of the most talented players ever.

jellybelly
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:22 PM
Honestly the WIlliamses are a phenomenon. There is no other word for it. Nothing like them has ever hit tennis before and nothing like that ever will hit tennis again. People should be more gracious towards them because it will be patently clear how much the sport needed them when they retire. People now who are reveling in their defeat by lesser players today will regret this in the future. Honestly everyone knows deep inside that they are the best, but they hope against hope that it is not true. That is why they make so much noise when a Williams reminds them of that fact, they are yelling to try and muffle their own deep instinct that the Williams are right.

-Ph51-
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:33 PM
Honestly the WIlliamses are a phenomenon. There is no other word for it. Nothing like them has ever hit tennis before and nothing like that ever will hit tennis again. People should be more gracious towards them because it will be patently clear how much the sport needed them when they retire. People now who are reveling in their defeat by lesser players today will regret this in the future. Honestly everyone knows deep inside that they are the best, but they hope against hope that it is not true. That is why they make so much noise when a Williams reminds them of that fact, they are yelling to try and muffle their own deep instinct that the Williams are right.

Like i said before...in the US. :angel:

Apoorv
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:35 PM
I dont think williamses retiring will be a huge loss. they play 5 or 6 tournaments per year. only impact will be in USO where they fetch a lot of money. People have short memory, there are legends in every era and williams sisters have their respectable place in history but saying williamses are best of all or most important of all is delusion.

HippityHop
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Many people and Williams fans still believe that Justine is not able to beat the Williamses when they are "at their best".
For them it is just not comprehensible how a girl that small could be competitive with Venus and Serena. It can't be happening.
That's why they constantly need to be proven wrong by Justine beating them.

And even now it has happened again, they still won't accept it.

But Justine is smaller than a lot of girls (women) in the WTA. So is it really just a matter of size?

On another note, I think that Venus and Serena transcend tennis in a way that no other tennis player has or will. Perhaps Agassi comes close. But certainly not Sampras, Evert, Navratilova, or a whole host of others including Justine.

Jasmin
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM
If Henin was attractive or American she would be praised. Let's be real...she's boyish looking, kind of of unattractive she's never garner as much attention as Anna or Maria. I think it's shallow but in this case because of Henin's past I don't care.
If Ana wins a one slam she will be more popular like Maria in America because she's beautiful (imo more beautiful than Maria). However I like certain players because of skill if there's no cheating involve...looks be d*mn.

Other than being a sex symbol they have be American and successful like the Williams sisters. Like Andy who's popular for no other reason but he's American. Heck even Blake who's never won a slam seems more popular.

SunriseSunset
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:49 PM
I don't think it's about lack of future American players, just how good everyone thinks Serena and Venus are. They say they're crap/ not dedicated, yet still expect them to win everything and hold them up as the epitome for everyone else. I think it happens everywhere e.g. in the music world, ALL singers get compared to Beyonce no matter what they do. It seems to just be the way it is.

You're right that before they were "bad for tennis", but that's how hypocritical people can be. They love you one minute then hate you the next and go round in circles.

Serena and Venus get disrespected too. Their country is not behind them totally and only turned to the sisters when their other hopes had faded and they would prefer a Sharapova lookalike.

If Henin continues, then one day she may be used as a benchmark too.

Jasmin
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:00 PM
I doubt it. Henin doesn't look like Maria or Anna so she will never be a benchmark. Lets face it....she's won 6 before yesterday but no one here really cares. She's not a money maker like Serena, Venus and Maria for companies in America. She's never in the top 10 like those 3 and as long as those 3 are tops in advertising then Henin won't be picked.

Even Federer who I actually like a lot isn't a money maker here for some reason and he has 11 slam titles. He's never in the top 10 when it comes to advertising...sad

Donatello
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:18 PM
In Europe Henin is considered the best woman tennis player by far. Weither she beats both WS in the same tourny or not.

So, the seeming disrespect has to do with American media me thinks :shrug: .

sharapovarulz1
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Nope Justine isn't big at all in the UK neither cant see why not (wink, wink) lol

Donatello
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:23 PM
Nope Justine isn't big at all in the UK neither cant see why not (wink, wink) lol

since when is the UK part of Europe? wink

SunriseSunset
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:31 PM
since when is the UK part of Europe? wink

Of course it is.:) I live in the UK and don't think of us as being part of it, but we are. They say it ALL the time on the news e.g. "We have the highest rate of teen pregnancies in Europe."

Sorry if you were being sarcastic.:)

Donatello
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:41 PM
I'm just talking about what I get from my media sources (TV, papers). The tennis scene, when I talk to people etc. People seem to be much more fond of Justine, when on the subject of womens tennis as opposed to the WS.

sharapovarulz1
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:47 PM
I'm just talking about what I get from my media sources (TV, papers). The tennis scene, when I talk to people etc. People seem to be much more fond of Justine, when on the subject of womens tennis as opposed to the WS.

The UK are more William sisters or Maria Sharapova than Justine Henin!

Marshmallow
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:47 PM
Many people and Williams fans still believe that Justine is not able to beat the Williamses when they are "at their best".
For them it is just not comprehensible how a girl that small could be competitive with Venus and Serena. It can't be happening.
That's why they constantly need to be proven wrong by Justine beating them.

And even now it has happened again, they still won't accept it.

but how is anyone to know is Justine can beat Serena at her best? Do you think Serena is at her best?

Justine is the best player currently. I thought that was solidified by the way the US Open crowd seemed to be in awe of her, especially at the beginning of the match. She seems to have amazed everyone, even though most of us knew she was th best player this year at least.

That said, the WS are still a big force, and at the height of their powers they quite clearly transcended tennis. Ask yourselves, just why is the williams double such an amazing fete? Venus beat the 2 best serbians and that didn't really get a worthy mention.

But it's concerning how i get the feeling that some people are only just now starting to realise WHO justine is and how good she is, when most of us have known for a while. But i imagine the buzz would be out of control if someone like Maria did the williams double.

Justine does get enough respect and i hope that this tournament changes that - with repsect to the bigger picture of the WTA. She should be the WTA'S poster girl, and not that other cow.

Expat
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:48 PM
I'm just talking about what I get from my media sources (TV, papers). The tennis scene, when I talk to people etc. People seem to be much more fond of Justine, when on the subject of womens tennis as opposed to the WS.assuming that u r french and read french papers thats not surprising
i can never forget the match when they cheered every fault of serena during the FO 03

Donatello
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:53 PM
The UK are more William sisters or Maria Sharapova than Justine Henin!

This just amplifies what I said about the gap between our countries.

off-topic : Liverpool is my fav team in the premiership :cool:

sharapovarulz1
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:55 PM
This just amplifies what I said about the gap between our countries.

off-topic : Liverpool is my fav team in the premiership :cool:

You got a point!

off-topic-Liverpool are the shit :worship: glad to see some supporters on WTAWorld :D

Apoleb
Sep 9th, 2007, 10:59 PM
I don't think there was disrepect, and it's not only the US media who thought that Justine still had something to prove. In fact, she also thought that she still had a lot to prove before the tournament and it was the biggest motivation for her play.

While a lot of us knew that Justine is among the very best on fast surfaces, we still needed evidence on paper that she can compete with the very best on fast surfaces (i.e Serena and Venus) and nevertheless beat them, and Justine had the perfect chance in this tournament to show it. And she did. She came in with a 1-7 record against Venus and no wins over Serena on hard courts; her only win over her on fast courts being marred by an injury.

So basically, I don't believe there was anything odd about the expectations people had for Justine. Rankings mean shit. And this tournament was so important because it finally solidified Justine's position on top of the women's game, by overcoming the Williams sisters on a fast surface, for pretty much the first time. Add to that ofcourse the level of tennis she showed in both matches, and the fact that it was back to back in straight sets.

Shvedbarilescu
Sep 9th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Justine will never beat Serena Williams at her best for the simple reason that Serena Williams at 26, and getting older and with bad knees and an unwillingness to look at much less tackle her fitness, will never again be at her best.

homogenius
Sep 9th, 2007, 11:41 PM
I doubt it. Henin doesn't look like Maria or Anna so she will never be a benchmark. Lets face it....she's won 6 before yesterday but no one here really cares. She's not a money maker like Serena, Venus and Maria for companies in America. She's never in the top 10 like those 3 and as long as those 3 are tops in advertising then Henin won't be picked.

Even Federer who I actually like a lot isn't a money maker here for some reason and he has 11 slam titles. He's never in the top 10 when it comes to advertising...sad

Maybe no one really cares about the slams of Henin before yesterday, IN AMERICA.In Europe people seems to judge tennis players on their tennis abilities and results, not on "who is the best money maker", and it's why Henin is considered the best player in the world since a long time, in a lot of countries outside of the US.
Not everything in the world is about America and values like money.

HippityHop
Sep 9th, 2007, 11:58 PM
Justine will never beat Serena Williams at her best for the simple reason that Serena Williams at 26, and getting older and with bad knees and an unwillingness to look at much less tackle her fitness, will never again be at her best.


Sad to say, this is probably true.

shap_half
Sep 10th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.



These are American commentators. Unfortunately, nothing that come out of their mouths mean anything.
Patrick McEnroe is so nationalistic, I think he lives with his head permanently placed in every American male tennis player's rear end. If you're trying to gain perspective on tennis, don't just get your information from one country's television personalities. What else are they supposed to do but talk up their players?

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 12:24 AM
These are American commentators. Unfortunately, nothing that come out of their mouths mean anything.
Patrick McEnroe is so nationalistic, I think he lives with his head permanently placed in every American male tennis player's rear end. If you're trying to gain perspective on tennis, don't just get your information from one country's television personalities. What else are they supposed to do but talk up their players?

If you're going to be honest, quote my entire post and highlight what you are responding to. To take something out of context in a post is dishonest because it leaves the wrong impression if one has not read the original.

shap_half
Sep 10th, 2007, 12:33 AM
If you're going to be honest, quote my entire post and highlight what you are responding to. To take something out of context in a post is dishonest because it leaves the wrong impression if one has not read the original.

I'm quoting what my response is relevant to. You're bringing up American commentators to start the conversation, my post is directly responding to that and that alone. I don't see what's dishonest about that. And how is it out of context when I'm "quoting" exactly what you said?
Did you bring up any other commentators in addition to Carillo and P McEnroe? No, you didn't so it seems like my response is totally appropriate. I don't really understand how that's dishonest or "out of context."

Point is: You brought up 2 American commentators no one else. I responded by saying basing your argument on some BS coming out of two television personalities from one country can hardly apply to the entire world of tennis.

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:30 AM
I'm quoting what my response is relevant to. You're bringing up American commentators to start the conversation, my post is directly responding to that and that alone. I don't see what's dishonest about that. And how is it out of context when I'm "quoting" exactly what you said?
Did you bring up any other commentators in addition to Carillo and P McEnroe? No, you didn't so it seems like my response is totally appropriate. I don't really understand how that's dishonest or "out of context."

Point is: You brought up 2 American commentators no one else. I responded by saying basing your argument on some BS coming out of two television personalities from one country can hardly apply to the entire world of tennis.


Go back and read the sentence that I wrote after the one about McEnroe and you'll see what I'm talking about.

tard~tard
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:42 AM
To answer the original question in this thread, I have
the impression that the disrespect towards Justine Henin
is merely an Anglo-American problem, which I have become
accostumed to over the years, and probably so has Justine.
Still it's very unfair, and the media is most to blame.
I have never in my life read so much misinformation and lies
about Justine Henin, as I have read in the Anglo-American
press.
The sad thing about this is, that people take that information
for granted, as I can witness on this board day after day.
In the beginning, I couldn't believe my eyes, but after a while
you just take it as it comes, and try to ignore most of it.

Justine is highly respected in Europe and her popularity is
growing fast in Asia, so what the biased media of the US thinks
of her, shouldn't matter in the long run. I saw with my own
eyes how much the (American) crowd was in awe with her tennis
at this years USO, even gasping for breath at some of the
incredible shots she made, and I'm pretty sure Justine noticed
that too.

Another misunderstanding I would like to clear up, about
the Williams' sisters only playing part-time. Yes they do,
but it's not as if Justine Henin has entered that many more
tournaments herself this year. The only difference is, that
Justine's results so far have been way better than those of
Venus and Serena.

In 2007, so far, Serena has played 8 tournaments, Venus 10,
and Justine 11. Still Justine is more than 2000 points ahead
of them in the YEC rankings.

Forehand_Volley
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:07 AM
If Henin was attractive or American she would be praised. Let's be real...she's boyish looking, kind of of unattractive she's never garner as much attention as Anna or Maria.
http://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/fan/D20060621/2506_654624580_justine_henin_wedding_v_H184550_L.j pg
Henin cleans up well.

shap_half
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:09 AM
Go back and read the sentence that I wrote after the one about McEnroe and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I don't see how that sentence shows my "taking things out of context" or "dishonesty." But whatevs. Deal with it all you want.

stickwitju(ju)
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:14 AM
Is this really an anti-Justine thread in (poor) disguise?

:rocker:

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:23 AM
To answer the original question in this thread, I have
the impression that the disrespect towards Justine Henin
is merely an Anglo-American problem, which I have become
accostumed to over the years, and probably so has Justine.
Still it's very unfair, and the media is most to blame.
I have never in my life read so much misinformation and lies
about Justine Henin, as I have read in the Anglo-American
press.
The sad thing about this is, that people take that information
for granted, as I can witness on this board day after day.
In the beginning, I couldn't believe my eyes, but after a while
you just take it as it comes, and try to ignore most of it.

Justine is highly respected in Europe and her popularity is
growing fast in Asia, so what the biased media of the US thinks
of her, shouldn't matter in the long run. I saw with my own
eyes how much the (American) crowd was in awe with her tennis
at this years USO, even gasping for breath at some of the
incredible shots she made, and I'm pretty sure Justine noticed
that too.

Another misunderstanding I would like to clear up, about
the Williams' sisters only playing part-time. Yes they do,
but it's not as if Justine Henin has entered that many more
tournaments herself this year. The only difference is, that
Justine's results so far have been way better than those of
Venus and Serena.

In 2007, so far, Serena has played 8 tournaments, Venus 10,
and Justine 11. Still Justine is more than 2000 points ahead
of them in the YEC rankings.

If you use 2007 as the benchmark you are correct. However if you use the past four years which is when they last "dominated", you get my point.

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:24 AM
I don't see how that sentence shows my "taking things out of context" or "dishonesty." But whatevs. Deal with it all you want.

You don't get it so forget about it.

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:26 AM
Is this really an anti-Justine thread in (poor) disguise?

:rocker:

No. :rocker2:

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:28 AM
If you use 2007 as the benchmark you are correct. However if you use the past four years which is when they last "dominated", you get my point.

During the last 4 years, Venus has played more tournaments than Henin. There is even a Wtaworld thread about it.

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Here-s the link to the thread.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=316516

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:31 AM
During the last 4 years, Venus has played more tournaments than Henin. There is even a Wtaworld thread about it.

But neither Venus nor Serena have been dominating since what 2003 or so? That's why I'm trying to find out why they are the bar that Justine has to live up to in the minds of some.

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:39 AM
But neither Venus nor Serena have been dominating since what 2003 or so? That's why I'm trying to find out why they are the bar that Justine has to live up to in the minds of some.

Well, apart from Justine, they are the best active players with 8 (Serena) and 6 (Venus) Slams. Even if not dominating, since 2004, Venus has won 2 Slams and Serena two as well, only Justine has won more and only Mauresmo and Sharapova have equalled them.

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Well, apart from Justine, they are the best active players with 8 (Serena) and 6 (Venus) Slams. Even if not dominating, since 2004, Venus has won 2 Slams and Serena two as well, only Justine has won more and only Mauresmo and Sharapova have equalled them.

True. But what about the Serbs? What about Chavetadze? I know that they haven't won slams yet but they are higher ranked players.

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:23 AM
True. But what about the Serbs? What about Chavetadze? I know that they haven't won slams yet but they are higher ranked players.

They are only recently the higher ranked players, just 2007. Plus, they have not won any slams, despite having the opportunity to do so. They have not proved they have a winning mentality and they have not proved they are able to rise to the occasion, that is, they have not proved they are big match players, real, top of the class contenders. The Williams sisters, kudos to them, have proved it, time and time again, and especially on faster surfaces.

VivalaSeles
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:30 AM
Add to that - neither Serb has beaten Justine ... EVER. Plus, Juju is known by some as the Russian slayer, so ...

JakenPhx
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:52 AM
As I wrote elsewhere in a thread that was "moved", Justine is clearly the best women's player in the world right now.

She takes tennis very seriously and probably (I'm guessing here) has no life outside of tennis.

Even though she does all of the things that the pundits :rolleyes: say that the Williams Sisters should be doing i.e. eating, drinking, and sleeping tennis, her accomplishments are still questioned.

Mary Carillo said that whoever won the Juju/Vee semi would have to be considered the number one player in the world.
Patrick McEnroe said that if she won the US Open that she would have to be considered the number one in the world.

HELLO????? Justine has been ranked number one for how many weeks?

And it seems that instead of celebrating the fact that Justine, who is a tennis machine a la Martina Navratilova, has won two majors in 2007, the big news is that she beat Serena everywhere except Miami and that she beat both Serena and Venus in this tournament.

Indeed there is so much made about her beating Serena and Venus in the same tournament that commentators make that seem more important than her winning the championship.

Is this because no matter what anyone accomplishes, the standard by which they will be forever judged is Venus and Serena?
Even despite Justine's accomplishments, I get the feeling that many people (not including the Williams and Henin fanbases) in the sport still believe that she's not the real deal. Kind of like Hingis was considered a bogus number one for a long time.

Almost every article mentions the Williams sisters who play very little yet are still able to step into the top ten and grab a major here and there with little or no preparation.

But it does show that no matter what the Willies do or don't do, they are still driving the story of women's tennis.
Frankly, I consider that disrepectful to Justine after all she's accomplished. :(

Again, maybe it's because everybody knows that after Vee and Rena leave that American women's tennis has practically no chance of a champion in the foreseeable future.
But it wasn't that long ago that they were considered bad for tennis.

Well, get over it. There was not an American in the US Open final this year. But hey, there was no Brit in the Wimby final, no Frenchwoman in the RG final and no Aussie in the AO final.

What the problem is? :confused:
Man, finally someone w/ an intelligent, broader than obvious opinion. The Williams "monster" machine, has been created by "THE WILLIAMS" themselves w/ their lack of respect or humility, only adding to the media and fan love or disdain for them. IMO, they are rude, classless, mean spirited, hugely talented athletes who don't have the work ethic to walk the walk. This is not the role models that kids need, so maybe they are disrespected. Truth is you have to earn respect and no matter how great an athlete you are, in the end it's how you treated others that matters.

bunch_01
Sep 10th, 2007, 05:02 AM
The number of active players you could use as a yardstick to judge Justine by is fairly limited. Probably next year the Serbs may get a notch on the stick but this year its still the Williams sisters, Mauresmo and Sharapova. If you like you can throw Clijsters and Davenport in as well but they aren't exactly active for 2007.

To figure on whether someone belongs on the yardstick you have to ask yourself when the draw comes out which matches do you think will be exciting and which ones will be a bloodbath...versus Henin that is. Any of those six above? Exciting... Serbs? exciting except they haven't proven themselves GS winners yet. Anybody else? Only question is the quantity of blood they'll be leaving behind on the court.

Donatello
Sep 10th, 2007, 06:05 AM
Man, finally someone w/ an intelligent, broader than obvious opinion. The Williams "monster" machine, has been created by "THE WILLIAMS" themselves w/ their lack of respect or humility, only adding to the media and fan love or disdain for them. IMO, they are rude, classless, mean spirited, hugely talented athletes who don't have the work ethic to walk the walk. This is not the role models that kids need, so maybe they are disrespected. Truth is you have to earn respect and no matter how great an athlete you are, in the end it's how you treated others that matters.

What a loooong boring ass way to say :

yada yada... I dislike both Williams sisters... yada yada

JakenPhx
Sep 10th, 2007, 06:50 AM
What a loooong boring ass way to say :

yada yada... I dislike both Williams sisters... yada yada
You seem really sharp and have great insight........Ever been published? Or maybe in prison...Yada, Yada, Yada.

ViennaCalling
Sep 10th, 2007, 06:55 AM
http://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/fan/D20060621/2506_654624580_justine_henin_wedding_v_H184550_L.j pg
Henin cleans up well.

:spit: That is attractive for you? :haha:

Poor Pierre-Yves-clone :awww:

iWill
Sep 10th, 2007, 07:25 AM
Man, finally someone w/ an intelligent, broader than obvious opinion. The Williams "monster" machine, has been created by "THE WILLIAMS" themselves w/ their lack of respect or humility, only adding to the media and fan love or disdain for them. IMO, they are rude, classless, mean spirited, hugely talented athletes who don't have the work ethic to walk the walk. This is not the role models that kids need, so maybe they are disrespected. Truth is you have to earn respect and no matter how great an athlete you are, in the end it's how you treated others that matters.

I don't understand why so many people decide to hate the WS because of pre-concieved ideas, granted thats your opinion I guess its just hard to see where you get that from and since when is 14 GS singles titles not talking the talk..........but thats a different story the last part of your post is um "random" I don't know where that came from but again to each his own

As for the original post there are some good points made but America will have another great women's champion it may not be in next 2-3 years but it will happen so we aren't that worried about that.

The thing about Vee and Reena is that they are superstars and we've all heard the phrase "no one is bigger than the sport itself" but NO ONE has been able to go so far outside of the tennis world as these two have so there may need to be some exceptions made in that case. When they retire I guarantee unless we have some other superstar talent come up like Maria ratings for tennis will go down and you can count on that.

Justine to me isn't disrespected. She gets plenty of recognition if I've ever seen it. Her accomplishments are acknowledged and well recieved but I think people still realize the potential of the WS even at 25 and 27 prolly on their exit of the tennis world and I think people still don't feel they've achieved all they can. Justine has stepped up her level so much its amazing but the question is if the WS "feel like it" will they raise that bar even higher which they are also capable of. So right now as a tennis fan I think its as exciting as it can be or that it will be for a long long time.

stickwitju(ju)
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:14 PM
No. :rocker2:

Yeah right. You mention Justine and then go on ad nauseum about Serena Jameka Williams and Venus Ebonee Star Williams.

:smash:

Petersmiler
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:22 PM
:spit: That is attractive for you? :haha:

Poor Pierre-Yves-clone :awww:

Can we see your picture now?

Doesn't matter, I found one of you and your brother.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/NutterButter2254/ugly-men.jpg

chloe-l
Sep 10th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Can we see your picture now?

Doesn't matter, I found one of you and your brother.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/NutterButter2254/ugly-men.jpg

:haha: :haha:

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 09:32 PM
Yeah right. You mention Justine and then go on ad nauseum about Serena Jameka Williams and Venus Ebonee Star Williams.

:smash:

Only someone who is paranoid and off their meds could miscontrue my original post as anti Justine. Oh well, do you. :rolleyes:

Donatello
Sep 10th, 2007, 11:23 PM
You seem really sharp and have great insight........Ever been published? Or maybe in prison...Yada, Yada, Yada.

stay on-topic, why in your right mind would you call a tennis player you don't even know 'mean-spirited' ? :confused:

we're talking about tennis players here ! c'mon, they're just being competitive.

and besides, they're great role models for people who went trough the same shit as them, doubters etc.

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ahsha Rolle (American future prospect) and Vania King (prospect) is a fan of the WS.

Jubilee
Sep 12th, 2007, 01:51 AM
Gee...I have seen nothing but the most superfluous praise for Justine in everything printed and spoken...

roarke
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:27 AM
I think that most of what you wrote is true, however, we must recognize that more and more people are becoming Justine fans and that she is finally getting some recognition after numerous weeks at #1, an Olympic Gold medal, 7 Slams(the last two without dropping a set) and a YEC championship. She has won 7/11 events entered and is by far the #1 in the ranking WITHOUT 1 single point from the Aussie Open which she missed due to a divorce. It's hard for people to keep ignoring her talent, her accomplishments and her blossoming as a player and a person.

I don't think anybody undermines Justine’s success at all. Here is the problem with why you are feeling like she is getting less recognition than Venus & Serena and even Maria. These girls are recognized for more than just Tennis. Justine only plays tennis and her exploits outside of tennis are not well known. She got divorced in January and that bit of news didn't even create a stir. Most of us even thou we mocked her hubby felt they we well suited. Also I believe most of you are watching the tennis telecast from American TV. Well.......you are watching American Television. American television WILL ALWAYS focus on AMERICAN PLAYERS unless a foreign player has enough sex appeal and beauty to supercede that little fact ala Kournikova & Sharapova. I am sure the commentary in Belgium is decidedly Justine friendly and Venus & Serena unfriendly. Almost all countries focus on their own athletes. Her game is fabulous but she lacks that "it quality" which makes for good TV ratings and advertising dollars. Plus Justine gives off an air of unfriendliness. She will undoubtedly be inducted in the hall of fame and in years to come she will be revered as one of the greats of the sport but currently she does not have the appeal of a Serena, Venus or a Maria. If she had she would be loaded with American endorsements and she would be on the TV so often that you couldn't help but hear about her “greatness” constantly. The WTA doesn't even use her in their promotional campaign much! To be more than a sports STAR and command that rarefied air you have to have more than a great game. Roger’s accomplishments are noticed because not only has a great game but with it he has flair and he is intricately tied with Tiger Woods. Plus he is super friendly.

We are aware of Bill Gates only because he has he has had the title of "richest man in the world". If not for that title with all his accomplishments with the computer revolution we wouldn’t even know what the looked like unless we were geeks too.