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View Full Version : Since 2004, Venus Williams has played more tournaments than Justine Henin :eek:


felipe2004
Sep 9th, 2007, 07:40 PM
I was quite surprised when I realized it. Venus has played 44 tournaments (16 + 12 + 6 + 10), and Justine 42 (9 + 9 + 13 + 11). :eek:

champGS1452
Sep 9th, 2007, 07:44 PM
Venus plays much more than she gets credit for. It's that she had some early round losses in the beginning of the year.

DownTheLine21
Sep 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Venus plays much more than she gets credit for. It's that she had some early round losses in the beginning of the year.

I agree. I'm tired of people ignorantly stating that Venus isn't dedicated. As the stats prove, she plays just as much as Henin (despite less than stellar results when compared with Henin).

Havok
Sep 9th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Justine doesn't need to play as much because everytime she shows up to an event, she's ready to play and most of the time wins it/has a very solid result. Venus, on the other hand, needs more events to shake off the rust and be in good form for the bigger events. Venus needs to play more, that is all. Just look at how many titles/Slams each has won since 2004 and you get your answer. PLus take a look at their rankings over the years.:o

Rtael
Sep 9th, 2007, 08:32 PM
How about comparing matches played?

mckyle.
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Serena's the one that doesn't play tournaments ;)

UDACHi
Sep 9th, 2007, 09:52 PM
venus has basically played a full (albeit small) schedule schedule for 2004, 2005, and 2007. last year was her only unusually short year.
justine has many more minor problems that hinder her. she usually only plays one us open warmup and hardly anything indoors. add the viral infection in 2004 and you have a very short schedule.

this stat isn't surprising at all, imo. ;)

Marshmallow
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:52 PM
What conclusions can we draw from this?

There are a number of extraneous factors that could/should be considered - perhaps like Rtael suggested.

But No doubt, Venus has been trying. She lost a lot of confidence during and after 2004, got herself back into good form in 2005 - but had health problems and couldn't build on it... and really has just gotten herslef back into good form/ confidence. However the Anemia issue is threaten to affect her rhythm again.

People clumping Venus and Serena together also doesn't help how people View Venus' commitment these past few years. She was getting thumped on the court but kept coming back, determined to find form. Those were tough times.

Polikarpov
Sep 10th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Wow, I've always thought that the Williams sisters play the least tournaments. I'm pleasantly surprised I have to say.

sportywoman
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Venus has always played a decent number of tournaments and has been over (by a slight edge) Justine's number for years. She is just less productive as she doesn't CONSISTENTLY go deep in tournaments she enters, hence she is less visible than Justine or Maria who also play less.

She needs to increase her efficiency and productive ratio by going deeper in any tournement she enters. Maybe the fact that she doesn't go far is the reason why she plays more tournaments.

stickwitju(ju)
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:13 PM
But No doubt, Venus has been trying. She lost a lot of confidence during and after 2004, got herself back into good form in 2005 - but had health problems and couldn't build on it... and really has just gotten herslef back into good form/ confidence. However the Anemia issue is threaten to affect her rhythm again.

People clumping Venus and Serena together also doesn't help how people View Venus' commitment these past few years. She was getting thumped on the court but kept coming back, determined to find form. Those were tough times.

What's up with the pity party for Venus Ebonee Star Williams? I think she is probably the most popular FEMALE player among fans and the tennis media. People may "hate" Serena and Richard but Venus commands the fans and the media's respect AND SHE GETS IT...ALL THE TIME. Just reading some posts, it's as if posters (not trolls) are very careful with their comments about Venus. To her credit, she's instilled fear in everyone, not just her opponents. :p I'm just NOT one of them because I'll rake Venus over the coals (constructively, of course) without batting an eye.

:nerner:

DragonFlame
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:31 PM
The difference since 2004-2007(untill now) is that:

Justine played 200 matches
Has a win-loss record of: 179-21
won 22 tournaments(including 5 grandslams, 1 YEC, gold medal Olympics)

venus played 168 matches
Has a win-loss record of: 132-36
won 6 tournaments(including 2 grandslams)

Venus played 32 matches less, she won 42 less matches, lost 15 more matches

Shepster
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:37 PM
The difference since 2004-2007(untill now) is that:

Justine played 200 matches
Has a win-loss record of: 179-21
won 22 tournaments(including 5 grandslams, 1 YEC, gold medal Olympics)

venus played 168 matches
Has a win-loss record of: 132-36
won 6 tournaments(including 2 grandslams)

Venus played 32 matches less, she won 42 less matches, lost 15 more matches
This is the thing, Justine has her schedule because she knows 9 times out of 10 she's going to make the semifinals at least. With Venus more often than not she *won't* make the semifinals of the average tournament she plays. Venus is a clever girl, she is very aware that when she plays week in, week out she gets tired and that is when her level drops. She has a light schedule to give her the best chance in every single tournament she plays. Henin does that too, but that's because she knows she doesn't have to do any more because she can be world #1 and win slams every year doing it. Venus has no other alternative as if she played more it would have a knock-on effect and hurt her other results.

Marshmallow
Sep 10th, 2007, 02:59 PM
What's up with the pity party for Venus Ebonee Star Williams? I think she is probably the most popular FEMALE player among fans and the tennis media. People may "hate" Serena and Richard but Venus commands the fans and the media's respect AND SHE GETS IT...ALL THE TIME. Just reading some posts, it's as if posters (not trolls) are very careful with their comments about Venus. To her credit, she's instilled fear in everyone, not just her opponents. :p I'm just NOT one of them because I'll rake Venus over the coals (constructively, of course) without batting an eye.

:nerner:

:speakles:

That is just NOT true.
But just take a peak in the Williams health scare thread - or that article Morrissey posted describing Venus as a "dizzy sore loser". Or that press conference where she was pushed to a point of responding to "naysayers" and walking out.

People seem to have an inability to separate Venus from Serena and Richard. That's just how it is.

Highlandman
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:02 PM
Memphis
Miami
Amelia Island
Charleston
Warsaw
Istanbul
Paris
Wimbledon
San Diego
US Open

= 10 tournaments for 2007 :p

Matt01
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Memphis
Miami
Amelia Island
Charleston
Warsaw
Istanbul
Paris
Wimbledon
San Diego
US Open

= 10 tournaments for 2007 :p

Plus Fed Cup :)

Interesting that she chose to play so many clay tourneys...

Highlandman
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Plus Fed Cup :)

Interesting that she chose to play so many clay tourneys...

Yep, four matches there in 07 :)

Yeah, she decided to play Amelia Island after losing in R3 of Miami, was a good choice. But she had a bad form there against Sharapova and in Amelia Island she didn't play well, too.

But I still wonder why she didn't play one of the big tournament on red clay (Berlin or Rome) ;) When I remember Istanbul R2 :tape: :tape: :help: :help:

felipe2004
Sep 18th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Memphis
Miami
Amelia Island
Charleston
Warsaw
Istanbul
Paris
Wimbledon
San Diego
US Open

= 10 tournaments for 2007 :p

I corrected the first post (from 9 to 10). ;)

Paneru
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:12 AM
Thank you!

I too get so tired of people saying that Venus doesn't
play or isn't committed. She only missed one scheduled
tour event on her calendar since her return.(Toronto)

Venus when healthy does play. And as some have said, it's
simply a matter of perception. Venus tends to have early
losses at the beginning of the year, but by spring going
into summer is where her game and results pick up more
consistently. Hence, her profile and press follow.

Callystarr
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:16 AM
Yes Venus has played often but that was in 2004/2005 she was dedicated and played often just lost often...however the last two years is a different story.

Paneru
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:35 AM
Yes Venus has played often but that was in 2004/2005 she was dedicated and played often just lost often...however the last two years is a different story.

So True.

Having a similar injury that helped force Clijsters
off tour and required surgery for Venus to fix and
kept her off tour for most of 06' and the beginning
of 07' showed a lack of dedication? Yeah, whatever.


04' 16 events + 1 FED Cup tie
05' 12 events + 2 FED Cup ties
06' 6 events
07' 10 events(so far) + 2 FED Cup ties

Given Venus injuries in 06' and causing her to miss
the start of 07', 06' ofcourse saw a lull in play.
And since her return in 07', she has been going quite
strong and playing more regularly.

BTW, given Venus anemia/energy issue's, to play
four back-to-back-to-back-to-back Slam matches
and then carrying her Fed Cup Team on her back
despite the fact that she had to be exhausted with many
fans not wanting her to play shows nothing but dedication
in my book. She gave her word to play if at all possible and she did.

sammy01
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:37 AM
i hate stats like these because there stupid and misleading! take out 2004 and just go on the last 3 years and venus has played 28 tournaments compared to henins 33! stats dont lie but they can easily be manipulated, now who looks like they play more with my new stats?

tennisbum79
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:41 AM
Wow, I've always thought that the Williams sisters play the least tournaments. I'm pleasantly surprised I have to say.
One would think that tennis fans like posters on this board would have learned by now not to confuse both sisters.
I guess that is asking for too much.

I would not be surprised if we find some posters who blame the sisters for their
own confusion.
Kind of, "they made me doing it" defense

Paneru
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:42 AM
i hate stats like these because there stupid and misleading! take out 2004 and just go on the last 3 years and venus has played 28 tournaments compared to henins 33! stats dont lie but they can easily be manipulated, now who looks like they play more with my new stats?

Slow down.

No one is trying to slight Henin.

This is about the perception that Venus doesn't
play and therefore isn't dedicated. Yet, when
she is healthy she does and has played.

Her results haven't been as steady and consistently
good as Justine, but she gets out there and works.

RJWCapriati
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:42 AM
:eek: :eek:

go hingis
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Henin took the Williams road a few years back and doesn't play much. She was dying for Richard to adopt her but unfortunately she never got the offer because Richard wants Martina. lol

sammy01
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:50 AM
Slow down.

No one is trying to slight Henin.

This is about the perception that Venus doesn't
play and therefore isn't dedicated. Yet, when
she is healthy she does and has played.

Her results haven't been as steady and consistently
good as Justine, but she gets out there and works.

i no i didn't mean it like that, i just have a gripe with people bundling things together! what that stat tells me is that venus played more tournaments than henin in 04 and 05! but henin has played more tournaments in 06 and 07! there are reasons behind both such as injuries and ilness!

tennisbum79
Sep 18th, 2007, 02:57 AM
Henin took the Williams road a few years back and doesn't play much. She was dying for Richard to adopt her but unfortunately she never got the offer because Richard wants Martina. lol
:lol:
Seriously, I think Richard like Martina's attitude.
They are kind of alike: unpredictable in what they will say

fufuqifuqishahah
Sep 18th, 2007, 05:07 AM
i dont think its fair to include 2004 when Venus was playing a real full schedule

Helaena
Sep 18th, 2007, 01:17 PM
So True.

Having a similar injury that helped force Clijsters
off tour and required surgery for Venus to fix and
kept her off tour for most of 06' and the beginning
of 07' showed a lack of dedication? Yeah, whatever.


04' 16 events + 1 FED Cup tie
05' 12 events + 2 FED Cup ties
06' 6 events
07' 10 events(so far) + 2 FED Cup ties

Given Venus injuries in 06' and causing her to miss
the start of 07', 06' ofcourse saw a lull in play.
And since her return in 07', she has been going quite
strong and playing more regularly.

BTW, given Venus anemia/energy issue's, to play
four back-to-back-to-back-to-back Slam matches
and then carrying her Fed Cup Team on her back
despite the fact that she had to be exhausted with many
fans not wanting her to play shows nothing but dedication
in my book. She gave her word to play if at all possible and she did.

im impressed. :yeah: