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*JR*
Sep 9th, 2007, 12:48 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6985808.stm

Last Updated: Sunday, 9 September 2007, 11:30 GMT (BBC)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44105000/jpg/_44105378_bbcsalute.jpg
The gang photographed themselves doing Nazi salutes

Footage of attacks
Israeli police say they have broken up a gang of neo-Nazis who are accused of carrying out attacks on foreigners, gay people and religious Jews.

The eight suspects, aged 16-21, are all Israeli citizens from the former Soviet Union. They were arrested a month ago, but the news only emerged on Saturday.

Police say searches of their homes yielded Nazi uniforms, portraits of Adolf Hitler, knives, guns and TNT.

Israel was founded in the wake of the Nazi Holocaust in which millions died.

The arrests follow a year-long inquiry which began after a synagogue in Petah Tikva, a city east of Tel Aviv, was desecrated with graffiti of Nazi swastikas and the name of Nazi leader Adolf Hitler.

Tattoos

The eight accused, who include the group's alleged leader, are all from Petah Tikva.

The gang members sported tattoos popular with white supremacists - including the number 88, code for Heil Hitler because "H" is the eight letter of the alphabet.

"We believe that this is the main gang working in the area... the main gang that exists [in Israel] that attempts to use Hitler's ideology," police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told AFP news agency.

Police say the gang members would target homosexuals, Jews who wore a skull cap and drug addicts, often video taping their attacks.

"It is difficult to believe that Nazi ideology sympathisers can exist in Israel, but it is a fact," Revital Almog, the police official who led the investigation, told Israeli public radio.

The suspects, all from Petah Tiqva, have admitted assaulting a number of people in Tel Aviv, most of them foreign workers.

Ms Almog said that the gang would pick on someone who appeared unable to defend themselves and then attack.

They often filmed or photographed the violence.

Footage of the attacks show people lying on the ground whilst being kicked by more than one assailant.

In one clip a man is hit around the back of the head with a bottle.

According to the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz one video shows gang members surrounding a Russian drug addict as he admits to being a Jew.

The youths then order him onto his knees to beg for forgiveness for being Jewish and a drug addict before viciously beating not only him, but also another man who tries to intervene.

The suspects all migrated to Israel under the Law of Return which allows anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent to become a citizen.

Ms Almog said of the accused, "their connection to Judaism is distant, through grandparents or distant family connections".

Sam L
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:08 PM
The eight suspects, aged 16-21, are all Israeli citizens from the former Soviet Union.

Why am I not surprised? :help:

This is sickening that they actually got into Israel.

kiwifan
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:46 PM
I was just coming to NT to post this story.

Neo-Nazis in Israel :lol:

I don't like their "life expectancy" chances. :devil:

ys
Sep 9th, 2007, 03:24 PM
Everyone fights for what they think is right. That's life.

Apoleb
Sep 9th, 2007, 03:51 PM
I'm not totally surprised. I once chatted with a rabbi on the internet (at least that's what he said) and he told me that Hitler did the Holocaust to get rid of the bad Jews. Just to point out that, yes, neo-Nazis exist everywhere even where you wouldn't expect them.

Volcana
Sep 9th, 2007, 05:51 PM
I just posted another thread about this. Oops.

Given human psychology, I'm not totally surprised. After all, something turned Clarence Thomas against his own people. The same thing could turn Jews into Nazis.

meyerpl
Sep 9th, 2007, 06:02 PM
If they were going to try get a Nazi movement going, they couldn't pick a more daunting location than Israel. While I'm disgusted by their politics, I'm amazed by their optimism. Did they really expect Nazism to have broad appeal in Israel? Didn't they conduct a demographic assessment before they launched their project? They should have considered something with a better chance of success, like say....selling encyclopedias door-to-door.

meyerpl
Sep 9th, 2007, 06:05 PM
It's like trying to sell a date-rape drug at a women's shelter.

Infiniti2001
Sep 9th, 2007, 06:22 PM
I just posted another thread about this. Oops.

Given human psychology, I'm not totally surprised. After all, something turned Clarence Thomas against his own people. The same thing could turn Jews into Nazis.

Yes they are are Israelis, but lets not over look the fact that they are foreign born which explains their mentality as far as I am concerned. I'm not saying that born Israelis can't be neo-nazis, but these young men came into the country with a totally different mentality :shrug: I guess they thought they could ger away with it ehh?

Sam L
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:39 AM
I think people are missing the point. Yes, there are self-hating jews but that's not really the case here. No where does it say this group is jewish. They only got into Israel because of the Law of Return which requires a single Jewish relative to qualify.

It only means one thing, Israel really needs to take a careful look at the people they allow in with the Law of Return especially from countries like Russia where there's poverty and where people are desperate to come to an advanced country like Israel.

mykarma
Sep 10th, 2007, 03:56 AM
I think people are missing the point. Yes, there are self-hating jews but that's not really the case here. No where does it say this group is jewish. They only got into Israel because of the Law of Return which requires a single Jewish relative to qualify.

It only means one thing, Israel really needs to take a careful look at the people they allow in with the Law of Return especially from countries like Russia where there's poverty and where people are desperate to come to an advanced country like Israel.
Whether they're Jewish or not it's really sick. From the article it said that at least one grandparent has to be Jewish which means it still self hate. If this wasn't so serious you could put these people on "dumb criminals".

HippityHop
Sep 10th, 2007, 04:00 AM
Everyone fights for what they think is right. That's life.

WTF does that mean?

Sam L
Sep 10th, 2007, 04:01 AM
Whether they're Jewish or not it's really sick. My question to you is Israel in the habit of importing non-Jewish Russians?

Yes, unfortunately. There are things I don't want to say but all I'll say is that Israel really needs to look into this.

mykarma
Sep 10th, 2007, 04:06 AM
Yes, unfortunately. There are things I don't want to say but all I'll say is that Israel really needs to look into this.
I edited my previous post where it said that at least one grandparent had to be Jewish. That is still self-hate.

ys
Sep 11th, 2007, 02:59 AM
WTF does that mean?

WTF is not clear here?

People have ideas. Right or wrong. Wonderful or stupid. And if they happen to believe in those ideas and happen to have guts to translate those ideas into action, something happens. And that's how it is, hopefully, always going to be.

Brett.
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:04 AM
Everyone fights for what they think is right. That's life.

You're a dickhead. Think about freedom and peace.

Brett.
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:06 AM
WTF is not clear here?

People have ideas. Right or wrong. Wonderful or stupid. And if they happen to believe in those ideas and happen to have guts to translate those ideas into action, something happens. And that's how it is, hopefully, always going to be.

Think about what might happen if a neo-nazi doesn't like your family member or your friend. I'm sure you would be very upset.

FREEDOM AND PEACE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam L
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:31 AM
WTF is not clear here?

People have ideas. Right or wrong. Wonderful or stupid. And if they happen to believe in those ideas and happen to have guts to translate those ideas into action, something happens. And that's how it is, hopefully, always going to be.

This isn't Russia. Other countries have laws and people have rights. You just can't have random "ideas" and translate them in "action". :rolleyes: If a person has racist ideas it's up to the rest of us to tell them it's wrong. Not that, "everyone fights for what they think is right".

Anyway, this bunch will get deported back to Russia for sure. Good riddance.

Sam L
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:34 AM
I edited my previous post where it said that at least one grandparent had to be Jewish. That is still self-hate.

They may have forged their papers. You never know. You have to realize that there was a huge jewish population in Russia. To trace back your ancestry to one grandparent may not be a hard thing. It's complicated but these people were never jewish in the first place and only came to Israel because of what they could gain financially and a better life. And now they'll be sent back, for sure.

ys
Sep 11th, 2007, 10:34 AM
This isn't Russia. Other countries have laws and people have rights. You just can't have random "ideas" and translate them in "action".

Funny thing is that you actually can. You have to pay for that, right, with your life or your future.. But you can take your chances and ttranslate your ideas into action against the existing law. Breaking existing law is the only way of changing things quick. Again , the price can be high. But that's exactly what makes us different from vegetables - an ability to do things against our own self-preservation instinct. Russian dissidents, chinese students, Nelson Mandela, these guys.. The ideas are totally opposite, but the basics are the same - you have to have the guts to do what you think is right, even if you pay the price.

Sam L
Sep 11th, 2007, 11:59 AM
Funny thing is that you actually can. You have to pay for that, right, with your life or your future.. But you can take your chances and ttranslate your ideas into action against the existing law. Breaking existing law is the only way of changing things quick. Again , the price can be high. But that's exactly what makes us different from vegetables - an ability to do things against our own self-preservation instinct. Russian dissidents, chinese students, Nelson Mandela, these guys.. The ideas are totally opposite, but the basics are the same - you have to have the guts to do what you think is right, even if you pay the price.

Cut to the chase, we're talking about racism here. It's not a legal issue. We're opposed to it because we are opposed to it morally as well as legally.

If you want to talk about dissidents and chinese students go talk about in another thread. :rolleyes:

If you want to say no to racism and hate crimes - and talk about these issues - this is your opportunity in this thread.

Your attempt at pseudo-philosophical musings failed and rather it makes you look like someone who condones racism.

V.Melb
Sep 11th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Lack of education is always the scariest thing, and many Russians are poorly educated which often leads to a violent nature. Apparently the Israeli's even have problems with russian jews (is this true? i have been told this)

Israel is a highly advanced country, like any western european nation. I have freinds there who told me that many poor russian woman pretend to be jewish just so that they can escape the poverty of russia to be able to come to Isreal. Most of these russians convert to judaism (even though they claim that they arleady are jewish) or marry christian arabs of which there is a large population in israel.
We must remember, even arab countries like Lebanon and Syria, are more advanced (or safe on a day to day basis) than Russia.
Anyway, these creeps will be sent back to Russia, where many racists and neo nazis will be there to make freinds with them.

tarheel
Sep 11th, 2007, 05:15 PM
ages 16-21?? can you imagine a 16 year old involved in this kind of stuff? so sad...

-Ph51-
Sep 11th, 2007, 06:49 PM
Funny thing is that you actually can. You have to pay for that, right, with your life or your future.. But you can take your chances and ttranslate your ideas into action against the existing law. Breaking existing law is the only way of changing things quick. Again , the price can be high. But that's exactly what makes us different from vegetables - an ability to do things against our own self-preservation instinct. Russian dissidents, chinese students, Nelson Mandela, these guys.. The ideas are totally opposite, but the basics are the same - you have to have the guts to do what you think is right, even if you pay the price.

Stalin, Hitler, etc, etc...:help:

*JR*
Sep 11th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Last Updated: Tuesday, 11 September 2007, 16:11 GMT (BBC)

Authorities in Israel have charged eight immigrants accused of belonging to a neo-Nazi gang, in a case which shocked the country.

The group - all from the former Soviet Union - were charged with a range of offences, including aggravated assault and spreading racist material.

They are suspected of attacking religious Jews and other immigrants and daubing Nazi swastikas in synagogues.

The group's arrest sparked calls for changes to Israel's immigration laws.

The youths, aged 16 to 19, were granted Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return because at least one of each of their grandparents is Jewish.

Shimon Weiss, the lawyer for the alleged ringleader, named in Israeli media as Eli Boanitov, said his client denied the charges against him.

A report quoting Mr Boanitov's sister suggested her brother had once worked as an electrician in the Israeli prime minister's office.

The grandmother of one of the suspects is herself a Holocaust survivor from Ukraine, Israeli media said.

She said she would "rather have perished in the Holocaust than experience what my grandson is putting me through", Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported.

The case has caused widespread revulsion and disbelief in Israel, which was founded in the wake of the Nazi Holocaust, which killed some six million Jews across Europe.

ys
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:42 AM
And now they'll be sent back, for sure.

Are you stupid or what? I undestand these guys from land of cons who live in the middle of nowhere and know little if anything about the rest of the world.. But you? These people are Israeli cittizens, Israeli residents, having no affiliation whatsoever with Russia at this point. Israel is a good democracy. They do not evict their own citizens for crimes. They imprison them. So, these guys will go to prison and will spend some time in a compnay of people who definitely share their view on orthodox jews - with palestinian terrorists. Hopefully they make friends.

Marshmallow
Sep 12th, 2007, 10:57 AM
Its Neo-Nazi the new black of this season? The latest fad sweeping the globe?

Why are so many young men and women, glorifying such idealogy? Why are so many young men and women venting their anger, depression, and lack of opportunities in this way? Is it perhaps the only way that they can feel superior, or feel like they have any worth?

It all just seems to be getting worse.

Sam L
Sep 12th, 2007, 11:46 AM
Are you stupid or what? I undestand these guys from land of cons who live in the middle of nowhere and know little if anything about the rest of the world.. But you? These people are Israeli cittizens, Israeli residents, having no affiliation whatsoever with Russia at this point. Israel is a good democracy. They do not evict their own citizens for crimes. They imprison them. So, these guys will go to prison and will spend some time in a compnay of people who definitely share their view on orthodox jews - with palestinian terrorists. Hopefully they make friends.

They are looking at immigration laws and they can send them back if they want. Fact is, you don't know anything about Israel's other problems with people from "Law of Return" so I'd advise you to not make this a simple case of criminals going to jail. :rolleyes:

This is a great thing that's happened. Israel really needs to look at what sort of people they take in from countries like Russia - land of cons, like you said - and this will wake them up. These people maybe Israeli citizens but they became Israeli citizens because they could - jewish ancestry, whether true or not, who knows - not because they really want to be. It's obvious that they still identify themselves as strongly Russian and have Russian contacts.

mykarma
Sep 12th, 2007, 04:24 PM
They are looking at immigration laws and they can send them back if they want. Fact is, you don't know anything about Israel's other problems with people from "Law of Return" so I'd advise you to not make this a simple case of criminals going to jail. :rolleyes:

This is a great thing that's happened. Israel really needs to look at what sort of people they take in from countries like Russia - land of cons, like you said - and this will wake them up. These people maybe Israeli citizens but they became Israeli citizens because they could - jewish ancestry, whether true or not, who knows - not because they really want to be. It's obvious that they still identify themselves as strongly Russian and have Russian contacts.
How can Israel send them to Russia if the no longer have Russian citizens? Anyhow, they'll probably be better off in Russia than being in jail in Israel. I'm sure the Israeli prisoners and guards will make them wish they'd never stepped foot there. I can only imagine the pain the grandmother of that idiot feels.