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View Full Version : Justine proved she is now a better player than Venus and Serena


gaggleguy
Sep 8th, 2007, 01:47 PM
not trying to cause trouble but this thread is just a equilizer thread to the other one that is posted by super-grunt about "Venus proved she is better". Fair is fair

LANGAM
Sep 8th, 2007, 01:53 PM
she proved she was the better player on the day! can we all calm down. Until the next time they play

goldenlox
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Since Justine had her breakthrough by winning her 1st major, she's been by far the best player. That's almost 5 years now. She's won more majors than Venus and Serena combined since then.
This year, Justine is 4-0 vs a Williams in a major. Justine's by far the best player.

Slutiana
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:13 PM
:weirdo:

so tian tian sun is better than serena and rezai is better than venus? yes, henin beat serena 3 times and serena only once but if serena gets into shape, we'll see. Henin beat venus once. All that proved is that shes a great player on all surfaces. Venus didn't play too well. I hope they can play again in YEC

Olórin
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Since Justine had her breakthrough by winning her 1st major, she's been by far the best player. That's almost 5 years now. She's won more majors than Venus and Serena combined since then.
This year, Justine is 4-0 vs a Williams in a major. Justine's by far the best player.

All that proves is that AT THE MOMENT Justine is the world number one, which we all knew anyway. And that since a specific time frame YOU have designated, Justine has won more majors. Why do you only take it from Justine's breakthrough? How is that proving objectively that Justine is a better player than Venus and Serena. To prove that you would have to take results objectively from a time period that allows for some equanimity between all three.

Mileen
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:24 PM
She's been proving that for a long, long time. She masters every shot and has the best technique; Williams sisters never have.

JuJupova
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:25 PM
shes been proving it for years

Marshmallow
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Since Justine had her breakthrough by winning her 1st major, she's been by far the best player. That's almost 5 years now. She's won more majors than Venus and Serena combined since then.
This year, Justine is 4-0 vs a Williams in a major. Justine's by far the best player.

Goldenlox, you're getting ahead of yourself. Since 2003 - Venus and Serena have had problems that meant they couldn't commit to tennis like they did pre 2003. Death of sister, numerous injuries and surgeries. In fact Serena started to decline and got worse and worse and was at her lowest in 2006. Venus just never regained her form and lost confidence. [All while justine - bar her 'Virus'/Steroid-come down :tape: - was able to compete and grow in confidence].

At the moment Justine is the best player, but Venus is getting her confidence back, and Serena is working in that direction. We'll see.

Serena_thebest
Sep 8th, 2007, 03:10 PM
if she's really that much better, I guess we'll have a really boring 2008. I don't think she's a better player, she just had a better year.

@danieln1
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:14 PM
I think we know that fact for a long time, Justine style of play can´t be compared to anyone on the tour, of course she is better than the sisters, she has much more variety and inteligence on court, the opposite of the sisters... Henin is a better version of Martina, with power

Morrissey
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Whatever, Henin had a good two days credit to her. Henin's also had a consistent year but she sure is a very boring personality. Even Hingis had a better personality then Henin. I wouldn't go so far as to say she's better then the Williams Sisters. I am sure in 2008 both Sisters will bounce right back.

Wayn77
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:18 PM
The main difference now - Justine KNOWS it.

Olórin
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:18 PM
I think we know that fact for a long time, Justine style of play can´t be compared to anyone on the tour, of course she is better than the sisters, she has much more variety and inteligence on court, the opposite of the sisters... Henin is a better version of Martina, with power

Who is this "we"? I think you will find quite a lot of people won't agree with you. Justine has more options in her game, however to say that she is a better play based on that, is quite simplistic imo.

On that basis we could say Evonne Goolagong was a better player than Chris Evert, which simply wasn't the case.

Bijoux0021
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:19 PM
I think we know that fact for a long time, Justine style of play can´t be compared to anyone on the tour, of course she is better than the sisters, she has much more variety and inteligence on court, the opposite of the sisters... Henin is a better version of Martina, with power
:lol: :lol:

Olórin
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:20 PM
The main difference now - Justine KNOWS it.

Well we have a problem then, as Serena KNOWS she is the best. They can't both be right. Justine has had a great tournament, give credit to her. But no need to go overboard and make far reaching conclusions based on 4 days of play and many intangibles besides.

V-MAC
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:24 PM
I guess it could be said that Juju has Serena's number alright with beating her three times in a row now but she only just got the better of Venus. We'll have to see more Vee/Juju encounters before jumping to such conclusions.

Paneru
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Well good for her.

Yet, the thing that makes all of them Champions is that unlike far
too many others whom have not what they have, they don't play time
and time again to prove anything to anyone else but themselves.

Did Justine go into the US Open having been shocked at Wimbledon thinking if she lost she was not the best player?
Did Serena going into Australia unranked thinking that she was not the best player?
Did Venus going into Wimbledon not knowing if she'd even be seeded think she was not the best player?

It's easy for us all to sit and go on and on and on. Yet, they are all Champions not
because they can talk, but because they leave the other stuff and the door and go on about their business believing in their abilities.

Bottomline, one of them beating the other or both at one point,
is not going to stop them from chaning things at another point.

They all believe they are the best,
as any champion should!

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:57 PM
Ok ..how is Justine Henin the best player of all time and her ass havent even won wimbledon...also..check the head to heads....she is tied with Serena and Venus still has a winning record over her. I think some of yall are a little too excited, pissing in your pants because she beat Venus yesterday...you all forgot that she DID loose to Serena this year and Bartoli. She beat Venus by 1 game and a tie break..THATS NOT DOMINATION...but its still a win...Venus and Serena are still not playing the tennis we know they can...She the best player AT THE MOMENT...but she can be beating..and surely top players do not fear her..especially Venus and Serena...she IS NOT the target for them....and they will get her...dont believe me....ask Sharapova ;)

sharapovarulz1
Sep 8th, 2007, 06:58 PM
It doesn't prove she is a better player than her!

SV_Fan
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:00 PM
No not really it just proves she is fitter, healthier than the sisters. She world number one. But in their prime they were whooping Justine's butt. If they can get into shape even though they really are they will kick justine up and down the court again. One more

winone23
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:06 PM
she proved she was the better player on the day! can we all calm down. Until the next time they play

Thank you! Some people are just plain dumb when it comes to assessing things.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:10 PM
No not really it just proves she is fitter, healthier than the sisters. She world number one. But in their prime they were whooping Justine's butt. If they can get into shape even though they really are they will kick justine up and down the court again. One more

EXACTLY....nobody is taking anything away from Justine...she's just in her nitch in tennis right now...as Venus and Serena was back in 2000-2003. Justine still has to put up a good fight to beat them though...at her best. Venus and Serena I think are playing well for them to not play as much as they do....but I know...IMO...when they are at their best...(as do many other people) those girls are THE TRUTH! (always #1 and 2) but Justine and play some hella tennis too though.

Lulu.
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:18 PM
No not really it just proves she is fitter, healthier than the sisters. She world number one. But in their prime they were whooping Justine's butt. If they can get into shape even though they really are they will kick justine up and down the court again. One more

Exactly.

sharapovarulz1
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:45 PM
No not really it just proves she is fitter, healthier than the sisters. She world number one. But in their prime they were whooping Justine's butt. If they can get into shape even though they really are they will kick justine up and down the court again. One more

Well said! :)

Forehand_Volley
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:47 PM
All that proves is that AT THE MOMENT Justine is the world number one, which we all knew anyway. And that since a specific time frame YOU have designated, Justine has won more majors. Why do you only take it from Justine's breakthrough? How is that proving objectively that Justine is a better player than Venus and Serena. To prove that you would have to take results objectively from a time period that allows for some equanimity between all three.

Justine is the best in tennis since 2003.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=11450630&postcount=1

mp3junkie
Sep 8th, 2007, 07:50 PM
I think we know that fact for a long time, Justine style of play can´t be compared to anyone on the tour, of course she is better than the sisters, she has much more variety and inteligence on court, the opposite of the sisters... Henin is a better version of Martina, with power


You are a complete idiot and a racist for making those kinds of statement. Go jump off a cliff.

Olórin
Sep 8th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Justine is the best in tennis since 2003.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=11450630&postcount=1

Did you read my post?

Informative
Sep 8th, 2007, 09:04 PM
The assertions made at the beginning of this thread are not only wrong but absurd. As for myself I totally agree with the following post by the poster "Accuracy" (taken from "The Fabulous Williams Sisters" messageboard today):


Your argument (and Henin's words) still doesn't alter the fact that the REASON "the praise and adulation is going to get out of control" and why she is being "exalted to high heaven for beating the sisters back to back" has absolutely nothing to do with Henin finally beating Venus for the first time in a Slam (and only the second time in her career) or even beating Serena three in a row. Biased commentators, "fans", and the tennis media have ALWAYS--repeat--ALWAYS given the sisters's opponents far more credit than they've earned or deserved. The list is VERY LONG and goes on for YEARS: Remember what all the so-called "experts", "authorities" and "fans" said about Hingis, Davenport, Capriati, Hantuchova, Shaugnessy, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Jankovic, Myskina, Kuznetsova, Sprem, etc., etc., etc. vis-a-vis the sisters? They all predicted that these players would eventually outstrip, surpass, or even "dominate" the sisters but the truth is that collectively ALL OF THESE PLAYERS HAVE A LOSING RECORD AGAINST VENUS AND SERENA. Hell, only TWO PLAYERS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS HAVE EVEN BEATEN THE SISTERS IN A GRAND SLAM FINAL (for a grand total of two times between them). Meanwhile Venus and Serena have appeared in 22 finals!!

My obvious point is that this means that the Rodent isn't any closer to 'surpassing' or 'dominating' the sisters than any of the other aforementioned players. THAT'S AN ILLUSION. One can't merely CLAIM or ASSERT that Henin is doing something she simply hasn't done BASED ON THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE. It's astonishing to me how these ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated claims keep being made about other players vs. the sisters year after year yet the FACTS clearly show that these highly exaggerated and ludicrous claims are completely BOGUS. Even playing a parttime schedule the sisters have a better record against the Rodent and everyone else. Consider this FACT: Venus and Serena have still won more GS titles between them than ALL THE RUSSIANS, SERBS, AND BELGIANS COMBINED .

Given all that do I still wish the sisters would play more? Absolutely. I, among many other people have been begging and pleading with them as well as excoriating them for years to play a fuller schedule, and cut way down on all the outside activity so that they could COMPLETELY DOMINATE the WTA. We all know they COULD AND WOULD if they did so. But clearly that's not going to happen much to our collective regret. However, that still doesn't mean that Henin or anyone else on tour is "superior" to the sisters. Like I said in my earlier post and for all the reasons I stated there and in this post The Rodent is nowhere close to being a 'better' or 'greater' player. I've often praised the values of dedication, desire, and discipline in my posts over the years. I believe 100% that there's absolutely no substitute for them. But even my belief in those values doesn't obscure my ability to see that Venus and Serena have been--by far--the best two players in the WTA since 1999. The FACTS substantiating and providing ballast and EVIDENCE to that assertion are overwhelming and irrefutable.

Even with the Rodent's victory, they STILL ARE. I don't care what Henin herself otherwise claims. She still has to actually PROVE it consistently on the court. She simply hasn't done so yet. Not by a long shot. Like I said until and/or unless she does she is not even close to besting the sisters. I believe in giving credit where nad when it is due. But a person still has to EARN IT. Just like the sisters did. Anything less is bullshit and a LIE.

SV_Fan
Sep 8th, 2007, 09:12 PM
The assertions made at the beginning of this thread are not only wrong but absurd. As for myself I totally agree with the following post by the poster "Accuracy" (taken from "The Fabulous Williams Sisters" messageboard today):


Your argument (and Henin's words) still doesn't alter the fact that the REASON "the praise and adulation is going to get out of control" and why she is being "exalted to high heaven for beating the sisters back to back" has absolutely nothing to do with Henin finally beating Venus for the first time in a Slam (and only the second time in her career) or even beating Serena three in a row. Biased commentators, "fans", and the tennis media have ALWAYS--repeat--ALWAYS given the sisters's opponents far more credit than they've earned or deserved. The list is VERY LONG and goes on for YEARS: Remember what all the so-called "experts", "authorities" and "fans" said about Hingis, Davenport, Capriati, Hantuchova, Shaugnessy, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Jankovic, Myskina, Kuznetsova, Sprem, etc., etc., etc. vis-a-vis the sisters? They all predicted that these players would eventually outstrip, surpass, or even "dominate" the sisters but the truth is that collectively ALL OF THESE PLAYERS HAVE A LOSING RECORD AGAINST VENUS AND SERENA. Hell, only TWO PLAYERS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS HAVE EVEN BEATEN THE SISTERS IN A GRAND SLAM FINAL (for a grand total of two times between them). Meanwhile Venus and Serena have appeared in 22 finals!!

My obvious point is that this means that the Rodent isn't any closer to 'surpassing' or 'dominating' the sisters than any of the other aforementioned players. THAT'S AN ILLUSION. One can't merely CLAIM or ASSERT that Henin is doing something she simply hasn't done BASED ON THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE. It's astonishing to me how these ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated claims keep being made about other players vs. the sisters year after year yet the FACTS clearly show that these highly exaggerated and ludicrous claims are completely BOGUS. Even playing a parttime schedule the sisters have a better record against the Rodent and everyone else. Consider this FACT: Venus and Serena have still won more GS titles between them than ALL THE RUSSIANS, SERBS, AND BELGIANS COMBINED .

Given all that do I still wish the sisters would play more? Absolutely. I, among many other people have been begging and pleading with them as well as excoriating them for years to play a fuller schedule, and cut way down on all the outside activity so that they could COMPLETELY DOMINATE the WTA. We all know they COULD AND WOULD if they did so. But clearly that's not going to happen much to our collective regret. However, that still doesn't mean that Henin or anyone else on tour is "superior" to the sisters. Like I said in my earlier post and for all the reasons I stated there and in this post The Rodent is nowhere close to being a 'better' or 'greater' player. I've often praised the values of dedication, desire, and discipline in my posts over the years. I believe 100% that there's absolutely no substitute for them. But even my belief in those values doesn't obscure my ability to see that Venus and Serena have been--by far--the best two players in the WTA since 1999. The FACTS substantiating and providing ballast and EVIDENCE to that assertion are overwhelming and irrefutable.

Even with the Rodent's victory, they STILL ARE. I don't care what Henin herself otherwise claims. She still has to actually PROVE it consistently on the court. She simply hasn't done so yet. Not by a long shot. Like I said until and/or unless she does she is not even close to besting the sisters. I believe in giving credit where nad when it is due. But a person still has to EARN IT. Just like the sisters did. Anything less is bullshit and a LIE.

Thank You

If you saw Mary is always aying what they should do to beat Venus and Serena. So is Bill Macatee it's like no one likes them. Everyone in the world knows that Serena could beat anyone in 2002-2003 and the same with Venus. It took a CHEATINGJustine and a pissed Serena to make her loose and look she wiped the floot with her at Wimbledon.

BUT ONE MORE QUESTION IF JUSTINE WAS SO DOMINATE SHE WOULD HAVE , I REPEAT WOULD HAVE CLOSED SERENA IN STRAIT SETS AT WIMBLEDON. BUT I THINK IT TOOK 3. THATS SHOWS HOW VULNERABLE SHE IS.

Matt01
Sep 8th, 2007, 10:31 PM
BUT ONE MORE QUESTION IF JUSTINE WAS SO DOMINATE SHE WOULD HAVE , I REPEAT WOULD HAVE CLOSED SERENA IN STRAIT SETS AT WIMBLEDON. BUT I THINK IT TOOK 3. THATS SHOWS HOW VULNERABLE SHE IS.

:lol: Delusional.

Matt01
Sep 8th, 2007, 10:35 PM
No not really it just proves she is fitter, healthier than the sisters. She world number one. But in their prime they were whooping Justine's butt. If they can get into shape even though they really are they will kick justine up and down the court again. One more

Just a small reminder: Justine proved already years ago that she can compete with the sisters when they are healthy. It was Justine who ended peak-Serena's domination when Justine beat Serena in Charleston and RG in 2003. :wavey:

Marcus1979
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Since Justine had her breakthrough by winning her 1st major, she's been by far the best player. That's almost 5 years now. She's won more majors than Venus and Serena combined since then.
This year, Justine is 4-0 vs a Williams in a major. Justine's by far the best player.

whats her H2H Vs your russian players tho :tape:

Forehand_Volley
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Just a small reminder: Justine proved already years ago that she can compete with the sisters when they are healthy. It was Justine who ended peak-Serena's domination when Justine beat Serena in Charleston and RG in 2003. :wavey:
It was Justine that halted Serena's GS winning streak at 4.

Olórin
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:06 PM
Just a small reminder: Justine proved already years ago that she can compete with the sisters when they are healthy. It was Justine who ended peak-Serena's domination when Justine beat Serena in Charleston and RG in 2003. :wavey:

Yes, Justine ended Serena 23 match winning streak, just like Chanda Rubin ended Serena's 21 match winning streak in 2002. Justine is definitely right up there with Chanda :yeah:

Matt01
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:10 PM
Justine is definitely right up there with Chanda :yeah:

Actually I think it should be: "Chanda is definitely right up there with Justine :yeah: " Almost ;)

Hazy
Sep 8th, 2007, 11:13 PM
Consider this FACT: Venus and Serena have still won more GS titles between them than ALL THE RUSSIANS, SERBS, AND BELGIANS COMBINED .


What are the Serbs doing in there? Justine won more slams than all Chinese, Canadians and Indonesians combined...

Forehand_Volley
Sep 9th, 2007, 12:38 AM
2003: Henin v Serena 2-1, Henin v Venus 0-1
2007: Henin v Serena 3-1, Henin v Venus 1-0

Henin v Williams 6-3 since January 2003
That's almost five years.

SunriseSunset
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:11 AM
2003: Henin v Serena 2-1, Henin v Venus 0-1
2007: Henin v Serena 3-1, Henin v Venus 1-0

Henin v Williams 6-3 since January 2003
That's almost five years.

And?:)

Forehand_Volley
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:12 AM
And?:)
Since Henin won her first GS title, its been all her.

DA FOREHAND
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:21 AM
I think we know that fact for a long time, Justine style of play can´t be compared to anyone on the tour, of course she is better than the sisters, she has much more variety and inteligence on court, the opposite of the sisters... Henin is a better version of Martina, with power

iF I had two brains I'd be a better player too:wavey:

harloo
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Henin proved that she's the best player of 2007 even though the #1 player is supposed to beat the lower ranked players anyways. Justine is dedicated to tennis while the sisters are in and out, up and down. Things could very well turn around next year if both sisters really start taking tennis seriously again. That's the beauty of tennis there's always another match that can be played.:)

G~Playa
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:22 AM
PwNinG

doni1212
Sep 9th, 2007, 01:24 AM
iF I had two brains I'd be a better player too:wavey:

:lol: