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View Full Version : Coach Richard Williams: Why Can't He Make Adjustments??


tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 10:41 PM
After watching both Venus-JJ and Serena-Henin, you would have thought good Richard would have made an adjustment to Venus's game before this match.
Nothing I saw today suggests he did

1. The forehand was still wobbly
2. The footwork still lacking, especially when the ball is hit directly at Venus
3. Serve still poor (under 50% first serve)
4. Venus seems lost in the middle of the court, as she was against JJ.

kiwifan
Sep 7th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Well the same guy has Serena serving awesome and with variety and a great second serve...

...her awful forehand is good enough to beat almost every player on the tour, correction good enough to beat EVERY player on the tour...

...no one her height has ever had better footwork than Venus Williams...

...so you gotta put the blame on the student, not the teacher here.

Venus is just fine, she just lost a tennis match.

Thankfully she'll be playing many many more. :angel:

Rexman
Sep 7th, 2007, 10:57 PM
Venus served at 59%. That's not great, but it's not awful, and it's the same percentage Justine served...

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Well the same guy has Serena serving awesome and with variety and a great second serve...

...her awful forehand is good enough to beat almost every player on the tour, correction good enough to beat EVERY player on the tour...

That may be true, however to win the championship, you have to beat
the top palyers, and at least one of them is not impressed with that forehand.




Venus is just fine, she just lost a tennis match.

Thankfully she'll be playing many many more. :angel:

Venus lost a tennis match she was not ready to win.

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:00 PM
Where was this thread after she won Wimbledon? :rolleyes:

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Where was this thread after she won Wimbledon? :rolleyes:
How soon they forget.

DimaDinosaur
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Well Venus and Serena won slams this year with the help of Richard Williams. That's good enough for me.

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:07 PM
Where was this thread after she won Wimbledon? :rolleyes:

She played well in Wimby. Hence this thread was not necessary.

I am talking about making adjutment based on 2 matches here:

Serena-Henin - and what Henin tendencies were there
Venus-Jankovic - and what was not working for VenusThere was one day to work on the forehand, footwork and the serve.
Of course it was too late to work on the fitness.

pigam
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:08 PM
pff wow you're hard on especially Venus.
If you can't see that Justine played a tactically totally different game than JJ against venus, than you're blind.
Justine also played Venus totally diferently than she played Serena.
I don't think venus played a poor tactcial match, at all.
She just got beat on maybe 4-5 important points. That's what a tennis match s about; If she plays this well, she could just aswell beat Justine the next time thy play.

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:15 PM
pff wow you're hard on especially Venus.
If you can't see that Justine played a tactically totally different game than JJ against venus, than you're blind.
Justine also played Venus totally diferently than she played Serena.
I don't think venus played a poor tactcial match, at all.
She just got beat on maybe 4-5 important points. That's what a tennis match s about; If she plays this well, she could just aswell beat Justine the next time thy play.
My beef here is with the coach, not the player.

Justine picked on the forehand just as JJ did
Justine ketp the ball in play(baiting Venus to make mistakes), just as JJ did
The first servce percentage was poor, just as in Venus-JJ

It is the coach;s job to figure this out and devise a game plan.
I saw no evidence of it today.
Adn I do not think Venus is that bad a student.

That is my point.

pigam
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:23 PM
My beef here is with the coach, not the player.

Justine picked on the forehand just as JJ did
Justine ketp the ball in play(baiting Venus to make mistakes), just as JJ did
The first servce percentage was poor, just as in Venus-JJ

It is the coach;s job to figure this out and devise a game plan.
I saw no evidence of it today.
Adn I do not think Venus is that bad a student.

That is my point.

well, you should watch the match again, i think.
Also, what do you blame richard? "venus they will play in your FH, so don't make nay forehand errors" "venus, they will play long rallies, so don't get tired" "venus, they will play in the middel of the court, so you will have to get very third ball back very hard and very deep".

that's insane; strategy doesn't work that way. Venus can't just "not make any more errors" or "be 50% fitter" or whatever.

No, she looked for a strategy to take away Justine's arms.

she charged the net, and played well inside the court. She got passed at crucial times, or Ju would be a little fitter.

is it poor tactics? I don't think so.

So every match (every of ehr 7!!) Justine lost against venus is also because of her coach who wouldn't figure out what to do? Please, if the other player takes away your weapons, and you can't prevent that, you will loose, even if you KNOW what to do.

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:28 PM
My beef here is with the coach, not the player.

Justine picked on the forehand just as JJ did
Justine ketp the ball in play(baiting Venus to make mistakes), just as JJ did
The first servce percentage was poor, just as in Venus-JJ

It is the coach;s job to figure this out and devise a game plan.
I saw no evidence of it today.
Adn I do not think Venus is that bad a student.

That is my point.


Guess what? Venus will win some and lose some so you need to get over it :help:

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:30 PM
well, you should watch the match again, i think.
Also, what do you blame richard? "venus they will play in your FH, so don't make nay forehand errors" "venus, they will play long rallies, so don't get tired" "venus, they will play in the middel of the court, so you will have to get very third ball back very hard and very deep".

that's insane; strategy doesn't work that way. Venus can't just "not make any more errors" or "be 50% fitter" or whatever.

No, she looked for a strategy to take away Justine's arms.

she charged the net, and played well inside the court. She got passed at crucial times, or Ju would be a little fitter.

is it poor tactics? I don't think so.

So every match (every of ehr 7!!) Justine lost against venus is also because of her coach who wouldn't figure out what to do? Please, if the other player takes away your weapons, and you can't prevent that, you will loose, even if you KNOW what to do.

I agree, those are silly tactics and that is not what I am suggesting.
I believe one can work on the forehand for one match.
Footwork can also worked for one match.
I already said fitness adjustmentm for obvious reason, was not part of the quick adjustment.

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:31 PM
TB79,

I think you're wrong. While Venus did struggle with her first serve, you have to give Juju credit for the pressure put on it. She stood several feet beyond the baseline and simply put the ball back in play, making Venus PLAY.

As for Vee's forehand. Yeah, it broke down from time to time, but not THAT badly. The story here was not her forehand.

As for her foot work, a player like Henin, who mixes it up and keeps you guessing and has EXCELLENT passes is going to make you look a little awkward from time to time. :shrug:

For me, this match simply gets down to Juju, though I HATE to admit it, being MENTALLY tougher than Vee! PERIOD! There was no real reason for Vee to let Henin off the hook in the seventh game or to lose her serve in the final game. No reason. She broke down MENTALLY- she got tight. If she hadn't, think all of us would still be watching them play right now.

DemWilliamsGulls
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Well you can just about guarantee that Justine is Venus and Serena's new target since they both lost to her...that should be some incentive for them to get back in top notch form like they use to. Then again both of em still make more money than Henin, still more popular and still the favorite over her to..so...I dont know...honestly I would like to see them back in their unstoppable form. But they are still winning grand slams in the current form their in...so its going to depend on them.

tennisbear7
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:34 PM
I think that Richard believes that his daughters are so infallible and good that there is really no need to fix things up, and that it's just a matter of time before things fall into place.

I think that Serena and Venus have done the bulk of the work in maintaining and creating their own success, not Richard.

tennisbum79
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:36 PM
TB79,

I think you're wrong. While Venus did struggle with her first serve, you have to give Juju credit for the pressure put on it. She stood several feet beyond the baseline and simply put the ball back in play, making Venus PLAY.

As for Vee's forehand. Yeah, it broke down from time to time, but not THAT badly. The story here was not her forehand.

As for her foot work, a player like Henin, who mixes it up and keeps you guessing and has EXCELLENT passes is going to make you look a little awkward from time to time. :shrug:

For me, this match simply gets down to Juju, though I HATE to admit it, being MENTALLY tougher than Vee! PERIOD! There was no real reason for Vee to let Henin off the hook in the seventh game or to lose her serve in the final game. No reason. She broke down MENTALLY- she got tight. If she hadn't, think all of us would still be watching them play right now.
She broke down because she had no sure, relieable shot she could go to
to put the game away.
I still maintain her forehand contributed to failing to break Justine when Justine was down love-40

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:41 PM
You can analyze it until the cows come home, it won't change the results. Why can 't you just accept that Venus lost the match and move on?? :rolleyes:

sweetpeas
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:43 PM
If she hadn't, think all of us would still be watching them play right now.


Your"ll so right!

sweetpeas
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can analyze it until the cows come home, it won't change the results. Why can 't you just accept that Venus lost the match and move on??


Right...Can"t win them all.Venus try?

pigam
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:46 PM
Also, If you don't see venus' improvement between the Ausopen Masha match and her game during the last few games you're blind.
her FH teechnique, her footwork, her fitness, and her serve have improved substantially.

She just lost one match today. In a tight match, against the number 1 player. Pff :rolleyes:

All4Williams
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:50 PM
I think that Richard believes that his daughters are so infallible and good that there is really no need to fix things up, and that it's just a matter of time before things fall into place.

I think that Serena and Venus have done the bulk of the work in maintaining and creating their own success, not Richard



I take my hat off for Serena going to the Quarter finals after such a long lay off. Richard himself told us that Serena was carrying an injury. I also believe that Justine had a particulary easy draw up until she met Serena and serena had a a very difficult draw as did Venus.

At a grand slam an extra days rest which Justine got counts for a lot.

I would have liked to have seen this match played on an even playing field which this obviously was not!

Infiniti2001
Sep 7th, 2007, 11:50 PM
Also, If you don't see venus' improvement between the Ausopen Masha match and her game during the last few games you're blind.
her FH teechnique, her footwork, her fitness, and her serve have improved substantially.

She just lost one match today. In a tight match, against the number 1 player. Pff :rolleyes:


You're preaching to a fair weather fan :lol: I'm personally out of this thread :rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:01 AM
You're preaching to a fair weather fan :lol: I'm personally out of this thread :rolleyes:
I will not dignify your deranged comments in the bad reps you sent me
You always come accros as someone who do not like to invite contrarian opinion.
~ propensity to authoritarian tendencies.. maybe

GogoGirl
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:07 AM
All,

Another dumb azz thread. Mr. Williams is not out there during a match when the player is supposed to execute and make adjustments. It was Venus that didn't excecute the way she hoped. Mr. Williams nor his daughters have ever had to try to cheat during a match. The sisters have been on the tour for ten and 9 years respectfully - and they've never had to look to Pops.

Besides - TWO OF HIS DAUGHTERS WON SLAMS THIS YEAR. How about that? Who ultimately gets the credit - though? The sisters! Duh! All players have to execute on the court and especially in slams w/o a coach's help.

Oh - did I mention that two of his daughters won slams this year? ADJUST THAT! LOL!

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:17 AM
All,

Another dumb azz thread. Mr. Williams is not out there during a match when the player is supposed to execute and make adjustments. It was Venus that didn't excecute the way she hoped. Mr. Williams nor his daughters have ever had to try to cheat during a match. The sisters have been on the tour for ten and 9 years respectfully - and they've never had to look to Pops.

Besides - TWO OF HIS DAUGHTERS WON SLAMS THIS YEAR. How about that? Who ultimatley gets the credit - though? The sisters! Duh! All players have to execute on the court and especially in slams w/o a coache's help.

Oh - did I mention that two of his daughters won slams this year? ADJUST THAT! LOL!

You seemed very angry (maybe carryover from rode09 exchange), that may explain why you missed the premiss of the thread.

I am talking about this particular match, today. NOT on-court coaching, as you seem to imply. This is about making adjustment based on previous matches for Venus and Henin.

If lay people can see that Venus needed to adjust her game by working
on her forehand, first serve and footwork, the coach should have seen is as well.
And yes, everbody needs a coach, even the WS.

GogoGirl
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:19 AM
All,

And you have the right to your opinion - but why - oh - why would you bring up adjustments on how to play Henin? How do you know he didn't? What's left? Venus didn't execute? That was her job.

And besides - my opinion is that her serve was off. She had her chances even w/o a first serve. I mean - she couldn't buy one. LOL!

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2007, 12:31 AM
All,

And you have the right to your opinion - but why - oh - why would you bring up adjustments on how to play Henin? How do you know he didn't? What's left? Venus didn't execute? That was her job.

And besides - my opinion is that her serve was off. She had her chances even w/o a first serve. I mean - she couldn't buy one. LOL!

Not all adjustements necessariy related to Henin but two adjutments glaringly ovious after Venus-Jankovic
First serve
Forehand

Both were not working against Jankovic, any coach would have tried do some mini-drill to improve them as Henin might pick on them as Jankovic did.

Henin served very well in Serena's match and the speed was quiet up there. So it would not have ben a good idea for Venus to wait inside the court while Henin is serving, especially if the footwork is not that great.

I understand Venus wait inside the court all the times, but Henin is a different kind of player with plenty of confidence and does not get intimidted by Venus inisde the court.

tennisbum79
Sep 8th, 2007, 01:43 PM
bump

iPatty
Sep 8th, 2007, 01:50 PM
All,

And you have the right to your opinion - but why - oh - why would you bring up adjustments on how to play Henin? How do you know he didn't? What's left? Venus didn't execute? That was her job.

And besides - my opinion is that her serve was off. She had her chances even w/o a first serve. I mean - she couldn't buy one. LOL!

Is that you, Pureracket? LOL!!!!!

harloo
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:05 PM
Y

I am talking about this particular match, today. NOT on-court coaching, as you seem to imply. This is about making adjustment based on previous matches for Venus and Henin.

If lay people can see that Venus needed to adjust her game by working
on her forehand, first serve and footwork, the coach should have seen is as well.
And yes, everbody needs a coach, even the WS.

What previous matches are you referencing? They haven't met in over 4 years and Henin has drastically improved. Venus has to play more and meet up with Henin in non-slam events. This would take some pressure off and allow Venus to figure out what works against her.

LANGAM
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:25 PM
I think the Ws are not too concerned about how other pple are playing tactic wise. They beleive if they can bring their game on court they will prevail no matter what tactics are employed by the opponent. This has worked for them most of the times.

Tennisaddict
Sep 8th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Venus came on court with the right tactics. I believe that Richard and Oracene for that matter coached Venus very well this tournament. She just could not execute. When her first serve is not going in and she's making to many unforced errors due to fatigue you can't blame that on her coaches. She was not up for the task this time. She will be another time.

rod99
Sep 8th, 2007, 03:36 PM
I think the Ws are not too concerned about how other pple are playing tactic wise. They beleive if they can bring their game on court they will prevail no matter what tactics are employed by the opponent. This has worked for them most of the times.

that is their problem, refusing to adjust. if you don't have your A game then you need to go to a plan B and they don't have it.