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View Full Version : Anyone hear Jim Courier talk about how stupid women tennis players are?


IceHock
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:45 PM
Today while on armstrong commentating the Murray match he basicly said that women tennis players are stupid because they don't use any strategy and are basicly ball bashers, said he wishes more were like Martina Hingis, then the tour would be better.

LeRoy.
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:47 PM
ugh, could he just go away for good and please take Ted Robinson too ? :wavey:

Natalicious
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:47 PM
:weirdo:

smiler
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:48 PM
:shrug: Same old shite, the majority of comentators should just put a sock in it.

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:54 PM
coming from someone who had none :rolls:

supergrunt
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:54 PM
He must not watch it that often. Yes, the young girls are just ball-bashers, but the veterans are intelligent tennis players.

tennisfreak15150
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:55 PM
He has probably seen Vaidisova-Pennetta

sfselesfan
Aug 30th, 2007, 10:57 PM
I heard that and it pissed me off. He actually insinuated that the vast majority of the women on the tour don't have brains and just bash the ball.

Look a the F-ING MEN'S TOUR JIM! The women ACTUALLY RALLY rather than simply serve and return. The fact that their serves can be broken forces them to have deeper strategy. That's exactly why women's tennis is more entertaining. It's always been that way.

Granted, women's tennis is becoming more like men's...a power game. But men's tennis (with the exception of Rafa and Federer) is becoming even more exponentially brainless and boring. How many men can competently volley unless they get a short ball?!?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Jim Courier can kiss my @ss!

SF

supergrunt
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:04 PM
I know all they do is hit the ball back and forth with a lot of topspin really hard and then hit a stupid drop volley :banghead:

StarDuvallGrant
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Women can't catch a break. They get called out all the time, ball bashers, known for their looks and not talent. It's an ever changing game. They want more players to be like X then they say X doesn't have the tools to win, Y is great for her power, but then ball bashers are bad for the game. No one wins and it's really old.

mygirlV
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Today while on armstrong commentating the Murray match he basicly said that women tennis players are stupid because they don't use any strategy and are basicly ball bashers, said he wishes more were like Martina Hingis, then the tour would be better.
Yes, I did. When I heard it, all I could say was Shut Up. I told my husband that he just said that women tennis players were not smart, like Martina.

LudwigDvorak
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:09 PM
I cannot wait to see Sampras destroy Courier in their match here September 23rd. :)

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:10 PM
im glad they are all not like hingis. people wack their dicks harder than martina wacks the ball.

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:10 PM
I cannot wait to see Sampras destroy Courier in their match here September 23rd. :)

i wouldnt count on a destruction. sampras has almost lost to todd martin twice this year.

Darop.
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:11 PM
LMAO, he was the most mindless player of his time :tape:



He has probably seen Vaidisova-Pennetta

Even that isn't just a "ball-bashing" match.

Flavia was mixing in topspin lobs with flat shots, and even Niki who's a ball basher was playing her service games smartly...

LudwigDvorak
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:12 PM
i wouldnt count on a destruction. sampras has almost lost to todd martin twice this year.

That's the difference. Martin is a very good all-court player. Courier is a hack with a forehand. I think Sampras lost to Courier four times in their H2H?

May not be a destruction, but certainly a Sampras victory.

Rocketta
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:17 PM
I cannot wait to see Sampras destroy Courier in their match here September 23rd. :)

I got an email about that .... how much are the tickets? Shame, I can't stand either one or I'd want to go see the match. :(

bridgepea
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:20 PM
I heard him as well and I was like you ugly excuse for a human being. Man I was so mad. Right now the women's game has much more depth and talent than the men's game. The women's game has had so many different major winners, you have the up and comers, you have the veterans who are still competing. On the men's tour all you have is Federer and Nadal (and sometimes the Joker). The rest are just also-rans and never wases. Very insulting statement that he made.

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:20 PM
That's the difference. Martin is a very good all-court player. Courier is a hack with a forehand. I think Sampras lost to Courier four times in their H2H?

May not be a destruction, but certainly a Sampras victory.

of course that was never in doubt i just dont think it will be a destruction. i dont think courier was a hack. he had very good speed,fitness, forehand a effective serve in his prime and he was an all surface player. i dont think hacks win slams or make it to the finals of every grand slams. he no sampras but he's not hack i just wish he would stop talking about how cute atp players are. its a bit unsettling.

bridgepea
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:21 PM
Anybody ever notice that Sharapova has dead eyes. Her eyes do not smile at all. Even when she is happy, she just has this vacuous look in her eyes. Anyone else thinks that it is insulting that Maria is now being talked about more for the clothes that she wears rather than her game.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:21 PM
He might be under impression of Federer v Capdeville match. Sadly, there can't be such high quality and beautiful match between WTA No.1 and No.125 players.
But his words just confirms that male players don't care and know almost nothing about women's tennis.

Mightymirza
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:23 PM
I know all they do is hit the ball back and forth with a lot of topspin really hard and then hit a stupid drop volley :banghead:

coming from someone who was asking some strategies on WTAWORLD few days back :ras: Even mens game has just pure ball bashing nowadays :shrug: everyone is just hitting hard! From baseline..How many guys really serve and volley?? women atleast hav a mauresmo!

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:28 PM
I heard him as well and I was like you ugly excuse for a human being. Man I was so mad. Right now the women's game has much more depth and talent than the men's game. The women's game has had so many different major winners, you have the up and comers, you have the veterans who are still competing. On the men's tour all you have is Federer and Nadal (and sometimes the Joker). The rest are just also-rans and never wases. Very insulting statement that he made.

i dont think the womens game has more depth or talent. i like watching womens tennis but not purely for talent but for the drama. women put on far more error fests and throw in many more doubles. most of them cant volley or work their way to net and you'll never see such lopsided victories in the latter stages of a slam on such a consisently basis as you do with the womens game. the men also have more variety. that being said courier's comments were rude and uncalled for but i just cant see why anyone who know anything about tennis can say that the womens game has more talent or depth for the matter. when lower ranked women beat higher ranked women its usually because the higher ranked player played awful tennis. (ex. venus and the teenagers)

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:28 PM
coming from someone who was asking some strategies on WTAWORLD few days back :ras: Even mens game has just pure ball bashing nowadays :shrug: everyone is just hitting hard! From baseline..How many guys really serve and volley?? women atleast hav a mauresmo!

I think supergrunt was refering to men's game ;)

Mightymirza
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:32 PM
I think supergrunt was refering to men's game ;)

ahh okay..:o apologies :)

Poova
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:33 PM
The men may play better tennis and have more variety and depth, but let's face it, 95% of ATP players have as much personality as a cardboard box. There are a few exceptions though, but only a few.

Plus their Grand Slam matches are mind-numbingly boring because they go on for too long and involve boring players as already said above.

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 30th, 2007, 11:41 PM
The men may play better tennis and have more variety and depth, but let's face it, 95% of ATP players have as much personality as a cardboard box. There are a few exceptions though, but only a few.

Plus their Grand Slam matches are mind-numbingly boring because they go on for too long and involve boring players as already said above.

i agree although i dont think their tennis is boring just the personalities although feder,nadal, djokovic,and roddick all seem intersting to me. however the only true interestling atp player is davydenko.

WF4EVER
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:02 AM
It's really funny to read posts at MTF about how terrible women's tennis is and men's matches deemed to be of poor quality are called WTA matches.

What I find most funny is that men's tennis is so monotonous most of the time with the big serves and service winners. When men get broken they're basically being called sissies. It is astounding that people don't realize there are two persons in a singles match and the whole point of the match is for one player to try to get the upper hand over the other whether he/she is serving or receiving.

I agree there can be some ugly matches where people can't seem to hold their serve at all because of the stupidest UEs but on the other hand sometimes the returner influences the point just as well and is trying to win that point even though the server should have the advantage.

I suppose that means that tie-break matches must be really exciting for some people.

I like to see matches where the servers game is always contested, not for one person to be serving bombs past the other with no engaging of the ball. The rallies are what show the real endurance, ability and mental state of the players, IMO.

Donny
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:08 AM
I heard that and it pissed me off. He actually insinuated that the vast majority of the women on the tour don't have brains and just bash the ball.

Look a the F-ING MEN'S TOUR JIM! The women ACTUALLY RALLY rather than simply serve and return. The fact that their serves can be broken forces them to have deeper strategy. That's exactly why women's tennis is more entertaining. It's always been that way.

Granted, women's tennis is becoming more like men's...a power game. But men's tennis (with the exception of Rafa and Federer) is becoming even more exponentially brainless and boring. How many men can competently volley unless they get a short ball?!?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Jim Courier can kiss my @ss!

SF

Riiight.

Let's examine the men's top ten for a moment:

Federer
Nadal
Djokovic
Davydenko
Roddick
Blake
Gonzalez
Robredo
Berdych
Haas


The only players with what I would call "great" serves capable of getting lots of free points on a regular basis are Federer and Roddick, and Berdych. The other guys lack either power or consistency. And three of those guys (Nadal, Davydenko, Robredo) have below average serves.


Now let's look at the women's top ten.

Henin
Sharapova
Jankovic
Kuznetsova
Ivanovic
Chakvetadze
Mauresmo
Petrova
Williams
Bartoli

That's six good or great servers.

Yes, most women on the tour can't serve or return well. That just means that those who can end up running roughshod over the lower ranked players.

Morrissey
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:11 AM
Well Courier is a homosexual and some homosexuals are indeed anti women. There are plenty of ATP TOUR players that are ball bashers too.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:17 AM
Today while on armstrong commentating the Murray match he basicly said that women tennis players are stupid because they don't use any strategy and are basicly ball bashers, said he wishes more were like Martina Hingis, then the tour would be better.
Anyone think Jim Courier is trying to hustle a "Battle of The Sexes" match?

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:19 AM
Well Courier is a homosexual and some homosexuals are indeed anti women. There are plenty of ATP TOUR players that are ball bashers too.

i disagree the days of atp ball basher is ending its all about the moonballers now.

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:20 AM
Anyone think Jim Courier is trying to hustle a "Battle of The Sexes" match?

it would never happen. i dont think any female woud be brave enough to agree to face an male player and im not sure any male player would have the guts to go out and double bagel a female player.

starin
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:34 AM
well Courier is prone to making dumb comments and making a fool of himself. But I suspect that this is an attitude that many pro male players take.
plus Courier has no interest in women he's too busy commenting on how nice and tight and white the young male player's pants are.

Jakeev
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:36 AM
Considering there are dozens of "mindless" men's players on tour, I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.....

Expat
Aug 31st, 2007, 12:45 AM
the quality of mens tennis is definitely better
but none as exciting as watching the williams sisters in their theatrics

switz
Aug 31st, 2007, 01:15 AM
we all know Courier doesn't like women ;)

still i can't say i disagree with him in general

sfselesfan
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:09 PM
The only entertaining (heady) male player other than the top two (Fed and Rafa) that was left in the draw lost last night...Santoro. Now all we have to look forward to is service, return, service, return, ad nauseum. The only place to see rallies is the women's game...well, unless you're Jim Courier.

Jim needs to STFU!

SF

Donny
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:12 PM
The only entertaining (heady) male player other than the top two (Fed and Rafa) that was left in the draw lost last night...Santoro. Now all we have to look forward to is service, return, service, return, ad nauseum. The only place to see rallies is the women's game...well, unless you're Jim Courier.

Jim needs to STFU!

SF

It makes me chuckle to see a fellow Williams sister fan bemoan "service, return, service, return, ad nauseum."

Did you see the AO 07 final?

SharapovaFan16
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:21 PM
sorry guys but the quality of men's tennis is 10 times better than that of women's. all the females do is bash the hell out of the ball, so where was he wrong in that comment? Most women on tour do not construct points as well as they should. Maria being one of those players, just like Serena, Venus... blah blah blah. Hit is as hard as you can and if it comes back hit the bitch harder.

Max565
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:53 PM
Women are boring ballbashers. Men are mindless moonballers. :p :angel:

clementine
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:57 PM
Today while on armstrong commentating the Murray match he basicly said that women tennis players are stupid because they don't use any strategy and are basicly ball bashers, said he wishes more were like Martina Hingis, then the tour would be better.
Jim Courier is my hero.

ToeTag
Aug 31st, 2007, 03:58 PM
The only place to see rallies is the women's game. That used to be true but not anymore. You want rallies watch men's tennis.With some exceptions.

sorry guys but the quality of men's tennis is 10 times better than that of women's. all the females do is bash the hell out of the ball, so where was he wrong in that comment? Most women on tour do not construct points as well as they should. Maria being one of those players, just like Serena, Venus... blah blah blah. Hit is as hard as you can and if it comes back hit the bitch harder.Exactly. Some exceptions, but largely true. :sad:

Ntour
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:23 PM
i think they really are just confusing the whole wta with maria sharapova

seriously its jsut hit corner to corner until she gets a short ball then puts it away it is sooo boring

Tennisstar86
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:30 PM
It makes me chuckle to see a fellow Williams sister fan bemoan "service, return, service, return, ad nauseum."

Did you see the AO 07 final?

lol... we cant help it maria couldnt keep up...

sorry guys but the quality of men's tennis is 10 times better than that of women's. all the females do is bash the hell out of the ball, so where was he wrong in that comment? Most women on tour do not construct points as well as they should. Maria being one of those players, just like Serena, Venus... blah blah blah. Hit is as hard as you can and if it comes back hit the bitch harder.

I have to disagree here.... With the exception of djokovic/ federer/ nadal most of the mens matches arent entertaining at all.... There have been some great rallies in these first round womens matches and the heavy hitters arent even playing each other yet.....

sfselesfan
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:35 PM
I forgot Stepanek...he's entertaining in addition to Santoro.

You people act like the men aren't out there trying to hit every ball as hard as they can or something. Whatever.

donny, you can't judge the entire women's game on GS finals.

If you can't see that the women rally much longer than the men, and break serve more often...then there's nothing further that can be said.

SF

husse
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:45 PM
I never thought Id be sticking up for Sharapova, but you guys sometimes underappreciate her.

What you see as ballbashing, is calculated strokes to win points. Ballbashers are those who hit as hard as they can, without knowing where the ball will land.

I admit when her play isnt working, she looks like a ballbasher.
But the girl would not be Nr 2, if all she knew was hit hard.

Ive even seen her hit drop volleys( its rare), that amazingly was hit real delicately.

Donny
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:48 PM
I forgot Stepanek...he's entertaining in addition to Santoro.

You people act like the men aren't out there trying to hit every ball as hard as they can or something. Whatever.

donny, you can't judge the entire women's game on GS finals.

If you can't see that the women rally much longer than the men, and break serve more often...then there's nothing further that can be said.

SF

Why does that equal a better match? Right now, on USA, Djokovic and Stepanek are playing. Not a SINGLE break point the whole match, yet it's one of the best matches of the tournie.

gaggleguy
Aug 31st, 2007, 04:52 PM
don't discount Jim Courier's analysis just because he is a queer. He knows a lot about tennis, he was #1 in the world.

CJ07
Aug 31st, 2007, 05:34 PM
I think he laments the fact that most women can't serve or get through a match without hitting error after error. Also, men's tennis is much (much) more difficult because everyone can hit hard, run fast, and serve well. Thats why their matches are so much closer because the depth is so much greater.

Anyone in the top 200 can beat anyone else when they're truly on their game (with the exeception of the two 2/3). You certainly CANNOT say that about the women's tour.

Volcana
Aug 31st, 2007, 05:36 PM
coming from someone who had none :rolls:
Coming from somebody who won four slams.You people act like the men aren't out there trying to hit every ball as hard as they can.They aren't. They use a lot more speed variation, and more spin, than the women do. Most of that's just physiological. When you have more massive wrists, it's easier to impart more spin. And when you're bigger, all other things being equal, you can make the ball go faster, which means you can vary speed more.it would never happen. i dont think any female woud be brave enough to agree to face an male playerYou never heard of Margaret Court or Billie Jean King?

Volcana
Aug 31st, 2007, 05:52 PM
There's a lot of over reaction in this thread. He didn't say women didn't HAVE brains. He said they didn't USE them. And there's something to that, the male-female comparision aside. A lot of today's baseline tennis is just 1) Hit it hard 2) try to hit it deep 3) go from corner to corner; and wiat to see who makes an error first. There isn't even an attempt to get the other player out of position.

And for those of you trying to discredit Courier, give it up. He's more than earned the cred from his playing days, and he gets to watch more tennis than we do. He gets to watch more women's tennis than we do. He gets paid to do it. He's got access to way more tape than us. There's actual preparation involved in being a tennis announcer. (I know I know it doesn't seem that way, but trust me.) And there are plenty of people who want his job if he doesn't do it well.

If you disagree with him, fine. But saying he 'doesn't know anything' about tennis just discredits YOU.

Tennisstar86
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:01 PM
There's a lot of over reaction in this thread. He didn't say women didn't HAVE brains. He said they didn't USE them. And there's something to that, the male-female comparision aside. A lot of today's baseline tennis is just 1) Hit it hard 2) try to hit it deep 3) go from corner to corner; and wiat to see who makes an error first. There isn't even an attempt to get the other player out of position.

If you disagree with him, fine. But saying he 'doesn't know anything' about tennis just discredits YOU.

I disagree with this statement....I mean is he excluding the top players? Because if it were the case Justine would not be the queen of Clay and Venus would not be the queen of grass.... You wouldnt hear Venus talking about trying to get to net more on grass. Or the annnouncers wouldnt say Serena's serve is the best on tour because of how well she places it..... Clearly if Jistine were just hitting the ball she wouldnt have won 4 majors.....
Moving poeple out of posistions clearly the best way to do that is to stretch them.... then go behind them.... or get to the net... I dont know how else you expect them to construct points without that... The only shot that id say the men hit that isnt used often in the womens game is the backhand slice.... it seems to only be utilized by one handed backhanders...but to say they dont contruct points is nieve at best...

CJ07
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:06 PM
I disagree with this statement....I mean is he excluding the top players? Because if it were the case Justine would not be the queen of Clay and Venus would not be the queen of grass.... You wouldnt hear Venus talking about trying to get to net more on grass. Or the annnouncers wouldnt say Serena's serve is the best on tour because of how well she places it..... Clearly if Jistine were just hitting the ball she wouldnt have won 4 majors.....
Moving poeple out of posistions clearly the best way to do that is to stretch them.... then go behind them.... or get to the net... I dont know how else you expect them to construct points without that... The only shot that id say the men hit that isnt used often in the womens game is the backhand slice.... it seems to only be utilized by one handed backhanders...but to say they dont contruct points is nieve at best...
a lot of women players don't. the worse thing is though, is that there are VERY few women who don't have huge holes in their games (i.e. serve).

The fact that Dementieva has a recreational player's serve should be embarrassing to the tour.

terjw
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:11 PM
Coming from somebody who won four slams.

:yeah:
Exactly. I didn't hear it so I'm not commenting on what I'm getting here second hand. From the sound of this second hand info I'd disagree with him. Sounds like he's just not into women's tennis - like a zillion other people.

But his credentials as a player shouldn't be in question. I remember back in the days when Agassi was a brat - and much to my delight Courier fought hard to beat him to win his first a slam at the FO in '91. I also remember some of his superhuman efforts in the Davis Cup with Todd Martin - putting his heath at risk and way beyond the call of duty. His character as a player was something to be proud of.

Those posts deriding him as a person and a player says more about the person making them than Jim Courier.

CoolDude7
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:12 PM
Women's matches have more errors because they hit so flat!Today in wta you have to be a skilled moonballer like Momo to win slams with that style. Players on the wta can eat moonballs for breakfast. So a lot of players have adapted to hitting it flat, which means more errors!

CoolDude7
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:14 PM
Women play a similiar style to blake.. very close to the net. You will notice, usually he will have a lot of errors in his matches. The women play low risk tennis

gaggleguy
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:16 PM
You never heard of Margaret Court or Billie Jean King?




that you need to go back almost 40 years to find these women, works more against your point than for it...

sfselesfan
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:17 PM
don't discount Jim Courier's analysis just because he is a queer. He knows a lot about tennis, he was #1 in the world.

Stepanek is an anomoly on the men's tour, as I've already mentioned.

SF

AcesHigh
Aug 31st, 2007, 06:35 PM
The fact that Dementieva has a recreational player's serve should be embarrassing to the tour.

Oh please :rolleyes: , Dementieva has fallen from the ranks and if I'm not mistaken, Guillermo Coria couldnt serve either and was still a slam finalist and TMS winner.

alexia1huff
Aug 31st, 2007, 07:35 PM
He has probably seen Vaidisova-Pennetta THIS WAS NO BALL BASHING, ball bashing is hitting the shots hit or mix 100% power, while here pennetta couldn't even do that cause she run so so much and it's not her game. They didn't hit full out they played a lot of angles

sfselesfan
Aug 31st, 2007, 07:44 PM
He's just a mindless a-hole who resents the power game because it put him out of business (see Sampras).

SF

Donny
Aug 31st, 2007, 08:19 PM
He's just a mindless a-hole who resents the power game because it put him out of business (see Sampras).

SF

Courier basically patented the inside out forehand. I'd acctually consider him more of a power player than Sampras.

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:20 PM
He's just a mindless a-hole who resents the power game because it put him out of business (see Sampras).

SF

courier was a power player. he hit the ball pretty hard on the forehand. he pratically invented the method of running around the forehand for players with shitty backhands (a la roddick,moya,andreev and so many other current pros). the only thing that put him out of business was his own body. speed and fitness was a big part of him game (hewitt,nadal) and eventually his body burned out and his fitness as well as his results declined. what i dont get is how he is talking about ball bashing because he wasnt exactly a master at constructing point. he just dominating points with the forehand and outgrinded his opponents.

Steffica Greles
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:28 PM
But it's true. It is.

It never used to be, and was more true of the men ten years ago. But it's DAMN true now.

There are only a handful of exceptions I'll make to that rule: Hingis, Henin (to some degree), Chakvetadze, and that's it of those that spring to mind.

Donny
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:30 PM
But it's true. It is.

It never used to be, and was more true of the men ten years ago. But it's DAMN true now.

There are only a handful of exceptions I'll make to that rule: Hingis, Henin (to some degree), Chakvetadze, and that's it of those that spring to mind.

Chakvedatze is just a ball basher who can't hot as hard.

Kart
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:38 PM
I didn't hear the exact quote but if he did imply that womens' tennis was all 'ballbashing' as the thread starter said it's a statement dripping with irony seeing that if Courier made any impact on mens tennis it would have been along the same lines.

Of course, he's still right - the women do lack strategy. The way Martina Hingis plays these days, she's no exception either.

Shinjiro
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:41 PM
he should watch cornet jankovic...

Seenus
Aug 31st, 2007, 10:45 PM
i dont think the womens game has more depth or talent. i like watching womens tennis but not purely for talent but for the drama. women put on far more error fests and throw in many more doubles. most of them cant volley or work their way to net and you'll never see such lopsided victories in the latter stages of a slam on such a consisently basis as you do with the womens game. the men also have more variety.
Lopsided scores are themselves evidence of skill. In the men's game Federer will likely have the most lopsided scores right down to the finals. Courier complains that the women paint the lines and bash the ball. Federer tries to do that. Keeping the ball in play with dainty tennis and avoiding unforced errors will occasionally produce exciting points but that has little to do with skill. And like Martina Hingis wont hack it. Keeping opponents off balance with aggressive stroke play is a great skill that women must also learn to defend against.
If sharopova played like Martina Hingis she might still win but the scores would be much closer.
It was ironic that Courier made his remarks during one of the most boring matches yet: an always boring Andy Murray against some other boring player.

Seenus
Aug 31st, 2007, 10:53 PM
I didn't hear the exact quote but if he did imply that womens' tennis was all 'ballbashing' as the thread starter said it's a statement dripping with irony seeing that if Courier made any impact on mens tennis it would have been along the same lines.

Of course, he's still right - the women do lack strategy. The way Martina Hingis plays these days, she's no exception either.
Every woman on the tour can play "strategy" tennis. They are just not allowed to most of the time. Courier held up Martina as an example!

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 31st, 2007, 11:02 PM
Lopsided scores are themselves evidence of skill. In the men's game Federer will likely have the most lopsided scores right down to the finals. Courier complains that the women paint the lines and bash the ball. Federer tries to do that. Keeping the ball in play with dainty tennis and avoiding unforced errors will occasionally produce exciting points but that has little to do with skill. And like Martina Hingis wont hack it. Keeping opponents off balance with aggressive stroke play is a great skill that women must also learn to defend against.
If sharopova played like Martina Hingis she might still win but the scores would be much closer.
It was ironic that Courier made his remarks during one of the most boring matches yet: an always boring Andy Murray against some other boring player.

in each of those lopsided victories except wimbledon teh losing opponent played terrible. had maria and ana played well they still wouldve lost but it wouldved a lot closer imo. the rg finals was especially awful regarding ana's level of play. i felt sorry for her and i dont even like her her. federer doesnt beat people in the last 2 or 3 rnd of a slam 6-2,6-2 or 6-2,6-1,6-1. if u honestly think women are more talented as far as tennis goes then you must not know much about the sport. and i dont think sharapova should play like hingis. i like the way sharapova plays. i didnt agree with waht courier said. i dont think women are just ball bashers i just dont agree with a poster who said women players are more talented than men and this is based on what ive seen it has nothing to do with me being a man. that siad i sometimes find womens matches more interesting even if the quality is lower and from a tennis standpoint the murray match was high quality through out and fun to wtach. if only i liked andy murray i may have enjoyed it more.

BK4ever
Aug 31st, 2007, 11:13 PM
He was just mouthing off again about womens tennis..he obviously has some kind of issue..I guess he is mad that we get all the boys he is lusting after ;)

CoolDude7
Aug 31st, 2007, 11:27 PM
Whenever the men make silly errors,they usually say,"He over thought that shot"! When the women make errors,"They are playing sloppy tennis etc"! In reality, everyone make mistakes in tennis!

husse
Aug 31st, 2007, 11:56 PM
in each of those lopsided victories except wimbledon teh losing opponent played terrible. had maria and ana played well they still wouldve lost but it wouldved a lot closer imo. the rg finals was especially awful regarding ana's level of play. i felt sorry for her and i dont even like her her. federer doesnt beat people in the last 2 or 3 rnd of a slam 6-2,6-2 or 6-2,6-1,6-1. if u honestly think women are more talented as far as tennis goes then you must not know much about the sport. and i dont think sharapova should play like hingis. i like the way sharapova plays. i didnt agree with waht courier said. i dont think women are just ball bashers i just dont agree with a poster who said women players are more talented than men and this is based on what ive seen it has nothing to do with me being a man. that siad i sometimes find womens matches more interesting even if the quality is lower and from a tennis standpoint the murray match was high quality through out and fun to wtach. if only i liked andy murray i may have enjoyed it more.

Every mens player, besides Roger, are Ballbashers.
Most men hit no slices, Endless rallies with no purpose, safely in the middle of the court, til one of them makes an error. That is if the rally even starts.
If you saw semifinal and quarters, you would know Ana had a plan against her opponents. In her first final at a grand slam, a 19 year-old can get nervous.

kinglear
Sep 1st, 2007, 12:24 AM
Today while on armstrong commentating the Murray match he basicly said that women tennis players are stupid because they don't use any strategy and are basicly ball bashers, said he wishes more were like Martina Hingis, then the tour would be better.


Did he forget about Chakvetadze, Radwanska, Henin and Jankovic.:rolleyes: Plus, from what I remember Jim Courier was not much of a tactical player himself. He was pretty much a ball-basher...now Agassi, he was a strategic player.

Andrew Laeddis
Sep 1st, 2007, 12:29 AM
Every mens player, besides Roger, are Ballbashers.
Most men hit no slices, Endless rallies with no purpose, safely in the middle of the court, til one of them makes an error. That is if the rally even starts.
If you saw semifinal and quarters, you would know Ana had a plan against her opponents. In her first final at a grand slam, a 19 year-old can get nervous.

actually no. the men have a variety of finese players,volley players,ball basher, and moonballers. but i dont think there are really any top players on either side atp or wta who are just ball bashers. you dont get into the top 50 or 20 if u can construct points. just because u dont dispaly finese doesnt mean u arent thinking on court.

Volcana
Sep 1st, 2007, 12:56 AM
Every mens player, besides Roger, are Ballbashers.
Most men hit no slices, Endless rallies with no purpose, safely in the middle of the court, til one of them makes an error. That is if the rally even starts.
Every person who watched USA's coverage of the men today is saying 'you're lying'.

Tommy Robredo, Mardy Fish, Radek Stepanek, Novak Djokovic, every single one of those guys sliced, and sliced often. It works better in men's tennis because they generate so much more spin, keeping the ball low, so the opponent has to hit up, giving the slicer a better chance at a winer on their next shot.

Oh and let's include, cause I've actually seen it, Ivan Ljubicic, Juan Ignacio Chela, Xavier Malisse, David Nalbandian, Carlos Moya, James Blake (at least in his last two matches), Tommy Haas, Sebastien Grosjean, Mikhail Youzhny, Richard Gasquet, Donald Young, Guillermo Canas, Marcos Baghdatis, Max Mirnyi, Andy Murray.

If you don't watch men's tennis, just say so. But don't write things that are patently untrue and expect the rest of us to just let it go.

ASP0315
Sep 1st, 2007, 01:08 AM
Jim courier was out of line saying that comment.(he could said many wta players nowadays are ball bashers. :lol: i would agree with him then.)
I'm a big fan of Jim though

With the exception of Williams sisters, Henin,jankovic, hingis and some other wta pros etc, The women's game in general is quite boring to watch. Look the one sided fests at French open. really horrible.
Also some top twenty players in wta like hantuchova, petrova, golovin, safina etc . doesn't really doesn't have any game plan or anything and simply go for broke.

At the same time some mens matches are also digusting in quality but not in scoreline. Mens do have some back up plans in case the orginal plan doesn't work.
Most of the errors mens make are forced.

I enjoy ace fests.(which are way better to watch and also it will be a challening to weather a particular player can get broken or not.) rather than some boring wta match,(where all you can see 1000 breaks of serves, 1000 errors and 1000 winners.)

That said serena vs zvonareva match is very exiting. i finally felt like watching some competition in wta. :)
hopefully other women will step up and show the world that wta is competitive.

Andrew Laeddis
Sep 1st, 2007, 01:09 AM
Every person who watched USA's coverage of the men today is saying 'you're lying'.

Tommy Robredo, Mardy Fish, Radek Stepanek, Novak Djokovic, every single one of those guys sliced, and sliced often. It works better in men's tennis because they generate so much more spin, keeping the ball low, so the opponent has to hit up, giving the slicer a better chance at a winer on their next shot.

Oh and let's include, cause I've actually seen it, Ivan Ljubicic, Juan Ignacio Chela, Xavier Malisse, David Nalbandian, Carlos Moya, James Blake (at least in his last two matches), Tommy Haas, Sebastien Grosjean, Mikhail Youzhny, Richard Gasquet, Donald Young, Guillermo Canas, Marcos Baghdatis, Max Mirnyi, Andy Murray.

If you don't watch men's tennis, just say so. But don't write things that are patently untrue and expect the rest of us to just let it go.


agreed. there have been some excellent matches in the mens early rounds. the djokovic match today was of teh highest quality. it including slicing,volleying and baseline hitting.