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Marcell
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:12 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08272007/sports/it_s_about_time.htm


IT’S ABOUT TIME
RICHARD WILLIAMS: USTA WAITED TOO LONG FOR GIBSON NIGHT
By MARC BERMAN
ALTHEA GIBSON
August 27, 2007 -- Richard Williams’ daughters, Serena and Venus, will play back-to-back first-round matches as a symbolic part of tonight’s 50th anniversary tribute to Althea Gibson winning the U.S. Open.

However, the outspoken Richard Williams ripped the USTA for paying attention to Gibson’s pioneering achievements too late, leaving opening night at Ashe Stadium empty in his eyes.

“I don’t think the USTA thought about Althea when she was alive,” Richard Williams told The Post yesterday. “It doesn’t mean anything. If she meant so much, they would’ve been interested in her when she was alive. It’s very wrong they didn’t do anything for her then. How come a black only becomes a hero after death. I think it’s ludicrous. It doesn’t make up for it.”

Gibson passed away in 2003 at the age of 76, a recluse, dying frail and penniless. In fairness, the USTA tried to get Gibson to attend the Open in 1997 when Venus Williams made history by reaching her first Open final in her debut. Gibson was said to be too embarrassed because of her failing health and appearance. The USTA also reached out in 2002 for her 75th birthday and was rebuffed.

“There were two times we looked to provide Althea with honors, but because of her health concerns, we couldn’t work out such a tribute,” USTA public relations vice president Chris Widmaier said. “Monday night certainly will be memorable.”

Gibson broke the color barrier in tennis, and it has been 10 years since Venus arrived on the scene with her braids and launched to the final. Both Williams sisters credit Gibson as being their inspiration and Richard Williams said he did not speak for his daughters.

Serena and Venus have come as close to dominating women’s tennis this millennium as anyone.


Serena (seeded eighth) and Venus (sixth) have combined to win 14 Grand Slams. CBS lead analyst Mary Carillo seemed off-key last week when she undervalued the Williams’ legacy, feeling they underachieved, saying she thought they’d, “change tennis history.” and “be more insistent about it.”

They still are changing tennis history - the two sisters who grew up playing on the cracked Compton, Calif., courts. Obviously, the Carillo remark didn’t sit well with Richard Williams.

“When she played tennis, she didn’t do nothing,” he said. “She talks a lot.

“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”

Without a formal tennis-teaching background, Richard Williams raised two stars who are as bright and well-rounded off the court as they are fighters on the court.

When Richard Williams took them as young girls to well-known tennis coach Richard Macci, he looked at Venus and said, “You have the next Michael Jordan.” Richard Williams corrected him, saying he had “the next two Michael Jordans.”

The knock on the Williams sisters is they’ve been oft-injured, sometimes lacked enthusiasm and have taken too many layoffs. But they’ve each one a Slam this year, Serena the Australian, Venus Wimbledon.

Seeded eighth, Serena hasn’t played since Wimbledon because of a left-thumb injury. No. 12 Venus has played one tournament since capturing her fourth Wimbledon. And yet they have as good a shot as any of reaching the final in their lopsidedly harsh side of the draw.

“I think there’s a lot of players who can win,” Serena Williams said. “Obviously I want it to be me. I’m thinking it’s going to be me.”

Five of the top six contenders - the Williams sisters, Justine Henin, Serbians Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic - are on one side of the draw, with Maria Sharapova on the other.

marc.berman@nypost.com

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:30 PM
At least he will spark debate. Not sure if the USTA didn't think about Gibson when she was alive, but Richard is pretty spot on about the mark Venus and Serena have left on the game.


I hate the fact that they keep lumping Venus w/Serena. AnnaKforever, had a thread that showed Venus actually has played more than Justine from 02- to present. I guess I should be happy they didn't lump Chanda Rubin, or Jamea Jackson in w/them as well.

Slutiana
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:34 PM
:lol: richard



Five of the top six contenders - the Williams sisters, Justine Henin, Serbians Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic - are on one side of the draw, with Maria Sharapova on the other.


lool that is gonna be on every USO 2007 Article

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:34 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08272007/sports/it_s_about_time.htm


“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.” [/B]

marc.berman@nypost.com

...I guess "modesty" isn't part of Jehova's Witness' beliefs...wouldn't it be boring without richard?
But his constant race remarks have become quite annoying lately: "blacks can't win..blablaba...yes, that's why V & S gain millions of bucks off the court, are on every cover, advertising, talk show etc.....:tape:

Shepster
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:38 PM
“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself.
...
What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”
...
When Richard Williams took them as young girls to well-known tennis coach Richard Macci, he looked at Venus and said, “You have the next Michael Jordan.” Richard Williams corrected him, saying he had “the next two Michael Jordans.”
Absolutely... :worship:
Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport.
:spit: Ridiculous. He apparantly has never heard of Billie Jean King.

Infiniti2001
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:40 PM
Richard Williams is not and has never been a Jehovah's witness :rolleyes: Meanwhile, while I don't share some of his sentiments re race-- I can appreciate his stance considering when and where he grew up in the U.S.

Marcell
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:43 PM
Being modest can only get you so far. If he was modest, his daughters wouldn't have accomplished as much as they did. Richard have fought the USTA for a long time.If anyone has the inside information on them it's Richard.

SerenaVee_Fan
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:43 PM
I love Richard Williams. He is never boring.

nhissan
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:48 PM
...I guess "modesty" isn't part of Jehova's Witness' beliefs...wouldn't it be boring without richard?
But his constant race remarks have become quite annoying lately: "blacks can't win..blablaba...yes, that's why V & S gain millions of bucks off the court, are on every cover, advertising, talk show etc.....:tape:

F*ck off

You don't live in the US so obviously you don't know anything about the race problems they might have.

GoDominique
Aug 27th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Like daughter, like father. :o

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:00 PM
Like daughter, like father. :o

Makes no sense:help:

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:01 PM
F*ck off

You don't live in the US so obviously you don't know anything about the race problems they might have.


i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:05 PM
...I guess "modesty" isn't part of Jehova's Witness' beliefs...wouldn't it be boring without richard?
But his constant race remarks have become quite annoying lately: "blacks can't win..blablaba...yes, that's why V & S gain millions of bucks off the court, are on every cover, advertising, talk show etc.....:tape:

A better question might be why do you take them so personally? Ask yourself that.

Oh and you don't have to share your answer w/us, i'm sure it's personal.:tape:

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Richard Williams is not and has never been a Jehovah's witness :rolleyes: Meanwhile, while I don't share some of his sentiments re race-- I can appreciate his stance considering when and where he grew up in the U.S.

I agree with that, he prob had to go through a lot of shit, no doubt about it!
but what i dislike about his comments is that it sounds like it s still the 50s and nothing has changed, while his daughters (and himself) make tons of money OFF COURT being accepted and apreciated etc...So this whole generalization "blacks can't win.." isn't right imo espcially considering their stardom!

supergrunt
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Richard :worship:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:14 PM
I agree with that, he prob had to go through a lot of shit, no doubt about it!
but what i dislike about his comments is that it sounds like it s still the 50s and nothing has changed, while his daughters (and himself) make tons of money OFF COURT being accepted and apreciated etc...So this whole generalization "blacks can't win.." isn't right imo espcially considering their stardom!

Get back w/us after you've completed your African Americans studies program, you've got a ways to go.

darice
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:17 PM
...I guess "modesty" isn't part of Jehova's Witness' beliefs...wouldn't it be boring without richard?
But his constant race remarks have become quite annoying lately: "blacks can't win..blablaba...yes, that's why V & S gain millions of bucks off the court, are on every cover, advertising, talk show etc.....:tape:

actually what richard meant was that in the u.s. even when black ppl succeed they still can't win cause ppl (in this case) will still try to find sth to hate on rena+vee about. like they work hard and get to 4 straight gs finals. instead of praising them for that haters will say that the finals are boring blah blah. that's why richard is mad about what mary c said but to me as a rena fan it wasn't that bad what mary c said. yeah she hates on them a lot but they def. could get in better shape and they totally shoulda won more slams but i'm not complaining!! i'm just greedy cause i want rena to have the most slams. :angel:

Infiniti2001
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:17 PM
I agree with that, he prob had to go through a lot of shit, no doubt about it!
but what i dislike about his comments is that it sounds like it s still the 50s and nothing has changed, while his daughters (and himself) make tons of money OFF COURT being accepted and apreciated etc...So this whole generalization "blacks can't win.." isn't right imo espcially considering their stardom!

Making tons of money off court means nothing when sentiments have not changed. Naomi Campbell recently launched her campaign to get more black models on magazine covers even though she is by far the most successful black model today. Should she just shut up , because she's making tons of money?

slydevil6142
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:19 PM
i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:


1) I LIVE in the US
2) I studied here all my life
3) I am black

.... I dont like the fact that richard talks about race so much but the fact of the matter is he grew up in the deep south during the 40s. Many of us are far too young to know exactly what went on but lets say it wasnt so nice. My grandmother who is the sweetest women you will ever meet still to this day walks on egg shells when talking to white people. It was engrained in their daily living and Im not sure I can truly fault Richard for what american society created in the first place.

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:21 PM
Richard is just speaking the truth about Mary Carillo. Well done Richard.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:24 PM
i am asian and in the US i have faced racism from both african americans and whites
i just shrug them off and continue doing my work its no big deal
he is a great coach and father but is he the right person to speak about racism ?
i sometimes wish the williams sisters would just concentrate on tennis and shut up the detractors by playing a full schedule
and helping the WTA tour
althea gibson was right let your racket do the talking
thats the philosophy i have w.r.t racism at the workplace
make them acknowledge you in spite of their hate against you
ps: i am a proud williams sisters fan for life and and very proud of their achievements

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:25 PM
actually what richard meant was that in the u.s. even when black ppl succeed they still can't win cause ppl (in this case) will still try to find sth to hate on rena+vee about. like they work hard and get to 4 straight gs finals. instead of praising them for that haters will say that the finals are boring blah blah. that's why richard is mad about what mary c said but to me as a rena fan it wasn't that bad what mary c said. yeah she hates on them a lot but they def. could get in better shape and they totally shoulda won more slams but i'm not complaining!! i'm just greedy cause i want rena to have the most slams. :angel:

The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

supergrunt
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:26 PM
He just summed up everything that the commentators and the USTA have been getting away with for years... but no one said anything, except for the outspoken yet highly intelligent individuals *such as myself* on WTAWORLD :)

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:27 PM
I am glad Serena is following in her father's footsteps and standing up for herself as well. For years Serena has been silent to this disgusting criticism but not anymore. Serena's had enough of that.

supergrunt
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:27 PM
i am asian and in the US i have faced racism from both african americans and whites
i just shrug them off and continue doing my work its no big deal
he is a great coach and father but is he the right person to speak about racism ?
i sometimes wish the williams sisters would just concentrate on tennis and shut up the detractors by playing a full schedule
and helping the WTA tour
althea gibson was right let your racket do the talking
thats the philosophy i have w.r.t racism at the workplace
make them acknowledge you in spite of their hate against you
ps: i am a proud williams sisters fan for life and and very proud of their achievements

did the Williams sisters say anything?

misael
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:27 PM
Mary Carrillo is annoying ,she laughts at her own jokes.Richard is wrong about Athea Gibson,The USTA tried to honor her twice in her lifetime,but Athea declined both times.I like Richard,sometimes he's right, and sometimes you have to take what he's saying with a grain of salt.HE sure is entertaining.

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:29 PM
I just think it's stupid.
Serena said what she thought of what Mary Carillo said days ago.
She doesn't need Daddy to defend her, she did a better job than he did.
She's a grown ass women.

The USTA did try to reach out to Althea but I don't feel it was more than enough especially when many people when they found out about Althea took money out of their pockets to help her.

At the same time, Richard goes about his way to make it seem like the USTA did nothing.
He always takes a situation and blows it out of proportion.

I can't and won't respect someone who does that.

Apoleb
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:31 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

Very true.

I think what Mary said is extremely stupid and she definitely deserves the responses she got from Serena and some of those of Richard. But to be accused of racism is pushing it A LOT, and like I said in a previous post, it trivializes such an important issue like racism.

Again, I'm dissapointed by Richard's remarks, bringing race everytime he gets an opportunity to, whether justified or not.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Very true.

I think what Mary said is extremely stupid and she definitely deserves the responses she got from Serena and some of those of Richard.

But then again, I'm dissapointed by Richard's remarks, bringing race everytime he gets an opportunity to, whether justified or not.
so true
mary carillo may be stupid
but not everything is about race otherwise tiger woods wouldnt be so loved by all americans

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:34 PM
Race is a factor in American life and people intelligent enough can discern that Carillo's constant negativity against the Williams Sisters is racially motivated. Of course, Richard is going to defend his daughters Venus and Serena ANY PARENT WOULD. Carillo has been making these mean spirited comments for the past 10 YEARS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Carillo's baseless and vindicitive comments should NOT be ignored. Carillo is the the one that thinks she can say whatever she wants about the Williams Sisters because they are young black women. Well she's wrong she cannot. And I am glad Serena and Richard put her right back into her place.

The USTA didn't try hard enough when Gibson was alive to respect her. So the USTA waits until the woman is dead to pay tribute to her? This tribute should of taken place over 20 years ago. And if you read books on Gibson you would KNOW what she thinks of the USTA.

Kart
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:35 PM
I hate the fact that they keep lumping Venus w/Serena. AnnaKforever, had a thread that showed Venus actually has played more than Justine from 02- to present. I guess I should be happy they didn't lump Chanda Rubin, or Jamea Jackson in w/them as well.

I don't much care for the fact that they're treated as one entity either.

To be fair though, they never stop raving about each other and how much each of them influences one another so they do partly court it.

GoDominique
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:35 PM
The USTA didn't try hard enough when Gibson was alive to respect her. So the USTA waits until the woman is dead to pay tribute to her? This tribute should of taken place over 20 years ago. And if you read books on Gibson you would KNOW what she thinks of the USTA.
Agreed!!! Only solution: Stop this farce and cancel this tribute thing right now!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery:

darice
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:38 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

oh i totally agree that sometimes the criticisms of my fav's have nothing to do with race but if you think like that all the time then you're totally ignoring the times when rena+vee are being bagged on or being criticized cause they're black. i remember after rena won the open the first time that my mom cut out this article from the times. in it the writer wrote that rena "loves to show off her vocabulary". my mom told me and my brother that she wondered if rena was white if the writer would've written that cause the writer was acting like "who does this black girl think she is?". it does make you wonder when things like that are said about rena+vee. would you consistently bag on a white player for the things that rena+vee are always bagged on? ppl aren't always honest when it comes to answering that and it's the dbl standard that makes rena+vee fans really mad.

Kart
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:38 PM
As for Richard, well he's always ranting about something.

I stopped listening years ago.

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I am glad Serena is following in her father's footsteps and standing up for herself as well. For years Serena has been silent to this disgusting criticism but not anymore. Serena's had enough of that.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Serena has always stood up for herself when critics have said something about her.
This is not something all of a sudden new.
She's been doing this for over 5 years.

She doesn't have the personality to just be quiet, she's never had it.
You have no idea who Serena is obviously because she's not silent when it comes to these criticism.
Never has. Never will.

That's why I respect her but at least she's not one to see race everytime an incident occurs.

kiwifan
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Richard Rules!!! :haha:

Love Him!!! :cool:

Always giving 'em hell. :devil:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:41 PM
so true
mary carillo may be stupid
but not everything is about race otherwise tiger woods wouldnt be so loved by all americans

Pls. don't interject him into this conversation. He's not African American, he's Canablasian:rolleyes:

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:43 PM
Excuse you? Your tone and language demonstrates the lack of class you have Wannabeknowitall. And anyway, Carillo has been making these mean spirited comments against the Williams Sisters for over ten years. And its no surprise that the biggest critics of the Williams Sisters are of course WHITE WOMEN and their fellow AMERICANS.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Pls. don't interject him into this conversation. He's not African American, he's Canablasian:rolleyes:
ok what abt michael jordan then

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:46 PM
ok what abt michael jordan then

What about him?:wavey:

CoolDude7
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:53 PM
i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:

That is great. I'm proud of you for being a hard worker. I've taken U.S. History, it would have you to believe A LOT OF FICTION. It leaves out many contributions by African Americans. It would have you to believe that Columbus Discovered America. U.S. Studies is needed to graduate high school. Where as you don't have to know African American History(which let's face it, is watered down itself in what it tells children). Which is sad in itself. I've come to the realization, that NO amount of studies can put you in the actual postion/feeling of living in a black persons life(not saying it is bad, but you don't understand the pain and suffering not just because of todays discrimination, but they can feel the past injusticies in their hearts, the senseless beatings/hangings/raping/stonings/many other nasty things that i won't say). They were treated 24/7 exactly how VICK treated A LOSING DOG in a dog fight. You can't just study it, and claim to know what they went through. If you happen to be black/then you are lucky that you live in a very small or delusional select few of blacks. African Americans lost their cultures, and stories to tell in generations to come, lost their OWN beliefs in life, and was forced to conform to new beliefs and standards. Every other race was given some reparations, blacks got nothing.(Yet we want them to just shut up and forget about what happened when our own country, whom was founded upon freedom...fill in the blanks)Many Europeans today live rich(in slave money/houses) that were built off of suffering of African Americans. Yet, they can't get the same job opportunties(postions/money/u name it) today as Europeans. Yet, They are displayed in the media as being the bad ones(targeted by the police etc)! I won't, and haven't began to teach. I haven't touched the pain of what they went through. But I will leave it be....(and that is exactly what many europeans did after slavery, they just walked away(as if everything was okay)

Not saying all europeans did these injusticies, be clear about that!

Be clear, studing lets you know what happened, it does not give you complete understanding!

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:53 PM
Excuse you? Your tone and language demonstrates the lack of class you have Wannabeknowitall. And anyway, Carillo has been making these mean spirited comments against the Williams Sisters for over ten years. And its no surprise that the biggest critics of the Williams Sisters are of course WHITE WOMEN and their fellow AMERICANS.

My tone and language demonstrates that I'm tired of the bullshyt that you constantly put on this board.
And I see no reason to be nice to your fake ass anymore.

Your comments about Serena right now are slanderous.
Serena has always defended herself when it comes to critics or when it comes to anything that she thinks should be brought up.
When she thought Capriati didn't like her for whatever reason in 2002, she brought it up.
This is not something new and your implications in your post that it is is just totally beyond ignorance.

Whatever.
When I made my comments about Tracy Austin last week your fake ass was nowhere to be found.
Obviously you have your own agenda on here and it's not to make sure that covert racism is known, it's just to start drama.

nhissan
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:54 PM
i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:


Man you are pathetic.
You lived in the US for maybe 1 year or 2 you had a course about African American Studies and you think you know everything about race issues?


ps What do you mean by you guys? do you think I represent a group? grow up :rolleyes:

LoveFifteen
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:55 PM
It appears that the USTA did try to honor Gibson while she was alive, but still, they could've done a lot more, a lot sooner.

Sorry, Richard, but Evert, Navratilova, and King did a lot more for the sport than your daughters. :shrug:

blamoh
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:55 PM
I agree with all what Richard has said. Everything or anything Venus
and Serena do is not good enough.
When Venus reached her first Wimbledon final, the sem-final between her
and Serena was fixed by their father becuase he wanted Venus to win grandslam as well. And these very commentators said that I remembered.
But when Venus lost to Serena five consecutive times, this time it was
not fixed but the matches were boring.
And when Kim and Justine were making all the finals in the absence of the
Williamses, and Justine winning all, everything was alright, tennis is alive again,she was a good back-handed player, good techique and so on...
So when you look at these two different times,where there is too much of
bashing towards the Williams, people should remain mute pretending nothing
is happening. But many people don't see it that way including myself who
believe some of the talks in the commentating rooms are influenced by
racism.

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:56 PM
No Wannabeknowitall your tone and language demonstrates your immaturity and your inability to construct an intelligent argument. If you don't agree with someone there is no need to use scatalogical language. You are just illustrating your own childish and pathetic behaviour.

harloo
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:58 PM
I predicted Mary Carillo would bite back after hearing about Serena's remark and she's remained true to form. And trust me, it will continue until the tournament is over. Richard is just being Richard, who actually expected him not to say anything?:lol:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:00 PM
I predicted Mary Carillo would bite back after hearing about Serena's remark and she's remained true to form. And trust me, it will continue until the tournament is over. Richard is just being Richard, who actually expected him not to say anything?:lol:

Richard is famous for taking the heat for and off his daughters. I commend him for that.

miffedmax
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Like daughter, like father. :o

I disagree. There are a number of times when Richard has, I think, played the infamous race card, run his mouth about tennis history which has mostly shown he doesn't really know (or care about) tennis history and sometimes I think he talks just to hear himself talk and to get attention, which he clearly craves. (LIke a lot of successful people, he thinks his success in one area--raising two champion daughters--makes him an expert in EVERYthing, which he clearly isn't).

I've never heard his daughters do any of those things. Yes, as much as I would love to hear one of them come out and say, "Gee, she played great and just beat me today," I've never heard them complain about their endorsement deals, most of the press coverage they've received or lash out at anyone based on their ethnic or social backgrounds.

(Of course, there are times when Richard's been right about racism, too).

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Carillo's true racist colours have been shown for the world to see. I am glad both Serena and Richard stay true to themselves and don't allow this racist woman Carillo off the hook.

miffedmax
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:04 PM
Richard is famous for taking the heat for and off his daughters. I commend him for that.

I think that while that may be a benefical side effect, Richard talks because he likes the attention.

But for the most part, I'm like "That's just Richard being Richard." There are a lot of people I take more seriously than I do him.

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Richard already gets attention for developing two daughters to become tennis champions by NOT following the tennis formula. Venus and Serena did NOT play junior events and plenty of American tennis critics predicted gloom and doom and he proved them ALL WRONG. And look at Jennifer Capriati she's as pathetic as ever. In the NY DAILY NEWS Capriati complaining about how hard she's got it as a multi millionaire this summer in the NY DAILY NEWS saying her parents pushed her too hard too young. Richard and Oracene did the RIGHT THING for their girls.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:07 PM
I think that while that may be a benefical side effect, Richard talks because he likes the attention.

But for the most part, I'm like "That's just Richard being Richard." There are a lot of people I take more seriously than I do him.

I'd have to agree, but Carillo is not one of them.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:07 PM
...I guess "modesty" isn't part of Jehova's Witness' beliefs...wouldn't it be boring without richard?
But his constant race remarks have become quite annoying lately: "blacks can't win..blablaba...yes, that's why V & S gain millions of bucks off the court, are on every cover, advertising, talk show etc.....:tape:
What's annoying to me is how you so called Christians are always attempting to degrade their religion considering the history of Christianity and some of the people on this board. A religion is only as good as the people that practice it. Also, I'm not sure that Richard is a Jehovah Witness.

The USTA hasn't given the William sisters anything. They've earned it all from their hard work and nothing else. As far as Richard's remarks about race if concerned, he's a grown man and says what some others don't have the courage to say. It's because of people speaking out that cause changes in this world. What he said about Althea is sad but true. Since it doesn't affect you in anyway, do yourself a favor and don't read his articles.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:09 PM
Being modest can only get you so far. If he was modest, his daughters wouldn't have accomplished as much as they did. Richard have fought the USTA for a long time.If anyone has the inside information on them it's Richard.
Touche'

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:09 PM
No Wannabeknowitall your tone and language demonstrates your immaturity and your inability to construct an intelligent argument. If you don't agree with someone there is no need to use scatalogical language. You are just illustrating your own childish and pathetic behaviour.

Obviously you don't know anything about the ghetto.
If you did you would know that everyone has a breaking point, where I could go about talking to you on an intelligent level but the only thing that is going to get into your thick head is me cussing you out.

We've gone way past that point where its not about agreeing or disagreeing.

You put stuff on this board which you will call the truth just to win an argument more than anyone else on this board.

So I'm going to call you out on the fake ass shit that you do on this board.
As a Serena fan I just don't like that you would imply that Serena has just started to defend herself because it's bullshit.
And that you would go around thinking that it should taken as fact is insulting to all Serena fans on this board.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:09 PM
Richard already gets attention for developing two daughters to become tennis champions by NOT following the tennis formula. Venus and Serena did NOT play junior events and plenty of American tennis critics predicted gloom and doom and he proved them ALL WRONG. And look at Jennifer Capriati she's as pathetic as ever. In the NY DAILY NEWS Capriati complaining about how hard she's got it as a multi millionaire this summer in the NY DAILY NEWS saying her parents pushed her too hard too young. Richard and Oracene did the RIGHT THING for their girls.
richard and oracene did what was right for their daughters and we all acknowledge that
but does that make them the spokesperson for the entire african american community or an expert on racism ?
i am sure to get a bad rep on this thread even though i am a veetard

VenusSerenaBlvd.
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Keep in mind, Venus and Serena are his daughters. He will forever talk them up and have his biased views about his daughters. Heck, I do the same as a fan. Besides, they've proven themselves time and time again. In a way Richard is right. While I think Billie Jean King has had the biggest impact on Tennis, Venus and Serena are more popular and even better tennis players that King. Billie would even say that herself. King dreamed of equal prize money and people of color to play tennis. Venus and Serena are both perfect examples of her dream. I still believe that Carillo's comments were not racially charged (just compare it to Hewitt USO 2001, which was blatantly "racialistic").

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Like daughter, like father. :o
Absolutely, and it's a wonderful thing. :bounce::bounce::bounce:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:12 PM
i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:
:eek:

Apoorv
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:13 PM
“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”


This is a bag full of bullshit. This statement is an insult to many including Billy Jean King who set up the WTA.

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:16 PM
Just because Carillo doesn't use racial slurs doesn't mean her comments are not racially charged. Carillo's comments are indeed racially motivated. We will have to agree to disagree. The biggest critics of the Williams Sisters have been WHITE WOMEN and their FELLOW AMERICANS. Carillo, Austin, Evert, Navratilova, and Shriver, have been making covert racist comments and backhand complements for a decade. Richard and Serena were just calling out Carillo for the bigot she is.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:17 PM
I agree with that, he prob had to go through a lot of shit, no doubt about it!
but what i dislike about his comments is that it sounds like it s still the 50s and nothing has changed, while his daughters (and himself) make tons of money OFF COURT being accepted and apreciated etc...So this whole generalization "blacks can't win.." isn't right imo espcially considering their stardom!
According to you he should be grateful and not have an opinion. We have plenty of Clarence Thomas's like that already.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Get back w/us after you've completed your African Americans studies program, you've got a ways to go.
:worship::worship::worship:

Chunchun
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:20 PM
“I think there’s a lot of players who can win,” Serena Williams said. “Obviously I want it to be me. I’m thinking it’s going to be me.”

:lol: :hearts:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:26 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like
This is 2007 and there are still different expectations for blacks than for whites. Do you think the sisters could have gotten away with saying some of the things that Martina Hingis, John McEnroe, or Jimmy Connors said or did? Of course not.

I worked in corporate America for many years and know from experience. The difference is that people don't wear their sheets any longer. So don't come here giving us a lecture on racism and what Richard Williams is thinking because of something you've read in a book.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:26 PM
He just summed up everything that the commentators and the USTA have been getting away with for years... but no one said anything, except for the outspoken yet highly intelligent individuals *such as myself* on WTAWORLD :)
:lol::lol::lol:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Mary Carrillo is annoying ,she laughts at her own jokes.Richard is wrong about Athea Gibson,The USTA tried to honor her twice in her lifetime,but Athea declined both times.I like Richard,sometimes he's right, and sometimes you have to take what he's saying with a grain of salt.HE sure is entertaining.
:tape:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Very true.

I think what Mary said is extremely stupid and she definitely deserves the responses she got from Serena and some of those of Richard. But to be accused of racism is pushing it A LOT, and like I said in a previous post, it trivializes such an important issue like racism.

Again, I'm dissapointed by Richard's remarks, bringing race everytime he gets an opportunity to, whether justified or not.
Is it ok when it's justified according to you or to him?

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM
so true
mary carillo may be stupid
but not everything is about race otherwise tiger woods wouldnt be so loved by all americans
Tiger Woods keeps his mouth shut and is the type of black person you admire.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:35 PM
oh i totally agree that sometimes the criticisms of my fav's have nothing to do with race but if you think like that all the time then you're totally ignoring the times when rena+vee are being bagged on or being criticized cause they're black. i remember after rena won the open the first time that my mom cut out this article from the times. in it the writer wrote that rena "loves to show off her vocabulary". my mom told me and my and my brother that she wondered if rena was white if the writer would've written that cause the writer was acting like "who does this black girl think she is?". it does make you wonder when things like that are said about rena+vee. would you consistently bag on a white player for the things that rena+vee are always bagged on? ppl aren't always honest when it comes to answering that and it's the dbl standard that makes rena+vee fans really mad.
You have a wise mother. :worship:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:36 PM
Pls. don't interject him into this conversation. He's not African American, he's Canablasian:rolleyes:
I couldn't think of the name of his race. :lol: One things for sure when they wouldn't let him in that country club, all they saw as black.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:40 PM
That is great. I'm proud of you for being a hard worker. I've taken U.S. History, it would have you to believe A LOT OF FICTION. It leaves out many contributions by African Americans. It would have you to believe that Columbus Discovered America. U.S. Studies is needed to graduate high school. Where as you don't have to know African American History(which let's face it, is watered down itself in what it tells children). Which is sad in itself. I've come to the realization, that NO amount of studies can put you in the actual postion/feeling of living in a black persons life(not saying it is bad, but you don't understand the pain and suffering not just because of todays discrimination, but they can feel the past injusticies in their hearts, the senseless beatings/hangings/raping/stonings/many other nasty things that i won't say). They were treated 24/7 exactly how VICK treated A LOSING DOG in a dog fight. You can't just study it, and claim to know what they went through. If you happen to be black/then you are lucky that you live in a very small or delusional select few of blacks. African Americans lost their cultures, and stories to tell in generations to come, lost their OWN beliefs in life, and was forced to conform to new beliefs and standards. Every other race was given some reparations, blacks got nothing.(Yet we want them to just shut up and forget about what happened when our own country, whom was founded upon freedom...fill in the blanks)Many Europeans today live rich(in slave money/houses) that were built off of suffering of African Americans. Yet, they can't get the same job opportunties(postions/money/u name it) today as Europeans. Yet, They are displayed in the media as being the bad ones(targeted by the police etc)! I won't, and haven't began to teach. I haven't touched the pain of what they went through. But I will leave it be....(and that is exactly what many europeans did after slavery, they just walked away(as if everything was okay)

Not saying all europeans did these injusticies, be clear about that!

Be clear, studing lets you know what happened, it does not give you complete understanding!
:worship::worship::worship:

Lulu.
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Well said Richard :)

Chrissie-fan
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I think that the Gibson tribute is a good thing. Maybe it's a public relations job on the part of the USTA, an attempt from them to make everyone forget about it's racist past, but be that as it may, it's still a well deserved tribute to a great player and will make more people aware of her achievements.

Before Gibson black players weren't even allowed by the USTA to enter the same tournaments as whites. Blacks played in tournaments where the draws were made up exclusively of players of colour. No regular tour tournaments, US, French or Wimbledon championships for Ora Washington who was by far the best black girl player from the 1920's and 30's. No newspaper articles (or even a mention of her results) or magazine covers like there were for Lenglen or Wills for Ora Washington in the segregated USA (or rest of the world too really) of her day.

All throughout her career it was Ora's big dream to one day be allowed to play a match against the tennis genius of the day, the great Helen Wills. Alas, things being as they were, this was to remain a dream. White players didn't speak up for their black colleagues either. But to be fair to them, they were probably not the most guilty party. In those days a player was pretty much a slave to the stuffed shirts of the USTA and it didn't take much to get a suspension, or even to be banned permanently. Alice Marble was the first white player who protested against the treatment of black players in the late 40's or early 50's.

If the USTA really wants to make up for past crimes, they should include Ora Washington and other victims of their racist policies from the past in their tribute to Althea. Would Washington have been able to beat Helen Wills if they had played each other? Probably not, Wills was almost unbeatable at the time and a true all time great. But they sure robbed her (and many others) from the opportunity to try.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:44 PM
I think that while that may be a benefical side effect, Richard talks because he likes the attention.

But for the most part, I'm like "That's just Richard being Richard." There are a lot of people I take more seriously than I do him.
Richard doesn't go looking for the press, they come looking for him and he speaks the truth as he sees it.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:48 PM
Tiger Woods keeps his mouth shut and is the type of black person you admire.


i have faced racism myself from African Americans and i just ignore it
it just doesn't impact me
i am a minority (asian american ) and i go about doing my work
to be fair i have never faced the racism that African Americans faced before the abolition of slavery but i don't think the current levels of racism is that high
that nothing is changed in the past 50 years as richard williams says
what people say about me behind my back doesn't impact me
i follow the sayings of Buddha if a person refuses to accept a gift it remains with the person offering the gift, the same goes for abuses it stays with the person who abuses you if you don't accept it

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:48 PM
oh i totally agree that sometimes the criticisms of my fav's have nothing to do with race but if you think like that all the time then you're totally ignoring the times when rena+vee are being bagged on or being criticized cause they're black. i remember after rena won the open the first time that my mom cut out this article from the times. in it the writer wrote that rena "loves to show off her vocabulary". my mom told me and my and my brother that she wondered if rena was white if the writer would've written that cause the writer was acting like "who does this black girl think she is?". it does make you wonder when things like that are said about rena+vee. would you consistently bag on a white player for the things that rena+vee are always bagged on? ppl aren't always honest when it comes to answering that and it's the dbl standard that makes rena+vee fans really mad.

In that example I don't think they're being bagged on because they're black.
To me a lot of times it seems that tennis athletes get a bad rap when it comes to intelligence for some reason.

I've seen the same thing happen to Vaidisova.
She enjoys reading and some writers have made a big deal about it.

Hantuchova is a classically trained pianist and some wrtiers have made a big deal about that.

I understand where you're coming from but it's just as bad to think that every criticism is racial and on this board there's a lot more thinking that every incident is racial than every incident is not racial.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:51 PM
richard and oracene did what was right for their daughters and we all acknowledge that
but does that make them the spokesperson for the entire african american community or an expert on racism ?
i am sure to get a bad rep on this thread even though i am a veetard
Who said that?

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:52 PM
" remember after rena won the open the first time that my mom cut out this article from the times. in it the writer wrote that rena "loves to show off her vocabulary". my mom told me and my and my brother that she wondered if rena was white if the writer would've written that cause the writer was acting like "who does this black girl think she is?". it does make you wonder when things like that are said about rena+vee."


After Venus stormed back to beat Lindsay in the 00 Wimbledon final Evert quipped "Venus just showed who the better athlete was out there today."

Really? Did we not know that before they even stepped on the court?
When Venus was behind in the match she was saying Venus had no plan B and that Lindsay would mix it up more because she could do more than just hit it harder.


It's subtle remarks like that that are quite telling.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:55 PM
I think that the Gibson tribute is a good thing. Maybe it's a public relations job on the part of the USTA, an attempt from them to make everyone forget about it's racist past, but be that as it may, it's still a well deserved tribute to a great player and will make more people aware of her achievements.

Before Gibson black players weren't even allowed by the USTA to enter the same tournaments as whites. Blacks played in tournaments where the draws were made up exclusively of players of colour. No regular tour tournaments, US, French or Wimbledon championships for Ora Washington who was by far the best black girl player from the 1920's and 30's. No newspaper articles (or even a mention of her results) or magazine covers like there were for Lenglen or Wills for Ora Washington in the segregated USA (or rest of the world too really) of her day.

All throughout her career it was Ora's big dream to one day be allowed to play a match against the tennis genius of the day, the great Helen Wills. Alas, things being as they were, this was to remain a dream. White players didn't speak up for their black colleagues either. But to be fair to them, they were probably not the most guilty party. In those days a player was pretty much a slave to the stuffed shirts of the USTA and it didn't take much to get a suspension, or even to be banned permanently. Alice Marble was the first white player who protested against the treatment of black players in the late 40's or early 50's.

If the USTA really wants to make up for past crimes, they should include Ora Washington and other victims of their racist policies from the past in their tribute to Althea. Would Washington have been able to beat Helen Wills if they had played each other? Probably not, Wills was almost unbeatable at the time and a true all time great. But they sure robbed her (and many others) from the opportunity to try.
As usual. :worship::worship::worship:

So glad you wrote this article because if Richard had said it the board would have been talking about Jehovah Witnesses or claim he was using the race card.

tennisfan1972
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:01 PM
RICHARD pretty much does this every single time one of his girls wins a major. I think this is market ploy. This kinda stuff makes everyone focus on everrything except the Speed and Power of Venus and serena. And watch everyone in the press will ask the WTA players what they think and the moment one of them says something of interest all the media headlines will be about that meanwhile either venus or serena will win the US open and the rest is history. I think this is a good strategy as it seems to work towards getting the girls fired up for their matches. All we need now is for Either serena or VEnus to make the final against Sharapove. Talk about a ratings winner that would be for the sport.

jellybelly
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:02 PM
As usual, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Denying the possibility of racism only emboldens the racists and makes it ok to knock anyone trying to expose the truth. The William sisters are a phenomenon, nothing like them is happened to the sport. I hope these are only growing pains and in the future the contributions of the Williams will be fully appreciated and recongized.

Apoleb
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Is it ok when it's justified according to you or to him?

uhm neither, but according to any reasonable person? It's not fine to bring racism when it's not justified.

If he's going to accuse every person who criticizes the Williamses of racism then he's trivializing the issue and doing a bigger disservice to it more than anything else.

I also think it's despicable to accuse someone of something as heinous as racism when there's barely anything to latch on. Like people have already said, Carillo has almost negatively criticized every breathing tennis player. At the moment I guess it's easy to forget that Carillo is a person after all who's being accused of something awful with barely anything to back it up.

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Absolutely... :worship:

:spit: Ridiculous. He apparantly has never heard of Billie Jean King.
Yeah.. i agreed with him when i thought he was gonna say of any of today's superstars....

i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:

As much as living here and studying it. Sorry but you really cant understand racism unless you are the victim. you can simpathize with its victims but never fully grasp it.

morningglory
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:06 PM
:lol: Tennis dads :shrug: :lol:

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:09 PM
As usual, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Denying the possibility of racism only emboldens the racists and makes it ok to knock anyone trying to expose the truth. The William sisters are a phenomenon, nothing like them is happened to the sport. I hope these are only growing pains and in the future the contributions of the Williams will be fully appreciated and recongized.
as much as i like the williams sisters don't u think the above line is a little bit extreme
much more than them it is the contributions of billie jean king and martina and chrissie who built the tour and gave it respect
the williams sisters do not even play regularly on the tour to give fans their due

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:09 PM
After Venus stormed back to beat Lindsay in the 00 Wimbledon final Evert quipped "Venus just showed who the better athlete was out there today."

Really? Did we not know that before they even stepped on the court?When Venus was behind in the match she was saying Venus had no plan B and that Lindsay would mix it up more because she could do more than just hit it harder.


It's subtle remarks like that that are quite telling.

You've just put Chrissie in a lose-lose situation and I don't think you're understanding that.

There are racial implications with the words athletic and black.
There's history behind it.
When the Georgetown Hoyas were dominant in the 80s what words were used for them?
Thugs, powerful, athletic.

Why did the NFL take so long to target blacks as quarterbacks or coaches?
Because the belief was that although blacks are more athletic they had problems thinking on their feet.
Absurd yes but at the time a belief.

And that still resonates today.

So even though it's obvious that Venus is the better athlete, it's hard to praise that area without it coming off as covert racism.

And she just can't lie and say Venus has a plan B because she doesn't and that's something that this board has discussed for years.

OneLove
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:14 PM
I am glad that Richard Williams came out and spoke about the USTA. The USTA is an organization that sits back and watches everybody else help others, and then they take credit for it. They are known for that. Of course, the USTA has their own people that they put some of their money into. Very few are black. That’s the key word, FEW.

Before I go on, to the poster who said that the USTA tried to contact Gibson twice. Twice in her lifetime, that’s a bloody ass joke. They should be ashamed to even state that. But I’m glad that they did because sometimes you just never know when you get caught up on your own damn words.

There are many young minorities who try to get wildcards. The USTA and other organizations refuse to give it to them. The USTA’s interest is in collecting everybody else’s money and then they turn around and give it to who they want to give it to. More than likely the support isn’t going to too many minority groups, whether it be black, Asian, etc. There are so many minority heroes in so many arenas, but you never hear about them.

Is America a racist country? Yes is it. Has opportunities for minorities changed in this country? Well, that all depends on how you look at it. When you have to fill quotas, I’m not sure about that.

When I run into Richard Williams, I will make sure to let him know that I’m fully well damn pleased with his comments as far as recognition towards minorities, especially blacks. The USTA is not what they claim to be. Two attempts in Gibson’s lifetime and she lived to 73, and they act like they did something big? There is more wrong with the USTA than many will ever accept or admit. I just hope that people speak out more and more about what’s going on.

Let me get to the International Tennis Hall of Fame. They aren’t too much better themselves. Yes, they found a way to recognize blacks so that they all can make themselves look good. How about them admitting that they contacted the same blacks to provide free services, basically using them? They want to honor blacks, but at the same time use other blacks to provide all materials for free. So then, in the end, they look good.

This is the same attitude that these people had back in the 60’s. Race is a problem in the US. Race is a problem in the world in general.

I hope that one or two friends in particular will have their say on this.

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:14 PM
as much as i like the williams sisters don't u think the above line is a little bit extreme
much more than them it is the contributions of billie jean king and martina and chrissie who built the tour and gave it respect
the williams sisters do not even play regularly on the tour to give fans their due

A)Venus plays more than Justine
B) You go back in history and find me two girls who learned to play tennis in ghetto from a book........ and you cant call them a phenomenom....

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:15 PM
And what about Mary Carillo? Carillo makes these kinds of statements BECAUSE she wants attention on herself. Its so typical of Carillo to do this kind of shameless grandstanding and being a troublemaker. I've been reading some articles on the web and even the Daily Telegraph and the Guardian have said that Carillo's comment was not nice and out of line. Venus and Serena are still winning grand slams.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:15 PM
[quote]uhm neither, but according to any reasonable person? It's not fine to bring racism when it's not justified.You said justified or not justified and my point is that Richard is the only person that can determine what's justified for him.

If he's going to accuse every person who criticizes the Williamses of racism then he's trivializing the issue and doing a bigger disservice to it more than anything else.You said that not him

I also think it's despicable to accuse someone of something as heinous as racism when there's barely anything to latch on. Like people have already said, Carillo has almost negatively criticized every breathing tennis player.Show me where I've accused or implied that Carillo is a racist.
At the moment I guess it's easy to forget that Carillo is a person after all who's being accused of something awful with barely anything to back it up.Who is that comment for?

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:19 PM
as much as i like the williams sisters don't u think the above line is a little bit extreme
much more than them it is the contributions of billie jean king and martina and chrissie who built the tour and gave it respect
the williams sisters do not even play regularly on the tour to give fans their due

Venus has played more than Justine from 02 to present.

jellybelly
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:21 PM
as much as i like the williams sisters don't u think the above line is a little bit extreme
much more than them it is the contributions of billie jean king and martina and chrissie who built the tour and gave it respect
the williams sisters do not even play regularly on the tour to give fans their due

Lalit I can tell from your name that you are Indian as well. Then why do you fall for this gora propaganda? After what the Britishers did to our country, you should know better than that.

treufreund
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:21 PM
There is some truth in his statements. He is right that Althea was ignored and that the USTA are pc hypocrites. GOOD ON YA RICHARD!

However, spare me the "victim" card/race card crap again.

darice
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:22 PM
I understand where you're coming from but it's just as bad to think that every criticism is racial and on this board there's a lot more thinking that every incident is racial than every incident is not racial.

ita. i've always thought that way. you have to have balance or you'll be paranoid. :lol:

treufreund
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:23 PM
What exactly did Carillo say? Somehow that has all gotten lost in the numerous threads. Instead it has turn into a lot of bravado and name-calling. I cannot believe that that has happened on wtaworld.com LOL.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:23 PM
You've just put Chrissie in a lose-lose situation and I don't think you're understanding that.

There are racial implications with the words athletic and black.
There's history behind it.
When the Georgetown Hoyas were dominant in the 80s what words were used for them?
Thugs, powerful, athletic.

Why did the NFL take so long to target blacks as quarterbacks or coaches?
Because the belief was that although blacks are more athletic they had problems thinking on their feet.
Absurd yes but at the time a belief.

And that still resonates today.

So even though it's obvious that Venus is the better athlete, it's hard to praise that area without it coming off as covert racism.

And she just can't lie and say Venus has a plan B because she doesn't and that's something that this board has discussed for years.

you missed the point. Venus won that Wimbledon final because she played a smarter match, something apparently missed by Evert. Venus started putting more spin on the ball taking a little off her first serve and employed the dropshot effectively, that's called a plan "B".

People have discussed on this board how the Williams sisters don't support the tour, yadda yadda yadda, and it turns out Venus has played more than Justine from 02 to present, so don't go assuming that because it's been discussed it's a fact.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:24 PM
A)Venus plays more than Justine
B) You go back in history and find me two girls who learned to play tennis in ghetto from a book........ and you cant call them a phenomenom....
ana and jelena came from a war torn country that played tennis over a swimming pool and had no facilities whatsoever
sania comes from a poor country where they do not even have half decent tennis courts
of course none of them have the talents and game that the williams sisters at their peak possessed and continue to possess and the williams sisters are among the all time greats of womens tennis but to say that since they came from a ghetto all kinds of behavior is justified from richard is not correct

misael
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:26 PM
I dislike Mary as much as most of you, i don't think she's racist, I think she's just jealous.I remember when Monica Seles was stabbed and was away from the game and came back Mary (and Pam) both had so much negative things to say about Monica,I thought back then , Jealous Cows.I still do.

Apoleb
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:26 PM
You said justified or not justified and my point is that Richard is the only person that can determine what's justified for him.

You said that not him

Show me where I've accused or implied that Carillo is a racist.
Who is that comment for?

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about Richard. He implied that Carillo is criticizing Serena because of her race.

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:27 PM
The USTA is just trying to look good. They wait four years after Althea died to pay tribute to her is very disrespectful. Richard is right they waited far too long to give praise and tribute Althea Gibson. I mean contact the woman only twice in her life time that is whack. The USTA should of given Gibson the tribute over 20 years ago when she was healthy. If the USTA really respected Althea Gibson it wouldn't of taken this long to do the tribute. The USTA is just playing the public relations game so that society can forget their racist history.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Lalit I can tell from your name that you are Indian as well. Then why do you fall for this gora propaganda? After what the Britishers did to our country, you should know better than that.
yes i am a proud indian american
as for what the britishers did it is no different from any person would do when he is in power and has the opportunity to rule
genghis khan did it , the japanese did it and the chinese did the same thing as the britishers did at different points of time in history
if we keep on harking back to the past we will never progress
india is finally progressing because it is confident of itself and no longer blames the britishers

jellybelly
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:32 PM
yes i am a proud indian american
as for what the britishers did it is no different from any person would do when he is in power and has the opportunity to rule
genghis khan did it , the japanese did it and the chinese did the same thing as the britishers did at different points of time in history
if we keep on harking back to the past we will never progress
india is finally progressing because it is confident of itself and no longer blames the britishers

Yes and we can learn from our past. Gandhiji was enlightened after seeing the plight of blacks in south Africa. We should never forget that.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:32 PM
The USTA is just trying to look good. They wait four years after Althea died to pay tribute to her is very disrespectful. Richard is right they waited far too long to give praise and tribute Althea Gibson. I mean contact the woman only twice in her life time that is whack. The USTA should of given Gibson the tribute over 20 years ago when she was healthy. If the USTA really respected Althea Gibson it wouldn't of taken this long to do the tribute. The USTA is just playing the public relations game so that society can forget their racist history.

i can't believe this but I agree. All this we reached out shit is a day late and a dollar short. PR

As many pundits have said they USTA needs to be blown up and started from scratch.

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:38 PM
i can't believe this but I agree. All this we reached out shit is a day late and a dollar short. PR

As many pundits have said they USTA needs to be blown up and started from scratch.
this i do agree
it being too little and too late
but at least its a start
and an acknowledgment that we have come far from the days when African Americans were not even allowed to play with whites
heres to hoping that we wouldn't be needing to honor the williams sisters in this manner after their playing careers are over
best of luck to venus and serena for this US open

woosey
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:45 PM
i knew this was coming, you guys are so predicatble....
1) I actually did live in the states,
2) am doing North American Studies (incl. African American Studies) and probably do know more about the topic than you do....
3) you are obviously too dumb to understand my comment as it has nuttin to do with what u wrote....
4) f-- off is not a nice thing to say to people that didn t do you harm...didn t your parents teach you that??
5) have a great day :worship:

:haha: you europeans - so funny. you take one little class and presume you know more about myself and the intricacies of institutionalized racism in the context of the united states. :spit: when does your arrogance stop?

you don't know shit sweetie.

woosey
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:48 PM
uhm neither, but according to any reasonable person? It's not fine to bring racism when it's not justified.

If he's going to accuse every person who criticizes the Williamses of racism then he's trivializing the issue and doing a bigger disservice to it more than anything else.

I also think it's despicable to accuse someone of something as heinous as racism when there's barely anything to latch on. Like people have already said, Carillo has almost negatively criticized every breathing tennis player. At the moment I guess it's easy to forget that Carillo is a person after all who's being accused of something awful with barely anything to back it up.

:haha:

yet another white person hell bent on telling black folk what to think.

massa, is it ok to look you duh eye?

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:48 PM
you missed the point. Venus won that Wimbledon final because she played a smarter match, something apparently missed by Evert. Venus started putting more spin on the ball taking a little off her first serve and employed the dropshot effectively, that's called a plan "B".

People have discussed on this board how the Williams sisters don't support the tour, yadda yadda yadda, and it turns out Venus has played more than Justine from 02 to present, so don't go assuming that because it's been discussed it's a fact.

The discrepancies are confusing me.
Venus was only down a break in the first set and she broke right back, so there wasn't enough time for Chrissie to really go about saying anything because Venus was always ahead.

Even when Venus was down 3-1 in the second set, she was still ahead because she won the first set.
So there was no comeback, if anyone was trying to comeback it was Lindsay in that match. :lol:

Let's try to understand this, there's a difference between common sense and smart tactics.
If a player is wrapped up like a mummy, you make them move.
You also keep the ball in play.

If I give credit to Venus for that as a smart tactic, then i have to give credit to Justine at Wimbledon for hitting to Serena's backhand so much.

And why would I do that.
You see tape on a tennis player's body, it should be obvious to go after that part of the body to see if there is an issue.
If there's an issue you keep going after it.

If you don't, you're a retard.

Secondly when the hell has Justine become the lithmus test for supporting the WTA tour. :lol:

You're validating someone's support on tour with someone else who hasn't shown support on the tour. :lol:
It's absurd.

This is a player who missed two straight YEC without really valid reasons.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:53 PM
:haha: you europeans - so funny. you take one little class and presume you know more about myself and the intricacies of institutionalized racism in the context of the united states. :spit: when does your arrogance stop?

you don't know shit sweetie.

It's not just a european thing either, until i had more exposure to people who grew up less fortunate than I, I didn't understand when folks would say standardized test were culturally biased. Or that someone telling me I was pretty smart for a black guy was insult.:help: I caught on quick. The next guy who said that to me was punched in the face.:help:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:55 PM
I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about Richard. He implied that Carillo is criticizing Serena because of her race.
Here's Richard's quote. Show me where he said what you've accused him of saying.

“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”

Expat
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Here's Richard's quote. Show me where he said what you've accused him of saying.

“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”
this is the part i object to
but whether it has any connotations to racism i dont think so

OneLove
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Morissey, absolutely, it’s more of a PR thing. That’s exactly what I’m saying. It is more of a PR stunt with attempts to make themselves look good. It was disgraceful to hear that the ITHF contacted individuals that I know, using crafty words, to gain their services and not offer them one darned thing. It’s pretty much all the same, just in a craftier manner.

There are so many more facts about what’s going on within the USTA that trickles down to other organizations. There are many young blacks who have to be, not only constantly protecting themselves on the court, but their parents have to be there to protect them from children who are taught to be racist and the parents that are teaching them that way. It’s very sad that children are being encouraged to have this type of attitude.

The International Tennis Hall of Fame isn’t backwards either. The apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree. Teaching up and coming players to respect one another is more important than teaching them how to dislike each other and cheat against each other because of their race.

woosey said, “you don’t know shit sweety”. LOL! Funny, sad, but true.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:00 PM
The discrepancies are confusing me.
Venus was only down a break in the first set and she broke right back, so there wasn't enough time for Chrissie to really go about saying anything because Venus was always ahead.

Even when Venus was down 3-1 in the second set, she was still ahead because she won the first set.
So there was no comeback, if anyone was trying to comeback it was Lindsay in that match. :lol:

Let's try to understand this, there's a difference between common sense and smart tactics.
If a player is wrapped up like a mummy, you make them move.
You also keep the ball in play.

If I give credit to Venus for that as a smart tactic, then i have to give credit to Justine at Wimbledon for hitting to Serena's backhand so much.

And why would I do that.
You see tape on a tennis player's body, it should be obvious to go after that part of the body to see if there is an issue.
If there's an issue you keep going after it.

If you don't, you're a retard.

Secondly when the hell has Justine become the lithmus test for supporting the WTA tour. :lol:

You're validating someone's support on tour with someone else who hasn't shown support on the tour. :lol:
It's absurd.

This is a player who missed two straight YEC without really valid reasons.

W/out providing you w/a transcript of the commentating you won't get it because that wouldn't support your weak arguement.


I did not bring up Justine's support, or lack thereof take your pick to validate when Venus plays or doesn't play. I brought it up to point out the fact that Venus is critisized by association w/Serena, but there is none for players who play less than Venus.

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:17 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

this is my point and nothing else....If i hadn't been attacked personally i wouldn t even mention anything about my life and living in the states etc....COS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POINT OF MY POST!!!
But basically criticizing Richards' comments makes me a "stupid, ignorant European who knows nothing and should f... off" And all those generalisations...omg....you criticze biased opinions concerning race but what are you doing? Very classy of you all! I don t know why it is impossible to have a discussion in here without being insulted personally and criticizing my background, life etc. Did I do that to you? Does anyone know me?....Can i have my own opinion without being executed? (Of course there are exceptions who actually are able to discuss in a mature way,(thanks to darice !))

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:20 PM
W/out providing you w/a transcript of the commentating you won't get it because that wouldn't support your weak arguement.


I did not bring up Justine's support, or lack thereof take your pick to validate when Venus plays or doesn't play. I brought it up to point out the fact that Venus is critisized by association w/Serena, but there is none for players who play less than Venus.

I won't get it because you don't have it. :lol:
It has nothing to do with my argument.

My argument is that Plan B is used when Plan A isn't working.
Plan A never ceased to stop working in that match.
She lead for most of the match and was only down a break in the second.
Tinkering with Plan A because you site an injury early on is still Plan A.
She still went for the lines and a high first serve percentage on grass is very important(if only Justine would understand that).

You don't give extra credit to someone for siting the obvious.
I wouldn't call Lindsay playing to Venus forehand at the 2004 San Diego tournament a smart tactic, it's common sense if you see a player getting their right wrist taped.

Chris has a right to say what she had to say.
In that case she was damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

When it comes to the letter to Serena in her own magazine to get more people to buy them, that was way out of line.

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:36 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

this is my point and nothing else....If i hadn't been attacked personally i wouldn t even mention anything about my life and living in the states etc....COS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POINT OF MY POST!!!
But basically criticizing Richards' comments makes me a "stupid, ignorant European who knows nothing and should f... off" And all those generalisations...omg....you criticze biased opinions concerning race but what are you doing? Very classy of you all! I don t know why it is impossible to have a discussion in here without being insulted personally and criticizing my background, life etc. Did I do that to you? Does anyone know me?....Can i have my own opinion without being executed? (Of course there are exceptions who actually are able to discuss in a mature way,(thanks to darice !))

You make a comment basically saying that because you took some classes you know whats its like to be a black american... sorry sweetie but you dont. I didnt jump on you about being a snotty Europian. Just correcting you. Regardless of the classes you take. nothing beats personal experience.... You can have your opinion, but one claiming racism isnt a big deal anymore is just wrong. You'll never know what its like to be an african american regardless of how much studying and living in the US you do.

SerenaSlam
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:42 PM
i think richard makes a good point. african american culture is that of giving one their flowers while they yet live (Rev. James Cleveland (most well known gospel artist). Thus i think what he is saying is the fact that when it comes down to many things and the achievements of blacks they are generally givin an honour after death....thus why african americans usually honour eachother when we are yet still alive...a good example would be Oprah's Legends Ball...i will post a link from youtube for you all to see...its a very good example and really its basically what richard is talkin about.

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:49 PM
You make a comment basically saying that because you took some classes you know whats its like to be a black american... sorry sweetie but you dont. I didnt jump on you about being a snotty Europian. Just correcting you. Regardless of the classes you take. nothing beats personal experience.... You can have your opinion, but one claiming racism isnt a big deal anymore is just wrong. You'll never know what its like to be an african american regardless of how much studying and living in the US you do.

And i never said differently.... Where did i say that i know how it is to be Afr-American???? And I never said that i know how it is to live as an Af-A in the States neither that racism isn t a big deal anymore for god s sake!!! All i wanted to point out is that it s wrong to bring in race on every occasion when it comes to criticizing the sisters! No more no less....I apologize to every African American that felt offended and thought i would want to teach them their history, ok?!?! Anyway, those reactions I got weren't right, especially if everyone is so against hatred and for equality...

Bijoux0021
Aug 27th, 2007, 05:54 PM
Richard! :clap2:

Bijoux0021
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:02 PM
I agree with all what Richard has said. Everything or anything Venus
and Serena do is not good enough.
When Venus reached her first Wimbledon final, the sem-final between her
and Serena was fixed by their father becuase he wanted Venus to win grandslam as well. And these very commentators said that I remembered.
But when Venus lost to Serena five consecutive times, this time it was
not fixed but the matches were boring.
And when Kim and Justine were making all the finals in the absence of the
Williamses, and Justine winning all, everything was alright, tennis is alive again,she was a good back-handed player, good techique and so on...
So when you look at these two different times,where there is too much of
bashing towards the Williams, people should remain mute pretending nothing
is happening. But many people don't see it that way including myself who
believe some of the talks in the commentating rooms are influenced by
racism.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:05 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

this is my point and nothing else....If i hadn't been attacked personally i wouldn t even mention anything about my life and living in the states etc....COS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL POINT OF MY POST!!!
But basically criticizing Richards' comments makes me a "stupid, ignorant European who knows nothing and should f... off" And all those generalisations...omg....you criticze biased opinions concerning race but what are you doing? Very classy of you all! I don t know why it is impossible to have a discussion in here without being insulted personally and criticizing my background, life etc. Did I do that to you? Does anyone know me?....Can i have my own opinion without being executed? (Of course there are exceptions who actually are able to discuss in a mature way,(thanks to darice !))
OK! One person got ugly with you and instead of him/her being the exception, you made it seem as though Darice was the exception. :shrug:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:05 PM
I won't get it because you don't have it. :lol:
It has nothing to do with my argument.

My argument is that Plan B is used when Plan A isn't working.
Plan A never ceased to stop working in that match.
She lead for most of the match and was only down a break in the second.
Tinkering with Plan A because you site an injury early on is still Plan A.
She still went for the lines and a high first serve percentage on grass is very important(if only Justine would understand that).

You don't give extra credit to someone for siting the obvious.
I wouldn't call Lindsay playing to Venus forehand at the 2004 San Diego tournament a smart tactic, it's common sense if you see a player getting their right wrist taped.

Chris has a right to say what she had to say.
In that case she was damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

When it comes to the letter to Serena in her own magazine to get more people to buy them, that was way out of line.


for a minute there i wondered why you have an ass as your avatar...it all makes sense now thanks for clearing that up.:wavey:

raquel
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:08 PM
“When she played tennis, she didn’t do nothing,” he said. “She talks a lot. So true.


“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport.
Not so true ;) An exaggeration from Richard here perhaps, but their place in history is secure.

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:11 PM
And i never said differently.... Where did i say that i know how it is to be Afr-American???? And I never said that i know how it is to live as an Af-A in the States neither that racism isn t a big deal anymore for god s sake!!! All i wanted to point out is that it s wrong to bring in race on every occasion when it comes to criticizing the sisters! No more no less....I apologize to every African American that felt offended and thought i would want to teach them their history, ok?!?! Anyway, those reactions I got weren't right, especially if everyone is so against hatred and for equality...

Your orignial quote states your taking classes and probably know more about the subject than the other poster... clearly that you feeling you know mroe about whats its like. Frankly the comments you recieved werent really even that bad. They simply put you in your place. That being said not every comment against the williams sisters is racist however many are..... especailly coming from Mary Carillo..... Keep in mind that you from Europe read about 1950's 60's. Richard lived it. So granted The world has evolved since then but its hard to let go with the abuse he lived through.


To the poster that said all the bad things richard does? Last i checked he just talks. Its a free country to speak your mind as many here say "Carillo does" For and those of you who say she played the game she has a right. Richard taught the game to the two best athletes on tour right now so i think hes earned his right to speak his mind....

starin
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:11 PM
lol at Richard.
OTT but still a few germs of truth in there. Carillo can't have it both ways. She say that the WS underacheived and that they should have done more with their tennis legacy but she was complaining that they were ruining tennis when they were in every final. She can't have it both ways.

Love the line, "Blacks can't win even when they win".

Also people need to realize that when Richard was growing up Racism heavily influenced his life. His grandmother was a freed slave. Richard grew up in a time when racism was institutionalized by the U.S. He has experienced the ugliness of racism first hand and it has shaped him. So I don't think its unreasonable for him to be more sensitive to it than some white kid from a white suburb who hasn't the faintest idea of what racism is.

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:15 PM
ana and jelena came from a war torn country that played tennis over a swimming pool and had no facilities whatsoever
sania comes from a poor country where they do not even have half decent tennis courts
of course none of them have the talents and game that the williams sisters at their peak possessed and continue to possess and the williams sisters are among the all time greats of womens tennis but to say that since they came from a ghetto all kinds of behavior is justified from richard is not correct

Once again as you stated. Jelena is not the caliber player Venus and Serena are nor will she ever be IMO. Venus stormed onto the tour making her first US OPEN final in her US OPEN debut having played NO junior tournaments. and is a multiple grand slam winner. as is Serena. Jelena can match that. Jelenas been on tour since 03 and made her first SF last year.... Sania who? (just kidding;) ) Once again find me one? The top players throughout history have been "weened" if you will to be that way...

Dawn Marie
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:23 PM
Many people are ignorant about Black History because they were never taught it in highschool. They teach white history only. Washington and Robert E. Lee and that part of it. But I implore you ignorant fucks out here. please take a lecture or a class on black history. Then maybe you'll see just what Richard is talking about!!

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Your orignial quote states your taking classes and probably know more about the subject than the other poster... clearly that you feeling you know mroe about whats its like. Frankly the comments you recieved werent really even that bad. They simply put you in your place. That being said not every comment against the williams sisters is racist however many are..... especailly coming from Mary Carillo..... Keep in mind that you from Europe read about 1950's 60's. Richard lived it. So granted The world has evolved since then but its hard to let go with the abuse he lived through.

No, that posting was an answer to someone saying basically i can t talk about as i don't know shitters about it (that one guy/girl has actually a Canadian flag, so not even US as well...)....while i didn t even want so start this whole story, just criticizing that one Richard quote... i wanted to talk only about richard and his comments not in general! And as much as I don't know how it is for you, u know NOTHING about what Europeans do, read, study, think as well...and first of all we are all individuals with individual thinkings, education etc!
anyway, peace, i m done with this and feel like i got involved in sth that i didn t mean at all

Tennisstar86
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:39 PM
No, that posting was an answer to someone saying basically i can t talk about as i don't know shitters about it (that one guy/girl has actually a Canadian flag, so not even US as well...)....while i didn t even want so start this whole story, just criticizing that one Richard quote... i wanted to talk only about richard and his comments not in general! And as much as I don't know how it is for you, u know NOTHING about what Europeans do, read, study, think as well...and first of all we are all individuals with individual thinkings, education etc!
anyway, peace, i m done with this and feel like i got involved in sth that i didn t mean at all

Did I claim to know about Europians? Ive been to europe and know that it is a completely different culture, that i only barely touched on. What is the point of this post? a round about way of saying you were wrong?

frontier
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:45 PM
All the commentators are surprising not talking too much about the sisters.Austin was surprising quiet about Serena today.

tobe
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:48 PM
forget it, bury this, u obviously don t get my point and if u think i m wrong, ok, that s fine! This got out of hand way too much....

cellophane
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:50 PM
Richard would fit right in with the race trolls posting in GM.

Bijoux0021
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:54 PM
lol at Richard.
OTT but still a few germs of truth in there. Carillo can't have it both ways. She say that the WS underacheived and that they should have done more with their tennis legacy but she was complaining that they were ruining tennis when they were in every final. She can't have it both ways.

Love the line, "Blacks can't win even when they win".

Also people need to realize that when Richard was growing up Racism heavily influenced his life. His grandmother was a freed slave. Richard grew up in a time when racism was institutionalized by the U.S. He has experienced the ugliness of racism first hand and it has shaped him. So I don't think its unreasonable for him to be more sensitive to it than some white kid from a white suburb who hasn't the faintest idea of what racism is.
EXACTLY! It's interesting how Carillo defenders choose to ignore these kinds of comments because of their own hatred for the Williams sisters.

frontier
Aug 27th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Richard would fit right in with the race trolls posting in GM.typical:rolleyes:

Bijoux0021
Aug 27th, 2007, 07:06 PM
All the commentators are surprising not talking too much about the sisters.Austin was surprising quiet about Serena today.
I guess since they don't have anything nice to say, they might as shut up. It's great that Serena and Richard are speaking out against those haters.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Richard would fit right in with the race trolls posting in GM.
I don't think that Richard would fit in with you at all. :help:

morningglory
Aug 27th, 2007, 07:18 PM
I don't think that Richard would fit in with you at all. :help:

Oh yes he will I think... as would Yuri Sharapov! We would have a great big flame war to liven up this place a bit :lol:

Asaph
Aug 27th, 2007, 07:19 PM
ITAW Morissey

Don't know who you are but totally support your post. USTA could have honoured Ms. Gibson when she was alive and healthy. Once an elderly person is in poor health they can't move around and for you people to criticize her for that is just plain wrong.
It seems to me that some of these people find being accused of being a racist is worst than being a target of racist behavior.
Yes, things are better than 50 years ago. But it is still not equal. Saying it is better when blacks could be lynched for looking a white person in the eye then you don't have to improve that much to say things are better than in the 1950's America. You can be in America a black woman lawyer in an Armani suit and some whites and that includes employers, store owners, professors, etc. will still treat you like your the crack ho off the block. Read Ellis Cose Rage of the Priviledged Class if you truly want to be educated. If you are a poor black it is even worse.

Getting back to the topic. I don't always agree w/ Richard Williams and I do think he sometimes says things to keep the heat on him and off his daughters. But for this remark he could have said it better but as stated earlier they could have honoured her years ago.

Asaph
Aug 27th, 2007, 07:25 PM
ITAWU Da Forehand
"for a minute there I wondered why you have an ass as your avatar...it all makes sense now thanks for clearing that up."

This is so true and too funny :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

miffedmax
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Oh yes he will I think... as would Yuri Sharapov! We would have a great big flame war to liven up this place a bit :lol:

Ha! What a joke. Mommy Vera would kick BOTH their asses!

LucasArg
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:10 PM
I adore Richard! :yeah:

markdelaney
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:17 PM
I haven't read all 10 pages here so apologise if this has been raised earlier in the thread.
Didn't Richard Williams refer to Irina Spirlea as an "Ugly White Turkey" ? However justified he might have been in not liking Spirlea, he used a racist remark towards her so for him to claim racism is a case of hypocrisy as far as he is concerned.

thrust
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:32 PM
It was well known that Althea was sick and penniless before she died. If she was uanable to attend award ceremonies, perhaps the USTA or the Williams family, could have helped her out financially. Perhaps the Williams did. If not, I think Richard is crying crocodile tears in realtion to the great and humble Althea Gibson. Humble is certainly not a word one would associate with the Williams family.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:41 PM
It was well known that Althea was sick and penniless before she died. If she was uanable to attend award ceremonies, perhaps the USTA or the Williams family, could have helped her out financially. Perhaps the Williams did. If not, I think Richard is crying crocodile tears in realtion to the great and humble Althea Gibson. Humble is certainly not a word one would associate with the Williams family.
Many that have been helped by them would certainly disagree with you. Since you have no idea whether the Williams family has done anything for Ms. Gibson or not, you should shut up about it. Thirdly, Bud Collins as well as others have said the same thing that Richard said but I don't see you putting therir names down. Wonder why that is? Ms. Gibson did not play tennis for the Williams Tennis Assoc. so it's not up to them to take care of her but Venus and Serena honored her every opportunity they get.

PLP
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:48 PM
The thing is, Richard pretty much says that whenever people critize the Williams, you are basically criticizing them cos they are black which is not true! So Carillo said this cos she hates black people? no...
Of course there are lots of racist but whenever a negative thing is said about V & S, Richard brings in race....it shouldn't be!
Basically if u don t like them you are a racist....that s how it looks like

hmmm, but the thing about racism continuum is that is is inherent and often latent so it is impossible to know that is 'isn't racism'...if someone feels they are suffering from racism, they are, that's how it works...

I don't think Mary made her comments based on race, of course not, but that isn't the point here. It's really sad that the USTA couldn't do more for Althea. I don't know enough about the situation to make a judgement but it's still terrible...excited about tonight though!

pigam
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:52 PM
"She Hasn't done nothing"
That would mean Richard said she did a lot, right? :confused:

miffedmax
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:54 PM
Had Richard simply said what Collins said, that an honor to Gibson is long overdue, then I don't think there would have been any controversy.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 08:59 PM
Had Richard simply said what Collins said, that an honor to Gibson is long overdue, then I don't think there would have been any controversy.
Whenever one of the Williams' say anything there's controversy.

“I don’t think the USTA thought about Althea when she was alive,” Richard Williams told The Post yesterday. “It doesn’t mean anything. If she meant so much, they would’ve been interested in her when she was alive. It’s very wrong they didn’t do anything for her then. How come a black only becomes a hero after death. I think it’s ludicrous. It doesn’t make up for it.”

cellophane
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:01 PM
...if someone feels they are suffering from racism, they are, that's how it works...

You are joking, right?

Brooklyn90
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:10 PM
I love Richard :hug:

thrust
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:22 PM
mykarma- I did suggest that perhaps the Williams did financially assist Althea even though they had no real obligation to do so, and I do agree with Richard that the USTA should have done more for her when she was alive. I do, however, resent the notiion that anyone who says anything that isn^t adoring or in any way critical of the Sisters is a racist. I, at times, disagree and find Mary annoying but that does not necessarily make her mean spirited or a racist.

PLP
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:26 PM
You are joking, right?

No, absolutely not.

cellophane
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:31 PM
No, absolutely not.

What you said is too ridiculous for it not to be a joke. Someone thinking something doesn't make it a reality.

MisterMan
Aug 27th, 2007, 09:35 PM
DAMN !! Richard is spot on this time ! You go, Richard. You are absolutely right this time.

Anna F'd Enrique
Aug 27th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I am sorry, but Mary is only telling the damn truth.

Matt01
Aug 27th, 2007, 10:19 PM
Can i have my own opinion without being executed?

I think you are expecting too much from the Williams-trolls here...

Morrissey
Aug 27th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Richard is correct about the USTA and I am glad he spoke up about it.The USTA has never respected Althea Gibson during her life and even after she died. The USTA waits four years after Gibson's death to do a tribute is such a low blow. Its such a very public relations, pretentious, very contrived thing to do. I just hope young blacks pick up a book and READ about the shit Althea Gibson had to go through from being called the N word on the tennis court IN AMERICA to having to sleep in her car because she was DENIED access to housing while playing various tennis events., The USTA has such a racist history in relation to African American tennis players. Richard spoke the honest truth. The USTA waited too long they should of done this tribute a long time ago when Althea was strong and healthy enough to attend. Althea Gibson had a lot of grace and dignity and pride. I can see why she REJECTED the USTA two pathetic attempts to do a tribute to her I can imagine she didn't believe it was SINCERE by the USTA either. And now this tribute tonight is also not SINCERE EITHER. Thank goodness Richard Williams is around to tell the truth about the USTA and how it operates. I also recall a few years back Malivai Washington's father had a major dispute with the USTA and he basically said it was a racist organization.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 27th, 2007, 10:32 PM
What you said is too ridiculous for it not to be a joke. Someone thinking something doesn't make it a reality.

if you tell someone that they hurt your feelings, and they say no i didn't who's correct?

Apoleb
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:04 PM
:haha:

yet another white person hell bent on telling black folk what to think.

massa, is it ok to look you duh eye?

I'm not white, dumbass. I think 90% of the populace would have more credibility about black people than someone like you, who's clearly a bundle of issues and inferiority complexes.

Mykarma, he said "blacks can't win" in response to Carillo's critcism, so he obviously implied that race was the motivation for her criticism.

saint2
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Maybe I'm just a stupid polish, but I'm intrested in this game for 15 years, and I've never heard about any Mary Carillo :lol: :lol: Who is she and why she deserves so many theards on this board?

canuckfan
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:23 PM
Morrissey, since you're repeating the same shit in every threads, save you some time and use copy-paste instead.

:wavey:

lizchris
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:26 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08272007/sports/it_s_about_time.htm


IT’S ABOUT TIME
RICHARD WILLIAMS: USTA WAITED TOO LONG FOR GIBSON NIGHT
By MARC BERMAN
ALTHEA GIBSON
August 27, 2007 -- Richard Williams’ daughters, Serena and Venus, will play back-to-back first-round matches as a symbolic part of tonight’s 50th anniversary tribute to Althea Gibson winning the U.S. Open.

However, the outspoken Richard Williams ripped the USTA for paying attention to Gibson’s pioneering achievements too late, leaving opening night at Ashe Stadium empty in his eyes.

“I don’t think the USTA thought about Althea when she was alive,” Richard Williams told The Post yesterday. “It doesn’t mean anything. If she meant so much, they would’ve been interested in her when she was alive. It’s very wrong they didn’t do anything for her then. How come a black only becomes a hero after death. I think it’s ludicrous. It doesn’t make up for it.”

Gibson passed away in 2003 at the age of 76, a recluse, dying frail and penniless. In fairness, the USTA tried to get Gibson to attend the Open in 1997 when Venus Williams made history by reaching her first Open final in her debut. Gibson was said to be too embarrassed because of her failing health and appearance. The USTA also reached out in 2002 for her 75th birthday and was rebuffed.

“There were two times we looked to provide Althea with honors, but because of her health concerns, we couldn’t work out such a tribute,” USTA public relations vice president Chris Widmaier said. “Monday night certainly will be memorable.”

Gibson broke the color barrier in tennis, and it has been 10 years since Venus arrived on the scene with her braids and launched to the final. Both Williams sisters credit Gibson as being their inspiration and Richard Williams said he did not speak for his daughters.

Serena and Venus have come as close to dominating women’s tennis this millennium as anyone.


Serena (seeded eighth) and Venus (sixth) have combined to win 14 Grand Slams. CBS lead analyst Mary Carillo seemed off-key last week when she undervalued the Williams’ legacy, feeling they underachieved, saying she thought they’d, “change tennis history.” and “be more insistent about it.”

They still are changing tennis history - the two sisters who grew up playing on the cracked Compton, Calif., courts. Obviously, the Carillo remark didn’t sit well with Richard Williams.

“When she played tennis, she didn’t do nothing,” he said. “She talks a lot.

“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”

Without a formal tennis-teaching background, Richard Williams raised two stars who are as bright and well-rounded off the court as they are fighters on the court.

When Richard Williams took them as young girls to well-known tennis coach Richard Macci, he looked at Venus and said, “You have the next Michael Jordan.” Richard Williams corrected him, saying he had “the next two Michael Jordans.”

The knock on the Williams sisters is they’ve been oft-injured, sometimes lacked enthusiasm and have taken too many layoffs. But they’ve each one a Slam this year, Serena the Australian, Venus Wimbledon.

Seeded eighth, Serena hasn’t played since Wimbledon because of a left-thumb injury. No. 12 Venus has played one tournament since capturing her fourth Wimbledon. And yet they have as good a shot as any of reaching the final in their lopsidedly harsh side of the draw.

“I think there’s a lot of players who can win,” Serena Williams said. “Obviously I want it to be me. I’m thinking it’s going to be me.”

Five of the top six contenders - the Williams sisters, Justine Henin, Serbians Ana Ivanovic and Jelena Jankovic - are on one side of the draw, with Maria Sharapova on the other.

marc.berman@nypost.com


So damn true.

Thank you Richard!!!:worship: :worship: :worship:

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:33 PM
mykarma- I did suggest that perhaps the Williams did financially assist Althea even though they had no real obligation to do so, and I do agree with Richard that the USTA should have done more for her when she was alive. I do, however, resent the notiion that anyone who says anything that isn^t adoring or in any way critical of the Sisters is a racist. I, at times, disagree and find Mary annoying but that does not necessarily make her mean spirited or a racist.
You mentioned the Williams sisters as though they had an obligation to take care of Althea or they need to shut the hell up. I'd also like for you to show me where Richard said anything about Carillo being a racist. I can't say she's a racist but I can absolutely without a doubt said that she's mean spirited.

mykarma
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:48 PM
I'm not white, dumbass. I think 90% of the populace would have more credibility about black people than someone like you, who's clearly a bundle of issues and inferiority complexes.

Mykarma, he said "blacks can't win" in response to Carillo's critcism, so he obviously implied that race was the motivation for her criticism.
Obvious to you but not to me. Richard Williams spoke the truth and that's it. You can think what ever you want to but Richard says it as he sees it.

“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.”

Apoleb
Aug 27th, 2007, 11:49 PM
Obvious to you but not to me.

It's obvious to anyone who isn't willfully refusing to see it, and ofcourse you could chose to do that.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:02 AM
“I don’t think the USTA thought about Althea when she was alive,” Richard Williams told The Post yesterday. “It doesn’t mean anything. If she meant so much, they would’ve been interested in her when she was alive. It’s very wrong they didn’t do anything for her then. How come a black only becomes a hero after death. I think it’s ludicrous. It doesn’t make up for it.”

Gibson passed away in 2003 at the age of 76, a recluse, dying frail and penniless. In fairness, the USTA tried to get Gibson to attend the Open in 1997 when Venus Williams made history by reaching her first Open final in her debut. Gibson was said to be too embarrassed because of her failing health and appearance. The USTA also reached out in 2002 for her 75th birthday and was rebuffed.

“There were two times we looked to provide Althea with honors, but because of her health concerns, we couldn’t work out such a tribute,” USTA public relations vice president Chris Widmaier said. “Monday night certainly will be memorable.”
Richard may have spoken too soon. I'm glad someone from the USTA cleared that up. Billie Jean King was about the only one from the USTA that Althea trusted, with the exception of American Alice Marble in 1950, that wrote an article in American Lawn Tennis magazine, noting that Althea was not able to participate in the better-known championships, for no reason other than "bigotry."

http://www.usta.com/img/mediaworld/img_13_3048.gif
Althea Gibson with friend, Alice Marble
“It doesn’t mean a hill of beans. Their record speaks for itself. Serena and Venus have done more than anyone for women’s tennis than any tennis academy, tennis club, more than the USTA, more than anyone in the history of the sport. What do you expect for them to do? When they were in the finals, they said it was boring. Blacks can’t win even when they win.” [/B]
Richard is historically inaccurate. Billie Jean King, Arthur Ashe and Althea Gibson did more to change the sport of tennis than anyone in my opinion.

I think Richard Williams has been a great coach, father and supporter of his daughters. He and Oracene have done a tremendous job raising all their children. But, ever since his "white turkey" comment, I don't find Richard Williams to be the most credible race relations expert.

mykarma
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:04 AM
It's obvious to anyone who isn't willfully refusing to see it, and ofcourse you could chose to do that.
How dare me have an opinion that differs from you and the others that are putting words in Richard's mouth. :lol:

RenaSlam.
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:07 AM
Once again, Carillo can't even step to Richard Williams.

She ain't shit!

No Name Face
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:09 AM
I think he's about 75% right overall. As much as V&S have done for the sport, they haven't done the most for it. I would put them both in the top 5, probably more after they retire.

stickwitju(ju)
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:24 AM
I think he's about 75% right overall. As much as V&S have done for the sport, they haven't done the most for it. I would put them both in the top 5, probably more after they retire.

They haven't done the most for tennis but for peeps that are just 25 and 27 they have done a fucking lot. When I entered the grounds of the tennis centre for AA Kids Day last Sat I couldn't believe all that black folks I saw! I'm 26 now and have been going out to Flushing Meadow since '94 and my my my has it changed. Back then it still had the country club vibe and the only Afr-Amer's you saw worked as cooks and cashiers. Thanks largely to V & S the floodgates have opened... :rocker:

NON-TENNIS: Did y'all see Keke Palmer & Sammie do the damn thing on the Hess Pump It Stage? Those kids were all smiles, braces and all, leanin' back and shit. :rocker2:

baleineau
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:37 AM
if they invited her but she didn't want to attend.......
anyway I think venus and serena have done more for African American tennis that either Gibson or Ashe, although they too made a big contribution.

guyinsf
Aug 28th, 2007, 03:29 AM
"When she played tennis, she didn’t do nothing,” he said. “She talks a lot." Richard Williams on Mary Carillo

Why did Serena and her dad make it a personal thing with Carillo? His statement just sounds like a more ghetto version of Serena's response to Carillo's criticism to me. I wish they were classier in their response. Richard is as he always is but I was disappointed in Serena's reply because she had been classier before. Address the issue at hand, don't bring out Mary as a player because that's not the issue here. Challenge Carillo on what she said, when you make it personal it comes across as vindictive and spiteful. Mary talks a lot because that's her job.

darrinbaker00
Aug 28th, 2007, 03:52 AM
if they invited her but she didn't want to attend.......
anyway I think venus and serena have done more for African American tennis that either Gibson or Ashe, although they too made a big contribution.
If it wasn't for Miss Althea, Every other African American tennis player would have had to find another profession. Don't EVER forget that.

darrinbaker00
Aug 28th, 2007, 04:14 AM
Richard may have spoken too soon. I'm glad someone from the USTA cleared that up. Billie Jean King was about the only one from the USTA that Althea trusted, with the exception of American Alice Marble in 1950, that wrote an article in American Lawn Tennis magazine, noting that Althea was not able to participate in the better-known championships, for no reason other than "bigotry."

http://www.usta.com/img/mediaworld/img_13_3048.gif
Althea Gibson with friend, Alice Marble
That's not true, my friend. Angela Buxton, a Jewish player from London, played doubles with Miss Althea when no one else would (of course, none of the WASPs wanted to play with Buxton, either), and she let Miss Althea stay with her during Wimbledon. It was also Buxton, along with Billie Jean King, who almost literally passed a hat around the tennis community so Miss Althea could pay her rent. If you can find it, read a book called "The Match" by Bruce Schoenfeld; it chronicles the Gibson-Buxton friendship.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 28th, 2007, 05:25 AM
That's not true, my friend. Angela Buxton, a Jewish player from London, played doubles with Miss Althea when no one else would (of course, none of the WASPs wanted to play with Buxton, either), and she let Miss Althea stay with her during Wimbledon. It was also Buxton, along with Billie Jean King, who almost literally passed a hat around the tennis community so Miss Althea could pay her rent. If you can find it, read a book called "The Match" by Bruce Schoenfeld; it chronicles the Gibson-Buxton friendship.

I don't dispute your assetion about Angela because it is historically accurate. Thanks for the lead on "The Match"

I think you failed to understand the context of my previous posted article. I specifically singled out the USTA (US Players), which would have obviously excluded Angela Buxton from Great Britain. That is the only reason why she wasn't mentioned. It was not my intent to diminish the role Angela Buxton played in Althea's life.

darrinbaker00
Aug 28th, 2007, 05:33 AM
I don't dispute your assetion about Angela because it is historically accurate. Thanks for the lead on "The Match"

I think you failed to understand the context of my previous posted article. I specifically singled out the USTA (US Players), which would have obviously excluded Angela Buxton from Great Britain. That is the only reason why she wasn't mentioned. It was not my intent to diminish the role Angela Buxton played in Althea's life.
Actually, I realized it right after I hit the "Submit Reply" button. I apologize if I made it seem like you didn't know about Ms. Buxton (who's alive, well and still living in London, by the way).

Serenita
Aug 28th, 2007, 05:44 AM
Richard told the truth !! and about the Jehovah thing, please put a lit on it! The woman is dead, she ain't gonna know what the USTA did for her! after 1115000 something years, and it's very embarrassing what carrilo said about serena. the bitch needs to get check. Some people just forget that serena/venus are real champions, they need TO show some F-ing respect, the facts are that they won so many grandslams!! did the Belgium's did ? the russians? NO! Serena and Venus did it. Give the respect that they deserve. So quit bitching about the sisters, Because, THEY FUCKING CHANGE HISTORY!!!

servenrichie
Aug 28th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Like daughter, like father. :o
You have been midly irritating, but lately you are becoming an albatross. Get yourself some help:o

iWill
Aug 28th, 2007, 07:28 AM
I agree with that, he prob had to go through a lot of shit, no doubt about it!
but what i dislike about his comments is that it sounds like it s still the 50s and nothing has changed, while his daughters (and himself) make tons of money OFF COURT being accepted and apreciated etc...So this whole generalization "blacks can't win.." isn't right imo espcially considering their stardom!

I totally agree with that statment but unless you lived in that time and went through what he possibly went through its easy to judge him and say things like "things have changed" and "its different now" but it doesnt matter to them all they know is what happened to them and Venus and Serena could be the spokeswomen for every tennis product and his mind wouldnt change accept it and move on people he comes from a time in the US that things were exactly how he is saying them

and the fact that his daughters make money now is good but i'm sure if you talked to him or someone that grew up the way he did they'd prolly tell u that their recognition is WELL over-due and IMO they still don't get what they deserve being the top 2 american women right now

I also think Richard is right for giving them crap about complaining about Vee and Reena not playing as much cuz when they were playing and meeting in finals tennis was boring and nothing exciting to watch NOW they want them to fully commit and be completely dedicated I'm still waiting for both of them to tell them all where they can shove all those comments

DA FOREHAND
Aug 28th, 2007, 12:33 PM
I totally agree with that statment but unless you lived in that time and went through what he possibly went through its easy to judge him and say things like "things have changed" and "its different now" but it doesnt matter to them all they know is what happened to them and Venus and Serena could be the spokeswomen for every tennis product and his mind wouldnt change accept it and move on people he comes from a time in the US that things were exactly how he is saying them

and the fact that his daughters make money now is good but i'm sure if you talked to him or someone that grew up the way he did they'd prolly tell u that their recognition is WELL over-due and IMO they still don't get what they deserve being the top 2 american women right now

I also think Richard is right for giving them crap about complaining about Vee and Reena not playing as much cuz when they were playing and meeting in finals tennis was boring and nothing exciting to watch NOW they want them to fully commit and be completely dedicated I'm still waiting for both of them to tell them all where they can shove all those comments


Katrina took the US, back quite a few steps as far as change goes. People trying to walk across a bridge to an unaffected area were denied at gunpoint! IN the F'kn United States!!! Not terrorist, not felons, regular everyday American citizens. Imagine how those people must have felt.

Don't get me started on the diff. of being labelled a looter, -v- someone searching for food!:tape: